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  #1  
Old 01-26-2021, 02:34 PM
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Default Minimum Wage Increase

Just heard on the news that President biden is planning to increase the minimum wage to $15 an hour. What's your opinion on it? How are people supposed to afford anything such as groceries????
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Old 01-26-2021, 03:59 PM
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I think that should be a state by state decision. After all, $15 in West Virginia is a lot different than $15 in California. Median income for a household in CA is 75,235 USD while in WV it is 46,711 USD.

Cost of living
L.A. House - $816,438 Rent - $2,800
West Virginia House - $96,400

Obviously, if you are running a small business, paying more may result in hiring less. In California we have a large influx of immigrants both legal and illegal. Many small businesses and farms can not pay the $15 an hour for immigrant labor. Expect prices and inflation to rise on consumer goods.
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Old 01-26-2021, 06:05 PM
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Expect prices and inflation to rise on consumer goods.
This is EXACTLY what my husband said!
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Old 01-26-2021, 06:27 PM
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Itís not as simple as it sounds.

IMHO, it will cause more harm than good.

In my state, minimum wage just increased to a little over $12/hr. A $3/hr. raise is a lot for an employer to cover. Not to mention, the folks that are already making that much and have significant time and responsibilities with an employer are going to have to get a raise commensurate to the entry-level employees, otherwise thereís no reason for them to stay on and carry the extra responsibilities. It can be too much for an employer to cover and will result in layoffs and job cuts. Itís less costly to hire part-time employees that donít get benefits or overtime pay.

The cost of everything else will increase as employers will need to charge more for their products and services to cover their increase in expenses.

Some self-employed, small business owners donít even make minimum wage themselves, especially when the hours they dedicate to their business is considered. I certainly wonít be paying an employee 3x what I make when they donít carry anywhere near the risk and responsibility I do.

I can already feel my blood boiling when my clients, that get a raise because of the minimum wage increase, start complaining about my rate increases to cover the increase in my expenses, while I continue to make a four figure profit.

The politicians that vote for this increase should be giving up a percentage of their six figure salaries to go to the employers that canít afford it.

Havenít we seen enough small businesses close this past year?
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Old 01-26-2021, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunshine69 View Post
It’s not as simple as it sounds.

IMHO, it will cause more harm than good.

I can already feel my blood boiling when my clients, that get a raise because of the minimum wage increase, start complaining about my rate increases to cover the increase in my expenses, while I continue to make a four figure profit.

The politicians that vote for this increase should be giving up a percentage of their six figure salaries to go to the employers that can’t afford it.

Haven’t we seen enough small businesses close this past year?
Exactly right. I had a brick and mortar where I employed seven in Palm Desert, CA. I didn't pay myself for 2 years trying to get it off the ground. I was in debt $200k because of how difficult it was paying for workers comp, building and equipment leases, city and state taxes. I figured close up the building but have my employees work from home online. They state said I couldn't use them as private contractors. So instead of keeping them employed, I had to lay everyone off. I guess that is where workers comp comes in play.

So no more brick and mortar. Everything is now online with commissioned payouts with people in other states. These politicians have no idea what its like to run a business. We absorb all debt while they are salaried by tax payers with a lifetime pension and health insurance.
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Old 01-27-2021, 02:38 AM
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While I agree with many points you all have made, I'm still sitting on the fence. What happens to the families who are both in minimum wage jobs and can't even support their families? Can we make further education more accessible and affordable for them? And what about the people who are unemployable for various reasons so have to resort to the minimum wage jobs and still have to rely on financial assistance for most of their needs?

Those minimum wage rates might be fine for high school kids but what about parents who cannot get traction in this economy for whatever reason?

This is in no way meant to disagree with any of what's been said but only to further discussion. I completely agree that when minimum wage increases, so does everything else. It only makes sense. It feels like an endless cycle that never really helps anyone.
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Old 01-27-2021, 04:18 AM
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I don't understand why so many seem to forget that having more than one job is the norm for many. I don't know anyone who does not, myself included. Having only one job was a luxury. If you can't live within your means, you get another job to cover the gaps or you do without things. Pretty simple concept.

If you can't afford to live in a city, then move to where you can. Again, pretty simple concept.

