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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Licensing Rules: Where Does Your State Fall?
drseuss 07:57 AM 04-10-2014
In reading a few of the discussions on this board, it is clear that licensing rules vary a lot across the country.
I am curious to know how other providers feel that their state licensing regulations fall, relatively, on a scale from loose to stringent. Are there states that are known for loose or stringent regulations?
My state (WI) seems to be more stringent, but I'm not sure where we fall in the grand scheme of things. In one of the discussions here, a few weeks ago, someone had mentioned that the federal government is trying to phase out family child care, and the more I think about it, the more I tend to believe it. I would not be surprised to find out that was the plan, at least. By driving all the licensed providers clinically insane with red tape they will achieve the goal. Some of the things they ask for, I'm not sure how they can even ask with a straight face. A bird flew over the patio and pooped on it! Non-compliance statement and plan of action needed ASAP!
Just a little sarcasm there...
I am a big rule follower. I could rattle off the statutes on any topic you asked me to. But I do feel a lot of frustration, because I am so busy following all the rules to the letter, that I don't feel like I get to spend as much time doing what I really want to do with the children. Just so much micromanaging to do. I miss the days when we could dot the i and cross the t once instead of three times just to be sure. It would be nice to have an assistant, but financially it is just not feasible. I might as well not work at all.
Do any of you happen to have a daily/weekly/monthly checklist-type system that you use to streamline your days to ensure you are covering all of the rules?
I am curious to know how other providers feel that their state licensing regulations fall, relatively, on a scale from loose to stringent. Are there states that are known for loose or stringent regulations?
My state (WI) seems to be more stringent, but I'm not sure where we fall in the grand scheme of things. In one of the discussions here, a few weeks ago, someone had mentioned that the federal government is trying to phase out family child care, and the more I think about it, the more I tend to believe it. I would not be surprised to find out that was the plan, at least. By driving all the licensed providers clinically insane with red tape they will achieve the goal. Some of the things they ask for, I'm not sure how they can even ask with a straight face. A bird flew over the patio and pooped on it! Non-compliance statement and plan of action needed ASAP!
Just a little sarcasm there...I am a big rule follower. I could rattle off the statutes on any topic you asked me to. But I do feel a lot of frustration, because I am so busy following all the rules to the letter, that I don't feel like I get to spend as much time doing what I really want to do with the children. Just so much micromanaging to do. I miss the days when we could dot the i and cross the t once instead of three times just to be sure. It would be nice to have an assistant, but financially it is just not feasible. I might as well not work at all.
Do any of you happen to have a daily/weekly/monthly checklist-type system that you use to streamline your days to ensure you are covering all of the rules?
Blackcat31 08:03 AM 04-10-2014
Are you looking for this type of info?
Ranking of State Standards and Oversight of Small Family Child Care Homes
"Child Care AwareŽ of America assessed state policies for small family child care homes, where up to six children are cared for in the home of the provider for compensation.
The maximum number of points a state could receive is 150.
Sixteen states scored zero.
Of the states that scored points, the average score was 69, which equates to 46 percent - a failing grade in any classroom.
Family child care in the United States is characterized by weak state inspection standards, incomplete background checks, weak training requirements, weak early learning standards and weak basic health and safety standards."
Here is the link so you can read the full report yourself.
There is also a complete state ranking so you can see where each state falls. There is also an individual page for each state listing the areas they scored high in and the areas that are in need of repair or better assessment.
http://www.naccrra.org/about-child-c...ild-care-homes
This is a subject that interests me greatly so any other info you are in need of, just let me know...I might already have it collected and saved.
HTH
Ranking of State Standards and Oversight of Small Family Child Care Homes
"Child Care AwareŽ of America assessed state policies for small family child care homes, where up to six children are cared for in the home of the provider for compensation.
The maximum number of points a state could receive is 150.
Sixteen states scored zero.
Of the states that scored points, the average score was 69, which equates to 46 percent - a failing grade in any classroom.
