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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Overeating? WWYD?
daycarediva 05:49 AM 05-08-2014
Here is my situation, I have a child in care, for nearly a year, age 3.5 now, that continually overeats. It didn't use to be an issue, I would stop him after seconds, he would pout, sometimes cry, and then be fine. Now that he is talking more, he is telling his Mom that he is SO HUNGRY and he only ate (insert contents of last meal).

It isn't a growth spurt, as it has been ongoing. Child is on the heavier side, in the 98th% for weight, around 40% for height. He is not fully potty trained and is outgrowing all pullups, Mom is now purchasing good nights, because that is all that fits.

I really feel as if the child has no full sensation. He is given a LOT of milk at home, in between and with meals, and he always needs to be FULL, kwim? He is also allowed to snack/graze at home (eg. fruit snacks in between a meal/snack)

Yesterday he ate:

8am- 2 generous slices of HM banana bread, 2 whole bananas.

11:30-2 grilled chicken wraps, 2 servings of broccoli, 3 servings of carrots (and not SMALL portions, either)

3-2slices of honeydew, and a cup of goldfish crackers

Went home at 4:30 and according to Mom, he was whining in the car at pickup that he was hungry, (solved because Mom keeps snacks in the car, so he had cheese crackers) and throwing a full fledged tantrum for food by 5. They HAD to stop at fast food on the way home because he could NOT wait for dinner.

I was busy and stumped, I just told her that I serve him double what the food program recommends for his age, and that if I were to give him 3rds, the other kids wouldn't be able to have seconds. She left in a huff, of course.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:53 AM 05-08-2014
I would say exactly what you did. Feeding him any additional food beyond SECONDS would really just be unhealthy and there is no need. He will be just fine and not starve to death in your care eating more than an adult would eat.
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CraftyMom 06:01 AM 05-08-2014
That's more than I eat!

You're only required to serve him his portion plus seconds. I wouldn't give him any more than that. I would explain to mom, as you've done, that he is not starving, he is given plenty. If she wants to take it up with licensing you would be doing your part by not contributing to his over eating.

Mom is enabling this over eating... and stop for fast food before supper?

Are the parents over weight? Maybe he's modeling their eating habits.
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cara041083 06:32 AM 05-08-2014
I would have told her what you said, and If she says something again about it, I would nicely explain to her that if she wants you to give him more, then she will need to pay for it. I would document (you may already do that but Im not on the food program so I don't know what all you have to do ) Then I would give it to her at pick up and show her everything you feed him so she can't go back and say you didn't feed him, and explain to her that your concerned that he never feels full. There are alot of things that could cause that sensation, and If it was my kids I would have already had him to the doctor to have him checked.
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preschoolteacher 06:34 AM 05-08-2014
I agree you're doing what you should. Maybe tell mom that if he must eat more than twice the recommended amount that she can provide extra food for that purpose?
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Laurel 06:34 AM 05-08-2014
He is probably getting plenty and you are serving him good food.

However, I used to be a commando low carber and met one lady on a forum who had sooo much trouble losing and also said she didn't seem to have an 'off button' where food was concerned. She had a very interesting case. She'd post exactly what she ate for months and no one could figure it out. Finally, after much experimenting, she finally got her button to go off. She had to go almost no carb. Even milk in her coffee triggered her 'button'. It was so very weird.

I'm sure yours doesn't have anything like that but it wouldn't hurt to reduce his carbs and give him some protein with every meal and snack. I'd put peanut butter on his banana, give him yogurt with fruit rather than crackers, a hard boiled or scrambled egg instead of the banana bread, etc.

Even though bananas and yogurt are not really low carb (I have to keep reminding myself I'm not commando anymore or even a low carber per se ) it would be what I would do for a while. More fiber would be good also and whole milk over 2%. Remember Playcare said drinking full fat milk helped her be less hungry in another thread?

I am reading a book now by Bob Harper my favorite exercise guru (of the Biggest Loser fame) and he says "Eat protein with every meal or be grouchy."

Laurel
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Cradle2crayons 06:35 AM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
That's more than I eat!

You're only required to serve him his portion plus seconds. I wouldn't give him any more than that. I would explain to mom, as you've done, that he is not starving, he is given plenty. If she wants to take it up with licensing you would be doing your part by not contributing to his over eating.

Mom is enabling this over eating... and stop for fast food before supper?

Are the parents over weight? Maybe he's modeling their eating habits.
exactly. I will NOT for ANY reason serve a child more than their APPROPRIATE serving and a small seconds. PERIOD. I don't care what the parents do. Obesity is a huge issue. And I'm not going to contribute to it in any way.

