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morgan24 03:49 PM 02-14-2014
Would it be okay to charge someone more because they don't want their child to eat grains or drink cows milk? The way she wants her child to eat will not meet the requirements for the food program and Dcm has been hinting she might want to supply dcgs food. I haven't talked about it with her because I've been thinking about it. I don't really want to have just one bring different food because it causes too many problems. I am tier one and its around $85.00 a month that I get per child.
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Cradle2crayons 04:27 PM 02-14-2014
Originally Posted by morgan24:
Would it be okay to charge someone more because they don't want their child to eat grains or drink cows milk? The way she wants her child to eat will not meet the requirements for the food program and Dcm has been hinting she might want to supply dcgs food. I haven't talked about it with her because I've been thinking about it. I don't really want to have just one bring different food because it causes too many problems. I am tier one and its around $85.00 a month that I get per child.
Wait... No grains?? What does she substitute for grains?? I would have mom provide the milk for the child and I would feed all children the same. I will adapt a meal around food intolerances or allergies but I'm not removing a main component without a dr order. And I don't give kids different foods than the others unless here is a dr. Note.
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morgan24 04:49 PM 02-14-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Wait... No grains?? What does she substitute for grains?? I would have mom provide the milk for the child and I would feed all children the same. I will adapt a meal around food intolerances or allergies but I'm not removing a main component without a dr order. And I don't give kids different foods than the others unless here is a dr. Note.
Yep, no grains and the milk will be raw goats milk. She doesn't substitute anything she is choosing not to feed grains to her. She will be a year old in March. I don't want her to bring her own food. If I serve her everything but the grains her meal does not meet the fp requirement. I'm thinking about not claiming her on the fp and having dcm pay me what I lose from not claiming her and not letting her bring in her food. Does that sound fair?
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nanglgrl 05:13 PM 02-14-2014
I'm not sure that the food program would be ok with that. I thought everyone in your daycare has to be enrolled in the food program and they all have to be served the same thing unless there is a medical reason. I know when they do my visits they make sure everyone present is enrolled but it could just be local.
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preschoolteacher 06:26 PM 02-14-2014
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I'm not sure that the food program would be ok with that. I thought everyone in your daycare has to be enrolled in the food program and they all have to be served the same thing unless there is a medical reason. I know when they do my visits they make sure everyone present is enrolled but it could just be local.
It's national. If you're on the food program, every kid must get the required food or have a doctors note.
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morgan24 07:03 PM 02-14-2014
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
It's national. If you're on the food program, every kid must get the required food or have a doctors note.
All my years on the food program and I did not know that. This is the first time I have ever had someone who doesn't want to do any type of grains or cows milk as a personal choice. Thanks for the info.
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Leanna 07:22 PM 02-14-2014
No grains? Not even whole grains like whole wheat, brown rice, quinoa, etc.? Children are not adults. They need the carbohydrates that are in healthy whole grains for energy and growth.
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nanglgrl 07:30 PM 02-14-2014
I would suggest you call your sponsor. I had a family that was vegetarian for religious reasons and they made an exception. I think that's just because our food program ladies are really nice and understanding though.
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CraftyMom 07:51 PM 02-14-2014
I'm not sure they HAVE to be on the food program just because you use it. Of course I'm not positive, all my parents like the food program, no one has ever refused.

The parents have to sign that they are allowing their child to participate. I think when the food program lady comes she is checking to see that everyone ENROLLED in the program is participating and eating the same meal, and that you are only claiming children that are present (not trying to get paid for kids that aren't there that day)

I think if the mom didn't want to participate she doesn't have to. Something to check into. I'm pretty sure the parent has a choice not to enroll and it doesn't affect the rest of your claiming, you just won't get paid for her.

Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
It's national. If you're on the food program, every kid must get the required food or have a doctors note.
This is true, but for all children that are enrolled. I don't think they have to enroll, but if they do they get served the same as everyone else. But like I said I never had anyone refuse
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CraftyMom 08:07 PM 02-14-2014
I was very curious in case I ever had this situation come up. Here's what I found:

"All children in your care must be offered participation in the CACFP. Non participating children, by parent choice, must complete a Child Enrollment Form. Encourage parents to complete the Voluntary Civil Rights Information."

What I get from this is you have to offer it to everyone but they can refuse.
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Mom2TLE 08:09 PM 02-14-2014
I am pretty sure they can sign a refusal to participate in the food program. I would ask your sponsor about charging her for meals though, I would think that you could, if she refuses to be part of the program.
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Cradle2crayons 08:18 PM 02-14-2014
Is the mom against all carbs or just all grains.

