Hi,

My son (4.5y) goes to a daycare center for ages 0-12. The center has nap time from 12-2pm. He started off napping pretty much every day (at age 3) and continuously gravitated to napping less and less. Now I feel lucky if he naps 1 day a week.

His teacher says that they don't expect everyone to nap, but they expect everyone to have a rest period where they lay on their mat. I am in constant communication with his teacher since he's has some days of disturbing others during nap time.

His teacher has told him that he doesn't have to sleep but he has to be quiet and still. I told her that the trick we use with him at home is "pretend you're asleep" and that I would prefer her to tell him that, especially if he is being a distraction, she can take away his privilege to quietly rest and he will now need to be still/eyes closed. I prefer that he sleeps, but I know you can't force someone to sleep if they are not tired. She has been using this "trick" the past week and it seems to have made an impact on his behavior during nap time (no reports of him being a disturbance), but he is still not sleeping. She tells me he will lay there for over an hour with his eyes shut and he's just not falling asleep.

He has a consequence if he does not fall asleep during nap time (no leap frog game). It's a big deal to him right now because his cousin just passed the game to him and he has only got to play with it one day so far.

I just want to get some input from people who are more experienced with kids/napping/sleeping. He has incredible difficulty falling asleep at night, too. I talk to his pediatrician about it and he is absolutely not concerned at all (although I'm considering a second opinion). I don't know if it's bad parenting on my part or if he's just a totally bad sleeper. I thought it was normal up until he was around 2 and his sleeping habits have not gotten any better.

I just feel bad that he is laying there for 2 hours, he says that he can "play with his hands" but he is not given a book or coloring page or anything to do while the other kids nap. Is that normal? At what point do you just decide a kid has outgrown napping and give him something else to do--at least for the second hour of nap time?

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Sounds like he has outgrown nap time. If he is tired, he would fall asleep, especially after being given over an hour to facilitate it. I would say that, since he may not need a nap, he has outgrown the program.

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So what would I do with him? They have me under the impression all daycares are required by licensing to have this rest period. Is that not true? I am in Utah. I have planned on keeping him at this center though their SA program until he ages out at age 12.

I can not enroll him in kindergarten because he is not 5.

I am trying to work with the daycare to help them as much as I can, but so often I am getting the report "he was so good except for at nap time". I wanted to make sure I've done everything I can before inquiring about an alternative to nap time with the director. I would REALLY him rather get the sleep, I don't feel he gets adequate sleep without nap time, but since he's not sleeping I don't know what is best for him.

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hmm, well, I am not sure. It sounds like your options may be limited, so I would peak with the daycare and see if you have any options first. Would he be allowed to do quiet activities/read/paint/ect, if he does not fall asleep within a certain time period. If they say no, then I would start looking for other care. Of course, a nanny can cost so much more, so if that is not an option and if there are no other programs you can try, I am not sure I have the answer for you. I wish I could be more help, but my only real advice is to find a program that fits you, so it may take some research, but I hope you can find something that works! Best wishes!

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Thank you. I also have a baby (which closes the pay gap for a nanny a bit), but I prefer group care for a lot of reasons.

I'll talk to them about other options, he still has 1 full year before kindergarten and that's a lot of mat time if he's not napping. Poor guy!

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Do they really say "good except for nap time"?

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Pretty much, yes. Sometimes it says that on his written report as well.

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Grrrr! Of course he is "so good except for nap time" as CLEARLY nap time is not provided in a developmentally appropriate way and to be honest I don't agree with their methods....the way I read the regulations for Utah it says:

R381--100-19 CHILD DISCIPLINE

Child discipline shall not include any of the following:
(e) forcing or with holding food, rest and/or toilet use.

Requiring them to lie perfectly still for 2 hours is ridiculous and in my honest opinion "forcing" rest. He is NOT capable (developmentally and humanly)of lying still for 2 hours and "pretending to be asleep".

I think they need to really re-think their nap/rest routines as their rules are rather inappropriate for the age group in which he is in.

