Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Parents and Guardians Forum>Provider Does Not Allow Make Up Days
Unregistered 03:28 PM 10-11-2012
I'm curious to know if others have experienced this and how you have resolved it if at all. Our child attends family daycare four times a week. With the holiday this week, it was three days but then he was sick two days and could not attend. We paid our regular weekly tuition even though he attended one day out of four. This is fine. But then I asked the provider if i could bring him the day he usually is not in care, to partly make up for the days I missed work because I had to keep him at home. She said no because it wasn't his regular day. Accepting him for the make up day would not have made her go over her limits and I'm feeling disappointed that she could not be more flexible...especially since I really need that day to catch up on my work. Do any providers on this forum know if there are policies that dictate why she made the decision she did. My feeling is - especially since we have a good relationship - that she should have dealt with us on a more human level rather than a business / policy level. And of course, it stings to have to pay close to $300 for one day of care. Any thoughts? Any suggestions about how I may communicate about this with my provider.
Reply
MrsSteinel'sHouse 04:42 PM 10-11-2012
I would say it depends on what your contract says. I have parents that pay for a full week and only use 3 days most weeks. Their schedules vary so they need all days available. If your contracted for the 4 days and your provider has made that clear in your contract then that is what you contracted for. She may have had other plans. I homeschool my son so I do have some days that I purposely don't fill so that I can "catch up" with him on those days. Does she generally offer you the 5th day at a drop in rate?
Sick days for kids are part life. I know that I can not refund or give credit for sick days. I still planned on having your child. I can't suddenly fill your spot.
I don't know if you can broach this with your provider unless if you ask her if you needed her the fifth day, what would she charge you. But, I wouldn't expect her to switch days. Or you could pay her for the full week and have the fifth day at your disposal to use or not use.
Reply
lovemykidstoo 05:01 PM 10-11-2012
The only policies there would be regarding this issue is with your own provider. I have an in-home family daycare and I charge people for the position not on time used at my daycare as well. Having said that, in your situation if I had another day that was available, I would have let you pick up that day as a replacement for the holiday or the sick day. I think that if you tell your provider exactly what you wrote here, she might rethink her position. I don't see the harm in being a little flexible and compasionate to people's situation. Some people don't like to waiver off their policies though. Sometimes people are just plain too rigid and sometimes they're afraid to be flexible because there are people out there that take advantage of a providers generosity.
Reply
daycarediva 05:05 PM 10-11-2012
This should be something that you discussed at interview. I do not switch days for a family with regularly scheduled days. I have two PT families that pay for FT spots and two PT families that pay for 3 days, and add days as needed, IF they are available. I have three drop in kids who know my available days. If another kid is out sick, I have no way to replace them on short notice.

It isn't her fault that your son was sick. She was ready, willing and available to provide care that day. She should be paid. If she was to add an additional day, she should be paid for it.

You are paying for a spot. It is like a reservation on your provider's time & resources. If you don't use your reservation, you don't get to add a free day.

Also, even if the provider WANTS to give you a 'break' she has most likely been taken advantage of in the past and refuses to allow it to happen again. Even for families that I absolutely adore, I find it very important to NEVER blur lines or do favors and stick to the contract. It keeps our relationship professional and the expectations of each other set. I have done favors in the past. I gave a current daycare family three free days when their son was out sick and they were going through financial difficulties. Now EVERY TIME that dcb is out sick, they EXPECT it to be free.
Reply
Heidi 05:06 PM 10-11-2012
I agree with PP. For me, I would not let you make up ALL the days, but if I was able to acommidate one of them, I'd probably do it.

I think sometimes some of us are afraid to bend at all because of the old "give em and inch..." People then tend to expect "special" each and every time.

When I make an exception, I tell people "I am making an exception. Please don't expect it every time" that usually works for me. I have in the past had people who would ask every single time...but I do know how to say NO too!
Reply
Unregistered 05:13 PM 10-11-2012
My son goes to daycare 2 full days per week. He has had many sick days and no, we are not allowed to make up the day. We also pay for 3 weeks vacation and when the provider take days off for state required classes. She also closes on school closing, due to snow. We still pay, even if the weather clears up. We live in Massachusetts and have one of the highest childcare rates in the country. I don't mind paying though. We picked quality over anything else. We did view one daycare down the road who didn't take sick days and rarely closed. She also kept the tv on during the whole interview and left cigarettes out on her back deck. I am really easy going, but I figured if that was going on when I was there.... Who knows what went on when I wasn't. All in all, we probably pay for 6 weeks of unused childcare. It's all part of having a child...
Reply
lovemykidstoo 05:16 PM 10-11-2012
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
. I have done favors in the past. I gave a current daycare family three free days when their son was out sick and they were going through financial difficulties. Now EVERY TIME that dcb is out sick, they EXPECT it to be free.
This is exactly why I said above that sometimes providers are not willing to be flexible or do someone a favor. Sometimes providers have been flexible and have gotten burned.
Reply
cheerfuldom 07:03 PM 10-11-2012
check your contract and make sure you know what her policies are....and then dont be surprised or offended when she sticks to her contract. no matter how much we enjoy our daycare families or feel for their particular situations, daycare is still a business. we cant be swayed by every parent with a difficult situation or every parent that wants something different. its not personal. please also consider her side of things....if something happened where she was not able to work and it was outlined that she wouldnt be paid for that time (for instance, if she takes an unpaid holiday, had an emergency and had to close, had a medical crisis and had to take some time off), would you still pay her because you felt bad for her? i think not. you dont base payments in a business relationship off of personal situations....you base it off of the agreement that you made before beginning the business arrangement.
Reply
Heidi 07:49 PM 10-11-2012
just thinking about this a little more...I thought about another perspective....

