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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Should I Comfort A Screaming Misbehaving Child?
Unregistered 03:15 PM 08-08-2013
Logged out for privacy of the child involved.
I'm at a loss for what to do with this 3.5 year old boy who will start screaming "NO!" over and over at the top of his lungs any time you try to warn him not to do something or say you're going to discipline him. Today at nap he was playing and being loud so I told him something like "No playing at nap time, put your head on your bed, no screaming or you'll get a time out" and he starts screaming "no" and I use a stern voice to tell him "don't scream no to me, you're going to wake up the other kids" and he keeps screaming it even louder.
In the past I almost terminated him due to this behavior because it was happening every day sometimes multiple times a day, but his mom would make him apologize the next day, and he started to learn other ways of protesting when I would tell him not to scream no at me (he would grunt/growl, or say "uh-uh", but not scream "no"). So, he's capable of finding other ways to show his displeasure and knows he's not supposed to do this at my house.
Now, regardless of why he does this, once he starts doing it, I know he's not going to back down and anything I say to him is going to make him scream louder. Today my sister was visiting and during his meltdown she picked him up and talked gently to him to distract him and he eventually stopped screaming "no" and just said it in a regular voice repeatedly, then eventually was quiet and she put him back on his bed and he remained quiet. I'm torn because I feel like that is almost rewarding him for his bad behavior, but at the same time it may be the only way to stop the behavior once it starts.
Would you try comforting a child throwing a tantrum who is mad at you? I don't even know if he would let me. I understand that a child throwing a tantrum has lost self control and is probably scared by their own emotional outburst. But I feel like this kid is old enough that he is in control of his outburst and isn't scared by it, so I don't know what to do. Is a time out appropriate for a meltdown? Should I remove him from the nap time area and put him in a somewhat secluded place? The other kids surprisingly didn't wake up, but when they are awake, they get scared by his screaming. Should I call his parents to pick him up? WWYD?
I'm at a loss for what to do with this 3.5 year old boy who will start screaming "NO!" over and over at the top of his lungs any time you try to warn him not to do something or say you're going to discipline him. Today at nap he was playing and being loud so I told him something like "No playing at nap time, put your head on your bed, no screaming or you'll get a time out" and he starts screaming "no" and I use a stern voice to tell him "don't scream no to me, you're going to wake up the other kids" and he keeps screaming it even louder.
In the past I almost terminated him due to this behavior because it was happening every day sometimes multiple times a day, but his mom would make him apologize the next day, and he started to learn other ways of protesting when I would tell him not to scream no at me (he would grunt/growl, or say "uh-uh", but not scream "no"). So, he's capable of finding other ways to show his displeasure and knows he's not supposed to do this at my house.
Now, regardless of why he does this, once he starts doing it, I know he's not going to back down and anything I say to him is going to make him scream louder. Today my sister was visiting and during his meltdown she picked him up and talked gently to him to distract him and he eventually stopped screaming "no" and just said it in a regular voice repeatedly, then eventually was quiet and she put him back on his bed and he remained quiet. I'm torn because I feel like that is almost rewarding him for his bad behavior, but at the same time it may be the only way to stop the behavior once it starts.
Would you try comforting a child throwing a tantrum who is mad at you? I don't even know if he would let me. I understand that a child throwing a tantrum has lost self control and is probably scared by their own emotional outburst. But I feel like this kid is old enough that he is in control of his outburst and isn't scared by it, so I don't know what to do. Is a time out appropriate for a meltdown? Should I remove him from the nap time area and put him in a somewhat secluded place? The other kids surprisingly didn't wake up, but when they are awake, they get scared by his screaming. Should I call his parents to pick him up? WWYD?
Heidi 06:39 PM 08-08-2013
ooooh...
depends:
When he has a tantrum, do you feel he is IN control or OUT of control? Example: If you said "hey, DCB, look at the dinosaur!" in the middle of the tantrum, would he stop?
