marniewon 01:02 PM 11-16-2010
How is it that little boys instinctively "shoot guns"?? We don't have toy guns here, obviously, but these little guys will use anything (puzzle pieces, farm animals, etc) and "shoot" things/people. How does everyone deal with this? We don't allow gun play here, but nothing I say (over and over and over) is getting through!
Live and Learn 01:20 PM 11-16-2010
Say "so sad too bad" take the toy away for the day and say we do not shoot here. End of story. if you do this consistently the other children might help "police" the perp so that the toy isn't put in time out. I only use time out for biting hitting and the like but I put toys in timeout if they are misused
!!!
marniewon 02:06 PM 11-16-2010
What if ALL the toys get taken away? Not hypothetical - it's actually happened here!! I felt really bad for the ones who didn't "lose" the toys, and gave them all back to those kids when the offending party was napping/went home!
kidkair 02:16 PM 11-16-2010
Do you have two rooms? I'd send the offenders into a toy free room with some music and let them dance or sing without toys and if they go 10 minutes without making gun noises or using their fingers as weapons then I would give them each one toy. As soon as it became a gun I would take it away and wait 10 minutes without guns again and then try another toy for each. Any time they make it 10 minutes without guns I'd give them another toy and each time any toy became a gun I would take that toy away and restart the 10 minutes. Using a timer might help out.
Blackcat31 02:44 PM 11-16-2010
I do NOT buy toy guns or encourage gun play, however, no matter how hard you try they will make guns out of ANYTHING. period. I think it is probably more important to talk with the kids about gun safety and the importance of what we can and can not shoot. In some areas hunting is ritual passed down from generation to generation and try as we might there will always be the little one who dreams of owning a gun like daddy or grandpa or who ever. I think the discussions we have with the children about safety and proper use are far more important than banning guns all together. I think by banning them, we are choosing to ignore the elephant in the room. If we start teaching them young the rules of safety and what we can and can not do with guns, it will be far more developmentally appropriate than just saying NO GUNS. Talks should include what to do if we are at someones house and see a gun that is not in a locked case or cabinet, and what things and when we are allowed to shoot. I am not a gun advocate and my DH is not a hunter , but I think taking a pro-active approach to guns and safety is the only way to really deal with it. They are going to play with guns...no matter what. We can say no and tell parents we don't allow it, but they are doing it anyways. Just my opinion.
misol 02:53 PM 11-16-2010
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I do NOT buy toy guns or encourage gun play, however, no matter how hard you try they will make guns out of ANYTHING. period. I think it is probably more important to talk with the kids about gun safety and the importance of what we can and can not shoot. In some areas hunting is ritual passed down from generation to generation and try as we might there will always be the little one who dreams of owning a gun like daddy or grandpa or who ever. I think the discussions we have with the children about safety and proper use are far more important than banning guns all together. I think by banning them, we are choosing to ignore the elephant in the room. If we start teaching them young the rules of safety and what we can and can not do with guns, it will be far more developmentally appropriate than just saying NO GUNS. Talks should include what to do if we are at someones house and see a gun that is not in a locked case or cabinet, and what things and when we are allowed to shoot. I am not a gun advocate and my DH is not a hunter , but I think taking a pro-active approach to guns and safety is the only way to really deal with it. They are going to play with guns...no matter what. We can say no and tell parents we don't allow it, but they are doing it anyways. Just my opinion.
Black cat I will agree with you. I do my best to discourage gun play (which is next to impossible) but I have had discussions with the children about guns as they relate to hunting.
Live and Learn 03:35 PM 11-16-2010
Some of the boys I've had here make everything into guns, including biting their sandwiches and crackers into gun-like shapes! One of the boys has a father who hunts, another has a father who is a police officer and guns are just part of their world. I don't like it, I don't encourage it, but I would be fighting a losing battle trying to banish it. So we have no guns at the table, no gun-playing with someone who doesn't want to be a part of it, rules I can reasonably enforce in my home. In my mind, it is similar to rough & tumble play, appropriate with certain rules.
marniewon 03:52 PM 11-16-2010
nannyde 05:06 PM 11-16-2010
Originally Posted by marniewon:
How is it that little boys instinctively "shoot guns"?? We don't have toy guns here, obviously, but these little guys will use anything (puzzle pieces, farm animals, etc) and "shoot" things/people. How does everyone deal with this? We don't allow gun play here, but nothing I say (over and over and over) is getting through!
I don't allow any gun play at all. If they turn a toy into guns they get only rags to play with. Can't make a gun out of a rag.
SilverSabre25 05:17 PM 11-16-2010
Gun play is just part of life, whether we like it or not. When I was at University studying Child Development and Education, we learned about one (I want to say she was a Child psychologist/ Developmental expert/teacher/something along those lines) person who felt VERY VERY strongly about things like gender roles and gun play and violence--she basically did an experiment on her own child and allowed NO exposure, ZERO exposure to any kind of gun play, any kind of violence, and any kind of gender stereotyping.
One day when he was about 3 or 4, out of nowhere he picked up a simple toy block, pointed it at her, and said, "Bang! You're dead!"
She was dismayed, absolutely heartbroken...but drew the conclusion that these kinds of things just cannot be stopped, cannot be erased, cannot be prevented--they are hard-wired into our brains somewhere.
Gun play can be discouraged, but it is actually a developmentally normal and developmentally appropriate thing for children to end up interested in--just as children shouldn't be punished for developmentally normal toileting accidents (for one example), children should NOT be punished for developmentally normal experimentation of guns/gun play/good guy-bad guy archetype exploration--which is what most gun play comes down to. Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians, Luke and Darth Vader...these all boil down to perfectly normal experimentation with those roles, with those archetypes. Whether the weapon of choice is bows and arrows, guns, swords, or lightsabres, all kids do it.
The best thing to do is allow it--within certain boundaries and limitations. Outside only, you can only use "pretend" weapons (i.e. your hand as a gun or an invisible sword), you may NOT pretend to shoot/stab/etc someone who doesn't want to play or expresses discomfort with it. I would avoid mandating that all the "bad guys" have to be pretend bad guys because that takes away the exploration of a bad guy role--but mandating that all participants have to be okay with the role they're playing is perfectly acceptable. If everyone wants to be cops, then they need to shoot invisible bad guys. End of story. Chances are that won't happen, though. Children have an innate need to explore the good guy AND the bad guy roles, and they do.
It can be VERY hard for adults to watch children learning to navigate these roles and pretend to shoot people/animals. But if you understand the developmental need that this play is fulfilling, it might make it easier. Children have been playing with pretend weapons for as long as there have been real weapons--just as children have been playing with pretend babies for as long as there have been real babies. It's just what happens.
One final thought--as with so many things with children, if you outright disallow and forbid something (such as gun play) you lose ALL control over it and it will almost certainly happen anyway, anytime, especially if you aren't there for a short time (bathroom, diaper change, getting lunch, answering the door, etc). When you ALLOW it, you gain the power to put limits and restrictions on it and then enforce them. So long as you make sure that YOU respect your OWN limitations and when they're outside (or whatever) they are freely allowed to play good guy/bad guy without your interference (unless they are violating another of your limitations), then they WILL learn to respect the limits. And everyone will be happier for it.
marniewon 05:33 PM 11-16-2010
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Gun play is just part of life, whether we like it or not. When I was at University studying Child Development and Education, we learned about one (I want to say she was a Child psychologist/ Developmental expert/teacher/something along those lines) person who felt VERY VERY strongly about things like gender roles and gun play and violence--she basically did an experiment on her own child and allowed NO exposure, ZERO exposure to any kind of gun play, any kind of violence, and any kind of gender stereotyping.
