So in the "What happened to you that was good" thread I had mentioned that my daughter's aunt had put in her notice with no two weeks (just as she had before) and that I found a family to replace her two kids that same weekend. Come Monday night she called to say she wanted to finish her two weeks afterall and I had to tell her that I couldn't because the new family was starting the next day and that would put me over my limit (she gave me a written notice Friday evening with a last date of care for that same day).

So anyway, new kids started yesterday (2 year-old girl and 6 month-old boy). I know that kids need time to adjust but these kids are both awful cryers. They just moved here from another city and grandma was taking care of them before and man oh man! She did a number on these two. 2 yo dcg cries because she misses mom, because she forgot her bear, because her shoe strap became unbuckled, because she wants water, because she doesn't want anymore water, because she wants a toy, because she doesn't want to nap etc. And this is just from 10am until now. Now i'm a firm but fair person and most kids get it within the first day but she has tried my every nerve. She has this cry that sounds like a yodle and is just annoying. At nap I had to sit by her because she kept getting up (while yodling) and I had to lay her down firmly every time. She finally got the point but kept crying. She's asleep now and even in her sleep she's doing this pouty sniffle thing.

The 6 mo dcb only wants to be held. He has a bad habit of wanting to grab your skin and ripping it off. No matter how you hold him he wants to grip your skin and scratch it or pull. I know he's just an infant and doesn't know any better and that's why I get frustrated, because there's nothing I can do. I just keep removing his hands and say "Ow" firmly and shake my head ... then he cries because he wants to keep ripping my skin off. It's a screaming cry that I'm sure have the neighbors worried that I've hung him by his toes and have begun skinning his flesh slowly with a cheese grater. I have NEVER heard an infant cry like this. The first time I heard it I thought I had somehow hurt him and pulled every piece of clothing off to search for a wound... nothing. He thought it was funny then immediate began laughing. I keep him from pulling my skin and he resorts to pulling his own skin which makes him scream bloody murder. He has probably cried like this for about 2 1/2 hours total in the past 4 hours. I can't hold him the whole time obviously. I have activities to do, meals to prepare and another infant to feed and change. I dont like swings but I will resort to buying one and strapping this kid in there every time he starts crying. Time out for a 6 mo old?? ARRGG. And now I remember why I kept the other family around even though they've threatened to leave and have given notice before, tell my daughter's dad everything that's going on (my daughter is not my fiance's child), is nosey and rude ... I hate the adjustment period.

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Oh Hun I hope it gets better!! Good luck!!

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Ouch!! Maybe you could try turning him around when you hold him? Or give him some tummy time by laying him on something he can pick at? Sorry, I can't think of anything else.

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I know I can't either. I have literally tried everything. When I hold him towards me he pinches my shoulders, upper arms, neck and face. If I turn him around to face outwards he pinches my lower arms and hands. He's also a squirmer so he wiggles alot so I have to grab with both arms and he then gets the other arm too . I try the hip hold and he gets my neck, chest and stomache. I even tried the football hold but he gets my arms, hips and upper thighs. I put gloves on him and all that did was keep him from scratching me, he still pinches ... very hard. He's very strong and even shakes from the force he makes from grabbing. He tenses and locks up. I tried my daughters thick cotton socks next ... helps some but still pinches and leaves marks on my arms. If he isn't pinching me, he isn't crying. I almost want to let him pinch me just to get him to stop. Any ideas would be most welcome.

The crying is endless. I put him down on his tummy in a nest (my nest is made up of a simple blanket on the floor surrounded with pillows) and spread toys out around him in hopes that he'll start to try to crawl or roll towards them. Of course there are toys close to him that he can reach but he cries. Wails actually. Like bloody murder. I flip him over on his back and he cries harder . I immediately flipped him back again. I'm going to try to get one of those little rug things that come with the toys that hang down. I have no idea what they are called but I've never needed one lol. All of the other babies ive cared for (including my own) always did well during tummy time. I talk and coo and sing to him... I rub his back, his belly, his head, his ears ... nothing. Still cries. I finally got him to lay down and nap so I could eat something and he woke up in a good mood at 3:15. Hasn't cried yet but I don't want to jinx it. He's on the floor wedged between the L-shape of the couch and some pillows wearing thick white socks on his hands and arms scratching a baby doll to death.

I really am at a loss for solutions lol.

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I would ask the parents if he does this at home. If he doesn't, it might just be a stress response that will fade as he gets used to you and your home. If he does, he might have some real issues. I've never heard of a baby doing this before. I'm thinking maybe something neurological.

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Yes....it....does.......

