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Old 07-01-2011, 01:00 PM
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Default Pros/Cons Video Cameras at Daycare In Home And Preschool

So my cousin called me last night telling me that she is looking for daycare or preschool for her little boy, they live in southern california. She went to a place that has video camers installed throughout most of the facility. The pricing was really high compared to those that don't have cameras.

She asked me how I felt about them and if they really served better than those daycare/centers without them. I have no experience with them and don't really know anything about them.

The only thing that I told her is that I think that if someone were going to do something wrong they sure would not do it where they know there was a camera and there was no audio, so it would only show the teachers/providers on good behavior. Again I told her i have no experience with them or really know the pros and cons of them....

Can you help me with this? What do you guys think about them and what do you feel are the pros and cons?
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:07 PM
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You will find this article interesting: http://www.daycare.com/story/daycare_video_cameras.html

We also have many threads on the subject: http://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=cctv
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:14 PM
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thanks so much michael!!
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Old 07-03-2011, 04:16 PM
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http://www.ketknbc.com/news/child-ca...dragging-child


http://www.ketknbc.com/news/watch-fu...body-slams-boy

http://www.cbs19.tv/story/14932015/e...tions-of-abuse
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:36 AM
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Sadly, Nan. That is not an isolated case. Just one where the other employee had seen it enough times to know when she could catch it on cell phone video. Obviously she had already learned that the original classroom video would not be available if she complained.

Employees learn the placements/blindspots of those cameras and hide outside of the range. I was taught mine by the director, herself, under the guise of "this is where you can you can handle wedgie and bra issues". They are only as good as the field of vision they offer. Without sound and a trained eye, parents are way behind the 8 ball.

The only way for parents to have the skill set required to recognize some of the typical signs is for each parent to have actually spent a little time working in that environment.

It also does not surprise me one bit they fired the whistleblower...and not the abuser.

It is an attempt to get rid of the negative press and "handle it from within".

I have seen it before, personally in my early 20's, with a provider shoving a metal spoon into an infants mouth so hard it tore his little gums until they bled (he did not like apricots).

I made a stink and almost lost my job over it, I did lose 3 days. I am confident I would have had I not grabbed another (lead) teacher from the next room to witness it before calling the director in. My Mom taught me to do that BEFORE I went to work there from her experiences in childcare.

There were other, less dramatic, issues as well like teachers eating the majority of the kids lunch (nuggets, pizza, etc.), pencil whipping daily sheets, faking art projects, smoking in the back corner of the playground/restrooms or stealing fruit cups/pudding cups/snack cakes from kids personal snack bags for themselves.

After the "investigation" of the bleeding gums incident they moved her to the 3 year old room since "infants just were not her thing".

I know others here have stories, too.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
Sadly, Nan. That is not an isolated case. Just one where the other employee had seen it enough times to know when she could catch it on cell phone video. Obviously she had already learned that the original classroom video would not be available if she complained.

Employees learn the placements/blindspots of those cameras and hide outside of the range. They are only as good as the field of vision they offer. Without sound and a trained eye, parents are way behind the 8 ball.

The only way for parents to have the skill set required to recognize some of the typical signs is for each parent to have actually spent a little time working in that environment.

It also does not surprise me one bit they fired the whistleblower...and not the abuser.

It is an attempt to get rid of the negative press and "handle it from within".

I have seen it before, personally in my early 20's, with a provider shoving a metal spoon into an infants mouth so hard it tore his little gums until they bled (he did not like apricots).

I made a stink and almost lost my job over it, I did lose 3 days. I am confident I would have had I not grabbed another (lead) teacher from the next room to witness it before calling the director in. My Mom taught me to do that BEFORE I went to work there from her experiences in childcare.

There were other, less dramatic, issues as well like teachers eating the majority of the kids lunch (nuggets, pizza, etc.), pencil whipping daily sheets, faking art projects, smoking in the back corner of the playground/restrooms or stealing fruit cups/pudding cups/snack cakes from kids personal snack bags for themselves.

After the "investigation" of the bleeding gums incident they moved her to the 3 year old room since "infants just were not her thing".

I know others here have stories, too.
Good grief, it's enough to make me snuggle all my kids close (dcks and my own two children) and be very grateful that I'm here for them...nuts as they drive me sometimes...
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverSabre25 View Post
Good grief, it's enough to make me snuggle all my kids close (dcks and my own two children) and be very grateful that I'm here for them...nuts as they drive me sometimes...
Exactly...that is why I love small group/home daycare or centers where the OWNERS are on site everyday.

