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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Ratios & Capacity With And Without An Assistant
blandino 11:31 PM 12-11-2013
In OK, a small in-home license allows you 7 children with 1 adult.

A large in-home license allows you 12 children with 2 adults.

The more I think about it, the more I question that rule. Why does an extra adult only allow 5 more kids. IMHO it should double the capacity and allow 7 more children, or at least allow 6 more.

It makes it financially troublesome, because to pay an assistant you only have the income of 5 additional children. So if you use that to pay an assistant, it leaves a minimal amount of profit.

I am interested to see what everyone else's capacities look like with and without an assistant...
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TwinKristi 11:49 PM 12-11-2013
In CA a small family daycare can have 8 with 1 adult, 2 being infants under 24mos. If you have a large family daycare with an owner and asst you can have 16, 4 being under 24mos. So literally you can double your numbers.

Edited- I guess you can only have 14... My bad!
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Rachel 01:33 AM 12-12-2013
I don't live in the states, but I am allowed only 5, and 2 can be under 7 months (or I need an assistant 3 hours a day). I can have a 6th on a day when I get an extra because someone else closed (not more than 8 days in a row I think), and a 7th only if someone who closed has twins and I am the backup for both.
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snbauser 03:33 AM 12-12-2013
Here in NC it depends on where you live. Some small daycares are allowed 5 non-school aged and 3 school aged without an assistant while others are only allowed 5 total without an assistant. Adding an assistant you can have up to 12 kids.
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Annalee 04:04 AM 12-12-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
In OK, a small in-home license allows you 7 children with 1 adult.

A large in-home license allows you 12 children with 2 adults.

The more I think about it, the more I question that rule. Why does an extra adult only allow 5 more kids. IMHO it should double the capacity and allow 7 more children, or at least allow 6 more.

It makes it financially troublesome, because to pay an assistant you only have the income of 5 additional children. So if you use that to pay an assistant, it leaves a minimal amount of profit.

I am interested to see what everyone else's capacities look like with and without an assistant...
True; my assistant and I do a 50/50 thing with the exception of the food check and it works but we have been together for the entire twenty plus years....if she decides to retire, I will go back to 7...BTW...she is my mom and I think we make a great team! Would not work with anyone else for that length of time.
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SunnyDay 04:08 AM 12-12-2013
In MI, a family home can have 6 children with 1 provider, a group home can have 12 children with 2 providers. (There are ratios of how old the children can be, as well).

My house is not tiny, but I can't imagine having more than 12. I have actually only ever made it up to 11, and that was a lot to manage.
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CedarCreek 06:24 AM 12-12-2013
Here in Texas with my registered status, an assistant wouldn't allow me to take on more kids. In a maximum capacity scenario, I'm allowed 12. That's 6 over 18 months and 6 SA kids.

If I wanted more, I'd have to get licensed.
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SSWonders 06:34 AM 12-12-2013
In Mass we can have 6 with one provider - 3 under the age of two with at lest one 15 months and walking. We can have 8 with one provider if 2 are sa. Our large family day care is 10 with 2 providers - 6 can be under the age of two with at least 3 being over 15 months. Large family day care with three or more providers is still limited to 10, but 6 of them can be under 15 months and the others have to be over 15 months. Yikes. I can't image that scenario even with three care givers.
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craftymissbeth 06:36 AM 12-12-2013
In Kansas a family provider can have 10 but a group provider can have 12. Yeah, I'm not paying an assistant just to have 2 extra children.
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kelsey's kids 08:42 AM 12-12-2013
Idaho a family home can have 5 and a group can have 12 but you have to have over head sprinkler system. All of that is with one provider depending on ages. It is all based on a point system. Each provider is allowed 12 points. Each age is a different point under 2 =2 points, 2Y=1.5 points, 3-4y=1 point, 5 and up is .5 points.
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jenboo 08:59 AM 12-12-2013
In Nevada a family childcare can have up to 6 children and 3 before/after school kids with one adult. (you can have 4 kids without a license). No more than 4 under 2yrs and of those 4, no more than 2 under 1yr.

A group home allows 7-12 children with 2 adults. Not sure on the number of before and after school kids and not sure if the infant numbers apply.

You also have to meet the sq footage requirements.

ETA: I called my surveyor yesterday to make sure my information was accurate and its not. A GROUP HOME allows 7-12 children with 1 adult but the city has to approve it and they usually don't. Then you have to have a special inspection with fire and you have to install those overhead fire sprinklers which can cost a couple grand.
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KIDZRMYBIZ 09:06 AM 12-12-2013
In NE, you can have 8 mixed age (3 infants, one being 12mos+), plus 2 SA, for a total of 10, all by yourself.

Add an assistant, and you can have 12. Period. That makes no sense to me.

