... see some parents just do not like the answer .... for part 1

at pick up last night I informed DCD that over the weekend it came to my attendtion that the day care was exposed to head lice. A very intresting conversation followed.

Then ..

When I checked my E-mail this morning I got the following from DCD. As a matter of background this DCK is from a spilt home and the DCD almost never

talks to the DCM. DCM just confirmed with my last night that I will be picking DCB up today.


Dear Mrs. ******,


Thank you for informing us about Head Lice reported by one of your 'kids' at your facility over the weekend. As a precautionary measure to minimize risk

of exposure for DCB, I have decided to find an alternative means for care for him. Please consider the payment made today to be for the week upon

his return to your services rather than for next week, as it was initially written out to be.

Regards,

DCD and DCD's partner

So I have written the following E-mail in response.

Jason,

You are more than welcome to keep DCB home from Day Care. Before, you make that final decision I think you should keep the following things in mind.

1. If DCB was exposed to head lice it was last week before I was aware of the situation. There is no guarantee that this child was here at the same time and day as DCB or that the two of them interacted in a manner that would result in DCB getting infected. Now that I am aware of the situation it is under control at my house. We have seen no signs of the lice being at my house.

2. I have "dealt" with this before, both from a teacher aspect and a parents aspect and I am fully aware of what can and should be done to prevent the spread of this. The last time (before the day care was open) this came into my house it did not spread past the first "victim".

3. All of the children that come into and my house attend a public school and that is most likely where it is coming from.

4. As per your contract you must pay me regardless of the reason that Gavin does not attend. See quote below.

"This is a guaranteed rate, with no credit for non-attendance regardless of reason. Payments are due on Fridays for the following week."

5. If you break the contract by not paying me then our contract is no longer in effect. Which means I will not hold DCB's spot in my Day care and upon your return you would need to sign a new contract which could be subject to this years higher rates.

Please let me know what you final decision is.

Do you think my response is harsh?

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Nope. It was a factual response with no emotion. Perfect for the situation.

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Looks good to me. I would've done almost the same, however, I would consider breaking the contract grounds for termination and no option for return.

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Lice IS highly contagious. Whether you've got a grip on it or not doesn't change that fact.


I don't think it's fair to force a parent to pay if they choose to keep their child home out of fear of threat of a communicable parasite -or- force them to go to your home and continue to subject that child to the risk.

Neither would be an acceptable option for me.

I realize it came from your child's school, is not your fault, and you're doing all you can but this isn't the parents fault either and you're essentially punishing them either way they decide for a situation they didn't create or have anything to do with.

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In my daycare, it doesn't matter why your child isn't here - you are paying me to hold their space. It isn't a matter of forcing a parent to do anything - it's a matter of parents who don't read/understand their contracts before signing them or thinking they are the exception to the rule for some reason

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Even when their space isn't available due to a COMMUNICABLE PARASITE???

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The space IS AVAILABLE. The parent is choosing not to use the space. It is only lice, it does not create or cause a health risk, just an annoyance.

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Not a health risk? Just an annoyance?

Because they don't bite and cause infection...or spread like wildfire.....


You wouldn't believe how bad lice can get until you saw the shaved completely ulcerated and infected head of a toddler....multiple times.

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I read the situation to mean the space IS available but the parent is choosing to stay home. There is a case of lice but the children have NOT been exposed directly to it. The provider is simply informing the parent that there has been a case. Not that their child HAS come into contact with it.

The parent is choosing to keep the child home even though his space is aviablable, NOT being forced to pay when there is no space to pay for.

I have extensive experience and training in lice and it's removal due to a previous place of employment and lice is contagious when a person comes into direct contact with items, people and places where there are live nits, eggs and bugs. (Contrary to popular belief, lice do NOT jump or fly.) Others aren't going to get it if the provider performs the required activites to eradicate the nits, eggs and bugs and is diligent in checking everyone upon admittance into care.

http://headlicecenter.com/

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How do you figure?

It's the providers child which means the entire house has been exposed.




To say I too have "extensive experience and training in live and it's removal" too almost makes me laugh lol. Almost every single one of my foster children (14 total in the span of the last 6 years) has come with a case ranging from minor to severe. I've been down this road far too many times to even want to be reminded of...

If a kid in my home has it, my home has it too. Or at least that's how I believe the situation should be handled. I would never declare my home eradicated in a days time. More like a week, and that's IF after multiple head and house checks I find no more evidence of infestation.


I guess we have simply reached different conclusions.

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To those that think that sort of response is perfectly acceptable, do you always require payment if parents choose not to expose their kids to something communicable literally right there in your daycares?