Children that are over fed from very early don't show hunger cues. That prettymuch proves the parents have been over feeding since he very beginning.
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NightOwl 06:42 AM 05-08-2014
Do you send home daily sheets that say what he ate? I would go as far as taking a picture of his meals so that she can see he is eating PLENTY. That much food would feed 3 kids! And I would encourage a doctor's visit. Provide her with a copy of the normal serving amounts for his age so that she sees the vast difference in what is normally consumed and what he's consuming. To be frank, this kid's eating habits is costing you money. It's literally like feeding at least 3, instead of just one.
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debbiedoeszip 06:45 AM 05-08-2014
So long as you are confident that he's receiving adequate calories, then I'd offer him water (it can be temporarily filling) instead of more food, and keep him very busy with fun activities (in case he's become used to eating when bored or under-stimulated).
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MarinaVanessa 06:47 AM 05-08-2014
Can you substitute one item with protein? I see that at lunch he had chicken and that may keep him full for a bit but can you give him protein during his snacks and for breakfast? Protein keeps you feeling not hungry longer. H
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CraftyMom 07:02 AM 05-08-2014
Also, I've heard that often times when someone feels hungry they are actually thirsty and don't realize it, leading to eating when not necessary to fill the void. From what I hear this is often the case with over eaters who rarely drink water. Perhaps he needs to drink more water?
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Kelly 07:09 AM 05-08-2014
Is he on target developmentally? There is a genetic condition called Prader-Willi Syndrome which causes the child to always feel hungry, but it usually also includes developmental delays.
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Leigh 07:12 AM 05-08-2014
If a child this age is seriously overeating, he needs to see a doctor (I'd find a specialist). There is likely a good reason that the child feels so hungry.
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countrymom 07:45 AM 05-08-2014
sounds to me that he's also eating out of boredom. I would only serve the appropriate size and thats it. If he's hungry tell him to go and play with something. Also, why is he not potty trained.
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sharlan 08:00 AM 05-08-2014
I would suggest more protein and less carbs, more water.
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Second Home 08:12 AM 05-08-2014
He complIains he is hungry and his mom gives him snacks or fast food . It sounds like he knows he will get junk food if he complains to mom . Playing you against her to get food .

Sounds like you are doing the right thing .
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Blackcat31 08:13 AM 05-08-2014
I would supply DCM with the meal requirements (including portion sizes) from the food program.

I would tell her you are NOT required to serve seconds and you can't always guarantee that there will be seconds or that the seconds will always be served to him. Others like seconds too.

I would ask DCM to take DCB to the Dr and have the Dr write out a specific diet including portion sizes. IF the diet the Dr suggests exceeds what you normally serve, have DCM absorb that cost.

I would treat this like ANY other dietary issue that requires a special diet statement.
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melilley 08:21 AM 05-08-2014
I have a 1.5 yo dc who is the same way. He will eat adult sized portions and always wants more. The parents just laugh and say they give him what he wants at home. He is not big/obese by any means, but his parents are.

I do give him more than the required portion, but also stop at seconds.

I agree, I think that you are doing the right thing. He is getting fed and taken care of.
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Laurel 08:55 AM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I would supply DCM with the meal requirements (including portion sizes) from the food program.

I would tell her you are NOT required to serve seconds and you can't always guarantee that there will be seconds or that the seconds will always be served to him. Others like seconds too.

I would ask DCM to take DCB to the Dr and have the Dr write out a specific diet including portion sizes. IF the diet the Dr suggests exceeds what you normally serve, have DCM absorb that cost.

I would treat this like ANY other dietary issue that requires a special diet statement.
I really like the idea of having the doctor write down the portion sizes (or a registered dietician). That way it is out of a provider's hands and onto the parent.

Laurel
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Laurel 08:58 AM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
Do you send home daily sheets that say what he ate? I would go as far as taking a picture of his meals so that she can see he is eating PLENTY. That much food would feed 3 kids! And I would encourage a doctor's visit. Provide her with a copy of the normal serving amounts for his age so that she sees the vast difference in what is normally consumed and what he's consuming. To be frank, this kid's eating habits is costing you money. It's literally like feeding at least 3, instead of just one.


Also, if you are on the food program Daycarediva (which I am not) ask for their recommendations. That is their job so make them do it.

Laurel
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daycarediva 10:02 AM 05-08-2014
THANK YOU ALL! She is now emailing me about it, even breaking down how many servings of fruit, veg, grain and protein he gets a day and telling ME to add more. ????

He doesn't LIKE most protein sources, especially animal. He will eat it if it's in something. I give all kids yogurt or eggs at breakfast, even though I am not required by the food program to do so. He ALWAYS refuses them. He was fine with the chicken, since I put greek yogurt on it (instead of mayo) and it was in a wrap. If I make a cheeseburger- he won't eat the meat, picks off the cheese, eats the bun.

He drinks a TON of water. As soon as we are done with meals, we clean up the table, and their sport style water bottles are filled and available. He goes through around 3 refills of a 16oz cup during the day. That's another potty training issue. He soaks through every single pull up unless it's changed every 2 hours or so.