I think I would go with the belief that parents don't give me permission to feed the kids unhealthy. I'm sorry but unless a child is allergic or intolerant, they all eat the same. If this parent isn't substituting the grains and milk with other things, the child will be deficient.

My program, my meals. I've never heard of a religious reason to not eat grains and cows milk so I would cook this child the same meals and have mom being the milk.

I won't have parents send food because most of my parents would send crap food and I'm not serving crap food to one while serving healthy to others.

If they were vegetarians or lactose intolerant or kosher that would be one thing... But it sounds like mom is denying this child necessary nutrients like carbs and fat that his child NEEDS in order to grow and thrive. And since mom isn't substituting anything in its place, she is placing this child in danger.
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TwinKristi 09:36 PM 02-14-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Is the mom against all carbs or just all grains.

I think I would go with the belief that parents don't give me permission to feed the kids unhealthy. I'm sorry but unless a child is allergic or intolerant, they all eat the same. If this parent isn't substituting the grains and milk with other things, the child will be deficient.

My program, my meals. I've never heard of a religious reason to not eat grains and cows milk so I would cook this child the same meals and have mom being the milk.

I won't have parents send food because most of my parents would send crap food and I'm not serving crap food to one while serving healthy to others.

If they were vegetarians or lactose intolerant or kosher that would be one thing... But it sounds like mom is denying this child necessary nutrients like carbs and fat that his child NEEDS in order to grow and thrive. And since mom isn't substituting anything in its place, she is placing this child in danger.
First, at less than 1 yr it's really not essential a child has grains. Rice cereal and oatmeal are simply filler. They have no nutritional value in infants. After 1yr I wouldn't really think they're necessary either. Many people eat a gluten free and/or Paleo diet which doesn't eat grains or legumes. Paleo doesn't do dairy either. They drink coconut or almond milk. There has to be some type of substituting but it's with meat, veggies, nuts, etc.

As far as food program, you just need to call and ask your rep. I know parents can refuse to participate in the program but if they provide their own food, which would probably be best with an alternate diet, I don't think you can charge extra. I know there's been something mentioned about offering this for free so you can't charge for participating but can you charge for not participating? I really don't know for sure.

Personally I would just have mom supply the food. If you find the child's diet to be insufficient than I would tell her so. If she has enough food to keep her satisfied and she's happy and healthy, I don't know what the problem is?
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Cradle2crayons 10:00 PM 02-14-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
First, at less than 1 yr it's really not essential a child has grains. Rice cereal and oatmeal are simply filler. They have no nutritional value in infants. After 1yr I wouldn't really think they're necessary either. Many people eat a gluten free and/or Paleo diet which doesn't eat grains or legumes. Paleo doesn't do dairy either. They drink coconut or almond milk. There has to be some type of substituting but it's with meat, veggies, nuts, etc.

As far as food program, you just need to call and ask your rep. I know parents can refuse to participate in the program but if they provide their own food, which would probably be best with an alternate diet, I don't think you can charge extra. I know there's been something mentioned about offering this for free so you can't charge for participating but can you charge for not participating? I really don't know for sure.

Personally I would just have mom supply the food. If you find the child's diet to be insufficient than I would tell her so. If she has enough food to keep her satisfied and she's happy and healthy, I don't know what the problem is?
Good points but just because you eat gluten free doesn't mean you can't eat grains..Not only that... It's not that he mom doesn't want her to have certain things it's that she also isn't substituting with anything else. That's my issue.

And I know some have had good experiences with parents supplying food, however, in my experience, I've had parents send food that was crap and junk and I won't feed that to kids in my care.

As far as the op post, my food program here will NOT allow parents to opt out of the program. They wouldn't even let me opt out my OWN children from he program. That and some other stupid inconsistencies is why I'm not and never will be on the food program.
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morgan24 04:57 AM 02-15-2014
I have only asked my FP rep about the goats milk. If it's raw it doesn't count it has to be fortified. I'll call my rep Monday and see if she has to be on it or not.

Dcm follows a breast feeding group and she thinks whatever they say is the right way and takes it to the extreme. This is the dcm who wanted me to wear the bags of breast milk in my bra to warm it. She might start grains after 2 she's not sure if she ever will. It comes down to if she supplies the food it causes the others to want what dcg is eating and if I don't claim her I don't get paid. I do the FP for the extra money.
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KidGrind 05:33 AM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by morgan24:
Would it be okay to charge someone more because they don't want their child to eat grains or drink cows milk? The way she wants her child to eat will not meet the requirements for the food program and Dcm has been hinting she might want to supply dcgs food. I haven't talked about it with her because I've been thinking about it. I don't really want to have just one bring different food because it causes too many problems. I am tier one and its around $85.00 a month that I get per child.
I have a similar situation. I would check your state’s laws on raw goat milk. In the state I reside, raw goat milk for human consumption is illegal unless the person’s consuming it owns the goat. Whether DCP provides provides food or not I would charge a service fee. It is extra work. A concern is if the child is getting all the nutritional needs from the lack of cow’s milk. The formula two of my DCFs use includes flax seed & molasses. I allow a goat milk formula made by the parents from powder form.

