daycare 01:28 PM 04-08-2014
I have a dck that is somewhat new to our group. Has been here a few months. The kid is sweet, yet annoying at times because the child has to update everyone every 5 minutes about how he feels. I already addressed this to the DCM but she even seemed not to understand why this was annoying.
I have posted about this kid before. I always talk with the DCM about the issues here, what we are doing to help kid and what do you do at home?
Well the issue is the DCM and I don't know what else to say or how to say anything to her to get her to STOP what she is doing.
yesterday we were out playing tag. All of a sudden this dck starts crying his eyes out. No one is near him and I stop everything and ask what's wrong, he says a bee bit him, ok where, DCK says I don't know. I look I see nothing. I asked did someone hit you or hurt you, DCK says no. So I am baffled.
DCM comes to pick up and as soon as she arrives DCK goes into hysterics again crying. Makes up a huge lie saying that there were bugs all over him. DCM looks at me and I said no, no bugs, I don't know whats wrong, he didn't know. DCM then totally plays into it. says OMG that must have been so scary to have all of those bugs on you, hugs him, as he cries even harder. She just keeps going on and on with it.
I walked away. She took 15 min to pick up because she too was upset that he felt scared. LADY THERE WERE NO BUGS...............
I don't know what else to say to this woman, this is the strangest most weird thing I have ever dealt with. The way she is working with him is making him a very unlikable child among his peers. Every week something like this happens, sometimes daily. I need it to stop. It's driving everyone nuts.
what would you do or say to a parent that was doing this. Maybe I don't explain well this issue, but to me this is just bizarre.
I'd call her out on encouraging his dishonesty. An imagination is good but that's not what I would call what he is doing. It seems like manipulation to me. I'd explain that when he behaves that way and had no honest reason to be upset, he will be removed from the group activity so that everyone else can enjoy play time without his disturbance. Follow through and update mom often.
I had a girl who behaved that same way and then bam one day she started blaming other children for hurting her and would start yelling that so and so hurt her when she was standing alone. I knew it was only a matter of time before she started blaming me. Bye bye.
She may not like it and end up terming but that doesn't sound so terrible inn this situation
daycare 03:34 PM 04-08-2014
thanks for responding. I don't know what to do with this family. Like I said every day it is something.
I tried to explain to the DCM as an adult would view it. I told her, how would you feel if I updated you on how I felt about you every 5 minutes. like " you're making me mad, I don't like you, my feelings are hurt, hey I want that and you are not giving it to me so I am ____________and and you are going to make me cry.
you would tell me to take a hike right? She said yeah of course I would, so I told her that this is what her child was doing and that it was annoying all of the other kids. This is why no one will play with him and I sit all day trying to help this kid fit in with the rest of the kids. I did ask DCM to not play into it and just say ok and move on, but she always feels the need to validate and over validate DCKS feelings
I know I can't control what goes on at home, but I feel I have to try what I can to help him here. Maybe telling DCM is a waste of my time and efforts?
KiddieCahoots 03:57 PM 04-08-2014
How about role playing with puppets?
Playing out his method vs. the correct or desirable method.
First trying with the child in child care, to see if he gets it. If he does, then maybe talk to the parents about what you've been using in the child care that seems to help his understanding of events, and show them.
Maybe then they'll be able to see just how absurd they look.
Evansmom 04:00 PM 04-08-2014
Parents have to trust the provider to tell them the truth. Little kids have a very different perception of things. They have wonderful imaginations and it's hard for them to tell the difference between a lie and a story/make believe until they are a little older. If mom doesn't trust you to tell the truth and to take good care of her child then I'd term. It's only a mater of time before DCK could make up some story that ends up getting you in trouble.
daycare 04:15 PM 04-08-2014
Originally Posted by Evansmom:
Parents have to trust the provider to tell them the truth. Little kids have a very different perception of things. They have wonderful imaginations and it's hard for them to tell the difference between a lie and a story/make believe until they are a little older. If mom doesn't trust you to tell the truth and to take good care of her child then I'd term. It's only a mater of time before DCK could make up some story that ends up getting you in trouble.
