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Old 12-16-2011, 02:02 PM
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Default NEED HELP-Defiant/Out of Control Child

Hello everyone. I work as a director in a school-age daycare that caters to children ages 5-11. I have about 28-30 kids on a busy day, and I have one co-worker. I am posting here because I am desperate for help. I have a 3rd grade boy who is deeply troubled. He is defiant, sometimes aggressive, disruptive, manipulative, and makes my shifts at work a living hell. I go home exhausted every single day. This is saying a lot because I have past extensive experience working with kids with behavior issues/special needs and was successful.

From the minute I pick the kids up at school, he refuses to walk in line with us, runs ahead down the street, enters the room and starts running around and crawling on furniture. (While everyone else washes their hands, gets snack etc.) We have a structured, daily routine and he does not participate AT ALL. He runs wild from 3pm until he gets picked up at 6. I have done everything in my power to gain some sense of control over his behavior (time outs, losing outside time, earning positive behavior points to earn prizes, having one on one conversations with him, EVERYTHING.) I am at a complete loss. The minute his Mom shows up, he acts like an angel. He tells her complete LIES about his day. (I.e. If he goes up to a child and shoves them for no reason, he lies to his Mom and says the child was being mean to him. Not the case. I see everything that goes on. He terrorizes people without any reason.)

He kicks blocks over, does zero homework, throws food, has pooped on our bathroom floor (I can't prove it since I didn't see it with my own eyes but I know it was him because he was the only child in the bathroom,) screams at me and other children, throws things across the room, sharpens plastic spoons into knives, the list goes on.

I have spoken to Mom, his teacher, and Mom just nods her head and provides no support. I've basically given up trying to talk to her. His teacher just ignores him in class and does her best but has no advice for me.

I feel 100% alone. I'm tired and sometimes wish I could just stay home from work. He makes the environment in our daycare so hostile I have kids come up to me and beg me to kick him out. (Unfortunately, I have a boss who is higher than me, so I do not have the power to kick a child out unless they run away or physically assault another child more than just shoving.) My boss doesn't seem to understand the gravity of the problem so i've been documenting this child's behavior in a notebook.

His new thing is he has started throwing huge, 30 minute tantrums-crying and screaming for no reason. I have parents arriving to pick up their children and I know it unsettles them, but I just cannot get him to calm down.

What should I do? Should I try to talk to his Mom again? Does anyone have any magic tips that might help me connect with this child? I have tried many, many times to ask him questions and get to know him but he has no interests or hobbies. He makes no effort to connect with me, as many of the other children do. I'm frustrated and worn out.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:16 PM
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wow that is a lot of kids for only TWO people?? Am I reading that right?

Honestly if you have really tried that hard and he has not shown progress, sets a bad tone for the other children and sounds like a safety issue, I would let the kid go.....Especially if the parent is not hearing you and helping you with the child...

We can't save them all.... Time to move on and fill the spot..
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:23 PM
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We can't save them all.... Time to move on and fill the spot..
That would be my advice too.

Not only will it make your life easier, they will have to find a new arrangement... hopefully those people will say the same thing, and the parents might realize something is wrong, and it wasn't just you saying all these bad things.

So, he could get some help if he goes through a few more providers.

This kid sounds like he needs to go somewhere with a log of land so he can just go home and run all over the yard.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:33 PM
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She said she can't term because she isn't the boss.

Op~ DO you have a way for mom or your boss or both to possibly observe this child while not being seen by him? Would the mom perhaps give permission for him to be video taped so you can show both her and your boss the level of seriousness you are trying to convey to them?

Maybe you could also have other parents who have witnessed his behavior speak to the director. If i were a parent seeing this when picking up my child, I would be terrified to leave my child there...kwim?

I would also check and see if you could maybe have a behavioral specialist come in and observe so you can get a professional opinion.

FWIW~ I know EXACTLY how you feel about not wanting to come to work because of one child who can show the people he chooses that he is capable of behaving just to be the opposite when he thinks no one is watching. (((hugs))) simply for having ot go through this.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:39 PM
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oooppss I missed that part.... Yeah well if you cant term the child then I would build a case against him or try to get him outside professional help like Blackcat said...
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:15 PM
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She said she can't term because she isn't the boss.

Op~ DO you have a way for mom or your boss or both to possibly observe this child while not being seen by him? Would the mom perhaps give permission for him to be video taped so you can show both her and your boss the level of seriousness you are trying to convey to them?

Maybe you could also have other parents who have witnessed his behavior speak to the director. If i were a parent seeing this when picking up my child, I would be terrified to leave my child there...kwim?

I would also check and see if you could maybe have a behavioral specialist come in and observe so you can get a professional opinion.

