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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>What Would You Do......Opinions Please!
caregiver 07:25 AM 09-17-2014
This might be long, so I apologize.
Had my daycare Mom come today asking me a question,now to back track, I care for her daughter,3 yrs old full time and part time for the son,who is 4 and a half,he goes to a full time preschool 2 days a week & I have him the other days in which I take the 2 of them to morning preschool 3 days a week. So he is with me 3 days, but half days. Now he is a handful, has many meltdowns, where he will throw a toy and is just very disrespectful when it comes to listening and I have put up with his behavior for over a year and he is the same at home and I have talked to the parents many times about it and they and I are trying to work with him about his behavior, but he still has his hissy fits and doesn't like it when he doesn't get his way.

He apparently told his parents yesterday that my husband has put him in time out,picked him up from preschool,picked him up literally. None of this is true, my husband was not even home yesterday at the time he said he picked him up from preschool. My husband is tall and is a big guy and has a deep voice, which intimidates a lot of kids and people. My husband is a big teddy bear and would not hurt a fly. I am always home when he is home, so I know what he does and he doesn't even deal with my kids, my daycare is mine and he doesn't interfere with my daycare business. He would be really hurt if I told him what this kid said. He is a good man.

I assured the mom that none of this was true and she pretty much knew it was not true as her son has been lying about his friends also, so she just said she had to ask and said to not worry about it and she won't bring it up again.
But it really bothers me that this kid even said these things,and what will he make up next. Never in my 31 yrs of doing daycare have I had a child that has made up things and especially about my husband, so this really upset me. What would you do in this situation,just let it go and hope he doesn't make more things up or what...?
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craftymissbeth 07:29 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
This might be long, so I apologize.
Had my daycare Mom come today asking me a question,now to back track, I care for her daughter,3 yrs old full time and part time for the son,who is 4 and a half,he goes to a full time preschool 2 days a week & I have him the other days in which I take the 2 of them to morning preschool 3 days a week. So he is with me 3 days, but half days. Now he is a handful, has many meltdowns, where he will throw a toy and is just very disrespectful when it comes to listening and I have put up with his behavior for over a year and he is the same at home and I have talked to the parents many times about it and they and I are trying to work with him about his behavior, but he still has his hissy fits and doesn't like it when he doesn't get his way.

He apparently told his parents yesterday that my husband has put him in time out,picked him up from preschool,picked him up literally. None of this is true, my husband was not even home yesterday at the time he said he picked him up from preschool. My husband is tall and is a big guy and has a deep voice, which intimidates a lot of kids and people. My husband is a big teddy bear and would not hurt a fly. I am always home when he is home, so I know what he does and he doesn't even deal with my kids, my daycare is mine and he doesn't interfere with my daycare business. He would be really hurt if I told him what this kid said. He is a good man.

I assured the mom that none of this was true and she pretty much knew it was not true as her son has been lying about his friends also, so she just said she had to ask and said to not worry about it and she won't bring it up again.
But it really bothers me that this kid even said these things,and what will he make up next. Never in my 31 yrs of doing daycare have I had a child that has made up things and especially about my husband, so this really upset me. What would you do in this situation,just let it go and hope he doesn't make more things up or what...?
If she knew it was a lie she wouldn't have brought it up. This isn't something I would necessarily term over, but I would make it clear to dcm that it's imperative that she trusts your judgment.
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SSWonders 07:30 AM 09-17-2014
Honestly, I would term. Mom may believe him this time, but what about next time and what if he says something more serious? Been there, done that and it is not a good situation to be in.
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Unregistered 07:36 AM 09-17-2014
I don't think I keep him on. The lies he may tell could destroy not only one's business, but put one's family in complete turmoil. What he is doing and the damage his words can imflict are serious.
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SSWonders 07:48 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't think I keep him on. The lies he may tell could destroy not only one's business, but put one's family in complete turmoil. What he is doing and the damage his words can imflict are serious.



