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Old 02-14-2012, 07:39 AM
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Default Getting Ready for Kindergarten

This thread was part of another one and started having a mind of it's own off topic from the OP's original intent, so I created a new thread about this topic to be respectful of original poster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SandeeAR View Post
Blackcat, I've always valued your opinion on these boards. I'm sure you have posted this before, But I'll admit, I just don't remember. Do you work with teaching your kids colors, shapes, numbers, letters. worksheets and cutting etc, to have them ready for preschool?

My dck's learn those things through play. I do not have a specific curriculum that teaches them those skills. Those skills come naturally based on the experiences and opportunities I provide for them. In the words of Einstein "I never teach my pupils; I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn."

I don't feel qualified to have them kindergarten ready. I tell my parents by 4, they should move to a preschool. They are qualified to get them ready for kindergarten. We basically play here. I will do shapes and colors, with they toys (shape sorters, blocks, etc). I don't teach them to write their names (I don't want to teach them the wrong way to make letters).

To me, being ready for Kindergarten means understanding how to take turns, wait in line, follow directions, empathize with your peers, think a bit from their perspective, being respectful, listen to the adult and know what your responsibilties are in specific situations. It doesn't mean knowing how to count or write your name or anything else academic. Those things come naturally. My job is to prepare them for kindergarten in a foundational way not an academic one.
I answered in bold

Last edited by Blackcat31; 02-14-2012 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:51 AM
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I agree with you about the kinder thing, but every state has different requirements. In CA you need to be able to write your first middle and last name. Count to 20, count 10 objects, know site and sound all letters of the alphabet both upper and lower case.

Math. Children need to know very basic algebra. For example if there is a pie cut into 4, one piece is missing, they need to know 1/4 of the pie is missing.

There's a lot more. Here I don't think a child could go straight to kinder without proper preparation.

In CA they say that the new kinder is the old first grade.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I agree with you about the kinder thing, but every state has different requirements. In CA you need to be able to write your first middle and last name. Count to 20, count 10 objects, know site and sound all letters of the alphabet both upper and lower case.

Math. Children need to know very basic algebra. For example if there is a pie cut into 4, one piece is missing, they need to know 1/4 of the pie is missing.

There's a lot more. Here I don't think a child could go straight to kinder without proper preparation.

In CA they say that the new kinder is the old first grade.
That's where parents come in. If I am not paid to teach the children these things, I do not feel I should be required to do it...kwim? The state cannot require children to learn this stuff from a child care provider unless they are some how compensating you to do so.

May or may not be true, but that is my opinion on the subject. There are many providers from Cali on this forum and you all do things very differently so I can't see how your state could require the kids to know this stuff, at least not at the hands of a child care provider...not unless they are training you in how to do it.

FWIW~ 99.9% of my kiddos do that stuff before they head to school. I just do not teach it in a structured curriculum manner. I have the teaching degree and know "how" to teach the kids as a Kindy teacher would but I am licensed as a family child care provider so I provide care. Nothing more and nothing less. The care I provide however, offers many learning opportunities and experiences for the children.

Which further makes my point...if the environment is correct (or develomentally appropriate), the learning comes naturally.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 02-14-2012 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I answered in bold
Thanks, Blackcat. I do that too. However, our local Kindergartens require that they know the following before entering...(This is just part of the list).....The first few are no problem in my daycare. The rest, for those, how are they suppose to learn them without a preschool? Maybe, just having littles, I don't see them learning it through just play in our daycares. I just don't ever, want to hold a kid back from learning.



Use self help skills (button, zip etc.)
Listen to stories
Play with rhyme
Use materials, tools (lego, play-doh, scissors, crayons, etc.)
recognize some letters of the alphabet
Recognize their first name in print and write them
Make marks and pictures that look like writing
Count objects to 10
count aloud to 20
recognize numbers 0-10
Write number 0-5
Make set of objects (ex: 8 blocks)
Sort by color, size shape.
Identify colors
Identify shapes
use pairs of opposite words (big/little, hot/cold)
Follow simple directions
Use numbers that have personal meaning to them (phone number, address, birthday, age)
Identify patterns
Practice and understnadscience lab safety
Identify seasons, weather, temperature

Remember, this is only about half the list. My question is. If we aren't doing preschool (and I don't) How are we expect these kids to be ready for Kindergarten, straight from us? How do your kids "learn" all these things just through play? What am I not preparing for? (Right now, mine are all just learning to talk LOL).
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I agree with you about the kinder thing, but every state has different requirements. In CA you need to be able to write your first middle and last name. Count to 20, count 10 objects, know site and sound all letters of the alphabet both upper and lower case.

Math. Children need to know very basic algebra. For example if there is a pie cut into 4, one piece is missing, they need to know 1/4 of the pie is missing.

There's a lot more. Here I don't think a child could go straight to kinder without proper preparation.

In CA they say that the new kinder is the old first grade.

before they let you attend kindergarten?????? or they earn that in kindergarten?


as far as the wrong way to teach a child to write their name... do not worry about that. just teach lower case letters and only one Capital. the method of hand writing is easily changed.

For active boys have safe things to do. lots of active play jump dance roll around
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I agree with you about the kinder thing, but every state has different requirements. In CA you need to be able to write your first middle and last name. Count to 20, count 10 objects, know site and sound all letters of the alphabet both upper and lower case.

Math. Children need to know very basic algebra. For example if there is a pie cut into 4, one piece is missing, they need to know 1/4 of the pie is missing.

There's a lot more. Here I don't think a child could go straight to kinder without proper preparation.

In CA they say that the new kinder is the old first grade.
Our state is the same way! The teachers at our elementary school know the children that come from my childcare because they are ready for kindergarten. They are very appreciative of the kids knowing this stuff because it then leaves time for the stuff they have to teach. There is little time to learn all the basics.

