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  #1  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:46 PM
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I started my 4 month old LG at a new home daycare last week. The home daycare provider is new and has no other kids except her own 2 year old daughter. My LG went a couple of days for four hours each day and it went well. No crying. Today, however, she cried hysterically. Of course it broke my heart. I'm trying to make this transition as easy as possible and read some articles on how to help infants deal with the separation. One article suggested that I stay with her and get her used to the new environment and then gradually cut back on the amount of time that I'm there. I would love to do this. I would like to suggest to the provider that my LG start going full time but that I would stay with her for four hours each day until I have to start work. I will, of course, still pay full price. I wouldn't be able to gradually wean off time as there's only a few weeks until I have to start back to work.

As providers, how would you feel if a parent suggested this to you?
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:07 PM
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I started my 4 month old LG at a new home daycare last week. The home daycare provider is new and has no other kids except her own 2 year old daughter. My LG went a couple of days for four hours each day and it went well. No crying. Today, however, she cried hysterically. Of course it broke my heart. I'm trying to make this transition as easy as possible and read some articles on how to help infants deal with the separation. One article suggested that I stay with her and get her used to the new environment and then gradually cut back on the amount of time that I'm there. I would love to do this. I would like to suggest to the provider that my LG start going full time but that I would stay with her for four hours each day until I have to start work. I will, of course, still pay full price. I wouldn't be able to gradually wean off time as there's only a few weeks until I have to start back to work.

As providers, how would you feel if a parent suggested this to you?
I absolutely do NOT do this. For several reasons. First off your child is only 4 months old. A little too young for separation anxiety issues. You staying there more than a quick few minute goodbye is probably already making things worse.

If anything I'd recommend making the drop off quicker. It's not abnormal for kids to cry for a few minutes at drop off. That doesn't mean they cry for hours.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:11 PM
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In my experience, with both my own very clingy daughter and clingy daycare children , a quick hug and good bye is best at drop off. Any prolonging does not improve the situation. It is not that your daughter is not used to the provider, it is that she does not want you to leave, period. If you stay for 4 hours and then leave, your daughter is still going to cry because she will still not want you to leave and I think she will be even more confused by the hours long delay. It is important to get into a quick good bye routine from the beginning. I have never had a child who did not calm down soon after mom or dad left. I never had a 4 mos old with separation anxiety, but I have had several toddlers who did. They put on the show for mom or dad to see if they could get them to stay and turned it off soon after the parents left

Also, I would never had entertained having a dcm at my house for 4 hours each day. I have never heard of anyone doing that. I would have felt like I had to entertain the mom and the kids would not have gotten my attention.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:20 PM
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I also agree that 4 mos old is a little young for separation anxiety...Personally, I prefer getting children as infants for that reason....then they grow up learning the routine/expectations... I think it is normal for your child to notice you are gone and possibly be unhappy/insecure about you being gone, but I also think with a hug/kiss goodbye she will learn the arriving routines, too.

On the other hand, in the past, I have allowed parents to visit with the child for a few hrs at a time during dc time, but have found this to be more harmful than helpful. Like a previous poster mentioned, the lg still has to adjust and the longer stay would prolong the issue.

I would encourage you to have a consistent arrival routine and she will then know when you hug/kiss her you are going to leave....she will then adjust to the dc program.

Also, I have had parents to overly comfort their children after pickup in the evening by constantly holding their child all night because dcp feel guilty when their child cries. Remember, you want dc to be a pleasant/loving atmosphere so do things as you normally would at home....

Children are smart and actions speak loudly. I wish the best for you and your child.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I started my 4 month old LG at a new home daycare last week. The home daycare provider is new and has no other kids except her own 2 year old daughter. My LG went a couple of days for four hours each day and it went well. No crying. Today, however, she cried hysterically. Of course it broke my heart. I'm trying to make this transition as easy as possible and read some articles on how to help infants deal with the separation. One article suggested that I stay with her and get her used to the new environment and then gradually cut back on the amount of time that I'm there. I would love to do this. I would like to suggest to the provider that my LG start going full time but that I would stay with her for four hours each day until I have to start work. I will, of course, still pay full price. I wouldn't be able to gradually wean off time as there's only a few weeks until I have to start back to work.

As providers, how would you feel if a parent suggested this to you?
This is something I suggest to all my families as the optimal way to transition their child into child care. Not all families are able to do this but when they can, it is the best way to go. I would suggest staying the full time one day, then slowly decreasing the time each day until you just have a normal drop-off a couple of days before you have to return to work. Talk with your provider about it, explain why you think it would be beneficial. She may be thinking the same thing but not know how to approach it with you.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:41 PM
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I absolutely do NOT do this. For several reasons. First off your child is only 4 months old. A little too young for separation anxiety issues. You staying there more than a quick few minute goodbye is probably already making things worse.

If anything I'd recommend making the drop off quicker. It's not abnormal for kids to cry for a few minutes at drop off. That doesn't mean they cry for hours.
I should have been more clear. She doesn't cry when I leave. She's fine for the first couple of hours. I do just give her a quick kiss and I'm gone. It's the second couple of hours that she cries hysterically. And on the car ride home she started crying, screaming, so I pulled over and held her for a little while until she calmed down then put her back in her car seat and she was fine. She never does this at home. She almost never cries. If she wants something she kind of babbles in a very loud, whinny voice.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:42 PM
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I agree with the posters saying a quick good bye is the best way to go. Having a parent stay the whole day would be disruptive to the other children. Plus with my group, the kids tend to act out when another parent is there.

Since your provider only has your lg, then I would ask her and explain why you think it's important. I would go into it expecting her to say no or to come back with an offer for an hour or so per day.

Good luck!
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:00 PM
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I dont think staying for hours is going to help in this case. Your daughter is very young and according to you, not having issues with the initial separation, secondly you dont have the time to really do this scenario anyway, thirdly, your provider may really be opposed to this and as she has already started care and this was not discussed at interview, I can see how it could be a real conflict now.....you may come across as a demanding mom who does not trust a provider when the provider has already started caring for the child without your presence.

I am thinking the issue may be more of the following:

Is your child still breastfeeding? Have they just now transitioned to bottles? Is your child taking bottles well and in a timely fashion from the provider?

Is your child on a nap schedule and are they napping well at daycare?

Is your child being overstimulated? A new place with a busy group of kids, music or TV on a lot, new smells (especially if the provider has pets or uses a lot of harsh cleaners or fragrances) can all be a big change for babies.

None of these things are going to change due to you staying for hours for a couple weeks. The best way is to just discuss what you are seeing with your provider and work together on plan that is realistic for both of you. She cant change everything to accommodate just your child, you would need a nanny for that. But you also have to make sure that you are communicating well on your daughters eating and sleeping patterns. If the daycare has a routine that the baby is put on, perhaps it is you that will compromise and revamp things at home to match the daycare and keep continuity for your child.

This is just a start but again, I personally would not want a parent here hanging around for hours, especially with a infant. The strategy may be more effective with toddlers or preschoolers but again, not all kids are helped by having moms around. For many kids, quick goodbyes are best as is giving time for the provider and child to work out their relationship.

No matter what you do, if you are using daycare, your baby WILL miss you. It is perfectly normal AND healthy for her to cling to you at home and become more needy with the extended absence. That is what babies do and again, it is healthy. I would be very worried if she did not care when you left and was not upset by prolonged absences, you know? So it is possible this whole deal is just the adjustment period and I personally think that is what it is, provided she is eating and sleeping well there.
  #9  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:19 PM
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I believe this to be a troll, 4 month olds do not have anxiety about separation from their parent, and you wanting to stay 4 hours is ridiculous.

Now, just in case... You need to, as a parent, read some child development material. Your 4 month old is NOT concerned about you leaving her and she would NOT express this by crying in the car on the way home. A four month old has these concerns: food, sleep, gas, warm, wet/poopy. If she is crying, she is hungry or the food isn't working for her (gas.) She is tired. Or she is hot/cold. Or she needs a new diaper.
I am probably one of the most accommodating providers here. There is so much I really don't care about as far as parent stuff. After 30 plus years, I still do part time, do not charge when you are not here, and do not have paid vacations. I am also open to 24 hour care. And even with all that, I would NEVER allow you to hang out for four hours a day for even one day, much less several.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:22 PM
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I should have been more clear. She doesn't cry when I leave. She's fine for the first couple of hours. I do just give her a quick kiss and I'm gone. It's the second couple of hours that she cries hysterically. And on the car ride home she started crying, screaming, so I pulled over and held her for a little while until she calmed down then put her back in her car seat and she was fine. She never does this at home. She almost never cries. If she wants something she kind of babbles in a very loud, whinny voice.
She could be crying because her routine was off..i.e. nap, eating habits...this all is part of the adjustment process..... Take a deep breath, be open with your provider....remember the child can sense your stress as well.
  #11  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:29 PM
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I should have been more clear. She doesn't cry when I leave. She's fine for the first couple of hours. I do just give her a quick kiss and I'm gone. It's the second couple of hours that she cries hysterically. And on the car ride home she started crying, screaming, so I pulled over and held her for a little while until she calmed down then put her back in her car seat and she was fine. She never does this at home. She almost never cries. If she wants something she kind of babbles in a very loud, whinny voice.
You can't compare home behavior to daycare behavior.

My big recommendation is to be schedule consistent. Find out what the providers schedule is and try to adjust yours and work together.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:27 PM
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also, will add....are you a first time mother? there could be a lot of anxiety just coming from that. it is stressful to figure all this out and your child is right in the first set of milestones so her change in behavior could be change in sleep habits/regression, beginning of teething, change in diet, beginning of milestones such as staying up for longer periods, having a lot of floor play at daycare versus being held....the list goes on and on. Please dont stress yourself out comparing daycare to home behavior. It is two polar opposite places and there is so much going on in her world right now, a change in behavior could be one of a million things. Being a parent is hard work! we understand! i would just recommend not to be too hasty to throw off any changes as the daycares fault....that is slippery slope that will make you unhappy with your daycare situation faster than about anything else. if she was crying on the way home one day and you were able to soothe her quickly then it really isnt that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. babies cry, especially during big changes so I wouldnt necessarily read too much into that or feel like every thing she does "means" something. you are going to exhaust yourself trying to figure it all out. if over the whole picture of the week, things worked well and you have a comfort level with the provider then that sounds pretty good to me.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:42 PM
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I'm getting a lot of responses that this couldn't be separation anxiety since she's too young. Please allow me to explain in a little more detail what led me to think that it is separation anxiety and then I would like to hear what you all think. I think the brevity of my first post might have led to some confusion due to over-simplification. It might be a little long so I appreciate whomever gets through it! I'd love to know what is really going on because if she doesn't get better I'm not going to do my Ph.D.

This is the second daycare that I am trying out. The first daycare started out similar to this one; she did fine the first couple of days. She only goes twice a week for four hours each time. I have no particular nap schedule for her at home. She falls asleep in her swing when she's tired.

I stayed with her for the first day, which was for four hours.

Day two: Provider said she did great. She was eating when I arrived so I sat and waited for her to finish eating. Shortly after she started crying hysterically. I picked her up and she stopped crying. The Provider said it's because she could hear my voice and wanted me.

Day three: Provider said she cried a lot but thought she was just tired.

Day four: I called mid morning to hear her screaming hysterically in the background. Provider said she didn't know why she was crying. When I picked her up, hours later, provider was feeding her and she was crying (not hysterically, though). I picked her up and she stopped crying. In the car she was a little bizarre. She would scream and cry, then laugh, then babble, then scream and cry. It was really pretty scary actually. Seemed like some kind of anxiety attack. The rest of the day her movements were very erratic and hyper. She wouldn't really make eye contact with me.

She started crying more at home.

Day five: There was an assistant there while the Provider was at an appt. After handing her to the assistant she started screaming, wailing. The assistant put her in a seat and she scream even louder. I picked her up, she stopped crying and we went home.

I didn't go back to that daycare. Unfortunately the Provider and the assistant speak very little english so I had no way of really communicating with them.

