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Old 07-24-2014, 12:29 PM
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spud912 spud912 is offline
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Default Blackcat 30 Day Mark on Calendar Question

Blackcat: I remember you saying that when a child gets to a certain point of frustration, you put an "x" on your calendar 30 days out. If you see no improvement, then you term.

I was wondering, do you tell the parents you are putting them on probation of some sort? When you do terminate, do you give a notice period?

I normally give a 2 week notice unless there is a severe problem (lack of payment, extreme disrespect, etc.).

I've had a dcb (2 years, 3 months old) for nearly 2 months now and I don't feel like things are improving as much as I would like. He is aggressive and doesn't follow directions well. Basically, he pushes, hits (closed-fist), and has bitten on 2 occasions. He has done this when a child is next to him, at the top of the slide to get a child to "hurry up" (I'm assuming), and/or when a child takes a toy from him (which is partially the other child's fault). When I tell him to do something, he rarely follows directions (like sit down, come here, be quiet, stay on your cot, etc.). He often will shake his head "no" at me when I tell him to do something.

He always hits/kicks me and/or his parents during pick up because he refuses to put his shoes on and leave. It's gotten so routine and bad that we do the bye bye outside (which for the most part has stopped the aggression towards us).

He can be endearing in that he loves to give all adults hugs. His parents have been more than willing to help curb the misbehavior and for the most part have been good about following the policies. I have seen an improvement in some of his behaviors; such as: he no longer screams "no" at me, he will come with me to the bathroom without collapsing on the ground, he no longer throws food at the table, etc.

To be honest, I know I always have a period of time when a child first starts where they have to grow on me and I eventually learn to love them. I'm sure if I were to stick with it, he would be a different child when he was 5 years old and I would care about him eventually. At this point, though, I just really don't like him. I don't treat him differently (except for the fact that he always is my shadow due to the aggression), but I wish I had a more calm atmosphere. He is loud, wild and chaotic.

I want to see how he handles the move and go from there. I'm most concerned with my ability to properly supervise him when I have a newborn.

I feel like everyone else thinks I'm over-exaggerating and that his behavior is very typical for his age. While it is typical for non-verbal 1-2 year olds to be aggressive, I would rather not have them in my care, kwim? I have enough stress as it is right now without having to monitor one child more than all the others.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:59 PM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by spud912 View Post
Blackcat: I remember you saying that when a child gets to a certain point of frustration, you put an "x" on your calendar 30 days out. If you see no improvement, then you term.

I was wondering, do you tell the parents you are putting them on probation of some sort? When you do terminate, do you give a notice period?

I normally give a 2 week notice unless there is a severe problem (lack of payment, extreme disrespect, etc.).

I've had a dcb (2 years, 3 months old) for nearly 2 months now and I don't feel like things are improving as much as I would like. He is aggressive and doesn't follow directions well. Basically, he pushes, hits (closed-fist), and has bitten on 2 occasions. He has done this when a child is next to him, at the top of the slide to get a child to "hurry up" (I'm assuming), and/or when a child takes a toy from him (which is partially the other child's fault). When I tell him to do something, he rarely follows directions (like sit down, come here, be quiet, stay on your cot, etc.). He often will shake his head "no" at me when I tell him to do something.

He always hits/kicks me and/or his parents during pick up because he refuses to put his shoes on and leave. It's gotten so routine and bad that we do the bye bye outside (which for the most part has stopped the aggression towards us).

He can be endearing in that he loves to give all adults hugs. His parents have been more than willing to help curb the misbehavior and for the most part have been good about following the policies. I have seen an improvement in some of his behaviors; such as: he no longer screams "no" at me, he will come with me to the bathroom without collapsing on the ground, he no longer throws food at the table, etc.

To be honest, I know I always have a period of time when a child first starts where they have to grow on me and I eventually learn to love them. I'm sure if I were to stick with it, he would be a different child when he was 5 years old and I would care about him eventually. At this point, though, I just really don't like him. I don't treat him differently (except for the fact that he always is my shadow due to the aggression), but I wish I had a more calm atmosphere. He is loud, wild and chaotic.

I want to see how he handles the move and go from there. I'm most concerned with my ability to properly supervise him when I have a newborn.

I feel like everyone else thinks I'm over-exaggerating and that his behavior is very typical for his age. While it is typical for non-verbal 1-2 year olds to be aggressive, I would rather not have them in my care, kwim? I have enough stress as it is right now without having to monitor one child more than all the others.
No, I rarely tell the parents.

I do communicate continuously about whatever issue is going on in hopes that the parent will be a partner and try to solve the issue.

However, when I put the star on the calendar it's mostly a "light at the end of the tunnel" for ME.

So basically, I am already working with the family on an on-going basis and when it gets to the point of needing a star on the calendar....then I KNOW it's my saving grace. It's my version of giving myself permission to say "enough".