Is he still with the older group or the younger group?

Either way, their requirement is not okay. I know they can say that the center might not be a good fit for him then and I know you aren't wanting to change but I do think a good heart to heart with the Director might be in order.

Even if you switched programs, what this one has going on is not appropriate for the age group.

I require ALL children I have in care (0-6 yrs old) to participate in rest time. For those that do not sleep, I play audio books so they have something to do.

I am 15X your son's age and I don't think I am capable of lying perfectly still for two hours.

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He moves to the older group starting Monday, but nothing changes in regards to nap time.

I am going to talk to the director about accommodations, but I wanted to see, first, if I could get him back in a napping routine.

Over the long weekend I WAS able to get him to nap. I REALLY do think he should have a nap, so I want to exhaust all my options in regards to turning him in to a napper again rather than get him on a no-nap plan with the daycare.

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This is the same place that was already not developmentally appropriate in expectations when doing activities right?.. Wasn't it already discussed here? I wouldn't want my kids in a place where they are called good or bad and the teachers make them do things they can't and then it's a problem. Am I mixing this up with another poster? I remember suggesting you look at one new place, just one, and see what might be different.

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Laying quietly at nap time should count as a nap. Whether he sleeps or not isn't really any of their business if he's not disturbing others...He is, in fact, resting as requested.

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I understand your dilemma. But he is getting to old for a nap especially if he is not taking one at this age. I don't have any advice as I believe it's perfectly normal for this to happen around this age. I'm confused as to why they don't have an alternative for him during this rest period other than lay there quietly for 2 hours. That doesn't seem appropriate.

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I'm wondering what they do with their 60-90 min nappers? They can't be claiming that every single child naps for 2 hours???? There is no way. I have a non-napper. He lays quietly until the first child wakes naturally. Then they are up to play quietly together. That's about an hour usually. I put him down LAST to reduce the amount of time he has to lay down....and he's at the age where he does still need the rest time. Otherwise I'd probably only make him lay down for about 30 min (long enough for me to have a little break) before letting him up.

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From what I understand talking with his teacher (this is his new teacher, by the way, a different teacher than he was with when he had problems) the kids lay quietly until the fall asleep.

Some kids fall asleep immediately, for some kids it takes them 30 minutes (therefore they get a 90 minute nap), and the ones that take an hour to fall asleep get a 60 minute nap. All of the kids are woke up at 2pm regardless of what time they fell asleep. When my son sleeps he has NEVER woken up prior to the 2pm wake up time.

I do not believe they have a lot of kids waking up before the 2pm mark. Once my son fell asleep at 1:55 only to be aroused at 2:00 and he was GRUMPY about that.

Laying quietly IS an option for him, but there have been a handful of times where he is not laying quietly. He wakes up his friends who he notices have fallen asleep by tapping them or calling their names. I understand that HE may have developmentally outgrown nap time, but he can not take that away from his peers. To me that is unacceptable.

I still have not inquired with his teacher about finding an alternative quiet activity for him. I wasn't sure if it was an appropriate request or if there is something else I can do to help him sleep. I really want him to have a nap, he could really use the sleep.

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Happymom, what is his bedtime? What is his wake time?

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8pm bedtime (but he takes 1-2 hours to fall asleep), wakes at 7:40am ( I wake him up, he would sleep much later if I didn't have to wake him)

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Then the simple option is to not have him where he can reach his friends....really rolling my eyes at his providers.

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It's a little sad to me that he gets a consequence for not falling asleep. That is something that is probably out of his control. It sounds like he's laying there with his eyes closed for a long time, especially for a kid his age. If they're not providing a quiet activity, he's probably doing the best he can. I was in a home dc at that age, and rarely fell asleep, but rested during nap. I think a consequence for not actually falling asleep is a bit harsh. But of course, that's just my opinion.

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I'm not sure why they give him multiple chances before they move him away from other kids.