On to daycare number 2.

The first day I stayed for two hours. When the Provider took her she got teary eyed but I smiled at her and told her she was fine. She teared up a couple of other times when Provider had her but she would look at me and I'd smile at her and she would be better. After I left she was fine the rest of the day.

Day two: Provider sends me pictures about every hour and she did great. All smiles.

She stopped crying at home and started her babbling/whinny voice again (So CUTE!!)

Day three: Around mid-afternoon, two hours into her time there, I hadn't gotten any pictures from Provider in awhile so I knew she must be freaking out. I drove there early to pick her up. When I held her she stopped crying. Provider took her again and she started crying again. I took her back, she stopped crying. Provider said she tried to give her a bottle but she didn't want it.

Provider told me that my lo is starting to realize that I'm not coming back to pick her up.

THE END! So you see, it's not just my observations, I was told by both Providers that she missed me/needed me. The first provider has been in the field for 15 years. Through my own observations as well it seems as though she misses me, or at least feels very insecure where she is. Her napping and eating times at these daycares was not significantly different then what we do on an average day at home.

If after reading this you feel it is something else I would love to hear it! I was also in tears all day today!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:04 PM
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I mean this in the niecest way possible but how do you expect your child to get used to anyone if you move her every time she cries.

Ime new children often act similar to a stray cat. It may take several days of putting your hand out, sometimes with food before the cat wil allow you to briefly touch them for a second and then run away again. They may hide in a bush and shake out of fear and display signs of stress.



You might leave food to intice them to come back, they may or may not. Over time they learn to trust you and know where to get the food from. They learn your behaviors, understand that thy can trust you and that you are safe. Eventually with time the stray cat will begin to come up to you. With more time and patience they will one day sit in your lap.


While this may sound a little crazy. In my experience children are no different

Basically you need to drop and go and give it time .

Last edited by daycare; 12-11-2013 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 PM
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I have no particular nap schedule for her at home. She falls asleep in her swing when she's tired.

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Old 12-11-2013, 10:35 PM
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I mean this in the niecest way possible but how do you expect your child to get used to anyone if you move her every time she cries.
I didn't move her because she was crying; i moved her because the Provider didn't speak english well and I couldn't ask what was going on. the assistant spoke no english at all. She couldn't even call me in an emergency. I couldn't communicate with her. I'm just not comfortable with that.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:38 PM
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I didn't move her because she was crying; i moved her because the Provider didn't speak english well and I couldn't ask what was going on. the assistant spoke no english at all. She couldn't even call me in an emergency. I couldn't communicate with her. I'm just not comfortable with that.
Just curious why you started with their program in the first place?
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:38 PM
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I think staying an hour isn't much to ask, although it could be awkward. I've done this. I did this for a day or two once. The girl was 17mo, she cried for the first few days on and off, then she was fine.

It is hard though, because a provider has to try to balance it between caring for your/her child, and you.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:45 PM
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if she was crying on the way home one day and you were able to soothe her quickly then it really isnt that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. babies cry, especially during big changes so I wouldnt necessarily read too much into that or feel like every thing she does "means" something. you are going to exhaust yourself trying to figure it all out. if over the whole picture of the week, things worked well and you have a comfort level with the provider then that sounds pretty good to me.
It wasn't just a cry, though. She was screaming hysterically. I'm no stranger to a crying baby. She was VERY colicky when she was little. I listened to nothing but crying for months and I know every kind of cry she makes. I know the difference between fussy and in duress, and I know my own limitations when trying to meet her needs. If she had just been fussy, whinny, crying, even heavy crying, I could accept that she's adjusting to feeding/sleeping, or whatever. I do feel like this particular cry is very serious and will be a big deal in the grand scheme of things if I ignore it.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:48 PM
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It wasn't just a cry, though. She was screaming hysterically. I'm no stranger to a crying baby. She was VERY colicky when she was little. I listened to nothing but crying for months and I know every kind of cry she makes. I know the difference between fussy and in duress, and I know my own limitations when trying to meet her needs. If she had just been fussy, whinny, crying, even heavy crying, I could accept that she's adjusting to feeding/sleeping, or whatever. I do feel like this particular cry is very serious and will be a big deal in the grand scheme of things if I ignore it.
Is she only doing this cry at daycare or at home too?

Maybe she is getting an ear infection or other issue ??? Maybe a call to the doc ??
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:49 PM
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Just curious why you started with their program in the first place?
I know, right!! Because she was so highly recommended. She often gets siblings for generations and the parents love her. They consider her the grandma. And the kids learn her language. Some kids know three languages (mom/dad speaks two) by the time they are five. Our LG would have known three languages by the time she was five and that would have been awesome. Plus we might have picked it up as well.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:49 PM
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I'm getting a lot of responses that this couldn't be separation anxiety since she's too young. Please allow me to explain in a little more detail what led me to think that it is separation anxiety and then I would like to hear what you all think. I think the brevity of my first post might have led to some confusion due to over-simplification. It might be a little long so I appreciate whomever gets through it! I'd love to know what is really going on because if she doesn't get better I'm not going to do my Ph.D.

This is the second daycare that I am trying out. The first daycare started out similar to this one; she did fine the first couple of days. She only goes twice a week for four hours each time. I have no particular nap schedule for her at home. She falls asleep in her swing when she's tired.

I stayed with her for the first day, which was for four hours.

Day two: Provider said she did great. She was eating when I arrived so I sat and waited for her to finish eating. Shortly after she started crying hysterically. I picked her up and she stopped crying. The Provider said it's because she could hear my voice and wanted me.

Day three: Provider said she cried a lot but thought she was just tired.

Day four: I called mid morning to hear her screaming hysterically in the background. Provider said she didn't know why she was crying. When I picked her up, hours later, provider was feeding her and she was crying (not hysterically, though). I picked her up and she stopped crying. In the car she was a little bizarre. She would scream and cry, then laugh, then babble, then scream and cry. It was really pretty scary actually. Seemed like some kind of anxiety attack. The rest of the day her movements were very erratic and hyper. She wouldn't really make eye contact with me.

She started crying more at home.

Day five: There was an assistant there while the Provider was at an appt. After handing her to the assistant she started screaming, wailing. The assistant put her in a seat and she scream even louder. I picked her up, she stopped crying and we went home.

I didn't go back to that daycare. Unfortunately the Provider and the assistant speak very little english so I had no way of really communicating with them.

On to daycare number 2.

The first day I stayed for two hours. When the Provider took her she got teary eyed but I smiled at her and told her she was fine. She teared up a couple of other times when Provider had her but she would look at me and I'd smile at her and she would be better. After I left she was fine the rest of the day.

Day two: Provider sends me pictures about every hour and she did great. All smiles.

She stopped crying at home and started her babbling/whinny voice again (So CUTE!!)

Day three: Around mid-afternoon, two hours into her time there, I hadn't gotten any pictures from Provider in awhile so I knew she must be freaking out. I drove there early to pick her up. When I held her she stopped crying. Provider took her again and she started crying again. I took her back, she stopped crying. Provider said she tried to give her a bottle but she didn't want it.

Provider told me that my lo is starting to realize that I'm not coming back to pick her up.

THE END! So you see, it's not just my observations, I was told by both Providers that she missed me/needed me. The first provider has been in the field for 15 years. Through my own observations as well it seems as though she misses me, or at least feels very insecure where she is. Her napping and eating times at these daycares was not significantly different then what we do on an average day at home.

If after reading this you feel it is something else I would love to hear it! I was also in tears all day today!
I would give it more time, really honestly. I have had several infants who have acted similarly to this, and after some adjustment time they were happy,thriving, children. Some wouldn't take bottles for up to two weeks, and would scream when we tried to feed them. If you feel confident in the care giver's abilities, and level of care she is receiving (which it appears that you do), then I would just allow her to adjust to being there. Adjustment isn't always easy for the parent or child, but it sounds as if an adjustment period to being away from you is going to happen no matter where she is, so your best bet is to choose a daycare that you are comfortable with and just give her the time to adjust. I personally, say 1 month for your average child to adjust, and up to 2 months for some. If you just give it time, she will get used to and get into a groove with her new provider.

Now, I will say because her current provider is a new provider, she might not be used to the adjustment periods. I would just keep an open communication with her about it. Talk to the provider, and keep things consistent from daycare to home. Does the provider have a swing ? Is she allowed to let her sleep in it ? A lot of daycare providers legally can't let a child sleep in a swing, so if that's an issue for her - I would stop it at home. Having no major differences between the way things are done at daycare and at home, is the absolute easiest way to help her adjust. If she is allowed to let her fall asleep in a swing, then it might be worth it to bring your swing back and forth every day. Personally, I would not travel with the swing, and just switch to a new way of putting her to sleep that works for you both.

Even though she is 4 months, and cannot have actual separation anxiety - she is aware that things are different (different smells, different noises, different environment as a whole). It is going to take some adjustment on her part.
  #23  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:55 PM
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Is she only doing this cry at daycare or at home too?

Maybe she is getting an ear infection or other issue ??? Maybe a call to the doc ??
I would think that as well but no, she doesn't do this at home at all. She has cried like this once or twice when she was younger due to her reflux (i think) but that is about it. Of course now that she's older it sounds a little different but it's about the same kind of urgency. Oh wait, she cried like this recently after she got her vaccine shots, too. she had a nasty reaction with fever, inflammation, whole leg turned red

I don't think it's a physical need since she stops whenever I pick her up and she doesn't start up again until the next time she's at daycare.
  #24  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:01 PM
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I would think that as well but no, she doesn't do this at home at all. She has cried like this once or twice when she was younger due to her reflux (i think) but that is about it. Of course now that she's older it sounds a little different but it's about the same kind of urgency. Oh wait, she cried like this recently after she got her vaccine shots, too. she had a nasty reaction with fever, inflammation, whole leg turned red

I don't think it's a physical need since she stops whenever I pick her up and she doesn't start up again until the next time she's at daycare.
If she is stopping whenever you pick her up, then I would take her crying with a grain of salt. As a mom, I know it is tough to hear, but if the crying stops on a dime after being picked up, then she wasn't too emotionally distressed to being with.

Also, again, I know it's tough to handle - but her crying isn't fatal - and as long as her basic needs are being met - she might just need to work through the crying. Does she stop crying when the daycare provider picks her up ?
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:06 PM
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I would think that as well but no, she doesn't do this at home at all. She has cried like this once or twice when she was younger due to her reflux (i think) but that is about it. Of course now that she's older it sounds a little different but it's about the same kind of urgency. Oh wait, she cried like this recently after she got her vaccine shots, too. she had a nasty reaction with fever, inflammation, whole leg turned red

I don't think it's a physical need since she stops whenever I pick her up and she doesn't start up again until the next time she's at daycare.
I could just be that she's is afraid of the new provider because she has not gotten to now her and trust her yet.

At this age translations to daycare is always harder for the parents than the child. Trust us that when we say give it time, we promise you it will happen.

However , if you are not comfortable with the provider, which will take time for you too, then pull her.

Like my story about the stray cat. It all takes time.

I had a little one that was fine if I let him be, but if I picked him up he screamed like I was pinching him. He was very part time and it took about 3 months before he finally got to fully trust me and know me. He stayed with me for 3 years.

Take a deep breath at drop off and as hard as it is, just give one hug one kiss I love you and leave. Again this is if you feel your baby is safe with the provider, which sounds like she is.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:11 PM
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I would give it more time, really honestly. I have had several infants who have acted similarly to this, and after some adjustment time they were happy,thriving, children. Some wouldn't take bottles for up to two weeks, and would scream when we tried to feed them. If you feel confident in the care giver's abilities, and level of care she is receiving (which it appears that you do), then I would just allow her to adjust to being there. Adjustment isn't always easy for the parent or child, but it sounds as if an adjustment period to being away from you is going to happen no matter where she is, so your best bet is to choose a daycare that you are comfortable with and just give her the time to adjust. I personally, say 1 month for your average child to adjust, and up to 2 months for some. If you just give it time, she will get used to and get into a groove with her new provider.