So unless a person just can't handle it alone, they are really shooting themselves in the financial foot to be a Home II!
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melilley 09:08 AM 12-12-2013
I'm in MI and have the same ratio's as Sunny, but I also can have a capacity of 12 even though I'm licensed (registered) for 6.
Only 4 can be under 30 mo. and 2 of the 4 under 18 mo.

I can only have up to 6 non related children and have to count my own under the age of 7, but I have a capacity of 12 and can take over my 6 if....the children are over the age of 7 and are related.

It's confusing, I know. We actually had a "class" on capacity vs. ratio at our required orientation.
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VTMom 09:28 AM 12-12-2013
In Vermont, registered home daycares can have 6 children (with 2 under the age of 2), plus 4 school age kids. Our own children over the age of 2 do not count in our ratios.

With an assistant: "Up to twelve children in care provided that at least six have been to kindergarten or graded school and a second caregiver is present and on duty when the number of children exceeds six. Preschoolers who reside in the residence of the Registrant are included in the twelve. No more than two children under two years of age may be in care. School age children residing in the residence of the Registrant are not counted."
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Laurel 09:32 AM 12-12-2013
Originally Posted by blandino:
In OK, a small in-home license allows you 7 children with 1 adult.

A large in-home license allows you 12 children with 2 adults.

The more I think about it, the more I question that rule. Why does an extra adult only allow 5 more kids. IMHO it should double the capacity and allow 7 more children, or at least allow 6 more.

It makes it financially troublesome, because to pay an assistant you only have the income of 5 additional children. So if you use that to pay an assistant, it leaves a minimal amount of profit.

I am interested to see what everyone else's capacities look like with and without an assistant...
In Florida, it is different by county.

In our county we are required to be licensed.

In reality we can watch 6 by ourself and 12 with another person (lg. family childcare). However, all cities in our county decide whether or not they will even allow a large family childcare in their city. They are required by state law to allow a regular one. No one has ever tried for a large one in my city. The neighboring city had some grandfathered in but won't allow any more. So it depends....

I said 'in reality' because by myself I can take 10 put they put limits on how many of each age I can have. So if I take 10 no more than 5 can be 5 years old and under with the other 5 being school aged. It pays us to take six full timers rather than 5 of each. We'd have to sacrifice one full timer in order to take 10. That's dumb.

Then some counties don't even have to be licensed from what I hear.

Laurel
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spinnymarie 07:08 PM 12-12-2013
In IL with the family license you can only have 8 kids - with or without an assistant. If you get the larger 'group' license you can have 12 with an assistant, so same issue as you.
My sister and I want to do this together, but it would actually make us more money to do it separately.
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Maria2013 10:39 AM 12-13-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
I'm in MI and have the same ratio's as Sunny, but I also can have a capacity of 12 even though I'm licensed (registered) for 6.
Only 4 can be under 30 mo. and 2 of the 4 under 18 mo.

I can only have up to 6 non related children and have to count my own under the age of 7, but I have a capacity of 12 and can take over my 6 if....the children are over the age of 7 and are related.

It's confusing, I know. We actually had a "class" on capacity vs. ratio at our required orientation.
what?? can you give me a quick lesson?
I thought we couldn't have more kids than we're licensed for
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melilley 10:58 AM 12-13-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
what?? can you give me a quick lesson?
I thought we couldn't have more kids than we're licensed for
I know, it's weird. If you look at rule R400.1908 and rule R 400.1910, it kind of explains it.
Basically it says any children under the age of 7, related or unrelated have to be counted in ratio. You can care for any children related to you who are over the age of 7 and not have to count them, but they have to be related. My licensing consultant actually had us do an exercise about this.
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Meeko 03:41 PM 12-13-2013
Can have 4 unlicensed

Can have 8 licensed with one provider (as long as the home has the required square footage) No more than 2 kids under 2 years old.

Can have 16 licensed with 2 providers (as long as the home has the required square footage) No more than 4 kids under age 2.
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Maria2013 03:49 PM 12-13-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
I know, it's weird. If you look at rule R400.1908 and rule R 400.1910, it kind of explains it.
Basically it says any children under the age of 7, related or unrelated have to be counted in ratio. You can care for any children related to you who are over the age of 7 and not have to count them, but they have to be related. My licensing consultant actually had us do an exercise about this.
I don't count my 3 kids cause they're over 7yr...but if I did count them then I would say I'm licensed for six but have capacity of 9 I guess
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daycare 06:13 PM 12-13-2013
here in cali we can leave our children with our asst.

we can have 8 kids on a small license, 2 can be under two and two have to be school age children.

on a large license we can have 4 under 2, and 8 preschool age and 2 must be school age for a total of 14 kids. we must have 2 adults present at all times

They make it almost impossible to grow your business and make a profit. I am able to do it, but I don't really make much more money at all. BUT I do enjoy working with other adults.

Look further into it and see if there are age restrictions.
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MCC 07:43 PM 12-13-2013
I'm in Virginia, and I really like the way we have it here.