I talked to the lead who was at the front desk about options for him if he doesn't fall asleep. It sounds like I just need to make a plan with his teacher as to how to handle it.

I try to treat it more as a reward for napping than a consequence for not napping, but it definitely goes both ways. Leap frog when he naps, and he is reminded he didn't earn his leap frog if he does not nap. My husband and I don't see 100% eye to eye because he thinks our son has control over whether he naps and choose not to nap/doesn't try hard enough...where I feel like if he's quiet and not waking his friends and he takes a rest; that's good enough for me.

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IMO He should get rewarded with the leap frog for laying quietly and resting, whether or not he sleeps should not be an issue. My dd gets rewarded for staying in bed at night, no matter how long it takes her to fall asleep.

Check out http://www.babysleepsite.com/

and

https://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Ame.../dp/006073602X

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Well, at that age, they need 10-13 hours of sleep. They usually try to get it all at night at 4.5. Thing is, they still NEED the naps in the daytime, but that can turn into a very late bedtime (as you already know).

The way I see it, you have two choices: adjust at home or adjust at childcare (find him a new one). I recently stopped requiring naps for the over 4 crowd, provided that they are quiet at naptime. Anyone gets loud, and they go to nap, too. It's been working. I set up something for them to do at the kitchen table (crafts, painting, play doh) or put on a movie for them at naptime if they can't go outside during nap (rain).

If you want to try something at home first, you might try bedtime an hour later AND wake time an hour earlier and see if that helps him take a nap at daycare. If he's taking 1-2 hours to fall asleep, he's not tired enough at bedtime. Napping at daycare could make this worse. You could give it a month long try and see if it helps. You've probably already tried it, but no screens for 90-120 minutes before bed can help, a warm bath, and reading some books or playing quiet games in the evening could help, too. Exercise after daycare could help (a hike, a trip to the park, swimming, a game of tag, etc.).

That's all I have for "advice". It's a tough situation for the parent and the provider-you both need him to sleep on YOUR terms, but find that he'll sleep on his own!

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Thank you for the advice, I will start waking him up earlier. It would be good for him (and me) to have more time at home in the morning anyway. He's always SO TIRED in the morning and grumpy.

If it helps him continue with naps through the year, great! If not, I can make a plan with his teacher as to what to do for him when he's not asleep by a certain time.

He's been sleep deprived in the past, so perhaps I'm trying to overcompensate at this point and maybe he just doesn't need as much sleep as I think he needs and it's not a big deal.

His teacher details his nap time now on his daily report "no nap but he was quiet", so I am trying to enforce with my husband that if we can count on him to have that rest and he's not disturbing others, we should show him that we're proud of him.

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Thank you to everyone who helped me work through this, by the way.

I appreciate it so much. I feel so much better about the days that he doesn't sleep. I'm going to do a better job in making sure that there is a policy in place for him where if he is not asleep in 60 minutes, he will be given a quiet activity to do AND NOT be forced to continue to try to fall asleep.

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I wonder if 8pm bedtime is too late if he is not napping during the day. He may be getting his second wind and be overtired which could be why he is awake for an hour or two when he goes to bed.
This is a good site for ideas of bed times.
http://www.sleepsisters.com/bedtimes-by-age/
Ages 3 - 6 says between 6pm to 8pm. Being four, maybe 6.30 - 7.00 might be something you could try.

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Those suggestions do not take into account at all what time the child is waking? Who are these people who wrote this website? My child sleeps 11-12 hours each night, plus 1-2 days a week he naps.

8pm is honestly difficult enough. I pick up the kids at 5:30, unpack, nurse the baby, make dinner, eat dinner, leave kitchen a mess around 7: get both kids in pajamas, nurse baby to sleep (while dad winds down/reads with my oldest). Since the kids share a room, my older doesn't lay down until baby is asleep.

Not trying to be rude, but honestly, these recommendations seem like a one-size-fits-all type solution and not realistic for a set of parents who both work. We already have a limited amount of time with them.