One day when he was about 3 or 4, out of nowhere he picked up a simple toy block, pointed it at her, and said, "Bang! You're dead!"
She was dismayed, absolutely heartbroken...but drew the conclusion that these kinds of things just cannot be stopped, cannot be erased, cannot be prevented--they are hard-wired into our brains somewhere.
Gun play can be discouraged, but it is actually a developmentally normal and developmentally appropriate thing for children to end up interested in--just as children shouldn't be punished for developmentally normal toileting accidents (for one example), children should NOT be punished for developmentally normal experimentation of guns/gun play/good guy-bad guy archetype exploration--which is what most gun play comes down to. Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians, Luke and Darth Vader...these all boil down to perfectly normal experimentation with those roles, with those archetypes. Whether the weapon of choice is bows and arrows, guns, swords, or lightsabres, all kids do it.
The best thing to do is allow it--within certain boundaries and limitations. Outside only, you can only use "pretend" weapons (i.e. your hand as a gun or an invisible sword), you may NOT pretend to shoot/stab/etc someone who doesn't want to play or expresses discomfort with it. I would avoid mandating that all the "bad guys" have to be pretend bad guys because that takes away the exploration of a bad guy role--but mandating that all participants have to be okay with the role they're playing is perfectly acceptable. If everyone wants to be cops, then they need to shoot invisible bad guys. End of story. Chances are that won't happen, though. Children have an innate need to explore the good guy AND the bad guy roles, and they do.
It can be VERY hard for adults to watch children learning to navigate these roles and pretend to shoot people/animals. But if you understand the developmental need that this play is fulfilling, it might make it easier. Children have been playing with pretend weapons for as long as there have been real weapons--just as children have been playing with pretend babies for as long as there have been real babies. It's just what happens.
One final thought--as with so many things with children, if you outright disallow and forbid something (such as gun play) you lose ALL control over it and it will almost certainly happen anyway, anytime, especially if you aren't there for a short time (bathroom, diaper change, getting lunch, answering the door, etc). When you ALLOW it, you gain the power to put limits and restrictions on it and then enforce them. So long as you make sure that YOU respect your OWN limitations and when they're outside (or whatever) they are freely allowed to play good guy/bad guy without your interference (unless they are violating another of your limitations), then they WILL learn to respect the limits. And everyone will be happier for it.
I would never flame you for giving your opinion
However, in this case, I'm talking about a 2 year old (just turned 2). There is no reasoning or explaining or controlling him. A simple command will have him looking at me with a dumbfounded look on his face and him saying "what?". I think you do have a point with older children, but this one would not even come close to understanding what I'm saying or following my "rules". The other part of that is, I've always heard that you don't ever aim a gun (toy or otherwise) unless you intend to shoot what you are aiming at. My own sons (now 13 and 16) would play with toy guns, and my only rule with them was they were never ever to aim it at any person or animal. They were a lot older than 2, and they understood and could follow my rule.
SilverSabre25 05:45 PM 11-16-2010
Ah, good point, yeah...2's are hard...yeah if you mentioned that at first I totally missed it! I'm surprised at a two year old trying to do so much gun play...but then that probably says a LOT about what he gets exposed to at home. Redirection is probably the best bet at his age. A quick, "nope, we don't do that here. Let's read this book!" and although it probably won't prevent it from happening, at least it will hopefully stop it in that instant.
marniewon 08:52 PM 11-16-2010
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
Ah, good point, yeah...2's are hard...yeah if you mentioned that at first I totally missed it! I'm surprised at a two year old trying to do so much gun play...but then that probably says a LOT about what he gets exposed to at home. Redirection is probably the best bet at his age. A quick, "nope, we don't do that here. Let's read this book!" and although it probably won't prevent it from happening, at least it will hopefully stop it in that instant.
Yeah, from what we understand from older sibling (who is in school now, but came during summer) dcp's pretty much watch whatever when he's around, and dad plays video games. I'm guessing most of the games are the shoot-em-up type games. This kid doesn't do a 'bang-bang' type shooting, but more of a machine gun type shooting. When he does it, I tell him "no shooting" and take the toy away. It works for the moment. I'll just continue to do that. I just think it's interesting what children decide to emulate.
QualiTcare 01:03 AM 11-17-2010
i don't think we should just allow it. as stupid as it is, kindergarteners can get in trouble for "gun talk." the whole zero tolerance thing has been taken to a whole new extreme. you can't play with your friend anymore and say, "i'm gonna shoot you" because then you'll be in the guidance office getting evaluated.
my son's daycare didn't allow any type of gun play and i've never allowed it at home. he doesn't ever talk about guns and knows a toy gun isn't an option and he's a wild, rough little boy. i played with them as a child, but i'm surprised they even sell toy guns these days. it was always harmless play for me, but that was before kids started shooting each other at school and the rules got so strict. if they are going to be going to school, they won't be allowed to play with or talk about guns so it's best to start the zero tolerance ASAP in my opinion because that's what they'll be going by for the next 12-13 years at least.
BentleysBands 03:51 AM 11-17-2010
i never allowed it w/MY first 3 kids but they would pick it up elsewhere , the more i said something the more they would do it. so w/our last child i just ignored what he did unless it was mean kwim, then i woud step in. now hes 6yr and is very into guns because daddy hunts. we taught gun safety which he pretty much doesnt get at this age but when playing w/the other kids and my dck's we just encourage NO pointing at people. shoot 'birds' or 'bugs" or trees but NOT another person. that seemed to help my situation. i feel its a totally normal child behavior.
legomom922 05:07 AM 11-17-2010
No guns allowed here either. I dont allow anything that looks violent, or encourages violent behaviour. My kids are not even allowed to watch wrestling. They are not allowed any shooting games on their playstations, etc.I have sheilded them from any form of violence. Yes they pick things up from other kids and school, however they have been taught it is wrong, and they make good choices and do not want to engage in that type of play. If a 2 yr old is doing it, they are picking it up from somewhere. I do not believe it is hard wired in any childs brain. They get it from somewhere or see it on something. hek even some toddler shows and cartoons are violent! Has anyone seen Toy Story 3?? It was horrible!!!!!! I would not allow anyone to see that movie!!
BentleysBands 05:11 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
No guns allowed here either. I dont allow anything that looks violent, or encourages violent behaviour. My kids are not even allowed to watch wrestling. They are not allowed any shooting games on their playstations, etc.I have sheilded them from any form of violence. Yes they pick things up from other kids and school, however they have been taught it is wrong, and they make good choices and do not want to engage in that type of play. If a 2 yr old is doing it, they are picking it up from somewhere. I do not believe it is hard wired in any childs brain. They get it from somewhere or see it on something. hek even some toddler shows and cartoons are violent! Has anyone seen Toy Story 3?? It was horrible!!!!!! I would not allow anyone to see that movie!!
we LOVE TS3 and so do the dckids!!!
Thats great that you think your kids make good decisions. You might be shocked when they get older because they lived in a bubble when younger.
but to each's own, thats what makes us all great in this world
legomom922 05:15 AM 11-17-2010
My kids are 13 & 14.........They make good decisions now because of HOW they were brought up!
BentleysBands 05:17 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
My kids are 13 & 14.........They make good decisions now because of HOW they were brought up!