Absolutley!
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Cat Herder 07:49 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
He apparently told his parents yesterday that my husband has put him in time out,picked him up from preschool,picked him up literally.
4 year olds are fantastic story tellers who know how to play on the non-verbal feedback from their audience. It is kind of their thing. No biggie, go with the old "You should hear what he says about you... hahaha" or "I won't believe what he says about you if you do the same for me... haha"

What I find disturbing is why it would bother DCM if any of the above happened. The kid obviously knows it is an issue to DCM or he would not pick the topic. It would be risky to keep DCM if she does not want her kid around men.
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Soccermom 08:15 AM 09-17-2014
I have found, in my experience, that once children learn they can manipulate their parents with their words they will use their new found skill every chance they get.

A lot of kids will tell lies they know their parents would be concerned about if they think there might be a way of getting out of having to go to a sitter every day.

My guess is that at some point DCM had some sort of concern about your husband being at home sometimes and asked DCB some innocent questions. DCB heard in his little mind that DCM is not a fan of your husband being around occasionally and thought he would use this new found knowledge to get out of having to go to the sitter. What these kids don't think about is the fact that no matter what, DCM is going to work and he will have to go somewhere.

I had a DCB do this exact thing to me the other day. He is 7. He told DCM that my husband came home early from work (Which he did) and told DCB that he did not like him and no longer wanted him in our home....total and complete lie. My DH came home from work early because he had an evening appt. He sat at the dining room table, took off his work boots and then we chatted for a few moments until this DCM arrived.

She brought it up the next morning half joking about it...but seriously? You think I would tolerate my own husband saying that to a child?!!

Kids are smart. They know just what to say to upset their parents and make them feel even more guilty for working while the child is left in the hands of the sitter.
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Play Care 09:13 AM 09-17-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't think I keep him on. The lies he may tell could destroy not only one's business, but put one's family in complete turmoil. What he is doing and the damage his words can inflict are serious.
This.
Yes, 4 yo are good story tellers, but this type of story makes me too uncomfortable. It's also why my husband is NOT my sub and really doesn't come around the dc kids at all...
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caregiver 06:36 AM 09-18-2014
I am the original poster,so I need opinions if I am doing the right thing,
I will be terming this family as of tomorrow. I will be writing a letter today informing them my last day will be tomorrow. I am just to uncomfortable with this,none of what this kid said is true, but I don't trust this dcb anymore and what he will say to whom and if they don't know me and believe what he says. I'm not willing to put my reputation or my husbands on the line for a 4 yr old that makes up things as he obviously is not happy here. Am I doing the right thing or should I keep him and hope he doesn't make up things again?
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Blackcat31 07:07 AM 09-18-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
I am the original poster,so I need opinions if I am doing the right thing,
I will be terming this family as of tomorrow. I will be writing a letter today informing them my last day will be tomorrow. I am just to uncomfortable with this,none of what this kid said is true, but I don't trust this dcb anymore and what he will say to whom and if they don't know me and believe what he says. I'm not willing to put my reputation or my husbands on the line for a 4 yr old that makes up things as he obviously is not happy here. Am I doing the right thing or should I keep him and hope he doesn't make up things again?
Call or e-mail your licensor. Tell her exactly what is going on. BEFORE you talk to the family.

Personally I would term. I would term because I truly believe the foundation of my relationship with a client is trust and in this scenario the trust is obviously not there.

If I were the mom and I KNEW my child was a fibber and he made a statement about my child care provider or any of her family members I don't think I would have even mentioned it because I would trust her.

Now if the statements were made repeatedly and innocently, I may begin to wonder/question but certainly wouldn't make "jokes" about it. Nor would I return with my child.

I think the term for me in this case would not necessarily be because the child was telling tall tales but would be because of HOW mom handled it.

Her behavior and the way she brought it up/said it, is what has me uncomfortable. I don't know....it's just odd I guess but who knows.