If a kid comes in with rotovirus you send them home right? Why? Because they can infect others.

If they're vomiting you send them home right? Why? Because they can infect others.

Influenza?

TB?

Ringworm?

Coxsackie?

Chicken Pox?

If the child in question cannot be quarantined from the rest of the group because it's literally the providers child and the affliction inside the home what else is a parent to do?

Do you seriously say tough beans? Bring your kid or pay up anyway even though you have to pay someone else for alternative care to keep your own child disease/illness/parasite free?

To me this isn't about money, or policy, it's purely about ethics. It would be RIDICULOUSLY unethical to stick parents in that position.



DaisyMamma - you'd put in an option to terminate THEM?? I cannot tell you how floored I was to read that....just...straight unbelievably shocked and literally horrified. As a parent ***I*** would absolutely terminate contract if that was the rock and a hard place a provider presented and attitude they had.

Seriously. Just wow....

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The difference here is the things you listed place a health risk to people that get it and lice does not. Which is why as per the santa clara county health department guidlines the schools here do not send children home for this they simply inform then at the end of the day.

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Yikes.

I would not be ok with my kids' school system handling lice that way. No wonder your daughter has suffered from it multiple times. Poor kiddo

I would not be ok with having to completely deep clean/quarantine every soft surface of my home just because the school choose to take a lackadaisical attitude toward it. In fact, I'd probably be pretty ticked off! Especially having my daycare, that's a whole lot of cleaning to do!


Doesn't it make you mad you have to keep doing all that???

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Willow-

Most daycares- the parents pay if the child is in attendance or not. The provider needs to be able to anticipate a weekly income- The provider is providing a service and is open no matter if the child is there or not. This is good business practice. In answer to your question, yes I charge if the parent decides to keep the child home, or if I send the child home sick.

Lice is different then a disease that will make you sick. Keeping your child home because she might get it.......come on. You might get all those illness's just walking into your local wal-mart- should you stay home forever? This provider has assured her client that the situation is under control- but to be on the look out just in case. The client should trust her provider and go from there. If Lice was rapid in the house and on the kids- the provider would shut down and take precautions to do what needs to be done.

Be nice to your fellow providers- we are a team of knowledge and experiences that will help you as you venture down the path of daycare. We come here to vent to each other our frustrations.

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That's pretty insulting to everyone who does things different than you do.

I don't agree that taking money for time not spent working is good business practice. That doesn't mean I'm right and the way you operate your daycare is using bad business practices.

We just see that issue differently is all.




Lice can make people sick though, and does all the time. Not like *cough cough* sick but as far as skin infections via the bites and scratches from the itching go they can really get out of control, and fast. I've seen it first hand.

Whether you think it's worth the risk of you or your child getting it that's fine, but not everyone lives in your world and has to agree.

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I am curious how long you have been doing daycare for?

Many of us have been doing daycare for 10 years, 20 years or longer. Many of us know that if we didn't charge for SPACES vs time then we likely wouldn't have businesses because there are MANY parents out there who would rip us off. It happens. Every single day. We need to be able to DEPEND on our incomes... not guess week to week or month to month how much we will be bringing in.

Anyhow, this "good business practice" isn't not just used by the majority of home daycares.... I cannot think of a single daycare center that would reimburse for a child's absence from daycare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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That is intresting information do you have a source to back it up I would like to read/see it first hand

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I will say I too thought Op's first response was a bit much, but she quickly fixed it to be more suited to the problem- very nicely I might add.

When you send your child to public school- you stand the risk of them coming home with lice, wal-mart etc....

The OP was not letting lice take over and make anyone sick, like a disease would from the get go. Big difference

We can agree to disagree. I don't agree with you~

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Intresting input

FYI here the middles schools do nothing about a head lice exposure untill they see a "pattern" or atleast %10 of the school is infeasted. Also, in acordance with santa clara health department guidlines they do not send children home, they simply inform parents at the end of the day.

You in put does give a different side of the story. I just do not see how keeping a child home from day care will help. Given that said child will stil come to day care 1/2 of the week and still attend school.

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I'm glad you're staying open minded.


Schools here (both where we lived before and where we live now) notify parents immediately both with an automated phone call AND with notes sent home from school if a single child is found to have it in the class room.

School nurse does daily checks of every child in that particular classroom until it's cleared as well as a single sweep of the entire school to identify if it's spread. Kids are sent home immediately if even so much as a single nit is found for a minimum of 48 hours and there has to be proof of treatment before they're allowed back.


