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  #1  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:56 AM
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Unhappy Temination Due To Transportation W/Out Permission

i started my son at a new daycare in february. he liked it. this was a license facility located at the owners home. it was her and her daughter that ran the daycare together. altogether there are 4 of them in the family, one of which is a highschool boy who plays baseball. all members of this family refuse to miss any of his baseball games if they are located in town. at the start of my son attending they had me sign a contract and included a permission slip for transportation of my son to these baseball games if i could not pick him up before the game-i did NOT sign it. i work 8am-5pm everyday and the games start at 4:30 in which she said, at the time of signing up, that she would let me know the dates of these games. this week she had sent me a text message at 8PM the night BEFORE a baseball game telling me i had to leave work early the next day and pick up my son by 4pm so they could go to their game. with such short notice i was not able to leave work and she took my son to the game with her without my permission! so a couple questions..

is that even legal?

i immediately removed him from her daycare and he will not be going back because of what she did.. in her contract is states that she needs 4week notice and to be paid for that 4 weeks, but because she broke that part of the contract, do i still need to pay her?

can she send me to collections and have ground to stand on for payment?
  #2  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:10 AM
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I am not insinuating this is your fault at all but am wondering if you called her that day to say you could not leave work with a reminder that you had not signed the permisson to transport slip.
  #3  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:15 AM
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Im not sure what state you're in, but our state paperwork has a consent written right into it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:19 AM
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It sounds like she told you of these situations when you signed up with her. Since you had knowledge of this in the beginning, I believe you would be responsible for upholding your part of the contract. I don't necessarily believe it was right of her to transport, but if you knew this would a possibility in the beginning, you would have been better off finding another provider.

If I were your provider and you pulled your child from my care, I'd send you to collections for nonpayment.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:20 AM
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If your provider is required by law to get a signed permission slip to transport your child, then she is the one in the wrong and did break the contract.

I would definitely call your area licensing office and discuss this with the licensor.

Depending on whether or not she was required to obtain written permission or not will depend on whether or not she can pursue payment for the final four week notice period.
  #6  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly View Post
It sounds like she told you of these situations when you signed up with her. Since you had knowledge of this in the beginning, I believe you would be responsible for upholding your part of the contract. I don't necessarily believe it was right of her to transport, but if you knew this would a possibility in the beginning, you would have been better off finding another provider.

If I were your provider and you pulled your child from my care, I'd send you to collections for nonpayment.
But it depends on what if any plan of action the provider and parent had about notice for early pick up, how often it happens and what the provider will do if the parent can't pick up early.

Simply saying I want you (the parent) to leave work early every time I ask you, even with short notice is not a legal binding agreement/
  #7  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:29 AM
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If you were that set on her not transporting your son I think you should of made sure he was picked up. It seems that she made it very clear that she either needed to be able to transport or needed you to pick up early on days she had games to attend. Im not saying that her transporting without your permission is ok BUT she had plans.....and its you responsibility to get him picked up on time.
  #8  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
i started my son at a new daycare in february. he liked it. this was a license facility located at the owners home. it was her and her daughter that ran the daycare together. altogether there are 4 of them in the family, one of which is a highschool boy who plays baseball. all members of this family refuse to miss any of his baseball games if they are located in town. at the start of my son attending they had me sign a contract and included a permission slip for transportation of my son to these baseball games if i could not pick him up before the game-i did NOT sign it. i work 8am-5pm everyday and the games start at 4:30 in which she said, at the time of signing up, that she would let me know the dates of these games. this week she had sent me a text message at 8PM the night BEFORE a baseball game telling me i had to leave work early the next day and pick up my son by 4pm so they could go to their game. with such short notice i was not able to leave work and she took my son to the game with her without my permission! so a couple questions..


is that even legal?

i immediately removed him from her daycare and he will not be going back because of what she did.. in her contract is states that she needs 4week notice and to be paid for that 4 weeks, but because she broke that part of the contract, do i still need to pay her?

can she send me to collections and have ground to stand on for payment?


I am curious as to why you signed up with her?? She did tell you she would not miss her son's games & I can't say I blame her. She should have possibly given you more notice BUT she did tell you in advance she wouldn't miss a game. I have 3 boys in baseball & would do the same in a heartbeat. My family has to come first. That said we never have games that early so I wouldn't be transporting kids to them.

I don't know about the contract although you did sign saying you would pay for 4 weeks. She should not have transported without notice but if she did give you notice of the game why did you not pick up on time????
  #9  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:35 AM
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he has games for a month and a half-til the middle to end of may. she did this to me monday night and tuesday she said the next game was this week on thursday in which i would have to leave work again..
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:36 AM
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at my work i have to fill out a form to request time off.. when she let me know about this early pick-up it was 8pm and was not able to do that until the day of, which my boss would not let me do
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:38 AM
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he has games for a month and a half-til the middle to end of may. she did this to me monday night and tuesday she said the next game was this week on thursday in which i would have to leave work again..
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelliott View Post
at my work i have to fill out a form to request time off.. when she let me know about this early pick-up it was 8pm and was not able to do that until the day of, which my boss would not let me do
Did you two have a plan in place for times you were not able to leave work early?

Was there a minimum notice time in which she had to let you know that you had to pick up early?

How far in advance did she normally tell you there was a game?
  #12  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:39 AM
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i understand that this is in part my fault and that i should have found another daycare provider, but i am a single mom that works full time and goes to school ALL without ANY type of financial aid or assistance. she was the one i could afford, so i went with her..i have to keep my job and at the same time i want my son to be happy and safe..i didn't know what else to do with such a time crunch trying to find a daycare
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly View Post
It sounds like she told you of these situations when you signed up with her. Since you had knowledge of this in the beginning, I believe you would be responsible for upholding your part of the contract. I don't necessarily believe it was right of her to transport, but if you knew this would a possibility in the beginning, you would have been better off finding another provider.

If I were your provider and you pulled your child from my care, I'd send you to collections for nonpayment.
ITA with this.
  #14  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:40 AM
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this was the first game and she told me at 8pm the night before the day i had to leave work early. she says that she told me ahead of time and gave me plenty of time to arrange his pickup, but she didn't give me dates on when these games would be whatsoever..
  #15  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:43 AM
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because the notice she gave me was less than 24 hours before his game and i had no time ahead to give my boss notice..i can't just show up to work and tell him when i want to leave..i have to fill out a request form for time off
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:46 AM
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She was in the wrong for transporting without permission and for the amount of notice given, as usually the whole game schedule is given out all at once.

However, you were aware of the situation and therefore should have made arrangements with your boss way ahead of time (in February when you signed up with her) for this to happen, or you could have found someone to pick up your child on game days, or you could have found someone else to care for your child that did not have this issue.

Was the provider made aware at the time that you signed up with her of your company's policy on asking for time off?

Was this was the first game of the season? It's very possible that they just got the schedule, and gave you what notice they could.




I'm not saying that she's totally at fault or that you are - it seems like neither of you were proactive enough in the beginning. This should have been worked out well before the beginning of baseball season.

Now I think that the two of you need to talk this through before you move forward.
  #17  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:47 AM
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If there was no written agreement in regards to this, the provider is still the one in the wrong.

A provider cannot just transport a child without written permission if the requires it.
  #18  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
Im not sure what state you're in, but our state paperwork has a consent written right into it.
(Clarification: the paperwork has a place where parents check to give consent or deny permission for transportation.)

