Daycare.com Forum
Parents and Guardians Forum>Advice Needed: Daughter the Target of Bad Behavior
Mandella 02:45 PM 11-07-2011
We have a 2.5 yr old daughter in a family-run daycare center with ~9 other kids, ages 6 months to 4 yrs. Since the center is so small, there are not seperate classrooms. There is a little 3 yr old boy there who is diagnosed ADHD and (as the teacher puts it) "is ugly to everybody". When our daughter was first learning to talk, she would shout the boy's name in a disciplinary voice whenever something happened (like she was blaming him), which suggested to us that he got correct a lot during the day at school. The issue is, this kid is now being "ugly" to my daughter.
Three weeks ago, she came home and said that he spit at her. We called the center the next day to verify, they said is was true, insured us that he does not target our daughter and said that they would be sure to tell us if anything else ever happened. They also said they dealt with him sternly and sent him home early. About a week after that, our daughter came home and said the little boy hit her in the face and mimicked the hitting. I called the center the next day, and they said that they didn't see him do anything and that our daughter never cried etc, but that our daughter actually had to go into time out that day for hitting and pushing.....they basically said "the behavior goes both ways". So today, DH picks our daughter up and her response to him asking how her day was is that the little boy "blew in her mouth". We interpreted this as kissing her, but she is really too young and limited in vocabulary to explain in any greater detail.
The center is clean, new and the staff is loving and supportive. Our daughter loves to go and asks to leave in the morning to go to school. Our biggest concern is that she is being exposed to boundary violating, disrespectful behavior from this behaviorally-challenged little boy. I am preparing to call tomorrow to figure out what is going on, but we are seriously considering removing her. If the kid is so bad to everyone and obviously a problem, why do they not kick him out?
Has anyone else had experience with this sort of thing?
Are there any daycare workers/operators who can shed some light on how this works from the inside?
Three weeks ago, she came home and said that he spit at her. We called the center the next day to verify, they said is was true, insured us that he does not target our daughter and said that they would be sure to tell us if anything else ever happened. They also said they dealt with him sternly and sent him home early. About a week after that, our daughter came home and said the little boy hit her in the face and mimicked the hitting. I called the center the next day, and they said that they didn't see him do anything and that our daughter never cried etc, but that our daughter actually had to go into time out that day for hitting and pushing.....they basically said "the behavior goes both ways". So today, DH picks our daughter up and her response to him asking how her day was is that the little boy "blew in her mouth". We interpreted this as kissing her, but she is really too young and limited in vocabulary to explain in any greater detail.
The center is clean, new and the staff is loving and supportive. Our daughter loves to go and asks to leave in the morning to go to school. Our biggest concern is that she is being exposed to boundary violating, disrespectful behavior from this behaviorally-challenged little boy. I am preparing to call tomorrow to figure out what is going on, but we are seriously considering removing her. If the kid is so bad to everyone and obviously a problem, why do they not kick him out?
Has anyone else had experience with this sort of thing?
Are there any daycare workers/operators who can shed some light on how this works from the inside?
daycare 03:51 PM 11-07-2011
I think you should schedule some time to sit and talk with the provider about your concerns.
First off, your stories are coming from a very young child, who does not have a sense of time. These events could have happened once months or weeks ago, but she just tells you that it happened today.
I had a 3yr old DCG in the past who was telling her mom and dad that every day little johnny or my son would hit her.
The hitting did occur a few times, but it had been months since the incidents had occurred.
I talked to the parents about it in detail with the child and we worked everything out.
There are two sides to every story and I know it must be very hard to understand what is going on if the DC is not communicating with you well and you have to rely on your little one for any information. Plus you are not there so you really don't know what is going on.
First off, your stories are coming from a very young child, who does not have a sense of time. These events could have happened once months or weeks ago, but she just tells you that it happened today.
I had a 3yr old DCG in the past who was telling her mom and dad that every day little johnny or my son would hit her.
The hitting did occur a few times, but it had been months since the incidents had occurred.
I talked to the parents about it in detail with the child and we worked everything out.