It doesn't gross me out, and I get that it happens. 1st grade year school nurse sent my daughter home because of two measly nits and she was required to stay home for the required two days. It didn't bother me in the least if it meant keeping her from exposing it to other kids. I told my daycare parents and let them decide what they felt comfortable with. I'd NEVER force them to bring their kids into my home knowing what was going on or force them to pay (potentially losing their spot in my daycare if they decided to be cautious).


The word here is COMMUNICABLE. No different than if you said "Sure! Daycare kid who has Influenza A can attend, all other parents better bring their kids to play in his same space or pay up if they'd prefer to keep their child away until the threat passes."

There is no such universe in which that would ever make a stitch of sense to me.

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Lice is not the same as the flu. Lice are a public health neucsance not a health issue...unless you are allergic to them.

I'd charge for the space too.

Kids get lice....it sucks but it happens. DCD is not going to do
well when his little one hits school with that heavy handed over reaction.

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I totally see your point but children are exposed to hundreds and thousands of things everyday in every place a parent, teacher, friend or guardian takes them. If someone at McDonald's has somehting, how do we KNOW that the child playing next to him doesn't have it too? We don't, so I think that what this provider is doing is the right thing. We cannot shield our kids from everything so we do the best we can.

Parents don't inform us of every little thing their child came in contact with at Wal-mart or anywhere else they go because there is NO WAY they could so who really knows what kind of communicable things get passed around and how.

It isn't like we can tell parents they can't bring their child to the grocery store in case they might pick up something super contagious. This is the same line of thinking as the sibling clause where if one kid is sick the other has to stay home too.....I personally just don't see how that can work when not everyone gets the same illnesses and people can be carriers without ever being sick.

Impossible to predict or tell who has and who hasn't, so the space is available and you pay for it whether you use it or not. If they weren't comfortable with that rule, they should never have agreed to sign it in the first place.

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The difference here is just that - that provider *knows* and the parents in those hypotheticals don't.

I'm not at all suggesting kids should live in bubbles, but when you're running a daycare preventing the spread of communicables should be a priority. Whether they are considered a mere nuisance or a major health threat, parents don't send their kids to daycare to bring home bugs of any kind any more than kids should be sent with the ability to bring them in.

The door should absolutely swing both ways.

Unless you as a provider are willing to take a child with an active head infestation (being treated or not) then you should also be understanding of why a parent shouldn't want to expose their child to that situation. You don't want your home and other kids exposed to it, they don't want theirs.




Weren't comfortable with what rule? OP is just came up with this new policy last night I believe it was? Or at least the way it reads. As far as I know there wasn't any kind of lice policy stating a kid must continue to come even if the house has been exposed or pay if parents choose to keep them away until the threat passes.

OP, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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If the schools here took this aprouch then I would feel and think differently about what I should do. Howeve, the fact is here in Santa Clara county child will get exposed to lice at school and the county has decied that is ok and is better than children missing school because of something that is not a health risk.

FYI--from the parent point of view on my side this is very fustrating because I can only do so much to keep my own child from getting it because she will be exposed to it at school.

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But it isn't punishing at all, at least I don't see it that way. My policies are very similar in the sense that tuition is based on enrollment and not on attendance. If any child misses daycare for any reason whether illness, personal etc. there is no credit or reimbursement for that day. I do not charge by the day, it is a weekly rate and many providers choose to do it this way as well. If this policy is in the contract and the parents are aware and have signed the contract then it is their obligation to follow through with the agreement that they chose to sign and you can't punish someone by enforcing policies that they agreed to follow KWIM? That being said, I am sure that if the parents want to to they can look for childcare arrangements that do give credit for days missed.

Back to the OP. The letter good although I would have personally "softened it up" a little bit. To me it does sound a little harsh and I would have made the following minor tweaks.

[Beginning of letter]

Jason,

You are more than welcome to keep Gavin home from Day Care. Before, you make that final decision I think you should keep the following things in consideration.

1. If Gavin was exposed to head lice it was last week before I was aware of the situation. There is no guarantee that this child was here at the same time and day as Gavin or that the two of them interacted in a manner that would result in Gavin getting infected. Preventative measures are already in place for this situation and for other communicable diseases to prevent this sort of thing from spreading and now that I am aware of the situation I have taken measures to ensure that no other children are carriers and we have seen no signs of the lice being at my house.

2. I have dealt with this issue before, both from a teacher and a parents aspect, and I am aware of what can be done to prevent further infection. The last time I was faced with this issue (before the day care was open) it did not spread past the initial carrier.

3. All of the children that come into and my house attend a public school and that is most likely where the infected child contracted the lice and the school also has a protocol in place to reduce and prevent the further spread of lice.

