Daycare.com Forum

Go Back   Daycare.com Forum > Main Category > Daycare Center and Family Home Forum

Daycare Center and Family Home Forum Daycare Center and Family Home owners, Directors, Operators and Assistants should post and ask questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:20 AM
Lorna's Avatar
Lorna Lorna is offline
New Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 172
Default Would You Terminate This Child?

I have a new child that has been here about 3 months. Most of the time the child has had diarrhea. The mom and dad are separated. The mom admitted to feeding the child entire meals of fruit. At first I kept telling them he had diarrhea but hadn't sent him home because they had said its fruit. I just kept warning them I would have to send him home. So now on Monday he had diarrhea and I called at 11 for them to pick him up. Told him he couldn't come back until Wed. He dropped him off this morning. I asked how the diarrhea was and he said he had a solid poop. Proceeded to show me a picture that he had on his phone of a solid poop. Didn't look very solid to me. It was a loose poop in a little pile. I pointed out it didn't look all that solid, but wasn't diarrhea. He said that oh yeah it was really solid. bull. I asked if the mom said she had given him fruit again and he said no. She said she gave him nothing. The Aunt had told me the mom doesn't like being told what to do, doesn't want to take any advice. So I think this is not going to get resolved. So I am thinking now with the next bout of diarrhea I send him home. Out for 24 hours and tell them maybe they should start looking for daycare somewhere else.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:23 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Deep in the woods....
Posts: 3,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorna View Post
I have a new child that has been here about 3 months. Most of the time the child has had diarrhea. The mom and dad are separated. The mom admitted to feeding the child entire meals of fruit. At first I kept telling them he had diarrhea but hadn't sent him home because they had said its fruit. I just kept warning them I would have to send him home. So now on Monday he had diarrhea and I called at 11 for them to pick him up. Told him he couldn't come back until Wed. He dropped him off this morning. I asked how the diarrhea was and he said he had a solid poop. Proceeded to show me a picture that he had on his phone of a solid poop. Didn't look very solid to me. It was a loose poop in a little pile. I pointed out it didn't look all that solid, but wasn't diarrhea. He said that oh yeah it was really solid. bull. I asked if the mom said she had given him fruit again and he said no. She said she gave him nothing. The Aunt had told me the mom doesn't like being told what to do, doesn't want to take any advice. So I think this is not going to get resolved. So I am thinking now with the next bout of diarrhea I send him home. Out for 24 hours and tell them maybe they should start looking for daycare somewhere else.
I would consistently exclude until mom either gets the point that she needs to change his diet. Or takes him in for a check up. If yu get any flack about excluding or eventually if y need a dr note, I would term.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:33 AM
Lorna's Avatar
Lorna Lorna is offline
New Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 172
Default

I did insist on a doctor note. but the dumb doctor just wrote them a note saying he wasn't contagious and should be able to go to daycare. Apparently doctor didn't even take a stool sample. So totally not right for him to write a note saying he wasn't contagious when he didn't know for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:35 AM
Cradle2crayons's Avatar
Cradle2crayons Cradle2crayons is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Deep in the woods....
Posts: 3,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorna View Post
I did insist on a doctor note. but the dumb doctor just wrote them a note saying he wasn't contagious and should be able to go to daycare. Apparently doctor didn't even take a stool sample. So totally not right for him to write a note saying he wasn't contagious when he didn't know for sure.
That's why when I require a doctors visit, I send mom with my OWN FORM.

On that form it states the symptoms I SEE. The frequency and how long it's been going on it detail.

I don't trust that parents are going to really tell the doc what they should.. Ad then e doc doesn't have enough information to make a good decision.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-18-2013, 07:51 AM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,607
Default

Stool samples won't show anything if the diarrhea is due to too much fruit, too much sugar etc.

If it happens, regardless of the excuse, exclude. If they come back and it happens again, exclude. Keep up with your 24 hour exclusion rule and let them term themselves if they don't want to do what they need to do to calm his gut. No one can afford to take that much time off work.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-18-2013, 08:21 AM
daycarediva's Avatar
daycarediva daycarediva is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 11,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Stool samples won't show anything if the diarrhea is due to too much fruit, too much sugar etc.

If it happens, regardless of the excuse, exclude. If they come back and it happens again, exclude. Keep up with your 24 hour exclusion rule and let them term themselves if they don't want to do what they need to do to calm his gut. No one can afford to take that much time off work.
I had a dcm giving a dck QUARTS of OJ every evening and then getting upset with ME when I sent home for diarrhea! They FINALLY changed his diet, but it took a LOT of convincing and calling for pick up on my part.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-18-2013, 08:59 AM
missheather's Avatar
missheather missheather is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
That's why when I require a doctors visit, I send mom with my OWN FORM.