Now, I will say because her current provider is a new provider, she might not be used to the adjustment periods. I would just keep an open communication with her about it. Talk to the provider, and keep things consistent from daycare to home. Does the provider have a swing ? Is she allowed to let her sleep in it ? A lot of daycare providers legally can't let a child sleep in a swing, so if that's an issue for her - I would stop it at home. Having no major differences between the way things are done at daycare and at home, is the absolute easiest way to help her adjust. If she is allowed to let her fall asleep in a swing, then it might be worth it to bring your swing back and forth every day. Personally, I would not travel with the swing, and just switch to a new way of putting her to sleep that works for you both.

Even though she is 4 months, and cannot have actual separation anxiety - she is aware that things are different (different smells, different noises, different environment as a whole). It is going to take some adjustment on her part.
thank you for taking the time to read all that! I am so worried that she's going to start refusing bottles. If I don't have to go back to work, and could stay home, from your experience with similar kids would you say that it would be in her best interest to give her more time to get more comfortable with me being away? Perhaps leaving her now is just too soon? I'm worried that letting her CIO, so-to-speak, could be detrimental to her wellbeing since she is so young.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:24 PM
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If she is stopping whenever you pick her up, then I would take her crying with a grain of salt. As a mom, I know it is tough to hear, but if the crying stops on a dime after being picked up, then she wasn't too emotionally distressed to being with.

Also, again, I know it's tough to handle - but her crying isn't fatal - and as long as her basic needs are being met - she might just need to work through the crying. Does she stop crying when the daycare provider picks her up ?
her crying starts again when the provider picks her up. i'm concerned for her emotional needs. i'm worried that she'll have abandonment issues or something. the one day after daycare that she wouldn't make eye contact with me the rest of the day was alarming. she regularly stares at me all the time.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:35 PM
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I think staying an hour isn't much to ask, although it could be awkward. I've done this. I did this for a day or two once. The girl was 17mo, she cried for the first few days on and off, then she was fine.

It is hard though, because a provider has to try to balance it between caring for your/her child, and you.
i understand that it is awkward and complicated having me there. i would feel bad but this provider has no other kids. and i feel that my lg must feel this same awkwardness with a new person trying to care for her. i think it would help her immensely to have an adult to communicate for her.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:38 PM
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thank you for taking the time to read all that! I am so worried that she's going to start refusing bottles. If I don't have to go back to work, and could stay home, from your experience with similar kids would you say that it would be in her best interest to give her more time to get more comfortable with me being away? Perhaps leaving her now is just too soon? I'm worried that letting her CIO, so-to-speak, could be detrimental to her wellbeing since she is so young.
I would truly give it more time, from the bottom of my heart. I really think that time will settle everything.

In my personal opinion, at 4 months, if all of her needs are met and there is nothing that the provider can do to make her stop - then it won't be detrimental for her to cry. In my honest opinion, if all her basic needs are met, then there is little risk of emotional issues. I think the emotional/abandonment issues would exist if all of her needs weren't being met, and a child is left to cry.

I have had a few children that age refuse bottles for the first week. It was solely because it was a new environment, with a new person, and it just wasn't the way the child had had taken bottles for the past 4 months (his entire life). If you think about it, the last 4 months is the only thing she knows and now things have all changed. Luckily, both parents had a "when they are hungry, they will drink" attitude, and surely enough - when they got hungry enough they drank. I wouldn't worry to much about her starting to refuse bottles, if she didn't do it on day 1.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:41 PM
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thank you for taking the time to read all that! I am so worried that she's going to start refusing bottles. If I don't have to go back to work, and could stay home, from your experience with similar kids would you say that it would be in her best interest to give her more time to get more comfortable with me being away? Perhaps leaving her now is just too soon? I'm worried that letting her CIO, so-to-speak, could be detrimental to her wellbeing since she is so young.
Honestly, in my experience - the older an infant is the harder a time they have adjusting to a new place. A 6/7 month old is SO much more aware of their surroundings, and much more aware that you aren't there. So I would think that it would only get worse if she were older.

I would give a yourself an ultimatum, and tell yourself that you will continue on your current path for a month, and wait out that month, and then reevaluate. I really think things will be easier/better sooner than a month.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:45 PM
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i understand that it is awkward and complicated having me there. i would feel bad but this provider has no other kids. and i feel that my lg must feel this same awkwardness with a new person trying to care for her. i think it would help her immensely to have an adult to communicate for her.
Yes, but you also need to let the provider and your child figure out their relationship. Left alone with your baby, the provider will learn what she want's and is expecting. You have to let them figure things out between the two of them. That is how they will bond and build trust.

They have to get into a groove, and let them communicate and get into a routine together. The provider will figure out your baby's cues without help, I promise, Plus, with your little girl behaving so differently at home and at daycare, it probably won't take the same actions it takes at home to soothe her. Plus, the daycare provider needs to do things the way it works for her - not the way you would do it.

Give it time. Give it time. Give it time.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:02 AM
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...you may come across as a demanding mom who does not trust a provider when the provider has already started caring for the child without your presence.
I feel like this is definitely an underlying issue at the heart of complicating my request. I've lurked around the forums for awhile and have noticed that this is a big issue between providers and parents. Providers are often insulted at the lack of trust parents give and aggravated at the over-bearing that follows due to this lack of trust. I suppose in a way I can understand but mostly I don't understand, particularly when the child is new. I know my asking to stay after the provider has had her a couple of times could be interpreted like a demotion in a way, but that is not what it is at all! It has nothing to do with whether I trust her or not. I want to make this transition as easy for my lg as possible and abruptly leaving her alone with a total stranger for long periods of time seems like it would be much more difficult for her then if I were there for awhile to acclimate her to the new environment. I also think it would help my lg to see me interact with the provider. This seems to me a difference of philosophy, not one of trust. But I think inevitably it would feel like a slight.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:16 AM
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I feel like this is definitely an underlying issue at the heart of complicating my request. I've lurked around the forums for awhile and have noticed that this is a big issue between providers and parents. Providers are often insulted at the lack of trust parents give and aggravated at the over-bearing that follows due to this lack of trust. I suppose in a way I can understand but mostly I don't understand, particularly when the child is new. I know my asking to stay after the provider has had her a couple of times could be interpreted like a demotion in a way, but that is not what it is at all! It has nothing to do with whether I trust her or not. I want to make this transition as easy for my lg as possible and abruptly leaving her alone with a total stranger for long periods of time seems like it would be much more difficult for her then if I were there for awhile to acclimate her to the new environment. I also think it would help my lg to see me interact with the provider. This seems to me a difference of philosophy, not one of trust. But I think inevitably it would feel like a slight.
Honestly, I can tell you from my experience, It has never once made it easier when a parent tries and stays to help acclimate their child. For me it isn't even an issue of trust. Also, I don't think your DD is old enough to care/notice whether you are interacting with the provider. Her crying is because she is reacting to a new environment that is completely different than your home, and will continue to be different even if you were to stay for an hour and then leave. As soon as you leave, she is going to be in that new environment.

I can see where a parent would think that them staying would help acclimate a child. In my experience the only thing it does is set up a false expectation that mom is going to stay at that new place with me. So the child gets used to the idea that the parent is going to stay in this new environment with them, and then once the parent leaves you are back at square one. Staying to help acclimate her, just creates a crutch, which then eventually has to be removed, and will result in the same crying as before.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:21 AM
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Honestly, I just re-read and you are only on day 3 at your current daycare ? As much as you are worried, you really just need to give it time. If I took a catalog of all my kids, most would have still been crying on their third day as we are still trying to understand what they want/are expecting. Think about the relationship you had when your first brought your baby home from the hospital. You spent time listening to her cries and trying to decipher what she wanted and needed. You have to let the daycare provider and the baby develop the same relationship. It really isn't abnormal. I sound like a broken record, but you have to give it time and patience and let the caregiver and the baby develop a relationship.

Like you described on day 3, how you came to get the baby because you knew she was crying. You need to let the provider meet the child's needs so that your child learns to trust her and bond with her. If you intervene, this won't happen.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:14 AM
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I agree... They need more time. And you need to stop meddling. I get that it's your baby but she'll never acclimate if you always come to the rescue. The provider will be anxious, you'll be anxious, baby will be anxious. Maybe try being happy and positive and talking about his fun daycare is and how happy you are and she'll see you're happy and she should be too! And once she gets the routine and the idea that you leave and come back than she'll be much happier. I had an 18 month old who cried for like 3wks and mom and Nana were so afraid to leave but an 8 month old who never cried and mom was very happy and not nervous. Babies feel your anxiety and unhappiness from you too.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:10 AM
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thank you for taking the time to read all that! I am so worried that she's going to start refusing bottles. If I don't have to go back to work, and could stay home, from your experience with similar kids would you say that it would be in her best interest to give her more time to get more comfortable with me being away? Perhaps leaving her now is just too soon? I'm worried that letting her CIO, so-to-speak, could be detrimental to her wellbeing since she is so young.
In my experience, it is harder for a toddler to adjust than an infant.....My mentor tells me that if a child hasn't adjusted in 12 weeks, they will not adjust....use that as a guideline.....give it some time and trust your provider.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:40 AM
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Wow. I have heard of parents asking to do this when transitioning a toddler after a move, but a new baby?

I have two things that I'd recommend you to research and consider....
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:54 AM
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You need to give it time. It takes time for a child of any age to feel comfortable in a new environment. And if you are apprehensive, as it certainly sounds like from your posts, they will pick up on that as well. I tell new parents that the first day is the easiest for the child and the hardest for the parent. The second and third days are often the hardest for the child. After that it will slowly get better. On average I tell parents it take 2 weeks for a child to settle into a new routine and feel comfortable. BUT that 2 weeks is if they are full time. Part time can take much longer.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:14 AM
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I wouldn't be able to provide services for your infant. I would be scared off because of your perception of her crying and your attribution as to why. The words you attach to it are subjective but, as you have learned in the few months you have been a parent, your perception becomes fact whether it is really true or not. Your perception leads you to believe she is one extreme to another... hysterical when with or been with others and perfectly calm and content with mama.

The stories you already have in your brief experience with child care are enough to ruin a provider if retold in an online review or recounted to the DHS via you or any person who hears your story and decides the provider needs DHS involvement.

I wouldn't touch this gig. I wouldn't allow a four hour interview for as many days as you deem necessary. Your hanging out to transition the baby is really you interviewing the provider. You call it transition but the provider will think it is you interviewing and you (the newbie parent) assessing the providers ability to do no cry care.

I keep thinking how in the heck did my granny who had eleven kids over twenty years produce such great and healthy kids. She not only had kid after kid but she worked a farm and supported them with her hands and back. She didn't spend a minute worrying about brain damage because of crying. Her worries were enough food to go around, laundry, money for a car, and clothing her brood. She had it way easier than you though. You spend your worry on one kids crying. She had tangible worry of basic survival.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:16 AM
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I agree with the others- it takes time. Staying for 4 hours would not help, in my opinion, as at 4 months she doesn't have a sense of time. You leaving right away versus after 4 hours would not make a difference to her. Give the provider time- I have a new DCG that is 13 months and never been in daycare before. She cried straight for almost a month. Wouldn't let my girls (who are very sweet natured and quiet) come near her or touch her (my DD who is 15 months would try to hug her when she cried). Fast forward 1 1/2 months, now she does great! Give it time . It's hard, but she will get used to it and form a bond with her provider if you let her!
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:19 AM
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because my kids can act up in the presence of "some" parents, and be perfectly fine in the presence of others, I would allow parents to stay depending on the outcome
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:30 AM
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Am I misunderstanding this, or is it a VERY part time young infant in a brand new (less than a week) daycare situation?

Give it time.

I recommend;
sending a tshirt or blanket that you have slept with for her to cuddle with (for your smell)

stop allowing her to sleep in her crib. OMG! That is dangerous and HORRIBLE for transitioning to daycare. A licensed provider cannot allow a child to sleep in a crib for any length of time.

