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  #1  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:17 AM
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Default Can I Do Anything Other Than Terminate?

I've been doing daycare for about 10 years and stick to 2 toddlers and then get kids on and off the bus, because I prefer to be legally unlicensed. So my turnover is pretty regular due to kids going to school full time, every few years. I don't know why, but it seems that every new pair of toddlers are more spoiled and indulged than the last!

Right now I have a pair of sisters - one just turned 2, the other is in half day Pre-K. They are SO high maintenance and their mother just gives in to every demand. "Paige wouldn't let me do her hair" and "Ava said she needs to nap in pajamas" and "Paige wouldn't let me xyz" and "Ava doesn't think she needs a nap" and so on. I've had them for just the past school year, because mom is a teacher. It seems like every day brings a new demand, from stuffed animals (I don't allow them to bring toys from home, as you ALL know how that goes &#128580 to "I'm early because Paige wanted to come" and so on. I just want to scream at this woman, THEY ARE 2 AND 4! BE A PARENT!! I've tried gently to tell her to be more assertive - the toddler lets me do her hair just fine, and no, your child doesn't need to put on pajamas to nap. Mom just has no interest in doing anything but indulging her divas, and I'm so tired of it. The toddler is a total bully with the other toddler I watch, because she's the Queen at home. The preschooler gives me grief every day about nap, but her mom wants her to nap and basically makes me the bad guy about it.

Do I have any choice but to terminate at this point? I'm pretty miserable - the end of day report where I tell her that her toddler is a terrorist is ALWAYS met with "oh she's tired today/oh she doesn't do that at home" or whatever other excuse. I hate to terminate but I feel like I don't really have much of a choice anymore - mom doesn't seem to want to work with me on anything, and is perfectly content to let me be the heavy while she gives into everything. Any advice, or am I wasting my time trying to salvage this? You can tell me 😂

I was hoping to hold out until next month when school ends, so that I can terminate and then she will have the whole summer to find someone else. But I have Fibromyalgia, I'm stressed all day every day which causes my symptoms to flare, and I'm so exhausted. I just know how hard it is to find care in this area and I feel bad 🤦🏻*♀️
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:31 AM
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I've been doing daycare for about 10 years and stick to 2 toddlers and then get kids on and off the bus, because I prefer to be legally unlicensed. So my turnover is pretty regular due to kids going to school full time, every few years. I don't know why, but it seems that every new pair of toddlers are more spoiled and indulged than the last!

Right now I have a pair of sisters - one just turned 2, the other is in half day Pre-K. They are SO high maintenance and their mother just gives in to every demand. "Paige wouldn't let me do her hair" and "Ava said she needs to nap in pajamas" and "Paige wouldn't let me xyz" and "Ava doesn't think she needs a nap" and so on. I've had them for just the past school year, because mom is a teacher. It seems like every day brings a new demand, from stuffed animals (I don't allow them to bring toys from home, as you ALL know how that goes &#128580 to "I'm early because Paige wanted to come" and so on. I just want to scream at this woman, THEY ARE 2 AND 4! BE A PARENT!! I've tried gently to tell her to be more assertive - the toddler lets me do her hair just fine, and no, your child doesn't need to put on pajamas to nap. Mom just has no interest in doing anything but indulging her divas, and I'm so tired of it. The toddler is a total bully with the other toddler I watch, because she's the Queen at home. The preschooler gives me grief every day about nap, but her mom wants her to nap and basically makes me the bad guy about it.

Do I have any choice but to terminate at this point? I'm pretty miserable - the end of day report where I tell her that her toddler is a terrorist is ALWAYS met with "oh she's tired today/oh she doesn't do that at home" or whatever other excuse. I hate to terminate but I feel like I don't really have much of a choice anymore - mom doesn't seem to want to work with me on anything, and is perfectly content to let me be the heavy while she gives into everything. Any advice, or am I wasting my time trying to salvage this? You can tell me 😂

I was hoping to hold out until next month when school ends, so that I can terminate and then she will have the whole summer to find someone else. But I have Fibromyalgia, I'm stressed all day every day which causes my symptoms to flare, and I'm so exhausted. I just know how hard it is to find care in this area and I feel bad 🤦🏻*♀️
I think you already know the answer.


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Old 05-09-2019, 09:54 AM
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As hard as it is to give notice, I agree with BC, especially when it comes to our own health. If you have a family that isn't willing to acknowledge there are issues you need to both work on together to fix, then nothing will ever change. You'll be more stressed and you'll get sicker.
Maybe give her 2 weeks to get it together and tell her if there's no improvement, she'll have to find other care. Your health and sanity depends on it. Good luck!!!
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:01 AM
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I think you already know the answer.