On that form it states the symptoms I SEE. The frequency and how long it's been going on it detail.
That is an awesome idea! Anyway we could get a copy of this form?

Last edited by missheather; 09-18-2013 at 08:59 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-18-2013, 09:56 AM
jenboo's Avatar
jenboo jenboo is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 2,740
Default

My niece and nephew used to spend one week at dads and one week at moms. Their stool was always soft/running. Nothing was wrong with them. We ended up determining it was changing between the two different diets each week. I know that if I change up my diet, things change.
Now both kids are with mom full time and the stool is much firmer.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:08 AM
itlw8's Avatar
itlw8 itlw8 is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,199
Default

I am so lucky my childcare provider worked with me when ds had that problem years ago. we kept a food diary both of us wrote down Everything he ate and the amount. We started with an elimination diet then slowly added back in.

found he could not have pork fat. so ham, bacon etc was out.... and only up to 1/4 cup of milk products a day. that includes in baked goods... she was a lifesaver.

If I had not been doing this she would have sent us home for sure.
__________________
It will wait
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:33 AM
countrymom's Avatar
countrymom countrymom is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ontario canada
Posts: 4,756
Default

I had this issue with a child, he was here for 2 yrs. I complained all the time. You know what the parents told me "its normal for the child to have diarhea type poop" thats what the doctor told them and then dad says that his poop is the same way. whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:34 AM
Leigh's Avatar
Leigh Leigh is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,683
Default

I exclude for diarrhea that I believe to be illness related or that just becomes too much to handle (making messes). I have a child now who is believed to have Crohn's disease. His mom told me about his stools at the interview. I wouldn't exclude him unless I believed it to be caused by something else (his stools, while lacking consistency, are fairly consistent).
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:51 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,956
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by missheather View Post
That is an awesome idea! Anyway we could get a copy of this form?
Here is the form I use. I don't know what C2C's looks like but mine is similar to what OP should have had parent bring to their doctor.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 10-12-2014 at 08:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:57 AM
TwinKristi's Avatar
TwinKristi TwinKristi is offline
Family Childcare Provider
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,386
Default

Personally I wouldn't term for non-illness related diarrhea. Some people actually DO have diarrhea like stools only. I have a 3.5yr old DCB who often has very soft stools but I know it's not contagious as he's always been like that for over a year. The only reason I would send a child home is with a worry of other children contracting what said child has. If its dietary I don't understand what the problem is especially with a dr's note. Is it that you don't want to change his diarrhea diapers? If child is otherwise healthy I'm not sure what the problem is?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:10 AM
MNMum's Avatar
MNMum MNMum is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Minnestoa
Posts: 598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinKristi View Post
Personally I wouldn't term for non-illness related diarrhea. Some people actually DO have diarrhea like stools only. I have a 3.5yr old DCB who often has very soft stools but I know it's not contagious as he's always been like that for over a year. The only reason I would send a child home is with a worry of other children contracting what said child has. If its dietary I don't understand what the problem is especially with a dr's note. Is it that you don't want to change his diarrhea diapers? If child is otherwise healthy I'm not sure what the problem is?
All of my kids have been this way. We tried elimination diets with a couple of them, couldn't come up with anything. They just have non formed stool, always. We eat a very rounded healthy diet.
__________________
MnMum married to DH 9 yrs
Mum to Girl 11, Girl 8, Boy 4.5, Boy 9 mos
DCK's 3, 3, 18 mos, 4 mos
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:19 AM
Familycare71's Avatar
Familycare71 Familycare71 is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinKristi View Post
Personally I wouldn't term for non-illness related diarrhea. Some people actually DO have diarrhea like stools only. I have a 3.5yr old DCB who often has very soft stools but I know it's not contagious as he's always been like that for over a year. The only reason I would send a child home is with a worry of other children contracting what said child has. If its dietary I don't understand what the problem is especially with a dr's note. Is it that you don't want to change his diarrhea diapers? If child is otherwise healthy I'm not sure what the problem is?
I don't do diarrhea- I don't care what is causing it or what a dr says. I will work with loose stool to a certain extent- if there is a know and unavoidable cause- but the runs are not in my pay grade.
And IF a child had typical BM's that were diarrhea like- the parents should share that at enrollment AND be willing to figure out the cause. In addition be willing to eliminate the cause when it is found.
I would send home until 24 hours of firm stool every time- they will change the diet or term themselves.
As BC says- their problems shouldn't be your problems!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:27 AM
TwinKristi's Avatar
TwinKristi TwinKristi is offline
Family Childcare Provider
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Familycare71 View Post
I don't do diarrhea- I don't care what is causing it or what a dr says. I will work with loose stool to a certain extent- if there is a know and unavoidable cause- but the runs are not in my pay grade.
And IF a child had typical BM's that were diarrhea like- the parents should share that at enrollment AND be willing to figure out the cause. In addition be willing to eliminate the cause when it is found.
I would send home until 24 hours of firm stool every time- they will change the diet or term themselves.
As BC says- their problems shouldn't be your problems!
To each their own, but that sounds like a personal issue. I would be sure to include in your contract that babies/children with non-contagious diarrhea for dietary or medical reasons will be excluded from care. What seems normal to some isn't normal to another so a parents may not know its something abnormal and to tell someone if they have this and their dr says its a variation of normal.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:42 AM
Willow Willow is offline
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinKristi View Post
To each their own, but that sounds like a personal issue. I would be sure to include in your contract that babies/children with non-contagious diarrhea for dietary or medical reasons will be excluded from care. What seems normal to some isn't normal to another so a parents may not know its something abnormal and to tell someone if they have this and their dr says its a variation of normal.
It's really not a personally issue but a health department and supervision concern one.