its not just the made up story that bothers me it's the moms need to over validate every emotion the child has.
yesterday morning at drop off the kid comes in and noticed that I moved a book case. DCK says I am very angry at Miss N. DCM asks why, so he says because I didn't want her to move the bookcase and now I am angry, very angry. The DCK stomps feet, crosses his arms. DCM totally plays into it, oh sweetie I can see that you are so angry becuase Miss N. moved that, are you ok, blah blah blah, kid starts crying, dcm continues to feed into it until I jump in and say ok DCM we will see you later, he needs to come pick out his toy so he can play. DCM leaves, for 15 more min DCK sits on the floor with arms crossed saying over and over how angry he is. I completely ignore it, but families are coming in for drop off and DCK has to make sure he tells every parent and child how angry he is.
I eventually moved him to the back room where he could not get anymore attention for it, but this is becoming a daily thing, yesterday it was about 4 times something like this happended.
Ignoring him when he does it does not work. I have also tried, I am sorry to hear you are upset, go play or go read a book. It will work for about 2 min and then somehow he strikes up so way to me sad, mad, angry, frustrated, some negative feeling and NEEDS to inform everyone.
AmyLeigh 05:40 PM 04-08-2014
Meeko 06:29 PM 04-08-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
its not just the made up story that bothers me it's the moms need to over validate every emotion the child has.
yesterday morning at drop off the kid comes in and noticed that I moved a book case. DCK says I am very angry at Miss N. DCM asks why, so he says because I didn't want her to move the bookcase and now I am angry, very angry. The DCK stomps feet, crosses his arms. DCM totally plays into it, oh sweetie I can see that you are so angry becuase Miss N. moved that, are you ok, blah blah blah, kid starts crying, dcm continues to feed into it until I jump in and say ok DCM we will see you later, he needs to come pick out his toy so he can play. DCM leaves, for 15 more min DCK sits on the floor with arms crossed saying over and over how angry he is. I completely ignore it, but families are coming in for drop off and DCK has to make sure he tells every parent and child how angry he is.
I eventually moved him to the back room where he could not get anymore attention for it, but this is becoming a daily thing, yesterday it was about 4 times something like this happended.
Ignoring him when he does it does not work. I have also tried, I am sorry to hear you are upset, go play or go read a book. It will work for about 2 min and then somehow he strikes up so way to me sad, mad, angry, frustrated, some negative feeling and NEEDS to inform everyone.
Don't flame me....it's been a long day.....and I have such a desire to slap your DCM........just sayin'.......
NeedaVaca 06:44 PM 04-08-2014
Originally Posted by Meeko:
Don't flame me....it's been a long day.....and I have such a desire to slap your DCM........just sayin'.......
There are just so many things wrong with what this mom is doing...
Really DS? That's great that you are using your words, now use them to apologize to Ms. Daycare for being rude. This is her house and her bookcase, she can move it anywhere she wants to.
taylorw1210 06:47 PM 04-08-2014
How annoying! I definitely would have a hard time dealing with this DCM. How does she think she's benefiting her child with this behavior?
taylorw1210 06:48 PM 04-08-2014
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
There are just so many things wrong with what this mom is doing...
Really DS? That's great that you are using your words, now use them to apologize to Ms. Daycare for being rude. This is her house and her bookcase, she can move it anywhere she wants to.
Exactly! Who lets their child have so much control that they validate their child's anger over another person moving furniture in their OWN home?
I'd give her a term letter because she obviously is not getting it.
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
There are just so many things wrong with what this mom is doing...
Really DS? That's great that you are using your words, now use them to apologize to Ms. Daycare for being rude. This is her house and her bookcase, she can move it anywhere she wants to.
Amen. I likely would have said," Johnny, when YOU have a daycare you can move your furniture wherever you want as well." And walked away. Irritating.
Laurel 05:21 AM 04-09-2014
I need to think about this one for a while. That is bizarre.
It sounds like you made it perfectly clear to the mom how you feel about this.
