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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Nap Saga Continues
clep 07:45 AM 04-05-2013
So mom drops off daughter yesterday with the child in hysterics. In the last two years this has not been the norm at all. When I ask her what is going on, she shares that the child cries at bedtime for the last month about not wanting to come to day home. Mom is wondering what the reason could be. Personally I think the child is using emotional manipulation at night so she doesn't' have to go to sleep. I would never have known she has an issue coming had mom not told me. She is exactly the same as usual here. She cries in the morning about not wanting to come now I hear and acts yesterday like she is fearing for her life. I just scooped her up to another area and she settled right away and started her normal day.
This morning same thing, except I didn't scoop her up and left it to see what would happen with mom and her. She physically pushed her way past the gate in a screaming hysterical frenzy, over and over. Mom finally get's her on my side of the gate and closes the gate, walks up the stairs and out the door. Before mom was even out of sight, child quits the hysterics...I mean on a dime, walks to her cubby, puts her blankie in it and is off to play!!!!!!!
Mom noticed and looked back but didn't say anything.
I mean I know this particular child is increasingly in control of her parents, but this is getting ridiculous.
Mom tells me today that she took the child to the dr and he says she doesn't need to nap.
He isn't the one dealing with an exhausted child all day. On Mondays and Thursdays she has terrible mornings as the parents have her on the weekends. She is fine after a nap.
Mom has just read the book "Sleepless in America", and was receptive at first but gave up on it. They are extremely inconsistent parents and admit that openly.
I am getting pretty tired of hearing new development and reason this child should not nap so she will go to bed better for them at night. Every day I hear a comment about....well she is tired today cause she didn't get to bed as usual since she sleeps here, etc, etc. Now today with the dr.
I have tried ignoring her and not responding, but she is really pushing me to stop napping her child. This has been going on for a couple of months. How to shut this parent up? I am starting to dread my mornings now with the drama.
This morning same thing, except I didn't scoop her up and left it to see what would happen with mom and her. She physically pushed her way past the gate in a screaming hysterical frenzy, over and over. Mom finally get's her on my side of the gate and closes the gate, walks up the stairs and out the door. Before mom was even out of sight, child quits the hysterics...I mean on a dime, walks to her cubby, puts her blankie in it and is off to play!!!!!!!
Mom noticed and looked back but didn't say anything.I mean I know this particular child is increasingly in control of her parents, but this is getting ridiculous.
Mom tells me today that she took the child to the dr and he says she doesn't need to nap.
He isn't the one dealing with an exhausted child all day. On Mondays and Thursdays she has terrible mornings as the parents have her on the weekends. She is fine after a nap.Mom has just read the book "Sleepless in America", and was receptive at first but gave up on it. They are extremely inconsistent parents and admit that openly.
I am getting pretty tired of hearing new development and reason this child should not nap so she will go to bed better for them at night. Every day I hear a comment about....well she is tired today cause she didn't get to bed as usual since she sleeps here, etc, etc. Now today with the dr.
I have tried ignoring her and not responding, but she is really pushing me to stop napping her child. This has been going on for a couple of months. How to shut this parent up? I am starting to dread my mornings now with the drama.
LaLa1923 08:12 AM 04-05-2013
Originally Posted by clep:
So mom drops off daughter yesterday with the child in hysterics. In the last two years this has not been the norm at all. When I ask her what is going on, she shares that the child cries at bedtime for the last month about not wanting to come to day home. Mom is wondering what the reason could be. Personally I think the child is using emotional manipulation at night so she doesn't' have to go to sleep. I would never have known she has an issue coming had mom not told me. She is exactly the same as usual here. She cries in the morning about not wanting to come now I hear and acts yesterday like she is fearing for her life. I just scooped her up to another area and she settled right away and started her normal day.
This morning same thing, except I didn't scoop her up and left it to see what would happen with mom and her. She physically pushed her way past the gate in a screaming hysterical frenzy, over and over. Mom finally get's her on my side of the gate and closes the gate, walks up the stairs and out the door. Before mom was even out of sight, child quits the hysterics...I mean on a dime, walks to her cubby, puts her blankie in it and is off to play!!!!!!! Mom noticed and looked back but didn't say anything.