Thats Great
Unregistered 05:26 AM 11-17-2010
Really ? Punishing kids for being kids what harm are they doing they are boys for gosh sake thats how little boys play they are rough and tough what do you want them to sit all day and play tea and Daddy come on get a grip and let them be kids.
daysofelijah 05:34 AM 11-17-2010
I agree with Silver Sabre. I think gun play is part of development. As long as it is guided appropriately I don't see anything wrong with it. We follow pretty much the same rules as she laid out. No parent afaik has had a problem with it. I generally have lots of boys of conservative, hunting fathers though too
QualiTcare 05:36 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
No guns allowed here either. I dont allow anything that looks violent, or encourages violent behaviour. My kids are not even allowed to watch wrestling. They are not allowed any shooting games on their playstations, etc.I have sheilded them from any form of violence. Yes they pick things up from other kids and school, however they have been taught it is wrong, and they make good choices and do not want to engage in that type of play. If a 2 yr old is doing it, they are picking it up from somewhere. I do not believe it is hard wired in any childs brain. They get it from somewhere or see it on something. hek even some toddler shows and cartoons are violent! Has anyone seen Toy Story 3?? It was horrible!!!!!! I would not allow anyone to see that movie!!
i agree aside from wrestling. i mean, my son wrestles with his dad and it's really more of a sport than a violent behavior IMO. they don't watch it, but i can't say i would tell them no - i'm not sure.
it's not that i shield my kids, but i'm the one that buys their games and toys, etc. so why would i buy a game that has people shooting each other or a toy gun when i can get something productive, creative, or
educational! they have seen cops with guns on t.v., at their uncle's house in a safe, and in the toy stores - but they know that cops need guns incase someone is trying to hurt another person and they are used for hunting in their uncle's case - but i'll save the conversation i had with them about hunting
all i know is they have no interest in guns, don't ask to play with them, don't pretend to play with them, and they aren't part of our life. that can't be a coincidence.
legomom922 05:39 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Really ? Punishing kids for being kids what harm are they doing they are boys for gosh sake thats how little boys play they are rough and tough what do you want them to sit all day and play tea and Daddy come on get a grip and let them be kids.
It's people like you that will have kids that turn out to think the Columbine shooting was fun...........
Gurdy 06:34 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
It's people like you that will have kids that turn out to think the Columbine shooting was fun...........
That is WAY over the top. How can you seriously say that?? Kids have been playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians etc for centuries. That was a horrible event, but certainly not something that was caused by a child playing pretend guns at preschool age.
daycaremom1 07:03 AM 11-17-2010
I don't think there is anything wrong with playing "guns". And I feel that the bigger deal you make out of taking everything away, them more they are going to want to do it.
As someone else said, cowboys and bank robbers, cops and bad guys has been played for years!! I did when I was little, and I am fine!!
missnikki 07:21 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
One final thought--as with so many things with children, if you outright disallow and forbid something (such as gun play) you lose ALL control over it and it will almost certainly happen anyway, anytime, especially if you aren't there for a short time (bathroom, diaper change, getting lunch, answering the door, etc). When you ALLOW it, you gain the power to put limits and restrictions on it and then enforce them. So long as you make sure that YOU respect your OWN limitations and when they're outside (or whatever) they are freely allowed to play good guy/bad guy without your interference (unless they are violating another of your limitations), then they WILL learn to respect the limits. And everyone will be happier for it.
THIS. This and more this. That is all.
countrymom 07:21 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Really ? Punishing kids for being kids what harm are they doing they are boys for gosh sake thats how little boys play they are rough and tough what do you want them to sit all day and play tea and Daddy come on get a grip and let them be kids.
but when does the boy rough and tumble end, when they start hitting each other, jumping on each other, sitting on each other, pretend shooting each other, the animals, or even myself. Give your head a shake just because they are boys doesn't mean they have to be taught to play rough, act rough and become bullies. I had my 3 yr old tell me that he can't cry because boys don't cry, and thats what his mother told him, is that the type of child you want to develope into an adult.
QualiTcare 07:28 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Gurdy:
That is WAY over the top. How can you seriously say that?? Kids have been playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians etc for centuries. That was a horrible event, but certainly not something that was caused by a child playing pretend guns at preschool age.
that's true - that event and similar events were not caused by children playing pretend with guns. however, since the shootings at columbine, schools have gotten a LOT more strict when kids even make references to guns or shooting due to the fact that shooters had made comments and they were ignored because people thought "they were just playing." before if a kid said to a friend, "i'm gonna shoot you" or a similar phrase (which i used to say all the time) just goofing off - it was no big deal. now, kids can actually get in trouble and be accused of "threatening someone."
i just see nothing positive that can come from kids playing with toy guns or pretending to play - so why do it? yea, i had fun doing it as a kid, but it wasn't a big deal then! now it is. at the same time, i wouldn't have been heartbroken if i wasn't allowed to play with guns from the very first time an adult told me to stop. kids might naturally want to play with guns if they've been exposed to them just like they'll naturally say a cuss word if they've been exposed, but that doesn't mean they should be doing it, and they will stop if someone tells them to stop. that's the problem - people don't tell them to stop because they "see no harm in it." well, if that's the case, why not let them curse too? what's the real harm in that?
Gurdy 08:16 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
that's true - that event and similar events were not caused by children playing pretend with guns. however, since the shootings at columbine, schools have gotten a LOT more strict when kids even make references to guns or shooting due to the fact that shooters had made comments and they were ignored because people thought "they were just playing." before if a kid said to a friend, "i'm gonna shoot you" or a similar phrase (which i used to say all the time) just goofing off - it was no big deal. now, kids can actually get in trouble and be accused of "threatening someone."
i just see nothing positive that can come from kids playing with toy guns or pretending to play - so why do it? yea, i had fun doing it as a kid, but it wasn't a big deal then! now it is. at the same time, i wouldn't have been heartbroken if i wasn't allowed to play with guns from the very first time an adult told me to stop. kids might naturally want to play with guns if they've been exposed to them just like they'll naturally say a cuss word if they've been exposed, but that doesn't mean they should be doing it, and they will stop if someone tells them to stop. that's the problem - people don't tell them to stop because they "see no harm in it." well, if that's the case, why not let them curse too? what's the real harm in that?
Look, I was simply commenting on what a pp said about someone allowing gun play must have "thought the columbine shooting was fun...."
That is an outrageous statement!!
You are right times have changed. Kids do need to be taught that gun play is unacceptable at school, because they do have a zero tolerance policy at schools. Just like they need to be taught that cursing is wrong and they shouldn't do it anywhere.
I do not think that gun play as a preschooler will cause children to grow up and become a mass murderer. If it did we would have alot more mass murderers out there. Playtime is for fun, imagination and role play. Some kids like to role play cops & robbers etc. it does not mean that they will grow up to be serial killers.
In my daycare I do not have any toy guns and I do not encourage gun play. At the moment I have all girls and they never build guns out of legos or use a toy banana as a gun. When I had mostly boys they did those things all the time. I did not allow them to "shoot" each other, but they would build guns and put them in their "holsters" (pockets) and pretend they were cowboys or cops. I have had several dck that were children of police officers and had guns in their homes. It is natural for them to want to emulate dad and carry a "gun" in their "holster". This does not mean that their parents thought that "Columbine was fun".
I allow my kids to run and scream at the park, but not at the store. They understand the difference. Kids who play guns at home should also be taught that they may not do this at school.