As far as parents teaching them, many parents are unaware that they need to learn all these things before entering. Many think it is a social place of learning, with basic academics. There was a big shift between my first three and my last one in kindergarten. My first ones had tubs of stuff they brought home over the year (art work, special projects, special day things). My last one may had a fourth of a file box of things they did. It was very sad-
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:21 AM
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Somehow "Kindergarten preparation" has become a huge deal in early childhood. Somehow our country has been led to believe that the children must be made ready for Kindergarten when in fact Kindergarten should be made ready for the children.
Even if we accept the status quo, it is still impossible to make sense of long lists of "readiness skills." If an eligible 5 year old does not have these skills should he or she be deemed unready and not be allowed to enroll? If the answer to that is yes, then what happens to this child? They spend another year in preschool/child care/sitting at home and show up again the next year. What if he or she still doesn't have those skills? A public school cannot turn away a child once they reach the mandatory enrollment age. In NY for example, the mandatory enrollment age is 6 though most children attend Kindergarten at age 5. If a six year old "fails" the readiness test, they still must be enrolled by law. All teachers must teach a wide range of abilities, so why bother determining who is "ready." All children should enroll, be screened, and then taught based on their skills and abilities. Some children are lucky enough to have parents/caregivers/teachers as young children who read to them, talk to them, and engage them in stimulating experiences thus allowing them to gain necessary skills. Not all children are this lucky. Should they then be further hurt by being deemed unready for PUBLIC school?
Ok, sorry. This topic just makes my blood boil!
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:30 AM
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My kids are like Blackcats. If a parent wants me to "prepare" their child for school, I charge $30 per hour for tutoring. I'd be more than happy to do that for that rate. LOL
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daycare View Post
I agree with you about the kinder thing, but every state has different requirements. In CA you need to be able to write your first middle and last name. Count to 20, count 10 objects, know site and sound all letters of the alphabet both upper and lower case.

Math. Children need to know very basic algebra. For example if there is a pie cut into 4, one piece is missing, they need to know 1/4 of the pie is missing.

There's a lot more. Here I don't think a child could go straight to kinder without proper preparation.

In CA they say that the new kinder is the old first grade.
Daycare, do you have a source for this? I have looked for CA's K requirements, but have not seen anything like this. I would like to have the Dept of Ed's list if it is available.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
That's where parents come in. If I am not paid to teach the children these things, I do not feel I should be required to do it...kwim? The state cannot require children to learn this stuff from a child care provider unless they are some how compensating you to do so.

May or may not be true, but that is my opinion on the subject. There are many providers from Cali on this forum and you all do things very differently so I can't see how your state could require the kids to know this stuff, at least not at the hands of a child care provider...not unless they are training you in how to do it.

FWIW~ 99.9% of my kiddos do that stuff before they head to school. I just do not teach it in a structured curriculum manner. I have the teaching degree and know "how" to teach the kids as a Kindy teacher would but I am licensed as a family child care provider so I provide care. Nothing more and nothing less. The care I provide however, offers many learning opportunities and experiences for the children.

Which further makes my point...if the environment is correct (or develomentally appropriate), the learning comes naturally.
I agree 100%

I looked up my states pre-k standards, and showed my parents (on my blog) how we meet each and every one of them through PLAY.

You'd be amazed by what they are learning by just offering meaningful, relevant, and purposeful experiences everyday.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandeeAR View Post
Thanks, Blackcat. I do that too. However, our local Kindergartens require that they know the following before entering...(This is just part of the list).....The first few are no problem in my daycare. The rest, for those, how are they suppose to learn them without a preschool? Maybe, just having littles, I don't see them learning it through just play in our daycares. I just don't ever, want to hold a kid back from learning.



Use self help skills (button, zip etc.)
Listen to stories
Play with rhyme
Use materials, tools (lego, play-doh, scissors, crayons, etc.)
recognize some letters of the alphabet
Recognize their first name in print and write them
Make marks and pictures that look like writing
Count objects to 10
count aloud to 20
recognize numbers 0-10
Write number 0-5
Make set of objects (ex: 8 blocks)
Sort by color, size shape.
Identify colors
Identify shapes
use pairs of opposite words (big/little, hot/cold)
Follow simple directions
Use numbers that have personal meaning to them (phone number, address, birthday, age)
Identify patterns
Practice and understnadscience lab safety
Identify seasons, weather, temperature

Remember, this is only about half the list. My question is. If we aren't doing preschool (and I don't) How are we expect these kids to be ready for Kindergarten, straight from us? How do your kids "learn" all these things just through play? What am I not preparing for? (Right now, mine are all just learning to talk LOL).
Can you post the law or where the state says this is a requirement to enter kindergarten?

Does anyone in any state that has Kindergarten educational standards REQUIREMENTS for entry please post a link to the actual law or regulation.

I am absolutely SHOCKED to hear there are states REQUIRING it meaning if the child does not have these skills they can't go into kindergarten. That's what I'm after... showing what the law is and the consequence for the child's enrollment into public school if they don't have it.

Not private... just public school please.

I wonder when I read these kinds of posts if there isn't a possiblity that the state is saying this is what they WANT the kids to have but not that they MUST in order to attend kindergarten. In my state the state law REQUIRES allowance into kindergarten at age five (by september 15th of that school year) with absolutely NO......... none........... zero qualifiers except being born by that day and being at least five. If the child is six by sept fifteenth and they haven't been enrolled in school you are breaking the law. You have to enroll them in the school by this age or prove you are homeschooling them.

I can't imagine the lawsuits in my state if one of the schools didn't allow a child into kindy because the didn't have these skills. Even ONE of them being required would start lawsuits to the point the district would be bankrupt in a couple of years.

We have kids entering out schools who don't speak a word of english, aren't potty tranined, and have serious behavioral and mental health issues and they can't refuse them entry into kindergarten. Now they may end up in special classes or get a treatment plan for whatever they have issues with but if they aren't causing a harm to themselves or others they are in with NO prerequisites.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh View Post
Daycare, do you have a source for this? I have looked for CA's K requirements, but have not seen anything like this. I would like to have the Dept of Ed's list if it is available.
I got it from my school district website... BTW my school district is currently a PI school and is on state take over...Our requirements may be different than other counties because of this.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:31 AM
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This topic just makes my blood boil!
You and me both!!!!
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Can you post the law or where the state says this is a requirement to enter kindergarten?

Does anyone in any state that has Kindergarten educational standards REQUIREMENTS for entry please post a link to the actual law or regulation.

I am absolutely SHOCKED to hear there are states REQUIRING it meaning if the child does not have these skills they can't go into kindergarten. That's what I'm after... showing what the law is and the consequence for the child's enrollment into public school if they don't have it.

Not private... just public school please.