There are two sides to every story and I know it must be very hard to understand what is going on if the DC is not communicating with you well and you have to rely on your little one for any information. Plus you are not there so you really don't know what is going on.
Kaddidle Care 03:54 PM 11-07-2011
Do have that meeting with the DCP and express to them what you have said here. If they risk losing one or more children due to his behavior, they may take action.
This depends on how full they are and how much they need the income from him.
If other parents are complaining as well, there's a good chance he may already be on probation.
How is it that you know the little boy is DX'd ADHD? Did they at the Center tell you that or do you know his Parents?
I will tell you that it is somewhat unusual to have that diagnosis at age 3.
This depends on how full they are and how much they need the income from him.
If other parents are complaining as well, there's a good chance he may already be on probation.
How is it that you know the little boy is DX'd ADHD? Did they at the Center tell you that or do you know his Parents?
I will tell you that it is somewhat unusual to have that diagnosis at age 3.
daycare 03:57 PM 11-07-2011
I thought that too about the ADHD.... how do you know? The DCP legally cannot tell you if the child has any health issues....Really they can't tell you anything about another child. ANd 3 is super young to be already diagnosed
Mandella 04:36 PM 11-07-2011
We don't know his parents, but I met the mom once during pick up time and we chatted. She mentioned that he was ADHD and how happy she was to find a daycare that would finally take him. He apparently had issues other places and was asked to leave. I have been there several times during lunch and play time, and he is definately special needs behaviorally and developmentally. His language development is behind his age group, his behavior is obviously more agressive and energetic than the other kids, he has trouble with impulse control (more so than other kids his age). I teach and have worked with exceptional children, so I have some experience.
The only thing the DC has told me is about his interactions with my daughter, whether what she says is true for that day/ time period, and that he is "ugly to everybody" to illustrate that my daughter is not his target.
I understand the time period issue, but when she told us about the spitting it had just happened that day.
I will schedule the meeting with the teachers and see what comes of it. My biggest concern is that things are happening to her that she cannot communicate and that the school isn't at legal liberty to share.
The only thing the DC has told me is about his interactions with my daughter, whether what she says is true for that day/ time period, and that he is "ugly to everybody" to illustrate that my daughter is not his target.
I understand the time period issue, but when she told us about the spitting it had just happened that day.
I will schedule the meeting with the teachers and see what comes of it. My biggest concern is that things are happening to her that she cannot communicate and that the school isn't at legal liberty to share.
Heidi 04:49 PM 11-07-2011
Like the other providers here said, I would also suggest sitting down with your provider.
I have a 4yo boy here who will tell you everything happened "two weeks ago". He has no real concept yet of what that means, it's just something he's heard. As someone said, it's hard to determine when and how often things happen when they come from a child.
Children do hit each other, they pinch, they bite, they wrestle. As providers, we discourage this behavior, and we do everything we can to protect the children. Unfortunately, we can pretty much only act once the behavior has occured, so with 9 children, pretty much every day someone is going to get dis'd. If a particular child is more aggressive, we try to shadow that child, or seperate him for periods of time. But, if we want to accomplish anything else in the day besides dealing with one child (meals, art projects, play time), we will occasionally miss something.
I know having your child get hurt hurts your heart! Have a talk with the dc provider, and perhaps they can work out some additional strategies to reduce the chances and incidences.
I have a 4yo boy here who will tell you everything happened "two weeks ago". He has no real concept yet of what that means, it's just something he's heard. As someone said, it's hard to determine when and how often things happen when they come from a child.
Children do hit each other, they pinch, they bite, they wrestle. As providers, we discourage this behavior, and we do everything we can to protect the children. Unfortunately, we can pretty much only act once the behavior has occured, so with 9 children, pretty much every day someone is going to get dis'd. If a particular child is more aggressive, we try to shadow that child, or seperate him for periods of time. But, if we want to accomplish anything else in the day besides dealing with one child (meals, art projects, play time), we will occasionally miss something.