No one gets to start at middle class. No one whose parents did not hand that to them ever has. That has not changed. Trade schools exist for a reason. First you get a minimum wage job, age 15-16 to learn good work habits. Then, you learn a trade 16-19, work, then use that income to pay for higher education if higher wages are what you want. You then have your 20's to late 60's to earn those higher wages. You don't start there.

If you choose to have marriage and kids before you learn a trade or get an education, that is your choice. Those are the people, like me, who work more than one job until their kids are old enough for them to go back to school. It is a short period of time, it does not preclude you from learning a trade, going to college or working for the rest of your life.

It is all a choice. Marriage and kids are not mandatory and someone else's choices are not my responsibility.

Raise the minimum wage and everything else goes up right with it. Don't you remember 2009? Go ahead, I will just raise my rates again, too.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I don't understand why so many seem to forget that having more than one job is the norm for many. I don't know anyone who does not, myself included. Having only one job was a luxury. If you can't live within your means, you get another job to cover the gaps or you do without things. Pretty simple concept.

If you can't afford to live in a city, then move to where you can. Again, pretty simple concept.

No one gets to start at middle class. No one whose parents did not hand that to them ever has. That has not changed. Trade schools exist for a reason. First you get a minimum wage job, age 15-16 to learn good work habits. Then, you learn a trade 16-19, work, then use that income to pay for higher education if higher wages are what you want. You then have your 20's to late 60's to earn those higher wages. You don't start there.

If you choose to have marriage and kids before you learn a trade or get an education, that is your choice. Those are the people, like me, who work more than one job until their kids are old enough for them to go back to school. It is a short period of time, it does not preclude you from learning a trade, going to college or working for the rest of your life.

It is all a choice. Marriage and kids are not mandatory and someone else's choices are not my responsibility.

Raise the minimum wage and everything else goes up right with it. Don't you remember 2009? Go ahead, I will just raise my rates again, too.
yep; choices and consequences.....with living within your means being the biggest factor.....I see that with my brother and I.....six-figure salary for him; me in the 'peon' class He says all the time...he bets I have more money 'saved' than him....we all know what we have and how far we can go with it!
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
yep; choices and consequences.....with living within your means being the biggest factor.....I see that with my brother and I.....six-figure salary for him; me in the 'peon' class He says all the time...he bets I have more money 'saved' than him....we all know what we have and how far we can go with it!
Exactly. I am happy with my lower income level. I gave up "stuff" for time and I don't regret it one bit. I am happy in my peaceful small world. I don't think any amount of money could buy the freedom and peace of being 100% in control of who and how I spend my days on this earth.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:43 AM
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Exactly. I am happy with my lower income level. I gave up "stuff" for time and I don't regret it one bit. I am happy in my peaceful small world. I don't think any amount of money could buy the freedom and peace of being 100% in control of who and how I spend my days on this earth.
Amen!!!!!
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2021, 05:50 AM
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A relative of mine got $1/hour increase at the start of the pandemic for hazardous duty pay because he was an essential worker.

Much to his surprise, his first paycheck with the increase was less than he made the week before. The increase put him into a higher tax bracket so his raise cost him.

Seems like a sneaky way for the government to increase their tax base without actually having to get a tax increase approved.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:56 AM
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The increase put him into a higher tax bracket so his raise cost him.

Seems like a sneaky way for the government to increase their tax base without actually having to get a tax increase approved.
That is exactly why I left the food program, back in the day. That is what happened to us.
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I don't understand why so many seem to forget that having more than one job is the norm for many. I don't know anyone who does not, myself included. Having only one job was a luxury. If you can't live within your means, you get another job to cover the gaps or you do without things. Pretty simple concept.

If you can't afford to live in a city, then move to where you can. Again, pretty simple concept.

No one gets to start at middle class. No one whose parents did not hand that to them ever has. That has not changed. Trade schools exist for a reason. First you get a minimum wage job, age 15-16 to learn good work habits. Then, you learn a trade 16-19, work, then use that income to pay for higher education if higher wages are what you want. You then have your 20's to late 60's to earn those higher wages. You don't start there.

If you choose to have marriage and kids before you learn a trade or get an education, that is your choice. Those are the people, like me, who work more than one job until their kids are old enough for them to go back to school. It is a short period of time, it does not preclude you from learning a trade, going to college or working for the rest of your life.