My opinion is that it was wrong for the provider to transport your child without your permission. Period. She should've stayed home with your child then either given you a warning, terminated care, or whatever, but she shouldn't have taken your child.
  #19  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo View Post
(Clarification: the paperwork has a place where parents check to give consent or deny permission for transportation.)

My opinion is that it was wrong for the provider to transport your child without your permission. Period. She should've stayed home with your child then either given you a warning, terminated care, or whatever, but she shouldn't have taken your child.


It doesn't matter what the parent should or shouldn't have done.

The provider has laws and regulations she MUST follow and if the law in the OP's state says a signed permission slip is required to transport, the provider broke the law.

The parent didn't break any laws.
  #20  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:57 AM
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I wasn't trying to say that the OP was wrong in that. It just seems to me like there was a lot of confusion over the transportation that should have been worked out before this child ever started in the first place.

I agree that she is definitely in the wrong for transporting without permission. If I were the OP, I'd be livid.

Does that void the rest of the contract, though?


Maybe I should have stayed out of this one, I've got contracts and permission slips on the brain today and I'm all confused.
  #21  
Old 04-24-2013, 12:04 PM
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I wasn't trying to say that the OP was wrong in that. It just seems to me like there was a lot of confusion over the transportation that should have been worked out before this child ever started in the first place.

I agree that she is definitely in the wrong for transporting without permission. If I were the OP, I'd be livid.

Does that void the rest of the contract, though?


Maybe I should have stayed out of this one, I've got contracts and permission slips on the brain today and I'm all confused.
Personally, I think it does void the contract. It has to do with safety

That's why I think it's important to have everything in writing.

I think the parent should absolutely have had back up plans or some other plan in place for this but not doing so wasn't illegal kwim?

The provider is held to the laws before a parent is held to what's ethically right or wrong.
  #22  
Old 04-24-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Personally, I think it does void the contract. It has to do with safety

That's why I think it's important to have everything in writing.

I think the parent should absolutely have had back up plans or some other plan in place for this but not doing so wasn't illegal kwim?

The provider is held to the laws before a parent is held to what's ethically right or wrong.


ITA it voids the contract.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 PM
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The provider is at fault for transporting. That being said, I'm curious since you liked her, your child liked her, the price was right, you knew about the early pick ups for games, why didn't you sign the form to allow her to transport in a situation where you couldn't get off work in time?
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:35 PM
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ITA it voids the contract.
My understanding is; it only voids the contract if it was part of the contract. I just read up on this the other day when there was another contract discussion. OP said it WAS part of the contract, though.

So, even if you (we dcp's) violate our policies or the state regs, it does not breach the contract. Violating the regs would mean the parent can call licensing, but it would not affect their obligation to the contract.

If we (as providers) violate the contract, THEN it breaches the contract, and the parent can walk away.

That's why our contract should only involve finances. Costs, late fees, days off, etc. It should never have policies unrelated to finances, permission slips, etc.
Maybe Tom could chime in on this? I know he'll know!
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:36 PM
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The provider is at fault for transporting. That being said, I'm curious since you liked her, your child liked her, the price was right, you knew about the early pick ups for games, why didn't you sign the form to allow her to transport in a situation where you couldn't get off work in time?

I wonder the same thing.

If everything else is great why would you not not allow her to take your child?
  #26  
Old 04-24-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
My understanding is; it only voids the contract if it was part of the contract. I just read up on this the other day when there was another contract discussion. OP said it WAS part of the contract, though.

So, even if you (we dcp's) violate our policies or the state regs, it does not breach the contract. Violating the regs would mean the parent can call licensing, but it would not affect their obligation to the contract.

If we (as providers) violate the contract, THEN it breaches the contract, and the parent can walk away.

That's why our contract should only involve finances. Costs, late fees, days off, etc. It should never have policies unrelated to finances, permission slips, etc.
Maybe Tom could chime in on this? I know he'll know!
Why then would the provider have given the parent a permission slip to sign then?

Plus most states require providers to have additional insurance policies/coverages if they transport kids.

I can't imagine who would have been liable had there been an accident with the OP's child in the car and the provider driving....
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:09 PM
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yes i did.. in fact, she texted me and said that i did not approve transportation therefore i would need to pick him up early.. and it was the DAY OF the game in which case i could not just tell my boss i wanted to leave
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:11 PM
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yes i did.. in fact, she texted me and said that i did not approve transportation therefore i would need to pick him up early.. and it was the DAY OF the game in which case i could not just tell my boss i wanted to leave
Kelliot.... I'm curious as the others.... Was there a particular reason you didn't approve her to transport?
  #29  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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Why then would the provider have given the parent a permission slip to sign then?

Plus most states require providers to have additional insurance policies/coverages if they transport kids.

I can't imagine who would have been liable had there been an accident with the OP's child in the car and the provider driving....
If she had her sign a permission slip, or in this case, the parent refused, it does not void the contract. If she had it ON her contract (which is what I got from OP), and the parent refused (or checked the "no" box?), then...the provider violated her own contract, thus breaching the contract.

As for the liability, boy oh boy, that provider transporting without any sort of permission would definately cause her a liability if anything happened! No question there.

I'm sure every state's contract law is a little different. I just looked more, and it seems that CA, for example, has different rules than WI when it comes to contract law. I'm thinking the parent needs to consult with an attorney to find out if she is legally obligated to pay the 4 week notice....
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:14 PM
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ok.. that info helped a bit.. let me ask you this then, if i pay her what is stated in the contract(4 weeks of care whether he is there or not).. would the fact that she took my child in a vehicle without permission still be something for me to stand on as far as her licensing goes?

i really don't agree with it and think it was wrong of her to do..i have no doubt that if she were to have given me more advanced notice, i would have been able to work something out..but the attitude she is giving me and the way she is responding is so childish and uncalled for, i need something that will make her see it from my perspective and be reasonable.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:17 PM
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i am in California.. not sure of all the laws for childcare centers (obviously:/)

basically what i am getting out of this is that i am still obligated to pay the 4 week period after taking him out of her care, BUT she can still be in some trouble with transporting my son without permission...??
  #32  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:20 PM
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i am in California.. not sure of all the laws for childcare centers (obviously:/)

basically what i am getting out of this is that i am still obligated to pay the 4 week period after taking him out of her care, BUT she can still be in some trouble with transporting my son without permission...??
I think someone from California would know more and have the right answers for you.

Hang on and I will see if I can prompt a California member to respond.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:21 PM
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ok.. that info helped a bit.. let me ask you this then, if i pay her what is stated in the contract(4 weeks of care whether he is there or not).. would the fact that she took my child in a vehicle without permission still be something for me to stand on as far as her licensing goes?

i really don't agree with it and think it was wrong of her to do..i have no doubt that if she were to have given me more advanced notice, i would have been able to work something out..but the attitude she is giving me and the way she is responding is so childish and uncalled for, i need something that will make her see it from my perspective and be reasonable.
Chances are she won't, because she probably thinks she is being reasonable. Obviously, being at those games meant a lot to her. As others have already said, obviously there was a breakdown of communication along the way.

If she violated licensing rules, then you do have recourse, and that is to report her.

As far as her attitude....let it go. She's mad, your mad, but it won't fix anything.

Was the permission slip actually part of the contract? If it was, and you clearly indicated NO on the contract, I don't think you owe her $.

If it was a seperate document, then I think you may, BUT, I would call an attorney or legal aid, if there is such a thing near you.

I hope you find a new provider that you like, and that things go smoother!