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Yeah, this sucks for you!!!!!! What I have resorted to when this happens to all the children- place the baby in a pack and play- sound like seperation anxiety,teething, or colicy- If a baby doesn't stop crying, they are laid down for their naps- As for the 2 yr. old, I would place her in time out as well, if you have to place her in a time out room, until she stops, or ? I have a 4 yr. old that has never been away from Mom- I only have her as a fillin, but everytime she comes here, which has been 3 times now- wow!! All she does is cry here- she literally cries pretty much the whole day, while we are eating, doing activities, watching a movie,outside, I cannot get her to stop, I started placing her in the time out room, and warn her each time, do you want to go back in the time out room? Then she stops for a little bit and that starts right back up. She also cries during naptime- Mom says she hasn't taken a nap since she has been 18 months old- she does here!! The first and second time she cried the entire time- the 3rd - she did sleep about an hr. and that is it, then woke up everyone else!!! I haven't had her back, and that is really good, she disrupts everything, I have going. If her Mom does call me back, I think I will tell her I definately cannot take her if she is going to cry here all day. It is totally not worth it!!!!!!!!

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I think I started that same 18 mo. old today. She screamed from 8am to 5pm. I let her go for a while figuring she would get distracted with the other kids and the toys. I finally put her in the pack and play and let her cry. I told her I would come get her when she stopped crying. This went on for hours. Finally by the end of the day she was a little better. Tomorrow should be interesting. One thing I am grateful for is that I don't have a problem putting a baby down in a crib/pack and play and walking away. I know the baby is safe and after 3 days. (always 3, never 4 never 2) Life is good. The kids love me at that point and the only time they cry is when mom shows up to pick them up. 1 day down, 2 miserable days to go. Hang in there! You will make it!! (me too, lol)

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I must have approved 20 moderated "unregistered" posts today. You might want to think about Registering! I would make my life a little easier and you wouldn't have to wait for your comments to get approval. Just sayin

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Hmmmm

First I would document this and give it to the Mom. This is abnormal although I have seen some versions of this before in a little bit older babies. I would make sure that she discusses this with his doc asap. Rule out any medical reason for this.

If I was certain there wasn't a medical reason for this, I would make it my mission to stop the pinching and clawing. I would get a long sleeved t-shirt and sew the sleeves shut at the wrists. Make sure it's about a size too big for him so it's long enough in the arms to fully cover his hands and have room to put layers underneath.

I would put four/five pairs of socks over his hands if that's what it took to have enough material so that he couldn't scratch and pinch. Then I would put the long sleeved sewn shirt OVER the socks. I would do as many layers as it took to make it physically impossible for him to pinch or claw.

He needs TIME every day where he stimulates himself with the scratching movements and pinching movements and NOTHING happens. The only way to get it to stop is to make it so it's not working. You may have to do that for a couple of months. Anytime you are not holding him take it off and put it on him whenever you are doing any direct physical contact. ANY time you have to hold him they need to be covered... fully completely covered with THICK layers.

There is a possibility that having his hands covered may really settle him down. I've had kids before who just needed the swaddling on their hands to de-escalate them. Once their fingers and hands were covered their whole body just relaxed. He needs TIME to relax. When his hands are uncovered is when he physcially just has access to stuff like the carpet or sheet in his bed. Watch that though because he may start ripping whatever he can touch. Check them every day so that he doesn't have access to any material fragments or pieces.

I would do a substantial amount of belly time. He's old enough to do it five/six times a day. It's okay if he fusses. He's just exercising his little self. Have at it. Having a good amount of "exercise" time may be what he needs to do to drain off the excess energy he has that is contributing to the constant stimulating he's doing with the clawing and scratching. You may see a dramatic decrease in the pinching, clawing etc. when he has a SIGNIFICANT amount of belly time.

You may want to swaddle his whole body with his hands swaddled in the shirt/sock thing too while you are feeding him. You may find that he just doesn't have what it takes to settle himself down and the layers on his hands and the swaddling blanket will really chill him out. The better he eats, the more he exercises, the better he naps.. the happier the baby.

It's rough going after they have been at Grandmas. Its the worst possible transition in all of day care scenarios. I would rather have an attachment baby who had been with Mom 24/7 then have two kids who just came from daily care from Grandma. It sounds like they are a handful and she didn't know how to cope with them. She's probably in a mental hospital somewhere now with bandages from head to toe from all the abuse she's had from these two.