Anyways, I just cwuldn't be comfortable with a family that has "shown" me they do not trust me 100%.
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tntsmom 07:21 AM 09-18-2014
Really hard to say. But if she questioned you, then probably thinking otherwise and somewhat believes him. Behavior issues will only get worse if they do not set the ground rules and children feed off of each other and I know 1 bad behavior in a child can affect all of them.
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SquirrellyMama 10:48 AM 09-18-2014
I can't fault the mom for saying something. She was worried. We are always asking, "Why didn't the mom say or do something?!", in cases where a child has been hurt.

I think she tried to diffuse the situation by saying the child has been lying, so she didn't really believe it. But as a mom I don't blame her for speaking up.

On that note, I would still term. Not because of the mom, but the child. That is a dangerous lie to tell, and can negatively affect people forever.

Kelly
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llpa 12:06 PM 09-18-2014
I termed a year ago over this exact situation! The 4 yo boy had only been here 4 days! I also was worried that he would make up something that could really hurt my business. I think I was on the right track as I heard he was invited to leave two other dc's btw he just made up a random person in his story. I think you are doing the right thing!
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MissAnn 12:15 PM 09-18-2014
A kid lied about me and I had to close for 2 months and investigated. I won't risk it. I would at least write it up, have mom sign it and talk it over with DHS.
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DaveA 12:38 PM 09-18-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
This might be long, so I apologize.
He apparently told his parents yesterday that my husband has put him in time out,picked him up from preschool,picked him up literally. None of this is true, my husband was not even home yesterday at the time he said he picked him up from preschool. My husband is tall and is a big guy and has a deep voice, which intimidates a lot of kids and people. My husband is a big teddy bear and would not hurt a fly. I am always home when he is home, so I know what he does and he doesn't even deal with my kids, my daycare is mine and he doesn't interfere with my daycare business. He would be really hurt if I told him what this kid said. He is a good man.
First I would talk to your license rep. Let them know you think there might be a situation, because I would be willing to bet DCM at least partly believes DCK. At the very least, she's trying to see how far she can push it. I've had parents try to say they don't want there child with a sub ever. If your lucky that is all there is to it. But in all likelihood it was an issue to DCM.

You're doing the right thing terming. A child lying about you or a family member can escalate and explode. If you absolutely feel you need to give a reason be blunt. "What you said and what your child said potentially places my program and my husband in serious jeopardy. I will not have my program or more importantly my family threatened by something like that."

Good Luck
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caregiver 07:16 PM 09-18-2014
I did term today, it was not well received at all, which is to be expected. I said Friday would be my last day and they ended it today. Talked to my license rep beforehand and she told me that if I thought that this situation would escalate at any time with this dcb, that it would be best to term. She supported my decision,which really made me feel I was doing the right thing.
This dcm just doesn't get it, she kept telling me I was overreacting and that it is just a little boy making up stories. But what she doesn't get is that if he makes this up now at only 4 yrs old, what could he possibly make up next and to whom and would they believe that it was just a little boy making things up. I am not willing to put myself or family in a situation like this as it could possibly turn my life upside down,all because a little boy felt he had to make up things and how do you prove your innocence if the wrong person heard this and did not know he was fibbing.
Well, I got the whole I'm putting her in a bad situation as now she has no daycare and no one to drive him to preschool,which I was doing. She doesn't want to think that her son put her in this situation by fibbing and to myself & my husband, this is a serious issue that this child is doing this at this age and attacking my husband,who he doesn't hardly know or see when he is here is not something that can be dismissed easily as he is just a kid making up stories.
I do feel bad for the parents as I did put them in a bad situation for daycare,but the child is a lair and they need to deal with this before it gets out of hand and really hurts somebody.
I know I did the right thing in terming and hopefully the parents will realize that their son needs help of some kind. He is a very manipulative child with behavioral issues that need to be dealt with before it gets out of hand.
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SSWonders 04:24 AM 09-19-2014
I support you 100% in looking out for you and your families best interests. I have been in this situation and it did turn my life upside down and caused a lot or turmoil in our lives for nothing. And I might add that this also was a four year old little boy. You just can't take the risk. You did the right thing.
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DaveA 05:15 AM 09-19-2014