I understand your concern from a parent's perspective and I respect your decision to keep Gavin home. I must remind you that as per ourcontract agreement your rate is paid weekly and is based on enrollment not on attendance and so any days missed are not deducted from the weekly fee. Our contract agreement states:

"This is a guaranteed rate, with no credit for non-attendance regardless of reason. Payments are due on Fridays for the following week."

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. If you have any more questions or concerns or if you decide to have Gavin attend afterall please don't hesitate to contact me.

[end if letter]

I took out #5 entirely because I thought it was going somewhere that it didn't need to go yet (cross that bridge when it comes sort of thing). If they bring up the "paying for the day that my child missed" again then you can address and remind them of #5 if it seems like they really don't want to pay for this day.

I suppose that for me my stance is that we as providers know what our policies are but most parents don't know or remember them all. Sometimes the parents try to pull a fast on on us but they are testing the boundaries and a simple courteous but firm reminder of the policies is all it takes to show them that you will not bend your policies KWIM? For me anyway, the letter in the OP sounded a little harsh and forceful which can sometimes create a bigger conflict (from a parent feeling attacked) when being firm yet polite can prevent and defuse these situations. But again, that's just me and that's just the way that I do things .

Good luck and don't forget to keep us posted.

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While I think Dad is overreacting, I totally see Willow's point here. It IS the provider's child who has it....I imagine her child spends time in every part of the house and around the DCK as well....so they and the house have all been exposed to it.

As a provider, I would NEVER follow the school's line of handling this, as the OP feels is okay. I work for a profit.....my livelihood is at risk if I allow things like head lice to become an issue.....The school and the teachers aren't making a profit, they have, really, no vested interest in ensuring that headlice is not an issue. UNLESS they send the child home and don't allow them to come unless nit free.....because they only get paid if the child is in attendance.....so, of course, it is in the school's best interest to allow the child to stay.

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Thank you for your in put and I have already made most of the changes to the letter/E-mail.

Just because I am enjoying the conversation this has started the two major things I was not comfortable saying was

1. "the school also has a protocol in place to reduce and prevent the further spread of lice"

Because, I do not consider the way the school handels this to be preventing the spread I actualy think the school is helping to spread it.

2. "I understand your concern from a parent's perspective"

Because, I do not understand his concern children get headlice and other things, it is part of being a child.


Any way with all that being said if anyone has any other constructive in put about the letter itself please give it soon as I will soon be sending it out via E-mail will send it certified mail if I have not gotten a response by 9:00 Am on Friday.

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I can see why you are not comfortable with #1 because obviously your schools don't handle lice the same way that schools in my area handle them. Here too if one child is seen "scratching" they are sent to the nurses office for a private lice check. If lice is found the child stays in the office and a parent is called and the child stays home for a mandatory 48 hours. The other children in the class are then checked one by one using the same process. If more than one child in the class has it, all parents get a letter. If more than one child has lice in two different classrooms then the whole school gets a note. Infested children must go into the office for another check the first day after the 48 hours to make sure that the lice and nits are gone etc.

Maybe instead of adding the stuff about the school you can insert information about what measures you have taken to ensure that there are no lice in your home like vacuumed/shampooed all soft furniture like chairs and sofas. Wiped down, dusted and disinfected all surfaces and hard toys. Laundered all area rugs, bedding, plush animals, curtains, laundry and pillows in hot water and dried in high heat for a minimum of 50 minutes. Sprayed mattresses and large furniture with lice spray (don't forget about your vehicles). Steam cleaned the carpet. Treated DS with lice shampoo with 2 treatments, checked and combed DS's hair several times a day to ensure that there are no more lice etc.

As for #2 just keep in mind that all you're really saying is that you understand that they have a need to feel like they have a right to keep their child home, which they do. That's all you're saying. You're not agreeing to their choice, you are just acknowledging that they have a right to do as they wish (keep their child home). You have already addressed in your note that they aren't going to get a "break" in the weekly fee.

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I agree with the majority here that he is paying for a space and not the actual attendance of the child. Most daycare's that I know of would still charge in this case. In my opinion if you were to allow him to get away with this what's to say he won't come back and say this again when one of your other daycare children has a stomach bug or anything for that matter. For example: DCB goes home and says "Anna threw up today and teacher sent her home"...dad could email you and say "my sons staying home today and tomorrow because I don't want him exposed to what little Anna had and what seems to be going around at the daycare. Can you credit me 2 days for next week since I'm keeping him home for the next 2 days due to your him being exposed to a stomach bug in your home".

There has to be a line drawn. He doesn't even know that it's your child correct? He assumes its a daycare kid. That would be my biggest worry. And children are exposed to things everywhere. I'm glad you changed the note up but I still think you're doing the right thing. Good luck

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