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Yes I disagree with that advice too. Cookie cutter bedtime is not what you need. Bedtime need to be based on wake up time.
He shares a room but is not falling asleep right away. Could there be something that bothers him? (shadow or noise) What would happen, if for a weekend you slept the baby in your room and let him sleep alone, would he fall asleep faster?
Have you every used lavender, sound machine or prayer to help him to relax?
If he is not falling asleep easily, then he may not be getting a restful night. Personally I am against waking him but I understand you must, but I would not wake him any earlier than you have to, when you do wake him, how do you do it? Slowly, or all at once? I would do it slowly, with lights and noise, let his body do the waking not you, it should improve his morning mood making for a better morning.

Children naturally wake at the same time, so if a child needs more sleep, it is recommend to adjust his bedtime not wake time.

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I am a little confused. You said you put him down at 8 now and it takes 1-2 hours to fall asleep. So he gets less that ten hours at night on average, especially when he doesn't nap. If you want to start waking him even earlier (which I don't think is a bad idea), then he should probably go down earlier. It sounds like there is just too much going on that is not really working with his natural schedule. He must wait for baby to go down and then share a room (does baby wake at night?). He must be awoken in the morning because you need to get work. He must fall asleep by 2 at naps, otherwise be woken up. He must rest quietly and try to sleep at times when he may not be tired, but when he is tired and sleeping, he gets woke up. I know it is tough, since you both work and want the time with your kiddos, but I think it may be best to get him down by 7pm and up by 7am. I know...easier said than done, but if he gets home, eats, bath, book, bed and he gets a good hour to fall asleep before baby comes to bed, he may go to sleep more quickly. Then wake him earlier and spend the morning having a great breakfast. Y the time nap rolls around at school, he may be tired enough to sleep or he may not, but at least he has a bed time that allows him 12 hours of time to get the job done, kwim? It is not one size fits all, but at his age (naps wont be an option in kindy), I would focus more on the night sleep than trying to "catch up" with nap sleep. You can guarantee he will go to bed every night, but you cannot guarantee the nap anymore, so work with the one that will benefit him most, which is great night sleep.

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Worst case he would get just under 10 hours of sleep. But most days he is asleep by 9 and some days I am able to get him in bed a bit early and he is asleep by 8:40 *these are the best days*

More often than not he is getting closer to 11 hours at night. My baby wakes up first, so I go in their shared room and open the curtains and start getting baby ready and in some cases it wakes up my 4 year old. Sometimes, it doesn't. Then I have to actually wake him.

I'm sorry I'm not great at using quotes on forums, but baby sometimes sleeps through the night, sometimes he doesn't. Lately he has been waking frequently.

While I can guarantee my kid will sleep every night, I can not guarantee he will be asleep by 8pm. We really do our best. If it were up to following his natural schedule, he would sleep at 10-10 every day and not have a nap. Not realistic because we work and his daycare has scheduled naps. He's such a night owl.

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What time did he fall asleep at home after his nap on the weekends? Can you push bedtime back and wake him earlier?

If not, and all else fails I would discuss options with the center- I stagger my kids to sleep. Youngest first, oldest last. Oldest is a 50/50 napper, but she gets books, puzzles, file folder games, or busy boxes on her mat and is quiet as a mouse either way. I also play books on CD.

If he doesn't nap, would they be open to him bringing a rest time activity? My 4yo dck is playing with empty plastic baby wipe container with a lego base glued to the underside and legos in it.

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Honestly, it sounds like you are doing everything you can, so I would try not to sweat it too much. He is laying quietly at nap and may need it some days (maybe on the days the baby was up frequently at night or whatnot), but some days, he may just need the quiet and then hopefully he would be able to get up and do quiet activities. I would aim for the 10-12 hours at night, which it sounds like he is getting, so naps would really be a day by day basis. The main point is that they give him the option to rest/sleep and his body will decide the rest. On days he does not fall asleep, I hope they give him other options to do quietly till nap is over.

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It was around 9pm that he fell asleep on the weekend when he was napping.

