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Preschool/daycare teacher 06:48 PM 07-23-2011
I have some questions for those of you who have an assistant(s): I've noticed several posts on other threads and there's usually some kind of negative comment regarding their assistant(s). I know not many people are the most fun to deal with day in and day out, 5 days a week, all day, working close together like you do in a home daycare. One of my questions are: (1)when you have a complaint about one, even something as simple as them being "too slow" or "wasteful", do you ever mention anything to them about it, or hint around, or do you just deal with it, but have that negative feeling toward your assistant each time they do whatever it is you don't like? (I'm usually the type who will let the little things go un-mentioned in relationships, even when it bugs me).
(2) What are the little things (usually your pet peeves), that bug you about them? I know they're there because working that close together with someone each and every day will almost ALWAYS bring up some kind of irritant.
I am sort of an assistant, and know I get on the owner's nerves sometimes, and her on mine, but I'd like to know your opinions on having to work that closely with someone you've hired so I'd have some kind of idea whether that aspect of having an assistant would be something I'd want to deal with when I open my own daycare. In other words: (3) do you find it worth it to have an assistant, or if you could get around it, would you just work alone (not counting the financial side of it)?
From an assistants view point, I'd think it'd be better having someone to lessen the load and help out, someone "adult" to have around, a second pair of eyes, etc. But I have heard several comments about assistants and wonder if my mind would change if the roles were reversed (If I were the owner instead).
So please give me your thoughts!
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Preschool/daycare teacher 06:37 PM 07-25-2011
NannyDE, do you have any thoughts? I know you have a lot of experience with assistants and child care center staff. You train them right? Do you find it all worth it? It's not something that I have to know RIGHT now, but I was thinking about it the other day, and I'm one who likes to plan ahead. Sometimes way ahead, before I do something. Deciding how many children I would want to take depends on whether I want to have an assistant, and if it would be worth it for the extra children's income. Some people just aren't the easiest to deal with...how do you train them so that they are who you want working with you?
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nannyde 07:16 PM 07-25-2011
I am working on a blog about staff assistants. I will try to get that up in the next few days. It's going to be at least two parts. Maybe three


In the meantime maybe you can look up some of my old posts:


https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese
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cheerfuldom 07:17 PM 07-25-2011
I think it is way better to start without an assistant and get your bearings in childcare before adding something like an employee to the mix. I am only looking for the basic with my assistants meaning someone punctual, reliable, upbeat attitude and willing to at least play with the kids. Anything else is a bonus. Unfortunately it has been very difficult to find anyone that is punctual and able to handle more than 2 or 3 kids at a time. I have done extensive interviews, pay a good rate, even hired a current public school teacher and still cannot keep anyone longer than a few months. My own preferences have long since fallen by the wayside and all I ask is that they show up and be nice to the kids! I fired 3 people in just this last year.....the public school teacher had the kids in chaos and she was so frazzled and overwhelmed, another worked at a preschool before coming here and said it was too much for her (we have 6 kids max and they are a good bunch, no lie) and the last I fired because she came to work crying in front of the parents, telling them her personal problems and was so emotional all the time due to boyfriend drama and whatnot. Finally I have a great assistant and yes she bugs me on a few things but I can put all that aside if she continues to show up on time with a smile on her face and ready to keep the kids busy.
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cheerfuldom 07:25 PM 07-25-2011
After reading nanny's first link I have to add that I had over 40 responses when I advertised and only two applicants responded to my response to them, filled out the application, made VERY basic requirements and actually showed up to interview. I have also had the cell phone issues and the mom bringing their kid issues. It is very rare for a mom to be able to handle their own child amongst a group of children. Many daycares and schools do not allow this scenario for good reasons. Both of my previous assistants with kids had issues with the kid wanting to be held all the time and screaming thru nap time. Normally I would have termed the kid but in this case, the assistant and the kid were a package deal. Plus I had one mom that wanted to BF here at the end of her shift and ended up staying for up to 40minutes after her shifts and wake up the kids on her way out (and she only lived maybe 10 minutes tops from me).
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PeanutsGalore 11:56 PM 07-25-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I am working on a blog about staff assistants. I will try to get that up in the next few days. It's going to be at least two parts. Maybe three


In the meantime maybe you can look up some of my old posts:


https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese
NannyDe, will you be including info on interviewing them? I'm looking for a daycare assistant and would love to hear your take on the subject.
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wdmmom 08:09 AM 07-26-2011
When I started out, I did it on my own. During the summer, I hired a college student to help out about 15 hours a week. She helped do the weekly sanitizing, some cleaning and helped with the infants and my own kids (schoolagers).

I hired another lady who ended up only working for me for about a month. She got married and got offered a job through a high-end insurance company. (She would have been a fool not to take a job like that!)

I worked by myself for awhile after she left.

I then hired my sister in law and she worked for me for 7 months.

I then was by myself again for awhile.

I advertised the position on Craigslist and had an overwhelming response! I had over 30 people contact me in the 5 days I had the ad up! Of course I had to weed through the crazies and weirdos but I found someone that I thought I would work with wonderfully. She worked for me for a year and still helps out if I need it.

My most recent assistant is new to the working world. This is her first actual job aside babysitting/nannying. She's been here for 4 months now and so far, I haven't had an issue I can't resolve.

There are pros and cons about all the people I've had work for me. No one does anything quite like I do. It took me awhile to get past that at first!
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Crystal 08:30 AM 07-26-2011
I'd say that if the little things that "get on nerves" are not discussed, and there is a feeling of tension in the air, someone is being passive-aggressive, then it is not a very healthy working relationship. I could NOT work like that. I think it is important to be able to discuss those little issues before they become BIG issues.

I also think it is important for the owner/supervisor to be a leader rather than just a manager. You lead by example.....and being passive-aggressive is not a way to lead, IMO.
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Crystal 08:39 AM 07-26-2011
Some other things I think are important:

Have a written job description, with clearly defined roles and responsibilities. Also have a clearly defined procedural policy regarding employee disciplinary action.

Provide a THOROUGH orinetion - a.k.a on-the-job-paid-training. This should include a tour of the entire program, modeling the responsibilities of the tasks the assistant will be required to perform.

WELCOME your assistant to come to you with any and all concerns and be willing to listen impartially, being considerate of those concerns and willing to negotiate when your assistant has a valid concern.
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dEHmom 08:44 AM 07-26-2011
I have been wondering this for a while, but for those of you that have part time assistants, how much do you pay them? I mean, assuming they are not doing this as a main source of income, what % of your earnings do you dish out to an assistant?

Nanny- I'm sure your assistants are well paid, and I could never match that. But I'm just wondering, because I was thinking of hiring a distant unrelated relative who is fairly young (11- 14 yrs old) to help watch the kids, clean up toys, help make lunches etc. I also thought it would be nice to get them to wash the toys for me, and help keep them or get them organized. Maybe even mop and stuff. But I feel like that might be asking too much. And I don't know how much I'd be willing to sacrifice in terms of money, because I find I am tight enough as it is. And taking on an extra child just for the summertime would not be an option.
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MarinaVanessa 08:47 AM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Some other things I think are important:

Have a written job description, with clearly defined roles and responsibilities. Also have a clearly defined procedural policy regarding employee disciplinary action.
Any way you'd be willing to share this? I've been thinking about getting a p/t helper and other people's ideas are great.
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Crystal 08:49 AM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Any way you'd be willing to share this? I've been thinking about getting a p/t helper and other people's ideas are great.
What I have is for my student teachers, as my assistants are my husband and my daughter, but I'd be willing to re-write/add to it to work for an assistant.
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MarinaVanessa 09:32 AM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
What I have is for my student teachers, as my assistants are my husband and my daughter, but I'd be willing to re-write/add to it to work for an assistant.
I wouldn't want you to have to do all of that, I can always do that myself to save you the trouble. The "assistant" is a 15yo that wants to volunteer during school breaks and after school. She's interested in child development and wants to start baby-sitting but has no real experience other than her own siblings. This will give her experience with direct supervision and it will get me free help for a while. If she does well I can write her a letter of recommendation and/or refer to to people that I know. I wanted it to be formal however with some type of guideline and expectations since it will be more than just watching and playing with the kids. Who knows, she might be very good (she's excellent with my 8mo DS) and I might hire her later. I like the idea of being able to train her to the way I do things and starting with a clean slate.
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nannyde 09:39 AM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by dEHmom:
I have been wondering this for a while, but for those of you that have part time assistants, how much do you pay them? I mean, assuming they are not doing this as a main source of income, what % of your earnings do you dish out to an assistant?