How old
I mean I know this particular child is increasingly in control of her parents, but this is getting ridiculous.
Mom tells me today that she took the child to the dr and he says she doesn't need to nap. He isn't the one dealing with an exhausted child all day. On Mondays and Thursdays she has terrible mornings as the parents have her on the weekends. She is fine after a nap.
Mom has just read the book "Sleepless in America", and was receptive at first but gave up on it. They are extremely inconsistent parents and admit that openly.
I am getting pretty tired of hearing new development and reason this child should not nap so she will go to bed better for them at night. Every day I hear a comment about....well she is tired today cause she didn't get to bed as usual since she sleeps here, etc, etc. Now today with the dr.
I have tried ignoring her and not responding, but she is really pushing me to stop napping her child. This has been going on for a couple of months. How to shut this parent up? I am starting to dread my mornings now with the drama.
How old is dcg?So mom drops off daughter yesterday with the child in hysterics. In the last two years this has not been the norm at all. When I ask her what is going on, she shares that the child cries at bedtime for the last month about not wanting to come to day home. Mom is wondering what the reason could be. Personally I think the child is using emotional manipulation at night so she doesn't' have to go to sleep. I would never have known she has an issue coming had mom not told me. She is exactly the same as usual here. She cries in the morning about not wanting to come now I hear and acts yesterday like she is fearing for her life. I just scooped her up to another area and she settled right away and started her normal day.
This morning same thing, except I didn't scoop her up and left it to see what would happen with mom and her. She physically pushed her way past the gate in a screaming hysterical frenzy, over and over. Mom finally get's her on my side of the gate and closes the gate, walks up the stairs and out the door. Before mom was even out of sight, child quits the hysterics...I mean on a dime, walks to her cubby, puts her blankie in it and is off to play!!!!!!!
Mom noticed and looked back but didn't say anything.How old
I mean I know this particular child is increasingly in control of her parents, but this is getting ridiculous.
Mom tells me today that she took the child to the dr and he says she doesn't need to nap.
He isn't the one dealing with an exhausted child all day. On Mondays and Thursdays she has terrible mornings as the parents have her on the weekends. She is fine after a nap.Mom has just read the book "Sleepless in America", and was receptive at first but gave up on it. They are extremely inconsistent parents and admit that openly.
I am getting pretty tired of hearing new development and reason this child should not nap so she will go to bed better for them at night. Every day I hear a comment about....well she is tired today cause she didn't get to bed as usual since she sleeps here, etc, etc. Now today with the dr.
I have tried ignoring her and not responding, but she is really pushing me to stop napping her child. This has been going on for a couple of months. How to shut this parent up? I am starting to dread my mornings now with the drama.
clep 08:26 AM 04-05-2013
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
How old is dcg?
Just turned three last week.How old is dcg?
LaLa1923 08:33 AM 04-05-2013
Originally Posted by clep:
Just turned three last week.
I would check your regs. We are required to nap all children 5 and under. She just wants an easier night. I don't nap my three year old every day, but some days I do. Every child is different. He does have to have quiet rest though, he looks at books or something quiet.Just turned three last week.
Starburst 09:01 AM 04-05-2013
Maybe ask mom about her night time routines? Do they do any relaxing type of rituals like a bath, brush teeth, and a story? Or do they just let her watch TV and play until it's time for bed (may seem relaxing to adults but it riels up kids)? Do they have any physical family activities like a 15 minute walk after dinner- burn some energy a few hours before nap time?
Also what time is her bed time? Do they put her to bed after dinner and expected her to sleep until 6 or 7 in the morning? Sleeping for too long in one setting is not good for you because it makes you just as groggy as if you didn't sleep at all and even sleepier unless you were seriously sleep deprived for a while. Not to mention if she is in a diaper it is not good for her to sit in her waste for that long and if she is potty training she will most likely have accidents if she has to wait that long.