If you were at work, and you are getting certain salary/benefits etc, would you really be "ok" with your employer saying "so, hey, we don't need you for a few days...you don't mind if we have you take that time off unpaid, do you? You can work a little extra when we do need you to make up for it..."


It's not exactly the same...and I know there are employers who do that...but you woulddn't be like this..... about it
Reply
Meyou 02:56 AM 10-12-2012
I would have allowed you to add the extra day for my drop in fee in addition to your regular fees but I wouldn't have allowed a switch. IMO I'm working regardless of your attendance and your tuition is based on a schedule we previously discussed. I've budgeted for that tuition and like your paycheck I depend on that tuition to support my family.
Reply
DBug 04:12 AM 10-12-2012
I've had similar situations, and I've always charged for the additional day. For example, one little girl used to come everyday buy Thursday, and her parents paid for 4 days/week. When she was sick on the Monday, they still paid for it, but asked if she could come on the Thursday too. I didn't have a reason not to (I was still within ratios, etc), so she came and they paid the daily rate on top of their regular rate that week.

It all depends on the contract. I'm with the others in that if you have a contract, you need to abide by it. What if your provider normally didn't charge for her own sick days but took one and expected you to pay for it, because she wanted to be treated like a person instead of like a business?

Next time, you could offer to pay her an hourly rate for the extra day on top of your regular amount. Maybe that would help?
Reply
lovemykidstoo 04:25 AM 10-12-2012
Wow, I guess I'm the minority here in saying I would switch the day. The parent is willing to pay for the days even though he wasn't there. That's not the issue really. The provider is not asked to sacrifice money. I don't really see the harm in saying the child could come on Thursday instead of Monday. The provider is not doing any more work because the provider was already working Monday. I know that daycares are businesses, but I guess that some must have had really bad experiences with people because from what I can see in several posts is that people don't budge one bit. I must be really fortunate in that I have had a couple of issues, but nothing too bad. I find that a little compassion can go a long way. I would rather do someone a favor once in awhile when really it isn't hurting the provider at all financially. The parent might remember that when they hear of someone looking for a daycare. The parent might not be so quick to recommend the provider if they are too rigid. Don't get me wrong, like I said, if a provider has been burned before, then that is a reason why they wouldn't be so willing to budge a bit. Every case is different and maybe just asking the provider, hey have you had a problem doing this type of thing before and explain that you wouldn't take advantage of her.
Reply
Crystal 07:20 AM 10-12-2012
I would accomodate the OP. Although I wouldn't be REQUIRED to, as per my policies, I have found over the years that being flexible reaps great rewards - wonderfully respectful and accomodating families (my families are NEVER upset or question me when I need to close early or take a day off and do LOTS of stuff for me) , I always run at capacity with a wait list - all word of mouth/referrals from current and previous clients, and my families show their appreciation for me on a daily basis.

OP, I agree with you. You have had a respectful relationship with your provdider and if she had space to accomodate your child so that you could work (READ: keep her job ) then. as a show of good will and appreciating YOU as a paying, appreciative client, I would have been more than happy to oblige. I wish your provider saw it that way too - sorry for you that she didn't.
Reply
Cat Herder 07:24 AM 10-12-2012
On a 4 day schedule, typically the other day belongs to someone else.

Switching is not possible because of ratios regulated by each state.

Tuition rates per child are generally based on the number of slots available and the total amount of the providers monthly bills.

The providers bills stays the same regardless of attendance, holidays, school closures, sick days or weather days.

Dealing on a "human level" needs to work in both directions.

To clarify the last statement: If you are the type of parent that pays the provider for her sick days without being asked then it is fair to expect her to give you another day for one missed occasionally. If you are the type who wants their "moneys worth" then I can see your provider not being willing to work with you. It really is very individual in each working relationship, IFKWIM? I have some clients I would move the world for, others I can't give an inch.
Reply
youretooloud 07:43 AM 10-12-2012
I am very flexible, and I would have allowed it. But, only the one day, not three days worth. (basically i'd make up the holiday only)

I've been taken advantage of so many times. The families I have gone out of my way for the most are the ones who want to make my job the hardest. So, it's not like we are really excited about doing it once. (for fear that the parents will want another break on tuition)

Honestly, if it weren't for the few parents who take advantage, I bet most providers would be a lot more willing to be flexible.
Reply
providerandmomof4 07:46 AM 10-12-2012
[quote=Cat Herder;272738]On a 4 day schedule, typically the other day belongs to someone else.

Switching is not possible because of ratios regulated by each state.

Tuition rates per child are generally based on the number of slots available and the total amount of the providers monthly bills.

The providers bills stays the same regardless of attendance, holidays, school closures, sick days or weather days.