Edited to add:

See...BC is finding a local expert for you! I know CA law is different from WI for sure. This is written for dcp's, but maybe it'll give you some answers..
http://www.childcarelaw.org/docs/providercontracts.pdf
  #34  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:31 PM
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everything was not great.. my son like her, yes.. but i wasn't %100 happy with her at any point in time.. the fees were ridiculous and it just seemed as if mine, or any of the kids for that matter, were a burden to her on any given day. the day i checked out her daycare(because i know how daycare centers are with sick kids) i told her that pretty much ever since my son was born he has had a runny nose which his physician said was allergies and nothing to be concerned about..she replied to that statement with "as long as it's not green it's okay. green means they have an infection"... about 3 weeks ago she sent me a message stating "contagious or not, if your child has allergies and you don't want them on medication then they need to stay home...ash and i have spend the last week cleaning noses and everything that snot can be smeared on. call your pediatrician and they can tell you what would be best to take"...... if i would have taken him out then(my physician-who i'm sure knows more about toddler health issures than she does, said that he does not need medication) would i still be legally binded to the contract since she technically was the one who told me not to bring him?
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:36 PM
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I have a contract, registration pack, PHB.

Contract-Everything to do with money

Registration-Forms, forms, forms (permisison forms for many things)

PHB-Policies

So my contract has nothing in it about transporting but my registration pack does.
  #36  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:37 PM
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Kelliot, with all due respect, there is one very important question that you are ignoring:

What were your reasons for not giving your provider permission to transport your son in the event you could not pick up early, especially given the prior information that there would be games the family would want to attend that you would need to leave work for?
  #37  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:41 PM
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and to actually answer your question,

yes, legally your provider was in the wrong.

however, morally, you were too, by not accommodating the provider's right to a life and family and giving her the tools she needed, one way or the other, to adequately meet the needs of both you (her client) and her family.
  #38  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:53 PM
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The provider is in the wrong here, any way you slice it.
As a provider I would NEVER take on a family that refused my consent to transport permission slip - it's actually one of my policies. But in this case the provider took on the family anyway - and even if the mom *said* they would pick up early on games days, that wouldn't have been good enough for me and it shouldn't have been good enough for the provider. Because we know how that story ends
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:55 PM
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I am in CA and the state does not get involved with transportation type stuff./ From what I understand, they do not even check to make sure that we have the right amount of auto insurance to transport children.

they (lic) cannot tell us how to type up or contracts, but they do want for us to have a plan of operation which includes a transportation arrangements.


I think you were both in the wrong for doing business together. If she knew she was going to be going to games, then she should have not taken your child when she knew that you were not going to allow for her to transport him. In my eyes that was wrong on her part. But then also wrong on your part for having him in a place that you knew this was going to happen......

I think you two should come to a mutual understanding and try to work it out.

Can I ask why you don't want your son to be transported?
  #40  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
and to actually answer your question,

yes, legally your provider was in the wrong.

however, morally, you were too, by not accommodating the provider's right to a life and family and giving her the tools she needed, one way or the other, to adequately meet the needs of both you (her client) and her family.
I really think this is unfair to the parent. She agreed to work with the provider on this, but the provider did not give her enough notice. Honestly, the provider is expecting WAY to much IMO.....an occasional early pick up, sure, but a couple of times each week....NO.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:08 PM
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I am in CA and the state does not get involved with transportation type stuff./ From what I understand, they do not even check to make sure that we have the right amount of auto insurance to transport children. It is on the emergency card for the parent to sign if they agree to allow the parent to transport. If that is not signed by the parent then the provder CANNOT transport. If you transport they cann and will check to make sure you have liability insurance to cover transporting children

they (lic) cannot tell us how to type up or contracts, but they do want for us to have a plan of operation which includes a transportation arrangements.


I think you were both in the wrong for doing business together. If she knew she was going to be going to games, then she should have not taken your child when she knew that you were not going to allow for her to transport him. In my eyes that was wrong on her part. But then also wrong on your part for having him in a place that you knew this was going to happen......

I think you two should come to a mutual understanding and try to work it out.

Can I ask why you don't want your son to be transported?
Replied in bold above.

Also........

ALOT of parents do not want their childrent transported. It is a risk that many are not willing to take. I have one family that specifically signed with me orignally because I do not transport (other than the occasional field trip....she wanted to make sure no errand running/family travel, etc) and she could not find a provider who did not transport.

I am not understanding why providers are questioning the parents decision on this????
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:11 PM
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OP.............

You do not have to pay the provider the final fees and I would NOT pay her. I'd be mad as hell if I were you, and I would be letting her know that I would not be paying and she is welcome to take legal action against you.

You had a contract. You never signed giving permission to transport. You had a VERBAL agreement that she would not transport, which WILL hold up in court. She transported anyway, therefore voiding your contractual obligation.

What county are you in?
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:14 PM
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i did not want her to transport my son for my own reasons.. it's a trust thing, and i knew this lady for a month and a half.. i don't just let random people take my child places..especially in vehicles. i do not know her driving record or anything, so for me, it was a no brainer that my child should be kept at the facility at all times.

i understand that she wanted to see her sons games..i don't have a problem with family..as my son is mine and i would do anything i can for him.. but she and her daughter run the daycare and i figured any reasonable person would have maybe left the daughter there for the extra 30 minutes until i could pick him up.

mind you, these games start at 4:30 and i get off work at 5... it's not as if she would have missed the entire game
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:15 PM
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OP.............

You do not have to pay the provider the final fees and I would NOT pay her. I'd be mad as hell if I were you, and I would be letting her know that I would not be paying and she is welcome to take legal action against you.

You had a contract. You never signed giving permission to transport. You had a VERBAL agreement that she would not transport, which WILL hold up in court. She transported anyway, therefore voiding your contractual obligation.

What county are you in?


i am in Tulare county .. CA
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:17 PM
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Kelliot, with all due respect, there is one very important question that you are ignoring:

What were your reasons for not giving your provider permission to transport your son in the event you could not pick up early, especially given the prior information that there would be games the family would want to attend that you would need to leave work for?
Why does this matter? As a parent, I did not want people transporting my child either. Who knows what kind of driver they are, if they speed, get road rage, etc.?

The parent agreed to pick up early for games. However, the provider should have given her ample time to make accomodations to pick her child up early. The provider did not find out at 8:00 at night that her child had a game the next day and she was being very inconsiderate and disrespectful to the parent by giving such short notice. She could have missed the beginning of ONE GAME since the parent was unable to get off of work on time. Additionally, if they had a signed contract saying that her pick up time is 5:30, she doesn't HAVE to accomodate the providers request and can pick her child up at that time. The parent was doing the provider a favor by picking up early and the provider could have given an inch in this instance.

I just don't get why the parent is being questioned about this.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
and to actually answer your question,

yes, legally your provider was in the wrong.

however, morally, you were too, by not accommodating the provider's right to a life and family and giving her the tools she needed, one way or the other, to adequately meet the needs of both you (her client) and her family.
wasn't she in "morally" in the wrong too?.. by not accommodating to my right as a parent to go to work while she watches my son at the times i told her he would be there(my work schedule)? daycare centers are for children that need to be watched while their parent(s) are at work. don't ask the parents to give you their work schedules if it's not something you plan on going by as your schedule as well..... you are there at the parents expense so the parent knows their child is taken care of while they are away.. if you are not going to be reasonable about a 8-5 job, then perhaps you are in the wrong profession
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:24 PM
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Replied in bold above.

Also........

ALOT of parents do not want their childrent transported. It is a risk that many are not willing to take. I have one family that specifically signed with me orignally because I do not transport (other than the occasional field trip....she wanted to make sure no errand running/family travel, etc) and she could not find a provider who did not transport.