It is all a choice. Marriage and kids are not mandatory and someone else's choices are not my responsibility.

Raise the minimum wage and everything else goes up right with it. Don't you remember 2009? Go ahead, I will just raise my rates again, too.
Amen to this.
Prior to having my own kids I worked multiple jobs. Worked as a lead teacher at one center M - F 6:30am - 2:30pm.
Worked at a second center as a closer from M - F 3:00pm - 6:00pm.
Babysat on the weekends.
AND went to school full time online. I was not married, lived on my own and did not have kids. Why not?
I was lucky enough that the director of the first center worked with me; I chose not to take a lunch break so I could leave earlier. Spent one week doing all my curriculum and prep for an entire month during nap time. The other three weeks I would do schoolwork during naptime after the routine cleaning was finished. I completed the remaining homework on the weekend and evenings.

Right now I am open 6:30am - 5:00pm, have two kids of my own and am exploring returning to school online. It will be a stretch timewise, but I feel "called" to return to school.

IMO, if this $15 passes, we are in for a ton of economic trouble. Right now a value meal at McDonald's is $9+ a head of lettuce at the grocery store is $2+ The rent for a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house is almost $2k a month and we are right back to where we were before the bubble burst in regard to having too many people needing housing, and not enough available houses. I am just waiting for them to reinstate the lottery
It is insane. I am not sure why no one looks at history and realizes that a minimum wage increases don't actually do anything, except raise the price of everything else, and ends up in job cuts. It is all a wash in the end.
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:00 AM
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This thread makes me 'really' stand back and think about life, in general. My cousin that just passed in a car accident July 2020 at age 36 had a wife and five children (ages 8 months to age 9).....he was the bread winner but he was also the decision maker....she is lost...he was poor with finances but had finally gotten a stable job and seemed to be climbing the ladder quickly. He chose not to immunize the kids so now she can't send the kids to public school. So her life is forever changed and the consequences thereof. She has a house that is half-finished. She had just as much choice as he did to have 5 children and they are/were wonderful caring parents...but I see how our, including mine, decisions each moment really can have future consequences. Sure, she is getting a large settlement from the wreck as it was a large company owned vehicle that hit him killing him instantly....but she would give all that money back to have him back. She is a STRONG christian individual and has an even stronger support system but looking back I'm sure there are decisions she would have been more involved in instead of allowing him to make such large decisions without any input from those around him. There was no doubt he had love for EVERYONE; he was that kind of guy, but the choices he made will forever affect his family. I can see his smiling face now as I type this as he was always smiling and hugging someone, especially his kids. Just so much that can happen and we can't plan for everything, but I sure see a sad young lady a couple times a week....I do offer a hug but that's really all to offer till she gets her grounding back. Just a ramble.
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Old 01-27-2021, 02:08 PM
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I'm sorry about the loss of your cousin and how his family will deal with it all. What a devastating thing to have happen.
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Old 01-28-2021, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
This thread makes me 'really' stand back and think about life, in general. My cousin that just passed in a car accident July 2020 at age 36 had a wife and five children (ages 8 months to age 9).....he was the bread winner but he was also the decision maker....she is lost...he was poor with finances but had finally gotten a stable job and seemed to be climbing the ladder quickly. He chose not to immunize the kids so now she can't send the kids to public school. So her life is forever changed and the consequences thereof. She has a house that is half-finished. She had just as much choice as he did to have 5 children and they are/were wonderful caring parents...but I see how our, including mine, decisions each moment really can have future consequences. Sure, she is getting a large settlement from the wreck as it was a large company owned vehicle that hit him killing him instantly....but she would give all that money back to have him back. She is a STRONG christian individual and has an even stronger support system but looking back I'm sure there are decisions she would have been more involved in instead of allowing him to make such large decisions without any input from those around him. There was no doubt he had love for EVERYONE; he was that kind of guy, but the choices he made will forever affect his family. I can see his smiling face now as I type this as he was always smiling and hugging someone, especially his kids. Just so much that can happen and we can't plan for everything, but I sure see a sad young lady a couple times a week....I do offer a hug but that's really all to offer till she gets her grounding back. Just a ramble.
I'm so sorry for your loss
I do agree, every choice affects our futures - whether we know it or not. It is a very scary thought.
I hope your cousins wife and their children are doing better
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