It just changes the dynamic, IMHO.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
Sadly, Nan. That is not an isolated case. Just one where the other employee had seen it enough times to know when she could catch it on cell phone video. Obviously she had already learned that the original classroom video would not be available if she complained.

Employees learn the placements/blindspots of those cameras and hide outside of the range. I was taught mine by the director, herself, under the guise of "this is where you can you can handle wedgie and bra issues". They are only as good as the field of vision they offer. Without sound and a trained eye, parents are way behind the 8 ball.

The only way for parents to have the skill set required to recognize some of the typical signs is for each parent to have actually spent a little time working in that environment.

It also does not surprise me one bit they fired the whistleblower...and not the abuser.

It is an attempt to get rid of the negative press and "handle it from within".

I have seen it before, personally in my early 20's, with a provider shoving a metal spoon into an infants mouth so hard it tore his little gums until they bled (he did not like apricots).

I made a stink and almost lost my job over it, I did lose 3 days. I am confident I would have had I not grabbed another (lead) teacher from the next room to witness it before calling the director in. My Mom taught me to do that BEFORE I went to work there from her experiences in childcare.

There were other, less dramatic, issues as well like teachers eating the majority of the kids lunch (nuggets, pizza, etc.), pencil whipping daily sheets, faking art projects, smoking in the back corner of the playground/restrooms or stealing fruit cups/pudding cups/snack cakes from kids personal snack bags for themselves.

After the "investigation" of the bleeding gums incident they moved her to the 3 year old room since "infants just were not her thing".

I know others here have stories, too.
This is what I see:

This is an employee video taping the computer screen of something that happened many days or weeks before. She did NOT tape this as it was happening. She got the other (you can hear them in the background talking) employees to do watch out for her as she rewound the tape on the centers camera system computer. She rewound up to that point and then used her own cell phone to tape the tape.

The kid had hit, slapped, and kicked the employee BEFORE the tape started. He was being "timed out" in the adjacent room raising hell and she brought him to sit on the floor near her. He was kicking her from the floor when she got up again and put him on the table.

She put him on the table because she is not physically capable of doing the up and down off of the floor. She brought him UP to the table instead of going down to his level when he was sitting on the floor in that small space between the craft table and the steel table. My guess from watching center cameras for the last six months is that this was due to the workers size. Workers that are that heavy LIFT the kids instead of getting down on the floor. It's way easier on them physically. I see this kind of body movement with the kids hundreds of times a day watching center cameras. It's easier to bend over than it is to squat down. It's easier to lift up then it is to get down.


The tape has TWO cut ins. One at the point where she brought him to sit by her and one at the point where she had him off camera and brought him back into the room. There is tape missing on those sections.

The kid hit her repeatedly when he was up on the table with his left hand.

There was a staff member playing with hands in pockets just a few feet away from her from the point the kid was on the floor sitting next to her till she took him thru the hallway off camera.

The staff member that taped the tape did not bring the tape out until AFTER she was fired. She knew about this incident and did not bring it to the parents attention until after she had been fired for something else.

I think the table the staff member put the kid on is a steel table. The tape is sped up from the point where she picked him up from the floor till the point where his body was on the table. He was SITTING up on that table.. not laying down.

When she is bringing him thru the hallway she is moving forward and he is pulling backwards. If you see the position of her hands... she has his hand in her hand at her hip... fixed.

She threatens him that she is going to call the cops for his hitting her and kicking her. He did this BEFORE the tape started and again when on the table.

My guess is that the center didn't authorize this tapeing of the tape. The stations that played it most likely played a tape that was illegally obtained. The provider and all of her girlfriends on the watch out when she taped the tape have all known about this for weeks. She is most likely in some trouble for not doing her duty as a mandatory reporter. She gave the mom a copy of the tape and the mom turned it into the tv stations.

I don't think the girl will be found guilty of any kind of abuse. I could be wrong but I think when the watch the tape in real time and see that the noise of her "slamming" the kid on the table was just the kids weight onto the steel table. I think they will see that she was just walking forward and the kid was moving away from her and swinging his body when she moved him down the hall. This manuever can be seen by thousands of parents across the US at a Walmart near you. With the amount of hitting he did to her when she had him on the table she didn't have the ability to do a full body hold on him to move him to another area.

There were NO hitting sounds off camera. The Mom said she hit him off camera but they don't have that on the tape.

I think she had another adult there to help who stood by and did nothing (hands in pockets_) while this kid was raising hell in the other room and at her feet. That staff could have removed the poor kids who had to watch the whole thing BUT you can tell with the behavior of these kids that this is a VERY regular behavior. There is NO fear or avoidance moves on their part when it is going down. They are used to it.