Thank you! I take termination super seriously so I always second-guess myself when I think it might be time!
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:04 AM
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As hard as it is to give notice, I agree with BC, especially when it comes to our own health. If you have a family that isn't willing to acknowledge there are issues you need to both work on together to fix, then nothing will ever change. You'll be more stressed and you'll get sicker.
Maybe give her 2 weeks to get it together and tell her if there's no improvement, she'll have to find other care. Your health and sanity depends on it. Good luck!!!
Thank you! I'm terrible about putting myself first but yes, it feels like it's time to face the music. I've been waffling on it for the last week or so because I'm ridiculous and worry they won't be able to find care elsewhere... Even though clearly that's not my problem! I'm too empathetic for my own good most of the time 😶
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:33 PM
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I was in this same predicament last year. I had to term. It was just too much and I started to resent the parents. I took my time choosing better families to work with. Currently my situation is way better. Not perfect but the kids in my care have parents that try. Good luck to you!
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:41 AM
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I did not listen to my body.I had a very difficult group one child in particular.She cried constantly and didn't nap well.She would set the tone for the day .Others started crying when she started.I kept saying oh it'll get better then the youngest infant cried whenever he was put down.I did tell the parents that things needed to change.They were no help.Finnally that Feb .I actually had a heart attack.The stress of each day ws to much.I ended up retiring earlier than I wanted .I can't help thinking if I had just terminated the first child things would have worked out.My advice would be to give 2 weeks notice and if no improvement call it.I was close to retirement but you may want to work longer your health is important.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:34 AM
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I did not listen to my body.I had a very difficult group one child in particular.She cried constantly and didn't nap well.She would set the tone for the day .Others started crying when she started.I kept saying oh it'll get better then the youngest infant cried whenever he was put down.I did tell the parents that things needed to change.They were no help.Finnally that Feb .I actually had a heart attack.The stress of each day ws to much.I ended up retiring earlier than I wanted .I can't help thinking if I had just terminated the first child things would have worked out.My advice would be to give 2 weeks notice and if no improvement call it.I was close to retirement but you may want to work longer your health is important.
Holy cow, I am SO sorry! A heart attack! I have had now two stress-induced non-epileptic seizures this year and my doctor has been pushing me to cut back but man, it's so hard!

I did just type and print up their "walking papers". After this post, the toddler kicked my poor sweet house rabbit because I put her in time out, and then when I told Mom what an awful day we were having, she told me she got out of work and was going to walk the dog and pick up at normal time. SO, that was my breaking point. I'm giving them 2 weeks notice with the caveat that if any violence against my animals happens again, termination will be immediate. Now I internally spazz out until 3:30 when I get to break the news. Agh, this job!!
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:37 AM
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I was in this same predicament last year. I had to term. It was just too much and I started to resent the parents. I took my time choosing better families to work with. Currently my situation is way better. Not perfect but the kids in my care have parents that try. Good luck to you!
It's one of the hardest parts about this job! I'm super selective about who I'll take, given that I can only take 2 full timers - man, this family really snowed me over! I've hung in there for 9 months with them but it's gotten drastically bad in the last 2 months for some reason. I've decided not to even replace these two and stick with one fulltimer and the 2 before and after schoolers. I'm working towards closing all together but I'm not quite ready yet!
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:51 AM
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I think you are doing the right thing. You will feel so relieved once they are gone. There is only so much you can do when parents wonít cooperate. I hope your rabbit is ok.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:27 AM
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Holy cow, I am SO sorry! A heart attack! I have had now two stress-induced non-epileptic seizures this year and my doctor has been pushing me to cut back but man, it's so hard!

I did just type and print up their "walking papers". After this post, the toddler kicked my poor sweet house rabbit because I put her in time out, and then when I told Mom what an awful day we were having, she told me she got out of work and was going to walk the dog and pick up at normal time. SO, that was my breaking point. I'm giving them 2 weeks notice with the caveat that if any violence against my animals happens again, termination will be immediate. Now I internally spazz out until 3:30 when I get to break the news. Agh, this job!!
Oh no! I hope your rabbit is okay! Poor thing!


As for having to break the news.... that is hard.
Something that helps me when I don't want to do that part or atleast avoid the drama is that I write up the notice and put it in a sealed envelope.

At pick up, I hand it to the parent and say "This is for you. I don't really want to discuss it in front of the kids so please read it when you get home and if you have any questions, please feel free to email me. Thank you!"