Maybe just handle your end at your house. When he starts I might say "Joey, I don't like it when you say there were bugs all over you and there aren't any." When he continues about how scary they are or whatever I'd probably say "If you are scared that is okay but you will need to sit in this chair (or do whatever you do to separate a child) until you are not scared anymore (or angry or whatever).
Gotta think about the mom part.
Laurel
debbiedoeszip 05:38 AM 04-09-2014
<<<DCM comes to pick up and as soon as she arrives DCK goes into hysterics again crying. Makes up a huge lie saying that there were bugs all over him. DCM looks at me and I said no, no bugs, I don't know whats wrong, he didn't know. DCM then totally plays into it. says OMG that must have been so scary to have all of those bugs on you, hugs him, as he cries even harder. She just keeps going on and on with it.
I walked away. She took 15 min to pick up because she too was upset that he felt scared. LADY THERE WERE NO BUGS...............>>>
The more I think about this, the more concerned I become. It really bothers me that he can make up a story, have his story disputed by you, but mom still seems to believe the boy. What if the boy decides to up the ante and makes up a story about being harmed by someone (you?) during daycare hours? Will mom believe your account, or his?
I'd be having a really serious talk with her about the fibbing, and if she didn't seem to take it as seriously as I did, I'd likely be terminating. It's absolutely developmentally normal for children his age to make up stories, but it's not normal for parents to believe the stories as gospel truth, especially when a trusted adult (I assume she leaves him with you because she trusts you, right) is stating that it's fabrication.
I could deal with a lot of difficult or strange situations, but this one would likely become a no go for me. Too much risk.
MarinaVanessa 07:27 AM 04-09-2014
I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.
taylorw1210 07:40 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.
I agree.
Heidi 07:41 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.
I do believe she's bent on raising a sociopath!
daycare 10:35 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.
bingo..... It is so annoying and just driving me crazy. I don't know what I could possibly do to get it to stop here at my home. Like I said before, I know that I can't do anything about it at home, but I will do something about it here. Again this morning, DCK is getting dropped off and the DCM tells him to take off his shoes and jacket. something else is said that I did not hear and the DCK says to the DCM "DOn't say those words to me, I don't like it when you talk to me like that" I was so annoyed that I just walked away.
This family is my first drop off and I am starting my day out annoyed. Normally I can just walk away and LET IT GO (hate that song) but it's driving me NUTS........
Laurel 10:39 AM 04-09-2014
The only thing I can come up with for the mom is to tell her that you can't allow episodes like the bookcase anymore SO from now on you would like her to say her goodbyes and give hugs BEFORE they knock on your door in the morning. Either that or the moment it starts walk away while saying to mom "When you two get this settled, let me know. I'll be in the next room."
Laurel
Heidi 11:05 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
The only thing I can come up with for the mom is to tell her that you can't allow episodes like the bookcase anymore SO from now on you would like her to say her goodbyes and give hugs BEFORE they knock on your door in the morning. Either that or the moment it starts walk away while saying to mom "When you two get this settled, let me know. I'll be in the next room."
Laurel
I would also not tolerate disrespect towards you. If he sasses you in front of her, I would tell him right in front of her that talking to you like that is NOT okay at your school. He may go sit down in the kitchen (or another designated spot) and come out when he is ready to be respectful.
Honestly, if you haven't already talked to mom about this outside of dcb's earshot, it may be time for a phone call. She can raise her child any way she pleases, but you will NOT tolerate being treated disrespectfully by a 5 year old. If that's a problem for her, she needs to find another school.
I was thinking about a way you could handle dcb himself. Every single time he comes to you with a complaint, say the same exact words to him, blank expression. Like "ok, thanks for letting me know" or "I hear you" or something. No expression, no reaction, just a mantra. You could even go with "that must be terrible for you". Maybe he'll get bored with telling you every feeling. When and if he has a legitimate gripe, like he falls and skins him knee, THEN give him some lovin', of course. Also, catch him "being good" and thanking him for helping with small tasks will give him more positive reinforcement. WDYT?
melilley 11:12 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.