I know having your child get hurt hurts your heart! Have a talk with the dc provider, and perhaps they can work out some additional strategies to reduce the chances and incidences.
daycare 05:04 PM 11-07-2011
Originally Posted by Mandella:
We don't know his parents, but I met the mom once during pick up time and we chatted. She mentioned that he was ADHD and how happy she was to find a daycare that would finally take him. He apparently had issues other places and was asked to leave. I have been there several times during lunch and play time, and he is definately special needs behaviorally and developmentally. His language development is behind his age group, his behavior is obviously more agressive and energetic than the other kids, he has trouble with impulse control (more so than other kids his age). I teach and have worked with exceptional children, so I have some experience.
The only thing the DC has told me is about his interactions with my daughter, whether what she says is true for that day/ time period, and that he is "ugly to everybody" to illustrate that my daughter is not his target.
I understand the time period issue, but when she told us about the spitting it had just happened that day.
I will schedule the meeting with the teachers and see what comes of it. My biggest concern is that things are happening to her that she cannot communicate and that the school isn't at legal liberty to share.
If your child is being harmed by another child they do have to tell you. What they don't have to tell you is who did it. They can not release the name of the child who harmed your child, however, it sounds like your child is able to communicate with you about who is doing what to her.....We don't know his parents, but I met the mom once during pick up time and we chatted. She mentioned that he was ADHD and how happy she was to find a daycare that would finally take him. He apparently had issues other places and was asked to leave. I have been there several times during lunch and play time, and he is definately special needs behaviorally and developmentally. His language development is behind his age group, his behavior is obviously more agressive and energetic than the other kids, he has trouble with impulse control (more so than other kids his age). I teach and have worked with exceptional children, so I have some experience.
The only thing the DC has told me is about his interactions with my daughter, whether what she says is true for that day/ time period, and that he is "ugly to everybody" to illustrate that my daughter is not his target.
I understand the time period issue, but when she told us about the spitting it had just happened that day.
I will schedule the meeting with the teachers and see what comes of it. My biggest concern is that things are happening to her that she cannot communicate and that the school isn't at legal liberty to share.
nannyde 05:48 AM 11-08-2011
Sorry for you OP
This sucks.
A couple of things:
There's a really good chance that the child has actually never even been evaluated. It's REALLY common for parents to tell people their kid has ADHD because it's a golden ticket... go to... for "there's something wrong with HIM... it's not something "I'm" doing." I would venture to say that 90 plus percent of the time parents who have kids under five say that their kid has ADHD that they... at most... ran the kids bad behavior by the doctor or a nurse and the doc said he MIGHT have ADHD...
He's VERY young to have been evaluated for that. It's a time consuming and expensive process to have a kid evaluated at this age. The chances of that already being done on a three year old is slim.
The reason the center allows the kid to stay there is they want the money. The only time they don't want the money is when YOUR money goes away cuz they want your money too. When they realize they can't have YOUR money AND the kids money then they will choose YOUR money cuz YOUR money is easier to make then the kids money.
It's time to sit down with them and talk money. Tell them that if they don't get this kids "ugly" behavior in check that you are taking your money somewhere else. Don't discuss how much you would hate to do it and how much your child loves the center. Just talk about money. They speeka da language of money. Talk to them in that language.
One thing to keep in mind is that any time you go into a center you have a really good chance of having kids who behave this way. They are usually center jumpers because most centers are dying for kids now ... especially in that high profit age group. Even if they KNOW the kid is violent they will give it a try. The parent gets used to the process and can often predict how long the kid will last before getting booted out. They've been thru the stages the centers go through. They know the kid lasts as long as the center is willing to give him his own adult the majority of the day. As soon as the center realizes they can't manage to give him his own adult they start the warning to boot out process which is usually a three step deal. The center realizes they can't give him his own adult when the OTHER adults in the room (the ones caring for way too many kids because the adult that is supposed to have her share is just doing the behavior problem kid) start quitting or threatening to quit. This happens at the same time the victims parents start talking money to the center.
When that perfect storm happens then the kid gets booted and starts over at another center willing to give it a try.
Rinse and repeat
Your concern is just a brick in the wall of the cycle of this kids early childhood. You MUST do your part and let them know you won't have it anymore.