I own a licensed home daycare and my policy is similar to the above post. I generally do not let clients switch days. I provide care for the times set forth in our contract. What parents sometimes don't understand is that I am open and caring for other children even if your child is sick. I do not give free days but I don't have parents pay for my days off or vacation. (I have only taken 1 sick day in the last three yrs). I cannot run a business unless I can expect payment, and parents do not have to worry that I will not be available for their scheduled slots--I always am!
Reply
Unregistered 08:23 AM 10-12-2012
Thanks everyone who replied to the thread. It was important to hear that sometimes providers are inflexible because of experiences they've had with parents who took advantage. That makes sense. She has been doing this a long time and I'm sure that she has had many negative experiences. I guess what I take issue with is some of the things raised by "lovemykidstoo". First, I was not suggesting that I should pay less that week. Second, her inflexibility has tarnished a bit our sense of good will. I do feel like working on a human level works both ways. We agreed to pay for her 2 weeks of vacation. I know people who would prefer to look for someone else before paying this. She had an open slot and could have accommodated my child. In fact, she is under ratio even on the days when all children attend. The crux of the issue is that there is nothing in our contract that dictates make up days either way. Therefore, I thought that she would do it out of courtesy because my child being there would not have changed anything for her. In fact, if she budgeted (in terms of lunch, and snacks, for example) that my child would be there four days and he was only there once, there was a surplus in her budget (if we were to look at this in purely transactional terms).
Reply
EntropyControlSpecialist 08:50 AM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
I would say it depends on what your contract says. I have parents that pay for a full week and only use 3 days most weeks. Their schedules vary so they need all days available. If your contracted for the 4 days and your provider has made that clear in your contract then that is what you contracted for. She may have had other plans. I homeschool my son so I do have some days that I purposely don't fill so that I can "catch up" with him on those days. Does she generally offer you the 5th day at a drop in rate?
Sick days for kids are part life. I know that I can not refund or give credit for sick days. I still planned on having your child. I can't suddenly fill your spot.
I don't know if you can broach this with your provider unless if you ask her if you needed her the fifth day, what would she charge you. But, I wouldn't expect her to switch days. Or you could pay her for the full week and have the fifth day at your disposal to use or not use.
Exactly this.
Reply
itlw8 09:22 AM 10-12-2012
You said she would be over limits if she took your child. So there is another child in that spot on the day you wanted

so she could tell that parent they had to stay home from work so you could come

she could have risked losing her license for being over limit.Do you want a provider that does not follow the regulations.

Or she could say I am sorry your child was sick on his day to come. Thank you for not spreading the germs. I will see you monday there is no room for your child on Fridays.

You contracted Monday - Thursday with paid holidays Sorry someone else has contracted for the day you did not want

Sorry I just reread and saw it would not put her over her legal limits but it may have changed the plans she can make with one less child. What is the solution? You contract for the full week instead of 4 days or you pay the drop in rate for the extra day so you can go get some work done.
Reply
itlw8 09:28 AM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
In fact, if she budgeted (in terms of lunch, and snacks, for example) that my child would be there four days and he was only there once, there was a surplus in her budget (if we were to look at this in purely transactional terms).
Sorry that extra food she fixed from her budget was eaten by the other children as seconds. And really if it was not would you really want your child eating leftovers for Tuesday and not what the others are eating because it was budgeted on Tuesday?
Reply
SunshineMama 09:48 AM 10-12-2012
I don't think the provider is obligated at all to switch days. Maybe the day you wanted to switch, she had alternate plans, or she had a hard week and needed the day to have a regular schedule. Maybe she has been taken advantage of in the past.

Don't take it personally, she runs a business. You are contracted for a certain day and spot, and if you don't use it that's not her problem. If she chooses to, that's another story, but you shouldn't feel upset by it at all.

I had someone want to switch days on me this week. From my POV, I didn't want an extra kid on a Friday bc they chose not to come on a Wednesday. Fridays are my "easy" days and I didn't want to switch and watch a child who is typically more difficult. I also didn't want to set the tone for being taken advantage of. Once you give an inch, most people take a mile and then come to expect it.
Reply
MrsSteinel'sHouse 09:59 AM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
Sorry that extra food she fixed from her budget was eaten by the other children as seconds. And really if it was not would you really want your child eating leftovers for Tuesday and not what the others are eating because it was budgeted on Tuesday?
I thought that too I have already bought the food, it was already spent before you ever called off. You wouldn't want me to one day not feed your child because I didn't have enough thinking, well someone is sure to call off this week. In fact, I plan not only on your child eating but eating extra on some days and I am kind enough to be sure I always have more than enough. I prepare all of my meals. I don't use frozen dinners (how gross of a thought is that) so that, yes, I could leave your child's in the freezer for another day.
Reply
Blackcat31 10:15 AM 10-12-2012
If I were the provider in this situation, I would;

Gladly switch days IF: 1) it weren't something you regularly did/asked for or expected, 2) you were a great family with a good history of open communication, timely payments and following my policies and 3) I had the open space to accommodate your child without going over licensing capacities.

I would NOT do it if: 1) you frequently tried to bend, ignore or disregard my regular policies, 2) had a history of late payment and/or 3) simply EXPECTED me to accommodate without necessarily asking me.

I honestly understand that providers have rules and such because of past experiences with being burned but IMHO, each family should have it's own reputation based on their own behaviors and just as I wouldn't want to be viewed as "just like ALL child care providers" based on a family's bad experience with another provider, I don't want to view a family that way based on my past bad experiences with families.