And as long as dcm caters to dcb, the longer dcb is going to act this way. He's not dumb, he knows!
daycare 11:24 AM 04-09-2014
thanks for the tips. he is the little boy who cried "wolf" ( hope I got that right)
I will use the same mantra every time taking any attention or value away from it. I think that I will email the mother and let her know that she needs to just drop and go or handle things outside. I could go on and on about the nuts things that this mom does, they are just sooooooooo weird. I don't even know how to explain it.
I will be sure to talk to my staff too and make sure that they also give the same response. I hope this works, if it does not, by next month I am going to have to term. I just dont want to deal with this all summer long.
Heidi 11:33 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
thanks for the tips. he is the little boy who cried "wolf" ( hope I got that right)
I will use the same mantra every time taking any attention or value away from it. I think that I will email the mother and let her know that she needs to just drop and go or handle things outside. I could go on and on about the nuts things that this mom does, they are just sooooooooo weird. I don't even know how to explain it.
I will be sure to talk to my staff too and make sure that they also give the same response. I hope this works, if it does not, by next month I am going to have to term. I just dont want to deal with this all summer long.
My sister trained her daughter to do this when there were some girls teasing her at school. Every time they said something rude, like "your hair is ugly" or "what is WITH your clothes?" etc, my niece would respond "that must be SO sad for you!" or something like that, over and over. NO.MATTER.WHAT. The answer doesn't need to make sense for fit the situation. The fact that it's slightly confusing throws them off their game.
It took a few days, but it worked! At first, they pushed MORE, but then they got bored.
daycare 11:42 AM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
My sister trained her daughter to do this when there were some girls teasing her at school. Every time they said something rude, like "your hair is ugly" or "what is WITH your clothes?" etc, my niece would respond "that must be SO sad for you!" or something like that, over and over. NO.MATTER.WHAT. The answer doesn't need to make sense for fit the situation. The fact that it's slightly confusing throws them off their game.
It took a few days, but it worked! At first, they pushed MORE, but then they got bored.
so what mantra should I use with the DCM when she feeds into it?
ok thanks your driving me NUTS?? lol jk
AmyLeigh 12:53 PM 04-09-2014
Ack sorry, I didn't realize that link wouldn't work. It's about people who go overboard in wanting to validate their children's feelings and begin to indulge them. It sounds like that is what DCM is doing. Here is the copy: (Bolded points are mine)
VALIDATING VS. INDULGING CHILDREN’S FEELINGS
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.
I grew up at a time when children’s feelings were not important. I was supposed to go along with the program without complaint, regardless of how I felt. If I was upset about something, my mother generally responded with, “Don’t be ridiculous,” while my father just ignored me. Many of my counseling clients had similar experiences in their growing-up years.
Those of us on a personal growth path don’t want to do the same thing to our children. We want our children to feel safe in expressing their feelings. We want them to know that what they feel matters to us, that their feelings are important to us. The problem is that sometimes children use their feelings to manipulate their parents, and parents sometimes get confused between validating their children’s authentic feelings and indulging the feelings intended to manipulate.
All feelings are not created equal. As parents, we need to learn to discern the difference in intent regarding our children’s expression of feelings. Authentic feelings are generated by life experiences, such as the loss of a pet, difficulties with friends, problems with learning, and so on. These feelings need to be attended to with caring and compassion. Manipulative feelings are generated by thoughts such as, “I want attention,” “I want new clothes,” or “I have a right to have whatever I want.” The expression of these feelings need to be ignored, or the child needs to be told that we don’t like the complaining, so that we are not indulging our children in using their feelings to manipulate.