By that time, I have exhausted all efforts and need to know it's okay to be done.

I have NEVER put a family probation before as I don't really see the point I guess.

HTH
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:20 PM
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Heidi Heidi is offline
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Originally Posted by spud912 View Post
Blackcat: I remember you saying that when a child gets to a certain point of frustration, you put an "x" on your calendar 30 days out. If you see no improvement, then you term.

I was wondering, do you tell the parents you are putting them on probation of some sort? When you do terminate, do you give a notice period?

I normally give a 2 week notice unless there is a severe problem (lack of payment, extreme disrespect, etc.).

I've had a dcb (2 years, 3 months old) for nearly 2 months now and I don't feel like things are improving as much as I would like. He is aggressive and doesn't follow directions well. Basically, he pushes, hits (closed-fist), and has bitten on 2 occasions. He has done this when a child is next to him, at the top of the slide to get a child to "hurry up" (I'm assuming), and/or when a child takes a toy from him (which is partially the other child's fault). When I tell him to do something, he rarely follows directions (like sit down, come here, be quiet, stay on your cot, etc.). He often will shake his head "no" at me when I tell him to do something.

He always hits/kicks me and/or his parents during pick up because he refuses to put his shoes on and leave. It's gotten so routine and bad that we do the bye bye outside (which for the most part has stopped the aggression towards us).

He can be endearing in that he loves to give all adults hugs. His parents have been more than willing to help curb the misbehavior and for the most part have been good about following the policies. I have seen an improvement in some of his behaviors; such as: he no longer screams "no" at me, he will come with me to the bathroom without collapsing on the ground, he no longer throws food at the table, etc.

To be honest, I know I always have a period of time when a child first starts where they have to grow on me and I eventually learn to love them. I'm sure if I were to stick with it, he would be a different child when he was 5 years old and I would care about him eventually. At this point, though, I just really don't like him. I don't treat him differently (except for the fact that he always is my shadow due to the aggression), but I wish I had a more calm atmosphere. He is loud, wild and chaotic.

I want to see how he handles the move and go from there. I'm most concerned with my ability to properly supervise him when I have a newborn.

I feel like everyone else thinks I'm over-exaggerating and that his behavior is very typical for his age. While it is typical for non-verbal 1-2 year olds to be aggressive, I would rather not have them in my care, kwim? I have enough stress as it is right now without having to monitor one child more than all the others.
There's your #1 reason.

Honestly, if you're thinking of terming, do it before you move and before the baby. It's not fair to the little guy if he has to move with you, and then move again to another daycare.

Something like:

"DCM, as you know, we've been working on dcb's behavior together, and I really appreciate that. However, with the baby coming, it's become clear to me that 'm most concerned with my ability to properly supervise him when I have a newborn. So, I think it's best that when we move, it might be a good time for dcb to go to a place where there are more (children his own age, more staff members, more older children to model positive behaviors..whichever fits). I know it's the best decision for all of us, and I don't want him to have to go through too many changes at once".

???

Sorry...you didn't ask me, you asked a different question, but that sprang to mind when I saw "baby, move, aggressive child"....lol
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:38 PM
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I see the other thread about aggression and wonder if I should just stick it through because it is age-appropriate. My dh really thinks that his behavior is workable. My mom thinks it's also totally normal and to just deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
No, I rarely tell the parents.

I do communicate continuously about whatever issue is going on in hopes that the parent will be a partner and try to solve the issue.

However, when I put the star on the calendar it's mostly a "light at the end of the tunnel" for ME.

So basically, I am already working with the family on an on-going basis and when it gets to the point of needing a star on the calendar....then I KNOW it's my saving grace. It's my version of giving myself permission to say "enough".

By that time, I have exhausted all efforts and need to know it's okay to be done.

I have NEVER put a family probation before as I don't really see the point I guess.

HTH
Ok, so once you reach that point and let's say nothing has improved, you give a 2 week notice? How much improvement do you look for? I know I'm being totally unreasonable here but I really want to see a vast improvement.....I can't have a loud, wild and aggressive child who doesn't follow directions with a newborn. Plus, he naps terribly here. Everyone (including my own children) naps 2 1/2 to 3 hours and he naps 1 1/2 hours. The other hour is at the beginning of the nap period where he is obviously tired but keeps getting up, jumping around on his cot and makes loud noises.....or I spend that hour hounding on him making myself literally go crazy. Then when he is asleep, a pin drop will wake him up. What if my baby makes a little bit of noise during nap time and it wakes him up....I can't breastfeed and hound on him every 5 seconds to be quiet like I do now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
There's your #1 reason.

Honestly, if you're thinking of terming, do it before you move and before the baby. It's not fair to the little guy if he has to move with you, and then move again to another daycare.