I was thinking of some quiet activities that I could bring for him on his mat. I downloaded some audio stories that I think he would enjoy listening to, I just need to find an old ipod I can put them on. I will talk to his teacher first.

He's had a stretch of good-at-nap-time days....on Friday he even slept for an hour at nap time.

Thank you all for your help.

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One more question. Do kids deliberately not sleep if they know they will be given an activity to do if they do not fall asleep?

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Back again.

My boy was very disruptive at nap time again yesterday. Note sent home "He was loud at nap, was throwing his blanket over the book shelf and making noise. He was told more than once to stop. We had to move the book shelf away from him because he would not leave it alone. He was great other than nap time." --- Then when he knows he is getting a bad report, I think he gets anxious, and he ate the collar of his favorite shirt! I feel so bad, because he kind of hears about it from both me and my husband and we both express our disappointment in his behavior. I don't know if it's causing him to eat his shirts.

I set up an old ipod for him and loaded it with audiobooks/stories from storynory. I talked to his teacher earlier this week and she thought it sounded like a great idea and we both talked to the director about it. We are all a little concerned that he will purposefully not nap so he can listen to his stories instead. Which, to me, that's fine. I'd rather have him well-behaved and taking a nice rest period while listening to his stories than a kid who is not tired and bored and a distraction during nap time.

I handed the ipod to his teacher this morning and her that "he doesn't know I sent this, please use it at a tool however you feel necessary".

Feeling stressed and worried, trying to evaluate my parenting. I really hope this gets better.

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I don't know your little guy but, if he doesn't usually chew on his shirts, I would take that as a sign that this situation has pushed him too far. Having to lay down and be quiet when you aren't tired for two hours would be really stressful for a child. Heck, that would be stressful for me. On top of that, he knows he's going to be in trouble with his trusted adults at school and then again at home. That would be a rough day for anyone.

I am guessing you really like his child care but, if really sounds like the situation just doesn't work for him anymore. From what you've described, it sounds like he would benefit from a child care that is willing to accommodate a quiet rest period for a non napper.

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I know. I feel so bad about the shirt chewing.

I am feeling good about the daycare being accommodating and open to alternatives to him. I'm really hoping that the ipod will help get him through nap time and keep him happy.

He ended up having a good night last night at home (after the bad report). Dad is a psychology major and much more in tune with my son's emotions than I am. He thinks we've made it a bigger deal than it needs to be and it is causing stress (the same thing happened during potty training). He's finally open to giving him his nap time reward (leap frog time) as long as he was well behaved during nap.

His teacher said she will give him the ipod once the majority of the kids have fallen asleep, but I really want to leave that up to her. If I tell him that's what she said he'll start being the little bossy know-it-all 4 year old that's inside of him. lol

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I agree with this. Clothes-chewing is a big indicator of stress. When stressed, I bite my fingernails, (they're currently nubs)

I LOVE the story on the ipod idea. I wouldn't care IF he slept AT ALL (even as a provider) as long as he let the other children rest. I have one 4 year old awake in between two other children right now. She's listening to the audio books I play, and doing a lacing activity (her chosing).

I have her rest for 30 minutes, and if she hasn't fallen asleep, she can do an activity (previously chosen).

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That's a good idea to work on getting some previously chosen activities for him in addition. I have lots of ideas. He's got a very long attention span if you give him something to do. But sleeping has never been his specialty.

I considered loading his ipod with some games, but I worry about something popping up and trying to download stuff and him getting frustrated not knowing how to exit out of it and causing a frustrated scene in the middle of nap. That wouldn't be good either, so I decided to keep it simple.

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Good news!

I had to pick up my infant (diarrhea) and my 4 year old was peacefully asleep on his mat when I got there!

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Wanted to come back and thank everyone for their advice on my situation.

I have provided an ipod with audiobooks (10-20 minute short stories) geared towards his age group. My son actually thinks it belongs to his teacher and that she lets him use it during nap time.