Joanne is struggling with her 6 year old daughter, Rachael, regarding this issue of feelings. “I don’t want to squash her feelings the way mine were squashed.” However, Rachael has learned to use her feelings to control Joanne. For example, Rachael often cries bitterly in the mornings while getting dressed for school because she can’t seem to find the right combination of clothes. Joanne then spends lots of time trying to help Rachael and mornings have become a nightmare. The same thing happens regarding food. If Joanne doesn’t have the food Rachael wants, or doesn’t like the meal Joanne has prepared, Rachael often complains and carries on. If Joanne and her husband Dan want to go out alone for dinner or with friends, Rachael is outraged at being left out. Joanne consistently validates Rachael’s feelings by saying things like, “I really understand how you feel,” or “I really understand that this is important to you.”
However, in continuing to attend to Rachael’s feelings and giving them a lot of her time, Joanne is indulging Rachael and teaching her to use her feelings as a form of control. In addition, Joanne is not helping Rachael learn to manage her feelings rather than dump them on others. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean we need to act on the feelings. As adults, just because we may feel like having a ice cream for breakfast, doesn’t mean we indulge ourselves in having it. Just because we feel like sleeping in when we need to go to work doesn’t mean we allow our feelings to determine our behavior. Just because we feel like punching someone in the nose doesn’t mean we do it. Hopefully, we’ve learned to acknowledge and release our feelings without letting them control us.
The same needs to be true with our children. We need to learn to comfort our children’s authentic feelings, such as the pain over the loss of a friendship, while not giving much attention to feelings expressed to control.
When Joanne takes responsibility for fixing Rachael’s feelings, Rachael does not have to learn to take care of her own feelings. Joanne needs to walk away from or ignore Rachael’s tantrums and complaints when they are about things like her clothes or food. She needs to let Rachael know that, while she understands her feelings, Rachael also needs to learn to accept things as they are. Accepting how things are is part of learning to manage feelings.
If Joanne wants Rachael to grow up with good values, she needs to not give energy to issues such as the clothes. Indulging Rachael in thinking the right clothes are so important is not good for Rachael. Indulging Rachael in controlling whether or not she is included in adult activities is also not good for Rachael.
Rachael needs to learn to accept things even if she doesn’t like them – we all need to learn this. By indulging Rachael’s manipulative behavior through giving all her feeling so much importance, Joanne is creating a child with entitlement issues.Before we can help our children manage their feelings in healthy ways, we need to learn to manage our feelings in healthy ways. If you are indulgent with your feelings, your children will learn to do the same. If you are using your feelings to manipulate others, or allowing other to manipulate you with their feelings, your children will learn this from you. One of the best things you can do for your children is to become a role model regarding taking personal responsibility for your feelings.
Heidi 12:59 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh:
Ack sorry, I didn't realize that link wouldn't work. It's about people who go overboard in wanting to validate their children's feelings and begin to indulge them. It sounds like that is what DCM is doing. Here is the copy: (Bolded points are mine)
VALIDATING VS. INDULGING CHILDREN’S FEELINGS
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.
I grew up at a time when children’s feelings were not important. I was supposed to go along with the program without complaint, regardless of how I felt. If I was upset about something, my mother generally responded with, “Don’t be ridiculous,” while my father just ignored me. Many of my counseling clients had similar experiences in their growing-up years.
Those of us on a personal growth path don’t want to do the same thing to our children. We want our children to feel safe in expressing their feelings. We want them to know that what they feel matters to us, that their feelings are important to us. The problem is that sometimes children use their feelings to manipulate their parents, and parents sometimes get confused between validating their children’s authentic feelings and indulging the feelings intended to manipulate.
All feelings are not created equal. As parents, we need to learn to discern the difference in intent regarding our children’s expression of feelings. Authentic feelings are generated by life experiences, such as the loss of a pet, difficulties with friends, problems with learning, and so on. These feelings need to be attended to with caring and compassion. Manipulative feelings are generated by thoughts such as, “I want attention,” “I want new clothes,” or “I have a right to have whatever I want.” The expression of these feelings need to be ignored, or the child needs to be told that we don’t like the complaining, so that we are not indulging our children in using their feelings to manipulate.