Get her on a schedule at home, adjust her schedule to the daycare schedule as far as feeding and napping.

Do NOT co sleep, hold her during naps, rock her to sleep. Take the time to sleep train your child.

If you are breast feeding, make sure someone gives her a bottle at least daily.

Drop and leave. It is MUCH harder for any child when a parent lingers. I wouldn't be able to accommodate a parent staying, the other children in my care would freak out at a stranger present.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:45 AM
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I agree that it will take some time. However, the constant crying even at home reminds me of other things. Have you researched high need/spirited kids? Helped a lot w/ my son, as I'd never dealt with the issues and personality he brought.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:57 AM
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Am I misunderstanding this, or is it a VERY part time young infant in a brand new (less than a week) daycare situation?

Give it time.

I recommend;
sending a tshirt or blanket that you have slept with for her to cuddle with (for your smell)

stop allowing her to sleep in her crib. OMG! That is dangerous and HORRIBLE for transitioning to daycare. A licensed provider cannot allow a child to sleep in a crib for any length of time.

Get her on a schedule at home, adjust her schedule to the daycare schedule as far as feeding and napping.

Do NOT co sleep, hold her during naps, rock her to sleep. Take the time to sleep train your child.

If you are breast feeding, make sure someone gives her a bottle at least daily.

Drop and leave. It is MUCH harder for any child when a parent lingers. I wouldn't be able to accommodate a parent staying, the other children in my care would freak out at a stranger present.
I agree.
And daycarediva...I think you mean swing, not crib...
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:11 AM
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I wouldn't be able to provide services for your infant. I would be scared off because of your perception of her crying and your attribution as to why. The words you attach to it are subjective but, as you have learned in the few months you have been a parent, your perception becomes fact whether it is really true or not. Your perception leads you to believe she is one extreme to another... hysterical when with or been with others and perfectly calm and content with mama.

The stories you already have in your brief experience with child care are enough to ruin a provider if retold in an online review or recounted to the DHS via you or any person who hears your story and decides the provider needs DHS involvement.

I wouldn't touch this gig. I wouldn't allow a four hour interview for as many days as you deem necessary. Your hanging out to transition the baby is really you interviewing the provider. You call it transition but the provider will think it is you interviewing and you (the newbie parent) assessing the providers ability to do no cry care.

I keep thinking how in the heck did my granny who had eleven kids over twenty years produce such great and healthy kids. She not only had kid after kid but she worked a farm and supported them with her hands and back. She didn't spend a minute worrying about brain damage because of crying. Her worries were enough food to go around, laundry, money for a car, and clothing her brood. She had it way easier than you though. You spend your worry on one kids crying. She had tangible worry of basic survival.
Well said!
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:25 AM
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NannyDe is right.
You're perception of what is happening has now become your own truth. You feel that your daughter is being neglected at daycare and in your absence and you don't trust your provider to be able to move past that without your supervision. If that is how you feel, that is fine. Just own it. Quit your job and stay home with your infant. That choice is okay to make!

But be aware that transitioning at 6 months or a year almost always is harder than infant age. Babies and young toddlers are very aware of the change, much more so than infants. If you stay home, I suggest staying till 15 or 18 months when you child is ready to be more independent and able to move into group care a bit better.

I am reading between the lines here but it appears that what you really want by posting here is for people to support you decision to stay home and support the idea that your child is going to be damaged by crying and that your provider and your child will not be able to adjust to this scenario. I cannot support all those ideas because as a mother of four and an experienced daycare provider, experience tells me otherwise HOWEVER, I support your right to decide what is best for your family. If you dont want to wait out an adjustment period and you want the support to quit your job, here it is from me.

Lastly, you have the best scenario possible....a nanny for daycare cost. That is as good as it gets. You wont be able to find a better set up than that. And now that I know that your provider has no other kids in care, I think staying for half days is definitely a bad idea. Your infant will almost surely not benefit from this and it will be you that is trying to "interview" the provider and gain a comfort level during those times. It does not take two adults to care for one baby and do nothing else. Sounds horribly awkward for the provider. I cant imagine that she will take it any other way than a bad way BUT if you want to ask and she is okay with it, then by all means, try it. I just dont think it will change anything for you. I think you would sit in her house for a week or two and then quit your job anyway so that would be a waste of her time. I could be wrong, but I probably am not.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:33 AM
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NannyDe is right.
You're perception of what is happening has now become your own truth. You feel that your daughter is being neglected at daycare and in your absence and you don't trust your provider to be able to move past that without your supervision. If that is how you feel, that is fine. Just own it. Quit your job and stay home with your infant. That choice is okay to make!

But be aware that transitioning at 6 months or a year almost always is harder than infant age. Babies and young toddlers are very aware of the change, much more so than infants. If you stay home, I suggest staying till 15 or 18 months when you child is ready to be more independent and able to move into group care a bit better.

I am reading between the lines here but it appears that what you really want by posting here is for people to support you decision to stay home and support the idea that your child is going to be damaged by crying and that your provider and your child will not be able to adjust to this scenario. I cannot support all those ideas because as a mother of four and an experienced daycare provider, experience tells me otherwise HOWEVER, I support your right to decide what is best for your family. If you dont want to wait out an adjustment period and you want the support to quit your job, here it is from me.

Lastly, you have the best scenario possible....a nanny for daycare cost. That is as good as it gets. You wont be able to find a better set up than that. And now that I know that your provider has no other kids in care, I think staying for half days is definitely a bad idea. Your infant will almost surely not benefit from this and it will be you that is trying to "interview" the provider and gain a comfort level during those times. It does not take two adults to care for one baby and do nothing else. Sounds horribly awkward for the provider. I cant imagine that she will take it any other way than a bad way BUT if you want to ask and she is okay with it, then by all means, try it. I just dont think it will change anything for you. I think you would sit in her house for a week or two and then quit your job anyway so that would be a waste of her time. I could be wrong, but I probably am not.
That was my first thought too.... I think OP simply wants a group of experienced providers to tell her what she wants to hear.

I have NEVER heard of emotionally damaging an infant when it comes to crying.

I also do NOT believe that a 4 month old has the capabilities to suffer from separation anxiety.

I think OP WANTS to stay home and care for her own child but needs "permission" or some sort of logical reasoning to give her a push to make that decision.

I also think moving her from one provider to the next in such sort periods of time is MORE damaging to her emotionally than the crying.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:52 AM
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Think about the relationship you had when your first brought your baby home from the hospital. You spent time listening to her cries and trying to decipher what she wanted and needed. You have to let the daycare provider and the baby develop the same relationship. It really isn't abnormal. I sound like a broken record, but you have to give it time and patience and let the caregiver and the baby develop a relationship.
Trying to get to know my LO initially was a disaster!! HAHA! She did cry hysterically on occasion and I had no idea what she wanted, or if she even needed anything. It did take awhile to finally figure it out.

I appreciate the broken record reminders!
  #49  
Old 12-12-2013, 07:57 AM
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I agree... They need more time. And you need to stop meddling. I get that it's your baby but she'll never acclimate if you always come to the rescue. The provider will be anxious, you'll be anxious, baby will be anxious. Maybe try being happy and positive and talking about his fun daycare is and how happy you are and she'll see you're happy and she should be too! And once she gets the routine and the idea that you leave and come back than she'll be much happier. I had an 18 month old who cried for like 3wks and mom and Nana were so afraid to leave but an 8 month old who never cried and mom was very happy and not nervous. Babies feel your anxiety and unhappiness from you too.
I know, you're so right! I know my "rescue her" mentality is increasing the anxiety for everyone. I need to make up my mind whether I'm in or not. If I'm in I will start focusing more on the positives. Thanks!
  #50  
Old 12-12-2013, 07:57 AM
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That was my first thought too.... I think OP simply wants a group of experienced providers to tell her what she wants to hear.

I have NEVER heard of emotionally damaging an infant when it comes to crying.

I also do NOT believe that a 4 month old has the capabilities to suffer from separation anxiety.

I think OP WANTS to stay home and care for her own child but needs "permission" or some sort of logical reasoning to give her a push to make that decision.

I also think moving her from one provider to the next in such sort periods of time is MORE damaging to her emotionally than the crying.
Totally agree. If sounds like staying home is the best option for this parent.
  #51  
Old 12-12-2013, 07:58 AM
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I agree that it will take some time. However, the constant crying even at home reminds me of other things. Have you researched high need/spirited kids? Helped a lot w/ my son, as I'd never dealt with the issues and personality he brought.
No I haven't but I will. Thank you!
  #52  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:06 AM
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NannyDe is right.
You're perception of what is happening has now become your own truth. You feel that your daughter is being neglected at daycare and in your absence and you don't trust your provider to be able to move past that without your supervision. If that is how you feel, that is fine. Just own it. Quit your job and stay home with your infant. That choice is okay to make!

But be aware that transitioning at 6 months or a year almost always is harder than infant age. Babies and young toddlers are very aware of the change, much more so than infants. If you stay home, I suggest staying till 15 or 18 months when you child is ready to be more independent and able to move into group care a bit better.

I am reading between the lines here but it appears that what you really want by posting here is for people to support you decision to stay home and support the idea that your child is going to be damaged by crying and that your provider and your child will not be able to adjust to this scenario. I cannot support all those ideas because as a mother of four and an experienced daycare provider, experience tells me otherwise HOWEVER, I support your right to decide what is best for your family. If you dont want to wait out an adjustment period and you want the support to quit your job, here it is from me.

Lastly, you have the best scenario possible....a nanny for daycare cost. That is as good as it gets. You wont be able to find a better set up than that. And now that I know that your provider has no other kids in care, I think staying for half days is definitely a bad idea. Your infant will almost surely not benefit from this and it will be you that is trying to "interview" the provider and gain a comfort level during those times. It does not take two adults to care for one baby and do nothing else. Sounds horribly awkward for the provider. I cant imagine that she will take it any other way than a bad way BUT if you want to ask and she is okay with it, then by all means, try it. I just dont think it will change anything for you. I think you would sit in her house for a week or two and then quit your job anyway so that would be a waste of her time. I could be wrong, but I probably am not.
Buyer beware that this child care provider WILL take other children and most likely very soon. There's not enough money in one baby. This parent needs to realize that there will come a day very soon when the provider gets the next baby who needs four hour parental interviews and "teaching" for THAT baby to not cry. This baby will have to endure the provider doing another acclimation transition with a complete stranger parent hanging around for hours over days and the focus of the provider will shift from her no cry training to another babies no cry training so the provider can have money.

There's value in the newbie provider having this experience right out of the gate. For some providers there may be value to this but I think most by far would see it as a ridiculous amount of one to one parent care in a group setting. The newbie provider needs to work out what she will do when subjected to these kinds of requests as they will come often. The parent who is concerned about crying brain damage is becoming the majority. How they deal with "transition" to stave off the brain damage will be different with each parent. One thing for certain... the solution will ALWAYS be more. More one to one... more parent... more time. It won't translate into the provider having a smooth easy time as she gets to know the kid.

The provider also needs the experience of divesting a TON of prestart time and "transition" time and end up loosing the kid anyway because the one to one no cry care can't really be done in a group and the provider dissatisfaction for working SO hard for so little will rear it's head soon. Providers who consider doing this kind of upfront investment need to set basic pay rates to reflect the high probability that they will only have the child a short time after the parent interviewing and transitioning stops. They need to require a substantial upfront amount of money that will pay for the slot for the duration of how long it takes to fill a slot. They need at least a full MONTH of salary from the point where the "transition" time stops forward. That way they have some security of income to cover till the next no cry baby comes along. If she does it for free... meaning only getting care money for this level of parent time she will learn VERY quickly she did a ton of work for a few dollars an hour. That will sting.