If the parent asks what it is or starts to open it right away, I just say "Susan, please read the info at home. I will not discuss this issue right now. Have a great night!" and then turn around and walk away from them.

Good luck! It's hard right now (during the day) but once it's over and you've shared the news with them, you will feel soooooo relieved!!!
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:15 PM
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I also would do the sealed envelope.Trying to have that conversation in front of the children and or other parents is not right for you. I think once you get through pick-up you will feel much relief.I hope it goes well ,this is one of the hardest things of this job.Enjoy your weekend.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:27 PM
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Luckily, I'm NOT afraid of confrontation at all 😂 but I did have my husband come home from work a few hours early to help wrangle the kids! While I'm a bleeding heart, I have a steel backbone once I've made my mind up!

Pepper the bunny is a rescue and has some special needs, so I was SO scared but luckily she seems to be acting fine today!
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:33 PM
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Pepper the bunny is a rescue and has some special needs, so I was SO scared but luckily she seems to be acting fine today!
Oh so good to hear!

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Luckily, I'm NOT afraid of confrontation at all 😂 but I did have my husband come home from work a few hours early to help wrangle the kids! While I'm a bleeding heart, I have a steel backbone once I've made my mind up!
Awesome!

You are probably the first person to say that.....

I rarely look at anything in this line of work as confrontational but it seems a lot of others do so I am always prepared to offer an alternative suggestion or advice to avoid what feels confrontational for them.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:53 PM
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Oh so good to hear!



Awesome!

You are probably the first person to say that.....

I rarely look at anything in this line of work as confrontational but it seems a lot of others do so I am always prepared to offer an alternative suggestion or advice to avoid what feels confrontational for them.
Well, that didn't go well 🤦🏻*♀️ but ITS DONE
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:31 PM
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Well, that didn't go well 🤦🏻*♀️ but ITS DONE
Yay!!! Hoping the relief is super enjoyable!!

Now you just need to make it through the next two weeks.

Hopefully mom behaves.
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:48 PM
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We had a REALLY bad termination about 4 years ago. I wish our director would have done what ya'll suggested and just written a note and put it into a sealed envelope and told the parent to read it later.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:30 AM
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I'm glad for you that it's over and done with but sorry it didn't go well. I'm sure when parents hear it, it's such a shock(usually) that their first reaction is a knee-jerk reaction. But at least now, the stress will be lessened for you!
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:53 PM
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Sorry it didn't go well, but when I read "I'm pretty miserable" it was an obvious sign that it was time for them to go.

It is hard to terminate. So far I haven't been able to - I always talked myself into hanging in there until the family leaves on their own. I have really good families right now, but I think I'm finally at a point that I could terminate if I wasn't happy.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:49 PM
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I did not listen to my body.I had a very difficult group one child in particular.She cried constantly and didn't nap well.She would set the tone for the day .Others started crying when she started.I kept saying oh it'll get better then the youngest infant cried whenever he was put down.I did tell the parents that things needed to change.They were no help.Finnally that Feb .I actually had a heart attack.The stress of each day ws to much.I ended up retiring earlier than I wanted .I can't help thinking if I had just terminated the first child things would have worked out.My advice would be to give 2 weeks notice and if no improvement call it.I was close to retirement but you may want to work longer your health is important.
I have a very stressful group right now including an infant that sounds just like the one you described. I can't put her down without her screaming as though she's being tortured and like you said, that sets off the rest of the group - which doesn't need much help to be set off! In terms of behavior, it's the toughest group overall that I've had since I started doing day care. Lately, it feels like all I'm doing is running back and forth trying to put out fires that just keep re-igniting! You've been in my thoughts a lot these days! I've often wondered if you felt the stress of the job contributed to your heart attack and I've also wondered if I'm making a mistake trying to tough some of this stuff out. You've given me something to think about for sure.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:51 PM
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Well, that didn't go well 🤦🏻*♀️ but ITS DONE
I'm sorry the termination didn't go well but hopefully things will only get better once they're gone.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:13 PM
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e.j I definitely feel the stress helped push towards the heart attack.It was a very hard winter as well.We had so much snow outdoor walks and play were impossible. The two main criers were constantly fussy ,one had actually been on probation.It was the perfect storm stress,long days and crying babies.Sometimes I wished I had cut down enrollment .Maybe that would have made a difference .Each of us need to know when to call it .It is hard we become attached ,we need the income and caring for children often is who we are.Its hard to know whats best.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:53 PM
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Each of us need to know when to call it .It is hard we become attached ,we need the income and caring for children often is who we are.Its hard to know whats best.
So true. All of my kids right now are 2 1/2 and under except for the school agers that come now and then when they don't have school. The older kids are wonderful but the youngers ones are keeping me hopping. I keep thinking I just need to hang in there until they turn 3. Usually it gets better from there.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:46 PM
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Let's just say, both kids are making it so I WON'T miss them 😂 Lord give me strength
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:47 AM
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So what happened with giving notice?