AnythingsPossible 08:36 AM 11-17-2010
I am not a fan of gun play, but the boys do it regardless. So when they start up and aim at each other and are shooting each other. I simply tell them that if they are going to shoot something they have to go hunting. There is no shooting at people or aiming at people. Totally agree that if you try to forbid it, it is a losing battle.
So if they want to shoot, go ahead, but it better be at big game or aliens. Not people or pets!!
QualiTcare 08:40 AM 11-17-2010
"
that's true - that event and similar events were not caused by children playing pretend with guns."
i was agreeing with that point.
Gurdy 09:18 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
"that's true - that event and similar events were not caused by children playing pretend with guns."
i was agreeing with that point.
I was not commenting on just that one line in your statement.
Do you not see the positive in a child emulating his father??
Can you not see the positive in teaching kids that there are times and places for certain behavoirs?
Unregistered 10:53 AM 11-17-2010
I don't have toy guns at my house at all. No toy weapons of any kind. In fact, I don't even allow the kids to use their finger as a gun or any other toy as a gun. I've been given a hard time for my stance in the past, but I stand by my policy. There's enough ugliness in the world as it is and I don't want to let it seep into my house. This is a peaceful place
I'm all for dramatic play, in fact, I love it! I just prefer to have it not include "shooting" each other or any other violent activity.
DCMomOf3 11:07 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't have toy guns at my house at all. No toy weapons of any kind. In fact, I don't even allow the kids to use their finger as a gun or any other toy as a gun. I've been given a hard time for my stance in the past, but I stand by my policy. There's enough ugliness in the world as it is and I don't want to let it seep into my house. This is a peaceful place I'm all for dramatic play, in fact, I love it! I just prefer to have it not include "shooting" each other or any other violent activity.
I dont' have any in my daycare space for this reason. I DO however have a few Star Wars blasters in my DSs' room. They only come out maybe once a month though (non-daycare hours) because it can get out of hand fast if I'm not watching. I DO NOT allow aiming at living things, but they sometimes get carried away.
Blackcat31 11:24 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by WyoDaycareMom:
I am not a fan of gun play, but the boys do it regardless. So when they start up and aim at each other and are shooting each other. I simply tell them that if they are going to shoot something they have to go hunting. There is no shooting at people or aiming at people. Totally agree that if you try to forbid it, it is a losing battle.
So if they want to shoot, go ahead, but it better be at big game or aliens. Not people or pets!!
Exactly what she said! When the gun play and shooting started getting out of hand here, we started modifying the play. You can do it but not at people and not at pets. If you do it, you can't play any more. I swear since then no one cares any more and I hardly notice any gun play. So I agree with pp; banning it just makes seem more fun and almost encourages it...modifying the way they play it made it not so fun.
QualiTcare 11:25 AM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Gurdy:
I was not commenting on just that one line in your statement.
Do you not see the positive in a child emulating his father??
Can you not see the positive in teaching kids that there are times and places for certain behavoirs?
yes, but that line of my statement was agreeing with the fact that playing with guns doesn't cause people to grow up and do school shootings and you still mentioned that it doesn't lead to that or people being serial killers - so i wasn't sure if you realized that i DON'T think that.
my only point is that kids get into lots of trouble for talking about guns these days, so why fuel that fire?
you're taking the big, broad issue of kids playing with guns and putting it into a small box of police officer's children. those two things can't be compared because MOST kids who are playing with guns aren't emulating their fathers. furthermore, cops don't go around shooting people (except in LA - jk). they rarely if EVER use their gun at all. you don't usually see kids pretending to put a gun in their holster and then going about their business. some things parents do shouldn't be copied. i wouldn't let a child play pretend pole dancer because her mother works at a club and say "she's just emulating her mother). there's no positive that can come from that. if anything, a police officer who has guns in the home should have a child MORE aware that guns are nothing to play with.
i can defintely see the positives and the necessity of teaching children when/where things are appropriate, but i don't think guns fit in anywhere into that lesson. kids need to know what's appropriate to talk about at the dinner table, appropriate behavior at a funeral, appropriate reactions when someone is upset - because these are things they'll be faced with normally. hopefully they will not need to know when to use a gun. i don't think there's anything positive that can come from playing with guns, but there IS a negative (and no, that's not shooting places up or killing people) but emulating that PLAY at school where they will be punished. they won't understand why they were allowed to play guns with their friends all day when they were 4, but now that's they're 5 they are being told it's wrong.
it's our job to prepare kids for reality and get them ready to enter the world (their first world being school) and allowing what's not allowed isn't doing anything to HELP prepare them for it so why do it?
legomom922 11:27 AM 11-17-2010
The columbine kids played violent shooting video games..what do you think they did before that? Played with toys guns I bet!
Shooting animals & hunting is not anymore acceptable to me..lets kill!!
Why does anybody have to kill anything? animals, people even if they are in a game??
Ask anyone of those parents who lost a child in that incident and see what their feelings are on playing with guns/videogames, etc....
Blackcat31 11:52 AM 11-17-2010
On Oct 5th 1966, at my high school a young boy shot another 14 yr old classmate and a teacher (who died 8 days later) because he was teased and ridiculed endlessly (like most of the school shooters). The shooter in our town did what he did because he was teased and bullied. He came from a good family who had strong morals and values. They believed in God and were good people. I can't explain why their son did what he did or all the hundreds of things that led up to what he ultimately choose to do. All I know is that people are good and people are bad. In my opinion, I don't agree with all the craziness and violence in video gaming and on TV we see today, but my brothers (and I) grew up playing cops and robbers and all sorts of shooting games. We also learned gun safety at a young age. We come from a family of hunters, we had guns in our house, yet not one of my siblings or I have ever thought to use a gun to shoot someone at school. I just don't see the correlation there. I think the Columbine shooters had other issues and whether they played violent video games or not probably didn't have much impact on the horrible choices they made. Maybe, maybe not, but what about the hundreds of other little kids who grew up playing shooting games...and still not choosing to shoot up their schools. We can ban guns and violent tv and video games but I think we are only fooling ourselves if we think that is the answer to stopping things like the Columbine shootings. Just my opinion.
Gurdy 12:04 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
yes, but that line of my statement was agreeing with the fact that playing with guns doesn't cause people to grow up and do school shootings and you still mentioned that it doesn't lead to that or people being serial killers - so i wasn't sure if you realized that i DON'T think that.
my only point is that kids get into lots of trouble for talking about guns these days, so why fuel that fire?
you're taking the big, broad issue of kids playing with guns and putting it into a small box of police officer's children. those two things can't be compared because MOST kids who are playing with guns aren't emulating their fathers. furthermore, cops don't go around shooting people (except in LA - jk). they rarely if EVER use their gun at all. you don't usually see kids pretending to put a gun in their holster and then going about their business. some things parents do shouldn't be copied. i wouldn't let a child play pretend pole dancer because her mother works at a club and say "she's just emulating her mother). there's no positive that can come from that. if anything, a police officer who has guns in the home should have a child MORE aware that guns are nothing to play with.
i can defintely see the positives and the necessity of teaching children when/where things are appropriate, but i don't think guns fit in anywhere into that lesson. kids need to know what's appropriate to talk about at the dinner table, appropriate behavior at a funeral, appropriate reactions when someone is upset - because these are things they'll be faced with normally. hopefully they will not need to know when to use a gun. i don't think there's anything positive that can come from playing with guns, but there IS a negative (and no, that's not shooting places up or killing people) but emulating that PLAY at school where they will be punished. they won't understand why they were allowed to play guns with their friends all day when they were 4, but now that's they're 5 they are being told it's wrong.
it's our job to prepare kids for reality and get them ready to enter the world (their first world being school) and allowing what's not allowed isn't doing anything to HELP prepare them for it so why do it?