I had a 4 yo like that last year. He used tantrums to manipulate those around him.
If that's the case, there would be a consequence for the behavior. Moving him away from the group, or some other privilege lost because he's misbehaving.
If he's just frustrated and out of control because he's so upset, those are the tantrums that you might be able diffuse like your sister did. I have a couple ideas:
Preparing him ahead of time "hey, kids, we are eating lunch now, then what? Oh...yep..we read a story. Then what...yep, we have rest time. Yay! We get to take a break! Then what? Yes! Snack! We are having xxx for snack today!"
Letting him have some control. Let everyone pick a stuffed animal friend to nap with, maybe. This is something I did with my 3's and 4's when I had them that really helped. There was a big tucking in, sleep well, hugs-and-kisses ritual, too. They like rituals. I had one little guy who preferred a toy car or train or two. Whatever, as long as you're quiet. A book would be another option. Most kids I've had, it's more about having that little thing then actually using it. They tend to hug it and fall asleep. You know what it is that makes him tick-use it to your (and his) advantage.
or-
You could "conspire" with him secretly that once everyone else is tucked in, you will come back and give him an "extra" hug. Talk to him alone at some point earlier in the day. "Hey, dcb, I know you really don't like nap very much, but we all need rest. How about, today after everyone gets tucked in, I come give you an extra snuggle? Don't tell the other kids, though, or we'll NEVER get any rest"
Remind him periodically as nap gets closer, like he's your best pal and you've got a big-ole' secret together.
I don't know the child, so these are just ideas that may not work for this kiddo.
depends:
When he has a tantrum, do you feel he is IN control or OUT of control? Example: If you said "hey, DCB, look at the dinosaur!" in the middle of the tantrum, would he stop?
I had a 4 yo like that last year. He used tantrums to manipulate those around him.
If that's the case, there would be a consequence for the behavior. Moving him away from the group, or some other privilege lost because he's misbehaving.
If he's just frustrated and out of control because he's so upset, those are the tantrums that you might be able diffuse like your sister did. I have a couple ideas:
Preparing him ahead of time "hey, kids, we are eating lunch now, then what? Oh...yep..we read a story. Then what...yep, we have rest time. Yay! We get to take a break! Then what? Yes! Snack! We are having xxx for snack today!"
Letting him have some control. Let everyone pick a stuffed animal friend to nap with, maybe. This is something I did with my 3's and 4's when I had them that really helped. There was a big tucking in, sleep well, hugs-and-kisses ritual, too. They like rituals. I had one little guy who preferred a toy car or train or two. Whatever, as long as you're quiet. A book would be another option. Most kids I've had, it's more about having that little thing then actually using it. They tend to hug it and fall asleep. You know what it is that makes him tick-use it to your (and his) advantage.
or-
You could "conspire" with him secretly that once everyone else is tucked in, you will come back and give him an "extra" hug. Talk to him alone at some point earlier in the day. "Hey, dcb, I know you really don't like nap very much, but we all need rest. How about, today after everyone gets tucked in, I come give you an extra snuggle? Don't tell the other kids, though, or we'll NEVER get any rest"
Remind him periodically as nap gets closer, like he's your best pal and you've got a big-ole' secret together. I don't know the child, so these are just ideas that may not work for this kiddo.
EntropyControlSpecialist 06:46 PM 08-08-2013
I don't allow daycare children to say no to me, to be honest with you. I NEVER request something that is unreasonable nor do I request something that is an option. If it's lunch time, it's lunch time and saying no will not change that. If it's time to go back from the park, then it's time to go back and saying no will not change that. If it's time to change our diaper/pull-up/go potty, then it's that time and saying no will not change that.