Joanne is struggling with her 6 year old daughter, Rachael, regarding this issue of feelings. “I don’t want to squash her feelings the way mine were squashed.” However, Rachael has learned to use her feelings to control Joanne. For example, Rachael often cries bitterly in the mornings while getting dressed for school because she can’t seem to find the right combination of clothes. Joanne then spends lots of time trying to help Rachael and mornings have become a nightmare. The same thing happens regarding food. If Joanne doesn’t have the food Rachael wants, or doesn’t like the meal Joanne has prepared, Rachael often complains and carries on. If Joanne and her husband Dan want to go out alone for dinner or with friends, Rachael is outraged at being left out. Joanne consistently validates Rachael’s feelings by saying things like, “I really understand how you feel,” or “I really understand that this is important to you.”
However, in continuing to attend to Rachael’s feelings and giving them a lot of her time, Joanne is indulging Rachael and teaching her to use her feelings as a form of control. In addition, Joanne is not helping Rachael learn to manage her feelings rather than dump them on others. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean we need to act on the feelings. As adults, just because we may feel like having a ice cream for breakfast, doesn’t mean we indulge ourselves in having it. Just because we feel like sleeping in when we need to go to work doesn’t mean we allow our feelings to determine our behavior. Just because we feel like punching someone in the nose doesn’t mean we do it. Hopefully, we’ve learned to acknowledge and release our feelings without letting them control us.
The same needs to be true with our children. We need to learn to comfort our children’s authentic feelings, such as the pain over the loss of a friendship, while not giving much attention to feelings expressed to control. When Joanne takes responsibility for fixing Rachael’s feelings, Rachael does not have to learn to take care of her own feelings. Joanne needs to walk away from or ignore Rachael’s tantrums and complaints when they are about things like her clothes or food. She needs to let Rachael know that, while she understands her feelings, Rachael also needs to learn to accept things as they are. Accepting how things are is part of learning to manage feelings.
If Joanne wants Rachael to grow up with good values, she needs to not give energy to issues such as the clothes. Indulging Rachael in thinking the right clothes are so important is not good for Rachael. Indulging Rachael in controlling whether or not she is included in adult activities is also not good for Rachael. Rachael needs to learn to accept things even if she doesn’t like them – we all need to learn this. By indulging Rachael’s manipulative behavior through giving all her feeling so much importance, Joanne is creating a child with entitlement issues.Before we can help our children manage their feelings in healthy ways, we need to learn to manage our feelings in healthy ways. If you are indulgent with your feelings, your children will learn to do the same. If you are using your feelings to manipulate others, or allowing other to manipulate you with their feelings, your children will learn this from you. One of the best things you can do for your children is to become a role model regarding taking personal responsibility for your feelings.
Awesome!
I just had a conversation with a dcm today about how dear dcg is starting to manipulate (or trying to) everyone else with her feelings. She's 16 months old, and already tries.
daycare 01:24 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh:
Ack sorry, I didn't realize that link wouldn't work. It's about people who go overboard in wanting to validate their children's feelings and begin to indulge them. It sounds like that is what DCM is doing. Here is the copy: (Bolded points are mine)
VALIDATING VS. INDULGING CHILDREN’S FEELINGS
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.
I grew up at a time when children’s feelings were not important. I was supposed to go along with the program without complaint, regardless of how I felt. If I was upset about something, my mother generally responded with, “Don’t be ridiculous,” while my father just ignored me. Many of my counseling clients had similar experiences in their growing-up years.
Those of us on a personal growth path don’t want to do the same thing to our children. We want our children to feel safe in expressing their feelings. We want them to know that what they feel matters to us, that their feelings are important to us. The problem is that sometimes children use their feelings to manipulate their parents, and parents sometimes get confused between validating their children’s authentic feelings and indulging the feelings intended to manipulate.
All feelings are not created equal. As parents, we need to learn to discern the difference in intent regarding our children’s expression of feelings. Authentic feelings are generated by life experiences, such as the loss of a pet, difficulties with friends, problems with learning, and so on. These feelings need to be attended to with caring and compassion. Manipulative feelings are generated by thoughts such as, “I want attention,” “I want new clothes,” or “I have a right to have whatever I want.” The expression of these feelings need to be ignored, or the child needs to be told that we don’t like the complaining, so that we are not indulging our children in using their feelings to manipulate.