Never fun terminating, but you have to look out for yourself first.
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SquirrellyMama 09:26 AM 09-19-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
I did term today, it was not well received at all, which is to be expected. I said Friday would be my last day and they ended it today. Talked to my license rep beforehand and she told me that if I thought that this situation would escalate at any time with this dcb, that it would be best to term. She supported my decision,which really made me feel I was doing the right thing.
This dcm just doesn't get it, she kept telling me I was overreacting and that it is just a little boy making up stories. But what she doesn't get is that if he makes this up now at only 4 yrs old, what could he possibly make up next and to whom and would they believe that it was just a little boy making things up. I am not willing to put myself or family in a situation like this as it could possibly turn my life upside down,all because a little boy felt he had to make up things and how do you prove your innocence if the wrong person heard this and did not know he was fibbing.
Well, I got the whole I'm putting her in a bad situation as now she has no daycare and no one to drive him to preschool,which I was doing. She doesn't want to think that her son put her in this situation by fibbing and to myself & my husband, this is a serious issue that this child is doing this at this age and attacking my husband,who he doesn't hardly know or see when he is here is not something that can be dismissed easily as he is just a kid making up stories.
I do feel bad for the parents as I did put them in a bad situation for daycare,but the child is a lair and they need to deal with this before it gets out of hand and really hurts somebody.
I know I did the right thing in terming and hopefully the parents will realize that their son needs help of some kind. He is a very manipulative child with behavioral issues that need to be dealt with before it gets out of hand.
Nope, you didn't put them in a bad spot. Their child put them in the bad spot. You did the right thing.

Kelly
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Blackcat31 09:31 AM 09-19-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
I did term today, it was not well received at all, which is to be expected. I said Friday would be my last day and they ended it today. Talked to my license rep beforehand and she told me that if I thought that this situation would escalate at any time with this dcb, that it would be best to term. She supported my decision,which really made me feel I was doing the right thing.
This dcm just doesn't get it, she kept telling me I was overreacting and that it is just a little boy making up stories. But what she doesn't get is that if he makes this up now at only 4 yrs old, what could he possibly make up next and to whom and would they believe that it was just a little boy making things up. I am not willing to put myself or family in a situation like this as it could possibly turn my life upside down,all because a little boy felt he had to make up things and how do you prove your innocence if the wrong person heard this and did not know he was fibbing.
Well, I got the whole I'm putting her in a bad situation as now she has no daycare and no one to drive him to preschool,which I was doing. She doesn't want to think that her son put her in this situation by fibbing and to myself & my husband, this is a serious issue that this child is doing this at this age and attacking my husband,who he doesn't hardly know or see when he is here is not something that can be dismissed easily as he is just a kid making up stories.
I do feel bad for the parents as I did put them in a bad situation for daycare,but the child is a lair and they need to deal with this before it gets out of hand and really hurts somebody.
I know I did the right thing in terming and hopefully the parents will realize that their son needs help of some kind. He is a very manipulative child with behavioral issues that need to be dealt with before it gets out of hand.
Let's hope this (being termed) was a wake up call to them because if it wasn't this will not be the last time they find themselves in this type of situation.

Care giver, you did the right thing. You gotta look out for YOU.
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TheGoodLife 09:40 AM 09-19-2014
Originally Posted by SquirrellyMama:
Nope, you didn't put them in a bad spot. Their child put them in the bad spot. You did the right thing.

Kelly
This is exactly what I was thinking when I ready that- they are in a bad spot, but not due to you. You are being responsible and protecting your business and family! Hope everything is over with and she doesn't try to drag it out anymore.
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daycarediva 11:40 AM 09-19-2014
I also concur that you did the right thing. You aren't putting them in a tight spot, they have done that themselves. They should have nipped these tall tales/lies in the bud immediately.
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CraftyMom 11:51 AM 09-19-2014
Good for you!