I would also have the parent sign a form acknowledging she provided the goat milk and takes responsibility for any health issues resulting from it.

GOOD LUCK!
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itlw8 06:00 AM 02-15-2014
They have to fill out the enrollment forms for the food program but they can opt out ..... fill out form you get no money. You stil have to mark when they are there so they no you are not over ratios

Raw goats milk not sure about other states but licensing her requires pasturized milk.

no grains... hmmm even our state regs require a grain

I would need a drs orders even if not on the food program.
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Angelsj 06:27 AM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
First, at less than 1 yr it's really not essential a child has grains. Rice cereal and oatmeal are simply filler. They have no nutritional value in infants. After 1yr I wouldn't really think they're necessary either. Many people eat a gluten free and/or Paleo diet which doesn't eat grains or legumes. Paleo doesn't do dairy either. They drink coconut or almond milk. There has to be some type of substituting but it's with meat, veggies, nuts, etc.

As far as food program, you just need to call and ask your rep. I know parents can refuse to participate in the program but if they provide their own food, which would probably be best with an alternate diet, I don't think you can charge extra. I know there's been something mentioned about offering this for free so you can't charge for participating but can you charge for not participating? I really don't know for sure.

Personally I would just have mom supply the food. If you find the child's diet to be insufficient than I would tell her so. If she has enough food to keep her satisfied and she's happy and healthy, I don't know what the problem is?
Precisely!
And older children can get the required carbs for energy as well as the micronutrients needed for growth without grains if that is the parent's wish.
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Blackcat31 06:56 AM 02-15-2014
I have a child who cannot have diary and some grains. I AM enrolled in the food program but this child is NOT. In my area, families are NOT required to participate in the food program just because the provider has signed on.

At first we just did a special diet statement and had the doctor fill out things that needed to be substituted for the things the child couldn't have.

After a bit the mom became unhappy with the foods the doctor was suggesting as replacements so she opted out of the food program all together and started bringing the child's foods.

It was no problem at first.

Then mom started forgetting or brining really sub-par meals because she ran out of xx or whatever so the kid would get a banana and a few green beans for lunch. I finally told mom enough and started buying the food myself.

I raised their rate to accommodate the food I had to buy.

I had mom see her nutritionist and write up a healthy well balanced diet that was suitable to the diet mom wanted for her child. I think she brought me 4 weeks of menus. I just rotated them.

In that scenario today I would not allow a parent to bring in foods. (You never know what is in them and what has or hasn't been added..kiwm?)

Too big of a liability all around. I also wanted to make sure the diet/foods the parent was supplying met the nutritional needs of the child so I required the diet-menu from the doctor or nutritionist.

OP if I were you, I would call your rep and see if the family can opt out.

If they can opt out, charge them more to make up for the food that YOU need to buy.

Do not allow the family to bring their own foods. Too risky

Have their doctor or a certified nutritionist write up a well balanced acceptable diet/menu for the child for atleast a 2-3 week period. Rotate the menus.

That should satisfy everyone.
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CraftyMom 08:18 AM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I have a child who cannot have diary and some grains. I AM enrolled in the food program but this child is NOT. In my area, families are NOT required to participate in the food program just because the provider has signed on.

At first we just did a special diet statement and had the doctor fill out things that needed to be substituted for the things the child couldn't have.

After a bit the mom became unhappy with the foods the doctor was suggesting as replacements so she opted out of the food program all together and started bringing the child's foods.

It was no problem at first.

Then mom started forgetting or brining really sub-par meals because she ran out of xx or whatever so the kid would get a banana and a few green beans for lunch. I finally told mom enough and started buying the food myself.

I raised their rate to accommodate the food I had to buy.

I had mom see her nutritionist and write up a healthy well balanced diet that was suitable to the diet mom wanted for her child. I think she brought me 4 weeks of menus. I just rotated them.

In that scenario today I would not allow a parent to bring in foods. (You never know what is in them and what has or hasn't been added..kiwm?)

Too big of a liability all around. I also wanted to make sure the diet/foods the parent was supplying met the nutritional needs of the child so I required the diet-menu from the doctor or nutritionist.