He hasn't napped once this week, but he's been quiet and resting during nap time every day. His behavior at home and at bedtime has been great. He understands that when he doesn't take a nap, he has to go to bed "a little bit earlier" and bed time has been much easier too.

So far the schedule is working out pretty well and hes been happy and no more instances of him chewing on his clothes!

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Back for more help.

My kid turns 5 in March. He's very very rarely sleeping at nap. He's a pill to get to bed at night. He has some anxiety surrounding sleep/dark that we are trying to address at home.

He had his audio books taken away (daycare's decision backed by me and dad), has been separated completely from his peers (in a corner with a shelf blocking his view of his best friend who distract each other), been offered books/coloring on his mat. He goofs off, and his teacher finally came to me that it has been an ongoing problem. He's been moved to the 3s classroom. He's had to sit in the office.

I'm just not sure what to do. Director is checking with licensing to see if he can go in with the kindergartners during nap. I'm in the waiting game. Licensing says naps until kindergarten (which is August here). Do they sometimes make exceptions?

Please let me know if you have any other ideas for me. I am desperate.

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After reading through this thread I honestly feel like this is bordering on abuse. He is chewing his shirt collar off? I just am so angry and sad for your son. No wonder he is having anxiety issues surrounding the dark and sleep. Sleep is not a pleasant experience for him anymore.

Why was the ipod taken away? It seemed to be working. Can he watch a movie or something?

I would be switching care providers or looking into getting him a nanny. Is this worth it?

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why do you think this is borderline abuse? i reread the thread and it sounds like the daycare is doing everything the parents are asking for (color books, ipod with audio, ect) so are you saying the parents are pushing things or the daycare He has outgrown his nap. period. The leap frog sounded like a privelege the parents are taking away so unless i am missing something, it doesnt seem that the dc is punishing him for not sleeping. it sounds more like they are trying everything to keep him quiet at nap and its not working and the parents are withholding priveleges if he comes home with a "bad" report. everyone is trying hard to fit a square peg in a round hole...its just not working. and now it is producing negative and stressfull behavior. It is not healthy for ANY of you to be so stressed over this. Do you have any other childcare options? Like an all day prek or a sitter that could help in the afternoons? im sorry i am not much help, but this does not seem like abuse to me, so i just hope you can figure something out that works for all of you.

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In my state a child would have to be allowed up and moving if they are not sleeping after a half an hour. And the new regs say a child who we know doesn't nap can't be made to lie down at all and there must be an alternate activity. I don't take/keep kids who don't need a nap or have outgrown nap for these reasons. But truthfully if I had a child/situation like the OP's and the parents complained to my licensing, *I* would be in cited.
I do wonder if the OP has any access to a program where napping is not a scheduled activity - maybe a junior K program?

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It sounds like he has outgrown nap and that the program is no longer a good fit for him. It sounds like you've all tried adapting/changing/etc and it isn't changing/getting better.

I know you have another one at the same centre but I agree with the suggestions to look for a preK program (or something similar) that doesn't require a nap/long rest period. I think I remember you saying that he starts school in the fall? It will be a good transition step for school, as well.

Good luck!

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^ this.

I would be cited by licensing. I do a rest period, if after 30 minutes my kids aren't asleep- they MUST be allowed to get UP.

My ONLY solution before pulling is if they would allow him either to go into the K room, OR if they could set him up with quiet activities in the corner after a brief rest period eg. NOT on a mat.

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Oh I see! I didn't realize it is against licensing as long as they were given an activity when they don't fall asleep. In that case, I guess I don't get why they would not just put him int he kindergarden room, if they don't require a nap time? It seems like the logical next step if they want to keep the kids and not break regulations.

Hopefully they will move him so you don't have to find other care, Happymom. Sorry this has been so stressful! And of course regulations need to be followed, but I certainly don't feel this is an abusive situation, as you have been made aware and have been trying to work with them. I really don't feel you would keep him in a place if you felt that way, so I think it is just a case of not a good fit. If they can move him into the kindy room, that would probably take care of all of it and be a great learning experience for him, since he starts in the fall. Hopefully, they can make that happen! Good luck Happy mom!