More than half of my consulting work now is working with providers trying to manage attachment parents with no cry babies (no cry in fear of brain damage) , toddlers, and the preschooler who has been raised in it in their setting. I never in a million years thought I would have income coming in as a direct result of no cry parenting. Never thought I would make a dime off of it... but alas it is quite the money maker.
  #53  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:10 AM
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Yes, everyone is right! You need to give it time.
Babies cry!
She is adjusting to a new caregiver and environment.
It seems as if you WANT your child to have separation anxiety.
I would never let a DCP stay to make the adjustment "easier". It may be easier for YOU but trust me, it's only confusing and harder for your daughter.
I think your provider is amazing for sending you pics every hour.
Let your daughter and provider have time to bond.

Let us know what you end up doing. Good luck!
  #54  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:11 AM
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Honesty with yourself is required. What is it that you feel is best for your family? Honesty about what you feel is best for both you and your child. Honesty about the temperment of your child and the care you feel is best for her.

You have said she "She never does this at home. She almost never cries. If she wants something she kind of babbles in a very loud, whinny voice." yet have also said "She was VERY colicky when she was little. I listened to nothing but crying for months and I know every kind of cry she makes."

IF you want your child to be in care, then allow her and the provider time to adjust.
  #55  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:11 AM
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NannyDe is right.
You're perception of what is happening has now become your own truth. You feel that your daughter is being neglected at daycare and in your absence and you don't trust your provider to be able to move past that without your supervision. If that is how you feel, that is fine. Just own it. Quit your job and stay home with your infant. That choice is okay to make!
As has your perception of my situation now become your truth.

I never said I felt she was being neglected and I don't feel that way at all. It's not about trusting the provider, as I mentioned earlier. It's a difference in philosophies on how to acclimate one's child to a new environment. In an article I read it said staying with the child would be beneficial. Sensing that this might be offensive to some sensitive providers I came here looking for opinions on how that request might come across.
  #56  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:23 AM
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As has your perception of my situation now become your truth.

I never said I felt she was being neglected and I don't feel that way at all. It's not about trusting the provider, as I mentioned earlier. It's a difference in philosophies on how to acclimate one's child to a new environment. In an article I read it said staying with the child would be beneficial. Sensing that this might be offensive to some sensitive providers I came here looking for opinions on how that request might come across.
I don't think it's offensive to sensitive providers. I think that most providers who have been doing childcare for a long time, know that staying with a child only makes it harder for the child and the provider. If you are there to be with your child, how is she going to connect with the provider? Of course she will go to you if you are there. You are her mommy!
  #57  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:40 AM
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I haven't had time to read all of the responses but my 22 years experience doing home childcare tells me this: you have trained her that if she cries hard enough and long enough you will come and pick her up. She just needs more adjustment time and time to bond with the provider. In time she will learn to trust that the provider will and can meet her needs also. You will always be her preferred choice though and she will never want you to leave. You might try sending along a blanket from home with home smells on it for awhile.

Good luck!
  #58  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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I know, you're so right! I know my "rescue her" mentality is increasing the anxiety for everyone. I need to make up my mind whether I'm in or not. If I'm in I will start focusing more on the positives. Thanks!
I just wanted to let you know that I do sympathize with you.
It's hard to leave your baby. It's hard to know that they are with someone else and not you. It's hard when they cry, especially when they aren't with you. Sometimes, it can just be plain hard.

With that said, I've been on both sides. When I had my dd (10 years ago), I took her to a fcc part time, but not until she was 1. She didn't cry, and seemed to like it so it it was easy for me.
Then when she was 3, I took her to a center dc. I worked there so it was a little easier for me, but she did cry sometimes and it did break my heart, BUT I trusted the teacher and knew that I had to give it time and had to walk away when she cried, it was hard, but if I stayed it would have been worse. (I worked there, but tried to not let her see me unless it was time to go home).

But, during both times, I was in school for child development and had been and was working with children in a dc environment, and that combined with all my experiences working with families, I knew what to expect and what worked best, especially for the child's well being. Even though I hated to see my dd cry (I'm a huge softie), I knew that me being by her only made it worse.

Sorry, I'm trying to get my point across and it's dragging on....lol

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think that we, as providers, have the experience of working with children and their families, have seen many different scenario's of different family dynamic's (if that makes sense) and know the in's and out's of child development (not all providers, but most). It's easy for us to say do this and do that, because we have been there and done that.

But you as parents, (many) do not have the experience working with kids in a dc/fcc environment. It's really hard for some to see what we see because you haven't been there or done that. I'm not in any way putting anyone down, just saying that it can be really hard for parents to take our advice and be comfortable with it when they have no experience in this field outside of their own children. Just like I probably wouldn't know what to do with your job...

All I can say is take the advice you get on here and do what YOU feel is best.

Gosh....I hope this makes sense. I have a hard time getting my point across, I know what I want to say, just not how to say it! And I think it's awesome that you came on here to get advice, and from your responses, are taking or looking into it!

Good luck!
  #59  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:49 AM
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As has your perception of my situation now become your truth.

I never said I felt she was being neglected and I don't feel that way at all. It's not about trusting the provider, as I mentioned earlier. It's a difference in philosophies on how to acclimate one's child to a new environment. In an article I read it said staying with the child would be beneficial. Sensing that this might be offensive to some sensitive providers I came here looking for opinions on how that request might come across.
It's not offensive. It's just a bunch of work that most likely won't work out to make the provider money over time.

Your request isn't unusual. Your perception of your baby is VERY VERY common. Your solutions are common.

This aint our first time to this rodeo. I wish newbie parents could understand that what they come up with and attribute to their child we have seen a ZILLION times. It's not unique. It's not special. It's not child specific.

We have had the same words you use come to our ears. We have had the same facial expressions you use to convey your worry. We have had many many requests to do the parent in order to have the money to do the kid.

Your face looks the same.
Your voice inflection is the same.
Your analysis is the same.
Your child is the same.

It's not new. Nothing you have said hasn't come knocking at our door.

It's WORK. The question you should be asking is if this amount of WORK for the provider is worth the money you are paying her. You should ask what kind of compensation should you be offering to her that is above the child care rate to compensate her for doing you and your kid at this level.

It's not about you or what you think your kid needs. It's about WORK and time. Work and time that will most likely end the way it ended with your previous providers.

No offense to you OP though. Please don't take me wrong. I'm all for picking the kind of parenting you want for your kid. She's your kid so do as you wish. I've been at this long enough to know there are a zillion right ways to raise a kid. My only interest is how does that work in group care and what cost to the provider to fetter through no cry parenting to find the ones who will stay. Your chances of staying are so slim. Your perception is dangerous to a providers long term success. It just is what it is. You could really damage someone's future with your perceptions if you decided to spread the word.
  #60  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:50 AM
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I agree.
And daycarediva...I think you mean swing, not crib...
yes, swing.
  #61  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:05 AM
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Buyer beware that this child care provider WILL take other children and most likely very soon. There's not enough money in one baby. This parent needs to realize that there will come a day very soon when the provider gets the next baby who needs four hour parental interviews and "teaching" for THAT baby to not cry. This baby will have to endure the provider doing another acclimation transition with a complete stranger parent hanging around for hours over days and the focus of the provider will shift from her no cry training to another babies no cry training so the provider can have money.

There's value in the newbie provider having this experience right out of the gate. For some providers there may be value to this but I think most by far would see it as a ridiculous amount of one to one parent care in a group setting. The newbie provider needs to work out what she will do when subjected to these kinds of requests as they will come often. The parent who is concerned about crying brain damage is becoming the majority. How they deal with "transition" to stave off the brain damage will be different with each parent. One thing for certain... the solution will ALWAYS be more. More one to one... more parent... more time. It won't translate into the provider having a smooth easy time as she gets to know the kid.

The provider also needs the experience of divesting a TON of prestart time and "transition" time and end up loosing the kid anyway because the one to one no cry care can't really be done in a group and the provider dissatisfaction for working SO hard for so little will rear it's head soon. Providers who consider doing this kind of upfront investment need to set basic pay rates to reflect the high probability that they will only have the child a short time after the parent interviewing and transitioning stops. They need to require a substantial upfront amount of money that will pay for the slot for the duration of how long it takes to fill a slot. They need at least a full MONTH of salary from the point where the "transition" time stops forward. That way they have some security of income to cover till the next no cry baby comes along. If she does it for free... meaning only getting care money for this level of parent time she will learn VERY quickly she did a ton of work for a few dollars an hour. That will sting.

More than half of my consulting work now is working with providers trying to manage attachment parents with no cry babies (no cry in fear of brain damage) , toddlers, and the preschooler who has been raised in it in their setting. I never in a million years thought I would have income coming in as a direct result of no cry parenting. Never thought I would make a dime off of it... but alas it is quite the money maker.
I am not at all saying that I would offer or support this service from a provider perspective. My point was, this mom has a great deal for now. A provider that has ALL day to transition and care for one baby. Baby will be good and comfy by the time another child is added. Many parents would kill for that scenario so again, this is as good as it gets from the parent perspective. If the OP does not think this is good enough, nothing ever will be good enough and mom should just own that and stay home.
  #62  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:10 AM
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As has your perception of my situation now become your truth.

I never said I felt she was being neglected and I don't feel that way at all. It's not about trusting the provider, as I mentioned earlier. It's a difference in philosophies on how to acclimate one's child to a new environment. In an article I read it said staying with the child would be beneficial. Sensing that this might be offensive to some sensitive providers I came here looking for opinions on how that request might come across.
Feel free to link that article. I would love to see if it references reliable sources, was written by someone with many years of childcare and child development, etc, etc.

You are talking about crying being detrimental to your child so the natural implication because she is crying, is that you feel the current daycare situation is neglectful to her needs. Its fine if you feel that way.

I will say that your back and forth on the facts as you see them are conflicting and it appears that either you are editing posts or perhaps I am not seeing everything you are posting.

Anyway, I stand by my statements. I find it very telling that you post and highlight ONE thing I said that you did not like yet you have not commented on the rest of my very thorough post. It does not look like you want a solution. It looks like you want people to agree with you.
  #63  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:13 AM
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You have said she "She never does this at home. She almost never cries. If she wants something she kind of babbles in a very loud, whinny voice." yet have also said "She was VERY colicky when she was little. I listened to nothing but crying for months and I know every kind of cry she makes."
Sorry for all the confusion! I meant to say that she hasnt really cried in almost two months.
  #64  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:14 AM
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I think you really have only two choices:

#1 Stay home and raise/care for your own child.

#2 Get a nanny

With either choice, your child will get the level of care that you are seeking.

You will also get to dictate EXACTLY how your child is cared for.

Sounds like it's a win-win solution for your DD, you and whatever child care provider you are currently using.

fwiw~ I'm not trying to be snarky..... I just don't see any other solution working. Your levels of expectation is just not something a group family provider can manage.
  #65  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:22 AM
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I am not at all saying that I would offer or support this service from a provider perspective. My point was, this mom has a great deal for now. A provider that has ALL day to transition and care for one baby. Baby will be good and comfy by the time another child is added. Many parents would kill for that scenario so again, this is as good as it gets from the parent perspective. If the OP does not think this is good enough, nothing ever will be good enough and mom should just own that and stay home.
Roger on that. This is as good as it gets.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:35 AM
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I just wanted to let you know that I do sympathize with you.
It's hard to leave your baby. It's hard to know that they are with someone else and not you. It's hard when they cry, especially when they aren't with you. Sometimes, it can just be plain hard.

With that said, I've been on both sides. When I had my dd (10 years ago), I took her to a fcc part time, but not until she was 1. She didn't cry, and seemed to like it so it it was easy for me.
Then when she was 3, I took her to a center dc. I worked there so it was a little easier for me, but she did cry sometimes and it did break my heart, BUT I trusted the teacher and knew that I had to give it time and had to walk away when she cried, it was hard, but if I stayed it would have been worse. (I worked there, but tried to not let her see me unless it was time to go home).

But, during both times, I was in school for child development and had been and was working with children in a dc environment, and that combined with all my experiences working with families, I knew what to expect and what worked best, especially for the child's well being. Even though I hated to see my dd cry (I'm a huge softie), I knew that me being by her only made it worse.