Originally Posted by Laurel:
He is probably getting plenty and you are serving him good food.

However, I used to be a commando low carber and met one lady on a forum who had sooo much trouble losing and also said she didn't seem to have an 'off button' where food was concerned. She had a very interesting case. She'd post exactly what she ate for months and no one could figure it out. Finally, after much experimenting, she finally got her button to go off. She had to go almost no carb. Even milk in her coffee triggered her 'button'. It was so very weird.

I'm sure yours doesn't have anything like that but it wouldn't hurt to reduce his carbs and give him some protein with every meal and snack. I'd put peanut butter on his banana, give him yogurt with fruit rather than crackers, a hard boiled or scrambled egg instead of the banana bread, etc.

Even though bananas and yogurt are not really low carb (I have to keep reminding myself I'm not commando anymore or even a low carber per se ) it would be what I would do for a while. More fiber would be good also and whole milk over 2%. Remember Playcare said drinking full fat milk helped her be less hungry in another thread?

I am reading a book now by Bob Harper my favorite exercise guru (of the Biggest Loser fame) and he says "Eat protein with every meal or be grouchy."

Laurel
I am a low carb eater, I have PCOS and several other medical issues. If I eat bread, I am a SLUG. This child is a carboholic.

I also make as much as possible homemade- my HM banana bread was made with whole wheat flour. Whole wheat is FILLING.

Originally Posted by countrymom:
sounds to me that he's also eating out of boredom. I would only serve the appropriate size and thats it. If he's hungry tell him to go and play with something. Also, why is he not potty trained.
His parents are lazy. Seriously, there is no other explanation. By Friday he is having no accidents. When he returns, ONLY accidents.

Our day is also SUPER structured, he gets very little down time.


Originally Posted by Second Home:
He complIains he is hungry and his mom gives him snacks or fast food . It sounds like he knows he will get junk food if he complains to mom . Playing you against her to get food .

Sounds like you are doing the right thing .
I think this has something to do with it as well. This child is not allowed to cry, be sad, etc and I am sure they use food/snacks/treats to help with that.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I would supply DCM with the meal requirements (including portion sizes) from the food program.

I would tell her you are NOT required to serve seconds and you can't always guarantee that there will be seconds or that the seconds will always be served to him. Others like seconds too.

I would ask DCM to take DCB to the Dr and have the Dr write out a specific diet including portion sizes. IF the diet the Dr suggests exceeds what you normally serve, have DCM absorb that cost.

I would treat this like ANY other dietary issue that requires a special diet statement.
That's a GREAT IDEA! I can write up what our menu is, what he consumed, and what dcm's concerns are on your form. THEN have the dr sign it, or state that he is missing components, etc. PERFECT!


I know I missed a bunch of people I need to respond to, not sure why the quotes didn't all show up.

I send home take home sheets, his ALWAYS list seconds. He eats every 2-3ish hours. He eats at home before arriving, around 6:30. With me he eats- breakfast 8-8:30, lunch 11:30-12, snack 3-3:30. He gets picked up at 4:30 and had a happy meal in his hand by 5. THEN ate dinner (no idea what that consisted of).

I take photos of our meals and snack and post them on my private facebook page. His parents are aware that he IS being fed, and what quantity.

He loves ALL food, except protein. Wont touch eggs, yogurt, plain meat (eats nuggets, and convenience style breaded items though) I have been allowing him to 'finish up' the veggies after everyone has seconds as well.

His parents are very overweight. Mom tries, but her idea of healthy is anything labeled fat free or low fat. Oreos are healthy if labeled low fat in her opinion. Mom enrolled him with me initially to get a healther lifestyle for him. Meals, exercise and outdoor play. He was previously in a licensed group daycare, they did a lot of convenience food, allowed the kids to carry around milk in sippy cups all day, and did the minimum outside time and if the wind was blowing or it 'looked like rain' they didn't go outside. Also, lots of TV.

When he first started here, he had MASSIVE blowouts from all of the fiber being introduced to his diet. We ended up having to have Mom bring lunch and I would give him half my lunch/half hers (PB&J'S on white, crackers, fruit roll ups, sunny D....)

He also eats VERY fast to the point of gagging himself. When he first started he would eat all of his food, then make grabs for everyone elses. I still have to pace him. I have him sit down last, remind the kids to chew chew chew, stop him from shoveling more food in several times during each meal.

He also exhibits sensory seeking behavior, and is a little behind-motor skills, still does one stair at a time, fist holds a pencil, can't use scissors at all. His expressive language is fine, but I do have concerns with receptive. Mom thinks he is a genius, just klutzy, so that conversation didn't go well.
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Cradle2crayons 10:13 AM 05-08-2014
I wanted to insert here... I had a dcg a long time ago who was obese and both parents.

Same situation. Parents wayyyyyyy over fed the child.