Hey, there are alot of things that kids can do at home that they can not do at school. They understand the difference.
They also have to learn that school is going to be different from daycare and some of the things that they did in dc they can not do at school. Its called growing and adjusting, kids are really good at that. I am not suggesting that you should not tell the kids that they may not play guns at school.
I was using the child emulating his father as an example of how gun play could be positive. He sees his dad leave for work every night in his uniform and with his gun. He sees his dad come home every morning in his uniform and with his gun. This little boy walked around all the time with his lego or banana gun in his holster just like his dad. I did not see anything negative about it. I would have never told him he couldn't have it. I did not let him shoot people with it.
I agree that I would not let a child play pretend pole dancer but I also would not compare the two professions.
In the larger picture, kids have been playing these games for years and years and I would say the vast majority of these kids have turned out just fine with no ill effects from playing this type of role play.
BentleysBands 12:10 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
The columbine kids played violent shooting video games..what do you think they did before that? Played with toys guns I bet!
Shooting animals & hunting is not anymore acceptable to me..lets kill!!
Why does anybody have to kill anything? animals, people even if they are in a game??
Ask anyone of those parents who lost a child in that incident and see what their feelings are on playing with guns/videogames, etc....
hunting vrs playing w/guns as a child r too totally different things IMO
I would love to see your kids in 10yrs and see how perfect they are
just saying..
kidkair 12:10 PM 11-17-2010
The answer to stopping the shootings is stronger communication skills. The kids shooting people because they were teased and ridiculed were not communicating effectively to adults who could help. We need to teach kids to communicate effectively and not hide their feelings from the adults in their lives. Many times bulling goes on behind adult's backs and those being bullied have such low self esteem that it doesn't matter how nice their family is.
My family is very nice and we were church goers and everything but when my brother went to college my mom became depressed and we all started to fall apart. What saved us was that my brother came home for winter break and complained that we had stopped communicating. We were still nice and happy toward the outside world but our inside world lacked communication. We began to remember to communicate when it was pointed out that we had lost that. Now years later we communicate better in our inner world but an outsider may look twice before realizing we are very healthy because from the outside my parents are divorced, my mom remarried, my brother a devout catholic, me a pagan with a pagan husband, my sister undecided in faith and divorced with two kids, my other sister undecided in faith and married, my dad barely making ends meet. We communicate though and that is fundamental.
This thread inspired me to look at the research on gun play and children, and the overwhelming majority of the information indicates that not only is it NOT negative, it has positive play value. Gun play and rough & tumble play have nothing to do with violence. This reinforces my "gut instinct" and I will continue to allow it in my house. People should do what they are comfortable with - your house, your rules.
legomom922 12:19 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Gurdy:
I agree that I would not let a child play pretend pole dancer but I also would not compare the two professions.
In the larger picture, kids have been playing these games for years and years and I would say the vast majority of these kids have turned out just fine with no ill effects from playing this type of role play.
Would you have a problem with your daughter pretending she is hooker? The point is there is NO GOOD that can come from it weather its pretending to be a cop, a pole dancer or a hooker! Maybe people need to take the time to teach their kids GOOD morals. How about teaching your kid to play being a minister? a teacher? a doctor?
And you dont REALLY know how these kids have turned out now have you? Honestly? There is more childhood/teen depression, suicide, drugs, child abuse, teen pregnancy, etc etc now in this country than ever before!
I'm 50 yrs old and and we didnt have these problems 40 yrs ago! I grew up with the Leave It To Beaver shows....now the only thing that is on TV is sex, reality TV flith, crime & murder drama! I dont even have cable because their is nothing on there wholesome and with good values on anymore! Its' obvious to me why the world is now so messed up! Kids dont even have a chance these days and wow has parenting changed.. they are no better than the kids..
QualiTcare 12:22 PM 11-17-2010
"In the larger picture, kids have been playing these games for years and years and I would say the vast majority of these kids have turned out just fine with no ill effects from playing this type of role play."
i agree, and i was one of those kids, BUT i also was allowed to do it on the playground at school and make gun or shooting references without being taken seriously. i don't think playing with them has ill effects (not that it has positive ones) but i do know the actions and conversations that take place as a result can get kids in trouble. i can't think of any reason i would stand in the toy aisle and think "hmm, i think a GUN is a good idea" out of all the toys out there. why get it started?
i used to hug my teachers and sit on their laps and nobody got accused of being a child molester or being molested, but kids can't do that anymore either.
and my dad walked five miles to school, in the snow, up hill both ways....times have changed since we played with guns harmlessly. trust me, i wish i could let my son play cops and robbers with a dart gun or the cool little cap guns like i had without having to worry that he'd be punished for it later. it's just a risk i choose to avoid because it's 100% avoidable. they don't miss what they don't know.
QualiTcare 12:26 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
The columbine kids played violent shooting video games..what do you think they did before that? Played with toys guns I bet!
Shooting animals & hunting is not anymore acceptable to me..lets kill!!
Why does anybody have to kill anything? animals, people even if they are in a game??
Ask anyone of those parents who lost a child in that incident and see what their feelings are on playing with guns/videogames, etc....
i must admit, i've stepped on a few turtles and smacked some rodents with my mario tail in my day
my uncle is a hunter and the first time the kids saw his gun cabinet and were asking about the dead animals i told them how stupid and pointless it was for him to kill animals when he buys his meat from the grocery store - in front of him. hunting is necessary for SOME people, but doing it as a sport is just stupid.
Unregistered 12:34 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
Would you have a problem with your daughter pretending she is hooker? The point is there is NO GOOD that can come from it weather its pretending to be a cop, a pole dancer or a hooker! Maybe people need to take the time to teach their kids GOOD morals. How about teaching your kid to play being a minister? a teacher? a doctor?
And you dont REALLY know how these kids have turned out now have you? Honestly? There is more childhood/teen depression, suicide, drugs, child abuse, teen pregnancy, etc etc now in this country than ever before!
I'm 50 yrs old and and we didnt have these problems 40 yrs ago! I grew up with the Leave It To Beaver shows....now the only thing that is on TV is sex, reality TV flith, crime & murder drama! I dont even have cable because their is nothing on there wholesome and with good values on anymore! Its' obvious to me why the world is now so messed up! Kids dont even have a chance these days and wow has parenting changed.. they are no better than the kids..
I see where you're coming from and I can agree with some of your post, to a point, but I think that a child's moral compass isn't going to be broken by the programming on TV. I also think that whether or not a person has good morals isn't always directly related to the career that they choose or if they are involved in church. Sometimes kids who grow up to be adults who are ministers, doctors and the like have moral compasses that point in the southern direction and the kids who never went to church grow up to be adults who are good people. This doesn't mean that what you said isn't true, it just means that it's possible for people to be good without church and a professional career.
