Another question from my cousin newborns holding the spots...

They are both paying for a full time spot, one is only MWF, the other have notified me that over the next couple of months, they might only use the spot half time, but want to make sure the spot is available full time.

My side is
1. If I know they are not going to be here on a Tuesday, and I get a phone call for a drop in, do I have to refund my enrolled family for the day? Legally?

2. How much notice is fair to ask for. I like to know what's going on with my week in advance, so I can plan field trips, Dr. appointments etc.

In my opinion, if they choose not to use their spot one day, it's non of their business what I do with the spot. Is there a law that I can't have 2 ppl paying for the same spot? I'm in VA if that matters

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First, I think it's entirely fair for you to need a schedule at least one week in advance (so submit the schedule for sept 30-oct 4 by sept 23). Whatever they scheulde, they pay for whether they use it or not.

Second, I do think it's fair for you to accept drop ins for days they don't schedule or don't use, even if they pay and don't use...and it's fair to not refund them. they did schedule it after all

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Thank you. I am really struggling with these people!!!

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I agree to PP that they should give you a schedule. I would just tell the family you need a schedule so that you can plan activities and meals for THEIR child. I wouldn't tell them it's so you can take other drop ins...

I do accept drop ins if I have a family out. I don't refund the money of the regular family. It was their choice to use the spot or not, but it was MY choice to also accept a drop in if it works for my schedule - not really any of their business, IMO.

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This is how I feel as well. I sent an email back, and I did spell it out that I need to know b/c of
Scheduling trips
Meal planning
and If I had a call for a drop in

I wanted them to know about the drop ins b/c they seemed to be asking that. Their question was " we are going to keep dcb home half of the time for the first couple of weeks. We assume his spot will remain open, since we are paying for it?

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Sorry to hijack your thread but Just curious, how would any of you handle it if the other family showed up on a day they were not scheduled but had still paid for full time.

How would you explain it if they wanted a refund because you couldn't cover care for that day?

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MCC- what happened to terming them? Just curious

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I told Mom I couldn't accomidate the schedule change, and she said, Oh ok, we will just have my dad watch her, or re-arrange our work schedule.

Blackcat was right! I should have just said peace out, it's not working. Gah.

I wish I had the guts to post the email they wrote to me this morning....asking me about MY future children, i.e. if we have more, will there kid have a spot, are we planning on having more...etc.

I have the money to refund them sitting in an account and I just keep staring at it like "just do it MC, just do it!" If I only had no heart.

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That is so stressful to have to work like that. I myself only accept full-time people. I can't do this maybe twice this week or maybe three times next, and maybe no time the week after that.

If I accept part-timers, they will have to be on a set day schedule. The only schedule I'm willing to be flexible on is a parent who is at school full-time and the semester has changed and now they have a new schedule.

When I was previously opened, I accepted schedules like yours and it was a hot mess. I ended up having too many in care because the parent couldn't make up their mind if they'll bring that day. Then when I accept a drop-in, here comes the parent because they figured they can just roll right on in because they paid. Never mind them telling me they will not use the spot that day.

So, on top of not accepting part-timers (unless their schedule is set the same days), I no longer accept drop-ins unless it's through my current families.

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If a family showed up and failed to first communicate it with me, I'd be very tempted to term. I find that terribly disrespectful. If they had scheduled to be off, maybe I would have scheduled to not work... KWIM?

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I also DO NOT accept part time families unless they are on a set schedule, and they HAVE to pay full rate b/c I don't have a PT rate.

These people interview with the the intent to be full time. The mom is taking 12 weeks mat leave, but I told them I wanted the baby to start by 8 weeks (to avoid bad habits starting at home). They agreed to start the baby at 8 weeks. Now they are saying they want to "ease" the baby in during November and possibly Dec. So he would be here some days, not here others, and half day others.... This is NOT what I agreed to, nor do I want to deal with it. Problem is, they are paying to hold the spot, and I feel morally obligated to keep them. Though they are rapidly convincing me I shouldn't.

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I only accept part timers if they have set days. I have one family that comes Monday-Wednesday every week. I accept drop ins on Thursday and Friday to fill that spot.