Seems like much too much fuss about something that could have been dealt with easily and quickly with a little open communication between provider and family.

Plus, I don't think this is really a situation that could potentially "burn" the provider if the parents are generally a good daycare family. Sounds like it could have been an ideal way to build good business relations.
Reply
lovemykidstoo 11:12 AM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
If I were the provider in this situation, I would;

Gladly switch days IF: 1) it weren't something you regularly did/asked for or expected, 2) you were a great family with a good history of open communication, timely payments and following my policies and 3) I had the open space to accommodate your child without going over licensing capacities.

I would NOT do it if: 1) you frequently tried to bend, ignore or disregard my regular policies, 2) had a history of late payment and/or 3) simply EXPECTED me to accommodate without necessarily asking me.

I honestly understand that providers have rules and such because of past experiences with being burned but IMHO, each family should have it's own reputation based on their own behaviors and just as I wouldn't want to be viewed as "just like ALL child care providers" based on a family's bad experience with another provider, I don't want to view a family that way based on my past bad experiences with families.

Seems like much too much fuss about something that could have been dealt with easily and quickly with a little open communication between provider and family.

Plus, I don't think this is really a situation that could potentially "burn" the provider if the parents are generally a good daycare family. Sounds like it could have been an ideal way to build good business relations.
Exactly BC. I would have switched the day with no problem and I have done exactly that in nearly the exact situation many times before. No big deal.
Reply
Cat Herder 11:21 AM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
No big deal.
Maybe.... but after 12-20 years of arguing that point, with each parent believing they are the exception to the rule, it wears on your soul

Personally, I just charge a flat rate, per slot, come as you please. 50 hours or 1 hour, makes no difference to me.

It stopped all the discussions of times, dates and prices.
Reply
lovemykidstoo 11:46 AM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Maybe.... but after 12-20 years of arguing that point, with each parent believing they are the exception to the rule, it wears on your soul

Personally, I just charge a flat rate, per slot, come as you please. 50 hours or 1 hour, makes no difference to me.

It stopped all the discussions of times, dates and prices.
I really don't think it's a big deal. Either you have room on the one day that they want to switch or ya don't. Pretty easy yes or no, shouldn't really need to haggle about it. It's not somethiing I would do every week for sure, but once in a blue moon no problem.

I'm interested in your concept though, what do you mean charge a flat rate, per slot come as you please concept? you have intrigued me
Reply
Cat Herder 12:08 PM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I'm interested in your concept though, what do you mean charge a flat rate, per slot come as you please concept? you have intrigued me
I needed to simplify because I was expending more energy on adult issues than childcare issues (years ago) so I went to a fixed rate program.

I am open 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, with my calendar given a year in advance. I have 6 slots, set rates and a 3 year wait list.

It was the best choice I ever made. I like to enjoy my job.
Reply
lovemykidstoo 12:25 PM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I needed to simplify because I was expending more energy on adult issues than childcare issues (years ago) so I went to a fixed rate program.

I am open 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, with my calendar given a year in advance. I have 6 slots, set rates and a 3 year wait list.

It was the best choice I ever made. I like to enjoy my job.
So you charge the same per day no matter how many hours they come correct? I'm assuming that everyone has the same schedule every week.
Reply
Meeko 05:26 PM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Maybe.... but after 12-20 years of arguing that point, with each parent believing they are the exception to the rule, it wears on your soul

Personally, I just charge a flat rate, per slot, come as you please. 50 hours or 1 hour, makes no difference to me.

It stopped all the discussions of times, dates and prices.
Same here!
Reply
Meeko 05:31 PM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
So you charge the same per day no matter how many hours they come correct? I'm assuming that everyone has the same schedule every week.
I charge a flat weekly rate. Parents can use any or all of the hours I'm open. They can use me from 6-6 M-F if they want. But they get no discount if they only use an hour an day on one week. They are paying for a SPOT in they day care.

Most people pay a set fee for their TV cable service. Try calling the company and saying "I didn't watch much TV this past month, so I want a discount on this months bill"

Same rate. Every week. No matter what. No counting hours/days etc. No haggling. No bargaining. No arguments. Set in stone.
Reply
HappyHearts 05:58 PM 10-12-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I charge a flat weekly rate. Parents can use any or all of the hours I'm open. They can use me from 6-6 M-F if they want. But they get no discount if they only use an hour an day on one week. They are paying for a SPOT in they day care.


Same rate. Every week. No matter what. No counting hours/days etc. No haggling. No bargaining. No arguments. Set in stone.
This is exactly what I do.
Reply
mom2many 09:46 PM 10-12-2012
I have accommodated changes as long it doesn't affect my ratios for that day. I try to be flexible and if I can do it, I will. Sometimes it isn't possible and the parents know they may be told no, if I don't have a space.
Reply
MrsSteinel'sHouse 04:18 AM 10-13-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
If I were the provider in this situation, I would;

Gladly switch days IF: 1) it weren't something you regularly did/asked for or expected, 2) you were a great family with a good history of open communication, timely payments and following my policies and 3) I had the open space to accommodate your child without going over licensing capacities.

I would NOT do it if: 1) you frequently tried to bend, ignore or disregard my regular policies, 2) had a history of late payment and/or 3) simply EXPECTED me to accommodate without necessarily asking me.