I'm working out a 2 week notice and am ready for it to be OVER. I just want normalcy and happiness around here again. The good thing about situations like these are they are great teaching moments about what not to allow or accept in the future!

I don't know for sure that I could've given notice after the incident with the bunny. Deliberate physical harm to one of my animals? Bye, right now!!! I've had impulsive kids that weren't allowed anywhere near my dogs (as in, don't even look at them.... Lol) but man that would not fly with me.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:09 AM
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So what happened with giving notice?

I'm working out a 2 week notice and am ready for it to be OVER. I just want normalcy and happiness around here again. The good thing about situations like these are they are great teaching moments about what not to allow or accept in the future!

I don't know for sure that I could've given notice after the incident with the bunny. Deliberate physical harm to one of my animals? Bye, right now!!! I've had impulsive kids that weren't allowed anywhere near my dogs (as in, don't even look at them.... Lol) but man that would not fly with me.
Trust me, I considered immediate termination. I have too much empathy I swear.

I told her that I was giving her two weeks notice and she acted completely flabbergasted. Asked me if this was a joke... Umm, no. I have a hard time believing that she's in that deep of denial about how her children behave, but whatever. Then she was pissed because "there's only 6 more weeks until summer break" and she's a teacher, and she said "well what if I can't find someone else" etc. I said simply "I have to do what is best for my health, my family and my daycare so this is your notice. You have 2 weeks to find alternate care. If there is any more violence towards my animals or another kid, I will terminate immediately. I wrote up a whole list of people and agencies to call, so I suggest you start calling" and that was that! Basically, she tried to get pissy with me and act like I was inconveniencing her and I just had the OH WELL, not my problem attitude right back. Because I'm making it no longer my problem.

Termination is hard, no matter how you do it. There will most likely be push back and the parent will be angry, but all you can do is hold your own. I always feel okay with terming because I know that I do more than most to try to avoid it... So I'm REALLY at the end of my rope if I'm terminating.

This is now my 5th or 6th termination in 10 years. Most were just for inconsistent or non-payment. A few were behavior related. It gets easier over time, but I still always dread the conversation.

Honestly, this DCM is extremely self-absorbed and makes me feel like I only exist for her to use me as needed. And I'm not okay with being treated like that, and the abhorrent behavior of her toddler and neurotic nature of her preschooler just sealed the deal for me. GIRL BYE!
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:35 AM
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Itís her problem now. Good for you! And yeah, kicking one of my pets would have been the last straw.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:49 AM
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Good for you MamaG!!!!
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:57 AM
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Good for you MamaG!!!!
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:01 AM
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Mom now wants to argue with me on the deposit for last two weeks of care 🙄 she's not staying for the full two weeks and wants a refund. Yeah, no, that's not how this works and maybe you should read your contract next time!

Let this be a cautionary tale - daycare parents will always do what is best for them, even at your expense, so we need to do the same! I'm so guilty of having more empathy than most, and while I had every right to terminate immediately after the toddler punted my rabbit across the room, but I gave 2 weeks notice to help them have more time to find alternate care. However, mom is more than happy to screw me out of $275 by pulling them a week early! THIS is why we all need to have contracts in place and charge deposits! We also need to have more backbone when dealing with daycare parents... Myself included!
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:11 AM
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I am sorry she is giving you a hard time. It is straight from the playbook, though. Every. Single. Time.

That is why I don't charge a deposit. No issues when they leave. 99% of the time they leave the day I give notice so I simply have them pay Monday mornings in advance for the week. If they leave Friday, I lost nothing. If they leave Wednesday, they lose two days stay.

I hope your next client is golden, you deserve it.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:29 AM
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I am sorry she is giving you a hard time. It is straight from the playbook, though. Every. Single. Time.

That is why I don't charge a deposit. No issues when they leave. 99% of the time they leave the day I give notice so I simply have them pay Monday mornings in advance for the week. If they leave Friday, I lost nothing. If they leave Wednesday, they lose two days stay.