I am not understanding why providers are questioning the parents decision on this????
Can you tell me which LIC form states the permission to transport? I have never seen this on the forms.

not trying to argue with you, but I have been doing DC in CA for 10 years in which all 10 years I have transported and never once have I ever been asked by state LIC for any information regarding my auto insurance.

Now I have been asked by LIC if I have insurance in regards to the affidavit regarding liability insurance for family child care home.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:25 PM
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i am in Tulare county .. CA
Here is who you need to call to report this:

Community Care Licensing
770 E. Shaw, Suite 330
Fresno
(559) 445-5700

And, yes, you can and SHOULD report it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:27 PM
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i did not want her to transport my son for my own reasons.. it's a trust thing, and i knew this lady for a month and a half.. i don't just let random people take my child places..especially in vehicles. i do not know her driving record or anything, so for me, it was a no brainer that my child should be kept at the facility at all times.

i understand that she wanted to see her sons games..i don't have a problem with family..as my son is mine and i would do anything i can for him.. but she and her daughter run the daycare and i figured any reasonable person would have maybe left the daughter there for the extra 30 minutes until i could pick him up.

mind you, these games start at 4:30 and i get off work at 5... it's not as if she would have missed the entire game
I completely understand where you are coming from. I was just curious why. It sounds like there was some communication break down some where.

I agree with you that what she did was wrong. I would also be mad if someone did something that they knew that I was not ok with. The fact alone she knew you were not ok with it from the start is what baffles me. If the provider knew this, then she should have said, sorry it does not seem like we are a good fit for each other, because I will need to transport your child in order for me to attend my sons games....

Sorry you are going through this....
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:29 PM
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Can you tell me which LIC form states the permission to transport? I have never seen this on the forms.

not trying to argue with you, but I have been doing DC in CA for 10 years in which all 10 years I have transported and never once have I ever been asked by state LIC for any information regarding my auto insurance.

Now I have been asked by LIC if I have insurance in regards to the affidavit regarding liability insurance for family child care home.
It is on the back of the emergency card. It specifically states:

I Give__________________ And/or his/her adult assistant caregivers permission to take my child on field trips as part of the Family Child Care Home program. Some of these trips may be by car. Seat belts and.or carseats will be used.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:30 PM
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It is on the emergency card for the parent to sign if they agree to allow the parent to transport. If that is not signed by the parent then the provider CANNOT transport. If you transport they can and will check to make sure you have liability insurance to cover transporting children


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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
Replied in bold above.

Also........

ALOT of parents do not want their childrent transported. It is a risk that many are not willing to take. I have one family that specifically signed with me orignally because I do not transport (other than the occasional field trip....she wanted to make sure no errand running/family travel, etc) and she could not find a provider who did not transport.

I am not understanding why providers are questioning the parents decision on this????
Sorry about hijacking this thread...I understand things continually change in CA. However, I just had licensing come out to my home last July and told me nothing about this emergency card with transportation info.

The licensing forms I was advised and given copies of are the following:
Lic 700 Identification and Emergency Information
Lic 9150 Receipt of Parent Notification
Lic 995A Acknowledgement of Parent's Rights
Lic 627 Consent for Medical Treatment
Immunization records- Blue card

None of these have anything pertaining to authorizing transportation. I have had licensing ask about whether I transport and even had them have to wait till I came home from picking up kids at school, so it has been discussed numerous times by various licensing analysts.

I totally understand both sides of this issue. I personally would have never have agreed to take a family that would not allow me to transport their child and years ago, I have had families decide not to use me when I advised them I took kids to and from school.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:31 PM
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wasn't she in "morally" in the wrong too?.. by not accommodating to my right as a parent to go to work while she watches my son at the times i told her he would be there(my work schedule)? daycare centers are for children that need to be watched while their parent(s) are at work. don't ask the parents to give you their work schedules if it's not something you plan on going by as your schedule as well..... you are there at the parents expense so the parent knows their child is taken care of while they are away.. if you are not going to be reasonable about a 8-5 job, then perhaps you are in the wrong profession
I agree.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:31 PM
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So, you were told that your son needed to be picked up by 4, and did not pick him up. Many daycare centers would have called Social Services when you did not pick up your son when the daycare closed for the day (at 4). Instead, this woman just took your son with her to her family event. You should thank her for continuing to care for your son AFTER her business closed for the day. I know a non-profit center in my town that gives you 15 minutes after pickup time to pick up your child (at $5 per minute), after 15 minutes, the Child Protection Officers arrive to pick up your child.

If you had a problem with transport, in my opinion, you should have enrolled your child somewhere that did NOT want permission to do so. I understand your frustration that you feel your wishes were ignored, but you should not have assumed that failing to sign a permission slip conveyed your wishes, nor that it was acceptance by the provider of your wishes.

I am no attorney, but I would guess that since you gave no notice, you're going to be sued for 4 weeks tuition, and will probably lose.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:31 PM
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It is on the back of the emergency card. It specifically states:

I Give__________________ And/or his/her adult assistant caregivers permission to take my child on field trips as part of the Family Child Care Home program. Some of these trips may be by car. Seat belts and.or carseats will be used.
It's definitely NOT on anything my licensing analyst gave me last summer!
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:32 PM
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It is on the emergency card for the parent to sign if they agree to allow the parent to transport. If that is not signed by the parent then the provider CANNOT transport. If you transport they can and will check to make sure you have liability insurance to cover transporting children




Sorry about hijacking this thread...I understand things continually change in CA. However, I just had licensing come out to my home last July and told me nothing about this emergency card with transportation info.

The licensing forms I was advised and given copies of are the following:
Lic 700 Identification and Emergency Information
Lic 9150 Receipt of Parent Notification
Lic 995A Acknowledgement of Parent's Rights
Lic 627 Consent for Medical Treatment
Immunization records- Blue card

None of these have anything pertaining to authorizing transportation. I have had licensing ask about whether I transport and even had them have to wait till I came home from picking up kids at school, so it has been discussed numerous times by various licensing analysts.

I totally understand both sides of this issue. I personally would have never have agreed to take a family that would not allow me to transport their child and years ago, I have had families decide not to use me when I advised them I took kids to and from school.
It is on the back of the emergency card. It is called "field trip authorization" If that is not signed by the parent, then the provider CANNOT transport the child, period. I have been doing this for 16 years and it has been there since the day I started.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:33 PM
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It is on the back of the emergency card. It specifically states:

I Give__________________ And/or his/her adult assistant caregivers permission to take my child on field trips as part of the Family Child Care Home program. Some of these trips may be by car. Seat belts and.or carseats will be used.
Ok, now you have me worried I am missing something here in my files....(btw, I just had an inspection last month and passed with flying colors)

I am looking at all forms from state. LIC 702 and LIC 700. I do not see on either one where it says anything about the permission to transport or not...

Sorry to go off track, but I think that this is important for us all to know....
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:35 PM
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It is on the emergency card for the parent to sign if they agree to allow the parent to transport. If that is not signed by the parent then the provider CANNOT transport. If you transport they can and will check to make sure you have liability insurance to cover transporting children




Sorry about hijacking this thread...I understand things continually change in CA. However, I just had licensing come out to my home last July and told me nothing about this emergency card with transportation info.