I wonder when I read these kinds of posts if there isn't a possiblity that the state is saying this is what they WANT the kids to have but not that they MUST in order to attend kindergarten. In my state the state law REQUIRES allowance into kindergarten at age five (by september 15th of that school year) with absolutely NO......... none........... zero qualifiers except being born by that day and being at least five. If the child is six by sept fifteenth and they haven't been enrolled in school you are breaking the law. You have to enroll them in the school by this age or prove you are homeschooling them.

I can't imagine the lawsuits in my state if one of the schools didn't allow a child into kindy because the didn't have these skills. Even ONE of them being required would start lawsuits to the point the district would be bankrupt in a couple of years.

We have kids entering out schools who don't speak a word of english, aren't potty tranined, and have serious behavioral and mental health issues and they can't refuse them entry into kindergarten. Now they may end up in special classes or get a treatment plan for whatever they have issues with but if they aren't causing a harm to themselves or others they are in with NO prerequisites.
Nannyde, I know that as of a couple of years ago the list here in our state was what was the children SHOULD accomplish before entering K. I don't believe any school can deny admission based upon the fact that a child doesn't, for example, know how to count to 20. Basically, it is just a way to attempt to make formal education start earlier, IMO. I tried to find some specifics about it online for my state but could not. I think the lists even vary by school district here.......
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Can you post the law or where the state says this is a requirement to enter kindergarten?

I do not have a "law" that states this. My kids are all grown. I'm getting this off of a sheet a parent had when her oldest DD was getting ready for kindergarten. (I had the younger sibling)

To me, Prerequisites and Requirements are the same thing.


The sheet states:

Prerequisites: Before entering kindergarten, students should be able to.......then goes on to list 4 pages of stuff, including the things they will learn "during" kindergarten.


This sheet does state "should". However, we all know the kid that comes in "not" knowing those things will be considered behind. I just wouldn't want any child from my daycare going in behind.

Since I do not consider myself a teacher. I feel they should move to a larger center at age 4. Since most have been with me since 6-8 weeks, by then I have taught them the basics of behavior and how to treat others etc. It is time for someone else to teach the numbers, letters etc.

Last edited by SandeeAR; 02-14-2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:47 AM
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Default I was gonna say...

Public school is mandatory for all children in all states. Just depends on what age is considered mandatory for your state. If Kindergarten is mandatory in your state they can't have minimum education requirements attached to it if you meet the age requirement.

There are still quite a few districts/states that still only offer half day kindy programs.

Here they have a Pre-K program (half day)in the public schools and there are no minimum requirement there either. There are not enough spots for all the kids that meet that requirement but they take kids that are high risk first, (have speech delays, low income, born premature, or some other delay) then fill the remaining spots on a lottery system.

I know for my daughter she had a really difficult time with kindy. Not because of the educational demands but it was very hard for her to adjust to the LONG day without momma. (She came out of the womb a total momma's girl) I am in constant contact with her teacher and she says that she receives alot of kids every year that are academically ready for kindy or even 1st grade but are lacking in some other area like socially, or sticking to a set schedule, cleaning up after themselves, having to share, still need help with clothing or tying their shoes, proper bathroom procedures. That is the purpose of kindy, to get all the kids, more on the same level in all areas.

I feel really strongly about this, why are we in such a hurry to make our kids so academically smart and not focussing as much on life skills! I haven't read it in years but think I need to go pick up the book "Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden"
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MrsB View Post
Public school is mandatory for all children in all states. Just depends on what age is considered mandatory for your state. If Kindergarten is mandatory in your state they can't have minimum education requirements attached to it if you meet the age requirement.

There are still quite a few districts/states that still only offer half day kindy programs.

Here they have a Pre-K program (half day)in the public schools and there are no minimum requirement there either. There are not enough spots for all the kids that meet that requirement but they take kids that are high risk first, (have speech delays, low income, born premature, or some other delay) then fill the remaining spots on a lottery system.

I know for my daughter she had a really difficult time with kindy. Not because of the educational demands but it was very hard for her to adjust to the LONG day without momma. (She came out of the womb a total momma's girl) I am in constant contact with her teacher and she says that she receives alot of kids every year that are academically ready for kindy or even 1st grade but are lacking in some other area like socially, or sticking to a set schedule, cleaning up after themselves, having to share, still need help with clothing or tying their shoes, proper bathroom procedures. That is the purpose of kindy, to get all the kids, more on the same level in all areas.
I feel really strongly about this, why are we in such a hurry to make our kids so academically smart and not focussing as much on life skills! I haven't read it in years but think I need to go pick up the book "Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden"


Which is why I do what I do and choose not to teach them in an academic manner. I choose to teach through play. We focus on life skills NOT academic skills.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:58 AM
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Which is why I do what I do and choose not to teach them in an academic manner. I choose to teach through play. We focus on life skills NOT academic skills.
I totally agree with this. This was my orginal point.

I DON'T teach academics. So how if they stay with us until Kindergarten,(and don't attend preschool) are they going to learn to write their name, write their numbers, etc? Some parents will work on that, some won't. I have great parents and most will.

However, I was a SAHM and still sent my kids to preschool. I KNEW I could never teach them all that at home.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:00 PM
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I have felt bad for telling parents, you need to move your child at 4 to a preschool. All these kids have been with me since 6-8 weeks. Put I KNOW a preschool will have them ready. I have all first time parents. I don't know if the parents will get them ready in time.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:02 PM
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So how if they stay with us until Kindergarten,(and don't attend preschool) are they going to learn to write their name, write their numbers, etc?
Most of mine learn it naturally but in all honesty, I don't think they HAVE to know this for Kindergarten. I think they need "to be ready to learn" those things by the time they get to Kindergarten. That is the difference in my opinion.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:09 PM
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Nannyde, I know that as of a couple of years ago the list here in our state was what was the children SHOULD accomplish before entering K. I don't believe any school can deny admission based upon the fact that a child doesn't, for example, know how to count to 20. Basically, it is just a way to attempt to make formal education start earlier, IMO. I tried to find some specifics about it online for my state but could not. I think the lists even vary by school district here.......
Yes
big difference between should and must

I'm interested in the "must" laws, regs, and the consequence if the child does not.

To me, it's not an issue of whether or not a child should or must have these skills before kindy. I'm interested in where the money is to fund it. If the states want kids to have these skill sets then there has to be money to make it happen. Educating kids under the age of five to accomplish these level of skills takes a whole lotta adult and that adult must be paid.