I am putting in my contract that all kids under the age of 5 will be offered a mat (or a crib for infants) at nap time, they don't need to go to sleep but they do need to be on their mat and be quiet for the other kids during nap time. 4-5 year olds may get a book to read (or look through) as long as they can be quiet but no toys and no TV. I know one local provider who said that she doesn't care if the kids sleep or not but the regulations say they need to be quiet and she doesn't take school agers anymore so she requires all kids to take a rest period. I also put: "Naps are essential for the cognitive and physical development of young children" in my handbook.
Also what time is her bed time? Do they put her to bed after dinner and expected her to sleep until 6 or 7 in the morning? Sleeping for too long in one setting is not good for you because it makes you just as groggy as if you didn't sleep at all and even sleepier unless you were seriously sleep deprived for a while. Not to mention if she is in a diaper it is not good for her to sit in her waste for that long and if she is potty training she will most likely have accidents if she has to wait that long.
I am putting in my contract that all kids under the age of 5 will be offered a mat (or a crib for infants) at nap time, they don't need to go to sleep but they do need to be on their mat and be quiet for the other kids during nap time. 4-5 year olds may get a book to read (or look through) as long as they can be quiet but no toys and no TV. I know one local provider who said that she doesn't care if the kids sleep or not but the regulations say they need to be quiet and she doesn't take school agers anymore so she requires all kids to take a rest period. I also put: "Naps are essential for the cognitive and physical development of young children" in my handbook.
clep 09:24 AM 04-05-2013
Originally Posted by Starburst:
Maybe ask mom about her night time routines? Do they do any relaxing type of rituals like a bath, brush teeth, and a story? Or do they just let her watch TV and play until it's time for bed (may seem relaxing to adults but it riels up kids)? Do they have any physical family activities like a 15 minute walk after dinner- burn some energy a few hours before nap time?
Also what time is her bed time? Do they put her to bed after dinner and expected her to sleep until 6 or 7 in the morning? Sleeping for too long in one setting is not good for you because it makes you just as groggy as if you didn't sleep at all and even sleepier unless you were seriously sleep deprived for a while. Not to mention if she is in a diaper it is not good for her to sit in her waste for that long and if she is potty training she will most likely have accidents if she has to wait that long.
I am putting in my contract that all kids under the age of 5 will be offered a mat (or a crib for infants) at nap time, they don't need to go to sleep but they do need to be on their mat and be quiet for the other kids during nap time. 4-5 year olds may get a book to read (or look through) as long as they can be quiet but no toys and no TV. I know one local provider who said that she doesn't care if the kids sleep or not but the regulations say they need to be quiet and she doesn't take school agers anymore so she requires all kids to take a rest period. I also put that naps are essential for cognitive and physical development.
We have gone over night time routines. They put her to bed at 8, she plays and runs around until 10 or 11, then she falls asleep. She wakes at 6. If mom stays with her she yells while playing and won't quit moving. Her go to thing to stay awake is to stay moving. They haven't tried any particular routine for more than two days as they are very inconsistent. They tried what I suggested for one night and then quit, yet she fell asleep for that one night very well. Maybe ask mom about her night time routines? Do they do any relaxing type of rituals like a bath, brush teeth, and a story? Or do they just let her watch TV and play until it's time for bed (may seem relaxing to adults but it riels up kids)? Do they have any physical family activities like a 15 minute walk after dinner- burn some energy a few hours before nap time?
Also what time is her bed time? Do they put her to bed after dinner and expected her to sleep until 6 or 7 in the morning? Sleeping for too long in one setting is not good for you because it makes you just as groggy as if you didn't sleep at all and even sleepier unless you were seriously sleep deprived for a while. Not to mention if she is in a diaper it is not good for her to sit in her waste for that long and if she is potty training she will most likely have accidents if she has to wait that long.
I am putting in my contract that all kids under the age of 5 will be offered a mat (or a crib for infants) at nap time, they don't need to go to sleep but they do need to be on their mat and be quiet for the other kids during nap time. 4-5 year olds may get a book to read (or look through) as long as they can be quiet but no toys and no TV. I know one local provider who said that she doesn't care if the kids sleep or not but the regulations say they need to be quiet and she doesn't take school agers anymore so she requires all kids to take a rest period. I also put that naps are essential for cognitive and physical development.