I think she MAY have some issues with showing a large portion of her butt to the kids during this. She's exposing the kids to her butt many times in the video. She doesn't have proper covering over herself at all so this may be a problem for her when she's investigated.

My guess is is that this is a violent child who has hit many many times before and a staff member who doesn't have the experience, the physical ability, or the training to take him to the ground to get it stopped. My guess is she has been hit by him so many times before that this reaction is a pent up ... built up.. reaction from feeling like she can't do a thing to keep her job and keep him from lashing out.

When she brought up the cops being called it told you she was completely out of resources.

This looks like a very small home/center. I think it's sad that there weren't others around to isolate him and call the parent to come get him.

We are going to see a LOT more of this as video cameras make their way into centers.

Day care workers need TRAINING on how to manage kids who are physically lashing out. That training needs to be SPECIFIC about it and NOT include a time out or redirection. They need to be trained WHEN to put the kid down to the ground and when to walk them. If they are resisting backwards as you are walking forwards they need to STOP and put them down to the floor... call parent. The training also needs to be specific with workers of this size. What they do to have the least effort/hardness out often looks like too rough on the kids.

That's my take on it... some guess.. some I can see.

Last edited by nannyde; 07-05-2011 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:34 AM
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I could not get the video to play... I went from the written words of the articles.. I have a feeling your take on this particular case is the corect one.

I will update my "player" and come back.

Either way, it is a flawed system if trusted with blind faith, IMHO.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
I could not get the video to play... I went from the written words of the articles.. I have a feeling your take on this particular case is the corect one.

I will update my "player" and come back.

Either way, it is a flawed system if trusted with blind faith, IMHO.
watch the raw one
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:42 AM
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Catherder -- what's "pencil whipping daily sheets"? I've never heard that term before and now I'm dying to know! I'm guessing it means writing down false information?
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:16 AM
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There's always 3 sides to every story - your's, mine, and the actual facts.

As humans, we tend to omit a fact here or there that puts us in a bad light.

It looks like a lot of facts are missing from the edited edition.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:16 AM
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Catherder -- what's "pencil whipping daily sheets"? I've never heard that term before and now I'm dying to know! I'm guessing it means writing down false information?
Yes, you got it.

They will start the day by filling out what each parent expects to see on their daily forms. It is easier in the early mornings (or during naptime) since there are less kids needs or cleaning to attend to.

Occasionally a parent will show up unexpectedly well before the next previously documented diaper change...suddenly they realize they "forgot to do a daily sheet since it had been such a hectic morning and planned to catch up this afternoon".... Sound at all familiar?

The really committed ones even keep a couple different colored pens on their clip boards.

It was explained to me during training that it was just easier to "whip the sheets" early during quiet time and go on with your day than to get too busy and write something down incorrectly/on the wrong sheet/omit it completely and have to argue with parents about it at pick up, too.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:37 AM
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Catherder -- what's "pencil whipping daily sheets"? I've never heard that term before and now I'm dying to know! I'm guessing it means writing down false information?
huge problem in centers.

When given the option to write words or to change a diaper many will choose the writing words. They write them all at one time. We call it "bulk charting". I can tell if they are doing it by the time they spend at the clipboards. One that charts it right after a change does it in a few seconds. One bulk charting takes a few minutes and they have different body movements from the trunk up.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:52 AM
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I fully agree this provider was setup for failure both by her employer and her co-workers.

I also feel she was not physicaly fit for the job at hand. This is a brutally physical job. We MUST be able to get down to their level at any given time to be able to maintain order.

It is also very apparent the other kids are very accustomed to the kid and adults acting that way as they seem perfectly at home in a room that sounds that way.

It is a sad situation all around.

I think the last time the playroom got the loud here was on maraca, cymbal and whistle "music day".....
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:48 AM
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http://www.hope4kidz.org/news/texas/TX_06172011.html
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:28 AM
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I haven't read all the responses, but wanted to say that I think cameras are a very good idea. I worked in a center that was associated with the university, so there was a two-way mirror that looked into my classroom. There were frequently students, professors and parents back there and I always vowed that if I needed to put my child in childcare, I would go to a place like that. I've also worked in non-videoed centers and the behavior of some teachers shocked me.

But, what I'd really like to say is that it is so unfortunate that we even have to be having this discussion and I would sooooo much prefer that centers had the money to pay qualified teachers a real, living wage instead of hiring anyone with a warm body. Not that these incidents couldn't happen when all the teachers are qualified (educated, experienced), but man, to think that we have to watch our children while they are being watched is sad and scary.
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