Irritated Old Member 09:20 AM 09-26-2012
I don't understand why this is an unpopular topic, but from now on I will be doing it. I'd encourage everyone else who has put in the work to do the same.
Actively.
I am tired of jumping through hoop after hoop ($$$$$ and time) only to be surrounded with illegal providers who don't even try to hide it. I am not speaking of Legally Unlicensed providers, they are LEGAL. I am talking about all the ones under cutting and stealing the ads/handbooks/photos of providers who have worked hard to get where they are.
The 3 inspectors I have spoken with in the last few weeks say they can't legally seek them out (Unbelievable!!!!), they have to be reported first. This fact, that somehow is not public information?, makes it is our own fault they are getting away with it.
It is time the inspectors stopped nit-picking us and started investigating them, instead. The playing field needs to be leveled.
Country Kids 10:09 AM 09-26-2012
I have a friend who works for the state childcare division. They do browse craigslist and call the people and talk to them. Its amazing how suddenly their ads disappear after that.
canadiancare 10:32 AM 09-26-2012
I am not sure what an illegal provider is in your area. Here it would be someone who is unlicensed and also caring for more than 5 children under the age of ten. I am unlicensed but I am registered with the college of early childhood educators and run my home daycare following the rules. I chose to be unlicensed as I don't want an agency dictating which families I will take on or set my fees.
The families who use illegal/over ratio daycares here do so to save a buck.
rhymia1 10:40 AM 09-26-2012
Originally Posted by canadiancare:
I am not sure what an illegal provider is in your area. Here it would be someone who is unlicensed and also caring for more than 5 children under the age of ten. I am unlicensed but I am registered with the college of early childhood educators and run my home daycare following the rules. I chose to be unlicensed as I don't want an agency dictating which families I will take on or set my fees.
The families who use illegal/over ratio daycares here do so to save a buck.
In my state if you care for more than 2 children then you are illegal. The only way it would be allowed is if a family member were caring for related kids (grandkids, usually). I wish we could have 5. I wouldn't get licensed if that were the case.
Originally Posted by Irritated Old Member:
I don't understand why this is an unpopular topic, but from now on I will be doing it. I'd encourage everyone else who has put in the work to do the same.
Actively.
I am tired of jumping through hoop after hoop ($$$$$ and time) only to be surrounded with illegal providers who don't even try to hide it. I am not speaking of Legally Unlicensed providers, they are LEGAL. I am talking about all the ones under cutting and stealing the ads/handbooks/photos of providers who have worked hard to get where they are.
The 3 inspectors I have spoken with in the last few weeks say they can't legally seek them out (Unbelievable!!!!), they have to be reported first. This fact, that somehow is not public information?, makes it is our own fault they are getting away with it.
It is time the inspectors stopped nit-picking us and started investigating them, instead. The playing field needs to be leveled.
I fail to see what about stealing ads/handbooks or photos is illegal. It is certainly lacking in integrity and is rather unprofessional, but illegal? In my province illegal means caring for more than six children not including one's own for private, and six children including one's own for licensed. I don't really care what others are doing as long as they are not putting children at risk. I have enough on my own plate to worry about policing others.
cheerfuldom 12:49 PM 09-26-2012
I have no problem with anyone reporting ILLEGAL daycare providers. This should be done for the safety of the children. I understand it is frustrating for someone to copy your contract and other items (this has happened to me before) but I would not try to get someone in trouble for that reason.
rhymia1 12:52 PM 09-26-2012
I also would not turn anyone in because they "copied" me. I'd be reluctant to turn anyone in I thought was providing care illegally (having more kids than allowed) because I don't know the situation. My neighbor who has four of her own kids was turned in once.
Originally Posted by rhymia1:
I also would not turn anyone in because they "copied" me. I'd be reluctant to turn anyone in I thought was providing care illegally (having more kids than allowed) because I don't know the situation. My neighbor who has four of her own kids was turned in once.
Yes, I was turned in once for caring for seven children instead of six. The person that turned me in didn't realize that unlicensed in my area can care for six PLUS their own.