Gurdy 12:36 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
"In the larger picture, kids have been playing these games for years and years and I would say the vast majority of these kids have turned out just fine with no ill effects from playing this type of role play."
i agree, and i was one of those kids, BUT i also was allowed to do it on the playground at school and make gun or shooting references without being taken seriously. i don't think playing with them has ill effects (not that it has positive ones) but i do know the actions and conversations that take place as a result can get kids in trouble. i can't think of any reason i would stand in the toy aisle and think "hmm, i think a GUN is a good idea" out of all the toys out there. why get it started?
i used to hug my teachers and sit on their laps and nobody got accused of being a child molester or being molested, but kids can't do that anymore either.
and my dad walked five miles to school, in the snow, up hill both ways....times have changed since we played with guns harmlessly. trust me, i wish i could let my son play cops and robbers with a dart gun or the cool little cap guns like i had without having to worry that he'd be punished for it later. it's just a risk i choose to avoid because it's 100% avoidable. they don't miss what they don't know.
This is what I do not understand! If you would love to let him play with one of those guns, then let him!!
You can still explain to him that he may not play like that at school. He will understand!! You are the parent-- you can teach your son when and where he can do certain things.
It is not 100% avoidable-- how old is your son? Has he never gone to a friends house that has toy guns?
Blackcat31 12:38 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
I'm 50 yrs old and and we didnt have these problems 40 yrs ago! I grew up with the Leave It To Beaver shows....now the only thing that is on TV is sex, reality TV flith, crime & murder drama! I dont even have cable because their is nothing on there wholesome and with good values on anymore! Its' obvious to me why the world is now so messed up! Kids dont even have a chance these days and wow has parenting changed.. they are no better than the kids..
Notice the dates...they were from 40 years ago
October 10, 1902/Altona School, Manitoba, Canada/ 2 dead
August 1, 1966 /University of Texas /16 dead
February 8, 1968/ SC State/ 3 dead
May 4, 1970/Kent State/ 4 dead
May 14, 1970/Jackson State/ 2 dead
December 30, 1974/Olean H.S./ 3 dead
July 12, 1972/Calif. State University/ 7 dead
May 28, 1975/Centennial Secondary School, Ontario, Canada/ 2 dead
October 27, 1975/St.Pius X H.S. Ottawa, Canada/ 1 dead
I do agree though...parenting has changed. NOT the games kids play.
Gurdy 12:47 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
Would you have a problem with your daughter pretending she is hooker? The point is there is NO GOOD that can come from it weather its pretending to be a cop, a pole dancer or a hooker! Maybe people need to take the time to teach their kids GOOD morals. How about teaching your kid to play being a minister? a teacher? a doctor?
And you dont REALLY know how these kids have turned out now have you? Honestly? There is more childhood/teen depression, suicide, drugs, child abuse, teen pregnancy, etc etc now in this country than ever before!
I'm 50 yrs old and and we didnt have these problems 40 yrs ago! I grew up with the Leave It To Beaver shows....now the only thing that is on TV is sex, reality TV flith, crime & murder drama! I dont even have cable because their is nothing on there wholesome and with good values on anymore! Its' obvious to me why the world is now so messed up! Kids dont even have a chance these days and wow has parenting changed.. they are no better than the kids..
Maybe you misunderstood- I said I would NOT allow a child to play pretend pole dancer.
I think it is disgusting that you would compare hookers and pole dancers to police officers.
Children have been playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians for centuries not just the last 40 years.
QualiTcare 01:01 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Gurdy:
This is what I do not understand! If you would love to let him play with one of those guns, then let him!!
You can still explain to him that he may not play like that at school. He will understand!! You are the parent-- you can teach your son when and where he can do certain things.
It is not 100% avoidable-- how old is your son? Has he never gone to a friends house that has toy guns?
when i say i would love for him to be able to without having to worry about being punished - i really mean i wish there was no reason to be concerned...not really that he's missing out by not having guns.
he's almost 5. he hasn't been to a friend's house where there were toy guns, but he also hasn't stayed at a friend's house without me. he's stayed with family members who have no kids. but if i was at a friend's house and there were toy guns, he wouldn't play with them. i'd also have no problem at all telling him NO that he's not allowed in front of the parent of the child with the guns. i don't think people are BAD for letting kids do it. i just think
IF there were any consequences at all, they could ONLY be negative so there's no point. he's asked for a gun before at the toy store when he was younger (of course he's asked for every toy) and i told him NO and he wasn't allowed to play with guns. that's about as big of a part guns have been in his life. he doesn't even glance twice at them or talk about them. it's simple.
Luna - as far as the research about guns, i've been saying i don't think gun play causes kids to kill. BUT i wonder what the facts say about kids who get ahold of guns and have accidental shootings. do they think they are toys? i know that has happened bc i've seen it in the news.
that's another reason i don't allow guns. it's easier to say DONT TOUCH A GUN EVER than to try to talk about "gun safety" and how you know if it's real and what to do if you see a gun, etc. kind of like lighters or matches - it's not, "you can only pick up a lighter if you find it on the ground so you can bring it to me." it's - dont EVER touch lighters. there's just not one positive thing that can come from playing with fire, or guns.
SilverSabre25 01:04 PM 11-17-2010
Preventing gun play will not prevent school shootings.
Several of you have already said it on this thread--"the school shootings were committed by kids who had been teased and ridiculed and bullied" Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it.
To stop school shootings, we need to STOP bullying and teasing, LISTEN to the kids who are being bullied and teased and not brush them off with a "grow up and learn to deal with it" (which is what I heard so, so often when I was the bullied/teased kid), DEAL WITH the kids who are doing the bullying and teasing, and do a better job of teaching TOLERANCE and RESPECT. We need to teach tolerance and problem-solving skills. We need teachers who are going to not tell the bullied child "just ignore it" or "stop tattling"--and instead address the child doing the bullying and take care of the problem. My DH and I were both teased so cruelly as kids, telling teachers who did NOTHING to stop it until WE were so fed up that WE retaliated in SELF-DEFENSE, and WE got in trouble--not the kids that teased until we couldn't take it anymore--and when we were asked "but why did you do that?" and we explained "because so-and-so was teasing me", we were told "you should have told a teacher"...all while we're screaming inside our heads, but I tried and you wouldn't listen.
Gun play doesn't have anything to do with tolerance. With respect. With bullying and teasing and adults who don't listen to children.
Crystal 01:12 PM 11-17-2010
BULLIES. THEY are the reason for MOST of the school shootings and violence in recent years.
Gun play IS inevitable......YOU may not think YOUR child has ever done it, but bet you 10 to one when your child has visited a male playmate, he has participated in gun play. Does your child not partake in Superhero play? Where did he learn about superheroes if not on tv? He just DID.....I can almost guarantee that pretend gunplay takes place on every single elementary campus in the world on a daily basis....YES, there is a "zero tolerance" policy, but I can guarantee you that only one in fifty ADULTS would report a preschooler or kindergarter picking up a toy and saying "bang, you're dead" It's the ONE ADULT that is overreacting to child's play.....the other 49 adults shrug it off as normal, and may choose to observe the child's play a little more closely to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand. I tell ya, if every single child was doled out consequences for playing cops and robbers at school, we'd have less than half of the prek and kindy student body that we do now, AND a whole lot of burdens to society, because if they can't be in school, then where will they be?
I think ADULTS are the ones who have turned gun play into more than it is.....if you look at the violent felons out there, they didn't partake in simple gunplay....they generally were raised in a violent environment that led them to be criminals.
Crystal 01:17 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
Would you have a problem with your daughter pretending she is hooker? The point is there is NO GOOD that can come from it weather its pretending to be a cop, a pole dancer or a hooker! Maybe people need to take the time to teach their kids GOOD morals. How about teaching your kid to play being a minister? a teacher? a doctor?