I asked mom to get dietary recommendations on serving sizes even specifics from their pediatrician. The pediatrician (their family Friend) wrote to give the child every quantity as often as they wanted.

I sent them back to the dr with a list of what he child was consuming. Again the dr (who is also very obese if that matters) said the child could have unlimited portion whenever however they wanted. Even wrote HUGE portion sizes my own husband can't consume.

At that point I had to have a very awkward conversation with mom about what I was willing and not willing to do.

Several months later I found out that apparently they went to the dr for something unrelated and the dr that was covering for the family friend dr went smooth OFF on dcm about the health of the child and even threatened to call Dhs if mom didn't step up and do right.

I was like
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TwinKristi 10:59 AM 05-08-2014
I would just explain that this is the way it is. Obesity is a huge problem in the child care industry especially. Like 75% of children in childcare are overweight according to the nutrition class I took. It's not that way in my childcare, but in others it is. I only have 1 that would be considered overweight, and he eats like a man. He's a meat and potatoes (and carbs) kinda kid. He would eat 2 adults sized portions of pasta if that's what you served. He has issues with chewing, stuffing, etc. so I really try to limit what I give him and the size. He would stick half of a banana in his mouth at once if you let him. I think part of the problem is that he doesn't chew his food, he eats too fast and he just keeps going. His full sensor doesn't tell him right away because his body hasn't caught up with what eaten yet.
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Unregistered 11:27 AM 05-08-2014
When I used to teach in a public school, there was a girl was very obese. She was in first grade and weighed more than I do. She would eat breakfast at home, breakfast in the before school program, eat school lunch, and her "snack" from home was always a full lunch. She was getting to the point of having trouble walking. It was a very sad situation. Then I went down to the kindergarten for something. Her little sister was in that class and even bigger. I'm assuming the same routine. I worked in a building that had p-5. The majority of the children were very obese. I was friends with a prek teacher there. One boy's daily snack was pop tarts, a fruit cup, chips, and a HUGE juice. She told me the mom would check the lunch box and make sure it was all eaten and complain if a crumb was left.

This is why I don't offer meals (and allergies). All food has to be brought in. I've had a few parents try to "forget lunch" and I give them a handful of crackers and milk. The parents are told at nap and at pick up "You broke the contract. Your child will not be allowed in tomorrow. Please make other arrangements". In the four years I've been doing it, it has cost me clients. You know what? Those were the children who other "issues" and I looking to dump asap anyway. It was never children who were well behaved and parents who weren't PITAs. I have a good friend who runs a daycare a few towns over and she tells me time and time again a lot of parents see free food as a buffet.
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Laurel 12:06 PM 05-08-2014
I'm glad he'll at least eat fruits/veggies. Might a protein shake be an option? I make one from Bob's book if you are interested, I will post it. Maybe one with protein powder? I guess kid's can have that. Not sure why they couldn't.

Laurel
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Laurel 12:07 PM 05-08-2014
Could probably hide tofu in dips/puddings.
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Heidi 01:11 PM 05-08-2014
I was going to suggest more protein, more water, less carbs. Seems that's already been handled.

If he eats the bun, leaves the protein, I'd give him a tiny little bun (or half a piece of bread). When he asks for more, I'd say "sure, as soon as your plate is empty".

Throwing away the protein that will keep him full while complaining about being hungry constantly? nahh...

I'd go so far as putting his plate in the fridge, and when he complains about being hungry, saying "well, good thing I saved your hamburger from lunch! "
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dalman 01:29 PM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
He also eats VERY fast to the point of gagging himself. When he first started he would eat all of his food, then make grabs for everyone elses. I still have to pace him. I have him sit down last, remind the kids to chew chew chew, stop him from shoveling more food in several times during each meal.

He also exhibits sensory seeking behavior, and is a little behind-motor skills, still does one stair at a time, fist holds a pencil, can't use scissors at all. His expressive language is fine, but I do have concerns with receptive. Mom thinks he is a genius, just klutzy, so that conversation didn't go well.
From what you have shared, I would not be surprised to find that there are some developmental issues. None of this is "normal" 3 1/2 year old behavior. So the conversation with Mom didn't go well, but eventually he will have to go to preschool screening and hopefully they will pick up on some of his issues and get him the help he needs. I would not continue to overfeed him as this does constitute abuse. Does he have any of the symptoms of Down Syndrome? This is typical behavior for someone with DS. Good luck. Unfortunately Mom isn't any help.
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Laurel 01:44 PM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I was going to suggest more protein, more water, less carbs. Seems that's already been handled.

If he eats the bun, leaves the protein, I'd give him a tiny little bun (or half a piece of bread). When he asks for more, I'd say "sure, as soon as your plate is empty".

Throwing away the protein that will keep him full while complaining about being hungry constantly? nahh...