Joanne is struggling with her 6 year old daughter, Rachael, regarding this issue of feelings. “I don’t want to squash her feelings the way mine were squashed.” However, Rachael has learned to use her feelings to control Joanne. For example, Rachael often cries bitterly in the mornings while getting dressed for school because she can’t seem to find the right combination of clothes. Joanne then spends lots of time trying to help Rachael and mornings have become a nightmare. The same thing happens regarding food. If Joanne doesn’t have the food Rachael wants, or doesn’t like the meal Joanne has prepared, Rachael often complains and carries on. If Joanne and her husband Dan want to go out alone for dinner or with friends, Rachael is outraged at being left out. Joanne consistently validates Rachael’s feelings by saying things like, “I really understand how you feel,” or “I really understand that this is important to you.”
However, in continuing to attend to Rachael’s feelings and giving them a lot of her time, Joanne is indulging Rachael and teaching her to use her feelings as a form of control. In addition, Joanne is not helping Rachael learn to manage her feelings rather than dump them on others. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean we need to act on the feelings. As adults, just because we may feel like having a ice cream for breakfast, doesn’t mean we indulge ourselves in having it. Just because we feel like sleeping in when we need to go to work doesn’t mean we allow our feelings to determine our behavior. Just because we feel like punching someone in the nose doesn’t mean we do it. Hopefully, we’ve learned to acknowledge and release our feelings without letting them control us.
The same needs to be true with our children. We need to learn to comfort our children’s authentic feelings, such as the pain over the loss of a friendship, while not giving much attention to feelings expressed to control. When Joanne takes responsibility for fixing Rachael’s feelings, Rachael does not have to learn to take care of her own feelings. Joanne needs to walk away from or ignore Rachael’s tantrums and complaints when they are about things like her clothes or food. She needs to let Rachael know that, while she understands her feelings, Rachael also needs to learn to accept things as they are. Accepting how things are is part of learning to manage feelings.
If Joanne wants Rachael to grow up with good values, she needs to not give energy to issues such as the clothes. Indulging Rachael in thinking the right clothes are so important is not good for Rachael. Indulging Rachael in controlling whether or not she is included in adult activities is also not good for Rachael. Rachael needs to learn to accept things even if she doesn’t like them – we all need to learn this. By indulging Rachael’s manipulative behavior through giving all her feeling so much importance, Joanne is creating a child with entitlement issues.Before we can help our children manage their feelings in healthy ways, we need to learn to manage our feelings in healthy ways. If you are indulgent with your feelings, your children will learn to do the same. If you are using your feelings to manipulate others, or allowing other to manipulate you with their feelings, your children will learn this from you. One of the best things you can do for your children is to become a role model regarding taking personal responsibility for your feelings.
wow this was a perfect read thanks for finding that and sharing that with me. This is EXACTLY what is going on. So how would I break this down to share it with the DCM? Or should I just file it away to read again later so I better understand?
MarinaVanessa 02:05 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I do believe she's bent on raising a sociopath!
Not at all. Some children need more attention than others and need more validation. Even negative attention is better than no attention at all to a young child. Actually it's pretty normal for children to 'fib' at this age and to tell stories. This is probably just his way of getting attention that he is craving.
It's hard to say why he is craving this attention. He could not be getting attention at home, he could not have good self esteem/confidence, he could be getting a lot of negative attention at home, he could be a super needy child by nature etc. It's really hard to say. If he is being catered to like this at home then could be "fueling the fire". If he is only punished at home but validated at daycare when parent is present then this could be confusing to the child.
If provider ignores this behavior yet DCM reinforces it during drop-off and pick-ups then I don't ask why it's happening, I ask why not. The DCB has found a way that gives him attention and from what little I know it doesn't seem to be the provider's attention he is looking for. He has found what works for him. There is a payoff = moms attention.