I just don't see how kids learning these skills before age five has anything to do with child care. It's between the parents, school, and child. Unless the parents are hiring it out within their day care fees, it shouldn't affect what providers or centers do in child care. In this poor economy I think it's hard to find parents who can afford to pay for both child care and the education. I think most providers across the country don't feel compensated fairly for just the housing and care of the kids they take care of. To add the HARD HARD work of teaching these kind of skills to such young children is just too expensive for most parents and providers (both center and home) aren't going to do it for free.

I'll betcha dollars to donuts that any kindy teacher with experience would rather have a child who is unselfish, respects authority, has the first five years of excellent nutrition and good deep sleep, and who is non-violent than any single one of those skills on these lists. Too bad the states and school districts don't put those down for requirements instead. Coming to kindy with that kind of early childhood would actually make a difference in their educational outcomes.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Can you post the law or where the state says this is a requirement to enter kindergarten?

Does anyone in any state that has Kindergarten educational standards REQUIREMENTS for entry please post a link to the actual law or regulation.
See, there's the problem. Because of the No Child Left Behind act, they really cannot legislate Kindy requirements. These are just suggestions from specific school districts.
Daycare mentioned that her school district is a PI school, so that means that the teachers have to 'teach to the test.' Program Improvement just means that the students did not test as high as the State would want, so in order to stay funded, ($$$) they need to make sure the students can excel at the State testing. If they have to teach the kiddos the basics of the alphabet and numbers, including writing their names, then they won't have the time to teach them how to discern the right answer from a multiple choice question.
But don't get me on that subject....
FWIW, if you can potty train, you can teach ABC's and 123's.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AmyLeigh View Post
See, there's the problem. Because of the No Child Left Behind act, they really cannot legislate Kindy requirements. These are just suggestions from specific school districts.
Daycare mentioned that her school district is a PI school, so that means that the teachers have to 'teach to the test.' Program Improvement just means that the students did not test as high as the State would want, so in order to stay funded, ($$$) they need to make sure the students can excel at the State testing. If they have to teach the kiddos the basics of the alphabet and numbers, including writing their names, then they won't have the time to teach them how to discern the right answer from a multiple choice question.
But don't get me on that subject....
FWIW, if you can potty train, you can teach ABC's and 123's.
Oh, I know I CAN, I just don't WANT to. Not unless I am paid for my services and receive the same recognition, respect and benefits as the teachers in my school district receive.

I am in the child CARE business, NOT the teaching business. The academic learning that happens within my program is a perk and I will NOT take the credit for the academic things the children in my care learn (or don't learn) while they are being cared for by me.

Ok, I take that back....I will take the credit but only because I supplied the appropriate environmental conditions in which they learned but I don't set out to sit them down and teach them anything academic. The academic things they learn came because they were developmentally ready to learn it so it occurred naturally.

I also heard that the No Child Left Behind act could be on its way out or at least on its way to some major modifications. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1264872.html

Last edited by Blackcat31; 02-14-2012 at 12:29 PM. Reason: added link
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:33 PM
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The academic things they learn came because they were developmentally ready to learn it so it occurred naturally.
That's the way it should be for everyone, regardless of age and ability. But that's just the homeschooler in me talking.
It is amazing how you can integrate early education into everyday life. When they are ready, they will learn.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:33 PM
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FWIW, if you can potty train, you can teach ABC's and 123's.
If you feel it is so simple and that anyone could do it then I would say that it again shouldn't be a concern of the child care provider. Parents potty train their children so they are perfectly adept at abc's and 123's Because it's so simple it can quite easily be done in the course of normal parenting.

See how that works both ways?
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:39 PM
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I agree with you about the kinder thing, but every state has different requirements. In CA you need to be able to write your first middle and last name. Count to 20, count 10 objects, know site and sound all letters of the alphabet both upper and lower case.

Math. Children need to know very basic algebra. For example if there is a pie cut into 4, one piece is missing, they need to know 1/4 of the pie is missing.

There's a lot more. Here I don't think a child could go straight to kinder without proper preparation.

In CA they say that the new kinder is the old first grade.
This is absurd (not you daycare, that your district is saying it's "required")

There are absolutely no "requirements" for kindy entry other than age. They can start with out ANY basic skills.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:41 PM
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I am the same way. We read, play, count, sing, talk about letters and their sounds, but it is all through a form of play. We do art projects, using markers/crayons/pencils, glue, scissors so they are getting those skills, just not specifically taught. I am not a teacher, I do not have a teaching or early childhood education degree. My contract specifically states:

Education & Early Learning
- This is not a pre-school, but, we do learn new things everyday. I believe young children learn best through play, not a structured school-like environment. They will get that soon enough when they enter the school system. However, I do believe it is important for children to have early pre-school knowledge prior to entering the school system. Therefore, we spend our days learning through play, artwork and books. We will learn among other things: our colors, numbers, shapes, our names, our ABC's and some basic handwriting skills, along with some important fine motor skills, which include the proper way to hold a pencil and cut with scissors, through age appropriate activities. Your child will not be pushed to do anything that he/she is not capable of doing, all children will learn these things at their own pace. Early learning should be a fun and enjoyable experience to help ensure a life long love of learning.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:44 PM
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My program is like blackcat....all about play, and learning while you do so. You won't see tracers, alphabet charts, preprinted cutouts, worksheets or any of the like in my program. The children learn as they engage with materials within the environment. I provide experiences for them that encourage natural learning. All of my kids go to kindy well-prepared, but not because I taught them academics. I gave them opportunities to develop skills when they were ready to do so, and all by providing an environment conducive to learning and offering opportunities to explore topics that THEY are INTERESTED in.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
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Here is what Sacramento County says:
Readiness skills:
The following list presents basic skills and concepts that will help your child be ready for school. Children develop at different rates and your child may NOT acquire every skill before entering kindergarten.
•Knows first and last name, age, birthdate, address and phone number
•Knows the letters of the alphabet
•Knows some rhymes, poems and songs
•Identifies objects in picture books
•Prints own name
•Counts to 10
•Knows size, position, and directions. For example, big and little, up and down
•Hops, jumps, skips and marches
•Uses alternate feet going down stairs
•Completes simple puzzles
•Throws and catches a ball
•Draws and colors beyond scribbling
•Cuts with scissors
•Recognizes and names colors and shapes
•Names body parts
•Dresses self
•Follows one and two-step directions
•Stays on task
•Cooperates and interacts in group experiences
•Speaks clearly and uses sentences
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
If you feel it is so simple and that anyone could do it then I would say that it again shouldn't be a concern of the child care provider. Parents potty train their children so they are perfectly adept at abc's and 123's Because it's so simple it can quite easily be done in the course of normal parenting.

See how that works both ways?
I completely agree. I never said that care providers should provide early education for those in their care. I don't do anything formal. We sing songs, read books, count the cars, play Candyland, etc. Those are all educational, but not part of a preschool "curriculum." One dcm told me that her son suddenly started writing his name. She assumed it was because I was working with him. Wrong. He is just ready to write his name.
My point was that it is just not as difficult as some (providers AND parents) think that it is. It's preschool, not rocket science.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:48 PM
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If you get a chance, read this...

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people...uccessful.html

we need to be french parents and have Finnish schools....
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
This is absurd (not you daycare, that your district is saying it's "required")

There are absolutely no "requirements" for kindy entry other than age. They can start with out ANY basic skills.
Sorry I should watch my words more carefully it's not required, it's what they want your child to know prior to starting.

The words say your child know and be able to recognize the following:

Thank you for pointing that out.

We have a lot of ESL students and are currently going to a dual immersion program.
By 2014 all of our schools will be.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:48 PM
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And here, you can find the California Preschool Learning Foundations, which are ridiculously academic based:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cd/re/psfoundations.asp
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:50 PM
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Oh, I know I CAN, I just don't WANT to. Not unless I am paid for my services and receive the same recognition, respect and benefits as the teachers in my school district receive.
Yup

I think millions of providers and centers would be willing to do it if they were paid to do it.

The center a couple of blocks from my house just lowered their rates to 157 a week for infants and 125 for age two and up. I sat down and figured out their absolute best possible profit with their capacity and numbers of children in each age group.

If they had EVERYTHING perfect ... meaning completely full on kids and they all attended every day.. after they paid the staff they are required by law to have.. the MOST amount of money they could be profiting per hour of operation is 30 dollars an hour. That's ONLY with staff salaries and figuring all salaries at minimum wage........ not counting hard costs of operation like non caretaker staff, utilities, supplies, mortgage, etc. JUST staff salaries deducted. They have to use their 360 bucks a day profit (7200 per month) for everything else.

Now you tell me how they could possibly have a dime for education?

I had one of their kids who was there for a full school year between his 38th month and his 47th month of life. He didn't know a single color, number, and he only knew two letters .. the letter q and t because we have a quickie mart here called QT. He spent two semesters in their free state funded preschool and he left there not knowing a single solitary prekindy "skill". Not a thing wrong with him........... he's a smartie.... but he didn't learn anything on the "lists" after two full sememsters of "school". His "school" was funded by the Tom Harkin grant and was free for his parents.

They took the money and did care not school. At 125 a week there was not enough money to educate him and the care money was so low that he got a 1-15 ratio. He had many "teachers" in his two semesters there. They were all minimum wage employees and not a single one that started the school year was there when the school year ended.

Until we GET that they are not one and the same and that if you really want the educational program you HAVE to add money to fairly compensate the workers.. it's never going to work.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:04 PM
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This is absurd (not you daycare, that your district is saying it's "required")

There are absolutely no "requirements" for kindy entry other than age. They can start with out ANY basic skills.
There is a push (especially in CA) for Universal Preschool. If parents think that their children are required to have a certain skill set for Kindy, then they will put their children into (preferably state-run) preschools. Especially if that means they don't have to pay for childcare for another year or two.
A local program went as far as suggesting that those who don't go to preschool are more likely to end up incarcerated. It was ridiculous how they were manipulating the public opinion on that.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:05 PM
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So I tried to copy and past what children learn here in kindergarten but it won't let me. From what I can see we don't have anything that they HAVE to know to enter. Let me say this though, with what I saw on the curriculum that the teachers have to teach it would make it much, much easier for them to go in with some academics. There are 8 sections to the curriculum. Our kindergartens are only 2 1/2 hours and that includes recess, library, music and pe. They have one of those each day of the week. So that cuts down class time to about 1 hour 45 min. Also, for children that have to go out for speech therapy or other special classes are not getting that in the actual classroom time.

I had a friend who's son had to do all day kindergarten for 2 years. There are some learning disablities but he is all over the place for school. Some times in a mainstream classroom, sometimes in special ed, speech therapy, etc. If he was just in special ed all the time I think he would be way ahead but he doesn't qualify for it. He doesn't even qualify for summer school but yet had to do 2 years of all day kindergarten.

If I can take a child and get them more ready for kindergarten that in my eyes is only helping a teacher. With children that might need extra help, it would give the teacher more time to help that child. Also, our classes have been up to 25 kindergarteners in a classroom. There is only 1 aid in the classroom also-
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AmyLeigh View Post
There is a push (especially in CA) for Universal Preschool. If parents think that their children are required to have a certain skill set for Kindy, then they will put their children into (preferably state-run) preschools. Especially if that means they don't have to pay for childcare for another year or two.
A local program went as far as suggesting that those who don't go to preschool are more likely to end up incarcerated. It was ridiculous how they were manipulating the public opinion on that.
yes they had a T-K transitional kindergarten program here in my city. It is a two year program, but now there is no money in the budget for it and looks like it won't even be around this fall. I was planning sending my son there, but now not too sure what I am going to do.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:47 PM
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So I tried to copy and past what children learn here in kindergarten but it won't let me. From what I can see we don't have anything that they HAVE to know to enter. Let me say this though, with what I saw on the curriculum that the teachers have to teach it would make it much, much easier for them to go in with some academics. There are 8 sections to the curriculum. Our kindergartens are only 2 1/2 hours and that includes recess, library, music and pe. They have one of those each day of the week. So that cuts down class time to about 1 hour 45 min. Also, for children that have to go out for speech therapy or other special classes are not getting that in the actual classroom time.

I had a friend who's son had to do all day kindergarten for 2 years. There are some learning disablities but he is all over the place for school. Some times in a mainstream classroom, sometimes in special ed, speech therapy, etc. If he was just in special ed all the time I think he would be way ahead but he doesn't qualify for it. He doesn't even qualify for summer school but yet had to do 2 years of all day kindergarten.

If I can take a child and get them more ready for kindergarten that in my eyes is only helping a teacher. With children that might need extra help, it would give the teacher more time to help that child. Also, our classes have been up to 25 kindergarteners in a classroom. There is only 1 aid in the classroom also-
If your clients are compensating you for it or if you want to do it as a community service.... then who is to say that's the wrong thing to do.

My dog in this fight is only when there is an expectation that educating children as a part of child care without appropriate compensation.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:18 PM
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There is a push (especially in CA) for Universal Preschool. If parents think that their children are required to have a certain skill set for Kindy, then they will put their children into (preferably state-run) preschools. Especially if that means they don't have to pay for childcare for another year or two.
A local program went as far as suggesting that those who don't go to preschool are more likely to end up incarcerated. It was ridiculous how they were manipulating the public opinion on that.
There was a push for universal pre-k.....now with budget cuts, its' not going to happen. Honestly, I think it is a great idea, with the exception being that I think they should start the pre-k at what is now kindergarten entry age (5) and raise the kindy entry age to 6. I think we are pushing children too early to learn their abc's and 123's.

That being said, if you go and check out the RAND studies on the effects of preschool, you will see that it is statistically true that children who do not attend preschool are more likely to be incarcerated....they are also more likely to drop out school, have lower paying jobs, rely on welfare, etc. I don't think it is manipulating public opinion....it's stating facts in an effort to get support for universal pre-k. The RAND studies are based on low income children's outcomes. I need to look it up, but there was a recent study on children who are not low-income with the same outcomes. Let me see if I can find it....it is very recent.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:44 PM
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There was a push for universal pre-k.....now with budget cuts, its' not going to happen. Honestly, I think it is a great idea, with the exception being that I think they should start the pre-k at what is now kindergarten entry age (5) and raise the kindy entry age to 6. I think we are pushing children too early to learn their abc's and 123's.

What would be the difference if they put pre K at 5 and K at 6 or if they leave it alone? It would be the same, wouldn't it? You mean you would prefer the standard to be lowered, right?

That being said, if you go and check out the RAND studies on the effects of preschool, you will see that it is statistically true that children who do not attend preschool are more likely to be incarcerated....they are also more likely to drop out school, have lower paying jobs, rely on welfare, etc. I don't think it is manipulating public opinion....it's stating facts in an effort to get support for universal pre-k. The RAND studies are based on low income children's outcomes. I need to look it up, but there was a recent study on children who are not low-income with the same outcomes. Let me see if I can find it....it is very recent.

You don't want to get me started on this, . If you can find the link, please post it, I would like to see it. I would like to see if the studies also looked at the students' home of origin. You can't tell me that if a child grows up in a home with 2 loving, involved parents who are interested in their child's education and morality, have a large support system whether it be familial or community, regardless of socioeconomic status, will more likely end up incarcerated because he didn't go sing "Wheels on the Bus" at preschool. If so, then clear out a couple of cells for my little criminals! (Dh and I included) There has to be much more to what goes on in a person's upbringing than one year of preschool to have such an impact on their lives as adults. If not, than the following 9 years of elementary school has failed them considerably. And if this is the case, then telling the public if little Johnny doesn't go to preschool he will end up in jail regardless of everything else in his life, the public is being manipulated.
My answers are in bold above. Love this discussion!!!
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:50 PM
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Here is a really good article about universal preschool. http://www.plan4preschool.org/docume...ol-for-all.pdf It talks about how not only low income children benefit from preschool but that middle income kids do too but it DOES not give any evidence of how they know that. The article just says it.

I do think there has to be something said for WHAT preschool teaches. I think all kids would do well in school and normal academic progress would be greater if they were taught the foundational self help skills in preschool versus the academic skills.

Too many kids are entering Kindergarten with only a few months under their belt wearing underwear. Too many kids are heading off to school not having any idea how to behave socially or to listen to direction or knowing how to be patient and wait or take turns. Too many kids are heading off to Kindy while still using cups with lids! etc, etc, etc...

I think universal preschool is a great idea.....but not for academic reasons.

I also agree with Amyleigh....the fact that middle income kids could now benefit from preschool is because more and more parents are no longer vested in their children and expect their child's learning to come from everywhere but them.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 02-14-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:14 PM
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http://www.pacificresearch.org/docLi...gic_Bullet.pdf

10 myths about the benefits of government-run universal preschool

The RAND study is mentioned quite a bit in this bit of research. I found this to be very interesting. It gives us a differing POV on the matter.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:24 PM
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Wow! Myth #5 actually says there is a downside to being exposed to preschool!!

"The study measured three areas of social development: “children’s externalizing behavior (such as aggression, bullying, acting up), interpersonal skills (such as sharing and cooperation), and self control in engaging in classroom tasks.”
According to the study’s authors, “we find that attendance in preschool centers, even for short periods of time each week, hinders the rate at which young children develop social skills and display the motivation to engage in classroom tasks, as reported by kindergarten teachers.”

Interesting POV for sure.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:58 PM
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I did find on our state website a letter from our state superindendent. Then there is a calendar, starting in Aug. the year before kindergarten with ideas on what to work on with your child.

The categories are: Literacy, Mathematics, Language Development, Learning Development, Problem Solving, Personal Information, Small Muscle Development, and Large Muscle Development.

By reading this it does sound somewhat like they really would like you working on certain things with your child before they enter kindergarten. I thought it was kinda neat but at the same time if a parent doesn't find this they would have no way of knowing what to do. I just happened to stumble upon it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:58 PM
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http://www.pacificresearch.org/docLi...gic_Bullet.pdf

10 myths about the benefits of government-run universal preschool

The RAND study is mentioned quite a bit in this bit of research. I found this to be very interesting. It gives us a differing POV on the matter.
This is an amazing article. For the last two years I have been writing on this site every significant point in this article. I wish I had the time and inclination to pull these bullet points and cross reference them to my posts on this site.

Nice job finding this.




Nan likey Amy
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:16 PM
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My answers are in bold above. Love this discussion!!!
OH YES!!!!!!!! (to your answers in bold)
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:59 PM
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Wow! Myth #5 actually says there is a downside to being exposed to preschool!!

"The study measured three areas of social development: “children’s externalizing behavior (such as aggression, bullying, acting up), interpersonal skills (such as sharing and cooperation), and self control in engaging in classroom tasks.”
According to the study’s authors, “we find that attendance in preschool centers, even for short periods of time each week, hinders the rate at which young children develop social skills and display the motivation to engage in classroom tasks, as reported by kindergarten teachers.”

Interesting POV for sure.
We need to research kindergarten teachers. We need to talk to the ones who have at least five years or more. We need to ask them what they need ...... what they are spending their time doing..... what they see is changing..... how long does it take to get to teaching...... what kind of pressures are they facing from parents and administrators that they feel helpless to meet.

I would bet you that experienced teachers will tell you that the biggest hindrence to them doing their job is the behavior of the parents, the behavior of the kids, how tired the kids are, how poorly they eat, how adult dependent they are for their moment to moment happiness, how they are expected to teach kids to read words, write letters, count, identify numbers, etc. but they can't get to it because they are spending the majority of their time trying to just get the kids to mind them.

Our crisis now isn't early education, it's early behavior, early health, early sleep, early exercise, and early respect.

One thing I think we need to come right out and say is that when parents are coming to the preschool table ....... most parents......not all........but most by far are REALLY coming wanting this: My child can read words as big as possible as young as possible. My child can identify and WRITE both upper and lower case letters. My child can count to 20-100 and can identify those numbers and write those numbers. My child should learn colors and shapes by two. My child can do puzzles by two/three.... by five should be able to do large puzzles. Painting, coloring, craft and art is a FUN thing I want my kid to do at school. I want them to have fun and I want someone else to host that.. (do prep, supervise, and clean up) specially the painting and multi layered craft.

So the parent is coming saying what they really want is these specific skills. These skills require a LOT of adult for kids under five AND they are proveable. The kid can either write the letters or they can't. They can read the words or they count. They can identify 38 or they can't. They aren't skills that are in the eye of the beholder.

Ask the parent if they think preschool is about learning to stand in line, wait your turn, mind the adult, button your own jacket, sit at the desk, independently potty, etc. or if they think it's PROVEABLE academic skills. I guarantee 99 of 100 would say they would rather their kid be able to read five letter words at four or five year olds then be able to follow directions and mind an adult. They would rather their kid be able to write all the lower case letters than eat a healthy meal and have a solid deep sleep nap mid day. Sure the would like both but what REALLY matters is the younger the proveable skills the better. They like all the "social, behavior, and self help" confirmations of progress but it aint what pays the "my child is gifted" rent.

So the parents and society want the proveable stuff and as young as possible. The highly funded ece programs like head start so "oh no... it's not academics.. it's a social experience" They know they can't produce the provable stuff no matter how much money they throw at it. We can extend the poor kid research outcomes to the middle and upper middle class but it's not going to get the proveable stuff accomplished at an early age.

The stuff that would REALLY make a difference to get our kids to be good at age appropriate learning are stuff that doesn't appeal to most parents because the root of success in those areas HAVE to come from home or they don't show up at school. Good behavior, good eating, good exercise, good sleep, good manners, others thinking............ can't be taught single handedly at some other place and none of those will make your friends and family agree that your kid is gifted.

We need to redifine what is really important for birth to five and the abc's and 123's need to put on the back burner. We need to get back to the notion that little kids need to eat healthy meals, need to be outside and get exercise, they need to do what the adults tell them to do, they need to be respectful, they need to have SELF control and be the masters of their own self esteem that is wrought from hard work and actual good behavior, they need SLEEP that is decided upon by the adults not themselves, and they need to make their own happiness through their own play. Preschool is what happens BEFORE they go to school. These are the things that need to be done with kids before they go to school.
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  #48  
Old 02-15-2012, 05:14 AM
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Public school is mandatory for all children in all states.
Sorry, but I have to disagree here. There are still plenty of private schools and homeschooling that are legal in pretty much every state. There ARE options....

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I feel really strongly about this, why are we in such a hurry to make our kids so academically smart and not focussing as much on life skills! I haven't read it in years but think I need to go pick up the book "Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden"
I sooooo agree!!!!
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:36 AM
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[quote=nannyde;197251]We need to research kindergarten teachers. We need to talk to the ones who have at least five years or more. We need to ask them what they need ...... what they are spending their time doing..... what they see is changing..... how long does it take to get to teaching...... what kind of pressures are they facing from parents and administrators that they feel helpless to meet.

I would bet you that experienced teachers will tell you that the biggest hindrence to them doing their job is the behavior of the parents, the behavior of the kids, how tired the kids are, how poorly they eat, how adult dependent they are for their moment to moment happiness, how they are expected to teach kids to read words, write letters, count, identify numbers, etc. but they can't get to it because they are spending the majority of their time trying to just get the kids to mind them.
Our crisis now isn't early education, it's early behavior, early health, early sleep, early exercise, and early respect.

Gosh....doesn't that sound familiar?????? It is what we, as care providers, see every stinkin day!!!!
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  #50  
Old 02-15-2012, 05:46 AM
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If you get a chance, read this...

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people...uccessful.html

we need to be french parents and have Finnish schools....
I don't know if anyone read this, maybe it looked like I was being sarcastic, I didn't mean that. This is really a good article. Not that it helps, because it's not where the pendulum swings in the U.S. right now.

In WI, they are pushing "Wisconsin Early Learning Standards". I THINK it's an attempt to quantify early learning. I guess the mentality is that if you quantify something, you can measure it's progress, and there's some sort of guarantee that you'll "get your money's worth" when you put money into programs. ????? I wouldn't be suprised if down the line, they try to add some sort of standardized testing for preschoolers, as well...
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  #51  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:05 AM
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I don't know if anyone read this, maybe it looked like I was being sarcastic, I didn't mean that. This is really a good article. Not that it helps, because it's not where the pendulum swings in the U.S. right now.
Children spend far more time playing outside, even in the depths of winter. Homework is minimal. Compulsory schooling does not begin until age 7. “We have no hurry,” said Louhivuori. “Children learn better when they are ready. Why stress them out?”

It’s almost unheard of for a child to show up hungry or homeless. Finland provides three years of maternity leave and subsidized day care to parents, and preschool for all 5-year-olds, where the emphasis is on play and socializing.


In that article, the above is the single biggest contributor to their success in my opinion. Parents are the primary teachers for their children the first 3 years. Until we address that issue, the rest is pointless.
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  #52  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
I would bet you that experienced teachers will tell you that the biggest hindrence to them doing their job is the behavior of the parents, the behavior of the kids, how tired the kids are, how poorly they eat, how adult dependent they are for their moment to moment happiness, how they are expected to teach kids to read words, write letters, count, identify numbers, etc. but they can't get to it because they are spending the majority of their time trying to just get the kids to mind them.