I'd go so far as putting his plate in the fridge, and when he complains about being hungry, saying "well, good thing I saved your hamburger from lunch! "

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Blackcat31 01:52 PM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by dalman:
From what you have shared, I would not be surprised to find that there are some developmental issues. None of this is "normal" 3 1/2 year old behavior. So the conversation with Mom didn't go well, but eventually he will have to go to preschool screening and hopefully they will pick up on some of his issues and get him the help he needs. I would not continue to overfeed him as this does constitute abuse. Does he have any of the symptoms of Down Syndrome? This is typical behavior for someone with DS. Good luck. Unfortunately Mom isn't any help.
I hear and understand what you are saying but over feeding a child, at least not continuing to feed him in the same manner as his parents does not constitute abuse.

Poor eating habits, unhealthy life style, misinformed about proper diet and nutrition maybe but not abuse.

If it were abuse OP should immediately call CPS and report the parent.

It sounds to me more like the parents simply do not understand how to eat a healthy diet. OP said they, themselves were over weight. Also many working parents give in to their child's screams for food (whether it be type of food or amount of food) just so their child isn't unhappy.

We've all heard it before.... "I don't want them to be hungry so I gave them a cookie for breakfast" or "They will only eat PB & J".. etc

That isn't abuse...it's ignorance.

I think DaycareDiva got some really good advice about how to deal with this issue...involving a doctor or certified nutritionalist and I definitely think that is the route she should go as it provides a long term solution (healthier eating/education) for the issue.
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Kelly 02:16 PM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by dalman:
Does he have any of the symptoms of Down Syndrome? This is typical behavior for someone with DS.
While this behavior could be somewhat more common in people with DS or other disailities (such as Prader-Willi Syndrome as I mentioned before) I wouldn't say that it is actually typical of children with DS. I have 2 sons with DS and neither of them has a problem like this nor do any of the other people with DS that I know. Also, while it is possible, it is very unlikely that a child would get to be 3.5 years old without being diagnosed with DS although it could be a sign of some type of developmental disability.
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Angelsj 05:23 PM 05-08-2014
98% for weight
Drinks a Ton
Eating a ton
Wets a lot

If this were my child, I would get his blood sugar checked. These are all signs of diabetes. Considering the weight, probably a type 2 that could be controlled with diet.
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Heidi 06:16 PM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
98% for weight
Drinks a Ton
Eating a ton
Wets a lot

If this were my child, I would get his blood sugar checked. These are all signs of diabetes. Considering the weight, probably a type 2 that could be controlled with diet.
Yes....or he pees a lot because he drinks a lot,...and he eats and drinks a lot...because he's been conditioned to eat and drink a lot.
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Angelsj 06:34 PM 05-08-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Yes....or he pees a lot because he drinks a lot,...and he eats and drinks a lot...because he's been conditioned to eat and drink a lot.
All true, but the test for diabetes is quick and easy. It couldn't hurt to rule it out.
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daycarediva 03:45 AM 05-09-2014
I took my form (I got from BC) documented everything, attached a copy of my menu for this week and what serving sizes he had eaten and the times, I also noted how much water he drank and photocopied my take home logs which outline how much he uses the bathroom, even noted when he soaked through.

I handed it to Mom last night at pickup and asked her to review it with her pediatrician, and to have him sign it. I voiced my concerns over his hunger/thirst being a possible medical issue. Mom said "Like diabetes?"

Of course it IS in dcb's best interest, but when she picked up, and I told her he ate seconds of EVERYTHING and 4 16oz cups of water and was still saying "hungry" "thirsty", I was worried.

Mom is an RN, so IMHO, she should know better, but doesn't. Definite lack of knowledge/education on nutrition. This child is not abused, quite the opposite.

He is being picked up early for an appt today.
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Laurel 04:32 AM 05-09-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I took my form (I got from BC) documented everything, attached a copy of my menu for this week and what serving sizes he had eaten and the times, I also noted how much water he drank and photocopied my take home logs which outline how much he uses the bathroom, even noted when he soaked through.

I handed it to Mom last night at pickup and asked her to review it with her pediatrician, and to have him sign it. I voiced my concerns over his hunger/thirst being a possible medical issue. Mom said "Like diabetes?"

Of course it IS in dcb's best interest, but when she picked up, and I told her he ate seconds of EVERYTHING and 4 16oz cups of water and was still saying "hungry" "thirsty", I was worried.

Mom is an RN, so IMHO, she should know better, but doesn't. Definite lack of knowledge/education on nutrition. This child is not abused, quite the opposite.

He is being picked up early for an appt today.
Great, let us know what happens!

Laurel
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CraftyMom 05:48 AM 05-09-2014
That's great!

Being a nurse I'm SURE she knows better. Moms often have blinders on when it comes to our own kids.