If she doesn't nap she is so exhausted in the afternoon and all night, but sleeps as soon as she lays down I am told.
Having her stay on a mat without a nap is fine with me, but she falls asleep as she just can't stay awake. I figure if she naps she needs it. The want me to keep her up so she sleeps at night.
I have checked with regulations in my area and I don't have to provide a rest time to any children regardless of age.
I go by what the child tells me and I do not see any signs in this child that she can go without a nap. I have had other children who didn't nap but rested in the past and there was no issue. I figure if they aren't tired they won't sleep.
daycarediva 10:14 AM 04-05-2013
I tell ALL of my families 'if they have outgrown nap, they have outgrown my program'.
Also- I think this is just laziness and seems to be a growing trend. If a child falls asleep, they need the rest. Don't blame the provider who is giving your child a set schedule, and consistent routine and enough structure and reinforcement that they actually listen and stay on their mats. Maybe if they were able to stay consistent at home, she would be going to bed at a decent time and getting enough rest.
How long is she napping at your house? I *might* compromise with them and give a SHORTER nap (I do that with a 3.5yo in care) but that would be about all I would be willing to change.
Also- I think this is just laziness and seems to be a growing trend. If a child falls asleep, they need the rest. Don't blame the provider who is giving your child a set schedule, and consistent routine and enough structure and reinforcement that they actually listen and stay on their mats. Maybe if they were able to stay consistent at home, she would be going to bed at a decent time and getting enough rest.
How long is she napping at your house? I *might* compromise with them and give a SHORTER nap (I do that with a 3.5yo in care) but that would be about all I would be willing to change.
Starburst 10:38 AM 04-05-2013
Originally Posted by clep:
We have gone over night time routines. They put her to bed at 8, she plays and runs around until 10 or 11, then she falls asleep. She wakes at 6. If mom stays with her she yells while playing and won't quit moving. Her go to thing to stay awake is to stay moving. They haven't tried any particular routine for more than two days as they are very inconsistent. They tried what I suggested for one night and then quit, yet she fell asleep for that one night very well.
If she doesn't nap she is so exhausted in the afternoon and all night, but sleeps as soon as she lays down I am told.
Having her stay on a mat without a nap is fine with me, but she falls asleep as she just can't stay awake. I figure if she naps she needs it. The want me to keep her up so she sleeps at night.
Maybe you can tell them that she is tired around nap time and if goes to sleep that it is against you code of ethics to deprive a child of regular meals, water, regular diaper changes/ restroom use, and of voluntary sleep during quiet time and that you will not deprive a child of these rights either as a form of punishment or if the parents request it- unless the parent plans to pick up with in the first 1/2 hour of quiet time or first 5 minutes of meal times. Maybe if you have a philosophy for your program on a website or in the parent handbook put that in your philosophy or put it in your handbook under guidance, meals, quiet time, have its own area of "Code of Ethics" or just as a disclaimer.We have gone over night time routines. They put her to bed at 8, she plays and runs around until 10 or 11, then she falls asleep. She wakes at 6. If mom stays with her she yells while playing and won't quit moving. Her go to thing to stay awake is to stay moving. They haven't tried any particular routine for more than two days as they are very inconsistent. They tried what I suggested for one night and then quit, yet she fell asleep for that one night very well.
If she doesn't nap she is so exhausted in the afternoon and all night, but sleeps as soon as she lays down I am told.