OP if I were you, I would call your rep and see if the family can opt out.

If they can opt out, charge them more to make up for the food that YOU need to buy.

Do not allow the family to bring their own foods. Too risky

Have their doctor or a certified nutritionist write up a well balanced acceptable diet/menu for the child for atleast a 2-3 week period. Rotate the menus.

That should satisfy everyone.

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morgan24 09:35 AM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I have a child who cannot have diary and some grains. I AM enrolled in the food program but this child is NOT. In my area, families are NOT required to participate in the food program just because the provider has signed on.

At first we just did a special diet statement and had the doctor fill out things that needed to be substituted for the things the child couldn't have.

After a bit the mom became unhappy with the foods the doctor was suggesting as replacements so she opted out of the food program all together and started bringing the child's foods.

It was no problem at first.

Then mom started forgetting or brining really sub-par meals because she ran out of xx or whatever so the kid would get a banana and a few green beans for lunch. I finally told mom enough and started buying the food myself.

I raised their rate to accommodate the food I had to buy.

I had mom see her nutritionist and write up a healthy well balanced diet that was suitable to the diet mom wanted for her child. I think she brought me 4 weeks of menus. I just rotated them.

In that scenario today I would not allow a parent to bring in foods. (You never know what is in them and what has or hasn't been added..kiwm?)

Too big of a liability all around. I also wanted to make sure the diet/foods the parent was supplying met the nutritional needs of the child so I required the diet-menu from the doctor or nutritionist.

OP if I were you, I would call your rep and see if the family can opt out.

If they can opt out, charge them more to make up for the food that YOU need to buy.

Do not allow the family to bring their own foods. Too risky

Have their doctor or a certified nutritionist write up a well balanced acceptable diet/menu for the child for atleast a 2-3 week period. Rotate the menus.

That should satisfy everyone.
These are a lot of the issues I want to avoid. My FP rep said goats milk can be used as long as it's fortified.Dcm only wants to supply raw goats milk and wants me to feed dcg everything else but grains. If I don't feed her the grain and use the goats milk that makes the meal non creditable on the FP. That's why I want to charge her what I would get from the FP, it's her choice to make it so I can't claim it.
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CraftyMom 10:07 AM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by morgan24:
These are a lot of the issues I want to avoid. My FP rep said goats milk can be used as long as it's fortified.Dcm only wants to supply raw goats milk and wants me to feed dcg everything else but grains. If I don't feed her the grain and use the goats milk that makes the meal non creditable on the FP. That's why I want to charge her what I would get from the FP, it's her choice to make it so I can't claim it.
Just wondering, has this child already started in your care? It would be easier to tell her before she starts of course.

If she has already started you could tell her "Now that dkg has been in my care for x amount of time I see that I will have to begin charging you for her food since you choose not to have your child eat what I am serving through the fp. I do not allow outside food to be brought in. I will supply healthy meals for dkg based on your desires, but it will be an extra $x to cover the cost of these meals. If at anytime I see that this arrangement is not working it may be necessary to find other arrangements for child care"

An example of not working is the other dck's wanting what she is eating

Also as someone else mentioned have her sign a waiver
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morgan24 10:46 AM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
Just wondering, has this child already started in your care? It would be easier to tell her before she starts of course.

If she has already started you could tell her "Now that dkg has been in my care for x amount of time I see that I will have to begin charging you for her food since you choose not to have your child eat what I am serving through the fp. I do not allow outside food to be brought in. I will supply healthy meals for dkg based on your desires, but it will be an extra $x to cover the cost of these meals. If at anytime I see that this arrangement is not working it may be necessary to find other arrangements for child care"

An example of not working is the other dck's wanting what she is eating

Also as someone else mentioned have her sign a waiver
I have had her for 7 months. She did just breast milk until 8 months. Then adding oatmeal baby cereal, along with veggies and fruit. Dcm has been researching grains and has decided that she doesn't want to feed them to dcg. She's been talking about not doing the oatmeal either and if she decides to do that I won't be able to claim her anymore. When that happens I will feed her however dcm wants but I want her to pay more for what I'm losing in order to do it how she wants. Dcg is part time right now and will be going full time March 1, I'm getting a full time contract ready and want to include the food program issue in it.
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TwinKristi 03:18 PM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by morgan24:
I have had her for 7 months. She did just breast milk until 8 months. Then adding oatmeal baby cereal, along with veggies and fruit. Dcm has been researching grains and has decided that she doesn't want to feed them to dcg. She's been talking about not doing the oatmeal either and if she decides to do that I won't be able to claim her anymore. When that happens I will feed her however dcm wants but I want her to pay more for what I'm losing in order to do it how she wants. Dcg is part time right now and will be going full time March 1, I'm getting a full time contract ready and want to include the food program issue in it.
Wait... She gives oatmeal but doesn't want grains? Does she realize oatmeal IS a grain?? Is she talking about eliminating grains now? Does she have a reason why? Is she not tolerating grains well?