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I think it is abusive to have a child lying down for that length of time without sleeping. It is abusive. I am not blaming the daycare or the parents but if this was my kid I would be hella concerned that he chewed the collar off his shirt. I am sorry but that sends me a HUGE red flag of abuse. If my child ever came home in that state I would pull them immediately. I would go on assistance before I would allow my child to be in this situation where his anxiety levels were so high he chewed his clothes.

We have no clue what is being said or done to this child at the daycare centre. I have witnessed abuse at daycare centres concerning sleep time and the parents had no clue it was happening. Now this child has anxiety about sleeping?? Something needs to be done but it seems like everyone wants to just try solutions that are just not working and the kid is left in this abusive situation while the adults suss it out.

Sorry but this post made me pretty angry If no one else sees it as abusive thats fine, it is just my opinion but as a mom that would be a huge red flag for me personally.

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I kind of have to agree with Ariana here... it sounds like he is suffering some anxiety issues now and they weren't apparent until the issues with napping started happening.

To answer an earlier question you posted Happymom, yes...in my experience I have had kids purposely stay awake if they know they've only got to stay awake a little bit and then get a reward.

I also think your son may very well have just out grown needing a nap. He may need down time/quiet time still as we all do but actually napping may not be what he is needing at this point in his development. My own child slept very little and completely gave up daily naps in the second year of life. I too sleep very little but function like anyone else so sleep needs are definitely individual.

I think abuse is a strong word and I don't know all the details but I DO absolutely feel that a majority of the issues you are having now are direct results of this nap/rest struggle.

I think the teachers really need to spend some time observing him. What are the activities like prior to nap time. Is he excited about something coming up in the day, is he having trouble unwinding from "play" and struggling with the actual transition period...I have a couple kids that need long transition between activities and don't just move from one thing to the next as easily as other kids.

I don't know I am just thinking out loud here but it sounds like the whole situation is getting murky and some behaviors might be directly related to the attempts to fix the issue rather than being directly related to the issue. KWIM?

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I'm going to guess the center won't move him to the K room because tuition in the K room is likely much greater than in the daycare portion of the building.

I also want to add (and not sure of regulations now) when I worked in a center that had private Kindergarten, the children were still required to lay down. If after 30 minutes they weren't sleeping they could get up and do quiet activities, but the rest period was still required.

Happy mom, I think the best solution would be to do part time at the daycare and pick up before nap time. Maybe there is a local sitter who can do part time afternoon hours? Or perhaps there is a center with different nap policies then this one. Is working half days in the office and the rest at home an option for you or your husband? If so, maybe leave your little guy there for full days and pick up your oldest before nap, take him home get him set up with activities and finish your work from home? Then go pick up your little guy together?

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I totally understand! And I agree that it is just not working. The main reason I don't want to throw out the "abuse" word is because Happymom seems to be aware of what is going on and I she seems like a very proactive mother, so I feel like she wouldn't keep them there if it felt wrong, kwim? I thought that as long as they had an activity, they could hang out and quietly do it, but I agree that if he is being made to lay on a mat and not do anything for 2 hours, that is not right. The battle has led to stress and anxiety for all involved, which is not healthy, so I hope they can work something out. And on the same note, if Happymom feels it is an abusive situation, I really hope she finds new care for both children and makes it aware to licensing that they are violating rest time regulations. A full day prek or a sitter/nanny may be the best option.

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I don't find it to be abusive. If he weren't being disruptive to the sleeping children, there wouldn't be a problem. The audio books were taken away because he would pretend to listen to them. As soon as the teacher looked the other way he'd take off the headphones and run across the room and try to be sneaky, tap his friends, purposefully try to keep them awake.

I agree that he has outgrown nap time. The ONLY thing daycare says stopping them from moving him is getting permission from licensing.