I honestly understand that providers have rules and such because of past experiences with being burned but IMHO, each family should have it's own reputation based on their own behaviors and just as I wouldn't want to be viewed as "just like ALL child care providers" based on a family's bad experience with another provider, I don't want to view a family that way based on my past bad experiences with families.

Seems like much too much fuss about something that could have been dealt with easily and quickly with a little open communication between provider and family.

Plus, I don't think this is really a situation that could potentially "burn" the provider if the parents are generally a good daycare family. Sounds like it could have been an ideal way to build good business relations.

The question wasn't weather *we* would accomadate this request. (I also would have switched for most of my parents) The question was weather her provider was being unreasonable and I really think that depends on her contract with her provider. We don't know the provider's motives. If this parent has a good relationship with her provider I would lean toward- she has been burned in the past, had plans, or it was a bad week for her. If the relationship is a poor one then the parent needs to decide how to build that relationship or decide this particular provider is not for her. But I certainly wouldn't decide that on one unpleasant event that is centered on the big hot topic for providers- time and money. But, if she feel her provider is awesome with her child and this one transaction is the only bump in the road and she wants to broach the subject, she needs to one, look at her contract and two, ask what it would have taken to pick up that extra day.
I just don't to tar and feather a provider with half of the story We always tell providers that they need to not be taken advantage of. So, lets give this nameless provider the benifit of the doubt and assume that her motives weren't unkind.
Reply
Blackcat31 08:21 AM 10-13-2012
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
The question wasn't weather *we* would accomadate this request. (I also would have switched for most of my parents) The question was weather her provider was being unreasonable and I really think that depends on her contract with her provider.
I disagree. There was no actual question other than "Do any providers on this forum know if there are policies that dictate why she made the decision she did?" and "Any thoughts? Any suggestions about how I may communicate about this with my provider." .

Nowhere did the OP ask if provider was being unreasonable.

Responding as to what "we" would do, was giving insight to the OP on why providers make the decisions they do.

Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
We don't know the provider's motives. If this parent has a good relationship with her provider I would lean toward- she has been burned in the past, had plans, or it was a bad week for her.
My reply addressed this. Just because I had or hadn't been burned in the past should not dictate how I treat this particular family. I treat each family based on their individual relationship and past with me. Regardless of my past experiences with other families.

If the provider had plans, there would be no reason for her to not offer that up as an explanation. Sure beats alienating the family by being silent, which seems to be the case.

Also if it was a bad week and her actions were dictated by that, why is it ok for a bad week to effect the provider and her actions but we (in general) complain and vent about parents using their bad week as an excuse for their behavior/actions to us?

Those would not be acceptable excuses for me personally as a provider. I have set rules and polcies, but go out of my way to make sure a parent fully understands why and is comfortable and ok with my decisions.

Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
If the relationship is a poor one then the parent needs to decide how to build that relationship or decide this particular provider is not for her.
Which is EXACTLY what the OP asked about. How do they convey to their provider that they want to know the reasoning behind the providers decision? I think for us, as providers to answer gives insight to the OP as to how to approach their provider and to see a little where the provder might be coming from.

Having unhappy clients is not good business practice. You can have the best policies in the world, and even stand 100% firm in them all the time, every time, but I bet you wouldn't be a very busy child care then.

Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse:
I just don't to tar and feather a provider with half of the story We always tell providers that they need to not be taken advantage of. So, lets give this nameless provider the benifit of the doubt and assume that her motives weren't unkind.
Guess I am not understanding where I "tarred and feathered" anyone by my response.

I don't tell providers to not get taken advantage of, I tell providers to stand their ground on policies they truly believe in and to stand firm in decisions they have made. If an explaination is required, then one should surely be given as open, honest communication is something I do preach to everyone and something I feel is the foundation of my business.

If this provider did not give reason and refuses to explain to the parent why their request cannot be accommodated, then I will assume that she was being unkind, because she is/was.

Being a child care provider doesn't require "dictator" type behavior. It requires a bit of finesse' and open, clear dialect between client and owner so that EVERYONE is happy and ok with the policies and decisions in the contract.
Reply
julie 11:48 AM 10-13-2012
I was flexible with one family in this respect once. I told them this was the only time I would allow switching days. Guess what? Every month afterward they have tried to switch days. This is a great family in all other respects, but I really regret giving special once, because they will always try and it irks me! I am happy to add the extra day for families if I have space and my activities allow them to be here, but the expectation is that it is an extra day that they are paying for.

If you are not normally scheduled for the 5th day, and she says no don't always think that ratios are the only factor. For instance, I like my older kids on Fridays and I like a smaller group. I limit the amount of kids that are young because we go on outings/field trips and there are only so many stroller spots available and certain kids don't have the disposition/attention span to go on those sorts of things! I also budget my menus, so she HAS lost money for you as I wouldn't serve Tuesdays meal again on a Friday so that food I budgeted has gone to waste, and then you would like me to stretch portions for Friday's meal so there is enough to include your child when he wasn't originally scheduled to come. Just something to think about, budget wise.