Funny she brought up diabetes right away, maybe there is a family history. Or maybe she already suspected it herself
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NightOwl 07:16 AM 05-09-2014
Fantastic! Please update us!
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SilverSabre25 08:28 AM 05-09-2014
Definitely update. I'm curious now :P
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daycarediva 05:39 AM 05-13-2014
UPDATE

dck is having fasting bloodwork done..

dcm returned the form yesterday with the nurse having written out a statement agreeing with the food program meal components and sizes (eg. one piece of toast, one serving of fruit for breakfast is FINE).

Says to limit milk consumption to 8-12oz at daycare, and 4oz at home with dinner, specifically says fat free.

Dr says even reduce fruit servings to 1/day since he always gets seconds. Offer vegetables or low fat protein like yogurt at snacks. Dcm brought in GO GURT (24g sugar EACH) to give him at snack. I have plain greek that I will offer him instead.

It also says he is to return in one month to recheck his weight. Dcm is taking him Friday AM for his fasting blood work.

He is also now off the charts for weight. Around 50% for height.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:49 AM 05-13-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
UPDATE

dck is having fasting bloodwork done..

dcm returned the form yesterday with the nurse having written out a statement agreeing with the food program meal components and sizes (eg. one piece of toast, one serving of fruit for breakfast is FINE).

Says to limit milk consumption to 8-12oz at daycare, and 4oz at home with dinner, specifically says fat free.

Dr says even reduce fruit servings to 1/day since he always gets seconds. Offer vegetables or low fat protein like yogurt at snacks. Dcm brought in GO GURT (24g sugar EACH) to give him at snack. I have plain greek that I will offer him instead.

It also says he is to return in one month to recheck his weight. Dcm is taking him Friday AM for his fasting blood work.

He is also now off the charts for weight. Around 50% for height.
You are the reason this child won't be killed with food.
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CraftyMom 06:33 AM 05-13-2014
That is wonderful!

This may have continued on for years or forever if you hadn't stepped up!

Hopefully the parents follow through on their end

I assume the doctor is also worried about diabetes since the test was ordered. For the child's sake I hope it comes back negative.
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Laurel 07:29 AM 05-13-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
You are the reason this child won't be killed with food.

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Meyou 09:05 AM 05-13-2014
I'm so glad you stood your ground on this. That poor boy.
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spinnymarie 09:34 AM 05-13-2014
Awesome news, so glad to hear it.
Great work.
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MarinaVanessa 09:42 AM 05-13-2014
Although I haven't commented on this thread I have been folowing it and I just have to say that I was relieved/excited/happy/proud etc of you and your effort with this family

I hope the blood work turns out ok and that is just a scare for DCM and that things really turn around and they follow through at home with his new diet. The go-gurt dissapoints me though . I would tell DCM that I replaced the go-gurt with real yogurt and mention that go-gurt is like giving a chid Tampico in place of fresh OJ. And really, yogurt cups are MUCH less expensive than when you buy the smaller packages like go-gurts. Here's to hoping it's an eye opener for mom
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daycarediva 10:04 AM 05-13-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
Although I haven't commented on this thread I have been folowing it and I just have to say that I was relieved/excited/happy/proud etc of you and your effort with this family

I hope the blood work turns out ok and that is just a scare for DCM and that things really turn around and they follow through at home with his new diet. The go-gurt dissapoints me though . I would tell DCM that I replaced the go-gurt with real yogurt and mention that go-gurt is like giving a chid Tampico in place of fresh OJ. And really, yogurt cups are MUCH less expensive than when you buy the smaller packages like go-gurts. Here's to hoping it's an eye opener for mom
I told her as soon as I saw the package. The only flavored yogurt I buy is vanilla. Mainly, plain greek and I use real fruit popped into the food processor to add flavoring for me/my kids/daycare kids.

They aren't happy with me AT ALL, of course. Dcd usually picks up and he hasn't been here since I spoke to him. I am the bearer of bad news. I am surprised Mom didn't pull, honestly. I did send her a nice email thanking her for working with me to help dcb and for making his health her #1 priority.

They brought him here KNOWING I love health and fitness and put a great deal of that into my program, so I am more surprised at her, to be honest.

Dcb had 1/2 wheat bagel with FF cream cheese, 1/2c strawberries and 1/2c cottage cheese for breakfast (4 oz milk)

He had 1/2 serving of diced chicken with sugar free ketchup (hoping that would help get him to eat protein, it did help) 8 whole wheat crackers, fresh steamed broccoli (2 servings) and salad with raspberry vinaigrette (2 servings).

I changed my menus to reduce his carb consumption, no pasta! and sent updated menus to the other parents---blaming it on the warm weather, and wanting to have lighter meals.
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MarinaVanessa 12:36 PM 05-13-2014
That's great that you found a way for him to eat the chicken. Hopefully he will be easy to wean from the extra sauces/dips after a time and he'll eat protein better. Good luck with all of this.