This sucks.
A couple of things:
There's a really good chance that the child has actually never even been evaluated. It's REALLY common for parents to tell people their kid has ADHD because it's a golden ticket... go to... for "there's something wrong with HIM... it's not something "I'm" doing." I would venture to say that 90 plus percent of the time parents who have kids under five say that their kid has ADHD that they... at most... ran the kids bad behavior by the doctor or a nurse and the doc said he MIGHT have ADHD...
He's VERY young to have been evaluated for that. It's a time consuming and expensive process to have a kid evaluated at this age. The chances of that already being done on a three year old is slim.
The reason the center allows the kid to stay there is they want the money. The only time they don't want the money is when YOUR money goes away cuz they want your money too. When they realize they can't have YOUR money AND the kids money then they will choose YOUR money cuz YOUR money is easier to make then the kids money.
It's time to sit down with them and talk money. Tell them that if they don't get this kids "ugly" behavior in check that you are taking your money somewhere else. Don't discuss how much you would hate to do it and how much your child loves the center. Just talk about money. They speeka da language of money. Talk to them in that language.
One thing to keep in mind is that any time you go into a center you have a really good chance of having kids who behave this way. They are usually center jumpers because most centers are dying for kids now ... especially in that high profit age group. Even if they KNOW the kid is violent they will give it a try. The parent gets used to the process and can often predict how long the kid will last before getting booted out. They've been thru the stages the centers go through. They know the kid lasts as long as the center is willing to give him his own adult the majority of the day. As soon as the center realizes they can't manage to give him his own adult they start the warning to boot out process which is usually a three step deal. The center realizes they can't give him his own adult when the OTHER adults in the room (the ones caring for way too many kids because the adult that is supposed to have her share is just doing the behavior problem kid) start quitting or threatening to quit. This happens at the same time the victims parents start talking money to the center.
When that perfect storm happens then the kid gets booted and starts over at another center willing to give it a try.
Rinse and repeat
Your concern is just a brick in the wall of the cycle of this kids early childhood. You MUST do your part and let them know you won't have it anymore.
Unregistered 02:27 PM 11-19-2011
Originally Posted by Mandella:
We have a 2.5 yr old daughter in a family-run daycare center with ~9 other kids, ages 6 months to 4 yrs. Since the center is so small, there are not seperate classrooms. There is a little 3 yr old boy there who is diagnosed ADHD and (as the teacher puts it) "is ugly to everybody". When our daughter was first learning to talk, she would shout the boy's name in a disciplinary voice whenever something happened (like she was blaming him), which suggested to us that he got correct a lot during the day at school. The issue is, this kid is now being "ugly" to my daughter.
Three weeks ago, she came home and said that he spit at her. We called the center the next day to verify, they said is was true, insured us that he does not target our daughter and said that they would be sure to tell us if anything else ever happened. They also said they dealt with him sternly and sent him home early. About a week after that, our daughter came home and said the little boy hit her in the face and mimicked the hitting. I called the center the next day, and they said that they didn't see him do anything and that our daughter never cried etc, but that our daughter actually had to go into time out that day for hitting and pushing.....they basically said "the behavior goes both ways". So today, DH picks our daughter up and her response to him asking how her day was is that the little boy "blew in her mouth". We interpreted this as kissing her, but she is really too young and limited in vocabulary to explain in any greater detail.
The center is clean, new and the staff is loving and supportive. Our daughter loves to go and asks to leave in the morning to go to school. Our biggest concern is that she is being exposed to boundary violating, disrespectful behavior from this behaviorally-challenged little boy. I am preparing to call tomorrow to figure out what is going on, but we are seriously considering removing her. If the kid is so bad to everyone and obviously a problem, why do they not kick him out?
Has anyone else had experience with this sort of thing?
Are there any daycare workers/operators who can shed some light on how this works from the inside?