Naturally, I have had some very loud children who protest much like your DCB does. I calmly placed them in an area that was away from the other children and said, "We do not say no. We say yes ma'am." and I walk away. After a minute, I will go and ask them, "Are you ready to be a good listener?" If they begin yelling, saying no no no again, or tantruming I will say, "When you are done, you may join the group." As soon as they re-join the group, they are led by the hand to do what they were originally told to do (whether that's sit down for lunch, walk back from the park, go potty, etc.). I say once more, "We say yes ma'am." The most stubborn child I have ever had took about 4 weeks to break of this habit. All of my daycare kids say, "Yes ma'am!" when I request something. It's polite and a nice response to hear when you NEED the child to do something.
Naturally, I have had some very loud children who protest much like your DCB does. I calmly placed them in an area that was away from the other children and said, "We do not say no. We say yes ma'am." and I walk away. After a minute, I will go and ask them, "Are you ready to be a good listener?" If they begin yelling, saying no no no again, or tantruming I will say, "When you are done, you may join the group." As soon as they re-join the group, they are led by the hand to do what they were originally told to do (whether that's sit down for lunch, walk back from the park, go potty, etc.). I say once more, "We say yes ma'am." The most stubborn child I have ever had took about 4 weeks to break of this habit. All of my daycare kids say, "Yes ma'am!" when I request something. It's polite and a nice response to hear when you NEED the child to do something.
blandino 06:53 PM 08-08-2013
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I don't allow daycare children to say no to me, to be honest with you. I NEVER request something that is unreasonable nor do I request something that is an option. If it's lunch time, it's lunch time and saying no will not change that. If it's time to go back from the park, then it's time to go back and saying no will not change that. If it's time to change our diaper/pull-up/go potty, then it's that time and saying no will not change that.
Naturally, I have had some very loud children who protest much like your DCB does. I calmly placed them in an area that was away from the other children and said, "We do not say no. We say yes ma'am." and I walk away. After a minute, I will go and ask them, "Are you ready to be a good listener?" If they begin yelling, saying no no no again, or tantruming I will say, "When you are done, you may join the group." As soon as they re-join the group, they are led by the hand to do what they were originally told to do (whether that's sit down for lunch, walk back from the park, go potty, etc.). I say once more, "We say yes ma'am." The most stubborn child I have ever had took about 4 weeks to break of this habit. All of my daycare kids say, "Yes ma'am!" when I request something. It's polite and a nice response to hear when you NEED the child to do something.
Yes. I don't allow daycare children to say no to me, to be honest with you. I NEVER request something that is unreasonable nor do I request something that is an option. If it's lunch time, it's lunch time and saying no will not change that. If it's time to go back from the park, then it's time to go back and saying no will not change that. If it's time to change our diaper/pull-up/go potty, then it's that time and saying no will not change that.
Naturally, I have had some very loud children who protest much like your DCB does. I calmly placed them in an area that was away from the other children and said, "We do not say no. We say yes ma'am." and I walk away. After a minute, I will go and ask them, "Are you ready to be a good listener?" If they begin yelling, saying no no no again, or tantruming I will say, "When you are done, you may join the group." As soon as they re-join the group, they are led by the hand to do what they were originally told to do (whether that's sit down for lunch, walk back from the park, go potty, etc.). I say once more, "We say yes ma'am." The most stubborn child I have ever had took about 4 weeks to break of this habit. All of my daycare kids say, "Yes ma'am!" when I request something. It's polite and a nice response to hear when you NEED the child to do something.
Unregistered 07:53 PM 08-08-2013
Thanks for the replies! I like the idea of bribing him with a book or something at nap time. If he has a tantrum any other time I can handle it, or remove him from the situation. I guess he really is OUT of control when he's having it, even though he knows at other times that it's not ok. Once it hits him, he's possessed. So I guess it would be ok to comfort him if nothing else works and I need him to be quiet at nap. I also like the idea of making sure he is respectful all the time, and I may have him start practicing "yes ms. _____" to me.
crazydaycarelady 08:30 PM 08-08-2013
I have a chair in my laundry room (separate but right next to the dc room, has a door also.) If I had that kid and he started screaming he would immediately go to the chair and told he could get up when he could control himself
countrymom 04:23 AM 08-09-2013
sorry at that age he knows what he's doing and he's doing it on purpose till you give in. I have a mat in the kitchen, you get to sit there till you get it together. No wonder I see kids like these now in the stores screaming their heads off, I guess its the new parenting thing.