Sorry, I'm trying to get my point across and it's dragging on....lol

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think that we, as providers, have the experience of working with children and their families, have seen many different scenario's of different family dynamic's (if that makes sense) and know the in's and out's of child development (not all providers, but most). It's easy for us to say do this and do that, because we have been there and done that.

But you as parents, (many) do not have the experience working with kids in a dc/fcc environment. It's really hard for some to see what we see because you haven't been there or done that. I'm not in any way putting anyone down, just saying that it can be really hard for parents to take our advice and be comfortable with it when they have no experience in this field outside of their own children. Just like I probably wouldn't know what to do with your job...

All I can say is take the advice you get on here and do what YOU feel is best.

Gosh....I hope this makes sense. I have a hard time getting my point across, I know what I want to say, just not how to say it! And I think it's awesome that you came on here to get advice, and from your responses, are taking or looking into it!

Good luck!
Thank you! It has been insanely hard. I think since she was so colicky when she was little I developed a really strong bond with her.

It seems there are a few providers here that say they'd be OK with my staying. And then a couple who seem to be freaking out. So I guess there's a wide range. I think since my provider is new she might not freak out; doesn't have all the buildup from years of dealing with difficult parents. But I can see how it would come off as a slight and I don't want to diminish her confidence with my LO. And as you pointed out, there is the element of my "rescuer" mentality that might create too much anxiety while I'm there which wouldn't help anything. Eh! I need to let her know by today whether LO is coming tomorrow or not. Argh! There's so much to consider.
  #67  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:49 AM
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I had a FTM who was very paranoid about her daughter, granted she lost her first son at birth, I could understand and did my best to care for her as I would my own. I had an 8 month old and she was 6mos old. Of course she was having a hard time the first week away from mom. But she ate, slept and played and did fine. Mom didn't. She was a wreck and it made it hard for me. I remember getting an email one night during the 2nd week that she noticed her baby's hair was a little matted and she had dried tears on her face like she had been left to cry for a period of time. She was having a hard time understanding how I could provide care for 2 babies. A) even before watching her we went on a walk and she cried for 85% of our walk. So crying is nothing NEW for this baby. B) she cried when I changed her diaper, she cried when she was in her carseat too long, she cried often. So even if was playing with her, interacting with her, etc. she cried. We walked to and from school, she cried. C) perhaps she was crying on the ride home? How could she determine exactly "when" this crying occurred?
I wrote her back and explained that there ARE two babies in my care and eventually there will be more. There will be times that she cries whether it's when she wakes up from a nap, is unhappy in the stroller, unhappy in the high chair, etc. I do my very best to keep her happy through the day but she WILL cry as that's her only means of communication. I would never neglect her baby and allow her to lay "crying for a period of time" aside from when I have to. I do have to use the bathroom throughout the day, I also have to change diapers and wash my hands. If she cries during that time it's not because I'm neglecting her. I realized then that this wasn't working out and told her it may be best to find a nanny who will be devoted to ONLY her baby. Because even my situation was as close to a nanny as you could get for a home daycare only having one other baby there. She of course back stepped that she didn't think I was neglecting her and reacted too quickly and didn't think about the implications of what she said. She apologized and said she was more than happy with our situation. Well after the 2wk trial period I thought we were doing great but she put in her 2wks notices and said she's staying home with her. She figured out she was making $2/hr less than she thought by calculating her salary by 52 not her paycheck by 80hrs or something and it wasn't worth it after daycare expenses and how much time she's away from her. For them that was the best solution. She was never going to be happy with the level of care anyone else but what she provided. I ended up getting a baby the same age and she started watching another baby for a friend. It's funny how when the tables were turned she managed to care for 2 babies but my care for 2 babies with 15yrs more experience was somehow inadequate. LOL
Anyway, my point is daycare is not for everyone!
  #68  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:52 AM
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Thank you! It has been insanely hard. I think since she was so colicky when she was little I developed a really strong bond with her.

It seems there are a few providers here that say they'd be OK with my staying. And then a couple who seem to be freaking out. So I guess there's a wide range. I think since my provider is new she might not freak out; doesn't have all the buildup from years of dealing with difficult parents. But I can see how it would come off as a slight and I don't want to diminish her confidence with my LO. And as you pointed out, there is the element of my "rescuer" mentality that might create too much anxiety while I'm there which wouldn't help anything. Eh! I need to let her know by today whether LO is coming tomorrow or not. Argh! There's so much to consider.

But the point is how will the provider ever learn to care for your baby if you're there? If you don't trust her than don't choose her. I've never had anyone stay for 4hrs when leaving their baby here. That's usually done during the interview process and maybe a couple hours here and there before starting FT, but never had anyone stay 4hrs. The reason the provider is ok with it is probably because she only has her child to care for. If she had other children it may not be ok as I don't know how many parents want random strangers around their kids all day plus for liability reasons many people wouldn't allow it.
  #69  
Old 12-12-2013, 10:57 AM
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It's not offensive. It's just a bunch of work that most likely won't work out to make the provider money over time.

Your request isn't unusual. Your perception of your baby is VERY VERY common. Your solutions are common.

This aint our first time to this rodeo. I wish newbie parents could understand that what they come up with and attribute to their child we have seen a ZILLION times. It's not unique. It's not special. It's not child specific.

We have had the same words you use come to our ears. We have had the same facial expressions you use to convey your worry. We have had many many requests to do the parent in order to have the money to do the kid.

Your face looks the same.
Your voice inflection is the same.
Your analysis is the same.
Your child is the same.

It's not new. Nothing you have said hasn't come knocking at our door.

It's WORK. The question you should be asking is if this amount of WORK for the provider is worth the money you are paying her. You should ask what kind of compensation should you be offering to her that is above the child care rate to compensate her for doing you and your kid at this level.

It's not about you or what you think your kid needs. It's about WORK and time. Work and time that will most likely end the way it ended with your previous providers.

No offense to you OP though. Please don't take me wrong. I'm all for picking the kind of parenting you want for your kid. She's your kid so do as you wish. I've been at this long enough to know there are a zillion right ways to raise a kid. My only interest is how does that work in group care and what cost to the provider to fetter through no cry parenting to find the ones who will stay. Your chances of staying are so slim. Your perception is dangerous to a providers long term success. It just is what it is. You could really damage someone's future with your perceptions if you decided to spread the word.
You sound burnt out I wouldn't work in childcare because it seems really difficult. I quit working in sales because I couldn't stand the people! I understand how exhausting it is and I'm only sorry that people have to worry so much about money that they subject themselves to unwanted situations. I don't mean to gloat but I am so very fortunate in that I do what I love and I don't give a thought to the money. I don't have to work. I only wish I could find a daycare provider who was of that state of mind. My current provider also seems to be in dire need of money which is unfortunate. Yes I know what you're thinking, if they didn't have to worry about money they wouldn't put up with parents like me! I know, I know. I'm sorry your experience has been so unpleasant. But there have been some very nice responses on here from seasoned providers so I have to believe there are still those who love their job and don't necessarily do it just for the money.
  #70  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:02 AM
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thank you for taking the time to read all that! I am so worried that she's going to start refusing bottles. If I don't have to go back to work, and could stay home, from your experience with similar kids would you say that it would be in her best interest to give her more time to get more comfortable with me being away? Perhaps leaving her now is just too soon? I'm worried that letting her CIO, so-to-speak, could be detrimental to her wellbeing since she is so young.
Ok I am very confused. You need care 2 times a week for 4 hours each so 8 hours total. Even if she isn't drinking a bottle for provider.. she can go 4 hours. I have had many kidos that started out not drinking as much for me and waiting for mom.
If your comfortable with the provider you have chosen and she is not complaining about your child crying I would let the two of them figure out what works for them.
If I am reading this right 2 days a week, so she has been there 2 1/2 weeks. With the 2 days it will take her a while to figure out the pattern! Children need lots of repetition to figure out what is going on.
Instead of staying, I might drop her off for an hour and a half and then pick up. Work up to the 4 hours.
As a provider I could not accommodate you staying for 4 hours!
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:07 AM
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But the point is how will the provider ever learn to care for your baby if you're there? If you don't trust her than don't choose her. I've never had anyone stay for 4hrs when leaving their baby here. That's usually done during the interview process and maybe a couple hours here and there before starting FT, but never had anyone stay 4hrs. The reason the provider is ok with it is probably because she only has her child to care for. If she had other children it may not be ok as I don't know how many parents want random strangers around their kids all day plus for liability reasons many people wouldn't allow it.
I never considered it not trusting someone; just considered it training someone on how to help my lo. I've never started a job without training even if it was just to train me on that company's policy. I don't mean to say that a seasoned provider would need training per se. I probably insulted someone again. lol. But there are subtleties for my lo that I thought would be easier if I were there. I really actually thought it would make it easier for the provider. But I can see how that was a misconception. Although my current provider was very receptive to my being there a couple hours and I know she was not slighted in the least. There aren't any other kids there, though, and I can see how it would be difficult with other kids there.
  #72  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:10 AM
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Thank you! It has been insanely hard. I think since she was so colicky when she was little I developed a really strong bond with her.

It seems there are a few providers here that say they'd be OK with my staying. And then a couple who seem to be freaking out. So I guess there's a wide range. I think since my provider is new she might not freak out; doesn't have all the buildup from years of dealing with difficult parents. But I can see how it would come off as a slight and I don't want to diminish her confidence with my LO. And as you pointed out, there is the element of my "rescuer" mentality that might create too much anxiety while I'm there which wouldn't help anything. Eh! I need to let her know by today whether LO is coming tomorrow or not. Argh! There's so much to consider.
Maybe you could just talk to your provider and see what she thinks, then make your decision. Like you said, some providers wouldn't mind and some would. Everyone has their own opinion so do what you think is right.
But remember, if your baby knows you are there, it's totally a total different situation than if you wouldn't be there, there's no way around that.

I honestly will admit that I spoil (to a certain extent) my ds, (he is 1) despite everything I know from studying (I have a degree in child dev.) and all the experience I have, and from reading on here and other internet stuff, BUT he is here with me and I'm the one that has to deal with what happens because I do spoil him. And by spoil, I don't mean that I let him get away with everything, because I don't do that, but I spoil him in an affectionate way (if that makes sense). If I want to rock him to sleep for some one on one, I will, things like that. But then again, he is here with me, other people do not have to rock him because I do-just an example.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:10 AM
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Ok I am very confused. You need care 2 times a week for 4 hours each so 8 hours total. Even if she isn't drinking a bottle for provider.. she can go 4 hours. I have had many kidos that started out not drinking as much for me and waiting for mom.
If your comfortable with the provider you have chosen and she is not complaining about your child crying I would let the two of them figure out what works for them.
If I am reading this right 2 days a week, so she has been there 2 1/2 weeks. With the 2 days it will take her a while to figure out the pattern! Children need lots of repetition to figure out what is going on.
Instead of staying, I might drop her off for an hour and a half and then pick up. Work up to the 4 hours.
As a provider I could not accommodate you staying for 4 hours!
She is very part time right now but I'm going to gradually increase her time there until she goes every day, full time. I have until mid January to get her to full time.
  #74  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:24 AM
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Feel free to link that article. I would love to see if it references reliable sources, was written by someone with many years of childcare and child development, etc, etc.

Yes Please link that article you read. I have never heard of anyone saying that it would be easier to transition a child that way.
I would love to read this article! New info is always good!
  #75  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:28 AM
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One article suggested that I stay with her and get her used to the new environment and then gradually cut back on the amount of time that I'm there.
Sorry I quoted the wrong person - but you mentioned in your original post that you read an article ^^^ Can you post the link?
  #76  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:31 AM
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You sound burnt out I wouldn't work in childcare because it seems really difficult. I quit working in sales because I couldn't stand the people! I understand how exhausting it is and I'm only sorry that people have to worry so much about money that they subject themselves to unwanted situations. I don't mean to gloat but I am so very fortunate in that I do what I love and I don't give a thought to the money. I don't have to work. I only wish I could find a daycare provider who was of that state of mind. My current provider also seems to be in dire need of money which is unfortunate. Yes I know what you're thinking, if they didn't have to worry about money they wouldn't put up with parents like me! I know, I know. I'm sorry your experience has been so unpleasant. But there have been some very nice responses on here from seasoned providers so I have to believe there are still those who love their job and don't necessarily do it just for the money.
Whenever women talk about money, especially when it comes to the care of children, there is always the perception that there is some kind of emotional problem. That makes me LAUGH my arse off.