I have never had this happen, but have run through it in my head, knowing how kids can be. I decided I would definitely term effective immediately if this type of thing happens here.

So what did your husband say? He must know about it now?
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momtomany74 11:52 AM 09-19-2014
Protecting your family and business should always come before the fear of putting a daycare family in a bad spot. Too bad the mom can't see the situation for what it really is. You did the right thing and I'm sure your hubby is happy you have his back.
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KIDZRMYBIZ 01:20 PM 09-19-2014
So surprised this thread is on here, after one dcm dropped off this morning!

DCG 20mo has been here only about a month. This morning, dcm asks me about a mark on her side. It is not small, and it is really weird looking - almost like a lash mark or something??

Well, it most definitely did not happen here, and it was not on her yesterday. It is low enough and large enough that I would have seen it at diaper changes.

I told dcm that, and decided to send her this e-mail today:

I wanted to inform you of the procedure that I follow regarding any accidents or incidents that occur in my childcare. Any time any child receives any injury, no matter how minor, while in my care, an incident report (created by the Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services) is filled out immediately following any first aid is administered. One copy I keep on file here, and one copy is sent home that same day. I have never, in 12 years plus, sent a child home with an unexplained boo-boo.

Now that you know my procedure, I do hope that you can trust that DCG will never have an unexplained mark on her that occurred at my house. Voicing doubt about how or whether an injury occurred with me potentially places my program in serious jeopardy. In order to protect myself, our conversation this morning has been documented. I will also have to look DCG's body over at drop-off and pick-up every day, in you or DCD's presence, noting the location and description of any marks on her body, until I feel that mutual trust has been achieved.


I used a few lines from this thread (thank you, poster!). Would you change anything?
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Dilley Beans 03:41 PM 09-19-2014
Unfortunately kids lying can be very damaging in today's world. People used to dismiss children, now that isn't right, but today everything they say is scrutinized. What if he had said anything else about your husband. If he watched the wrong thing on tv he could have replaced "picked up" with any number or inappropriate words and your entire family would have their world turned upside down. You did the right thing here, in today's world we have to be careful and CYOA. In the long run the DCPs will understand, you know after another provider or 2 terms him.
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sharlan 04:17 PM 09-19-2014
We all know how I feel about children lying. I would have also termed.

What this mother does not realize is that there are way too many chiefs for one little Indian. You have 3 1/2 days, a preschool has him 3 1/2 days, and another preschool has him 2 days. There is no consistency for him, every day is a different situation.
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crazydaycarelady 04:44 PM 09-19-2014
Originally Posted by :
I don't think I keep him on. The lies he may tell could destroy not only one's business, but put one's family in complete turmoil. What he is doing and the damage his words can inflict are serious.
This! and I speak from experience! I once had a 6yo fibber. The last straw was when he told his dad that my son cut his pants with a knife! Turns out he didn't want to get into trouble for ripping his pants himself. My son wasn't even hoe that day either!

Bub-Bye! I was not willing to keep that kid and open myself or my family up to other accusations even though they begged me to keep him.
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Thriftylady 10:07 PM 09-19-2014
You totally did the right thing. I speak from experience with a story I am not ready to tell here yet, just haven't been here long enough and it is a story I don't tell just everyone. But you should trust your gut on this, because a child who tells lies like this can ruin you. Trust me, I know.
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caregiver 12:33 PM 09-22-2014
Thanks everyone for your support with this situation! I know I did the right thing and feel in my heart it was the right way to go. Your all right, in this day and age, you do have to protect yourself and family when this kind of situation comes up.
I know I made them mad, but what bother's me is that this Mom just does not get the seriousness of her son telling these fibs and how it can effect others. She is just looking at it from her side and not a providers side. She just kept insisting I was making too much of it as it was just a little boy making up stories, but stories can hurt others and reputations.
Hope that this is a wake up call for them about their son and his behavior, but I highly doubt that they even think he is a problem. If any of you ever have this situation arise, please use your gut feeling and term.
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Solandia 07:28 AM 09-23-2014
I, too, have termed due to a fibber (technically, it was the mom's response), and did NOT term a fibber, even though that was actually a "worse" lie.