FWIW~ I know EXACTLY how you feel about not wanting to come to work because of one child who can show the people he chooses that he is capable of behaving just to be the opposite when he thinks no one is watching. (((hugs))) simply for having ot go through this.
Yep, I would agree with this! Good luck to you! Yet another reason I am a family childcare provider, not a center teacher or a public school teacher. This is tough enough some days!
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:41 PM
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Its really not that many kids because they are all school aged and it sounds like an after school type program.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:02 PM
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oooppss I missed that part.... Yeah well if you cant term the child then I would build a case against him or try to get him outside professional help like Blackcat said...
Sorry, I missed that too.

Years ago, I threatened to quit if they didn't let term a kid in my class. The director thought I was just handling him wrong, and she came in to show me how it's done.... she termed him that day. LOL.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:06 PM
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wow that is a lot of kids for only TWO people?? Am I reading that right?
Yes, unfortunately. Here the school age (6-12) ratio is 25:1. Can you imagine supervising 25 different homeworks? The OP has actually an excellent ratio as hers is only 15:1 at most.

Its strange here, because 5 year old kindergarteners are not considered school age and their ratio is still 10:1, but then it jumps all the way up to twenty five kids to one teacher. So when you have one that's acting out, it really is hell.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:21 PM
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I agree with BlackCat. Beg your co-workers for help. Tell them you are drowning, dreading work and are on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Ask them to come in and observe and help. I don't know why this is 100% YOUR problem. You have co-workers and a supervisor for a reason. They need to be helping you.

Mom is obviously the issue here so I'd be calling an after hours meeting with your supervisor and her to discuss what's going on. For me personally and professionally, pooping on the floor in the bathroom at the age of 7-8 is a desperate cry for help and sends red flags that some deeper issue is going on (which you already know).
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:24 PM
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Oh MY stars.....thats just nuts....I think your nuts if you opt to work with that many kids....lol jk..but NUTS...I could not do it..

i used to coach youth sports 15-16 kids to a team ages starting at 5 all the way to 18 (not at the same time) i always had an assistant...no way in the world could I do it....

I guess I am not a good candidate to work with SA
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelicpretty View Post
Hello everyone. I work as a director in a school-age daycare that caters to children ages 5-11. I have about 28-30 kids on a busy day, and I have one co-worker. I am posting here because I am desperate for help. I have a 3rd grade boy who is deeply troubled. He is defiant, sometimes aggressive, disruptive, manipulative, and makes my shifts at work a living hell. I go home exhausted every single day. This is saying a lot because I have past extensive experience working with kids with behavior issues/special needs and was successful.
Welcome to the Daycare.com Forum! I've upgraded your status. You can post freely now.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:47 PM
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Op, can you film him in action? on a few different days/times? Then hand the film to your director and say him or you. Her choice. You can easily get another job at a different daycare or after school program. You probably get paid crap to take care of these school agers. Go to a place where you are valued and stop putting your life and health in jeopardy.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:04 PM
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This child is watching a lot of those prison shows...sharpening plastic spoons into knives!!! Where is the father or decent father figure in his life! There are many issues here and some bureaucrat has already slotted him for a prison bed in the very near future.

Keep documenting. I would look for other employment.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
She said she can't term because she isn't the boss.

Op~ DO you have a way for mom or your boss or both to possibly observe this child while not being seen by him? Would the mom perhaps give permission for him to be video taped so you can show both her and your boss the level of seriousness you are trying to convey to them?

Maybe you could also have other parents who have witnessed his behavior speak to the director. If i were a parent seeing this when picking up my child, I would be terrified to leave my child there...kwim?

I would also check and see if you could maybe have a behavioral specialist come in and observe so you can get a professional opinion.

FWIW~ I know EXACTLY how you feel about not wanting to come to work because of one child who can show the people he chooses that he is capable of behaving just to be the opposite when he thinks no one is watching. (((hugs))) simply for having ot go through this.
Does your facility have camera's installed in the classrooms? I know most facilities have them in the lobbies or outside...a lot of them also have them in the classroom.

I would request that the director observe from behind the door or somewhere no one is noticing her or have a specialist come in. If the director is not taking things seriously I wouldn't work there. Plain and simple. There are only 2 of you and how many kiddo's? That isn't enough people supervising and helping you with this one child. What about the assistant...has she also made complaints? I recommend after hrs making a apt for a meeting with your director and have your notes available to discuss. If the director doesn't at least make attempt to check it out on her own then I wouldn't stay and I would inform them of that. Time to start looking into other daycares to work for. And when your interviewing as them how they deal with situations like the one your in so you know a head of time that you'll have much needed support. Good luck to you and please update us!!
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