With the two year old... she has ONE job in your world and that's to GO PLAY TOYS. I would have her world be very small with VERY little to ZERO adult generated activities. She needs to focus on the toys and the playing with the other kids. I would have her on a go play toys plan from the second she hit the door till she was ready to walk out the door. I wouldn't do ANY group activities or any activity at all that involved an adult. She needs to "be one" with the other kids and the toys. Stay out of it till she gets it.

When she asks for Mommy tell her "I want Mommy too... go play toys"
When she cries for her bear tell her "No bear... go play toys"
When she does or says anything.. acknowledge it if it's legit and then say "go play toys.
When she doesn't want a nap say "you night night"

When you DO see her entertaining herself for a GOOD amount of times then give her a wink and a nod and say "you toys... sweeet". Then go about your way.

Keep the interactions with her short, sweet, and to the point. She needs to make her way in the world of group care and your job is to insist that she does.

I feel for you. I just brought an eleven month old into our fold and he was very lost for the first week or so. He was with me for two weeks then I went on Holiday for ten days. He came back and just fit right in even though he had been away from me for a while.

He was a very unhappy little dude and was very needy. Now he's a bouncin, flouncin, nappin, playin, eatin, happy little monster like the rest of his mates. You couldn't pick the little devil out of my group if I paid ya fifty bucks. He acts like he's been here his whole life.

He came from a day care that just could not handle him. I felt his disorganization and frentic energy from the second I touched him. I knew intrinsically what he needed but it didn't come easy. I had to devote a lot of resources here to get him to go native but I did it in a very short amount of time. Be committed and stay focused on the BIGGIES... eat well, sleep well, play well, exercise, don't suck the life out of the adult, and be good to your mates.

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hmm...maybe i'll start posting as unregistered. what fun would it be without making it as hard as possible for u?

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Yeah the cryers are the worst JMO. Like I said, I almost feel like letting 6mo DCB scratch and pull at me just to get him to stop. I figured the crying was colic or teething. I couldn't give him a frozen banana (he hasn't been introduced to solid foods yet only baby jar food) so I stuck some ice cubes in a zip-lock bag and gave it to him OMG he stopped crying!! Okay so I have one issue figured out. His mom came by and I asked about the grabbing. She says he does this at home too and she forgot to tell me. Ok so he does it at home ... Great ... now I'm worried. The only thing to do is keep correcting him when he does it. He'll eventually learn right?!

As for the little girl she's just spoiled and still transitioning. I have to tell her several times to do things. She pretty much cried when she didn't get her way. It's getting better at least. She would cry for water and i'd just tell her that I couldn't understand when people asked me for things and they were crying. She has a very good vocabulary for being 2 (she'll be 3 in July). "When you have finished crying come back and use your words to tell me what you want" and just walked away. I am not one of those that submits to whining and tantrums. She would cry for another 5 minutes and then stop and walk over and ask me for water. She would even say please. I immediately gave her a huge smile and gave her a very loud and happy "Of course you can!"
She's still cry but as the day wore on her spurts got shorter and she didn't have to be reminded to ask me politely. I talked this over with mom also and another dc baby (9mo) walked over near her mom (we were on the floor at eye level with the 2yo DCG) and she said "That's my mommy!" and then kicked out towards the 9mo. She didn't kick him hard but did manage to make contact and he teetered and landed on his butt. He didn't cry or anything and I was about to say something when mom took control. "______! NO! You do NOT do that! That is not acceptable! Do you hear me?!" She was very stern and very firm. She takes 2yo by sholders as she is saying it and holds on tight while looking right at her. "What do you say?!" Then 2yo apologizes to 9mo old. Mom apologized to me and grabs her kiddos and practically drags 2yo behind her. I could hear her scolding her 2yo from the driveway. Well at least I know it's not the moms fault she's the way she is. Thank God! That means her behavior can be corrected. Feeling a little better. They won;t be here tomorrow but we'll see how Friday turns out.

PS: I forgot to say that I tried the whole body swaddling, I mean what baby doesn't like to be swaddled? I thought for sure he just needed to feel safe and secure but instead of mellowing out he screamed out even harder and wiggled and swirmed against the baby blanket. He was really pissed that I had wrapped him up!! I thought he was going to pop a vein in his head! I'll try several layers of socks next.

As for the pack n plays ... unfortunately it's against licensing regulations in CA to put a kid in a pack n play or crib unless they are already asleep. Once they wake up I have to pull them out again. I resorted to putting him on the floor and letting him cry-it-out for a few minutes.

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Done, thanks.

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It blows me away to read these forums and hear these stories. I can't tell you the last time I ever saw a kid hit or kick in my house. It's been years. Many many years.