Our crisis now isn't early education, it's early behavior, early health, early sleep, early exercise, and early respect.

We need to redifine what is really important for birth to five and the abc's and 123's need to put on the back burner. We need to get back to the notion that little kids need to eat healthy meals, need to be outside and get exercise, they need to do what the adults tell them to do, they need to be respectful, they need to have SELF control and be the masters of their own self esteem that is wrought from hard work and actual good behavior, they need SLEEP that is decided upon by the adults not themselves, and they need to make their own happiness through their own play. Preschool is what happens BEFORE they go to school. These are the things that need to be done with kids before they go to school.

BINGO!!!!!
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  #53  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:17 AM
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Children spend far more time playing outside, even in the depths of winter. Homework is minimal. Compulsory schooling does not begin until age 7. “We have no hurry,” said Louhivuori. “Children learn better when they are ready. Why stress them out?”

It’s almost unheard of for a child to show up hungry or homeless. Finland provides three years of maternity leave and subsidized day care to parents, and preschool for all 5-year-olds, where the emphasis is on play and socializing.


In that article, the above is the single biggest contributor to their success in my opinion. Parents are the primary teachers for their children the first 3 years. Until we address that issue, the rest is pointless.

Of course, we'd all be out of jobs...
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  #54  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Countrygal View Post
Sorry, but I have to disagree here. There are still plenty of private schools and homeschooling that are legal in pretty much every state. There ARE options....

You are correct! I meant to say "school" or an education is mandatory for all children in all states. Thank you for catching that.



I sooooo agree!!!!
Seems like alot of us are on the same page and have alot of the same views. Why dont they use us in one of their studies!
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  #55  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:45 AM
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Of course, we'd all be out of jobs...
Yeah I'd take it though!

Loving this discussion btw. I don't have much to add because most of it has been said already.
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  #56  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:57 AM
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in ontario our school system is different. At the age of 3/4 they start school (or you guys call it preschool) there are NO tests, you don't have to be ready, all you have to do is dump your kid off at the door and its free. (or like dh calls it "free daycare) they do learn some things but they try to get kids to do more socialization. By kindy you are drilled with stuff. You better know all your alphabets, how to write upper and lower case, use scissors, wash your hands, math, basic reading, how to color in the lines, oh and forget about socializing that goes out the window.

when ds was in kindy, I got comments from his teacher like, "n should play in the house center, n should do work books" well ds comes from a family of 3 sisters, trust me he doesn't lack in playing house, babies, hamsters, post office, father, brother, cashier... and work books we always did at home and the ones at school were boring because he already knew the stuff.

there was no more art, playing was schedualled and imagination was gone. I'm starting to find that now (he's in grade 4) he lacks some of the stuff that I think at the age of 5 he should have been doing. Instead, I find that excerise is so important than having free play. I think by shoving so many things down their throats at a young age is making them hate school more. I would love for them to do a study at the end of grade12 to show how they benifited from having early education forced upon them. How many are going to higher education, getting jobs.

Also, we have a rule that children are not allowed to fail, they can struggle all they want in grade school but you can't fail (this was not the rule many years ago when I went to school) and you need to praise all the time. There are no consequences for not doing homework or handing in assignments because no one cares. I can go on and on.
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  #57  
Old 02-15-2012, 07:47 AM
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Oh, I forgot to mention, but someone said excercise....

In the great campaign against obesity in America,our state is now trying to REQUIRE licensed daycare providers to not only "promote" physical activity, but to actually "teach" physical activity. They want us to provide and hour of teacher led physical activity a day. That means, we get the whole group togehter and do movement things.

going for a walk doesnt count
playing on the playground doesnt count

yeah, our kids are fat because we dcp's don't give them enough of the "right" kind of excercise

its not because they get soda in their bottles, candy every day, and crap for "breakfast" at home (or in the car)....
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  #58  
Old 02-15-2012, 09:26 AM
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Seems like alot of us are on the same page and have alot of the same views. Why dont they use us in one of their studies!
That's because we are in the trenches with the children. Politicians and researchers aren't. We see the children everyday and know their stories, know their personalities, all the little nuances that are missed on a questionnaire.
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  #59  
Old 02-15-2012, 09:34 AM
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The more I read, the sadder I get. Kids are not allowed to be kids any more. They have to grow up too fast. What is this world coming to?! When I was a kid, I learned my abc's and how to tie my shoes in Kindergarten. Am I a rocket scientist?! No. Did I ever WANT to be one?! NO. The pressures put on kids now is just plain sad! No wonder kids drink and do drugs and commit suicide. Just way too much pressure is put on kids. My kids learn thru play. When parents start pushing with "you need to teach them this and that" I say, sounds to me like you are looking for little Johnny to be in school. I am not a teacher. We learn in play here. I use every opportunity as a learning experience.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:35 AM
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It’s almost unheard of for a child to show up hungry or homeless. Finland provides three years of maternity leave and subsidized day care to parents, and preschool for all 5-year-olds, where the emphasis is on play and socializing.


In that article, the above is the single biggest contributor to their success in my opinion. Parents are the primary teachers for their children the first 3 years. Until we address that issue, the rest is pointless.
Yes!!! We are told on one hand that parents are a child's first and best teacher, then "they" turn around and tell us that our child won't succeed unless we drop them off at daycare at 6 weeks of age (making bf'ing difficult), push them into the state run preschools at 3-4 years of age, and keep them institutionalized (ooops, I mean schooled) until they are 18 or older! Where is the logic in that?

Obviously, I feel very strongly about this. I completely turned my life upside down in order to stay home with my children and homeschool. That is what is best for my family. My main problem is the fact that people are being told what to do with their children rather than being educated as to the choices that are available. You want to put little Johnny in preschool? Fine, no problem. Do it because you believe he will enjoy playing with some friends there. Don't do it because you are being indoctrinated that you HAVE to do it.
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  #61  
Old 02-15-2012, 04:42 PM
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I am very intrigued by this discussion and wish I had time right now to share my thoughts. However at this moment they would be lacking alot because I am super busy.

I will be back tomorrow to share my thoughts and feelings.....many of which are the same as most of yours.
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