The licensing forms I was advised and given copies of are the following:
Lic 700 Identification and Emergency Information
Lic 9150 Receipt of Parent Notification
Lic 995A Acknowledgement of Parent's Rights
Lic 627 Consent for Medical Treatment
Immunization records- Blue card

None of these have anything pertaining to authorizing transportation. I have had licensing ask about whether I transport and even had them have to wait till I came home from picking up kids at school, so it has been discussed numerous times by various licensing analysts.

I totally understand both sides of this issue. I personally would have never have agreed to take a family that would not allow me to transport their child and years ago, I have had families decide not to use me when I advised them I took kids to and from school.
Ditto on this.....perhaps things may differ by county???
  #58  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
Replied in bold above.

Also........

ALOT of parents do not want their childrent transported. It is a risk that many are not willing to take. I have one family that specifically signed with me orignally because I do not transport (other than the occasional field trip....she wanted to make sure no errand running/family travel, etc) and she could not find a provider who did not transport.

I am not understanding why providers are questioning the parents decision on this????
I'm sorry Crystal, I'm not in any way trying to argue with you here ... just trying to understand what you are saying. Are you talking about LIC 700? Identification and Emergency Information form - the part that says "NAMES OF PERSONS AUTHORIZED TO TAKE CHILD FROM THE FACILITY
(CHILD WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE WITH ANY OTHER PERSON WITHOUT WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION FROM PARENT OR AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE)"

I am asking because when I have been to licensing meetings or spoken to my licensor it was never discussed to use the form in this way. The way that I understood it was that people that were friends/family of the client were to be written there in the LIC 700 form and that for liability purposes if we wanted to transport children then we should have a separate form signed for this. I was even given a generic form from licensing in a packet that we could use (like a sample).

This is interesting if I can simply have all of my clients add my name to the Emergency Information card and that would be sufficient ... it would make it less of a hassle for me than having a separate form. I'll check with my office, this is great to know.

As to OP, I think that it is very negligent of the provider to take the child without written consent. The provider did not have written consent to take the child with her and regardless of whether the parent forgot to sign it or did not sign it on purpose you have to go by what is written. If the contract says nothing about what would happen if they do not sign a consent form then the provider could possibly be held in contempt of contract because the parent did not sign a form. (my contract says that a transportation consent form is required and if one is not signed and we need to use vehicle transportation then the parent can choose to not have the child attend for the day with no credit for the absence), I am assuming that no such clause exists in the contract.

Why have a form if you are not going to enforce the signing of it? Even if the provider made the parent aware and uses a consent to transport form if the parent does not sign it then the provider can't take the child off of the premises. If the provider requires one to be signed and the parent does not then it is the responsibility of the provider to make sure that one is signed BEFORE they remove the child from the property or, if the parent refuses to sign one, terminate the contract.

Providers, think if it this way: You have a consent form to take photos that you give to all clients so that you can take photos and use them as advertising on FB, your website etc. One client doesn't sign the form, just leaves it blank but never discusses with you that he/she feels uncomfortable with you taking photos and sharing them etc. No discussion is held. You don't know if the parent doesn't like the idea or if the client just simply forgot. The form remains blank. Does that make it ok for you to take photos of the child anyway and use them for advertisement?

If I had a client that I did not make sure that I had a consent form signed for and I had an important function to go to or field trip and no signed form and the parent of that child was unable to leave work in time to get the child before we left ... it's my fault and I'd be stuck having to stay with the child until the child got picked up. I would never leave the house with another person's child without written consent. I would however be peeved (at myself and probably at the parent if I had spoken to the parent previously about having the form signed) but I would not take the child. The next day I'd have the parent sign the consent form or give a termination notice.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:38 PM
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So, you were told that your son needed to be picked up by 4, and did not pick him up. Many daycare centers would have called Social Services when you did not pick up your son when the daycare closed for the day (at 4). Instead, this woman just took your son with her to her family event. You should thank her for continuing to care for your son AFTER her business closed for the day. I know a non-profit center in my town that gives you 15 minutes after pickup time to pick up your child (at $5 per minute), after 15 minutes, the Child Protection Officers arrive to pick up your child.

If you had a problem with transport, in my opinion, you should have enrolled your child somewhere that did NOT want permission to do so. I understand your frustration that you feel your wishes were ignored, but you should not have assumed that failing to sign a permission slip conveyed your wishes, nor that it was acceptance by the provider of your wishes.

I am no attorney, but I would guess that since you gave no notice, you're going to be sued for 4 weeks tuition, and will probably lose.
in the parents defense, I don't think it was ok for the provider to give a one day advance notice that pick up needed to take place at an earlier time than normal.

I also do not think it was ok for the provider to take the child to the game knowing that the mother did not want her child transported.

If she was a good provider, she would have had her daughter stay with the child or she herself would have stayed with him.

I do agree that they should not have gone into a daycare arrangement together because this was an issue from the start....
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:41 PM
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If I had a client that I did not make sure that I had a consent form signed for and I had an important function to go to or field trip and no signed form and the parent of that child was unable to leave work in time to get the child before we left ... it's my fault and I'd be stuck having to stay with the child until the child got picked up. I would never leave the house with another person's child without written consent. I would however be peeved (at myself and probably at the parent if I had spoken to the parent previously about having the form signed) but I would not take the child. The next day I'd have the parent sign the consent form or give a termination notice

DItton on what MV said
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:44 PM
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More confusion from the state of california, of course.

Anybody from California interested in conducting a research study with me on the inconsistencies of licensing regulations/procedures?????
  #62  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:49 PM
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everything was not great.. my son like her, yes.. but i wasn't %100 happy with her at any point in time.. the fees were ridiculous and it just seemed as if mine, or any of the kids for that matter, were a burden to her on any given day. the day i checked out her daycare(because i know how daycare centers are with sick kids) i told her that pretty much ever since my son was born he has had a runny nose which his physician said was allergies and nothing to be concerned about..she replied to that statement with "as long as it's not green it's okay. green means they have an infection"... about 3 weeks ago she sent me a message stating "contagious or not, if your child has allergies and you don't want them on medication then they need to stay home...ash and i have spend the last week cleaning noses and everything that snot can be smeared on. call your pediatrician and they can tell you what would be best to take"...... if i would have taken him out then(my physician-who i'm sure knows more about toddler health issures than she does, said that he does not need medication) would i still be legally binded to the contract since she technically was the one who told me not to bring him?
I'm a little confused by this? Most providers make the decision as to whether the child is allowed to attend based on symptoms they see not a Doctor. Are you looking for another way to get out of the contract? It would depend on what it says regarding this.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:50 PM
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More confusion from the state of california, of course.

Anybody from California interested in conducting a research study with me on the inconsistencies of licensing regulations/procedures?????
lol I dont think I have that long to live....hahahahhaha
  #64  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:51 PM
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More confusion from the state of california, of course.

Anybody from California interested in conducting a research study with me on the inconsistencies of licensing regulations/procedures?????
So does that mean that not all counties have this permission form?

I can't imagine that the rules for childcares are not the same from county to county in one state.

We have one book (per type of childcare) for the entire state that covers rules and regulations.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:53 PM
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So does that mean that not all counties have this permission form?

I can't imagine that the rules for childcares are not the same from county to county in one state.

We have one book (per type of childcare) for the entire state that covers rules and regulations.
California is TERRIBLY inconsistent with regs.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:54 PM
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So does that mean that not all counties have this permission form?

I can't imagine that the rules for childcares are not the same from county to county in one state.