The way I see it, if mom is concerned about grains and dairy I wouldn't be too worried about her bringing junk food, which are full of grains and dairy among other things, if she provided her meals. I understand the issue with parents providing food and it causing an issue with the other kids, that's why I joined the food program to begin with. But if you're providing the food and she declines the food program then yes, I can't see a problem with charging her for the food you provide. If you're not feeding her and mom provides the food it's not lost income because you're not buying her food. If you do provide the food for a fee, I would second BC's idea of seeing a nutritionist and developing some menus to rotate for you.
The mom I had who provided her own food didn't pack anything "better" than what I was providing, just different stuff. She didn't provide food program eligible meals either. After a few weeks he started eating more than she provided so I included him in snacks and such. It was all quite silly. Anyway, in my area you definitely have a say in participating, your own children don't have to participate, etc.
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TwinKristi 03:36 PM 02-15-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Good points but just because you eat gluten free doesn't mean you can't eat grains..Not only that... It's not that he mom doesn't want her to have certain things it's that she also isn't substituting with anything else. That's my issue.

And I know some have had good experiences with parents supplying food, however, in my experience, I've had parents send food that was crap and junk and I won't feed that to kids in my care.

As far as the op post, my food program here will NOT allow parents to opt out of the program. They wouldn't even let me opt out my OWN children from he program. That and some other stupid inconsistencies is why I'm not and never will be on the food program.
Yeah but I don't see this as a gluten free issue, most GF grain substitutes like breads, pasta, etc. are only to make life easier for people who have become accustomed to grains in their daily diet, but most FP grains are not GF. Paleo doesn't have grains AT ALL! None. I have several friends who are Paleo and their children are as well. I don't really get what you mean by the idea of her substituting grains or not. Substituting with what? She's substituting with proteins, fruits/veggies & nuts. Carbs are in many foods that aren't grains.
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Leigh 07:20 PM 02-15-2014
I could certainly be wrong, but I thought that the food program did not allow us to charge more for families that do not participate. You may want to run that past your sponsor, or just not mention the reason for the rate in your contract (simply raise the rate by $30/week or whatever).

I know that I am probably in the minority, but I just won't take kids when I don't agree with the parents' philosophies on feeding or discipline...it just doesn't work for me when I don't respect the parents.
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craftymissbeth 09:19 PM 02-15-2014
I just enrolled in the food program this week. While the food program lady was here I specifically asked her if I could charge more to families who want to opt out. She straight out said no and that this sponsor technically doesn't allow families to opt out. They may provide their own foods or eat what I provide, which has to be claimable. She said if I encounter a family who wants to opt out I'm to inform them that the food program is part of MY program and you either participate or find a provider that isn't on it.

I see that not all sponsors are the same, though.
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KidGrind 05:15 AM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I just enrolled in the food program this week. While the food program lady was here I specifically asked her if I could charge more to families who want to opt out. She straight out said no and that this sponsor technically doesn't allow families to opt out. They may provide their own foods or eat what I provide, which has to be claimable. She said if I encounter a family who wants to opt out I'm to inform them that the food program is part of MY program and you either participate or find a provider that isn't on it.

I see that not all sponsors are the same, though.
I would look into their regulations. Some reps are dictators in training and spurt info based off of their wants & opinions instead of the actual regulations in place.
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NoMoreJuice! 06:00 AM 02-16-2014
I swear, the government doesn't trust us to feed kids the right nutrition. Hello! People were WAY healthier BEFORE the government got involved!! The addition of wheat and corn subsidies led to a HUGE push for people eating tons of grains...which your body DOES NOT NEED to survive. There are two types of people who benefit from eating complex carbohydrates: athletes and children, who are basically small athletes spending tons of energy growing. But carbs do not have to come from grains! They are in every veggie and fruit, and some are power packed like sweet potatoes and bananas!