It would be a frosty Friday before a kid who was with me all day long even ONE day felt comfortable kicking one of my babies. Wouldn't happen.

That would be there very last day at my house. You hit my babies and you are GONE.

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Can you post a link to that reg?

This just for pack n plays or is for cribs too?

What about play yards?

If it's for both then that effectively says that you can't have a kid put themselves to sleep. If they can't be confined before sleep then that means that you either have to lull them to sleep by holding, walking, or rocking or wait till they do the "drop dead Fred" somewhere in the play area.

That's brilliant.

Here's how my kids go to bed. My Staff Assistant and I put them into their pack n plays (I have Jmason's) completely WIDE awake, we walk out of the room, shut off the light, shut the doors and the room goes quiet. They are all asleep within a few minutes. Sometimes the bigger kids will lay and whisper to each other but 9 days out of 10 they just crash out.

I NEVER lull children to sleep. I always put them to bed wide awake every day. I don't rock kids. I don't do ANYTHING to help them go to sleep. I just give them a full morning of play.. a good healthy meal to fill their bellies.. and excellent companionship with their friends I can't imagine having to wait until they passed out to put them to bed.

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You know what gets my goat? I looked up title 22 to get the quote for you (I had a general idea where the regulation should be but had never looked it up) and I found nothing that said anything about pack n plays or cribs ... nothing. I found the place that talked about the walkers and somewhere near there should have been where the regulation should have been about the sleeping in pack n plays and such. The reason I even knew about it was because licensing told me about it. So what gets me is that I hate it that every time that someone comes for an inspection I get told something different. I need to start checking the regulations myself instead of taking their word for it. I'm calling them tomorrow. There are a lot of things that I found rediculous that they have asked of me that I have followed through on but did not see ANY of it in the regulations. How are we as providers supposed to know what the regulations are if they are not posted on the licensing website??

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It's tough in CA. MarinaVanessa - what you are finding on ccld.ca.gov for title 22 is the state standards, but each county is allowed to interpret those regs as they choose. So, each county or regional area really has it's own set of standards that we don't see. If a licensing agent does not like something in your program, they can "interpret" the regs to cite you with a violation - and if you do not challenge it through legal channels, you have to just accept it.

My county allows us to put the children in Pak and Plays, but we are not allowed to leave them out of sight/sound, and we cannot use bouncers, exersaucers, walkers, doorway bouncers/swings, etc. But, I have heard of many counties that do not allow children to be in pak and plays unless sleeping - because it is not CCLD Regulations, you COULD challenge that if you were ever cited, and you'd likely win.

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To the original topic....

Sounds like Mom is on the same page in regards to not allowing bad behavior....glad to see she did not allow her daughter to get away with mistreating the baby.

The baby sounds like he is REALLY stressed out, which will work itself out most likely, given time to transition - but if it goes on too long, at home and at daycare, I would consider other possibilities. He may have a sensory processing disorder, which would have to be diagnosed by a specialist. His "behaviors" indicate signs of SPD - so I would document it and conduct an informal assessment to decide if I should refer Mom to outside resources.

Some of the techniques, such as the layers of socks over the hands, that Nanny advised could prove very effective. Another thing to try, in the case of SPD, would be to "brush" his hands. If you have a baby brush, or even something a bit stiffer, gently brush his hands, tops and palms, for a few minutes. This stimulates the nerve endings and rids him of the need to pinch. Sounds wierd I know, but I had a little boy who had SPD, and this worked WONDERS for him.

Of course, there are LOTS of things it could be, but those are a couple of things that came to mind

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Hmm, that makes sense I guess ... and in a way it doesn't (but that's the county for you). I live in Ventura county and I've been told that:
-sleeping babies in cribs and pack n plays only.
-can leave them in another room sleeping but have to be checked on every 15 minutes.
-no bouncers, excersaucers, walkers, doorway bouncers/swings.
-regular swings ok but they can't be sleeping in them.
-Kids in carseats always (obviously) but can't leave a child in a carseat if the car is stopped even if the child is sleeping and/or you take the carseat out and bring it in to the house with you. Actually you can't leave children in a parked car period even if you are with them (this one I did find in the regulations).
-Children in high-chairs must be eating otherwise they can't be in there even if you are preparing food (I throw a handful of cheerios on the tray while I prepare food). I'm sure there is more but I can't think of any right now.

I'm still calling tomorrow.

I thought of this also and have already started to write everything down. I'll look into it some more and do some more research before I approach the parents. I even thought about contacting someone to come by and observe him here if it continues past 2 weeks but unfortunately I can't do that without the parent's permission so I want to make sure that I have concrete proof before approaching them.