We have one book (per type of childcare) for the entire state that covers rules and regulations.
California, the land of the fruits and the nuts....who knows....lol

my family says to me all the time that ca is so crazy and that nothing ever makes sense to them at all when it comes to this state. Guess CA didn't want to discriminate on their ability to confuse so they made sure DC LIC can confuse us too....lol
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:57 PM
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California is TERRIBLY inconsistent with regs.
So maybe this provider wasn't out of her regs with taking the child?

Its funny one provider on here is talking about a transport slip and three others have no idea.

So in the end it sounds like everyone is right on the regs because its so vastly different.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:00 PM
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I know this thread has TONS of info but what I have gotten so far (beside the fact that California child care laws are super confusing)

The provider obviously felt she needed a form for permission to transport or the OP wouldn't have said she did not sign it. So that tells me the provider KNOWS she is suppose to ask permission BEFORE transporting.

The provider went against the parents wishes. Wishes the provider agreed to by enrolling the child without the permission slip signed

Provider FAILED to give what any one of us would consider advance notice for early closing.

The parent has every right in the world to remove her child from an environment she no longer feels safe in.

The parent should NOT have to pay the final 4 weeks of the notice period because the agreement (as a WHOLE) for services was voided when the PROVIDER decided to do something that she did NOT have permission to do.

ANY one of us would remove our own child from a situation in which we did not trust the caregiver to do as she originally agreed to.....which was NOT transport the child.

I am surprised at the number of posters who are laying blame on the parent here
  #69  
Old 04-24-2013, 03:03 PM
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Why does this matter? As a parent, I did not want people transporting my child either. Who knows what kind of driver they are, if they speed, get road rage, etc.?

I just don't get why the parent is being questioned about this.
Honestly it was because the parent had refused to address the question that had been asked several times before. This is a typical trademark of a troll, to ignore critical questions. I restated it in order to get a better feel if this was a troll. We've been getting a lot of things that feel/smell/ARE trollish, so I was curious. At least, it seems like a lot to me.

Why pick on me, anyway?
  #70  
Old 04-24-2013, 03:14 PM
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More confusion from the state of california, of course.

Anybody from California interested in conducting a research study with me on the inconsistencies of licensing regulations/procedures?????
Count me in!!! I say let's do something about it. CA is kind of ridiculous .

Off Topic: I just realized last week than most licenses issued within the last 10 years (approximately) have the ratio regs written as (for max 8 kids) 2 infants, 1 child in Kindergarten and one at least age 6 while provider that have licenses that were issued before that have their licenses say 2 infants and TWO kids at least age 6. Also I was told that a child in transitional kindergarten counted as a kindergartener and that if a child was enrolled in transitional Kinder or regular Kinder but not yet attending (like the summer before they start school) they did not count as SA kids. Another provider (same region, same county, different city) had licensing tell her that transitional kinder didn't count but that as long as a child was enrolled in kinder then the summer before they started he would count as a SA .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I know this thread has TONS of info but what I have gotten so far (beside the fact that California child care laws are super confusing)

The provider obviously felt she needed a form for permission to transport or the OP wouldn't have said she did not sign it. So that tells me the provider KNOWS she is suppose to ask permission BEFORE transporting.

The provider went against the parents wishes. Wishes the provider agreed to by enrolling the child without the permission slip signed

Provider FAILED to give what any one of us would consider advance notice for early closing.

The parent has every right in the world to remove her child from an environment she no longer feels safe in.

The parent should NOT have to pay the final 4 weeks of the notice period because the agreement (as a WHOLE) for services was voided when the PROVIDER decided to do something that she did NOT have permission to do.

ANY one of us would remove our own child from a situation in which we did not trust the caregiver to do as she originally agreed to.....which was NOT transport the child.

I am surprised at the number of posters who are laying blame on the parent here
I agree here with all aspects 100%. If I had been in OP's situation as the provider I would not be surprised if the parent pulled their child immediately and I would not make the parent pay for the termination notice. It just seems irresponsible and unprofessional to me.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:24 PM
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i started my son at a new daycare in february. he liked it. this was a license facility located at the owners home. it was her and her daughter that ran the daycare together. altogether there are 4 of them in the family, one of which is a highschool boy who plays baseball. all members of this family refuse to miss any of his baseball games if they are located in town. at the start of my son attending they had me sign a contract and included a permission slip for transportation of my son to these baseball games if i could not pick him up before the game-i did NOT sign it. i work 8am-5pm everyday and the games start at 4:30 in which she said, at the time of signing up, that she would let me know the dates of these games. this week she had sent me a text message at 8PM the night BEFORE a baseball game telling me i had to leave work early the next day and pick up my son by 4pm so they could go to their game. with such short notice i was not able to leave work and she took my son to the game with her without my permission! so a couple questions..

is that even legal?

i immediately removed him from her daycare and he will not be going back because of what she did.. in her contract is states that she needs 4week notice and to be paid for that 4 weeks, but because she broke that part of the contract, do i still need to pay her?

can she send me to collections and have ground to stand on for payment?
It sounds like the provider was completely wrong here. She had no right to transport your child without permission.

I wouldn't pay and take my chances that she might win in court....if it even goes that far. However, if you owe her for any care she has already given then, of course, she needs to be paid for that.

Laurel
  #72  
Old 04-24-2013, 03:38 PM
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I am in CA and the state does not get involved with transportation type stuff./ From what I understand, they do not even check to make sure that we have the right amount of auto insurance to transport children.

they (lic) cannot tell us how to type up or contracts, but they do want for us to have a plan of operation which includes a transportation arrangements.


I think you were both in the wrong for doing business together. If she knew she was going to be going to games, then she should have not taken your child when she knew that you were not going to allow for her to transport him. In my eyes that was wrong on her part. But then also wrong on your part for having him in a place that you knew this was going to happen......

I think you two should come to a mutual understanding and try to work it out.

Can I ask why you don't want your son to be transported?

This so true... Even licensing told me that we as providers we don't need to inform the patent if we are transporting the children. I do anyways cause you never know what can happen, parents still have right to sue us for basically anything they want but will they win???

I think this isn't a huge reason to terminate immediately I understand op is upset but since she did choose to term Immediately she is responsible for payment. She agreed and signed a contract stating that.

I know that less than 24 hours notice isn't enough time but at that point I would of made every effort to pick him up early or arrange someone else to pick him up.

So yes, I would continue taking dcb to daycare but give the 4-week notice.
  #73  
Old 04-24-2013, 03:46 PM
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More confusion from the state of california, of course.

Anybody from California interested in conducting a research study with me on the inconsistencies of licensing regulations/procedures?????
I'm all for this!
  #74  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:06 PM
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It is on the back of the emergency card. It is called "field trip authorization" If that is not signed by the parent, then the provider CANNOT transport the child, period. I have been doing this for 16 years and it has been there since the day I started.
I am baffled?!? There is NO emergency "card" in CA that I have ever been given or seen! What is the number on this, so I can look it up. The Identification and Emergency Information "form" is LIC 700 and has NO back side! Am I in the twilight zone???? I have been doing this since 1986 and this is news to me!

Last edited by mom2many; 04-24-2013 at 04:07 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:17 PM
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I am baffled?!? There is NO emergency "card" in CA that I have ever been given or seen! What is the number on this, so I can look it up. The Identification and Emergency Information "form" is LIC 700 and has NO back side! Am I in the twilight zone???? I have been doing this since 1986 and this is news to me!
Lic and regulations do not regulate anything to do with transportation at all. There is NOTHING in title 22 that covers transporting children for any reason at any time.

However, if you are transporting in CA, you must follow of the rules of the CA state laws in regards to transporting children and infants.....
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:30 PM
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This so reminds me of the sunscreen thread from last week!