As far as actual strategies to remedy this, well that's more difficult. It CAN be done without mom's help but it'll just take longer. You somehow need to take DCM out of the scenario and find a way to do 'bye-bye outside' in a way that can work for you. Maybe just leave sign in sheet outside for her to sign, have her knock and you take DCB and write in the time yourself. While in DC try different things like stories about fibbing (boy who cried wolf), reinforcing positive behavior, pointing out when he does fib but not making a big deal about it then quickly turning your attention to a child that is doing something positive etc. It's hard to say exactly what will work, all children are different.
Laurel 02:36 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
My sister trained her daughter to do this when there were some girls teasing her at school. Every time they said something rude, like "your hair is ugly" or "what is WITH your clothes?" etc, my niece would respond "that must be SO sad for you!" or something like that, over and over. NO.MATTER.WHAT. The answer doesn't need to make sense for fit the situation. The fact that it's slightly confusing throws them off their game.
It took a few days, but it worked! At first, they pushed MORE, but then they got bored.
I saw an episode of the children's show Little Bill. They suggested just saying "So"?
Laurel 02:39 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
wow this was a perfect read thanks for finding that and sharing that with me. This is EXACTLY what is going on. So how would I break this down to share it with the DCM? Or should I just file it away to read again later so I better understand?
Just give her a copy. She already knows how you feel.
daycare 03:26 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
Just give her a copy. She already knows how you feel.
do you think that she would get upset if I gave her this information? I don't want to her offend her, but I do want to be able to explain myself better. I have a hard time to make sense of what I am thinking when I need to put it into words.. I hope that made sense.
Heidi 03:30 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
do you think that she would get upset if I gave her this information? I don't want to her offend her, but I do want to be able to explain myself better. I have a hard time to make sense of what I am thinking when I need to put it into words.. I hope that made sense.
I guess I wouldn't be so worried about offending her? She's driving you bonkers. You can be kind and still make YOUR feelings clear. It's affecting you and your job, and it's not healthy for dcb.
Heidi 03:30 PM 04-09-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
Not at all. Some children need more attention than others and need more validation. Even negative attention is better than no attention at all to a young child. Actually it's pretty normal for children to 'fib' at this age and to tell stories. This is probably just his way of getting attention that he is craving.
It's hard to say why he is craving this attention. He could not be getting attention at home, he could not have good self esteem/confidence, he could be getting a lot of negative attention at home, he could be a super needy child by nature etc. It's really hard to say. If he is being catered to like this at home then could be "fueling the fire". If he is only punished at home but validated at daycare when parent is present then this could be confusing to the child.
If provider ignores this behavior yet DCM reinforces it during drop-off and pick-ups then I don't ask why it's happening, I ask why not. The DCB has found a way that gives him attention and from what little I know it doesn't seem to be the provider's attention he is looking for. He has found what works for him. There is a payoff = moms attention.
As far as actual strategies to remedy this, well that's more difficult. It CAN be done without mom's help but it'll just take longer. You somehow need to take DCM out of the scenario and find a way to do 'bye-bye outside' in a way that can work for you. Maybe just leave sign in sheet outside for her to sign, have her knock and you take DCB and write in the time yourself. While in DC try different things like stories about fibbing (boy who cried wolf), reinforcing positive behavior, pointing out when he does fib but not making a big deal about it then quickly turning your attention to a child that is doing something positive etc. It's hard to say exactly what will work, all children are different.
Sorry...should have added "JK"
Laurel 04:54 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
do you think that she would get upset if I gave her this information? I don't want to her offend her, but I do want to be able to explain myself better. I have a hard time to make sense of what I am thinking when I need to put it into words.. I hope that made sense.
Well since you already explained how you felt by giving her the example of adults doing it to each other and how she would feel, she shouldn't be too offended.
Maybe say something like "Sally, I've been telling you that Junior's behavior regarding feelings is becoming somewhat of a problem for me. I found a good article about this that I would like you to consider. Please don't be offended but I really think this article is right on the mark. Let me know what you think." Then hand it to her with a smile.
Really, why should you suffer with this? That isn't fair to you.
Laurel