Diarrhea can rarely be contained in a diaper even when changed immediately. That means the feces can easily leak out onto the child, the flooring, furniture, toys and subsequently come into contact with other children. Not to mention the additional time it takes away from the group to constantly have to clean up a child with that sort of mess all over their person.


It's exactly why most state regs require exclusion for diarrhea. It cannot be contained, is a risk to the health of others and creates supervision concerns for providers working alone.

All of that isn't personal preference by a long shot.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-18-2013, 12:01 PM
missheather's Avatar
missheather missheather is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Here is the form I use. I don't know what C2C's looks like but mine is similar to what OP should have had parent bring to their doctor.
Thank you BlackCat!!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-18-2013, 12:05 PM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,956
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow View Post
It's really not a personally issue but a health department and supervision concern one.

Diarrhea can rarely be contained in a diaper even when changed immediately. That means the feces can easily leak out onto the child, the flooring, furniture, toys and subsequently come into contact with other children. Not to mention the additional time it takes away from the group to constantly have to clean up a child with that sort of mess all over their person.


It's exactly why most state regs require exclusion for diarrhea. It cannot be contained, is a risk to the health of others and creates supervision concerns for providers working alone.

All of that isn't personal preference by a long shot.


It is most definitely not a personal issue.... it's a sanitary one.

And in the best interests of ALL the children in care not just one.

FWIW~ My definition of diarrhea is NON-contained poo or poo leaking out of a diaper or undies.

Loose stool within the diaper is loose stool. Unless I KNEW the child was a regular "firm" pooper and now has a series of loose stools.

Otherwise 99% of my policies are due to required state laws and regulations.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-18-2013, 12:13 PM
KIDZRMYBIZ's Avatar
KIDZRMYBIZ KIDZRMYBIZ is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 669
Default

Just an idea:

Some people lack a digestive enzyme and the result is diarrhea or loose bowel movements. Some foods (fruit acids, ruffage, caffeine) can cause symptoms to be worse.

I had a little guy once whose bowel movements had such an intense, incredibly nasty odor. Once he was out of diapers it was better, but (begin singing) Oooh! That smell! Can't you smell that smell? That smell that surrounds you!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diarrhea, forms, health care provider evaluation form

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do Your Daycare Kids Act Out at Pickup? jenh171 Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 64 Today 06:58 AM
I Am Sick Of Sick Kids Coming In mickey2 Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 26 02-01-2018 01:28 PM
Thoughts On Particular Child - Unregistered Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 12 12-17-2014 06:54 AM
Do Any Of You Have A Biting Policy? crazydaycarelady Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 6 10-25-2012 03:56 PM
Do You Send Home For Just A Fever ? Provider_Manda Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 18 10-25-2012 08:47 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:07 AM.



Daycare.com         Find A Daycare         List Your Daycare         Toys & Products                 About Us

Daycare.com
Please read our Disclaimer before continuing.

Topics pertain mainly to the following States:

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming