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  #1  
Old 12-05-2014, 04:22 PM
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Question Cry It Out How Long Is Too Long For 2 Year Old?

How long is too long for a two year old to cry it out? Is 30 mins unreasonable? Daycare family wants me to go in and rub daycare boys back and tell him it's ok after ten minutes. they said anything after ten minutes is neglect in their eyes.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2014, 04:27 PM
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Here are some more threads on CIO: http://daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=cio
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2014, 04:28 PM
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I wouldn't keep him then. I don't see it as neglect to "train" him. They do, so they have "trained" him to cry. Fighting this battle with my son and grandson because my son thinks if he crys at all it is abuse. They also think that at 11 months old, letting him feed himself is to messy so you put food in front of him and he opens his mouth like a little bird. Some parents are just not worth the hassle.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:29 PM
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I agree with Thrifty.

Also, IMO, at that age it's not even CIO... it's simply tough love. Wth are we in for with this generation of kids that get instant gratification and are never allowed to realize they don't get everything they want?! It's terrifying.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:53 PM
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Yep. I don't consider it cio at 2 either. I have to check sleeping children every 15min though.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2014, 07:48 PM
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My daughter is 20 months and I will let her cry for about 10 min and then go and check on her. I will NOT take her out of her crib. Taking them out of their beds is the WORST thing you can do. I pat her back to reassure her and then tell her to lay down. She will usually lay down with her bunny and let me cover her up. Usually when she realizes that I'm not going to take her out she will calm down.
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:23 PM
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Tell them he will need a nap assistant for ten minute back rubs and consolation. You can hire one for ten bucks an hour bit they must pay for it upfront every week on top of their tuition. That's only for the time it takes him to adjust BUT with that technique there is a very good chance he won't ever adjust so plan on paying it for a few years.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2014, 07:29 AM
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They only want me to let him cry for ten minutes not rub his back for ten minutes. After ten minutes of crying they want me to go rub his back and tell him it's ok. They think he is scared which he is not. This kid also has bad stranger anxiety and they know they can't put him in a different daycare because he would freak out. I had a meeting with both parents last night I told them I would rub his back only because it's what they needed to hear in reality it won't ever happen. I kept rolling my eyes the dad made sure to mention my eye rolling to me. These people need to get in touch with reality. I pray they don't have any more kids.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:26 AM
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How long has this child been with you? Tell them what your naptime habits are and don't change a thing for his kid. Whether they'll be fine with that or you can live with a crying 2 yo, it's all up to you. But someone has developed some poor falling asleep habits for this little guy and no one will benefit from that. If they want to continue then maybe they'll have to stay home with him and do it themselves or hope you(and they because they need to be on board with this too)can turn him around. Is he placed with the other dcks at naptime? Sometimes that helps if they can see others and know they're not alone or sometimes it doesn't matter. Is he in a p'n'p or on a mat/cot?

I had to give up on trying to have a 12 month old fall asleep on her own, she'd cry all day, following me while trying to muckle onto my legs while I tried to get things done. She was held as much as I could hold her and I'd go in during naptime to rub her back and try to quiet her down. But she'd be screaming and so so tired the rest of the day. Funny thing is that when she was about 16-17 months old dcps asked me again if I could take her. I said yes, and she's perfect!! I feel guilty for letting a center do all the hard work and I got the sweet happy toddler.

Had to chuckle that dcd caught you rolling your eyes at him.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:33 AM
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I've had him since he was 3 months old. He naps fine he sleeps on a cot despite parents wishes to keep him in a crib for as long as possible. He has screaming crying fits when he does this I make him go lay down until he stops. Parents don't want me to let him cry too damn bad he needs to learn how to calm himself on his own.
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I've had him since he was 3 months old. He naps fine he sleeps on a cot despite parents wishes to keep him in a crib for as long as possible. He has screaming crying fits when he does this I make him go lay down until he stops. Parents don't want me to let him cry too damn bad he needs to learn how to calm himself on his own.
I was one of those parents with my first. That's when I opened my daycare. I would have made a horrible dcparent!!
He will cry, especially in a group situation where he is not always catered to. I don't think that's a bad thing, now to convince the parents!
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:43 AM
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I kept rolling my eyes the dad made sure to mention my eye rolling to me. These people need to get in touch with reality. I pray they don't have any more kids.
There is zero respect between you and this family.
You don't respect their wishes and they certainly don't respect you.
I think this relationship has run it's course.
They have certain parenting beliefs/wishes, which is their right to do and you have certain rules/routines, which is your right.
Neither seems to be cohesive so IMHO, it's time to replace this family so that you can find one you can work WITH (not against) and they can find a program that WILL provide the care/services they want and need.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2014, 10:55 AM
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They can parent how ever they wish and I will run my daycare as I wish! I care for 12 children and I will not cater to a two year old screaming I will not rub is back and tell him it's ok because guess what it's not ok! He will only learn that if I cry someone will be here in ten minutes to calm me down. He needs to learn to calm himself down!
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2014, 11:58 AM
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That is a tantrum and has nothing to do with crying it out. He is not an infant.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2014, 12:15 PM
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His parents are the type to cry if they see their son cry. He has no idea how to calm himself down because anytime he crys they are there to comfort him. That method won't worl for daycare. He is 23 months but it's more like caring for a 12 month old they are not doing this kid any favors!
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
That is a tantrum and has nothing to do with crying it out. He is not an infant.
I agree 100%. I would try to condition him to realize that only NOT CRYING gets him the attention he is seeking,
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2014, 04:18 PM
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They can parent how ever they wish and I will run my daycare as I wish! I care for 12 children and I will not cater to a two year old screaming I will not rub is back and tell him it's ok because guess what it's not ok! He will only learn that if I cry someone will be here in ten minutes to calm me down. He needs to learn to calm himself down!
You just proved my point.

They can parent however they wish (which I said is their right)
You can run your daycare as you wish (which I said is your right)

You said you will not cater to a two year old screaming...which I said, you are not resecting their wished. (I didn't say you have to agree with them)

You said in a previous post that said "I had a meeting with both parents last night I told them I would rub his back only because it's what they needed to hear in reality it won't ever happen." which again, proves my point....you don't respect their wishes and they think NOT doing what they asked as neglect.

The relationship is not cohesive. They want "X" and you aren't willing to provide what they want for their child. They think view that as neglectful. You can't be much further apart in your lines of thinking.

Personally, I agree those who said, its not CIO, it's more of a tantrum or a two year old doing what two year olds do; protest when they don't get their way.

Ideally, you should be in a working relationship with the family to meet their needs.

If you can't meet their needs or won't provide the services they want, then it's time to let them go. If you can't find a compromise WITH them verses just doing your own thing without their knowledge, then there is something wrong with that.

Ultimately, the parents will feel you are neglecting their child (NOT saying you are but they "think" you will be if you let him cry) and withdraw from your care and more than likely file a report with licensing if you are licensed.
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2014, 06:48 PM
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I think the fact that you lied to them is creepy... No matter what the specifics are. I'd be concerned that you're being dishonest with other parents. What are the odds you agree with all eleven other parents?
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2014, 08:38 PM
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I think the fact that you lied to them is creepy... No matter what the specifics are. I'd be concerned that you're being dishonest with other parents. What are the odds you agree with all eleven other parents?
I don't know if I'd go so far as creepy, but it doesn't sit right with me. So I kind of agree with Elko. And also with PP who said perhaps the relationship has run its course.

Is dcb separated from everyone else? I would probably make a plan to start with 10 minutes on one day, then next day wait 11 in between rubbing his back, then 12, then 13, etc. Or I might handle it altogether differently and just sweetly say, "You're alright, dcb, see you after nap", every 5 minutes, and then stretch that out to longer and longer.

It's really rare for me to have everyone down and sleeping. I don't really get down time or prep time. Either the baby is off schedule, someone has a cold or non-excusable illness and can't sleep, slept too much the night before, etc, etc. So here in my dc, I'm just used to spending more time with the kids who can't nap.
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:16 AM
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I think lying to them is not ok. They think letting him cry is neglect... I certainly wouldn't lie to them and go ahead and do what a family considers neglect. That just screams trouble to me.

Also, I think it was very unprofessional for you to sit there and roll your eyes during a meeting with a family.

I agree with PP. Term and replace. Neither of you are a good fit for each other.
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  #21  
Old 12-08-2014, 08:54 AM
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This isn't nap time crying and screaming this is all the time walking around the play room crying and screaming. When he does this I remove him from the group to cry in his pnp.
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You just proved my point.

They can parent however they wish (which I said is their right)
You can run your daycare as you wish (which I said is your right)

You said you will not cater to a two year old screaming...which I said, you are not resecting their wished. (I didn't say you have to agree with them)

You said in a previous post that said "I had a meeting with both parents last night I told them I would rub his back only because it's what they needed to hear in reality it won't ever happen." which again, proves my point....you don't respect their wishes and they think NOT doing what they asked as neglect.

The relationship is not cohesive. They want "X" and you aren't willing to provide what they want for their child. They think view that as neglectful. You can't be much further apart in your lines of thinking.

Personally, I agree those who said, its not CIO, it's more of a tantrum or a two year old doing what two year olds do; protest when they don't get their way.

Ideally, you should be in a working relationship with the family to meet their needs.

If you can't meet their needs or won't provide the services they want, then it's time to let them go. If you can't find a compromise WITH them verses just doing your own thing without their knowledge, then there is something wrong with that.

Ultimately, the parents will feel you are neglecting their child (NOT saying you are but they "think" you will be if you let him cry) and withdraw from your care and more than likely file a report with licensing if you are licensed.
This.
I had a family of three kids. It was their first day care experience and they cried all day, every day for the time they were here. The oldest boy was almost 4...I set up a spot for them to cry with a "you can join us when you are ready!" At the end of the day the parents did NOT understand why I couldn't hold three kids all day long to get them to stop crying, and I gave notice. I would never tell a parent I will do something I can not, as it just sets me up for failure or worse.
Also, not sure if you are licensed, but putting a child in a PNP other than sleeping times can be considered abuse per licensing. I'd be very careful about that. Much better to set up a spot and label it "the feelings corner" or even "the crying chair" where you can still see the child. Putting a child away in a PNP (for any reason other than sleeping) in my state would be a big no-no.
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:10 PM
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This isn't nap time crying and screaming this is all the time walking around the play room crying and screaming. When he does this I remove him from the group to cry in his pnp.
Ok...I hate to say it, but that may very well be a problem.

You are using his pnp as a punishment, and so when it's nap time, he thinks he's being punished.

I see you have TWELVE children by yourself? That's a huge group!

I don't rub backs or encourage temper tantrums, but I do my best to make nap a positive, happy experience. Each kiddo has their blanket, maybe a lovey or pacifier, and they get tucked in, get their hair stroked or their back rubbed for a few seconds, and some comforting words. I also never, ever put a child in a bed unless it's to sleep. "Calming spots" are somewhere else.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2014, 11:31 AM
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Ok...I hate to say it, but that may very well be a problem.

You are using his pnp as a punishment, and so when it's nap time, he thinks he's being punished.

I see you have TWELVE children by yourself? That's a huge group!

I don't rub backs or encourage temper tantrums, but I do my best to make nap a positive, happy experience. Each kiddo has their blanket, maybe a lovey or pacifier, and they get tucked in, get their hair stroked or their back rubbed for a few seconds, and some comforting words. I also never, ever put a child in a bed unless it's to sleep. "Calming spots" are somewhere else.
I agree with Heidi. It also sounds like a 30 min. Time out. A time out should only be one minute per year of age. I like a calming spot that is also considered a time in. Children have little self regulation and small children have less. It sounds like this little guy is very much unable to self regulate and needs to be connected with you. Isolation is not the answer! He may be crying a lot, I had a 3 yr old dcg that would this. I think kids like this need a soft, cozy spot with fleece pillows to hug and other calming items, wind up music box stuffed animal, squishy balls, water wands, sensory items. Does this work all the time? No! But it does works more often than not, and some kids send themselves to the cozy coner to wind down and de-stress.

I know it's hard to listen to. I've been through it too. I do offer to connect with the child after the child has calmed a bit. I try to help them work through it. In this way, I'm hoping the crying jags lesson. And it's a win/win. I try not to require they tough it out, unless my coming over to the settle them down gets them crying louder. Then I leave them to cry. They are away from the group, but not in another room alone.

I want my kiddos to feel a connection, not a disconnect. I follow Dr. Laura Markham's model on time in. I want to give them the tools to settle themselves down sooner than later.

I also try to connect each day with each child with high fives, smiles, encouragement and hugs.
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