How some thought one thing, others thought another.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:46 PM
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Lic and regulations do not regulate anything to do with transportation at all. There is NOTHING in title 22 that covers transporting children for any reason at any time.

However, if you are transporting in CA, you must follow of the rules of the CA state laws in regards to transporting children and infants.....
I just got this confirmed with my licensing analyst. This is EXACTLY what she said as well.

I was concerned b/c Crystal claimed there was a form for this and I had never heard or seen it. Because I do transport to and from school this was extremely important to me to get the facts straight!

In regards to the OP, I understand why you are upset. I would NEVER have transported a child w/o a parent giving me permission to do so. However, since CA does not have any kind of written consent forms regarding transportation and as long as the provider used the proper car seat and followed the CA laws regarding using them, licensing will not have a reason to cite her per Title 22 regs.

I hope you will be able to find a new daycare that better fits your needs.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:51 PM
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I just got this confirmed with my licensing analyst. This is EXACTLY what she said as well.

I was concerned b/c Crystal claimed there was a form for this and I had never heard or seen it. Because I do transport to and from school this was extremely important to me to get the facts straight!

In regards to the OP, I understand why you are upset. I would NEVER have transported a child w/o a parent giving me permission to do so. However, since CA does not have any kind of written consent forms regarding transportation and as long as the provider used the proper car seat and followed the CA laws regarding using them, licensing will not have a reason to cite her per Title 22 regs.

I hope you will be able to find a new daycare that better fits your needs.
So what form is Crystal using through the state I wonder?
  #79  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:53 PM
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In regards to the OP, I understand why you are upset. I would NEVER have transported a child w/o a parent giving me permission to do so. However, since CA does not have any kind of written consent forms regarding transportation and as long as the provider used the proper car seat and followed the CA laws regarding using them, licensing will not have a reason to cite her per Title 22 regs. .
The provider may not be in trouble with licensing but the provider still voided her own contract by doing something that she KNEW the parent would not be okay with or had given permission for.

In my opinion, I think that releases the parent from any contractual agreement to pay for or give a 4 week notice.

I think the parent still has the right to remove her child from somewhere she no longer trusted as a safe environment and in those circumstances should not be forced to pay for services she couldn't realistically use.

NO ONE in in there right mind would leave their child somewhere they thought was a safety risk.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:54 PM
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Crystal, you have something that I have never heard of, either. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just not in any of the forms I've ever been given.

When I first started 29 yrs ago, we received all of our forms on pad form directly from licensing. We didn't have to download the forms from their website. The analysts brought them to us.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:58 PM
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As a provider, I would never have taken the child in the first place. I make it VERY PLAIN from the interview on that I do not stay home all day. That we frequently go on outings at the last minute. Most of the time, I try to notify parents in advance, but if I'm taking a quick trip to the grocery store or out to lunch, I don't always notify the parents. Sometimes we walk to the park, sometimes we drive.

I have the parents sign a waiver up front. I would not take the child if they were to refuse.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:01 PM
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The provider may not be in trouble with licensing but the provider still voided her own contract by doing something that she KNEW the parent would not be okay with or had given permission for.

In my opinion, I think that releases the parent from any contractual agreement to pay for or give a 4 week notice.

I think the parent still has the right to remove her child from somewhere she no longer trusted as a safe environment and in those circumstances should not be forced to pay for services she couldn't realistically use.

NO ONE in in there right mind would leave their child somewhere they thought was a safety risk.
It only voids it IF the permission slip was PART of the contract.

I'm wondering if all the other parents picked up or let the children be transported?
  #83  
Old 04-24-2013, 05:04 PM
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This so reminds me of the sunscreen thread from last week!

How some thought one thing, others thought another.
Good 'Ol CA!

A little bit ago when I had licensing on the phone in regards to the transportation, I did ask her about the whole sunscreen issue as well... She ACTUALLY had to put me on hold to ask her supervisor, b/c she wasn't sure!

She said that centers need permission to apply, but FCH do NOT. I think that the instructor was just confused when she told us it applied to everyone. I learned my lesson...a simple call to licensing puts my mind at ease.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:07 PM
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So what form is Crystal using through the state I wonder?
Idk...I was told it does NOT exist! A provider can write up her own release authorization form, but the State could care less. It is not in our regs.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:09 PM
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yes i did.. in fact, she texted me and said that i did not approve transportation therefore i would need to pick him up early.. and it was the DAY OF the game in which case i could not just tell my boss i wanted to leave
So after you get this text saying you need to pick him up early... what did you do??? Did you try to have an adult conversation/explanation with this provider...Or you just stayed passive waiting to see how far could you push your personal interests over this provider's personal life!!

Now, if this provider, as many others, had to give you a short notice due to her own illness... would you just ignore it the same way??!!! Do you really do not have a back up plan for these situations?????! ...or you just intentionally decided to not use it this time !!!

The provider was in the wrong... but I'm getting the impression that also this parent is intentionally trying to push this providers buttons and just used this event as an opportunity!

This seems to me more like a power struggle of "who's the boss" and it is so sad to see one parent jeopardizing his child safety and a provider jeopardizing her license for such a childish behavior!
  #86  
Old 04-24-2013, 05:15 PM
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The provider may not be in trouble with licensing but the provider still voided her own contract by doing something that she KNEW the parent would not be okay with or had given permission for.

In my opinion, I think that releases the parent from any contractual agreement to pay for or give a 4 week notice.

I think the parent still has the right to remove her child from somewhere she no longer trusted as a safe environment and in those circumstances should not be forced to pay for services she couldn't realistically use.

NO ONE in in there right mind would leave their child somewhere they thought was a safety risk.
I totally agree with you! I would be furious if I was the OP.

I always make sure I get a parent's permission before I ever transport anyone and in most cases, they even provide their own car seats.

I also feel the contract was broken, when she failed to get permission and transported this child knowing the mom had not approved of it. I totally understand her issues with this and do not think she owes the provider anything!

This was not a good fit all the way around.
  #87  
Old 04-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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Good 'Ol CA!

A little bit ago when I had licensing on the phone in regards to the transportation, I did ask her about the whole sunscreen issue as well... She ACTUALLY had to put me on hold to ask her supervisor, b/c she wasn't sure!

She said that centers need permission to apply, but FCH do NOT. I think that the instructor was just confused when she told us it applied to everyone. I learned my lesson...a simple call to licensing puts my mind at ease.
sorry to Hijack this, but one thing that I do know for sure is that I have called the duty officer of the day only to be told something completely different than what I was told by my annalist then to have a manger call me back and tell me something completely different. CA stinks on making things CLEAR...
  #88  
Old 04-24-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
The provider may not be in trouble with licensing but the provider still voided her own contract by doing something that she KNEW the parent would not be okay with or had given permission for.

In my opinion, I think that releases the parent from any contractual agreement to pay for or give a 4 week notice.

I think the parent still has the right to remove her child from somewhere she no longer trusted as a safe environment and in those circumstances should not be forced to pay for services she couldn't realistically use.

NO ONE in in there right mind would leave their child somewhere they thought was a safety risk.


Laurel
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:37 PM
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I don't understand why this provider ever accepted this family....

If the games were important to her and her family and this mom refused to sign the transportation form holy asking for hairy business there.

Why didn't mom address the text?

Why didn't provider ask at drop off that day what the plan would be after getting no.response to the text?

Why did she ever allow the drop off that morning without an agreed upon plan?