The one I termed was a little guy, 3.5yo, who insisted that there was a fire in my kitchen while he was here. Keep in mind, we JUST took a field trip to the fire department the week before...the kids had been playing "fireman" for days. Mom asked me every.single.day for a week "are you sure you didn't a a kitchen fire, even just burnt food". Can't really hide a fire, nor can you get rid of burnt food smell within hours. Anyway, I gave them 2 weeks and was just done...again...if you truly believe you child never, ever lies...I risk it.

The other kid was a 6yo who told his mom I locked him in the closet after school every day. Mom came to me & told me what he said, and asked me "what the heck are we going to do with him?! I know you didn't do this, but I don't know if I should punish, figure out WHY he is saying, or ignore?" In the end, he had to apologize, and had a serious "talking to" on the seriousness, and that if he lied again Miss Sola wouldn't let him come to her house anymore and they would put him in aftercare(which he hates). It worked out beautifully, that was just the start of a bunch of random "naughty" behaviors that resolved in a couple of months. We figured out early with the behaviors, that it was due to starting Kindie (all day), and not getting enough time with me as mom picked up about 15min after he got home from school....he was extremely attached to me and was very jealous that his toddler brother got to play at my house all day, and all he got was a snack & virtually no time to play. He went from being with here 7 hours a day to 15 minutes, it was a big struggle for him. Mom and I knew he loved my house, but didn't realize exactly how attached he was until then.

Good Luck, OP, I think you did the right thing...especially contacting your licensor about it.
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Shell 10:02 AM 09-23-2014
Originally Posted by KIDZRMYBIZ:
So surprised this thread is on here, after one dcm dropped off this morning!

DCG 20mo has been here only about a month. This morning, dcm asks me about a mark on her side. It is not small, and it is really weird looking - almost like a lash mark or something??

Well, it most definitely did not happen here, and it was not on her yesterday. It is low enough and large enough that I would have seen it at diaper changes.

I told dcm that, and decided to send her this e-mail today:

I wanted to inform you of the procedure that I follow regarding any accidents or incidents that occur in my childcare. Any time any child receives any injury, no matter how minor, while in my care, an incident report (created by the Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services) is filled out immediately following any first aid is administered. One copy I keep on file here, and one copy is sent home that same day. I have never, in 12 years plus, sent a child home with an unexplained boo-boo.

Now that you know my procedure, I do hope that you can trust that DCG will never have an unexplained mark on her that occurred at my house. Voicing doubt about how or whether an injury occurred with me potentially places my program in serious jeopardy. In order to protect myself, our conversation this morning has been documented. I will also have to look DCG's body over at drop-off and pick-up every day, in you or DCD's presence, noting the location and description of any marks on her body, until I feel that mutual trust has been achieved.


I used a few lines from this thread (thank you, poster!). Would you change anything?
this is great.
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Shell 10:03 AM 09-23-2014
OP, you did the right thing. You have to protect yourself and your business. Dcm got a much needed wake up call.
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hsdcmama 11:03 AM 09-23-2014
Originally Posted by care giver:
I am the original poster,so I need opinions if I am doing the right thing,
I will be terming this family as of tomorrow. I will be writing a letter today informing them my last day will be tomorrow. I am just to uncomfortable with this,none of what this kid said is true, but I don't trust this dcb anymore and what he will say to whom and if they don't know me and believe what he says. I'm not willing to put my reputation or my husbands on the line for a 4 yr old that makes up things as he obviously is not happy here. Am I doing the right thing or should I keep him and hope he doesn't make up things again?
This right here is reason enough to term. It seems very obvious that the child doesn't want to be at your house for whatever reason, and is trying to make you the middle-man/scapegoat so he can get his way with his mother.
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