Nanny- I'm sure your assistants are well paid, and I could never match that. But I'm just wondering, because I was thinking of hiring a distant unrelated relative who is fairly young (11- 14 yrs old) to help watch the kids, clean up toys, help make lunches etc. I also thought it would be nice to get them to wash the toys for me, and help keep them or get them organized. Maybe even mop and stuff. But I feel like that might be asking too much. And I don't know how much I'd be willing to sacrifice in terms of money, because I find I am tight enough as it is. And taking on an extra child just for the summertime would not be an option.
I have had a number of teens and it worked out really well. They stayed an average of three years each.

Had them come in three hour blocks from three p.m. to six and two three hour blocks in the summer and on breaks.

My first one in 93 was three bucks an hour. with a dollar an hour raise every year. Every year under their belt they become more and more valuable to you so give them raises every year. I also give anniversary bonus, 18 paid days per year, and a christmas bonus of two weeks salary. With my staff assistant that was with me for 7.5 years total she received a 500 dollar bonus when she hit the fifth year. I helped her buy her first car. ;-) I also took her to Europe and Prince Edward Island with me when she was a kid. I paid her and she got a couple of cool trips....

I can't advise you on pay because I don't know what your state requires law wise for kids under the age of 18.

I always went for the oldest child in the family and preference to ones who had much younger siblings (ten year age difference or more). If they are a family that requires their kid to do chores and have responsibility then the kid is happy to do that at your house for money instead of for free.

I wanted a kid that did not do extracurricular activities, was at least a B student (no worky here if you don't get good grades), lived within walking distance to my house, and was NOT responsible for the care of their younger sibs after school.

I had them do all cleaning, laundry folding, chop veggies and fruit, and watch the kids play toys. I did not have them play with the kids or do any educational activities with the kids. Their jobs with the kids was JUST to supervise play and meals and change diapers. NO book reading, arts and crafts, educational.... nothing like that.

When they got old enough to drive then I had them run errands for me. I pay double the tax rate for mileage. So if it's .50 a mile I give 1.00 a mile plus time to shop and run errands.

I had a wonderful relationship with the teens. I became the second Mama. My second and fourth staff assistant brought their kids to me for a few years... that was a blessing like no other.

Bottom line with teenagers is to teach them.... you take care of me and I will TAKE CARE of you. Work HARD and do as I say. If you do... this will be an amazing job for you and I will help you get your next job... and the next. I can teach you a trade that you can carry with you into adulthood to either make a living or to raise your own.

WORD OF CAUTION: do not allow ANY cell phone usage. Get that straight from second one. No "distracted" teens in my house.
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dEHmom 09:55 AM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I have had a number of teens and it worked out really well. They stayed an average of three years each.

Had them come in three hour blocks from three p.m. to six and two three hour blocks in the summer and on breaks.

My first one in 93 was three bucks an hour. with a dollar an hour raise every year. Every year under their belt they become more and more valuable to you so give them raises every year. I also give anniversary bonus, 18 paid days per year, and a christmas bonus of two weeks salary. With my staff assistant that was with me for 7.5 years total she received a 500 dollar bonus when she hit the fifth year. I helped her buy her first car. ;-) I also took her to Europe and Prince Edward Island with me when she was a kid. I paid her and she got a couple of cool trips....

I can't advise you on pay because I don't know what your state requires law wise for kids under the age of 18.

I always went for the oldest child in the family and preference to ones who had much younger siblings (ten year age difference or more). If they are a family that requires their kid to do chores and have responsibility then the kid is happy to do that at your house for money instead of for free.

I wanted a kid that did not do extracurricular activities, was at least a B student (no worky here if you don't get good grades), lived within walking distance to my house, and was NOT responsible for the care of their younger sibs after school.

I had them do all cleaning, laundry folding, chop veggies and fruit, and watch the kids play toys. I did not have them play with the kids or do any educational activities with the kids. Their jobs with the kids was JUST to supervise play and meals and change diapers. NO book reading, arts and crafts, educational.... nothing like that.

When they got old enough to drive then I had them run errands for me. I pay double the tax rate for mileage. So if it's .50 a mile I give 1.00 a mile plus time to shop and run errands.

I had a wonderful relationship with the teens. I became the second Mama. My second and fourth staff assistant brought their kids to me for a few years... that was a blessing like no other.

Bottom line with teenagers is to teach them.... you take care of me and I will TAKE CARE of you. Work HARD and do as I say. If you do... this will be an amazing job for you and I will help you get your next job... and the next. I can teach you a trade that you can carry with you into adulthood to either make a living or to raise your own.

WORD OF CAUTION: do not allow ANY cell phone usage. Get that straight from second one. No "distracted" teens in my house.
Thanks Nan!

I figured if I asked for a roughly 2.5 hour block midday (maybe 10:30am-1:00pm) this would help me out during my most busy time of the day. During the school year the 1:30-3:30 timeframe would be best but I know NO ONE who would be able to do this and I don't want to hire someone I do not know, at least not right now. But I just didn't know if it was right to hire someone to be basically a maid for that time lol. I was thinking even 3 days a week for about 20 bucks a week.

Oh and I definitely would not allow cell phones or internet.
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dEHmom 11:23 AM 07-26-2011
ok, so i offered to 2 young girls i know who are desperately wanting to start babysitting, but don't have anyone to babysit except my kids lol, for $3/hr for approx 2.5 hrs a day 3 days a week to come....

I listed a bunch of different things they MIGHT be asked to help with, like watching babies while I make lunch, dishes, mopping, tidying toys, etc. But I figure out of the 2.5 hrs there is probably only about half an hour to an hour they will be actively doing something other than keeping an eye on the babies while I flip laundry loads or whatever.

but I asked my sisters what they thought of the email, and they said it's too much work and not enough money, and that i might not be allowed to ask them to do cleaning and stuff by law! lol. i don't know, i mean, i used to babysit 3 boys for 3/hr when i was 15. these girls are like 12 yrs old. and right now if i figure what i get paid per hour, they are making more than me!
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cheerfuldom 11:56 AM 07-26-2011
it sounds like you have a reasonable option for the girls. Its not like they are slaves or held hostage there. If their mom or them is uncomfortable with the arrangement, duties or pay, they can leave. Mopping a floor or doing a load of dishes is certainly within a 12 years olds capability (or it should be) so I don't know what your sisters are talking about.
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dEHmom 12:06 PM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
it sounds like you have a reasonable option for the girls. Its not like they are slaves or held hostage there. If their mom or them is uncomfortable with the arrangement, duties or pay, they can leave. Mopping a floor or doing a load of dishes is certainly within a 12 years olds capability (or it should be) so I don't know what your sisters are talking about.
my own sister had made a comment about that's what she used to make babysitting. but childcare rates haven't exactly changed over the years (that was 15 yrs + ago for her), and it's not like i'm leaving the house and expecting the girls to run the show. lol. It's basically just extra sets of eyes and hands so i can get stuff done. But i don't want to pay someone to sit here and do nothing either. I expect them to help out, make sure the kids aren't making messes, getting into trouble, or anything like that. And I am getting burned out lately because I cannot seem to keep on top of my families stuff and daycare stuff. I'm constantly falling behind in laundry (I cannot run the wash machine while one of my dcb's is sleeping cause it wakes him up) and I cannot go downstairs and put the load in the dryer while the dcb's are awake. While I am making lunch the dcb's are pulling toilet paper out, getting into all the bins (they figured out how to open them), pushing buttons, pulling apart plants, climbing on furniture, or screaming to be held. I just need an extra set of eyes and hands. I find by the time i'm done putting away toys, something else has to be done, so mopping and sweeping gets pushed to the side. I have resorted to sweeping and mopping with crap on the floor and just shove it all into a pile now. Because it is not as simple as just mopping or sweeping, there's always a mess to clean before cleaning.
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Preschool/daycare teacher 01:40 PM 07-26-2011
Thanks for your thoughts everyone! It does sound like a lot of work to get and keep someone who will actually work. I can't get over how hard it is for providers to find someone who will WORK, and the other basic stuff like being punctual. I get paid minimum wage, if daycare's closed I don't have work, nor get paid (the parents still pay, I just don't get any of it). I can get a week's vacation, but withOUT pay, etc etc (plus I'm the preschool teacher, also) But yet I still manage to get there on time, work HARD (I never have a chance to use the restroom or sit down, until nap time while we're patting backs. I pretty much have the same work as a partner would. I'm treated as a partner too, except for the rate of pay lol, and cut hours when owner is short on money). So I can't understand people when they arrive late, don't want to do the work, want to goof off, etc. I cannot imagine doing that, and I would just expect my assistants not to either. But apparently all assistants don't feel that way...It's discouraging when you think about it, isn't it? It'd make someone think twice before getting an assistant. Cheerfuldom, your reply is really good. Start out on my own when I open one and see how it goes and then decide later on down the road whether or not to have an assistant. I guess it's not exactly one decision and no changing it, is it I think I get ahead of myself sometimes...
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dEHmom 01:52 PM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by Preschool/daycare teacher:
Thanks for your thoughts everyone! It does sound like a lot of work to get and keep someone who will actually work. I can't get over how hard it is for providers to find someone who will WORK, and the other basic stuff like being punctual. I get paid minimum wage, if daycare's closed I don't have work, nor get paid (the parents still pay, I just don't get any of it). I can get a week's vacation, but withOUT pay, etc etc (plus I'm the preschool teacher, also) But yet I still manage to get there on time, work HARD (I never have a chance to use the restroom or sit down, until nap time while we're patting backs. I pretty much have the same work as a partner would. I'm treated as a partner too, except for the rate of pay lol, and cut hours when owner is short on money). So I can't understand people when they arrive late, don't want to do the work, want to goof off, etc. I cannot imagine doing that, and I would just expect my assistants not to either. But apparently all assistants don't feel that way...It's discouraging when you think about it, isn't it? It'd make someone think twice before getting an assistant. Cheerfuldom, your reply is really good. Start out on my own when I open one and see how it goes and then decide later on down the road whether or not to have an assistant. I guess it's not exactly one decision and no changing it, is it I think I get ahead of myself sometimes...
for the most part people need to look and live in the now, but you always should be one step ahead of the game, and looking down the road at an assistant is a good thing to have in mind now. figure out in your daily routines where you would need extra help and jot it down. things that you know you need to do but just cannot get to.
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cheerfuldom 02:12 PM 07-26-2011
unfortunately, a lot of people get into childcare thinking "how hard can it be?" and that is why the turnover rate is so high for most centers or even home providers. LOTS of work for very little pay and that doesn't jive when there isn't a reason you *have* to do it. Like for instance, a college girl could get the same amount of money or more folding t-shirts and chatting with coworkers working retail at the mall, ykwim? unless you have a passion for this or some other driving force that motivates you, you very likely are not going to make it in childcare. and when you don't want to be at a job, you stop caring about things like keeping the boss happy. a lot of people dont have the integrity to do whats right even when they really dont care for the job
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nannyde 02:27 PM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by Preschool/daycare teacher:
Thanks for your thoughts everyone! It does sound like a lot of work to get and keep someone who will actually work. I can't get over how hard it is for providers to find someone who will WORK, and the other basic stuff like being punctual. I get paid minimum wage, if daycare's closed I don't have work, nor get paid (the parents still pay, I just don't get any of it). I can get a week's vacation, but withOUT pay, etc etc (plus I'm the preschool teacher, also) But yet I still manage to get there on time, work HARD (I never have a chance to use the restroom or sit down, until nap time while we're patting backs. I pretty much have the same work as a partner would. I'm treated as a partner too, except for the rate of pay lol, and cut hours when owner is short on money). So I can't understand people when they arrive late, don't want to do the work, want to goof off, etc. I cannot imagine doing that, and I would just expect my assistants not to either. But apparently all assistants don't feel that way...It's discouraging when you think about it, isn't it? It'd make someone think twice before getting an assistant. Cheerfuldom, your reply is really good. Start out on my own when I open one and see how it goes and then decide later on down the road whether or not to have an assistant. I guess it's not exactly one decision and no changing it, is it I think I get ahead of myself sometimes...
I guarantee my staff assistant a minimum number of hours per week and she gets the same paid days off I get off. If we are low on kids she just does deep cleaning and organizing. It's harder when there are less kids.

It's becoming very hard to find good workers. Not only do you have the challenge of finding one who will work.. you have to find one that CAN work. The obesity epidemic and all the health issues that come along with it is hitting the child care world VERY hard. Sprinkle in the cell phone addiction and you have distracted workers who struggle both physically and emotionally doing the H-A-R-D work of caring for small children.

The turnover rate is so high now... it's going to get WAY worse in the next five years.
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PeanutsGalore 10:22 PM 07-26-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I guarantee my staff assistant a minimum number of hours per week and she gets the same paid days off I get off. If we are low on kids she just does deep cleaning and organizing. It's harder when there are less kids.

It's becoming very hard to find good workers. Not only do you have the challenge of finding one who will work.. you have to find one that CAN work. The obesity epidemic and all the health issues that come along with it is hitting the child care world VERY hard. Sprinkle in the cell phone addiction and you have distracted workers who struggle both physically and emotionally doing the H-A-R-D work of caring for small children.

The turnover rate is so high now... it's going to get WAY worse in the next five years.
Nannyde, seriously, what is up with the obesity epidemic thing? Are you interviewing 1000 pound people who are immobile or something? I can see how weight MIGHT impact ability to work a physical job, but it's really not an obesity thing. It's a lifestyle thing.

I'm a very big girl, and I'm really sad that I wasn't able to help out with the major yard projects we're in the midst of. Realistically, I have to watch the baby, and because he's not a lumpy infant anymore but a toddler getting into EVERYTHING, I couldn't be outside laying sod, or using the saw and building the fence the same way I was when we put in our tile and I both designed and cut it to spec on the tilesaw. And got down on my hands and knees to pound in the backerboard. Or mixed cement and slapped down the giant tiles, all while pregnant. But I have no problem taking care of my kid, and I've taken care of up to three infants at one time, by myself. I've fed multiple infants at the same time (one on my breast, one on the bottle), I constantly heft around two babies at the same time--nothing less than 45 lbs altogether. I run around after them all day long, and my own son knows no other speed than "RUNNNNNN!!!!!!" I'm on the floor with them. I kneel, I squat, I bend, I lift. I work, girl!

I wouldn't say I'm a person who loves to be active, because I really prefer to read a book rather than hike, but I'm strong, I have stamina, I'm a hard worker, healthy enough to engage in physical labor, and much healthier than a lot of slim people. We had to hire someone to help lay sod at the last minute, and I would have been able to get the job done in half the time he did, even though I'm a fatty mcfaticus and he wasn't. He was a doughy boy who complained about how he was a white collar worker doing this because he lost his job and was desperate for the money, like it made him better or something. Even when I was an office worker, I had a lot more stamina than my coworkers. And while I can't say this about all the obese people I've met in my lifetime, or even most of the obese people I've met in my lifetime, I can say it about a lot of them.

Why do you paint all groups of people with the same brush? Have you just not met a very diverse group of heavy people?

Again, sorry for derailing another thread, but you can really be offensive sometimes, Nannyde. And you have some really great experience that makes me want to learn from you, but then you harp on very specific issues in ways that just makes you sound like a bigot. I usually keep my mouth shut, but I couldn't this time, so I suppose it's time for me to sign off for the night! But I really hope there's a positive reason behind the things you say the way you say them.
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Country Kids 06:32 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
Nannyde, seriously, what is up with the obesity epidemic thing? Are you interviewing 1000 pound people who are immobile or something? I can see how weight MIGHT impact ability to work a physical job, but it's really not an obesity thing. It's a lifestyle thing.

I'm a very big girl, and I'm really sad that I wasn't able to help out with the major yard projects we're in the midst of. Realistically, I have to watch the baby, and because he's not a lumpy infant anymore but a toddler getting into EVERYTHING, I couldn't be outside laying sod, or using the saw and building the fence the same way I was when we put in our tile and I both designed and cut it to spec on the tilesaw. And got down on my hands and knees to pound in the backerboard. Or mixed cement and slapped down the giant tiles, all while pregnant. But I have no problem taking care of my kid, and I've taken care of up to three infants at one time, by myself. I've fed multiple infants at the same time (one on my breast, one on the bottle), I constantly heft around two babies at the same time--nothing less than 45 lbs altogether. I run around after them all day long, and my own son knows no other speed than "RUNNNNNN!!!!!!" I'm on the floor with them. I kneel, I squat, I bend, I lift. I work, girl!

I wouldn't say I'm a person who loves to be active, because I really prefer to read a book rather than hike, but I'm strong, I have stamina, I'm a hard worker, healthy enough to engage in physical labor, and much healthier than a lot of slim people. We had to hire someone to help lay sod at the last minute, and I would have been able to get the job done in half the time he did, even though I'm a fatty mcfaticus and he wasn't. He was a doughy boy who complained about how he was a white collar worker doing this because he lost his job and was desperate for the money, like it made him better or something. Even when I was an office worker, I had a lot more stamina than my coworkers. And while I can't say this about all the obese people I've met in my lifetime, or even most of the obese people I've met in my lifetime, I can say it about a lot of them.

Why do you paint all groups of people with the same brush? Have you just not met a very diverse group of heavy people?

Again, sorry for derailing another thread, but you can really be offensive sometimes, Nannyde. And you have some really great experience that makes me want to learn from you, but then you harp on very specific issues in ways that just makes you sound like a bigot. I usually keep my mouth shut, but I couldn't this time, so I suppose it's time for me to sign off for the night! But I really hope there's a positive reason behind the things you say the way you say them.

I just want to send you lots of and today! Sending out hugs but no icons for that. Have a great day and remember you are great at what you do.

I used to be super small when I was younger. Hated it because I could never find clothes to fit and everyone was always saying how I needed to eat more. Now I have gained quite a bit of weight and would like to lose some but guess what I can find clothes now that fit and I look good in! I actually do have the energy now to work and do things. I'm personally God didn't make us to all look alike, that is the beauty in our world!
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nannyde 06:36 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
Nannyde, seriously, what is up with the obesity epidemic thing? Are you interviewing 1000 pound people who are immobile or something? I can see how weight MIGHT impact ability to work a physical job, but it's really not an obesity thing. It's a lifestyle thing.

I'm a very big girl, and I'm really sad that I wasn't able to help out with the major yard projects we're in the midst of. Realistically, I have to watch the baby, and because he's not a lumpy infant anymore but a toddler getting into EVERYTHING, I couldn't be outside laying sod, or using the saw and building the fence the same way I was when we put in our tile and I both designed and cut it to spec on the tilesaw. And got down on my hands and knees to pound in the backerboard. Or mixed cement and slapped down the giant tiles, all while pregnant. But I have no problem taking care of my kid, and I've taken care of up to three infants at one time, by myself. I've fed multiple infants at the same time (one on my breast, one on the bottle), I constantly heft around two babies at the same time--nothing less than 45 lbs altogether. I run around after them all day long, and my own son knows no other speed than "RUNNNNNN!!!!!!" I'm on the floor with them. I kneel, I squat, I bend, I lift. I work, girl!

I wouldn't say I'm a person who loves to be active, because I really prefer to read a book rather than hike, but I'm strong, I have stamina, I'm a hard worker, healthy enough to engage in physical labor, and much healthier than a lot of slim people. We had to hire someone to help lay sod at the last minute, and I would have been able to get the job done in half the time he did, even though I'm a fatty mcfaticus and he wasn't. He was a doughy boy who complained about how he was a white collar worker doing this because he lost his job and was desperate for the money, like it made him better or something. Even when I was an office worker, I had a lot more stamina than my coworkers. And while I can't say this about all the obese people I've met in my lifetime, or even most of the obese people I've met in my lifetime, I can say it about a lot of them.

Why do you paint all groups of people with the same brush? Have you just not met a very diverse group of heavy people?

Again, sorry for derailing another thread, but you can really be offensive sometimes, Nannyde. And you have some really great experience that makes me want to learn from you, but then you harp on very specific issues in ways that just makes you sound like a bigot. I usually keep my mouth shut, but I couldn't this time, so I suppose it's time for me to sign off for the night! But I really hope there's a positive reason behind the things you say the way you say them.
It's a tough conversation to have. But it needs to be talked about in any discussions of hiring child care staff assistants. If it's off the table because it is offensive then I will gladly back out of any staff assistant discussions from here on out.

I can't discuss staff assistants without devoting a significant amount of my knowledge and experience in this within the discussion. There's no way to say it nicely or put words onto it that are exacting enough to not tweak peoples sensibilities. It's just impossible.
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PeanutsGalore 09:55 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's a tough conversation to have. But it needs to be talked about in any discussions of hiring child care staff assistants. If it's off the table because it is offensive then I will gladly back out of any staff assistant discussions from here on out.

I can't discuss staff assistants without devoting a significant amount of my knowledge and experience in this within the discussion. There's no way to say it nicely or put words onto it that are exacting enough to not tweak peoples sensibilities. It's just impossible.
It's NOT off the table for discussion unless you want it to be. We're all grownups; and if the words are true and come from a place of knowledge and experience and a desire to enlighten, then back it up; don't back off. HAVE the discussion. We need to learn to discuss things again in this country, I think.