I can see how the "good will" goes both ways and how easily it is tarnished. Just try to see where your provider is coming from. It is not just one family, it is many they are dealing with. If I had relatively good families but they all asked for special in one way or another, I am sure that I would burn out very quickly. When I think of my good family that ALWAYS asks even though they knew me switching the day was a one-time thing, it tarnishes how I feel about them and it stresses me out to have to go over my policy again and again. Future families won't get the grace of the one-time switch because it's become such a pain in the butt, know what I mean?
Reply
cheerfuldom 02:46 PM 10-13-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Thanks everyone who replied to the thread. It was important to hear that sometimes providers are inflexible because of experiences they've had with parents who took advantage. That makes sense. She has been doing this a long time and I'm sure that she has had many negative experiences. I guess what I take issue with is some of the things raised by "lovemykidstoo". First, I was not suggesting that I should pay less that week. Second, her inflexibility has tarnished a bit our sense of good will. I do feel like working on a human level works both ways. We agreed to pay for her 2 weeks of vacation. I know people who would prefer to look for someone else before paying this. She had an open slot and could have accommodated my child. In fact, she is under ratio even on the days when all children attend. The crux of the issue is that there is nothing in our contract that dictates make up days either way. Therefore, I thought that she would do it out of courtesy because my child being there would not have changed anything for her. In fact, if she budgeted (in terms of lunch, and snacks, for example) that my child would be there four days and he was only there once, there was a surplus in her budget (if we were to look at this in purely transactional terms).
final word from me is that the provider does not HAVE to take another child just because she has an open slot that day. If you need someone to have flexibility, find another provider. If this situation is not outlined in the contract, then it is up to her discretion on which way to go. She hasnt gone the way you prefer but that doesnt mean she did something wrong...now it is up to you to decide if this is something you can live with or something that you would rather keep looking for another provider. It is important to realize that no provider will be 100% what you want in every respect. It might be time to re evaluate with the big picture in mind....do you really want to remove your child from an experienced provider and transition him/her to a new place over a few days situation? if you are happy with the care in every other respect, is this a big enough deal to uproot and try a new place (which you may hate in many areas and not just one)?
Reply
boysx5 03:34 PM 10-13-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I charge a flat weekly rate. Parents can use any or all of the hours I'm open. They can use me from 6-6 M-F if they want. But they get no discount if they only use an hour an day on one week. They are paying for a SPOT in they day care.

Most people pay a set fee for their TV cable service. Try calling the company and saying "I didn't watch much TV this past month, so I want a discount on this months bill"

Same rate. Every week. No matter what. No counting hours/days etc. No haggling. No bargaining. No arguments. Set in stone.

I do the same makes life so easy
Reply
BABYLUVER 03:42 PM 10-14-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'm curious to know if others have experienced this and how you have resolved it if at all. Our child attends family daycare four times a week. With the holiday this week, it was three days but then he was sick two days and could not attend. We paid our regular weekly tuition even though he attended one day out of four. This is fine. But then I asked the provider if i could bring him the day he usually is not in care, to partly make up for the days I missed work because I had to keep him at home. She said no because it wasn't his regular day. Accepting him for the make up day would not have made her go over her limits and I'm feeling disappointed that she could not be more flexible...especially since I really need that day to catch up on my work. Do any providers on this forum know if there are policies that dictate why she made the decision she did. My feeling is - especially since we have a good relationship - that she should have dealt with us on a more human level rather than a business / policy level. And of course, it stings to have to pay close to $300 for one day of care. Any thoughts? Any suggestions about how I may communicate about this with my provider.
I didn't allow make-up days either. The reason is because my schedule revolved around how many kids were in care on what days and I didn't want anyone to think they could do it each week. I took things on a case-by-case basis, though, and if someone was desperate and I knew it really hurt her to miss that one day, I would make an exception. I did have one woman who was 2d per week and wanted to add days so I just charged the extra days. I didn't really worry too much about going over because most of my kids were booked for full time except her anyway, so it made no difference for her to use 2 more days.
Reply
littlemissmuffet 08:54 PM 10-18-2012
Nevermind making up days, I usually don't even allow a parent to tell me a child won't be here on a SCHEDULED day and then change their mind and bring the child. It has nothing to do with ratio, it has everything to do with what my pans for the day are.

How do you know for certain that your DCP would have space? How do you know one of her own child's friends wasn't coming over for a play date? How do you know that a casual drop-in wasn't coming that day?

How do you know your DCP was even going to have any kids that day? Maybe nobody was scheduled to come that day and she planned to enjoy a day off!

How do you know your DCP wasn't planning on being closed that day for an appointment or some other reason? I only inform parents that are scheduled for a particular day that I am closing... not parents that I'm not expecting for the day.

Maybe the day you asked for your child to come is your DCP's "easy" day and she wanted to keep it that way (I for one don't blame her). Maybe your child is often difficult for your DCP and she wanted the break?

Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter - she said no, and you should respect that, no whine about it.

Your child fell ill, that's not your DCP's problem - it's part of being a parent. The holiday, also not your DCP's problem... full-timers can't make up holidays, why should part-timers be allowed to?

Finally, you make it sound like you DESERVE this favor because you pay for sick days and holiday days and DCP's vacation days (which is the norm where I live)... but you agreed to that in your interview/contract - so you're not getting any awards from me!
Reply
littlemissmuffet 08:55 PM 10-18-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
My son goes to daycare 2 full days per week. He has had many sick days and no, we are not allowed to make up the day. We also pay for 3 weeks vacation and when the provider take days off for state required classes. She also closes on school closing, due to snow. We still pay, even if the weather clears up. We live in Massachusetts and have one of the highest childcare rates in the country. I don't mind paying though. We picked quality over anything else. We did view one daycare down the road who didn't take sick days and rarely closed. She also kept the tv on during the whole interview and left cigarettes out on her back deck. I am really easy going, but I figured if that was going on when I was there.... Who knows what went on when I wasn't. All in all, we probably pay for 6 weeks of unused childcare. It's all part of having a child...