Anyway, I'm super proud of that mom for giving her child a great start in life free from the chains of false information that have been handed down for the last three or four generations. But in Kansas, our state regs (not food program) state that we can't let kids consume raw milk. I haven't read them, but I'm sure the food program regs would concur. I drink raw milk because it is AMAZING and people have been doing it for thousands of years, but all of a sudden the government started subsidizing dairy farms and BOOM--new regulations banning raw milk.
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Evansmom 06:03 AM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Yeah but I don't see this as a gluten free issue, most GF grain substitutes like breads, pasta, etc. are only to make life easier for people who have become accustomed to grains in their daily diet, but most FP grains are not GF. Paleo doesn't have grains AT ALL! None. I have several friends who are Paleo and their children are as well. I don't really get what you mean by the idea of her substituting grains or not. Substituting with what? She's substituting with proteins, fruits/veggies & nuts. Carbs are in many foods that aren't grains.

Yep, we are grain free and I can report my family is all alive and well and growing perfectly. There are plenty of carbs in dairy foods as well as tons in fruit and a good amount in veggies. Plus the preferred fuel for our bodies is fat, not carbs. Grains are not necessary to our diets, every single grain (even the ones labeled "whole grain) is a processed food. They are all processed in some way. Why do you think grains have to be fortified? If they were so healthy wouldn't they be fine the way the are? You don't see meat or veggies with labels saying "now fortified with..." Also grains actually have anti-nutrients that interfere with digestion. There is plenty of research out there on this.

OP, I think it's fair to let the mom opt out of the food program and pay you to provide food or to bring her own. A parent should be able to feed their child the way they think is best.
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morgan24 06:36 AM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by Evansmom:

Yep, we are grain free and I can report my family is all alive and well and growing perfectly. There are plenty of carbs in dairy foods as well as tons in fruit and a good amount in veggies. Plus the preferred fuel for our bodies is fat, not carbs. Grains are not necessary to our diets, every single grain (even the ones labeled "whole grain) is a processed food. They are all processed in some way. Why do you think grains have to be fortified? If they were so healthy wouldn't they be fine the way the are? You don't see meat or veggies with labels saying "now fortified with..." Also grains actually have anti-nutrients that interfere with digestion. There is plenty of research out there on this.

OP, I think it's fair to let the mom opt out of the food program and pay you to provide food or to bring her own. A parent should be able to feed their child the way they think is best.
I agree a parent should be able to feed their child how ever they choose and I respect her right to do that. That why I'm trying to figure something out that will work for both of us. She doesn't want to bring her own food except for goats milk. Dcg will eat everything else but the grain. So if we have Mac and cheese, she will get just the cheese, veggie and fruit. I'll contact my FP rep and see what she says.

My personal family is grain free, so I understand the reasons she is choosing to go grain free. The FP income is a pretty fair amount of money per year that I don't really want to lose.
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dalman 08:17 AM 02-16-2014
After reading everyone's replies, I am surprised that so many are willing to accept what their food program worker says as gospel. The food program is a USDA federally funded government program serviced by individual state agencies. The federal and/or state government can not usurp a parents right to raise their child the way they see fit. A parent, a citizen of the United States, has rights. They have the right to refuse to participate in the food program. I don't care what an individual food program worker tries to spew as truth. A parent does not have to participate. They must sign the consent to refuse the service and the provider must keep this form in their food program file. Your food program worker may not be aware of this form. What a provider and a parent work out after that is signed, is between the two of them, providing it does not involve neglect or harmful behavior.

Just because the government says we must eat a certain way, does not make it right. What happened to critical thinking skills and thinking outside the box and perhaps finding a better way? For example, our bodies do not need milk. We were not even able to tolerate cows milk for many years. But over the years, dairy farmers developed a mutation that allowed them to digest milk. Prior to that, we were all lactose intolerant. Those that can drink milk are actually mutated. Those that can not and are labeled lactose intolerant are actually "normal". We were never supposed to drink cows milk, but the American Dairy Association and the Federal government have been feeding the masses this lie for so long, that it has become "truth". Just food for thought.
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CraftyMom 08:53 AM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by morgan24:
I agree a parent should be able to feed their child how ever they choose and I respect her right to do that. That why I'm trying to figure something out that will work for both of us. She doesn't want to bring her own food except for goats milk. Dcg will eat everything else but the grain. So if we have Mac and cheese, she will get just the cheese, veggie and fruit. I'll contact my FP rep and see what she says.