You didn't really introduce a topic of discussion; you dropped an incendiary bomb by implicating that all fat people are out of shape and incapable of performing as a daycare assistant. One can easily replace the word "fat" with any other descriptor based on age, race, religion, gender....it's the WAY you said it, Nannyde, that goads people who can't get beyond words into wanting to shut down the discussion. If that's what you want, then fine, but then if you truly have a valid point to make based on years of valuable experience, nobody is going to hear it, especially the people who need to hear it.

If you do truly believe that all fat people are incapable of being daycare assistants, then that's your opinion, though I find it hard to believe that it's your true experience in the reality of life. If it is, that's kind of sad. Still, I'd love to hear some sort of backup/logic/experience/data/anecdote or simply a clarification of whether this is really what you're saying or not. And why you believe what you do, and what you think can be done to help.

That's a discussion.
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nannyde 10:00 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
It's NOT off the table for discussion unless you want it to be. We're all grownups; and if the words are true and come from a place of knowledge and experience and a desire to enlighten, then back it up; don't back off. HAVE the discussion. We need to learn to discuss things again in this country, I think.

You didn't really introduce a topic of discussion; you dropped an incendiary bomb by implicating that all fat people are out of shape and incapable of performing as a daycare assistant. One can easily replace the word "fat" with any other descriptor based on age, race, religion, gender....it's the WAY you said it, Nannyde, that goads people who can't get beyond words into wanting to shut down the discussion. If that's what you want, then fine, but then if you truly have a valid point to make based on years of valuable experience, nobody is going to hear it, especially the people who need to hear it.

If you do truly believe that all fat people are incapable of being daycare assistants, then that's your opinion, though I find it hard to believe that it's your true experience in the reality of life. If it is, that's kind of sad. Still, I'd love to hear some sort of backup/logic/experience/data/anecdote or simply a clarification of whether this is really what you're saying or not. And why you believe what you do, and what you think can be done to help.

That's a discussion.
This is a good place to start:

http://webcentral.uc.edu/eProf/media...iafile_571.pdf
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PeanutsGalore 10:01 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I just want to send you lots of and today! Sending out hugs but no icons for that. Have a great day and remember you are great at what you do.

I used to be super small when I was younger. Hated it because I could never find clothes to fit and everyone was always saying how I needed to eat more. Now I have gained quite a bit of weight and would like to lose some but guess what I can find clothes now that fit and I look good in! I actually do have the energy now to work and do things. I'm personally God didn't make us to all look alike, that is the beauty in our world!
Thank you, Country Kids! That was sweet. I love sunshine and hugs! It is hard to talk about body size, but I love diversity in all forms and I think we're all capable of doing whatever in the heck we want. We just have to decide to do it and do it the best way we can. And sometimes with body size, that means we have to have an honest discussion with ourselves and adjust our lifestyles to better meet our needs. I know that when I can't bend over to polish my toenails, I'm in trouble and had better start sweating more--and I do!!!
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PeanutsGalore 10:38 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is a good place to start:

http://webcentral.uc.edu/eProf/media...iafile_571.pdf
Yes, it is. The conclusion was also really interesting, and the suggested workplace interventions are pretty prevalent in the corporate world today and, I think, very helpful to the overall health of employees.

Now since we're mostly in-home daycare providers, do you have an opinion on how we can take the suggestions in the study and bring them to life in our environment?
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MarinaVanessa 11:03 AM 07-27-2011
I'm sooo confused . I'm still trying to figure out what about Nan's comment you find so offensive Peanut? I know you find something offensive and asked Nan "Why do you paint all groups of people with the same brush?" but I'm having trouble following you. Could you clarify please?
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actaktmdt 11:24 AM 07-27-2011
How do you determine acceptable pay to the assistant? I'm looking at expanding and the person who I would be hiring has run and is currently tuning her own in home dc and isn't full. I know what she charges so i could easily add up what she would make if she was full.
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nannyde 11:39 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
Yes, it is. The conclusion was also really interesting, and the suggested workplace interventions are pretty prevalent in the corporate world today and, I think, very helpful to the overall health of employees.

Now since we're mostly in-home daycare providers, do you have an opinion on how we can take the suggestions in the study and bring them to life in our environment?
No

I'm specifically interested in the hiring of a staff assistant as that has been where most of the questions that have come my way.

A home child care hiring a single staff assistant can't withstand the economic loss associated with "workplace interventions" that a corporation would. They can't sustain the absentisim and presenteeism ESPECIALLY if the numbers of the children (compliance with regulations) and young age of the children are dependent upon the staff assistant being present and their ability to do bending, stretching, squatting, pushing, lifting, balance and co-ordination (must have when carrying small children) or difficulty in moving which is necessary to perform essential job functions and the employees difficulty in completing work in the expected amount of time.


(The dollar value cost of presenteeism
among moderately or extremely
obese workers was $506 per worker
each year compared with $433 per
worker for health-related absenteeism
above that of the other workers.
Thus, health-related limitation on the
job may be even more economically
significant than health-related time
off the job.
Furthermore, absences do
not necessarily cost the employer the
full value of the worker’s time to the
extent that these are unpaid absences
and that other workers are able to
cover the missing shifts. Meanwhile,
presenteeism is always a cost to
employers because the worker is receiving
a full paycheck
_
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nannyde 12:19 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by actaktmdt:
How do you determine acceptable pay to the assistant? I'm looking at expanding and the person who I would be hiring has run and is currently tuning her own in home dc and isn't full. I know what she charges so i could easily add up what she would make if she was full.
Start with what the centers in your area pay entry level staff and take it from there. If she brings a kid... that's another story.
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PeanutsGalore 12:50 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm sooo confused . I'm still trying to figure out what about Nan's comment you find so offensive Peanut? I know you find something offensive and asked Nan "Why do you paint all groups of people with the same brush?" but I'm having trouble following you. Could you clarify please?
I actually followed the links Nan posted and read what Nan wrote. Her first response in this thread was a quick response to a question directed specifically at her--see below.

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I am working on a blog about staff assistants. I will try to get that up in the next few days. It's going to be at least two parts. Maybe three


In the meantime maybe you can look up some of my old posts:


https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese
If you follow the link and read the post, she blatantly says that a person who is 80 lbs overweight can NOT do this job, which is utterly untrue. She also admits to discriminating by not hiring people who were overweight because she made an assumption that the job would be hard for them. It sounds like she hired someone who was heavy anyway, and though the job was hard at first, it worked out. And instead of using this as an example to maybe give people a chance (or at least not discriminate!), she says it confirmed her opinion that the obese can't do this work.

Nan's post is a long one, but I'm leaving it intact so you can read it in full if you want. I put the specific words I'm referring to in bold and italics so you can easily pick them out.

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I don't know for sure. I have spoken to another Center owner besides my friend who operates in a fairly affluent neighborhood and she is coming across the same issue.

I think our society is getting heavier. It's acceptable for our youth to be overweight. I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.

I did three rounds of interviewing over a period of maybe six months or so and the last one I put in my ads that we would not accept anyone who had the health issue of obesity because the job here is very physcially demanding etc. I tried to be as nice about it as I could. I know it's a slippery slope but I was really getting tired of interviewing girls that COULD NOT do this job. It was a huge waste of my time.

The ones who worked at Centers before my interview would bring their physical forms to me at the interview and I saw so many health issues like asthma, high blood pressure, and back problems. I don't know how they got the jobs in the Centers in the first place but if that's all that came thru the door when you needed staff.. what are you going to do?

I got to the point where I just asked height and weight. It was exhausting dealing with it. Still out of the twelve I did interview who told me their height and weight... I found that they markedly underestimated the truth. I was willing to consider girls 40-50 poiunds overweight but I could NOT have someone here that was 80-90-100 pounds overweight.

The person I hired was on the line of what I thought would work but after a year of working for me she lost about 25 pounds so she is doing really well. The job was EXTREMELY difficult for her in the begining. She was a perfect example of why I was certain that the weight would be an issue here. She had a really really hard time PHYSCIALLY doing the work and doing it in the time I needed it to be done.

I felt I didn't have the option to wait it out until I found someone who was physically fit enough for the job. I just wasn't getting a single response from someone who wasn't dealing with obesity.

I'm no slim jim myself. I have about 30 extra pounds on me. I know how physically taxing this is carrying around 30 extra pounds. It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80.

It's a hard subject to talk about because people get offended and there are anti discrimination laws. I didn't want to discriminate at all... I just really needed someone who could do this job. I can't afford to do the intensive costly training I do here and have someone quit because they can't keep up or have the health issues that come along with morbid obesity. When you have a small window of client base and funds for the position you have to have the RIGHT person. You can't have someone who has health complications and being 80 plus pounds overweight IS a health complication.
And then back to this thread, she mentions obesity again as a major issue in hiring daycare assistants.

Originally Posted by nannyde:
I guarantee my staff assistant a minimum number of hours per week and she gets the same paid days off I get off. If we are low on kids she just does deep cleaning and organizing. It's harder when there are less kids.

It's becoming very hard to find good workers. Not only do you have the challenge of finding one who will work.. you have to find one that CAN work. The obesity epidemic and all the health issues that come along with it is hitting the child care world VERY hard. Sprinkle in the cell phone addiction and you have distracted workers who struggle both physically and emotionally doing the H-A-R-D work of caring for small children.

The turnover rate is so high now... it's going to get WAY worse in the next five years.
Nan is held in what seems to be high esteem in this community as someone who has lots of experience and a well of knowledge. People are asking for guidance from her--specifically. She blatantly admits discrimination and makes very bold, very specific statements that are absolutely not true, and one only needs to look at the world around them to know that they're untrue.

A group of people who look exactly the same way will not perform to the same level of of ability or disability, which is why we have anti-discrimination laws to stop employers from automatically dismissing people based on what they look like.

I understand that Nan feels backed into a corner because finding good help is hard, but there has to be a better solution than discrimination. If you have to give people a test, then give them a test (I've been tested for many jobs in my past). But at least give them a chance.
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Lucy 01:04 PM 07-27-2011
"...I put in my ads that we would not accept anyone who had the health issue of obesity..."

"...It was a huge waste of my time..."

"...bring their physical forms to me at the interview..."

"...I saw so many health issues I don't know how they got the jobs in the Centers in the first place..."

"...if that's all that came thru the door..."

"...I got to the point where I just asked height and weight..."

"...I could NOT have someone here that was 80-90-100 pounds overweight..."

"...It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80..."

______________________________________________________________________________________


Mmmm Kay. Wow.
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Country Kids 01:46 PM 07-27-2011
Is this the general census of those that have assistants? All I can say is "Wow"! This speaks volumes in the area of why there are anti-discrimination laws.
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Country Kids 02:04 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I have had a number of teens and it worked out really well. They stayed an average of three years each.

Had them come in three hour blocks from three p.m. to six and two three hour blocks in the summer and on breaks.

My first one in 93 was three bucks an hour. with a dollar an hour raise every year. Every year under their belt they become more and more valuable to you so give them raises every year. I also give anniversary bonus, 18 paid days per year, and a christmas bonus of two weeks salary. With my staff assistant that was with me for 7.5 years total she received a 500 dollar bonus when she hit the fifth year. I helped her buy her first car. ;-) I also took her to Europe and Prince Edward Island with me when she was a kid. I paid her and she got a couple of cool trips....

I can't advise you on pay because I don't know what your state requires law wise for kids under the age of 18.

I always went for the oldest child in the family and preference to ones who had much younger siblings (ten year age difference or more). If they are a family that requires their kid to do chores and have responsibility then the kid is happy to do that at your house for money instead of for free.

I wanted a kid that did not do extracurricular activities, was at least a B student (no worky here if you don't get good grades), lived within walking distance to my house, and was NOT responsible for the care of their younger sibs after school.

I had them do all cleaning, laundry folding, chop veggies and fruit, and watch the kids play toys. I did not have them play with the kids or do any educational activities with the kids. Their jobs with the kids was JUST to supervise play and meals and change diapers. NO book reading, arts and crafts, educational.... nothing like that.

When they got old enough to drive then I had them run errands for me. I pay double the tax rate for mileage. So if it's .50 a mile I give 1.00 a mile plus time to shop and run errands.

I had a wonderful relationship with the teens. I became the second Mama. My second and fourth staff assistant brought their kids to me for a few years... that was a blessing like no other.

Bottom line with teenagers is to teach them.... you take care of me and I will TAKE CARE of you. Work HARD and do as I say. If you do... this will be an amazing job for you and I will help you get your next job... and the next. I can teach you a trade that you can carry with you into adulthood to either make a living or to raise your own.

WORD OF CAUTION: do not allow ANY cell phone usage. Get that straight from second one. No "distracted" teens in my house.


Nan, I'm totally lost on your time line I guess with your assistants. Here you say you had a number of teens work with you and they averaged 3 years each. Then another assistant stayed 7.5 years (which would be wonderful to know and have someone that reliable). What I'm lost on then is why would you have to go to such extremes interviewing people if you don't have a high turnover in staff. It doesn't sound like you have had to actually have new people come in that much in your 18 years of childcare. I would say what maybe 3 times? I could be just reading the different posts wrong and getting them mixed up.
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nannyde 02:14 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Nan, I'm totally lost on your time line I guess with your assistants. Here you say you had a number of teens work with you and they averaged 3 years each. Then another assistant stayed 7.5 years (which would be wonderful to know and have someone that reliable). What I'm lost on then is why would you have to go to such extremes interviewing people if you don't have a high turnover in staff. It doesn't sound like you have had to actually have new people come in that much in your 18 years of childcare. I would say what maybe 3 times? I could be just reading the different posts wrong and getting them mixed up.
I've had about seven... if I remember correctly. I've had two for my son and cleaning. I've had times when I had more than one teen. I did 24/7 care when I first started.
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wdmmom 02:23 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by PeanutsGalore:
I actually followed the links Nan posted and read what Nan wrote. Her first response in this thread was a quick response to a question directed specifically at her--see below.



If you follow the link and read the post, she blatantly says that a person who is 80 lbs overweight can NOT do this job, which is utterly untrue. She also admits to discriminating by not hiring people who were overweight because she made an assumption that the job would be hard for them. It sounds like she hired someone who was heavy anyway, and though the job was hard at first, it worked out. And instead of using this as an example to maybe give people a chance (or at least not discriminate!), she says it confirmed her opinion that the obese can't do this work.

Nan's post is a long one, but I'm leaving it intact so you can read it in full if you want. I put the specific words I'm referring to in bold and italics so you can easily pick them out.



And then back to this thread, she mentions obesity again as a major issue in hiring daycare assistants.



Nan is held in what seems to be high esteem in this community as someone who has lots of experience and a well of knowledge. People are asking for guidance from her--specifically. She blatantly admits discrimination and makes very bold, very specific statements that are absolutely not true, and one only needs to look at the world around them to know that they're untrue.

A group of people who look exactly the same way will not perform to the same level of of ability or disability, which is why we have anti-discrimination laws to stop employers from automatically dismissing people based on what they look like.