Good for you. Thank you for treating your daycare provider with respect and appreciation!!
Reply
grandmom 02:54 PM 10-19-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Nevermind making up days, I usually don't even allow a parent to tell me a child won't be here on a SCHEDULED day and then change their mind and bring the child. It has nothing to do with ratio, it has everything to do with what my pans for the day are.

How do you know for certain that your DCP would have space? How do you know one of her own child's friends wasn't coming over for a play date? How do you know that a casual drop-in wasn't coming that day?

How do you know your DCP was even going to have any kids that day? Maybe nobody was scheduled to come that day and she planned to enjoy a day off!

How do you know your DCP wasn't planning on being closed that day for an appointment or some other reason? I only inform parents that are scheduled for a particular day that I am closing... not parents that I'm not expecting for the day.

Maybe the day you asked for your child to come is your DCP's "easy" day and she wanted to keep it that way (I for one don't blame her). Maybe your child is often difficult for your DCP and she wanted the break?

Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter - she said no, and you should respect that, no whine about it.

Your child fell ill, that's not your DCP's problem - it's part of being a parent. The holiday, also not your DCP's problem... full-timers can't make up holidays, why should part-timers be allowed to?

Finally, you make it sound like you DESERVE this favor because you pay for sick days and holiday days and DCP's vacation days (which is the norm where I live)... but you agreed to that in your interview/contract - so you're not getting any awards from me!
Exactly. I make plans on low number days. If a parent wants to switch it messes up my plans. I don't really feel a need to explain the reason I don't want to switch.

In fact, I won't take a 4-day a week payment. I will never try to fill that day so it's money I loose. Full time price for this. Then the parent can change whenever they want.
Reply
clep 12:02 PM 10-24-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
If I were the provider in this situation, I would;

Gladly switch days IF: 1) it weren't something you regularly did/asked for or expected, 2) you were a great family with a good history of open communication, timely payments and following my policies and 3) I had the open space to accommodate your child without going over licensing capacities.

I would NOT do it if: 1) you frequently tried to bend, ignore or disregard my regular policies, 2) had a history of late payment and/or 3) simply EXPECTED me to accommodate without necessarily asking me.

I honestly understand that providers have rules and such because of past experiences with being burned but IMHO, each family should have it's own reputation based on their own behaviors and just as I wouldn't want to be viewed as "just like ALL child care providers" based on a family's bad experience with another provider, I don't want to view a family that way based on my past bad experiences with families.

Seems like much too much fuss about something that could have been dealt with easily and quickly with a little open communication between provider and family.

Plus, I don't think this is really a situation that could potentially "burn" the provider if the parents are generally a good daycare family. Sounds like it could have been an ideal way to build good business relations.
These are my feelings exactly.
Reply
WDW 12:25 PM 10-24-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I charge a flat weekly rate. Parents can use any or all of the hours I'm open. They can use me from 6-6 M-F if they want. But they get no discount if they only use an hour an day on one week. They are paying for a SPOT in they day care.

Most people pay a set fee for their TV cable service. Try calling the company and saying "I didn't watch much TV this past month, so I want a discount on this months bill"

Same rate. Every week. No matter what. No counting hours/days etc. No haggling. No bargaining. No arguments. Set in stone.
Interesting... does this work well or do you have 6 kids 12 hours a day all week? Based on my experience, most of my familes would have their kids here ALL the time if I did that...
Reply
Meyou 01:32 AM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by WDW:
Interesting... does this work well or do you have 6 kids 12 hours a day all week? Based on my experience, most of my familes would have their kids here ALL the time if I did that...
I do a set fee as well but my parents are limited to 10 hours of care per day based on starting time.
Reply
mysonsmom1 06:34 AM 10-25-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Accepting him for the make up day would not have made her go over her limits and I'm feeling disappointed that she could not be more flexible...especially since I really need that day to catch up on my work.
You made a point doing the statement that she said that by accepting him, she would go over her limits. A lot of parents donít recognize the regulated in home childcare services are governed by rules and regulations that can not allow them to go over their ratios. Have you thought that maybe she just did not have the space for him that day? You may be disappointed that youíre not able to catch up on work because youíre child was sick. Yet, its great to know that she is following the rules. By doing this, it makes your child safer and avoids her from receiving a write up from the state inspectors. Every write up we receive is public information.
Reply
daycaremum 11:09 AM 10-26-2012
This exactly
Reply
daycaremum 11:11 AM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Nevermind making up days, I usually don't even allow a parent to tell me a child won't be here on a SCHEDULED day and then change their mind and bring the child. It has nothing to do with ratio, it has everything to do with what my pans for the day are.

How do you know for certain that your DCP would have space? How do you know one of her own child's friends wasn't coming over for a play date? How do you know that a casual drop-in wasn't coming that day?

How do you know your DCP was even going to have any kids that day? Maybe nobody was scheduled to come that day and she planned to enjoy a day off!