Meeko 05:07 AM 08-09-2013
Originally Posted by countrymom:
sorry at that age he knows what he's doing and he's doing it on purpose till you give in. I have a mat in the kitchen, you get to sit there till you get it together. No wonder I see kids like these now in the stores screaming their heads off, I guess its the new parenting thing.
THIS! ^^^sorry at that age he knows what he's doing and he's doing it on purpose till you give in. I have a mat in the kitchen, you get to sit there till you get it together. No wonder I see kids like these now in the stores screaming their heads off, I guess its the new parenting thing.
He knows exactly what he's doing. He is the center of attention at nap time when he does this. He knows he's in charge of the situation and that you are frustrated. He loves that. This is a power struggle and one he should never win. There are other times and places to allow him to make choices. This is not one of them.
I would remove him from the area and place him somewhere boring and let him go at it. Tell him when he can be calm, he can come back and join the other kids. I would say it firmly and matter of fact, but not irritated, so he gets the idea that you couldn't care less and that being removed is HIS loss. Maybe praise the other children for being so quiet and tell them how big they are. Never give Mr. Tantrum a second of attention while he screams.
Take the wind out of his sails and he should learn he is wasting his time throwing a fit.
I don't agree with giving a child "special" when they have a tantrum. That just teaches them that tantrums work.
Heidi 05:16 AM 08-09-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Thanks for the replies! I like the idea of bribing him with a book or something at nap time. If he has a tantrum any other time I can handle it, or remove him from the situation. I guess he really is OUT of control when he's having it, even though he knows at other times that it's not ok. Once it hits him, he's possessed. So I guess it would be ok to comfort him if nothing else works and I need him to be quiet at nap. I also like the idea of making sure he is respectful all the time, and I may have him start practicing "yes ms. _____" to me.
It's not a bribe! It's incentive. The offer has to happen beforehand, as part of the routine. Once he starts to scream and yell, it's over with the choices. Sorry I didn't make that clear. Thanks for the replies! I like the idea of bribing him with a book or something at nap time. If he has a tantrum any other time I can handle it, or remove him from the situation. I guess he really is OUT of control when he's having it, even though he knows at other times that it's not ok. Once it hits him, he's possessed. So I guess it would be ok to comfort him if nothing else works and I need him to be quiet at nap. I also like the idea of making sure he is respectful all the time, and I may have him start practicing "yes ms. _____" to me.
I let everyone pick one item (I set the limits, though) as part of my naptime routine. It just takes the "sting" out for some kids.
Play Care 05:45 AM 08-09-2013
I have his twin in my day care
What worked here was to make sure I was giving him positive attention and praise when he was good. I'll be honest, the fits were driving me nuts and I was hard pressed to find any of the "good"
So I had to make a concerted effort to give him the attention he was craving, but when he was behaving.
The BEST thing I ever did was to designate a "crying/screaming" spot in my child care. I will NOT comfort a child who is mid fit because he was told to "stop" or told "no." Now, a child who is genuinely frustrated and therefore getting to a point he may tantrum will be met with understanding and gentle suggestions. But that's the extent.
What worked here was to make sure I was giving him positive attention and praise when he was good. I'll be honest, the fits were driving me nuts and I was hard pressed to find any of the "good"
So I had to make a concerted effort to give him the attention he was craving, but when he was behaving. The BEST thing I ever did was to designate a "crying/screaming" spot in my child care. I will NOT comfort a child who is mid fit because he was told to "stop" or told "no." Now, a child who is genuinely frustrated and therefore getting to a point he may tantrum will be met with understanding and gentle suggestions. But that's the extent.