Background: 4 yo boy, has always struggled with wanting to be in control but we nipped it in the bud pretty quick when he started. I have visibly witnessed him hit & kick his parents, tell them he hates them, throw tantrums, refuses to put shoes on, etc. On numerous occasions his mother drops his off completely frazzled because he's been defiant and unruly all morning when getting ready to leave for daycare. I remedied our issue with leaving by having him ready before parents got here and it solved the problem for a little while. 90% of the time our days are fine with minimal issues.

However, the last few weeks, 2-3 times a week, an incident where he has refused to put shoes on for me, or to put on his coat. When he refuses to do what I ask, he has to sit by the door and wait for his parents rather than being able to play a little until his parent gets here. When his parents do get here (when he's sitting out), he slumps around and refuses to do anything for himself. His parents end up doing it all for him and carrying him out while he's throwing a fit telling them he hates them and usually hitting/kicking.

This afternoon I had him get his shoes on and immediately knew it was going to go downhill quick. He told me he was "bored of it" when he was instructed to put his shoes on. He did so, but then stood in my hall with his arms crossed and pouting. I didn't instruct him to put on his coat yet because I wasn't entirely sure exactly when he was being picked up and didn't want him to get too hot. Within 5 minutes his grandparents were here so I grabbed his coat and attempted to help him get it on (just held it out for him to slip on), at which time he swiped at me. I sternly told him that I do not tolerate that type of behavior and he knew that, and then at that point he stomped backwards on my toes with his shoe!

Then he slumped to the ground and started crying while his grandfather carried him out, screaming how much he hated him and was "bored of this". Not cool.

Now take it away - how would YOU handle this situation?

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I would terminate. Plain and simple.

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any kid ever hits me they are gone that day..............

in this case I would implement the Nannyde bye bye outside program. Have the person picking up text you when they are on their way there and then get the kids stuff together, don't even bother to put it on. Just get everything ready and when the parent knocks, hand them the kid and his stuff, shut the door.

All done.

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I would term if possible.

If that is not possible, I would send him right out the door as soon as someone pulls up to get him. Pick him up and sit him outside the door if necessary. Don't worry about the shoes and coat. Just hand them to whoever picks him up.

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Put ALL his belongings outside the front porch area in nice container or bag, right before pickup time, so to get away from his drama, maybe after a few months go by, try again inside by the front door. *repeat if necessary* If I can't give a quiet time at occurrence, I talk with the child the next day and they loose something fun *like play dough time* and I gently remind the child "why" without others hearing us talk. Guiding gently....with action and gentle conversations each time it occurs.

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I think you have done all you can. A child of that age who thinks it's okay to physically assault an adult when they are angry is not a child that could be in my care. This is a child who is old enough to know and do better. His parents allow it, and expect you to allow it as well.

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Thank you guys for all of your responses. I completely understand why majority are saying they would terminate right away. I would feel the same way if it weren't for the fact that this family really is great in every other aspect, and I also care for the sibling (who is 9 months) - I think they are just in over their heads (let him get away with things too long).

I had a serious open discussion with the mom last night about it and she is well aware of where I stand, and asked if she needed to start looking for another daycare provider. At this time I told her I was willing to work together to attempt to fix this behavior, but she's aware if it continues she will need to look for care elsewhere.

He's going to have quite a discussion with me this morning, we're going to have limited privileges for the day, and for now we are doing the drop at the door suggestion so many of you offered. I hope this works because I would hate to lose this family, but I have 4 of my own kids - 3 being boys, and none of them have ever swung at me. I can't even imagine raising my kids to think that type of behavior is ok.

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I would term as well. Only kid I termed was an insta term. He slapped me.

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I think you need to give this little guy a big ol helping of tough love.

He needs to know YOU are the boss and that YOU don't care if he is "bored of this" or doesn't like it there. Those are all words. Words he is using to gain either attention and/or sympathy. He KNOWs full well what he is suppose to do and he is purposely not doing t because by not doing it, he is starting the first steps to the "big show" which is being carried out, flailing and screaming....Whew! What fun!!!

Well..you have to make it NOT fun for him. If he leaves badly, he needs to come the next day with that hanging over his head.... "Good morning Jimmy! Nice to see you! The other kids are playing in the block center during free play but you are going to be my shadow for the morning because of your poor behavior when you left yesterday. Maybe tonight you will behave like the big boy you are and earn some of your privileges back."

Then he would be my shadow for the whole morning. NOT doing anything fun. Depending on his behavior as my shadow, he may or may not be allowed to go play during the afternoon. If he is allowed to play in the afternoon, he needs to be IMMEDIATLEY removed from the group (and not allowed back) if he has even one.single. incident of physical aggression towards another child or you.

I would also take the opportunity to discuss with him (repeatedly like a broken record) about the behavior expectations during pick up. Let him know exactly what you want him to do and not do. If he complies, he earns himself something special (a favorite activity, being the line leader...etc....whatever floats his boat). Once he starts to have positive pick up episodes, begin allowing him to have more privileges.

He IS old enough to receive a consequence for negative behavior the next day...even if the negative behavior happened the night before. If he can't act like a 4 yr old boy who KNOWS how to follow directions and comply willingly, then he cannot be allowed to participate in activities etc the other older kids are doing.

When he behaves as expected, he can participate like everyone else.

He says he is "bored of it". Give his words back to him and make sure he IS bored during the day IF he is naughty/aggressive at pick up the night before. He used those words so now it is up to you to show him what those words mean.

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Thank you for the great suggestions! I really appreciate the time it took you to respond with constructive advice. I will term this family if the behavior continues, but I do not feel that it is the right time at the moment.