How do you know your DCP wasn't planning on being closed that day for an appointment or some other reason? I only inform parents that are scheduled for a particular day that I am closing... not parents that I'm not expecting for the day.

Maybe the day you asked for your child to come is your DCP's "easy" day and she wanted to keep it that way (I for one don't blame her). Maybe your child is often difficult for your DCP and she wanted the break?

Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter - she said no, and you should respect that, no whine about it.

Your child fell ill, that's not your DCP's problem - it's part of being a parent. The holiday, also not your DCP's problem... full-timers can't make up holidays, why should part-timers be allowed to?

Finally, you make it sound like you DESERVE this favor because you pay for sick days and holiday days and DCP's vacation days (which is the norm where I live)... but you agreed to that in your interview/contract - so you're not getting any awards from me!


This exactly. Your provider does not have to explain to you why she said no. You just need to deal with it. You asked for something that is not part of your original agreement, it is up to your provider whether she wants to do it or not. I myself allow switching days as long as it works for me
Reply
MarinaVanessa 12:39 PM 10-26-2012
Originally Posted by mysonsmom1:
You made a point doing the statement that she said that by accepting him, she would go over her limits.
I believe that what she said was that by accepting him she would not be going over her limit.
Reply
saved4always 07:23 PM 10-27-2012
When I did in-home childcare, I would let a parent come on a different day like that as long as it would not put me over the legal ratio and as long as I had other children attending on that day. If it was a day that I had no other children, I would most likely not have given up my day of being child-free. I am a bit selfish that way.
Reply
JennyBear 05:31 AM 10-30-2012
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
This should be something that you discussed at interview. I do not switch days for a family with regularly scheduled days. I have two PT families that pay for FT spots and two PT families that pay for 3 days, and add days as needed, IF they are available. I have three drop in kids who know my available days. If another kid is out sick, I have no way to replace them on short notice.

It isn't her fault that your son was sick. She was ready, willing and available to provide care that day. She should be paid. If she was to add an additional day, she should be paid for it.

You are paying for a spot. It is like a reservation on your provider's time & resources. If you don't use your reservation, you don't get to add a free day.

Also, even if the provider WANTS to give you a 'break' she has most likely been taken advantage of in the past and refuses to allow it to happen again. Even for families that I absolutely adore, I find it very important to NEVER blur lines or do favors and stick to the contract. It keeps our relationship professional and the expectations of each other set. I have done favors in the past. I gave a current daycare family three free days when their son was out sick and they were going through financial difficulties. Now EVERY TIME that dcb is out sick, they EXPECT it to be free.
Absolutely agree with this!
Reply
gobarno 02:04 PM 10-30-2012
The question is, when you missed work, would you be offended if your employer asked if they really had to pay you for all of the days? The provider still has bills to pay. And unfortunately when you get too close (friendship) with your provider, someone gets taken advantage of. I have clients who I have developed a friendship with but M-F 7-5, it is a business. If you became friends with your hairdresser, would you ask for a free color?
Reply
biglou 06:17 PM 10-31-2012
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
This should be something that you discussed at interview. I do not switch days for a family with regularly scheduled days. I have two PT families that pay for FT spots and two PT families that pay for 3 days, and add days as needed, IF they are available. I have three drop in kids who know my available days. If another kid is out sick, I have no way to replace them on short notice.

It isn't her fault that your son was sick. She was ready, willing and available to provide care that day. She should be paid. If she was to add an additional day, she should be paid for it.

You are paying for a spot. It is like a reservation on your provider's time & resources. If you don't use your reservation, you don't get to add a free day.

Also, even if the provider WANTS to give you a 'break' she has most likely been taken advantage of in the past and refuses to allow it to happen again. Even for families that I absolutely adore, I find it very important to NEVER blur lines or do favors and stick to the contract. It keeps our relationship professional and the expectations of each other set. I have done favors in the past. I gave a current daycare family three free days when their son was out sick and they were going through financial difficulties. Now EVERY TIME that dcb is out sick, they EXPECT it to be free.
agree with daycare diva on this issue. this is a constant problem for providers caring for kids on part time basis. Part timers are scheduled into the calendar so the provider can maximize open seats on a daily basis.
To avoid the issue, providers must clearly explain the policy on switching days, holidays, and sick days to avoid the parent from trying to switch on this occasions. Have all you part time parents sign a doc acknowledging they understand you rules on this matter when they sign their contract. So you can kill the matter when they bring it up in the future. Or else, get out of the part time business and work like hell to fill the seats with full time only and flat rate charge. Then there is no issue! They come when you are open as they already have their seat waiting for them.

big Lou
Reply
Countrygal 01:17 PM 11-06-2012
I'm coming in late on this, but...

I am in the camp that I would allow the dcp to switch days with a whole bunch of buts and ifs...

There is so much info that is unknown here. Do they do this often? Want to switch days, that is? Did they give notice, at least by drop off time? Did they keep dcprovider well informed of the situation?

If all of the above was done, then I would probably allow them to switch, but like some of the people said, I would be sure to let them know that it is NOT my policy and is a one-time deal only. And I think I'd add that because they were so good at keeping me informed and notifying me, I was willing to work with them.
Reply
Tags:part time rate, rate - fair and reasonable, rate - structure, rates - flat fee
Reply Up