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I charge full time for infants even if they only come 1, 2, 3 or 4 days. If they schedule 2 days then I am not available the days they scheduled "off" but they still pay full week. Infant demand is high here so if one person doesnt pay, another will IMO.

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Yes, this is how I feel as well. I think I need to lay down the law with these families or term them.

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So, IMO easing the baby in to day care while the mom is still on mat leave sounds totally reasonable. As a parent, that's definitely what I would want to do. And, as a parent, I wouldn't be opposed to scheduling the ENTIRE 4 weeks of 'easing in' with you ahead of time. It's not like it will be the whole time you have the baby that the schedule will be crazy, just four weeks, if I am reading correctly. I would ask them to sit down with you now to schedule the best way to ease an infant into day care --- start with a few hours on a few days, one nap a few days, then two naps a few days, then all day by the end of the four weeks. I wouldn't think it would be a big deal, esp when they are paying FT, and you could be part of the scheduling so it wouldn't disrupt the rest of your day. Just MHO.

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Yes! If they are writing you letters asking about you future children!?
I say Jump ship!!

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I have no problem with them easing him in, keeping in mind that it is completely for their benefit, as he is 8 weeks old, and I have never came across an 8 week old that had separation anxiety. The problem I am seeing is that they don't want me to use the empty spot when he isn't here, they want it to be available.

I also feel that when I have had the hardest times adjusting a child, it has been when they were being eased in. I have had the best success when the child just starts full time.

I don't really need to have drop ins here, I rarely take drop ins anyway, but I do want the flexibility to leave the house if he isn't coming. YKWIM? The question they asked seemed like they wanted to kind of play it by ear the first couple of weeks. One day bring him all day, the next day the sleep in and bring him around 11, it just didn't seem very organized.

I can also see it being disruptive to have him here for half days, but I guess I can ensure they are picking up at convenient times for us.

Thanks so much for the input

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I don't let people show up whenever they wish without notice.

It says in my contract that if they have not arrived by 9AM or have not called by 9AM to let me know their schedule.....we consider them absent for the entire day. They agree that there is a possibility we may give the spot to a drop in or if numbers are low enough, I may give my assistant the day off.

They will then be turned away at the door and no refund is given.

Their weekly fee does not include the right to disrupt the day any time they feel like it.

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Yes, I agree entirely.
Also are you saying they won't be coming full time but expect you to have a full time spot available? I hope they will be paying for the FT spot...

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Yes- they are paying for the full time spot.

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Wow, I can't believe I'm the only one who wouldn't do it. I they are paying for a full time spot, it's not right (IMO), to offer someone else the spot. Why the heck are they paying for it?

I am not saying they should be able to come in at any time of day or with no notice, but if I was paying for a full time spot and usually didn't come on Monday, but for some reason called on Monday morning and said I need to bring my kid, yes I would expect to be able to. Not to show up at 11am with no notice, but to call on Monday at 8am and say "in the end I am bringing them today, just so you know."

(I am not talking here about times when a trip was scheduled adn there is no transportation or something, I am talking about a regular day)

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I don't charge when children don't attend so it really doesn't apply to me, BUT if I did I would count my lucky stars and enjoy a lighter day. It seems silly to fill a spot that's already being paid for.

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You're not the only one. I did it once but felt bad about it. The mom got upset but she didn't want the spot that day and the drop in really was in a bind. But still, I felt kind of bad because this mom has been my best customer ever over the years. She got over it but still....

Then again, I was thinking about this and airlines and hotels do it. I'm not a big traveler but I think they do. Isn't that what airline standby is? I doubt they give the person who made the reservation their money back.

Still, I'd never do it again. I think our business is a bit unique in that we have to look at the person every day.

Laurel

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No, you're not the only one. I wouldn't feel right about having a parent pay to hold a spot but then saying they can't use it - I would require more notice then a phone call that AM (unless it was an emergency on the families part and they were otherwise good about following policy) I just would not feel right about it.

More importantly, I don't think a policy that parents paying for spots the provider didn't allow them to use would hold up in court if push came to shove.

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This is what I was looking for/worried about.