The rates for the K room and the pre-k are the same, (daycare center does not teach kindergarten, but they transport to morning and afternoon K at local public schools). Rates won't go down again for him until he starts 1st grade.

I'm sending an email to the owner today to see if I can expedite things with her, right now everything is going through the director as a middle man, and then her.

Yesterday he came home with a good report, hopefully he does today as well. He is extremely smart but also is showing obsessive compulsive tendencies. He's a really good boy though. At home he has no problem sitting and doing a quiet activity for a few hours at a time. He loves play doh, making patterns with his wood blocks, beading, art/coloring/painting. Activities are limited if he's on his mat, but if he could move to a table, he has a very long attention span.

I'll keep you guys updated. When he was almost 4.5 and had outgrown the 3s room I tried very hard to get him moved to the 4s room early and was unsuccessful.

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Hi Owner/Director,

I've been working with my son, Teacher and Director on a problem we have been having during nap time. I think we are at a point where it is not going to get better.

My son outgrew naps some time ago, he will turn 5 in March. I know many children his age are still napping, but he is having a hard time being forced to stay on his mat for 2 hours, 5 days a week. That's a very long time for a little person. We have been working on this issue very diligently since September. Kevin earns privileges at home if he takes a nap.

He is now having a lot of anxiety surrounding nap time, I think it perpetuates him to act out during rest period. Several days he has come home from Center having chewed on the neckline to his shirt, ruining it. We have tried several things: I sent audio books for him to listen to, but Teacher took it away when he continually got up off his mat when she wasn't looking at him. My son continued fooling around and attempting to keep his friends awake to the point that Teacer had to separate him to a corner and block his view of the other kids with a shelf. He has been sent to the 3s room (as punishment) as well as the front office because he continues to misbehave during nap.

I need another option for him. While I would love it if he napped and I continue to support Center's schedule and rest period, this is no longer working for him. I talked to Teacher and Director about possibly moving him in with the kindergartners during the rest period. They told me this needs to be approved by you and licensing. We can not do another eight months of this. If I can't find a solution soon, I'm going to have to find alternative care for him. From my perspective, he does not need naps offered anymore.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter. I would really hope he can be exempt from naps starting on Monday if possible.

Thank you

Please let me know if you think it sounds too mean/unwilling to work with them.

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**edited some things to include limited outdoor play this time of year, and remove the ultimatum of finding alternative care.

This letter has been sent as of now =) so no need to provide suggestions! Thanks

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Yes, I agree with you, this is a form of abuse. There is a fine line with abuse and I find that most do not see it until it gets out of hand. I did not consider it until you point it out. Thank you for opening my eyes on this.

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I agree with the letter. Good job, and good luck! How many older children are at the center? I find it hard to believe that he is the only one not napping, kwim? Maybe they need to allow him to rest for a bit, and then have a quiet room set up for non nappers to be supervised.

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His class is about 10 kids. These are all children who will be starting kindergarten in August, the layout has the 3s and the 4s room connected by a large opening (no doors) and there are about 10 kids in that room, too.

Right now there is no place for non-nappers to go during nap time. Staff has expressed to me that they wish there was.

I'm not sure how many SAs there are in the center, but I'd say at least 15. The center at capacity is 100 kids.

I received an email response over the weekend saying she will consider my request, look at ratios and will be working on this. Fingers crossed she can accommodate.

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Update:

Today he was able to move to be with the kindergartners. The assistant director just came in and got him as if he were being picked up to go home, and took him in with the bigger kids to rest with them instead.

They have more options in there, most of those children don't sleep (although they are still given the option of a cot/mat if they want to).

The director called me today to discuss. Saying she is worried if other students/parents learn she is doing this for my son...they will expect it, too.

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She needs to re-examine her rest time policy for older children, IMHO. If there are other children not resting- they should be allowed to get off of their mat after a short time to play or do quiet activities. It's not appropriate for a child to lay awake and do nothing for 2 hours/day/5 days a week.

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I think you are right. I'll continue working on it with the center =)

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