Just because we are talking about the WORK and BUSINESS of taking care of kids it does NOT mean we can't talk about MONEY every step of the way. It's OKAY to talk about MONEY. It's okay to associate the WORK and TIME of this business directly about MONEY. It's done in every single other child related business.

Every single piece of equipment, piece of clothing, bib, pacifier, bottle, sheet, crib, car seat.... every single good that is related to children there are legions of people who talk about MONEY as the product is developed, manufactured, shipped, and sold.

There's nobody at Graco telling them that they shouldn't discuss MONEY because the products they sell are for the BAYYYYBEEES. If Eddie Bauer didn't have MONEY discussions they wouldn't be able to sell car seats.

Why can't we? Why are we the ONE group who can't put MONEY into the conversation as THE topic that must be dealt with FIRST before anything else works? Every other business does that serves kids.

Oh I know... it's because we are a bunch of WOMEN and we should love first then take whatever scraps of money that is sent our way to feed, clothe, and house OUR kids.

I'm not burnt out. I make a GREAT living. I don't allow emotional words like "burnt out" and "it's not about the money" phase me. Just like I said before... we have heard it ALL before. You have the SAME words. You have the SAME inflection. You have the SAME message. You haven't come up with a single phrase or idea that hasn't been jammed down our throats our entire career. We've heard it all and it is just that... WORDS.

When you want to actually TALK money then we can explain money. If you want us to do it for love... well you have to find somebody who is selling something else. I have the pleasure to make money and love. I know better than to get into something where I don't make money to cause me not to love my work. I get paid a fair wage in all my endeavors. My clients are business folks too... they get money. They may not understand day care money when they come to me but they do by the third interview. They want me to be prosperous. They want me to be happy. I'm happy being prosperous even though I'm a mere girl.
  #77  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:35 AM
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I never considered it not trusting someone; just considered it training someone on how to help my lo. I've never started a job without training even if it was just to train me on that company's policy. I don't mean to say that a seasoned provider would need training per se. I probably insulted someone again. lol. But there are subtleties for my lo that I thought would be easier if I were there. I really actually thought it would make it easier for the provider. But I can see how that was a misconception. Although my current provider was very receptive to my being there a couple hours and I know she was not slighted in the least. There aren't any other kids there, though, and I can see how it would be difficult with other kids there.
Hey if your provider is up to it... go for it. Bring her a big box of special treats and a gourmet coffee when it's time. Show her you dig what she has done because you know most wouldn't.

Is this your first kid?
  #78  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:43 AM
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thank you for taking the time to read all that! I am so worried that she's going to start refusing bottles. If I don't have to go back to work, and could stay home, from your experience with similar kids would you say that it would be in her best interest to give her more time to get more comfortable with me being away? Perhaps leaving her now is just too soon? I'm worried that letting her CIO, so-to-speak, could be detrimental to her wellbeing since she is so young.
I think what you really want to hear is "yes, you should stay home with your child".

It sounds like that is what you really want. Maybe it'd be a financial struggle, maybe your SO doesn't support it, maybe you feel like people will judge you for not going back to your PhD. program.

I think that you just really need to decide if that's what's really going on?

Everyone has pretty much said give it more time. I'd agree. Sit down with your provider and let her know you are freaking out, and you need her to help you through this.

The crying itself WILL NOT hurt your child. She knows she is loved, because you show her that every day. But, a child who cries a lot and a mother who worries constantly are a major stressor for a provider. You don't want a stressed-out provider. So, talk to her. Make her promise that if she ever feels overwhelmed, she will call you. THEN you can come and rescue her (and baby). Otherwise, she's handling it, and your LO will be OK!

That, or scratch the whole thing and quit your job or school for a while.

By the way, every one of my dcm's has left here crying their first day back at work, and have been in tears the first few weeks at their jobs. You're not weird in this! I was there once myself....23 1/2 years ago!
  #79  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:46 AM
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You sound burnt out I wouldn't work in childcare because it seems really difficult.
That was kind of rude.
It isnt the children that makes this job hard or difficult. It's parents like you that make it so hard. Unrealistic expectations and wanting individualized attention.

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there have been some very nice responses on here from seasoned providers so I have to believe there are still those who love their job and don't necessarily do it just for the money.
Everyone does this for money.. I dont know a single working person that doesnt. If they say they do something just for the love of it with no money involved, they would do it for free.

Loving the job helps but dont assume that is the only reason providers open their homes and hearts to others. It's the money plain and simple.

When there is no money involved it's called a hobby.
  #80  
Old 12-12-2013, 11:46 AM
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Whenever women talk about money, especially when it comes to the care of children, there is always the perception that there is some kind of emotional problem. That makes me LAUGH my arse off.

Just because we are talking about the WORK and BUSINESS of taking care of kids it does NOT mean we can't talk about MONEY every step of the way. It's OKAY to talk about MONEY. It's okay to associate the WORK and TIME of this business directly about MONEY. It's done in every single other child related business.

Every single piece of equipment, piece of clothing, bib, pacifier, bottle, sheet, crib, car seat.... every single good that is related to children there are legions of people who talk about MONEY as the product is developed, manufactured, shipped, and sold.

There's nobody at Graco telling them that they shouldn't discuss MONEY because the products they sell are for the BAYYYYBEEES. If Eddie Bauer didn't have MONEY discussions they wouldn't be able to sell car seats.

Why can't we? Why are we the ONE group who can't put MONEY into the conversation as THE topic that must be dealt with FIRST before anything else works? Every other business does that serves kids.

Oh I know... it's because we are a bunch of WOMEN and we should love first then take whatever scraps of money that is sent our way to feed, clothe, and house OUR kids.

I'm not burnt out. I make a GREAT living. I don't allow emotional words like "burnt out" and "it's not about the money" phase me. Just like I said before... we have heard it ALL before. You have the SAME words. You have the SAME inflection. You have the SAME message. You haven't come up with a single phrase or idea that hasn't been jammed down our throats our entire career. We've heard it all and it is just that... WORDS.

When you want to actually TALK money then we can explain money. If you want us to do it for love... well you have to find somebody who is selling something else. I have the pleasure to make money and love. I know better than to get into something where I don't make money to cause me not to love my work. I get paid a fair wage in all my endeavors. My clients are business folks too... they get money. They may not understand day care money when they come to me but they do by the third interview. They want me to be prosperous. They want me to be happy. I'm happy being prosperous even though I'm a mere girl.
But you DO sound burnt out :/ Maybe that's not the correct phrase. You sound like you are "over it." Maybe that's just how you come across in writing but you can't blame someone for coming to that conclusion when they are just reading posts on a forum.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:52 AM
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I don't think Nan is burnt out. I think she is realistic. I also think she eliminates the fluff when she posts.

That often makes her words appear harsh but when you really stop and think about what she is saying (not focusing on how she says it) her posts/words make ALOT of sense and more often than not, it's the truth.

A truth that many of us don't see yet because we don't have the years of experience.

A truth that many of us don't see or refuse to see because we are held financially hostage by DCP's or because the income or pleasing parents is more important than the truth.
  #82  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:05 PM
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But you DO sound burnt out :/ Maybe that's not the correct phrase. You sound like you are "over it." Maybe that's just how you come across in writing but you can't blame someone for coming to that conclusion when they are just reading posts on a forum.
I can tell you that "burnt out" or "over it" are pretty much the polar opposites of Nan's experience. If you get a chance, look on Daycare.com's main page and read some of her blogs. It's a different perspective than you get from forum answers.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:16 PM
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I don't think she is burnt out, either. I think she is OVER parents attempting to dictate her time and resources and tell her how she should run her business. I think she is blunt enough to say it how it is, without sugar coating it and fluffing it up. But burnt out, I don't think so.

Honestly, the kids do NOT wear me out. I can DO kids. I like kids. I LOVE my job.

The parents wear me out. Day in, day out, failing to do their job and then attempting to transfer that issue on to me. "Joe wouldn't go to bed last night so Joe will need an early nap." Well, I have 5 other kids who do NOT need an early nap. That will NOT work for me. kwim? Not bringing supplies so that I can do MY job with their child. Having to send home newsletters that require a signature and date because grown adults don't have an idea what 'acceptable clothing for outdoor play' means without a friggin checklist? Dope and drop? Rudeness and disrespect? The entire generation of NON parenting and MY CHILD CAN NEVER CRY. It isn't realistic and if you WANT individual and special for your child....stay home or get a nanny. Individual and special to NOT equate to group care.
  #84  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:18 PM
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She is very part time right now but I'm going to gradually increase her time there until she goes every day, full time. I have until mid January to get her to full time.
I kind of get the feeling that is you that is having a problem leaving your baby which is very understandable. I think a four month old baby would adjust just fine after a bit.

My first parent ever (18 years ago), wanted to come a half hour earlier than she needed too. I wasn't sure how it would work out but it worked out fine. I wouldn't do 4 hours though. That just seems like it is unnecessary.

Good luck!

Laurel
  #85  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:34 PM
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How would I feel if a parent suggested this to me?
I guess I would feel a little like I wasn't trusted. Also I would feel like this would be a difficult parent to deal with and would have to tell her that is not possible. Honestly after over 10 years in daycare, I have never heard such a proposition. I have had a couple want to come on the first day and spend like a half hour, but even then, I limit it to maybe 10 minutes because quite frankly a quick kiss and good-bye and leaving is the best.

It becomes harder for you hanging around, then your child will pick up on that, plus makes it harder for them because they need to experience you leaving and coming back everyday to 'get it.' If you're hanging out with your lg, she is not going to understand that you will still be leaving her but are staying with her for a short time.

Like the others have said, at 4 months I don't think it is separation anxiety, it is the new environment. You have to give it time and you have to let the provider deal with it. She needs to be able to take care of her and learn her cries and meet her needs so baby can trust her and the new environment. She may stop crying when you pick her up, because you are familiar and you are momma. Only 3 days at a new place is definitely not enough time.

I also wouldn't go for the suggestion of hanging out for 4 hours because that is almost half my day and would be too disruptive for our routine because of having a stranger here means the children will be disruptive.

If you have picked your provider and believe she has the qualifications to handle this, then you have to let her do it. You can't get into a pattern of rescuing baby (now or later) whenever she cries. Your little girl, as long as her needs are met, needs to be able to learn to accept the new provider and environment and if that takes a little crying until she does, then it's ok. She's not hurt and it's not going to cause damage to her, it's just new.

Give it some weeks and keep open communication with the provider. Leave something at the daycare that has your scent (usually a shirt) and try to keep her routine the same between both places and it will be ok.
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  #86  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:35 PM
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I don't think she is burnt out, either. I think she is OVER parents attempting to dictate her time and resources and tell her how she should run her business. I think she is blunt enough to say it how it is, without sugar coating it and fluffing it up. But burnt out, I don't think so.

Honestly, the kids do NOT wear me out. I can DO kids. I like kids. I LOVE my job.

The parents wear me out. Day in, day out, failing to do their job and then attempting to transfer that issue on to me. "Joe wouldn't go to bed last night so Joe will need an early nap." Well, I have 5 other kids who do NOT need an early nap. That will NOT work for me. kwim? Not bringing supplies so that I can do MY job with their child. Having to send home newsletters that require a signature and date because grown adults don't have an idea what 'acceptable clothing for outdoor play' means without a friggin checklist? Dope and drop? Rudeness and disrespect? The entire generation of NON parenting and MY CHILD CAN NEVER CRY. It isn't realistic and if you WANT individual and special for your child....stay home or get a nanny. Individual and special to NOT equate to group care.
These things happen now and again but I can't imagine putting up with that day in and day out. I couldn't do it if I had a lot of parents like that. I guess I've been pretty lucky. I've had a few doozies but not all doozies all the time. In fact, the majority have been very good over an 18 year span.