I have already decided to try the layering of the socks the next time he is here. I don't have long sleeve outfits for the baby since it's been so hot but I figure that I can put a couple pairs of my daughters socks on his hands and then put a pair of my own tube socks over them to cover all the way to his arms. He hasn't managed to roll my daughter's socks down yet so maybe it would work until then. I tried socks on his hands today but layers of socks is brilliant.

I'll try this also and see if it helps. I caress him with my hands but that doesn't calm him down. I'll try it with his baby brush.

Thanks for the ideas gals.

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Crystal,

Can you supply the regulation that allows this?

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No Nanny...that's the thing. They can and do interpret things as they choose....if you end up with a violation, it is up to the provider to challenge it and prove that it is not in the Ca. regulations. I think that if it's not in the regs, and a county licensor gives you a citation anyway, it SHOULD be fairly easy to challenge and win.

Another thing that Ca. does is, due to budgets, they no longer (and haven't for some time) send providers updates when regs change. It is up to the provider to check the website regularly for any changes. I check once a month, just in case - I don't want to get in trouble because I wasn't aware of a change.

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Yup and even then within the same county it looks like it depends on each licensing worker individually and what they believe to be correct or incorrect. When I had my initial walkthrough it went very quickly and very smoothly. She even complimented my baby proofing and said that everything was great and that she hadn't seen a house this safe ever.

The next time I had licensing come by she was a royal pain in my behind. She complained about having knives on my counter and them not being locked up ... I reminded her that I have a safety gate up to keep the kids out of the kitchen and that even if I didn't they were not within reach of any young child (my own 8 year-old nephew can't even reach them). She complained that my solvents and cleaners were not locked up and that neither was my under-sink cabinet ... I explained that my solvents and cleaners are on a high shelf above the pantry and that even I have to get a stool to get anything and sometimes I have to climb on the counter to reach the one's in the middle and back and that under the sink there is nothing dangerous, just paper towel rolls, terry cloths, toilet paper and disposable dishes and plastic ware. She also complained that my medicine cabinets don't have locks on them ... but there isn't any medicine or even sunblock and stuff like that in there so WTH?? She ended up leaving without giving me any kind of citation but was all huffy and puffy.

The next time someone came in I was told that kids should not be sleeping on the couch because they could fall down and hurt themselves. The last time someone from licensing came I was told that they could . Looks to me like it all depends on each individuals opinion rather than any real set regulations.

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I swear I have never heard a "yodle" cry, in all my 25 years of caring for children (2 years professionally)! I come from a huge (150+ people) extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins - on down). I almost want you to record that cry because I'm very curious. Trust me, I believe you completely! I'm just a little intrigued. But then again, maybe I don't want to hear it!! LOL!

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I did record it actually ... on my phone. My fiance called me to check on me and he just laughed when I told him she had yodled so I recorded it to let him hear it. I also recorded the little one. He was speechless in both cases.

If I had a way to take it from my phone and put it on the internet I'd provide a link just so you could hear it. Then all you'd have to do it put it on repeat and let it play for 45 minutes and you'd get what I go through lol. They're not here today but they'll be back tomorrow. I'll see if I can find a mic and record it with my laptop lol.

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Okay so Friday is finally over. Looks like 2 yo is really getting it that I make the rules and that I don't acknowledge crying and whining. She did MUCH better today. Even nap time was better. She immediately laid down and after 30minutes she did finally sleep. One time today she started to cry but I ignored it and she did stop and repeat herself calmy and said please.

The 6 mo however is deffinetely teething. Slobber all over everything lol. Can see two little buds today. Mom said he fussed with her yesterday and she brought me tylenol and a prescription ... god bless the mom. Had the waiver signed and voahlah! I only had to give it once today which was good. Nothing else at the time seemed to work, terry cloths, ice cubes, froxen teethers, teething toys. Last resort was tylenol. Baby just wants to be in arms tho. Sorry buddy ... gotta do tummy time ... have other kids also.

The scratching thing worked out better today. Put 2 pair of my daughter's socks on his hands and tube socks up to his arms. He still hasn't managed to roll or pull them down so that's great. Socks seem to work. He can't actually pull anything anymore so looks like he's beginning to lose interest. Was mad as hell at first though. I tried the brush thing on his hands and arms thing but he just wanted to take the brush and put it in his mouth. Not really paying attention to how it feels on him. I think the soft bristles helped his gums tho lol (don't worry, new brush and has already been through the disinfectant cycle).
So far so good.

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glad to hear it! hopefully things only get better!!

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