I understand that Nan feels backed into a corner because finding good help is hard, but there has to be a better solution than discrimination. If you have to give people a test, then give them a test (I've been tested for many jobs in my past). But at least give them a chance.
My question to you Peanut is this: Have you ever had a staff assistant? Have you ever advertised for one? Have you ever done the interviewing necessary?

I have had several staff assistants and Nan isn't trying to discriminate based on obesity. She's simply stating that overweight individuals can not perform the job requirements as efficiently as another person.

Take this for example:

You have a staff assistant that you pay $8.00 an hour for. Just to do diaper changes on 8 children, it takes you a total of 16 minutes. That's 2 minutes per child to get the child/lay them down/undress/change/dress and back to play. Say your assistant is 275 lbs. It takes her a total of 40 minutes to change diapers and you change all the kids 5 times a day! Would you rather pay $10.66 per day to change diapers or pay $26.66? That's a difference of 2 hours per day! 2 hours per day times 5 times a week times 52 weeks in a year is equivalent to an additional $4160 a year!!!!

All people come is all different shapes and sizes and everyone does things differently. However, working for Nan, she has a very structured system & there is a particular way she wants things done. It's proven effective for her for this long so why fight it.

We are all entitled to hire who we want but if you think obesity and childcare aren't hand in hand, you are mistaken. There is a center right across the street and those women are very large! There is no crime against being obese but it does limit abilities.

Would you rather hire someone that can see their feet while carrying an infant down the stairs or someone that can't even make it up or down the stairs without being out of breath?!
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cheerfuldom 03:13 PM 07-27-2011
Don't forget ladies....Nan never said that overweight people cannot do childcare period, only that in her experience an overweight person cannot do the duties that she personally needs HER staff assistant to handle. My assistant is overweight (sorry if thats too blunt) but I only have 6 kids max here. If I was running a larger program, she may not have the stamina and capabilities to keep up with kids as well. Thats just the honest truth. When a job requires physical health and stamina, a person who is not fit and healthy has a harder time doing it, that doesn't make it impossible, just harder. Why is that offensive? Plus if you are paying someone out of your own hard earned profit, why wouldn't you look for the person with the best capability (including most fit and energetic) ? I have 30lbs to lose and I notice a big difference when I am exercising regularly and able to keep up with active children better.
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Unregistered 03:41 PM 07-27-2011
Nannyde said: I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.

Nice! Did anybody else notice her assessment of US?! I'm sure someone else on here will be sure to jump in and explain how it's ok for her to say things like this because she's so experienced and all.
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nannyde 04:28 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Nannyde said: I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.

Nice! Did anybody else notice her assessment of US?! I'm sure someone else on here will be sure to jump in and explain how it's ok for her to say things like this because she's so experienced and all.

http://www.naccrra.org/randd/child-c..._workforce.php
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MarinaVanessa 04:46 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Nannyde said: I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.

Nice! Did anybody else notice her assessment of US?! I'm sure someone else on here will be sure to jump in and explain how it's ok for her to say things like this because she's so experienced and all.
I don't see this as an assessment of all of us. She says it draws lower skilled, lower paid workers which is true which is why there are many states that offer free or low-cost training in the child development field for child care providers. There are a lot of people that figure "Oh it'll be easy, what the hell. I'll give it a try" and simply turn the boob tube on and let the children run around like helions (from my personal experience of trying to find child care). She doesn't say all providers are like this. She only says that it draws them.
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cheerfuldom 04:54 PM 07-27-2011
ummm....what she said is true. The standards at most of my local centers are extremely low. I don't know that you even have to have a high school diploma. I think they require two on going training classes a year but its a few hours, plus CPR training (again not a huge commitment). They are also paid very low. My friends was making $8 an hour with a room of 20+ three year olds. She was supposed to have an assistant but they couldn't keep many assistants for long (because of the pay, no surprise there). I see the same daycare centers advertising constantly in our local newspaper and on CL and there are quite a few in town (like 40, not including home daycares and preschool only centers). It is a well documented fact that those with less education and lower economic situation have more issues with weight. Thats not just on daycare workers, thats the whole country.
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Crystal 05:47 PM 07-27-2011
I understand Nanny's point about obesity hindering the provider's ability to effectively work with children. I don't neccessarily agree that it affects ALL obese workers, but it does happen. I conducted a FCCERS assessment on a program where the provider was morbidly obese. Her work with the children was so limited that she used a desk chair on wheels to get around the entire three hours I was there. So, yes it can and does have an impact on working with children.

Now, before I get blasted, know that when I married my husband he was over 300 pounds......I was 5"2" and 100 pounds.....his weight did not matter to me, his loving, caring and loyal nature is what I was attracted to and cared about. He is no longer obese, as he realized how it was effecting his relationships with his children and his ability to play with them, as well as the health implications that would have resulted in a premature death.

Just know that I don't discriminate based on size, but I happen to agree that obesity CAN effect our work with children.
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PeanutsGalore 08:30 PM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
Don't forget ladies....Nan never said that overweight people cannot do childcare period...
Yes, Cheerfuldom, she did. Her exact words were: "It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80."

Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
... My assistant is overweight (sorry if thats too blunt) but I only have 6 kids max here. If I was running a larger program, she may not have the stamina and capabilities to keep up with kids as well. Thats just the honest truth. When a job requires physical health and stamina, a person who is not fit and healthy has a harder time doing it, that doesn't make it impossible, just harder. Why is that offensive?
It's not offensive. You didn't say the same thing Nan did. You're just pointing out a fact without making it a blanket statement that makes it true for all fat people. Nan went beyond that by describing how she discriminates, which is what I take issue with.

Listen, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the truth. There's nothing wrong with noting that someone who is overweight may be out of shape. There is no question that the size of your body affects what you can do and how you can do it. I'm not even arguing that. The question isn't one of obesity though; it's body size and type, in conjunction with overall health. Slim people can be unfit and out of breath after walking a flight of stairs, someone who is really short may have issues getting a baby in and out of a crib safely--especially with the new laws getting rid of drop sides, a super tall person may lift a baby too high and hit it's head on the ceiling or god forbid, bump it into a ceiling fan, and yes, the overweight may have trouble seeing their own feet. But so may a woman who is really well-endowed, but otherwise slim. In fact, none of the health issues or concerns that have been outlined in this post are specific to obesity or being overweight, not even the fact that someone has to wheel around in order to be mobile. An extremely obese person may have to have wheels in order to be mobile, but so does someone who has no legs. We can't discriminate against either of them. What we do have the right to do is test their individual ability to do the job that we're offering, and if they can't do it in the way we need them to do it, they shouldn't be hired, because it's an important job. But they shouldn't be discriminated against.

Originally Posted by wdmmom:
My question to you Peanut is this: Have you ever had a staff assistant? Have you ever advertised for one? Have you ever done the interviewing necessary?
I have been interviewing, both for an assistant and for a babysitter for my own child. Which is why I jumped into this thread, to see if anyone had any suggestions, because I can't even seem to find people to show up for the daggone interviews, and nobody has completed the process. And none of them were overweight.

Originally Posted by wdmmom:
I have had several staff assistants and Nan isn't trying to discriminate based on obesity. She's simply stating that overweight individuals can not perform the job requirements as efficiently as another person.