I hope your next client is golden, you deserve it.
Yeah, I go back and forth on deposits! This particular family contacted me in February 2018 and wanted 2 spots held for them until September, so I needed some sort of assurance. I used to not do a deposit and started doing one when a family out of nowhere just said the kid wasn't coming anymore, and it had nothing to do with me, just finances. It really screwed up my whole month, financially. It's like you can't win either way!

Thank you. I'm not taking any new clients and working towards closing in the next year or two, so I'm hoping this is the last time I have to deal with stuff like this!!
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:36 AM
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Yeah, I go back and forth on deposits! This particular family contacted me in February 2018 and wanted 2 spots held for them until September, so I needed some sort of assurance. I used to not do a deposit and started doing one when a family out of nowhere just said the kid wasn't coming anymore, and it had nothing to do with me, just finances. It really screwed up my whole month, financially. It's like you can't win either way!

Thank you. I'm not taking any new clients and working towards closing in the next year or two, so I'm hoping this is the last time I have to deal with stuff like this!!
The sad thing is this family will never even know how lucky they were to find you. I don't know anyone who would be willing to hold two slots for anyone. You went above and beyond for them.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:11 AM
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The sad thing is this family will never even know how lucky they were to find you. I don't know anyone who would be willing to hold two slots for anyone. You went above and beyond for them.
Man, I tried! They just seem like very self-absorbed people who have the "you work for me" mentality. Nope! I work for myself and work WITH you to help raise your children!
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:18 AM
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Mom now wants to argue with me on the deposit for last two weeks of care 🙄 she's not staying for the full two weeks and wants a refund. Yeah, no, that's not how this works and maybe you should read your contract next time!

Let this be a cautionary tale - daycare parents will always do what is best for them, even at your expense, so we need to do the same! I'm so guilty of having more empathy than most, and while I had every right to terminate immediately after the toddler punted my rabbit across the room, but I gave 2 weeks notice to help them have more time to find alternate care. However, mom is more than happy to screw me out of $275 by pulling them a week early! THIS is why we all need to have contracts in place and charge deposits! We also need to have more backbone when dealing with daycare parents... Myself included!
This mom takes the cake! Its her CHOICE to leave now so you owe her nothing. So crazy!

I always terminate in email now after a particularly bad face to face term. I like parents to take time to gather their thoughts and I do not need to be part of that process or their lashing out. I have never had parents use the two weeks or ask for a refund thankfully!

Anyway you must feel so relieved it is over!
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:02 AM
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This mom takes the cake! Its her CHOICE to leave now so you owe her nothing. So crazy!

I always terminate in email now after a particularly bad face to face term. I like parents to take time to gather their thoughts and I do not need to be part of that process or their lashing out. I have never had parents use the two weeks or ask for a refund thankfully!

Anyway you must feel so relieved it is over!
I am SO relieved!! One more day, one more day!
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:06 PM
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I am sorry she is giving you a hard time. It is straight from the playbook, though. Every. Single. Time.

That is why I don't charge a deposit. No issues when they leave. 99% of the time they leave the day I give notice so I simply have them pay Monday mornings in advance for the week. If they leave Friday, I lost nothing. If they leave Wednesday, they lose two days stay.

I hope your next client is golden, you deserve it.
Same. I charge a deposit for potential fees on leaving though.

@Mamag I feel so bad to hear about your bunny, and I'm glad it's okay. We got a house bunny too a few weeks ago, and I've been wondering how hardy they are. Ours stays in its cage though during daycare hours.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:47 PM
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Same. I charge a deposit for potential fees on leaving though.

@Mamag I feel so bad to hear about your bunny, and I'm glad it's okay. We got a house bunny too a few weeks ago, and I've been wondering how hardy they are. Ours stays in its cage though during daycare hours.
Believe it or not, pretty hardy! My only advice is if it's a female, have it spayed (if you haven't already). Uterine cancer is the number one cause of early death in female rabbits! This rabbit is a one I rescued - she was found outside, skin and bones with a head tilt at a friend's house. They didn't know what to do so I took her in 😂 she's my like 4th house rabbit in my lifetime and the second one currently residing in this house! Rabbits are awesome because they are like quiet small dogs 😂
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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Ours was found wandering outside too. But it was in okay health.

It's health is not certain right now though, since I just discovered it has eaten our roku wire.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:28 AM
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Ours was found wandering outside too. But it was in okay health.

It's health is not certain right now though, since I just discovered it has eaten our roku wire.
Agh! I cannot tell you how many headphone wires have been the victim of our rabbit 😂
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