Nothing came of it, and they complimented me on running such a together day home, but it was still irritating none the less.
cheerfuldom 01:01 PM 09-26-2012
Originally Posted by rhymia1:
I also would not turn anyone in because they "copied" me. I'd be reluctant to turn anyone in I thought was providing care illegally (having more kids than allowed) because I don't know the situation. My neighbor who has four of her own kids was turned in once.
yes i agree. This would only be if I knew for a fact that someone was over on numbers (or otherwise putting kids in danger). I had one mom that was turned in because she was running close to 20, with two employees and no license! gah! in that case, yeah it was obvious that she was so illegal.
JenNJ 01:15 PM 09-26-2012
I turned someone in for plagiarism. Plagiarism IS illegal. It IS stealing. That is my work, my thoughts, my philosophy. She used my words to benefit financially.
I turned her in online and to the local CCR agency. She was running an illegal setup with 15 kids and 2 providers. In my state it is 5 kids plus your own. That's it. She was illegal and I am a mandated reporter. I knew she ran it illegally and those kids were in danger in the eyes of the state. If I didn't report it, I would be just as liable.
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
I turned someone in for plagiarism. Plagiarism IS illegal. It IS stealing. That is my work, my thoughts, my philosophy. She used my words to benefit financially.
I turned her in online and to the local CCR agency. She was running an illegal setup with 15 kids and 2 providers. In my state it is 5 kids plus your own. That's it. She was illegal and I am a mandated reporter. I knew she ran it illegally and those kids were in danger in the eyes of the state. If I didn't report it, I would be just as liable.
What I put in bold would not concern me one bit. If they are that unethical, it will bite them in the butt without my interference. To me that is a control tactic to try to keep the playing field fair. I could care less about fair. My program and how I conduct business speaks for itself and someone with so little integrity could never compare long term. The last two children that came to me were from people that conducted business like that and here they are. I don't care if someone benefits from me financially really. I benefit more from my work than anyone else ever could.
Sounds as if you turned her in because you felt she copied you. The end result was that she happened to be someone that was over limits, so now you are using that to justify the fact that you acted on feeling threatened, angry, and vengeful.
I realize what I have said sounds kind of harsh, and that is not my intent nor is it my intent to offend. I may be wrong and if so I apologize in advance. It may be something to consider though.
daycare 01:38 PM 09-26-2012
it does make me mad when I see it, but I don't do anything about it
I see ads all of the time on craigs list and they are not licensed and charging A lot less, which is illegal here in CA if you are caring for more than one family.
I get upset, because I work hard, very hard and I love what I do. BUT, in the end I have no clue what this person is doing or going through and I just leave things alone....
JenNJ 01:47 PM 09-26-2012
I turned her in online because that is my right. My intellectual property is copyrighted. End of story.
When I contacted her to ask her nicely to remove my work, she told me to f___k off. So yeah it pissed me off. I did a little web searching, found out she was over her limit and turned her in. I don't need an excuse because it is my LEGAL OBLIGATION to turn her in in my state.
Everyone should.protect their intellectual property. The laws are there for these reasons. I didn't do it to level the playing field. I did it because I don't want my work or philosophy to be in any way connected to someone else's business. It can easily look as if I copied her, so it needs to be removed.
By the way, I have a long wait list and don't need clients. No need to level the playing field as my program and home are enough of a sell for me.
I would not be turning them in for copying my ad, I simply worded the OP poorly. I was upset when I typed that because an illegal provider did copy original artwork and business strategy statement of one of my friends who worked really hard on those. This particular illegal provider also currently has 11 kids in care (We can have 6 legally).
In my state you are illegal if you care for more than two children for pay, related or not makes no difference. I turn them in for keeping kids illegally, period. My program has not had an opening in over three years, my wait list is very healthy, I am well known in my community, that is not the problem. I am an older provider on my way slowly out of the industry.
The problem is that the most recent local class of 30 sweet, hard working young women, who just completed the process (120+ hours of training classes, fees, inspections, setup etc) are not receiving calls because these illegal providers can charge less. It is heartbreaking to watch. It effects their marriages, too.
Illegal Providers can charge less because they do not have the up front costs associated with training, resources, healthy meal requirements, curriculum and materials we do. They also are not inspected or held to any health standard which could leave children in danger.
Parents often are not even aware there is a difference. Here, sadly, they out number us 10/1.