Laurel
  #87  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:43 PM
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These things happen now and again but I can't imagine putting up with that day in and day out. I couldn't do it if I had a lot of parents like that. I guess I've been pretty lucky. I've had a few doozies but not all doozies all the time. In fact, the majority have been very good over an 18 year span.

Laurel
I moved from a low-middle income area to an upper middle class area. It was good financially, but terrible from the type of parents I get. I deal with parent issues on an almost DAILY basis.

Today a dck came in with a half eaten candy bar Mom 'couldn't get away from him' and one came with pjs because she 'wouldn't get dressed' and one was a dope and drop! Seriously!
  #88  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:49 PM
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But you DO sound burnt out :/ Maybe that's not the correct phrase. You sound like you are "over it." Maybe that's just how you come across in writing but you can't blame someone for coming to that conclusion when they are just reading posts on a forum.
Then consider me "burnt out" or "over it" too. I guess that's what you get for telling it like it is.

Pertaining to the money aspect: I do ANY type of job for the MONEY. My family needs money to survive and I am not ashamed to provide for them. I love kids but I am not going to miss payments on my car or house or my sons braces just to care for the two that I have. That's why I'm closing up shop and doing other work for a while. It's for the :GASP: money
  #89  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:54 PM
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I started my 4 month old LG at a new home daycare last week. The home daycare provider is new and has no other kids except her own 2 year old daughter. My LG went a couple of days for four hours each day and it went well. No crying. Today, however, she cried hysterically. Of course it broke my heart. I'm trying to make this transition as easy as possible and read some articles on how to help infants deal with the separation. One article suggested that I stay with her and get her used to the new environment and then gradually cut back on the amount of time that I'm there. I would love to do this. I would like to suggest to the provider that my LG start going full time but that I would stay with her for four hours each day until I have to start work. I will, of course, still pay full price. I wouldn't be able to gradually wean off time as there's only a few weeks until I have to start back to work.

As providers, how would you feel if a parent suggested this to you?
This posting is a big joke and a sign of the times: No parenting skills...
  #90  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:57 PM
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You sound burnt out But there have been some very nice responses on here from seasoned providers so I have to believe there are still those who love their job and don't necessarily do it just for the money.
I don't do it just for the money, BUT this is a BUSINESS....and I treat it as such...In FCC, you have to create benefits for yourself. NO matter the career path chosen, we all need to have a purpose. FCC Providers have a vast amount of knowledge when it comes to the importance of early childhood...but along with quality early childhood experiences is a child care provider that believes in herself and the program she offers clients....SO why are quality FCC child care providers constantly on the stand defending themselves?
  #91  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:57 PM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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Originally Posted by CedarCreek View Post
Then consider me "burnt out" or "over it" too. I guess that's what you get for telling it like it is.

Pertaining to the money aspect: I do ANY type of job for the MONEY. My family needs money to survive and I am not ashamed to provide for them. I love kids but I am not going to miss payments on my car or house or my sons braces just to care for the two that I have. That's why I'm closing up shop and doing other work for a while. It's for the :GASP: money
Oh Cedar you can do any OTHER job for money... just not child care. Well you can do child care for money as long as it's not the number ONE reason you do child care. It has to be LOVE first.

It's hard to grasp the concept that well paid and fairly compensated for the actual WORK and time will net your kid a heck of a lot more love.
  #92  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
I moved from a low-middle income area to an upper middle class area. It was good financially, but terrible from the type of parents I get. I deal with parent issues on an almost DAILY basis.

Today a dck came in with a half eaten candy bar Mom 'couldn't get away from him' and one came with pjs because she 'wouldn't get dressed' and one was a dope and drop! Seriously!
Some of that kind of stuff I just roll with. I guess it is just my laid back personality. I try not to sweat the small stuff. If something happens over and over, I'll address it but if occasionally someone isn't dressed (my grandson came like that one day) I just let them in and dress them myself. To me it is better than me feeling upset.

It doesn't mean I'll let it go on and on but here and there I just do what needs to be done. I remember my single mom daughter almost in tears that day that he wouldn't get dressed. He was being a real little butt. I am fine to help out if mom or dad is having a rough morning. We all have one from time to time.

Maybe it is because I was a stay at home mom and didn't watch children back then. I can't even imagine what a parent today has to go through working full time outside the home. I personally feel for parents today. I chose to live without all the gadgets and stay home but I'm not sure one income is even feasible these days even without the gadgets....dunno. It's a whole new world. Okay, I'll shut up now.

Laurel
  #93  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Oh Cedar you can do any OTHER job for money... just not child care. Well you can do child care for money as long as it's not the number ONE reason you do child care. It has to be LOVE first.

It's hard to grasp the concept that well paid and fairly compensated for the actual WORK and time will net your kid a heck of a lot more love.
How silly of me!

Well, I do love my two dcks so I guess I'm going to go get some pliers and when ds gets home from school, we can pop his braces off and that'll save me some bucks and I will stay open!!
  #94  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:16 PM
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Honestly, if I enjoyed your company and you were willing to help out with the other kids while you were here then I would say - Sure, pick me up a coffee on the way in BUT if you made me feel uncomfortable and self conscious in any way then I would have to say No.

I don't believe it would in any way benefit your baby though. 4 months is so young to be in daycare. At this age, they need routine and their Mommy.
They do eventually adjust to daycare because children are built to adapt but the first few months are sure to be a rocky road no matter what.

If you really need to return to work now, all you can do is find a provider you trust with all your heart and give her the freedom to become a part of your child's life.

Good luck. I know how hard leaving your baby with someone else can be. That is why I got into childcare in the first place. I couldn't find anyone I trusted with my child...that's when I knew it probably wasn't them - It was me. 10 years later, here I am still doing daycare.
  #95  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:21 PM
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As far as the money debate, I remember there being a discussion somewhere once about how teachers are not paid like other professionals who have the same amount of schooling. Then someone said "It is because it is mainly a profession of women." They said if more men would get in the field they wouldn't stand for making less money.

Gotta call "Right On!" on that one.

Traditional female jobs are not as highly regarded or rewarded as are traditionally male jobs. Take truck drivers. How much skill does it take to drive a truck (well once you learn how)? It takes much more skill to correctly care for children so why the big pay difference?

Also I think women are conditioned to be somewhat submissive....at least in the past and it is going to take a few generations to get over that completely. I remember my own mom (I am 62) arguing with my dad to GET TO go to work after we were older. She wanted to stay home when we were little but when we got older she got bored and wanted a part time job. It was a major hassle with my traditional dad but she finally got her way. Go mom!

My daughter is in a business that is mostly men with a major company (then Merrill Lynch) and she was STILL getting paid quite a bit less. She had to fight for more money even nowadays. Luckily at her current job she has a woman boss who started her at just what the guys made. She also did a lot of research and had to adjust the way she acted to get ahead in a 'man's world.' She told me a few things that I hadn't even thought of. Like don't do what a man wouldn't do. How many men bring cookies to the office for everyone? Men ask for raises, women tend to take what they are given. Even the body language in meetings.

Yep, we're expected to love children and do it for 'pin money' as far as a lot of clients are concerned. It will change over time but we're not there yet.

Okay, off my soapbox....

Laurel
  #96  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurel View Post
As far as the money debate, I remember there being a discussion somewhere once about how teachers are not paid like other professionals who have the same amount of schooling. Then someone said "It is because it is mainly a profession of women." They said if more men would get in the field they wouldn't stand for making less money.

Gotta call "Right On!" on that one.

Traditional female jobs are not as highly regarded or rewarded as are traditionally male jobs. Take truck drivers. How much skill does it take to drive a truck (well once you learn how)? It takes much more skill to correctly care for children so why the big pay difference?

Also I think women are conditioned to be somewhat submissive....at least in the past and it is going to take a few generations to get over that completely. I remember my own mom (I am 62) arguing with my dad to GET TO go to work after we were older. She wanted to stay home when we were little but when we got older she got bored and wanted a part time job. It was a major hassle with my traditional dad but she finally got her way. Go mom!

My daughter is in a business that is mostly men with a major company (then Merrill Lynch) and she was STILL getting paid quite a bit less. She had to fight for more money even nowadays. Luckily at her current job she has a woman boss who started her at just what the guys made. She also did a lot of research and had to adjust the way she acted to get ahead in a 'man's world.' She told me a few things that I hadn't even thought of. Like don't do what a man wouldn't do. How many men bring cookies to the office for everyone? Men ask for raises, women tend to take what they are given. Even the body language in meetings.

Yep, we're expected to love children and do it for 'pin money' as far as a lot of clients are concerned. It will change over time but we're not there yet.

Okay, off my soapbox....

Laurel
I think that because women are still regarded as the primary caretakers of the children, they are more of a liability for some companies.

The mom is the one always called to pick up the child, stay home when they are sick and take care of the child's needs sucha s doctor appts, dentists, attending school functions etc thus taking more time off work than men do overall. As a business owner, I can see how frustrating that could potentially be for their bottom line.

Like you said, I do think that is changing but we are a long ways off.
  #97  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Soccermom View Post
Honestly, if I enjoyed your company and you were willing to help out with the other kids while you were here then I would say - Sure, pick me up a coffee on the way in BUT if you made me feel uncomfortable and self conscious in any way then I would have to say No.

I don't believe it would in any way benefit your baby though. 4 months is so young to be in daycare. At this age, they need routine and their Mommy.
They do eventually adjust to daycare because children are built to adapt but the first few months are sure to be a rocky road no matter what.

If you really need to return to work now, all you can do is find a provider you trust with all your heart and give her the freedom to become a part of your child's life.

Good luck. I know how hard leaving your baby with someone else can be. That is why I got into childcare in the first place. I couldn't find anyone I trusted with my child...that's when I knew it probably wasn't them - It was me. 10 years later, here I am still doing daycare.
See, now I wouldn't fuel that fire, SM. I've had plenty of babies start at 4 months or earlier with no issues what-so-ever. There doesn't have to be a rocky road at all.

This issue is mom's, not baby's. It's completely understandable...she doesn't want to leave her baby! But, the baby is going to be fine.
  #98  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I think that because women are still regarded as the primary caretakers of the children, they are more of a liability for some companies.

The mom is the one always called to pick up the child, stay home when they are sick and take care of the child's needs sucha s doctor appts, dentists, attending school functions etc thus taking more time off work than men do overall. As a business owner, I can see how frustrating that could potentially be for their bottom line.

Like you said, I do think that is changing but we are a long ways off.
That is a good point.

Laurel
  #99  
Old 12-12-2013, 01:59 PM
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See, now I wouldn't fuel that fire, SM. I've had plenty of babies start at 4 months or earlier with no issues what-so-ever. There doesn't have to be a rocky road at all.

This issue is mom's, not baby's. It's completely understandable...she doesn't want to leave her baby! But, the baby is going to be fine.
Soccermom is in Canada. 4 months IS young to be in daycare there.
  #100  
Old 12-12-2013, 02:03 PM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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See, now I wouldn't fuel that fire, SM. I've had plenty of babies start at 4 months or earlier with no issues what-so-ever. There doesn't have to be a rocky road at all.

This issue is mom's, not baby's. It's completely understandable...she doesn't want to leave her baby! But, the baby is going to be fine.
I've had a lot of babies from six weeks on and they do great. Few weeks to get them on the Nan Plan and then smooth sailing. Four months is such an EASY age and they are so fun. I wouldn't hesitate taking a lil mook at this age.

I like calm stable babies. My goal is to get them to calm and stable. Good eaters... good sleepers... good snugglers... tolerant laid back babies. At four months the toy playing would commence. Cake ;-)
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