Isn't it amazing that parents get angry at the wrong people? How dare you care about their child's health you mad woman?!?! Can't you see that it was easier for these parents to feed him fatty/sugary/processed foods in exaggerated amounts in order to keep him content?!?! The nerve of some people
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renodeb 01:29 PM 05-14-2014
It sounds to me like he is drinking his calories instead of having reasonable food portions. Can I awesome that he does not drink water? Sometimes them drinking water will help curb cravings. It sounds like he is hooked on carbs? I always make sure my dc has plenty of protein. Sounds like maybe he gets his way at home and expects that from you and mom is of little help.
To be honest I would not ask her to bring extra foods because I think that would just invite trouble around the other kids. I think you need to tell her that you will have to raise your rate by 10 dollars a week otobe able to feed him and see what she says! Keep us posted!
According to the food program he only needs 1/2 cup or so a meal!
Deb
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daycarediva 02:40 PM 05-14-2014
Originally Posted by renodeb:
It sounds to me like he is drinking his calories instead of having reasonable food portions. Can I awesome that he does not drink water? Sometimes them drinking water will help curb cravings. It sounds like he is hooked on carbs? I always make sure my dc has plenty of protein. Sounds like maybe he gets his way at home and expects that from you and mom is of little help.
To be honest I would not ask her to bring extra foods because I think that would just invite trouble around the other kids. I think you need to tell her that you will have to raise your rate by 10 dollars a week otobe able to feed him and see what she says! Keep us posted!
According to the food program he only needs 1/2 cup or so a meal!
Deb
He has seconds or more at every meal, of every component (except sole proteins, those have to be in something or mixed, dip, etc).

He drinks a TON of water. TON.

He is a carboholic. Food is also used as a pacifier, and he eats at least every 2 hours while he is awake. At home, there is always food available to 'graze on'. I'm torn between thinking he has a medical issue/condition (like diabetes) OR he has no full sensation and is always overfed so as soon as he feels LESS full, he thinks=hungry. Kwim?

He LOVES fresh fruit, fresh/raw veggies. I did my stand by "Eat all the veggies you want" thinking he was just playing me and would stop when I didn't give a preferred food group. Nope, he would eat bags of salad.
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CraftyMom 10:08 AM 05-30-2014
How did his results turn out?
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NightOwl 10:34 AM 05-30-2014
Any updates diva?
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My3cents 10:51 AM 05-30-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
UPDATE

dck is having fasting bloodwork done..

dcm returned the form yesterday with the nurse having written out a statement agreeing with the food program meal components and sizes (eg. one piece of toast, one serving of fruit for breakfast is FINE).

Says to limit milk consumption to 8-12oz at daycare, and 4oz at home with dinner, specifically says fat free.

Dr says even reduce fruit servings to 1/day since he always gets seconds. Offer vegetables or low fat protein like yogurt at snacks. Dcm brought in GO GURT (24g sugar EACH) to give him at snack. I have plain greek that I will offer him instead.

It also says he is to return in one month to recheck his weight. Dcm is taking him Friday AM for his fasting blood work.

He is also now off the charts for weight. Around 50% for height.
so did you tell her that the yoghurt she brought in had 24g of sugar? She is just oblivious or has a small budget for food which means she buys the junk foods that cost less. Good for you- this is a perfect example of how a provider can make a good impact difference in both the child and families lives-

I would increase his water, separate the food on his plate so it looks like he has more then he does and then make him wait for 2nds until everyone is finished eating to get more. I would do this for a child that I felt was over weight, but normally for my kiddos if they want more I give it to them because they all know their full and are very active here.
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My3cents 10:58 AM 05-30-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
He has seconds or more at every meal, of every component (except sole proteins, those have to be in something or mixed, dip, etc).

He drinks a TON of water. TON.

He is a carboholic. Food is also used as a pacifier, and he eats at least every 2 hours while he is awake. At home, there is always food available to 'graze on'. I'm torn between thinking he has a medical issue/condition (like diabetes) OR he has no full sensation and is always overfed so as soon as he feels LESS full, he thinks=hungry. Kwim?

He LOVES fresh fruit, fresh/raw veggies. I did my stand by "Eat all the veggies you want" thinking he was just playing me and would stop when I didn't give a preferred food group. Nope, he would eat bags of salad.
I think all your doing is great for this little one......but keep in mind they are going to do what they want at home. If the parents are over weight they are not that way from eating healthy, little guy knows how to get what he wants from the parents. Sad. And....sometimes all the education in the world can't help someone that is a food addict. Bless you for all your doing!!!

What I do is after 2nds tell the kiddo's its all gone. Unless its something that is healthy for them and then I decide if they need more or not.
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daycarediva 10:01 AM 06-03-2014
UPDATE!

DCM finally had the bloodwork done. She forgot it was fasting () and had to have it rescheduled.


DCK is BORDERLINE diabetic. I figured something was up. The dr set them up with a nutritionist, she has specific serving sizes outlined, brought his dairy intake to 2 servings/day (I have a note for the food program on this, Mom wants both served at home).