Something like:

"DCM, as you know, we've been working on dcb's behavior together, and I really appreciate that. However, with the baby coming, it's become clear to me that 'm most concerned with my ability to properly supervise him when I have a newborn. So, I think it's best that when we move, it might be a good time for dcb to go to a place where there are more (children his own age, more staff members, more older children to model positive behaviors..whichever fits). I know it's the best decision for all of us, and I don't want him to have to go through too many changes at once".

???

Sorry...you didn't ask me, you asked a different question, but that sprang to mind when I saw "baby, move, aggressive child"....lol
I would but we move next week and I give 2 week notices. I feel bad about the whole thing because the parents do want to work on his behavior and they have had really bad luck finding daycare. The last daycare was a free-for-all, which is probably partially why he is the way he is. But you're right....I really don't see an improvement with a new environment....I am expecting it to get worse. I hope the aggression is not aimed at the baby either. Just today, he pushed a child off the top of the slide because he wanted to go down immediately, shoved another child down because he was within 8 inches of his space, and tried swatting at another child in the bathroom who was 2-3 feet away from him (this instance I can only assume was done in jest because the other child did nothing to instigate his behavior....in fact I purposely had them separated several feet).
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:58 PM
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I see the other thread about aggression and wonder if I should just stick it through because it is age-appropriate. My dh really thinks that his behavior is workable. My mom thinks it's also totally normal and to just deal with it.



Ok, so once you reach that point and let's say nothing has improved, you give a 2 week notice? How much improvement do you look for? I know I'm being totally unreasonable here but I really want to see a vast improvement.....I can't have a loud, wild and aggressive child who doesn't follow directions with a newborn. Plus, he naps terribly here. Everyone (including my own children) naps 2 1/2 to 3 hours and he naps 1 1/2 hours. The other hour is at the beginning of the nap period where he is obviously tired but keeps getting up, jumping around on his cot and makes loud noises.....or I spend that hour hounding on him making myself literally go crazy. Then when he is asleep, a pin drop will wake him up. What if my baby makes a little bit of noise during nap time and it wakes him up....I can't breastfeed and hound on him every 5 seconds to be quiet like I do now.
Yes, once I feel I am done, stick a fork in me...I give notice. If notice is due to an extremely frustrating situation, I usually always leave them an out...Like if they want to leave before the two weeks is up, they can and I won't charge.

As far as the amount of improvement or how much I like to see...for me, I like to see at least half the days the child is present are positive days.

So if the child attends 5 days a week, I "need" atleast 3 of those days to be manageable"

If I feel like I literally dread the child's arrival or presence every day then it's time to just be done.

While I agree that sometimes aggressive behaviors is a phase and part of normal development it doesn't mean we (as providers) HAVE to tough it out. Especially if the downside is our own stress. kwim?

YOUR stress level and willingness to continue (or not continue) is MORE important than anything else.

If you have gotten this far and the child really does cause some anxiety for you....then give yourself permission to be done.

It's okay.

Even if others (your mom and DH) don't see it that way. They aren't the one trying to forge a relationship with the child and they are not the ones caring for him and managing his behaviors day in and day out.

You are.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:48 PM
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No way.

I think you need to hear it's OK to let him go. It IS.

If you don't like him, if it hasn't improved in the months he has been there, if he IS naturally louder, wilder, more physical and aggressive and you don't want that for your group- term.

Even as your shadow he is already managing to hit a few times/day. That WILL be multiplied if you're busy with a newborn.

I accept a LOT of new 2's into care. MOST do NOT behave that way. It is NOT normal to be THAT aggressive. It's normal for a very frustrated toddler to hit/lash out. It's NOT normal for that behavior to be near-constant.

I would let them know that if things haven't improved by X date (2 weeks out) you have no other choice but to let him go. He needs a place with multiple adults to manage him.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:54 PM
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No way.

I think you need to hear it's OK to let him go. It IS.

If you don't like him, if it hasn't improved in the months he has been there, if he IS naturally louder, wilder, more physical and aggressive and you don't want that for your group- term.

Even as your shadow he is already managing to hit a few times/day. That WILL be multiplied if you're busy with a newborn.

I accept a LOT of new 2's into care. MOST do NOT behave that way. It is NOT normal to be THAT aggressive. It's normal for a very frustrated toddler to hit/lash out. It's NOT normal for that behavior to be near-constant.

I would let them know that if things haven't improved by X date (2 weeks out) you have no other choice but to let him go. He needs a place with multiple adults to manage him.
I agree and I would state that multiple adults may be necessary to ensure the safety of all.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:17 PM
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Even if others (your mom and DH) don't see it that way. They aren't the one trying to forge a relationship with the child and they are not the ones caring for him and managing his behaviors day in and day out.

You are.
Yes, and they aren't the ones very pregnant, going through a move and dealing with this behavior...not to mention taking care of a newborn AND dealing with this behavior.

I stick a fork in you. You are done
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