Having her stay on a mat without a nap is fine with me, but she falls asleep as she just can't stay awake. I figure if she naps she needs it. The want me to keep her up so she sleeps at night.
cheerfuldom 12:49 PM 04-05-2013
too much discussion here. it doesnt matter what is going on at home so stop talking about that. if your program includes a mandatory nap, then just say "we nap here. if Jessica no longer needs a nap at daycare, then you will need to start looking for a program that provides no-napping service. Dont forget to provide 2 weeks notice and payment as your contract states" every time she starts talking about naps, say the same thing over to her. no discussions, no back and forth, no trying to help them figure it out. just "we take naps here and its not negotiable. if Jessica needs something else, you will need to go to another daycare that provides that"
AmyKidsCo 01:10 PM 04-05-2013
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
too much discussion here. it doesnt matter what is going on at home so stop talking about that. if your program includes a mandatory nap, then just say "we nap here. if Jessica no longer needs a nap at daycare, then you will need to start looking for a program that provides no-napping service. Dont forget to provide 2 weeks notice and payment as your contract states" every time she starts talking about naps, say the same thing over to her. no discussions, no back and forth, no trying to help them figure it out. just "we take naps here and its not negotiable. if Jessica needs something else, you will need to go to another daycare that provides that"
too much discussion here. it doesnt matter what is going on at home so stop talking about that. if your program includes a mandatory nap, then just say "we nap here. if Jessica no longer needs a nap at daycare, then you will need to start looking for a program that provides no-napping service. Dont forget to provide 2 weeks notice and payment as your contract states" every time she starts talking about naps, say the same thing over to her. no discussions, no back and forth, no trying to help them figure it out. just "we take naps here and its not negotiable. if Jessica needs something else, you will need to go to another daycare that provides that"
Good reminder that sometimes we need to stop trying to fix everything and just stick to our policies.
Angelsj 07:23 AM 04-06-2013
No naps does NOT make for better sleep at night. It has been shown again and again that sleep begets sleep. A child who is overly tired does not sleep well.
You might be able to track down a brochure with not only this information, but also info on how to get the child to rest better at night.
You might be able to track down a brochure with not only this information, but also info on how to get the child to rest better at night.
jenn 10:15 AM 04-06-2013
I have told many "If your child no longer needs to nap, then they no longer fit into my program. Let me know when you find a new place to send him/her".
I have one now that comes in exhausted everyday, because she either doesn't want to go to sleep at night or gets up at 4 in the morning. They tried saying it was because of napping here. Sorry, but you may have to spend some actual time with your child in the evenings. Try doing some activities in the evening to wear her out. Get a night time routine. I'm sorry that your 2 1/2 year old won't go to sleep at 6:30-7 pm (after her 5:45 pick up from my house) and sleep until 7 am. Not my problem.
I have one now that comes in exhausted everyday, because she either doesn't want to go to sleep at night or gets up at 4 in the morning. They tried saying it was because of napping here. Sorry, but you may have to spend some actual time with your child in the evenings. Try doing some activities in the evening to wear her out. Get a night time routine. I'm sorry that your 2 1/2 year old won't go to sleep at 6:30-7 pm (after her 5:45 pick up from my house) and sleep until 7 am. Not my problem.
youretooloud 11:55 AM 04-06-2013
I let my kids watch a movie at nap time. Some sleep, some don't. They leave shortly after nap anyway, so it's not ruining my day. But, those who DON'T sleep make mom and dad miserable for the next five hours.
I've never heard of a parent suggesting a new three year old doesn't need a nap. I've had them ask me what time they wake up, but never asked me to keep them awake.
The closer they get to four, the less often they nap. But, they lie on their beds and watch the movie, so it isn't a big deal. They understand they need to be silent so the little ones can sleep. They also understand that if they aren't silent, I will move their beds, and they won't see the television.
I've never heard of a parent suggesting a new three year old doesn't need a nap. I've had them ask me what time they wake up, but never asked me to keep them awake.
The closer they get to four, the less often they nap. But, they lie on their beds and watch the movie, so it isn't a big deal. They understand they need to be silent so the little ones can sleep. They also understand that if they aren't silent, I will move their beds, and they won't see the television.
MNMum 01:49 PM 04-06-2013
I have a similar situation with the drop offs. I have a 2.3 yr old whose mother came in on Thursday asking me if there is something going on here. Apparently child doesn't want to go to daycare in the mornings. Dad drops her 3 days, mom 1 day. On day dad drops she is full smile and says bye and that's that. On the mom day she has a complete meltdown lately. She is fine 30 seconds after mom walks out the door.