My contract states that for a special diet, all food will need to be supplied by the parent. Dcm is of course, not happy with that arrangement and sent me an emailed list of 'acceptable substitutes' for things on the menu dck can't have.

I'm expecting them to give notice Friday. She brought his lunch today, but no breakfast or snacks and got very upset that I wouldn't give him something else. We had HM cereal bars for breakfast, blueberries, milk and for snack-yogurt (plain greek with fruit). Neither of which he can have, his fruit is limited to one serving/day and Mom had packed a banana of all things! I had to have her go home and get him something and come back. It pushed his breakfast time back, dck was upset and dcm of course is mad at me.

Sooo....wwyd? Stick to contract/handbook, make changes to everyone's meals or give ONLY him substitutes? I of course want to pass the additional cost on to DCM if I provide it, but I think she would probably take issue with that as well.

You know, heaven forbid she be the responsible party in all of this.
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craftymissbeth 10:18 AM 06-03-2014
That's so sad. It doesn't sound like she's taking it very seriously, though... if this were my child I'd have no problem sending the food just so my child was healthy.

If your contract says no substitutions then I'd stick to it. I wouldn't accept him without a breakfast, lunch, and snack. And they would have to be in accordance with the doctors orders she provided.
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spinnymarie 10:20 AM 06-03-2014
Awww what a dilemma. Diabetic-friendly substitutions, to me, means that you are basically cooking a SECOND meal for this kid alone. And that is unfair to you. I wouldn't even be willing to pass on cost to mom, I would make her provide it.

I would be wiling to work with her in these ways:
1. Provide a weekly menu (if you don't already) for her to provide ONLY the things that need to be substituted. And if we went off-menu sometimes, I would be willing to provide the necessary substitution for the day.
2. Make sure that some of our snacks each week wouldn't require any substitutions.

And that's it. I think that is reasonable enough.
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Play Care 10:32 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by spinnymarie:
Awww what a dilemma. Diabetic-friendly substitutions, to me, means that you are basically cooking a SECOND meal for this kid alone. And that is unfair to you. I wouldn't even be willing to pass on cost to mom, I would make her provide it.

I would be wiling to work with her in these ways:
1. Provide a weekly menu (if you don't already) for her to provide ONLY the things that need to be substituted. And if we went off-menu sometimes, I would be willing to provide the necessary substitution for the day.
2. Make sure that some of our snacks each week wouldn't require any substitutions.

And that's it. I think that is reasonable enough.
Good idea!
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daycarediva 10:41 AM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by spinnymarie:
Awww what a dilemma. Diabetic-friendly substitutions, to me, means that you are basically cooking a SECOND meal for this kid alone. And that is unfair to you. I wouldn't even be willing to pass on cost to mom, I would make her provide it.

I would be wiling to work with her in these ways:
1. Provide a weekly menu (if you don't already) for her to provide ONLY the things that need to be substituted. And if we went off-menu sometimes, I would be willing to provide the necessary substitution for the day.
2. Make sure that some of our snacks each week wouldn't require any substitutions.

And that's it. I think that is reasonable enough.
That is an awesome compromise! I will email Mom back with this counter offer and see what she says. THANKS!
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itlw8 12:18 PM 06-03-2014
We do need to always remember the food program amount is a MINIMUM amount for an age group it does not mean that is all a child will eat. many children eat 2x that amount especially if they are not on the small side. a taller ( bigger)child will burn more calories I give those more to start with than the others. and yes 2nds after that is it... MOM is allowing it by stopping at McDonalds. Not much you can do about poor eating habits at home.
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itlw8 12:28 PM 06-03-2014
My dh is diabetic and really he does not eat much different than the rest of us. I already use whole grains and watch everyones amount. We eat lots of veggies and some fruit. We balance protein with carbs. Pretty much how I serve all the children But a banana is 2 servings of fruit.
I do not serve many sweets to the kids or dh so that is not a worry
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playground1 12:54 PM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
That's so sad. It doesn't sound like she's taking it very seriously, though... if this were my child I'd have no problem sending the food just so my child was healthy.
Exactly. Like I would be ALL up on that. I've been overweight for most of life and I would never wish that on a kid.
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Josiegirl 03:05 PM 06-03-2014
Originally Posted by Kelly:
Is he on target developmentally? There is a genetic condition called Prader-Willi Syndrome which causes the child to always feel hungry, but it usually also includes developmental delays.
I must've missed this the 1st time through this topic. I have a little girl, adopted at 18 months and she's been coming here for a year now, she's 2 1/2. Her appetite seems almost insatiable and she seems behind in a few ways. It could be anything but when you mentioned both symptoms, it made me stop. I'll have to research this a bit. Right now they're having her evaluated for speech and physical development. Thanks for mentioning this!
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