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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Do You Provide Meals Or Kids Bring Their Own?
Mike Lassiter 10:39 AM 05-12-2011
Frances and I are sitting in day ONE of orientation and have heard of Health Dept. requirements if you serve food. Just interested in what those of you already operating are doing. It seems we will have to start as a group (<13) and all the must haves in order to comply seem too much to even fix meals.
Please advise?
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youretooloud 10:45 AM 05-12-2011
I provide. As far as I know, there aren't any special rules. Or maybe there are, I just have been doing it for so long, I can't remember why I do it.

We have certain foods we can and can't serve. The food program it'self is a pain in the neck, but I think overall it's pretty easy.
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morgan24 10:58 AM 05-12-2011
I provide everything. I do the food program and once you do it for a couple of months it's pretty easy.
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melskids 11:11 AM 05-12-2011
is the dept. of health the same thing as the food program?

here, i think they are 2 seperate thnigs....and the health dept. isnt involved at all.
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PitterPatter 11:15 AM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter:
Frances and I are sitting in day ONE of orientation and have heard of Health Dept. requirements if you serve food. Just interested in what those of you already operating are doing. It seems we will have to start as a group (<13) and all the must haves in order to comply seem too much to even fix meals.
Please advise?
I provide all meals and snacks. I actually don't allow any food from home.

I am enrolled in the food program. The meals are recorded daily and monitored 4 times a year with visits seeing the food and checking paperwork etc.
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Meeko 11:17 AM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by melskids:
is the dept. of health the same thing as the food program?

here, i think they are 2 seperate thnigs....and the health dept. isnt involved at all.
Don't know about other parts of the country, but I am licensed (Utah) through the Department of Health.
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Blackcat31 11:42 AM 05-12-2011
I provide all meals and snack that occur within the times I am open. I am also licensed as family childcare. There are different rules/regs that for centers vs family childcares. Things such as preparation, temping foods and serving/disposing them. Are those the differences you are referring to?
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countrymom 11:44 AM 05-12-2011
in ontario there is NO such thing as a food program. I provide all meals and snacks and don't allow food from home.
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Sugar Magnolia 11:50 AM 05-12-2011
BYOL here, we provide snacks. Always have a few back-ups though, someone will forget! We are a center and FL has very tight regs on kitchens, so they bring their own lunches. It was too expensive to convert the kitchen here, and the government food reimbursement program didn't seem worth it. My opinion. I do have a lunch policy that says the lunch should contain a grain, a protein, a dairy and a fruit/veggie serving. Most comply. No candy or junk food allowed.
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sharlan 03:03 PM 05-12-2011
I've always provided all meals (breakfast & lunch) and 2 snacks a day. Any food brought from home has to be enough for all children. I'm not on a food program.

Any child still here at dinner time is fed dinner.
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PitterPatter 03:09 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by melskids:
is the dept. of health the same thing as the food program?

here, i think they are 2 seperate thnigs....and the health dept. isnt involved at all.
Here they are 2 separate businesses.
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Mike Lassiter 05:02 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I provide all meals and snack that occur within the times I am open. I am also licensed as family childcare. There are different rules/regs that for centers vs family childcares. Things such as preparation, temping foods and serving/disposing them. Are those the differences you are referring to?
Yes. If we PREPARE meals we must have a 3 compartment sink or commercial dishwasher. Also must have a completely different sink for hand washing only. You can not wash your hands in the same sink you wash dishes in.
Thats just one thing; stove selection may require a fire suppression vent hood. If you open a can of food and put it into a plate we have to be inspected just like a restaurant. However packaged foods that are microwaved and served in that package does not. I can see some things that were covered today in orientation but others seem over kill to me
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Symphony 05:09 PM 05-12-2011
There is more than one food program available in the US. You might want to look into a different one if you don't think this one will work for you. Your licensor should be able to help with that.
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PitterPatter 05:15 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter:
Yes. If we PREPARE meals we must have a 3 compartment sink or commercial dishwasher. Also must have a completely different sink for hand washing only. You can not wash your hands in the same sink you wash dishes in.
Thats just one thing; stove selection may require a fire suppression vent hood. If you open a can of food and put it into a plate we have to be inspected just like a restaurant. However packaged foods that are microwaved and served in that package does not. I can see some things that were covered today in orientation but others seem over kill to me
Oh my goodness!! If that was required here the parents would be supplying the food!
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Symphony 05:16 PM 05-12-2011
There are also things (as a pp mentioned) that are in my regs, but when I am inspected, I'm told they do not apply to me as a Family Child Care Home.

For me, I am inspected by Dept of Health and Sanitation and he checks things like seperate handwashing sinks and my sanitizing facilities for dishes/silverware, etc, the temps of my fridges/freezers, how my food is stored etc. That is not optional, it is part of my license just like the Fire Marshall. Then I am inspected by the food program person who is there to see if I am serving healthy meals and reporting them back correctly. These are the people who reimburse me for meals and they are completely optional.