Unlicensed, you can have 5, with the exception of your own. 4 of them can be under 2.

Licensed, you can have up to 12 with a special permit from the county, but the basic license is for 7, both with the exception of your own. Children are pointed.

0-15 months is 4 points
16-23 months is 3 points
24m-4 years is 2 points
4 and up is 1

Each provider can have a total of 16 points to her self, two providers, 32 points, and so on.

So technically I could have 12 infants, as long as that is all I took, and I had 2 full time assistants.
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TwinKristi 08:35 PM 12-13-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
I'm in Virginia, and I really like the way we have it here.

Unlicensed, you can have 5, with the exception of your own. 4 of them can be under 2.

Licensed, you can have up to 12 with a special permit from the county, but the basic license is for 7, both with the exception of your own. Children are pointed.

0-15 months is 4 points
16-23 months is 3 points
24m-4 years is 2 points
4 and up is 1

Each provider can have a total of 16 points to her self, two providers, 32 points, and so on.

So technically I could have 12 infants, as long as that is all I took, and I had 2 full time assistants.

Wow! So like a 4:1 ratio which is what most states limit infants to but yours allow multiple people. I can have only 4 infants, 3 under 2yrs and 3 over 2yrs or like Play Care said, 2 infants, 2 school aged and 4 in between 2yrs and school aged totalling 8.
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Maria2013 02:19 AM 12-14-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
I'm in Virginia, and I really like the way we have it here.

Unlicensed, you can have 5, with the exception of your own. 4 of them can be under 2.

Licensed, you can have up to 12 with a special permit from the county, but the basic license is for 7, both with the exception of your own. Children are pointed.

0-15 months is 4 points
16-23 months is 3 points
24m-4 years is 2 points
4 and up is 1

Each provider can have a total of 16 points to her self, two providers, 32 points, and so on.

So technically I could have 12 infants, as long as that is all I took, and I had 2 full time assistants.
I wish I could have 5 unlicensed, I'd be dropping this #$%# piece of paper so fast
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Babyluver2 09:57 AM 12-14-2013
CO

You can have:

Unlicensed: 1 family at a time, no # of kids specified

Licensed (FCC):
Up to 6 children, 2 under 2 + 2 additional before/after school (total of 8). This ratio includes your own children under age 12.

You can do group care 12 children, still 2 under 2 but need an assistant.

You can apply for conditional licenses. I had a 3 under 2 license; condition was I had twins and one baby of a sibling already in care.

You cannot be dually licensed for foster care/ child care at the same time even if you are under the ratios.

Anything over 12 children is considered "commercial" and you'd have to have it separate from your home.
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Maria2013 12:34 PM 12-14-2013
Originally Posted by Babyluver2:
You can apply for conditional licenses. I had a 3 under 2 license; condition was I had twins and one baby of a sibling already in care.
I wonder if that was true in my state too if they would allow me to have 7 kids instead of 6 or if taking the twins meant I had to drop one other kid
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Cradle2crayons 01:24 PM 12-14-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
I wish I could have 5 unlicensed, I'd be dropping this #$%# piece of paper so fast
Unlicensed here we can have five also. NOT counting our own children, regardless of our kids age.
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Maria2013 03:34 PM 12-14-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Unlicensed here we can have five also. NOT counting our own children, regardless of our kids age.
oh you so lucky! I'm jealous
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Cradle2crayons 04:16 PM 12-14-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
oh you so lucky! I'm jealous
Lol it would be better but rates here stink.
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kelsey's kids 08:43 PM 12-14-2013
Does anybody else have to have a sprinkler system?
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Starburst 09:10 PM 12-14-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
In CA a small family daycare can have 8 with 1 adult, 2 being infants under 24mos. If you have a large family daycare with an owner and asst you can have 16, 4 being under 24mos. So literally you can double your numbers.

Edited- I guess you can only have 14... My bad!
And those maxes can also only be reached if 2 of those children of the 8 are school aged (around 6 years) and at least 2 of the 14 must also school aged, which also can cut into financial issues because some people only want to take under 5 and since school age children would only need care on school vacations/minimum days and for about 1-4 hours after school they are usually part time (unless you offer home schooling for school age; which could be difficult depending on local laws), also your children count when they are there if they are under the age of 10. And (if your renting your home) while your landlord cannot stop you from having a small daycare they can stop you from:
1) With a small license, not allow your full total of 8 children (which means you can only have 6 total)
2) Expanding to a large family child care license
http://www.childcarelaw.org/docs/Q%2...ies%202009.pdf

My family wants to move to Oregon and I like the rules there better because:
1) With a registered daycare (similar to small family) you can have a total of 10 kids; if 4 of them are school age
2) With a certified family (similar to large) you can possibly have up to 16 if 4 are school aged but you have to show a plan on how younger and older kids will be separated for most of the day and have an inspection.
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