I welcomed him in this morning and when he went to go play with his friends, he got redirected and is now hanging out with me while all his friends play and get to do fun activities. We've talked a few times about his behavior last night, and will continue to do so throughout the day. He's already attempted to tell me he hates his parents and are bored of them, and that is why he refuses to follow directions when it's time to leave.

Would you recommend dropping his things outside the door and sending him out as soon as his parents get here, or giving him the opportunity to correct his behavior?

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I have one like this and I haven't chosen to term. I have had the family since a couple months after I opened.

I found that what was irritating me wasn't that the child wouldn't get dressed, it was that I was having to focus on her instead whatever else I could have used the time to accomplish and that I was actually giving in to making this a power struggle with a child.

I now give the child a huge amount of time to get ready and then put it on her. She is 3 1/2. I need her to get dressed and ready for school drop off at 8:15AM so at 7AM, I put her in the kitchen where I can see her and ask her to get ready. I then go on with my morning breakfast routine with the other kids and pay no attention to her. If she finishes in time she eats with the other kids and has a few minutes to play, if not the only person losing out is her. She will have to eat alone after we come back from drop off. All but 1 time she has decided to get ready in time to go. The one time she didn't, I called her mother to pick her up.

At pickup, same thing. 1 hour before pickup, I ask her to get her stuff on. If she does it, she gets to play. If she doesn't the loss is hers. She almost always decides to get ready because who wants to sit around and watch the others for an hour. When DCM shows up, I hand the child right out the door like everyone on this site has suggested and let the struggle that will follow happen outside my house. The one in 20 time she doesn't choose to get ready, I put her things on 5 minutes to pickup and hand her out the door.

As time has gone on, the amount of time I need to allow has gotten shorter and the entire issue no longer stresses me at all.

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I would tell him he needs to have appropriate pickup behavior outside your door first for a few days and then when he has had three good pickups in a row outside , he can try inside pickup again.

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I would be like a parrot on his shoulder ALL day discussing, reminding him about what type of behavior you expect during pick up. Walk him through it step by step if necessary

You "Ok, Jimmy, when I say it is time to get ready to go, you are going to do what?" (this is where he needs to recall the continuous discussion you had with him about his expected behavior at pick up....)

Jimmy "Go get my shoes and out them on"

You "Yes!! After you get your shoes on, what is next?"

Jimmy "I will get my coat and put that on"

You "Yes, you will put your coat on. Then you will do what when mom arrives?"

Jimmy "I will walk on my own like a big boy to the car without throwing a fit."

You "Yes, you will walk to the car like a big boy and not throw a fit"

Continue repeating the steps he needs to take ALL day until pick up. At pick up, give him an opportunity to do those things. Give a verbal reminder if you see him begin to start veering from the plan if necessary.

It may take a day or two but he WILL get it. But he will ONLY get it if he is shown that negative behaviors = boring day at daycare and compliant behavior = having a great day and lots of fun!

Whether he is bored or not is up to him.

Show him how that give and take works.

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You are on the right track. This is a child who thinks that he is the center of the universe. He needs to learn that the world does not revolve around him, especially with the new baby. Parents need to be on board with this. They can teach him now, or really have their hands full when he's 12 and on.

I would also address the words he is using. He has no right to say that he hates anyone, especially his parents. If he can't speak appropriately, using kind words, he needs to keep his mouth shut. He does not have the right to control my air space with his negative, hateful words. The other issue is that other children are hearing his verbal barrage and that is not something I would allow. Tough love for a couple of weeks, with the parents reinforcing the same rules, and you will see a different child.

The parents need to have consequences for bad pick up behavior. Removal of screen time privileges, or play time, but some kind of consequence for poor behavior. They also need to reinforce the good behavior with small rewards along the way to acknowledge and reinforce the changes. Good luck. It's hard, but you can make a difference in this child's life.

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I've been doing this, so that's good!

Thank you for sharing your personal experience!

Thanks so much for your input. DCM and I are on the same page, but it's obvious that she's struggling with DCD and grandparents regarding backing her up. I hope that she is able to get them all on the same page so we can work together to correct these behaviors. They've gotten progressively worse over the last few months and unfortunately are bleeding into daycare now.

His famous phrases are, "I'm bored of this!" and saying he hates things. I put a stop to both of them the instant I hear the words cross his lips, however he seems to say them more often when family is here to drop him off/pick him up. The few times he's said it today while being glued to my side I've talked with him at length about how saying those things are not okay and are part of the reason he is not able to have fun with the rest of the kids today.

I have talked with DCM at length with the issues and she seems to be doing what is necessary but claims she's having a hard time keeping it consistent since DCD and grandparents aren't backing her up. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point, but hope that everyone gets on the same page because this boy will be starting Pre-K in the fall and I foresee lots of issues if these behaviors don't get sorted out...

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I wish I could do the Bye Bye outside- I live close to a busy road. I don't feel comfortable with that.

you got some great ideas and will apply the shadow method to one of my littles that thinks its fun to run at pick up time- stalls and is capable but just doesn't want to comply at pick up. Fun fun fun........never ending fun~

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I agree with BC as long as the parents are on board. I did this with a kid, making him accountable for his actions the next day and making him my shadow. the parents were not on board with me and next thing I hear is that the DCK hates coming here becuase they don't like being in trouble all the time.

These parents were not being helpful in anyway and it ended with the family leaving.

I would have a sit down with the parents, make sure that they are on board with you and then do what BC said.....

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If a child hit me and understood that was not ok before doing so, I would put on probation or term.

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