The thing is, I havn't taken a drop in since March, I don't advertise that I take them, and my website says I am FULL. I am just trying to make sure I am explaining to DCP that the spot is not going to be "Open" without a weeks notice. I did want to make sure I threw in the "drop in" scenario, in the event that it came up.

The bigger issue I see coming up is them telling me he isn't coming, I end up leaving the house b/c with a light load it is much easier, and then them showing up wanting care. Does anyone know if this is an issue in court? I know a PP mentioned marking them absent at 9, and moving on with the day?

Anyway, after sleeping on it, I think I am going to offer them an option to pay a part time rate (higher than my weekly rate) and that way they don't feel like they are paying for a spot someone else is using. For me, the numbers are the same, since the part time rate is higher, but to them, it might feel better.

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First, your CONTRACT needs to back this up.

In my parent contract I list their contracted care.

Such as 4 days a week from x to x.

Then I put "schedule changes are x hours or x weeks in advance"

For clarification, on contracted care, if they say they are bringing them Monday, Wednesday, and Friday of next week and then Tuesday morning they call me up saying they are coming, I remind them, schedule changes are done x in advance.

If you are doing contracted care and not open to close care, that's what covers you in court.

Also, when you get your schedule for e next week, fill out an official schedule request every time. That also backs yu up.

Their full time pay entitles them to pick their days or hours tec for each week. It doesn't entitle em to drop in status.

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A provider on another forum I am on had an issue like this. Though she wasn't taking drop ins, she was having the parents pay for care she was unwilling/unable to provide. She did NOT win in court.
I imagine if the judge saw that she was having the one parent pay, not letting them use the spot, but then having a drop in and getting "double" pay essentially he would have had a lot more to say.
And all this was *with* a contract.

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Thank you. This is really helpful information.

I think I just came up with a solution anyway. There are two families involved here (mom's are sisters) They both want a part time spot, but I only offer full time rates, so..... Does it seem fair to say that they can have a part time rate if family A is on MWF, and family B is on Tu/th. This negates them being able to have the whole week available, but it also saves them money, and me a headache. Then rather than these 2 babies taking up two full spots, they are only taking up one spot and only paying for what they are using?

make sense? Thanks so much for all this help!

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I don't read the OP's situation as "not LETTING them use the spot". I read it as, parents say "I need care Tuesday, wednesday, and Friday next week." and pay for 3 days of care. Then Tuesday night the tell her, "Oh by the way, we don't need you tomorrow after all." But they don't' get refunded, per the contract saying that they pay for what they schedule, not what they use.

THEN Wednesday morning she gets a call for a drop-in, "I am in such a bind, can you watch my kid today?" and because the other family decided NOT to use the spot, she can take the drop-in at the drop-in rate.

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mthats how I read it too. That's not refusing to let them have their spot.

Like many of us here have said before. Parents tell us on Monday they will be on vacation and kid won't be here in we'd through Friday and then we'd morning saying oops can I bring him. My answer to parent would be NOPE. schedule changes are x y and z. End of story.

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In that case it might be one thing, but the way I read it was the family was paying for a FT spot, but not using all the days - she takes a drop in and the original family calls/ shows saying they need to use the spot after all.

Legally, I don't know if the provider has a leg to stand on.

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Does the answer for you change if the 'drop in' is a non-paying child, like a family member or perhaps one of your child's friends?

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I don't take family member or close friends anymore for no payment. I watched my friends kids for a week in March and it was the hardest week I've had all year, they did not pay me (I told them not to), and I ended up having to turn down paying drop ins b/c of it. So, now I don't take them.

But- I do think that if a neighbor/friend was coming over and not paying it would not have anything to do with the paying family.

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What I offered to them was this:

If a drop in comes on a day that they are paying for but not using, I will issue them a credit on their next payment. I will still need a weeks notice of all schedules. I felt like this was a little more human?

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Tha ys one reason that I like doing contracted care ONLY. Then there are fewer IFS.

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For me, it wouldn't be worth the little bit of extra money. I think I would prefer to get paid the reg rate and have a lighter workload for the day than take a drop-in for only $10 extra (the difference between my reg rate and drop in rate).

Regardless of how you do it, though, you should be happy with it.

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