My personal family is grain free, so I understand the reasons she is choosing to go grain free. The FP income is a pretty fair amount of money per year that I don't really want to lose.
Here's a thought:
Since dkg will be eating everything else you provide, just not the grain (or milk) maybe the case will be that "you offered the food to dcg and she did not eat it" . All we can do as providers is offer the foods required by the fp, but not every child eats everything offered. This is perfectly fine by the fp as long as it is "offered" ...if you kwim . You could continue to claim dcg, since you are "offering" the required foods. The only time I see an issue is when the fp observes a meal and dcg is not offered a component of the meal. In this case perhaps you would put it on her plate and she may or may not eat it. Just a thought, I'm not in anyway suggesting being dishonest, just maybe you could find a loop hole
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craftymissbeth 09:46 AM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by dalman:
After reading everyone's replies, I am surprised that so many are willing to accept what their food program worker says as gospel. The food program is a USDA federally funded government program serviced by individual state agencies. The federal and/or state government can not usurp a parents right to raise their child the way they see fit. A parent, a citizen of the United States, has rights. They have the right to refuse to participate in the food program. I don't care what an individual food program worker tries to spew as truth. A parent does not have to participate. They must sign the consent to refuse the service and the provider must keep this form in their food program file. Your food program worker may not be aware of this form. What a provider and a parent work out after that is signed, is between the two of them, providing it does not involve neglect or harmful behavior.

Just because the government says we must eat a certain way, does not make it right. What happened to critical thinking skills and thinking outside the box and perhaps finding a better way? For example, our bodies do not need milk. We were not even able to tolerate cows milk for many years. But over the years, dairy farmers developed a mutation that allowed them to digest milk. Prior to that, we were all lactose intolerant. Those that can drink milk are actually mutated. Those that can not and are labeled lactose intolerant are actually "normal". We were never supposed to drink cows milk, but the American Dairy Association and the Federal government have been feeding the masses this lie for so long, that it has become "truth". Just food for thought.
I don't take my sponsors word as gospel but I was just sharing what mine said. In fact, I have shared many times on this forum that I was very against the food program because the majority of their regulations go against my personal beliefs..not to mention the fact that I'm very much of the opinion that government has very little business in my for-profit daycare business.

I do agree with everything you've said regarding diet.
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Evansmom 10:46 AM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by morgan24:
I agree a parent should be able to feed their child how ever they choose and I respect her right to do that. That why I'm trying to figure something out that will work for both of us. She doesn't want to bring her own food except for goats milk. Dcg will eat everything else but the grain. So if we have Mac and cheese, she will get just the cheese, veggie and fruit. I'll contact my FP rep and see what she says.

My personal family is grain free, so I understand the reasons she is choosing to go grain free. The FP income is a pretty fair amount of money per year that I don't really want to lose.
That's why I agree that she can opt out but pay you the amount you're losing from the food program bc she's opting out. That way you get what you need (your income stays the same) and she gets what she wants (DCK gets fed the way she wants). I don't think it's unfair to arrange it this way. It seems the only way for both of you to get what you need. Otherwise DCM will have to understand that you have to abide by food program guidelines.
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TwinKristi 03:21 PM 02-16-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
Here's a thought:
Since dkg will be eating everything else you provide, just not the grain (or milk) maybe the case will be that "you offered the food to dcg and she did not eat it" . All we can do as providers is offer the foods required by the fp, but not every child eats everything offered. This is perfectly fine by the fp as long as it is "offered" ...if you kwim . You could continue to claim dcg, since you are "offering" the required foods. The only time I see an issue is when the fp observes a meal and dcg is not offered a component of the meal. In this case perhaps you would put it on her plate and she may or may not eat it. Just a thought, I'm not in anyway suggesting being dishonest, just maybe you could find a loop hole
This crossed my mind too. I offer the kids milk at every meal but rarely do they actually want it. One doesn't drink cow's milk so he says no and gets goats milk at home. Same with grains I'd guess. If you serve everyone else grains then that DCG says no thanks to the grains then you did your part. But if the FP rep doesn't like that then that could be an issue. Some kids refuse to eat the veggies or the fruits, I still purchased them and offered them so I can claim them.
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My3cents 11:28 AM 02-17-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I just enrolled in the food program this week. While the food program lady was here I specifically asked her if I could charge more to families who want to opt out. She straight out said no and that this sponsor technically doesn't allow families to opt out. They may provide their own foods or eat what I provide, which has to be claimable. She said if I encounter a family who wants to opt out I'm to inform them that the food program is part of MY program and you either participate or find a provider that isn't on it.