I would have required the transportation form if it was that important to me, and if I hadn't secured that form or got some response from mom when I notified her of the game I'd have never let her leave him in care that day......
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:49 PM
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I don't understand why this provider ever accepted this family....

If the games were important to her and her family and this mom refused to sign the transportation form holy asking for hairy business there.

Why didn't mom address the text?

Why didn't provider ask at drop off that day what the plan would be after getting no.response to the text?

Why did she ever allow the drop off that morning without an agreed upon plan?


I would have required the transportation form if it was that important to me, and if I hadn't secured that form or got some response from mom when I notified her of the game I'd have never let her leave him in care that day......
Willow, I am a little confused on this too, its hard to get things across sometimes when posting.

I agree, I dont understand why they entered into a business agreement together when it was clear from the start that they were NOT on the same page....
  #91  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:59 PM
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I don't understand why this provider ever accepted this family....

If the games were important to her and her family and this mom refused to sign the transportation form holy asking for hairy business there.

Why didn't mom address the text?

Why didn't provider ask at drop off that day what the plan would be after getting no.response to the text?

Why did she ever allow the drop off that morning without an agreed upon plan?


I would have required the transportation form if it was that important to me, and if I hadn't secured that form or got some response from mom when I notified her of the game I'd have never let her leave him in care that day......
I agree with this, too.

To the OP: Before you decide whether you will or won't pay this provider for the notice period you need to talk with an attorney and have him or her review whatever you signed in the first place before you end up on the receiving end of a lawsuit that may very well cost you hundreds of dollars in fees, costs and attorneys fees.

I personally have a contract that would be totally enforceable in this situation and I wouldn't hesitate to sue you to collect.

FWIW I think this provider was wrong to transport your child without your written permission, and I think you were wrong for enrolling your child with a provider who clearly did not mesh well with your values.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:22 PM
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Wanted to add, there is no shame is accepting assistance if it gives you the ability to select a provider you feel is a better fit for your child. Please don't sacrifice quality or peace of mind for your pride.

It's there to help people just like you and your son OP. Many of us have been there and would never ever judge.
  #93  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:41 PM
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Idk...I was told it does NOT exist! A provider can write up her own release authorization form, but the State could care less. It is not in our regs.
Well it definitely exists, I use it with every family and have since I started.unsupervised to me by my licensing agency. I will try to scan it absolutist tomorrow when I have some free time.

So weird.....I just don't understand how it can be so different from county to county. Very irritating.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:58 PM
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OP.......I would still report it to licensing.....let it be up to them if there are any legalities regarding transporting without your authorization
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:07 PM
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OP.......I would still report it to licensing.....let it be up to them if there are any legalities regarding transporting without your authorization
agree, just because we know that they don't regulate this type of thing does not mean that you still should not try to have it investigated.

Also, I agree with willow....if you can get some assistance to help place your child in a better place, please try and do that.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:22 PM
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Why does this matter? As a parent, I did not want people transporting my child either. Who knows what kind of driver they are, if they speed, get road rage, etc.?

The parent agreed to pick up early for games. However, the provider should have given her ample time to make accomodations to pick her child up early. The provider did not find out at 8:00 at night that her child had a game the next day and she was being very inconsiderate and disrespectful to the parent by giving such short notice. She could have missed the beginning of ONE GAME since the parent was unable to get off of work on time. Additionally, if they had a signed contract saying that her pick up time is 5:30, she doesn't HAVE to accomodate the providers request and can pick her child up at that time. The parent was doing the provider a favor by picking up early and the provider could have given an inch in this instance.

I just don't get why the parent is being questioned about this.
thank you for your defense!.. i did say that the games were mentioned in the contract, however, she never gave a schedule of them or anything and the notice to my work was my biggest issue. i called the licensing office today and they said she did nothing wrong which i don't get, obviously.. i am still going to contact a lawyer and file a complaint.. something has to be done.. why even give a permission slip if it's irrelevant to what you're going to go by?!??
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:28 PM
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Willow, I am a little confused on this too, its hard to get things across sometimes when posting.

I agree, I dont understand why they entered into a business agreement together when it was clear from the start that they were NOT on the same page....
the fact that we were not on the same page has nothing to do with it.. the main issue i had with her is the amount of time she had given me as notice. LESS than 24 hours before the game was to start. as i stated, i have to turn in request forms to my boss for time off.. had she given me time to do that none of this would even be being talked about..i would have gladly worked with her on early pickups if she would have been reasonable with notice.. these baseball games began in february, i am sure sometime before this week a schedule was given to her that in turn should have been given to us parents.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:37 PM
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So after you get this text saying you need to pick him up early... what did you do??? Did you try to have an adult conversation/explanation with this provider...Or you just stayed passive waiting to see how far could you push your personal interests over this provider's personal life!!

Now, if this provider, as many others, had to give you a short notice due to her own illness... would you just ignore it the same way??!!! Do you really do not have a back up plan for these situations?????! ...or you just intentionally decided to not use it this time !!!

The provider was in the wrong... but I'm getting the impression that also this parent is intentionally trying to push this providers buttons and just used this event as an opportunity!

This seems to me more like a power struggle of "who's the boss" and it is so sad to see one parent jeopardizing his child safety and a provider jeopardizing her license for such a childish behavior!
#1. i had texted her FIRST that day stating that my boss said i could not leave earlier than 4:30..4:30 is the time the baseball game started, she could have missed the first 10 minutes..
#2. an illness is quite different in my eyes as i am sure most people feel that way. EVERYTIME my son got an illness there i left work and was able to pick him up...this was not an emergency
#3.i am a SINGLE mother.. my parents are divorced and my father moved to another state, so no, i do not have back up sitters i can just call on a whim. the ONLY family i have within 300 miles of me is my mother, who mind you, works 12 hours a day and owns a business-perhaps i don't need to explain to you that she cannot just leave work when she feels like it...?
#4 i am telling my side of the story and answering the questions asked. you do not know me outside of this forum so keeping your judgement to yourself would be appreciated
  #99  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:39 PM
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daycare daycare is offline
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I understand where you are coming from, I don't agree she was right for what she did. It's hard to sometimes get a clear picture when you are reading the post

As a provider, I would have never taken You on as a client knowing you would not allow me to transport your child. We just would not be a good fit. You have every right to not want your child transported.

She gave you a very short notice which i dobt think wAs fair but I'm confused you said that you knew she needed to leave early but you still didn't arrange to pick up your child when needed. Does she have in her contract that you are responsible for providing back up care for days that she may take off???

I'm not trying to go against you at all....just trying to see where she may be able to get away with what she did.

Last edited by daycare; 04-24-2013 at 10:41 PM.
  #100  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:50 PM
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kelliott kelliott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca View Post
I'm a little confused by this? Most providers make the decision as to whether the child is allowed to attend based on symptoms they see not a Doctor. Are you looking for another way to get out of the contract? It would depend on what it says regarding this.
I AM NOT JUST "LOOKING FOR A WAY OUT"...if/when i am in the wrong i will admit and take full responsibility for it..in this case, i do not feel that i am wrong. i told her BEFORE my son enrolled that he has had a runny nose for years and she said it was not a problem as long as it is not green... why should my son stay home and me miss work just because she's too lazy to go get a tissue..??


AND UNRELATED TO THIS POST I THOUGHT I WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR: i DID technically sign the permission slip for transport right below the box i checked stating i was NOT okay with her transporting him off the premises.. it's not like i just ignored it.. she knew i had seen it because i signed it..and she also saw and noted i did not allow it
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