Wow, what an utterly ridiculous statement. Honestly, do you really see any comparison between pretending to be a COP or a HOOKER? Do your children not participate in dramatic play and pretend to be police officers, firefighters, etc.?
Of course I suppose if a child's daddy is taking her around hookers she might see them as a good thing and pretend to be one, but, hmmmm.....what EXACTLY would she pretend? I hope and pray no one would expose their child to a hooker so much (read: not at all) that they know WHAT they do. On the other hand, I have taken preschoolers to meet police officers and firefighters and have taught them about all of the GOOD things they do....maybe they'll be inspired and become one themselves someday. A hooker, well I would certainly hope not.
Oh, and a minister? hahahaha! They are not all good either...........
daysofelijah 01:28 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by :
Originally Posted by legomom922 View Post
Would you have a problem with your daughter pretending she is hooker? The point is there is NO GOOD that can come from it weather its pretending to be a cop, a pole dancer or a hooker! Maybe people need to take the time to teach their kids GOOD morals. How about teaching your kid to play being a minister? a teacher? a doctor?
I am sure my police officer brother would appreciate you comparing his job to that of a pole dancer or hooker. Wth is wrong with you? Glad to hear how much respect you have for those who serve your community daily. I'm sure your dcparents would really appreciate hearing about that.
eta: Oh and my husband takes my boys to wrestling practice and tournaments 2-3 days a week. Crazy! Crazy the horrible way we are parenting these kids these days!
QualiTcare 02:38 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Crystal:
BULLIES. THEY are the reason for MOST of the school shootings and violence in recent years.
Gun play IS inevitable......YOU may not think YOUR child has ever done it, but bet you 10 to one when your child has visited a male playmate, he has participated in gun play. Does your child not partake in Superhero play? Where did he learn about superheroes if not on tv? He just DID.....I can almost guarantee that pretend gunplay takes place on every single elementary campus in the world on a daily basis....YES, there is a "zero tolerance" policy, but I can guarantee you that only one in fifty ADULTS would report a preschooler or kindergarter picking up a toy and saying "bang, you're dead" It's the ONE ADULT that is overreacting to child's play.....the other 49 adults shrug it off as normal, and may choose to observe the child's play a little more closely to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand. I tell ya, if every single child was doled out consequences for playing cops and robbers at school, we'd have less than half of the prek and kindy student body that we do now, AND a whole lot of burdens to society, because if they can't be in school, then where will they be?
I think ADULTS are the ones who have turned gun play into more than it is.....if you look at the violent felons out there, they didn't partake in simple gunplay....they generally were raised in a violent environment that led them to be criminals.
my son doesn't go to friend's houses without me. he hasn't had a toy gun here. when he went to daycare they didn't allow gun play. how would it be inevitable? boys aren't born with a desire to play with guns. i'm sure if my son were given the opportunity to play pretend with other boys then he would join in - i'm not that naive. but why would anyone buy toy guns or encourage gun play? there is NOTHING positive that can come from it - nothing. he does pretend to be a spy and a ninja. half of the household in america don't have ninja weapons that kids can get ahold of.
i guarantee that i was lucky enough to encounter one of those fifty crazy people who would make a big deal about a kid talking about guns. a 4 year old GIRL - my girl repeated what a boy told her to say about "shooting" people and the daycare director made a huge deal about it. i've mentioned it here before and that has zero to do with what i think bc i've never allowed gun play. the words gun and play do not go together. people have been killed when their toy guns were mistaken for real guns. kids have been killed mistaking real guns for toy guns. a woman in my town was arrested and charged with assault for "playing guns" with kids in her child's kindergarten class. i don't think gun play causes people to kill or anything like that, but i think there are only negative things that can come from kids associating with guns. what is one GOOD thing that can happen? if there's no good, what's the point?
it's funny - people worry more about boys playing with baby dolls than they worry about guns. people here always say "oh yeah, it's okay for boys to play with dolls" but i bet more have bought toy guns for their boys than dolls. i wonder how many people buy guns for their girls? it's twisted.
Live and Learn 02:58 PM 11-17-2010
I agree with quality care here. No good will come of playing with guns in daycare. Period. Not appropriate play in my house. I have to say though...it NEVER COMES UP HERE.......EVER!!!
Crystal 03:08 PM 11-17-2010
QualiTcare...I didn't mean "you" when I posted....it was a general "you"
But, let's talk about ninja play. Sure, half the homes don't have ninja weapons, and I imagine close to half don't have toy guns. But the children still "pretend" to have them, don't they? I have kids who use paper towel tubes as swords....same to me as calling it a gun. Just as deadly, in the wrong hands, if it were a real sword or gun.
Now, FTR, I don't do gun play in my home either. BUT, I also DON'T make a big deal of it if the kids pick up a paper towel tube, or put some legos together and call it a gun. I actually make no comment at all....if I ever saw a child using it to "kill" a friend, then I would step in. I do have three families with dad's who hunt....and those are the children I generally see it with....and they never point their "guns" at their freinds, they are always hunting, and their friends do it too. We have in the past discussed this play because there are children who have never heard of hunting and don't know anything about it, so when they heard it from a peer, it became a topic for discussion. I, of course, expressed my disdain for killing animals for sport, BUT my dck dad's don't hunt for sport, they actually eat their game.
Anyhow....like I said, I think the adults are the ones with the over-exaggerated issue. Just as anything else in life, teach them what is and is not appropriate and when it is and is not appropriate, and they'll turn out just fine.
Gurdy 03:36 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
my son doesn't go to friend's houses without me. he hasn't had a toy gun here. when he went to daycare they didn't allow gun play. how would it be inevitable? boys aren't born with a desire to play with guns. i'm sure if my son were given the opportunity to play pretend with other boys then he would join in - i'm not that naive. but why would anyone buy toy guns or encourage gun play? there is NOTHING positive that can come from it - nothing. he does pretend to be a spy and a ninja. half of the household in america don't have ninja weapons that kids can get ahold of.
i guarantee that i was lucky enough to encounter one of those fifty crazy people who would make a big deal about a kid talking about guns. a 4 year old GIRL - my girl repeated what a boy told her to say about "shooting" people and the daycare director made a huge deal about it. i've mentioned it here before and that has zero to do with what i think bc i've never allowed gun play. the words gun and play do not go together. people have been killed when their toy guns were mistaken for real guns. kids have been killed mistaking real guns for toy guns. a woman in my town was arrested and charged with assault for "playing guns" with kids in her child's kindergarten class. i don't think gun play causes people to kill or anything like that, but i think there are only negative things that can come from kids associating with guns. what is one GOOD thing that can happen? if there's no good, what's the point?
it's funny - people worry more about boys playing with baby dolls than they worry about guns. people here always say "oh yeah, it's okay for boys to play with dolls" but i bet more have bought toy guns for their boys than dolls. i wonder how many people buy guns for their girls? it's twisted.
Ok-- there is a huge difference between toy guns and a real gun. I think that you do not give kids enough credit. They can understand this.
My daughters have a play kitchen. They cook in it all the time. They know that they are not permitted to use the real stove or oven.
My kids have toy drills and power tools- they know that they can not hurt themselves with these toys. They also know that they are not to play with their dad's real power tools.
Gun accidents have nothing to do with kids playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians. In fact if a child has never touched or played with a toy gun then they really may not know the difference if they were to find a real one.