First off this boy acting UGLY as YOU call it HAS a SPECIAL NEED life isnt easy for him either with a SPECIAL NEED that makes him feel out of control. How would you feel if another Mother was saying your child was acting UGLY and she had a special need. With a Special needs child it doesnt make the behavior ok but you have to deal with it in a different way and I give this center a pat on the back for not kicking him out because he isnt what society calls normal. If you dont like your little princess being exposed to his SPECIAL needs or as you call it him acting ugly then put her somewhere else Im sure they are trying to help any which way they can but its very hard with a child with ADHD.We have a 2.5 yr old daughter in a family-run daycare center with ~9 other kids, ages 6 months to 4 yrs. Since the center is so small, there are not seperate classrooms. There is a little 3 yr old boy there who is diagnosed ADHD and (as the teacher puts it) "is ugly to everybody". When our daughter was first learning to talk, she would shout the boy's name in a disciplinary voice whenever something happened (like she was blaming him), which suggested to us that he got correct a lot during the day at school. The issue is, this kid is now being "ugly" to my daughter.
Three weeks ago, she came home and said that he spit at her. We called the center the next day to verify, they said is was true, insured us that he does not target our daughter and said that they would be sure to tell us if anything else ever happened. They also said they dealt with him sternly and sent him home early. About a week after that, our daughter came home and said the little boy hit her in the face and mimicked the hitting. I called the center the next day, and they said that they didn't see him do anything and that our daughter never cried etc, but that our daughter actually had to go into time out that day for hitting and pushing.....they basically said "the behavior goes both ways". So today, DH picks our daughter up and her response to him asking how her day was is that the little boy "blew in her mouth". We interpreted this as kissing her, but she is really too young and limited in vocabulary to explain in any greater detail.
The center is clean, new and the staff is loving and supportive. Our daughter loves to go and asks to leave in the morning to go to school. Our biggest concern is that she is being exposed to boundary violating, disrespectful behavior from this behaviorally-challenged little boy. I am preparing to call tomorrow to figure out what is going on, but we are seriously considering removing her. If the kid is so bad to everyone and obviously a problem, why do they not kick him out?
Has anyone else had experience with this sort of thing?
Are there any daycare workers/operators who can shed some light on how this works from the inside?
momofsix 05:36 PM 11-19-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
First off this boy acting UGLY as YOU call it HAS a SPECIAL NEED life isnt easy for him either with a SPECIAL NEED that makes him feel out of control. How would you feel if another Mother was saying your child was acting UGLY and she had a special need. With a Special needs child it doesnt make the behavior ok but you have to deal with it in a different way and I give this center a pat on the back for not kicking him out because he isnt what society calls normal. If you dont like your little princess being exposed to his SPECIAL needs or as you call it him acting ugly then put her somewhere else Im sure they are trying to help any which way they can but its very hard with a child with ADHD.
Often "acting ugly" is a term used in certain parts of the country (USA) to mean any kind of "acting out" that isn't appropriate. It doesn't actually mean "acting ugly" although the words often make a good descriptive word picture.First off this boy acting UGLY as YOU call it HAS a SPECIAL NEED life isnt easy for him either with a SPECIAL NEED that makes him feel out of control. How would you feel if another Mother was saying your child was acting UGLY and she had a special need. With a Special needs child it doesnt make the behavior ok but you have to deal with it in a different way and I give this center a pat on the back for not kicking him out because he isnt what society calls normal. If you dont like your little princess being exposed to his SPECIAL needs or as you call it him acting ugly then put her somewhere else Im sure they are trying to help any which way they can but its very hard with a child with ADHD.
Cat Herder 04:58 PM 11-21-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
Often "acting ugly" is a term used in certain parts of the country (USA) to mean any kind of "acting out" that isn't appropriate. It doesn't actually mean "acting ugly" although the words often make a good descriptive word picture.
You can say it....Often "acting ugly" is a term used in certain parts of the country (USA) to mean any kind of "acting out" that isn't appropriate. It doesn't actually mean "acting ugly" although the words often make a good descriptive word picture.
"Down here in the South" (where I live) "acting ugly" can be anything from rolling your eyes at your Mother to tearing up an entire classroom.
It is a terminology thing.
Not intended to disrespect.