I see that not all sponsors are the same, though.
Wow. Food Program is a Federally Funded program so I would think the rules would apply to everyone. I guess I would challenge this sponsor and ask to speak with her higher up person-

This is now putting the Food Program as your Boss- No way. I will charge my clients what I want to charge them. The Food program doesn't even ask what I charge my clients. If they don't want to be be a part of the food program I would think that is there choice, it is my choice if I decide to charge them more. I would probably ask that they bring their own meals and if they were not what I wanted for my program as in (junk) or caused issues. I would have to let the family go. I understand the Food Program wanting everyone to participate but ultimately that is up to the parents and what they want for their child. I wouldn't allow unhealthy foods during my daycare hours no matter if the parent brings it in or I serve it or am on the program or not. Treats are very rare here. I can serve two times a week a special snack like a cookie and I don't even do that. The kids get enough of that at home. When they are home I have no control over that. All I can do is serve good foods and hope that the child will grow good habits from being exposed to those foods they might not have had a chance to try, and I try to educate my clients too.
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melilley 11:45 AM 02-17-2014
Here are a couple of websites that anyone can take a look at. The rules are supposed to be for everyone, but of course each sponsor can look at the rule and interpret it a different way.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/cacfp/child-...e-food-program

and

http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/defaul...ring_Homes.pdf

The second link is the monitoring handbook that the sponsors are supposed to use and go by.
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Cradle2crayons 02:09 PM 02-17-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Yeah but I don't see this as a gluten free issue, most GF grain substitutes like breads, pasta, etc. are only to make life easier for people who have become accustomed to grains in their daily diet, but most FP grains are not GF. Paleo doesn't have grains AT ALL! None. I have several friends who are Paleo and their children are as well. I don't really get what you mean by the idea of her substituting grains or not. Substituting with what? She's substituting with proteins, fruits/veggies & nuts. Carbs are in many foods that aren't grains.
Yet again, you quote me and misconstrue. I was only going by what the op said "she is not substituting with anything"

Yes, I realize if I went completely grain free, I would substitute the good parts of grains with other components.

However, I quoted and commented to the information as it was given to me... Which was...

"Mom isn't substituting with anything else"

I simply can't ASSUME mom has a clue other than wanting to do the grain free like some people do without even reading the info about it.

I commented to what was posted, not what I assumed.
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TwinKristi 02:59 PM 02-17-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Yet again, you quote me and misconstrue. I was only going by what the op said "she is not substituting with anything"

Yes, I realize if I went completely grain free, I would substitute the good parts of grains with other components.

However, I quoted and commented to the information as it was given to me... Which was...

"Mom isn't substituting with anything else"

I simply can't ASSUME mom has a clue other than wanting to do the grain free like some people do without even reading the info about it.

I commented to what was posted, not what I assumed.
I guess we're just not reading the same book here, let alone on the same page. Grains don't need a substitute. That's my point. Even if she said she was, she is simply by feeding the child anything but grains. And she isn't substituting now because the baby (which doesn't even need grains at all) is getting grains now.

It's just your comments seem a little negative and judemental to me. In this situation it would be pretty hard to bring "grain-free, dairy-free junk" ya know? Mom is trying to avoid junk and she gets the old :eyeroll:
It just doesn't make sense to me that a parent would breast feed for almost a year, even when working, get info on a grain-free diet and it's "assumed" she doesn't know what she's talking about and thinks whatever some group of moms said is truth, grains are necessary for everyone and especially children, and if she supplies her own food it will be junk food and if the child is unhealthy it can be a liability. Mom doesn't even want to provide food but wants an alternate diet.

The simple answer here is if you want something other than the meal served (and FP claimable) then there's a) a fee of $__ or b) you provide the foods but both require a meal plan for the child that is healthy and nutritionally sound.
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Cradle2crayons 03:27 PM 02-17-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I guess we're just not reading the same book here, let alone on the same page. Grains don't need a substitute. That's my point. Even if she said she was, she is simply by feeding the child anything but grains. And she isn't substituting now because the baby (which doesn't even need grains at all) is getting grains now.

It's just your comments seem a little negative and judemental to me. In this situation it would be pretty hard to bring "grain-free, dairy-free junk" ya know? Mom is trying to avoid junk and she gets the old :eyeroll:
It just doesn't make sense to me that a parent would breast feed for almost a year, even when working, get info on a grain-free diet and it's "assumed" she doesn't know what she's talking about and thinks whatever some group of moms said is truth, grains are necessary for everyone and especially children, and if she supplies her own food it will be junk food and if the child is unhealthy it can be a liability. Mom doesn't even want to provide food but wants an alternate diet.

The simple answer here is if you want something other than the meal served (and FP claimable) then there's a) a fee of $__ or b) you provide the foods but both require a meal plan for the child that is healthy and nutritionally sound.
(B) was my entire point. Personally, I would just think if a mom wasn't going to feed grains, she would have realized oatmeal baby cereal is a grain

My point was you kept saying you could substitute with a and b to be sure you get all necessary requirements... But mom isn't going to substitute and when I question that you say no substitution is necessary?? of course I'm Ina. Completely different book on the wrong page apparently... But hey... It's okay... On to he next post.....
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