This is my drama queen and she is an only child and has her mom wrapped around her little finger...
This is my drama queen and she is an only child and has her mom wrapped around her little finger...
clep 02:08 PM 04-08-2013
Originally Posted by jenn:
I have told many "If your child no longer needs to nap, then they no longer fit into my program. Let me know when you find a new place to send him/her".
I have one now that comes in exhausted everyday, because she either doesn't want to go to sleep at night or gets up at 4 in the morning. They tried saying it was because of napping here. Sorry, but you may have to spend some actual time with your child in the evenings. Try doing some activities in the evening to wear her out. Get a night time routine. I'm sorry that your 2 1/2 year old won't go to sleep at 6:30-7 pm (after her 5:45 pick up from my house) and sleep until 7 am. Not my problem.
Friday pickup was extreme. Dad and mom came and let me know quite firmly they are requesting she not nap. I asked them what that looks like for them. They asked me to do what I am already doing!!!! They had a very hard time believing I don't coax her to sleep, lay there rubbing her back etc. I let them know that if she sleeps she sleeps, and if she doesn't, she doesn't. l will not try to force a child to sleep or wake them up. I also reminded them of how night and day the child is with me and them, which mom saw that morning. I also let them know it is not my issue if they cannot set or maintain reasonable boundaries with their child and it is not up to me to fix that for them.I have told many "If your child no longer needs to nap, then they no longer fit into my program. Let me know when you find a new place to send him/her".
I have one now that comes in exhausted everyday, because she either doesn't want to go to sleep at night or gets up at 4 in the morning. They tried saying it was because of napping here. Sorry, but you may have to spend some actual time with your child in the evenings. Try doing some activities in the evening to wear her out. Get a night time routine. I'm sorry that your 2 1/2 year old won't go to sleep at 6:30-7 pm (after her 5:45 pick up from my house) and sleep until 7 am. Not my problem.
Now they are asking me to let her read a book hoping that will keep her awake. The day home room is really too dark to read but I am capable of giving her a book and let them know if she is noisy and talking lots the books will be gone and so will they.
Regardless, I love the children dearly, but am so sick of permissive parents. I have decided to close my day home doors July 1st. I run another business online from home that makes me more than four times the money my day home does so I don't need to keep it running.
My employee called in sick today and won't be here tomorrow so I had to cancel all my calls for my other business today to work in the day home full time today. It is yet another reminder that it is time to close my doors. My other business is quiet, completely online and I receive a ton of support from co workers, travel and just love it so time to make the change.
Thanks for your input people.
LittleD 02:45 PM 04-08-2013
Good for you!
I love children, I really do, but running a home daycare has made me not want to be around kids (besides my own) after hours.
I'm happy to hear that you have something better lined up!
I love children, I really do, but running a home daycare has made me not want to be around kids (besides my own) after hours.
I'm happy to hear that you have something better lined up!
clep 02:55 PM 04-08-2013
Originally Posted by LittleD:
Good for you!
I love children, I really do, but running a home daycare has made me not want to be around kids (besides my own) after hours.
I'm happy to hear that you have something better lined up!
Thanks. I have had my other business for almost a year now. I had a hard time leaving two of my children, and was also concerned I wasn't going to make enough money consistently. Not sure why I ever thought that. If I can run a day home successfully, I can do anything. Good for you!
I love children, I really do, but running a home daycare has made me not want to be around kids (besides my own) after hours.
I'm happy to hear that you have something better lined up!
Starburst 07:04 PM 04-08-2013
Originally Posted by clep:
Regardless, I love the children dearly, but am so sick of permissive parents. I have decided to close my day home doors July 1st. I run another business online from home that makes me more than four times the money my day home does so I don't need to keep it running.
I think most people go into home daycare because they love kids, but many of them leave because of the parents. I know that will be one of my biggest problems because I am really awkward around adults- I'm working on it though.Regardless, I love the children dearly, but am so sick of permissive parents. I have decided to close my day home doors July 1st. I run another business online from home that makes me more than four times the money my day home does so I don't need to keep it running.