Boys do play differently than girls, that is a fact. If I gave the boys dolls to play with they would be using the doll or the dolls bottle as a gun. Most girls just naturally dont play like that. Maybe the good that can come out of gun play is the same as any dramatic play. Kids figure things out and learn by playing.
QualiTcare 03:47 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Gurdy:
Ok-- there is a huge difference between toy guns and a real gun. I think that you do not give kids enough credit. They can understand this.
My daughters have a play kitchen. They cook in it all the time. They know that they are not permitted to use the real stove or oven.
My kids have toy drills and power tools- they know that they can not hurt themselves with these toys. They also know that they are not to play with their dad's real power tools.
Gun accidents have nothing to do with kids playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians. In fact if a child has never touched or played with a toy gun then they really may not know the difference if they were to find a real one.
Boys do play differently than girls, that is a fact. If I gave the boys dolls to play with they would be using the doll or the dolls bottle as a gun. Most girls just naturally dont play like that. Maybe the good that can come out of gun play is the same as any dramatic play. Kids figure things out and learn by playing.
there IS a huge difference, but kids can't understand this. many adults can't tell the difference. skim through this site and scroll to the bottom where there's a pic of some guns.
http://www.irol.com/avc/fact_sheet_about_toy_guns.html
if grown men who have a gun on their hip every day can't distinguish, i don't trust little kids to be able to.....and when tested, it's proven that they can't.
Unregistered 04:23 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
It's people like you that will have kids that turn out to think the Columbine shooting was fun...........
Its people like YOU who have their kids live in a little bubble and then get older and do the things behind your back sweetie. Yup my kids have nerf guns play war games outside with the neighborhood kids so I guess they all are gonna get together and shoot up people LOL you are ignorant.
Unregistered 04:29 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by blackcat31:
on oct 5th 1966, at my high school a young boy shot another 14 yr old classmate and a teacher (who died 8 days later) because he was teased and ridiculed endlessly (like most of the school shooters). The shooter in our town did what he did because he was teased and bullied. He came from a good family who had strong morals and values. They believed in god and were good people. I can't explain why their son did what he did or all the hundreds of things that led up to what he ultimately choose to do. All i know is that people are good and people are bad. In my opinion, i don't agree with all the craziness and violence in video gaming and on tv we see today, but my brothers (and i) grew up playing cops and robbers and all sorts of shooting games. We also learned gun safety at a young age. We come from a family of hunters, we had guns in our house, yet not one of my siblings or i have ever thought to use a gun to shoot someone at school. I just don't see the correlation there. I think the columbine shooters had other issues and whether they played violent video games or not probably didn't have much impact on the horrible choices they made. Maybe, maybe not, but what about the hundreds of other little kids who grew up playing shooting games...and still not choosing to shoot up their schools. We can ban guns and violent tv and video games but i think we are only fooling ourselves if we think that is the answer to stopping things like the columbine shootings. Just my opinion.
very well said
momofsix 06:36 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by Luna:
This thread inspired me to look at the research on gun play and children, and the overwhelming majority of the information indicates that not only is it NOT negative, it has positive play value. Gun play and rough & tumble play have nothing to do with violence. This reinforces my "gut instinct" and I will continue to allow it in my house. People should do what they are comfortable with - your house, your rules.
I did this same research a while back while trying to understand the boys in my care and found out the same stuff. It was quite eye-opening for me to read, and gave me a good perspective on the boy's play.
I don't allow "shooting" other people either.
I don't see anything wrong with shooting animals--if I can save a couple hundred dollars on groceries b/c my husband (an ordained pastor
) brings home a deer, i don't see anything wrong at all with that!It is being faithful with the resources we've been given. Hunters don't go out to "kill" the animal just for the sport of it, they do it to feed their families.
And a kid playiing hunter, or cops and robbers is NOTHING at all like a child playing "hooker". First of all-they know that cops are the 'good guys" out to protect us from the "bad guys"-the same good vs evil that is in almost every story! Second of all, a child should have NO IDEA what a hooker even is! Any child playing something like that in my home would have a visit from social services right away b/c that would mean horrible things were happening to/around that child. Trust me-I speak from experience on this one
QualiTcare 06:45 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I did this same research a while back while trying to understand the boys in my care and found out the same stuff. It was quite eye-opening for me to read, and gave me a good perspective on the boy's play.
I don't allow "shooting" other people either.
I don't see anything wrong with shooting animals--if I can save a couple hundred dollars on groceries b/c my husband (an ordained pastor) brings home a deer, i don't see anything wrong at all with that!It is being faithful with the resources we've been given. Hunters don't go out to "kill" the animal just for the sport of it, they do it to feed their families.
And a kid playiing hunter, or cops and robbers is NOTHING at all like a child playing "hooker". First of all-they know that cops are the 'good guys" out to protect us from the "bad guys"-the same good vs evil that is in almost every story! Second of all, a child should have NO IDEA what a hooker even is! Any child playing something like that in my home would have a visit from social services right away b/c that would mean horrible things were happening to/around that child. Trust me-I speak from experience on this one
mom,
there actually are tons of people who hunt for sport meaning they don't eat the meat. it's different when a hunter actually uses the meat.
momofsix 07:14 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by legomom922:
The columbine kids played violent shooting video games..what do you think they did before that? Played with toys guns I bet!
Shooting animals & hunting is not anymore acceptable to me..lets kill!!
Why does anybody have to kill anything? animals, people even if they are in a game??Ask anyone of those parents who lost a child in that incident and see what their feelings are on playing with guns/videogames, etc....
QualiT,
This is what I was responding to as far as that part goes, doesn't sound like that's what she's saying. I'm sure there are plenty that hunt for sport only, but I don't know any-the ones that I know that don't eat wild meat will at least donate it to the local food pantry! I agree it's totally wrong to shoot an animal for no reason except the hunt.
Gurdy 07:31 PM 11-17-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
there IS a huge difference, but kids can't understand this. many adults can't tell the difference. skim through this site and scroll to the bottom where there's a pic of some guns.
http://www.irol.com/avc/fact_sheet_about_toy_guns.html
f grown men who have a gun on their hip every day can't distinguish, i don't trust little kids to be able to.....and when tested, it's proven that they can't.
I have never suggested that kids should be permitted to play with guns made to look like real guns, nor that it should be up to kids to distinguish the difference.
I do not think that a child playing with a toy banana or a lego gun has anything to do with any of the gun accidents or school shootings. Whether you allow your child to play with toy guns or not I still think it is important to teach gun safety.
Live and Learn 07:35 PM 11-17-2010
bentley bands....I don't think Lego mom was saying her kids are perfect and I think that it was wrong of you to say that you would like to see her kids in 10 years to see how well they turned out.
BentleysBands 03:07 AM 11-18-2010
Originally Posted by Live and Learn:
bentley bands....I don't think Lego mom was saying her kids are perfect and I think that it was wrong of you to say that you would like to see her kids in 10 years to see how well they turned out.
ok let me rephrase then , she keeps saying her kids are not / never allowed to do certain NORMAL childrens play growing up, she says her kids have morals and know whats right/wrong (as if our own kids dont i guess) and i was saying that i'd love to see her kids in 10yrs and see what they have done . most likely behind her back since they werent allowed before. i would find it funny cuz MOST times , kids who grow up 'not allowed' certain things turn to those things or worse when older....i DO NOT WISH ANYTHING HORRIBLE. please understand that. i wasnt being ugly, didnt mean to be . I"m sorry you took it that way.
back to the thread going: GUNS DON'T KILL , PEOPLE DO