I would talk to your licensor and find out what exactly is required of you and whether you have the option to work with more than one program.
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Live and Learn 06:43 PM 05-12-2011
Here each child brings their own meals.
I provide water.
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Mike Lassiter 07:41 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by :
For me, I am inspected by Dept of Health and Sanitation and he checks things like seperate handwashing sinks and my sanitizing facilities for dishes/silverware, etc, the temps of my fridges/freezers, how my food is stored etc. That is not optional, it is part of my license just like the Fire Marshall.
exactly what I am talking about. As I understand IF you PREPARE food, you MUST comply with these rules. He said "if you open a can of beans and spoon the beans out of a can onto a plate, you are required to be inspected just like a restaurant kitchen by the health dept."

This is nothing to do with a food program that some are talking about. This is to open a daycare and feed children. Remarks about prepackaged foods do not require this inspection and resulting equipment (3 compartment sinks and such) that must be present to pass inspections to operate daycare.

The next day of orientation is to go over the rules for the specific type of daycare center we are considering. Today when had people from DHS, Health Dept. State Fire Marshal, and a couple of others speak to everyone. From 8:30 AM till 3:45 PM today for day one of 2 days REQUIRED orientation.
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MamaBear 08:12 PM 05-12-2011
I provide all meals, snacks and drinks. I've been thinking about getting on the food program though. I have a small daycare so Im not sure if it will really help much... but I guess it wouldnt hurt. Is it pretty simple to do?
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Symphony 08:34 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter:
exactly what I am talking about. As I understand IF you PREPARE food, you MUST comply with these rules. He said "if you open a can of beans and spoon the beans out of a can onto a plate, you are required to be inspected just like a restaurant kitchen by the health dept."

This is nothing to do with a food program that some are talking about. This is to open a daycare and feed children. Remarks about prepackaged foods do not require this inspection and resulting equipment (3 compartment sinks and such) that must be present to pass inspections to operate daycare.

The next day of orientation is to go over the rules for the specific type of daycare center we are considering. Today when had people from DHS, Health Dept. State Fire Marshal, and a couple of others speak to everyone. From 8:30 AM till 3:45 PM today for day one of 2 days REQUIRED orientation.
When I said that it isn't optional for me to be part of the Dept of Health, it is regardless of if I prepare or serve food. Dept of Health and Fire Marshall are just part of the required package to be liscensed.

My three compartment sink is my regular two sided kitchen sink and then my dishwasher which has a sanitize cycle. Before we had the dishwasher, I had a large tub that was used to sanitize. Both these were considered my third compartment by the health department.
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Mike Lassiter 08:53 PM 05-12-2011
That was also stated today (pan for 3rd sink) but still there MUST be yet another sink to be in the food preparation area used ONLY for washing your hands. "You can't wash your hands in the same sink you wash dishes in." For a center the remark was many choose to use throw away plates and such to avoid the 3 sink/ commercial dishwasher. I guess the dishwasher must be much more expensive than a home unit. I understood the commercial unit either sprayed a sanitatizing agent on the dishes after washing or super heated them to sterile them. I can't see so much of a problem with this and understand the reasoning but another sink for only washing your hands?
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Symphony 09:04 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter:
That was also stated today (pan for 3rd sink) but still there MUST be yet another sink to be in the food preparation area used ONLY for washing your hands. "You can't wash your hands in the same sink you wash dishes in." For a center the remark was many choose to use throw away plates and such to avoid the 3 sink/ commercial dishwasher. I guess the dishwasher must be much more expensive than a home unit. I understood the commercial unit either sprayed a sanitatizing agent on the dishes after washing or super heated them to sterile them. I can't see so much of a problem with this and understand the reasoning but another sink for only washing your hands?
My dishwasher was $500 and it was a tax write off, so that is always helpful! Our handwashing sink has to be within 12ft of the area where we change diapers and cannot be one of the food prep sinks. I do not have to have a seperate sink just for hands in the kitchen. Maybe clarify that?
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3kidzmama 09:32 PM 05-12-2011
Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter:
That was also stated today (pan for 3rd sink) but still there MUST be yet another sink to be in the food preparation area used ONLY for washing your hands. "You can't wash your hands in the same sink you wash dishes in." For a center the remark was many choose to use throw away plates and such to avoid the 3 sink/ commercial dishwasher. I guess the dishwasher must be much more expensive than a home unit. I understood the commercial unit either sprayed a sanitatizing agent on the dishes after washing or super heated them to sterile them. I can't see so much of a problem with this and understand the reasoning but another sink for only washing your hands?
Mike, I'm in Arkansas, and what you are describing is exactly what my regs are. We planned to have families supply their own food, but were told by the health Dept that even if they bring it and you only heat it, the same kitchen requirements apply because we are required to have the sink for cleaning up. And we have to have a separate handwashing sink in the kitchen, and a separate mop sink. We are going through with the full blown kitchen and will prepare meals and get onto food program. We figured if we have to have it for cleanup, then we might as well go ahead and prepare food and get on the food program.
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Mike Lassiter 09:51 PM 05-12-2011
Health Dept REQUIRES a sink in kitchen or food processing area to be used only for washing hands. You can not wash hands in the sink used to wash dishes in - "you don't want to do that" was exact phrase stated. I believe the logic is to do with spreading germs to your clean hands after washing. The 2 or 3 basin sink that dishes would be washed, rinsed, sanitized in can not be used to wash your hands while working in food processing area.