Take this for example:

You have a staff assistant that you pay $8.00 an hour for. Just to do diaper changes on 8 children, it takes you a total of 16 minutes. That's 2 minutes per child to get the child/lay them down/undress/change/dress and back to play. Say your assistant is 275 lbs. It takes her a total of 40 minutes to change diapers and you change all the kids 5 times a day! Would you rather pay $10.66 per day to change diapers or pay $26.66? That's a difference of 2 hours per day! 2 hours per day times 5 times a week times 52 weeks in a year is equivalent to an additional $4160 a year!!!!
But this is the point...what does this have to do with weight? What, do her arms weigh 3000 lbs apiece and make it difficult for her to change a diaper? Maybe she's just slow! You've never seen a skinny person move slow?

Originally Posted by wdmmom:
All people come is all different shapes and sizes and everyone does things differently. However, working for Nan, she has a very structured system & there is a particular way she wants things done. It's proven effective for her for this long so why fight it.

We are all entitled to hire who we want but if you think obesity and childcare aren't hand in hand, you are mistaken. There is a center right across the street and those women are very large! There is no crime against being obese but it does limit abilities.

Would you rather hire someone that can see their feet while carrying an infant down the stairs or someone that can't even make it up or down the stairs without being out of breath?!
I never said that. I never said that obesity never impacts ability to care for a child. It can. But it doesn't always in every case. It's not that obesity DOES limit abilities, it's that it CAN. There's a difference.

I don't particularly care if someone can see their feet. I haven't seen my own feet since I developed breasts, and that has nothing to do with weight. You know what? I figured out how to walk up and down the stairs without tripping over my own feet a long time ago. I also manage to get up and down the stairs with multiple babies in hand with no problem. Not something I would choose to do, because who wants to run up and down the stairs with babies all day long, but if there were an emergency, I could scoop up 3 babies at once and get them to safety quickly, because I've thought about how to do it, have a plan, and practice it! And so should anyone of any size.

Originally Posted by Crystal:
I understand Nanny's point about obesity hindering the provider's ability to effectively work with children. I don't neccessarily agree that it affects ALL obese workers, but it does happen. ...Just know that I don't discriminate based on size, but I happen to agree that obesity CAN effect our work with children.
Thank you for stating the point in a reasonable way! Why would anyone blast you?
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nannyde 04:52 AM 07-28-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I conducted a FCCERS assessment on a program where the provider was morbidly obese. Her work with the children was so limited that she used a desk chair on wheels to get around the entire three hours I was there. So, yes it can and does have an impact on working with children.
Crystal

How would she be able to evacuate the kids in an emergency and then be able to attend to them right after the emergency until help arrived?
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actaktmdt 05:29 AM 07-28-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Start with what the centers in your area pay entry level staff and take it from there. If she brings a kid... that's another story.
If she brings a child it would be one that would transfer from her home dc to mine. She her self is single, never married no kids of her own. She's done her own daycare for 15 years. She owns a small house and asked licenseing to make her # small which is why I think she's having a difficult time geting full. She's wonderful with kids and my daughter went to her when I was working out of my home.
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nannyde 05:52 AM 07-28-2011
Originally Posted by actaktmdt:
If she brings a child it would be one that would transfer from her home dc to mine. She her self is single, never married no kids of her own. She's done her own daycare for 15 years. She owns a small house and asked licenseing to make her # small which is why I think she's having a difficult time geting full. She's wonderful with kids and my daughter went to her when I was working out of my home.
Would she continue to get the money for the kid she brings or would that go to you?

Where I live a home provider who can only have a few kids can make more money than they could make working for me.

It's risky to have her bring in a kid and have that kid be under your policies and your decision making. What happens when you disagree with what should be done with the child.

In my world that would happen within the first couple of hours of working with someone who had experience with a kid and a former relationship with the parents. My staff assistants duties do not include ANY kind of parent contact. The most contact she has beyond meeting them in interviews is when she sees them at the door when she brings kids to me.

I don't take children that are referred by my staff assistant or related to her in any way. Nothing personal... just want everyone to be on an equal footing when decisions must be made. I also really want to protect the confidentiality of everyone here. So for me... it's best to keep the relationships separate.

"I" couldn't manage that but that's not to say you can't.

Have you asked her what salary she wants and what hours she wants? I would NOT consider the income she brings with the child because she can't guarantee that income tomorrow.

Also consider that being wonderful with children may not actually translate to working well with you. I've seen MANY friends go into business with each other and have it fall apart with a lot of bad feelings. You also should really really consider WHY she is so experienced and so awesome with kids and why she can't make it right now. Even with a small set up she has been successful for 15 years. What changed?

Not to be gloom and doom... I've also heard of partnerships working out. I think we have a few on this board where providers are working with other providers and it's working out. Crystal is and I think Country, Meeks and Shug
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wdmmom 06:05 AM 07-28-2011
[quote=PeanutsGalore;131802]

But this is the point...what does this have to do with weight? What, do her arms weigh 3000 lbs apiece and make it difficult for her to change a diaper? Maybe she's just slow! You've never seen a skinny person move slow? QUOTE]

Ever heard the quote, "TIME IS MONEY?!" When you see a percentage of your income being paid out, you want your moneys worth. I don't want to see my assistant playing toys with the kids, I want to see her earning her money. I want to see her cleaning, sanitizing and folding laundry when the kids are doing activities. You and I don't get to sit on our rears all day...why should we pay someone else to be able to do that?!


QUOTE=PeanutsGalore;101802][I also manage to get up and down the stairs with multiple babies in hand with no problem. QUOTE]

My staff assistant is allowed to take 1 child down the stairs at a time. She must have the child securely held with 1 arm while the other remains on the handrail. Now if she's 100 lbs overweight, it's going to take her 4 times as long (if not longer) to get up and down the stairs, to get all the kids, and to get them tucked in. Then you throw in the liability factor of someone that's overweight with breathing problems. No thanks. I don't want to see my staff assistant passing out because she can't run the stairs 5 or 6 times. Then to have a kid in tow at the same time, the liability heightens.

Staff assistants that have formerly worked at centers have the misconception that their job entails watching kids play toys. That may very well be at some in-homes as well. I want to see my assistant be able to get up and down off the floor to change diapers easily. I want to see her able to squat down to wipe the walls or get up and down the stairs without looking like she is going to pass out. I want to see my assistant helping me with all of the other hard work that keeps the business running effectively. All of the cleaning that is necessary, the laundering, the loading and unloading of the dishwasher, etc. None of these things are unnecessary requests...and again...they are requests.

Obesity as with any medical condition, you have to select your assistant based on experience (if any) and the liability factor. Is she a clutz, does she have uncontrollable seizures, does she have narcolepsy, etc. I wouldn't want to place my child in a situation where a person with a medical condition like these that could potentially affect my child.

Another perspective you could look at is this:

You pay a staff assistant to come in 3 hours a day. She comes in and changes diapers = 40 minutes. She runs the vacuum= 30 minutes. She cleans the kids up from lunch = 40 minutes. She changes diapers again = 40. She takes them to bed = 30 minutes.

There's 3 hours killed...just like that! And what did she do exactly?! You are paying her $25 a day and she's not doing anything that you can't physically do and in a lot less time!!!


It's not advantageous to pay someone if you aren't getting what you expect. It's no different than any employer. If your job performance isn't what they expect it to be, you're repremanded or fired.
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cheerfuldom 06:24 AM 07-28-2011
Peanuts, I am not going to quote your whole message but I believe the "IT" in the quote regarding mine and nan's comments is again referring to her staff assistant job, not childcare in general. Just because her particular staff assistant job requires a very physically capable person doesn't mean that every childcare job does. But I think we can all agree that being healthy and fit (not necessarily skinny) is the best scenario for any job, including taking care of children in any capacity. I think you have taken the comments way too personally and I am not seeing that intention in any of the posts made by anybody but thats just me.
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