A separate sink from the "normal one" that is used ONLY for washing hands. No mob water etc. here only washing hands.

If your dishwasher was under the counter commercial one, I am surprised at the cost. You can spend more than that on a high quality home dishwasher. I was expecting $2K the way the Health Dept guy was talking. He told everyone that a local restaurant supply was a place to get one.
I understand these things vary from place to place, and town and county but I have not saw such an arrangement in any commercial kitchens I have saw or been in. Although I haven't been in any in the last little while, I guess the code could be new and just taking effect. It still seems frivolous to me.

My understanding was this applies to any daycare in this area, family, group or center. IF food was "prepared". As stated previously - "If you open a can of beans and spoon them out of the can onto a plate, you are preparing food because it is being removed from the orignal container." This calls for a health inspection for food prepration just like the resturants have and also calls for special washing of dishes and extra sinks (pan) and the extra hand washing sink.

I am a fairly logical person. Many things told today do make sense when the reasoning for some things were given. Others not so much, but we have to play by "their" rules if we get to play at all.
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melskids 02:41 AM 05-13-2011
holy cow.

my state doesnt require any of that, not even for centers!!!!

its amazing how different regs are for each state/county.
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CdnMumof4 09:51 PM 05-13-2011
All food is prepared in my home for the kids. I do allow food from home, but only if their child has something specific [usually infants] like jarred baby food, baby mum mum cracker type things, or something like that. I don't provide homo milk, so the parents send in their child's milk for the day and I've never had any issues with that. I, personally, have a child with severe allergies and colitis induced by certain foods so I am very careful with what is served here. Although he can't have any ..well..anything, I do allow the dck to have some cheese on occasion and foods containing wheat, but not often. I may have to raise my prices a little bit to afford to feed all the children the way my son eats , to avoid any chance of system contamination.

I've never heard of the food program- I am in Ontario also
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sharlan 09:56 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by CdnMumof4:
All food is prepared in my home for the kids. I do allow food from home, but only if their child has something specific [usually infants] like jarred baby food, baby mum mum cracker type things, or something like that. I don't provide homo milk, so the parents send in their child's milk for the day and I've never had any issues with that. I, personally, have a child with severe allergies and colitis induced by certain foods so I am very careful with what is served here. Although he can't have any ..well..anything, I do allow the dck to have some cheese on occasion and foods containing wheat, but not often. I may have to raise my prices a little bit to afford to feed all the children the way my son eats , to avoid any chance of system contamination.

I've never heard of the food program- I am in Ontario also
Out of curiosity, why do you provide food, but not milk?
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AnythingsPossible 04:47 AM 05-14-2011
I may have missed it, but are you opening a center or a opening a daycare in your home?
In my state, the rules you are stating apply to centers and to people who run a daycare out of a home that they do not live in. Home providers do not have the same kind of rules. Here, if you are a home provider watching over 15, you have to follow the USDA food program that the schools have to follow, but not the sanitation rules that larger centers have to follow.
Your best bet would be to get in contact with your licensor to determine if what you are asking about applies to you or not.
The only time that the rules for centers apply to homes is if a home provider remodels their house for daycare specific purposes. If you were to remodel your basement for example and put a kitchen in for meal prep, then we would have to install the 3 compartment sink, oven hood, and things like that.
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snbauser 05:28 AM 05-14-2011
I supply all food and drink. I operate out of my home but am licensed as a center so I have to follow center rules. That means any food being brought into the daycare has to be commercially prepared. No frying. No leftovers. Separate hand washing sink. 3 compartment sink or 2 compartment with a dishwasher that has a sanitizing cycle. If I was still licensed as family child care, none of these rules would apply.
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CdnMumof4 05:28 AM 05-14-2011
I don't provide milk because my youngest has milk and soy protein induced colitis, do I don't keep massive stashes of milk on hand. I do have 2% and rice milk, but if their child drinks homo- they bring it from home :-)
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