Family child care in the United States is characterized by weak state inspection standards, incomplete background checks, weak training requirements, weak early learning standards and weak basic health and safety standards."
Here is the link so you can read the full report yourself.
There is also a complete state ranking so you can see where each state falls. There is also an individual page for each state listing the areas they scored high in and the areas that are in need of repair or better assessment.
http://www.naccrra.org/about-child-c...ild-care-homes
This is a subject that interests me greatly so any other info you are in need of, just let me know...I might already have it collected and saved.
HTH
drseuss 08:08 AM 04-10-2014
Wow, that is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! Thank you!
Blackcat31 08:14 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
Wow, that is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! Thank you!
You are welcome! Wow, that is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! Thank you!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
Annalee 09:25 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
Thanks BC for the website with the info you listed in previous post. I have viewed much documentation of FCC but not this. In my state the violations are not listed yet, but providers received word they plan to be in the near future. The problem I see with the whole STATE system is inconsistencies between program evaluators along with other organization like CCR&R, QRIS due to inconsistencies. Many providers absolutely DO NOT know what is expected from them. I noticed on the site you listed for my state there should be materials from 8 domains of learning for children.....THIS IS NOT HAPPENING HERE so who is responsible? This is just one listed item but there are other requirements on there that licensing nor anyone else touches. It depends on what side of the bed they got up on...if they like the provider or not.....if they want to take the trouble to write-them-up. It is frustrating! Another shame is, many providers just go underground and keep the same amount of kids I do...not taxes, not bs license, etc. The SYSTEM is MESSED UP to say it nicely!!!!!You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
Blackcat31 10:00 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Thanks BC for the website with the info you listed in previous post. I have viewed much documentation of FCC but not this. In my state the violations are not listed yet, but providers received word they plan to be in the near future. The problem I see with the whole STATE system is inconsistencies between program evaluators along with other organization like CCR&R, QRIS due to inconsistencies. Many providers absolutely DO NOT know what is expected from them. I noticed on the site you listed for my state there should be materials from 8 domains of learning for children.....THIS IS NOT HAPPENING HERE so who is responsible? This is just one listed item but there are other requirements on there that licensing nor anyone else touches. It depends on what side of the bed they got up on...if they like the provider or not.....if they want to take the trouble to write-them-up. It is frustrating! Another shame is, many providers just go underground and keep the same amount of kids I do...not taxes, not bs license, etc. The SYSTEM is MESSED UP to say it nicely!!!!!
Yes, there really needs to be a better system of checks and balances.Thanks BC for the website with the info you listed in previous post. I have viewed much documentation of FCC but not this. In my state the violations are not listed yet, but providers received word they plan to be in the near future. The problem I see with the whole STATE system is inconsistencies between program evaluators along with other organization like CCR&R, QRIS due to inconsistencies. Many providers absolutely DO NOT know what is expected from them. I noticed on the site you listed for my state there should be materials from 8 domains of learning for children.....THIS IS NOT HAPPENING HERE so who is responsible? This is just one listed item but there are other requirements on there that licensing nor anyone else touches. It depends on what side of the bed they got up on...if they like the provider or not.....if they want to take the trouble to write-them-up. It is frustrating! Another shame is, many providers just go underground and keep the same amount of kids I do...not taxes, not bs license, etc. The SYSTEM is MESSED UP to say it nicely!!!!!
Heidi 10:10 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
so...another example of why I hate "quality improvement initiatives" which, to my knowledge CHILDCARE AWARE pushed in the first place. They don't enforce the regulations already in place nearly enough, but add MORE "suggestions" instead. I just DO NOT GET IT! You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
Annalee 10:12 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
so...another example of why I hate "quality improvement initiatives" which, to my knowledge CHILDCARE AWARE pushed in the first place. They don't enforce the regulations already in place nearly enough, but add MORE "suggestions" instead. I just DO NOT GET IT!
so...another example of why I hate "quality improvement initiatives" which, to my knowledge CHILDCARE AWARE pushed in the first place. They don't enforce the regulations already in place nearly enough, but add MORE "suggestions" instead. I just DO NOT GET IT!
AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!!!!!!
Heidi 10:14 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Thanks BC for the website with the info you listed in previous post. I have viewed much documentation of FCC but not this. In my state the violations are not listed yet, but providers received word they plan to be in the near future. The problem I see with the whole STATE system is inconsistencies between program evaluators along with other organization like CCR&R, QRIS due to inconsistencies. Many providers absolutely DO NOT know what is expected from them. I noticed on the site you listed for my state there should be materials from 8 domains of learning for children.....THIS IS NOT HAPPENING HERE so who is responsible? This is just one listed item but there are other requirements on there that licensing nor anyone else touches. It depends on what side of the bed they got up on...if they like the provider or not.....if they want to take the trouble to write-them-up. It is frustrating! Another shame is, many providers just go underground and keep the same amount of kids I do...not taxes, not bs license, etc. The SYSTEM is MESSED UP to say it nicely!!!!!
In WI, it's probably more consistent than most. In fact, the licensers have been told to make NO exceptions, ever. They really can't look the other way, even for minor issues taken care of in their presence. For instance, if an outlet plug is out, but laying right there (maybe provider has school agers who forget). Even if the provider notices it and fixes it right away, the licenser must cite. Thanks BC for the website with the info you listed in previous post. I have viewed much documentation of FCC but not this. In my state the violations are not listed yet, but providers received word they plan to be in the near future. The problem I see with the whole STATE system is inconsistencies between program evaluators along with other organization like CCR&R, QRIS due to inconsistencies. Many providers absolutely DO NOT know what is expected from them. I noticed on the site you listed for my state there should be materials from 8 domains of learning for children.....THIS IS NOT HAPPENING HERE so who is responsible? This is just one listed item but there are other requirements on there that licensing nor anyone else touches. It depends on what side of the bed they got up on...if they like the provider or not.....if they want to take the trouble to write-them-up. It is frustrating! Another shame is, many providers just go underground and keep the same amount of kids I do...not taxes, not bs license, etc. The SYSTEM is MESSED UP to say it nicely!!!!!
Honestly, I don't care that much, because our state's website lists the citation, but also the details and the provider's correction plan. So, at least if parents look, they can see how minor (or not) the violation is.
Annalee 10:17 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
In WI, it's probably more consistent than most. In fact, the licensers have been told to make NO exceptions, ever. They really can't look the other way, even for minor issues taken care of in their presence. For instance, if an outlet plug is out, but laying right there (maybe provider has school agers who forget). Even if the provider notices it and fixes it right away, the licenser must cite.
Honestly, I don't care that much, because our state's website lists the citation, but also the details and the provider's correction plan. So, at least if parents look, they can see how minor (or not) the violation is.
Licensing was told "no exceptions" here too but it still seems they pick and choose....... In WI, it's probably more consistent than most. In fact, the licensers have been told to make NO exceptions, ever. They really can't look the other way, even for minor issues taken care of in their presence. For instance, if an outlet plug is out, but laying right there (maybe provider has school agers who forget). Even if the provider notices it and fixes it right away, the licenser must cite.
Honestly, I don't care that much, because our state's website lists the citation, but also the details and the provider's correction plan. So, at least if parents look, they can see how minor (or not) the violation is.
NoMoreJuice! 10:44 AM 04-10-2014
I've owned a licensed daycare in two different counties in KS, and I've found that not only do regulations vary greatly from state to state, but the state regulations' interpretations by the surveyors vary greatly from county to county! I don't think any of KS regs are unnecessary, and I don't find them to be unreasonably hard to follow. They're pretty tough on not spreading germs: washing hands when kids arrive in the morning, before/after every meal, after every toileting/diaper changing, after being outside, and after handling pets... so about 20 times a day. But the surveyors really make the difference. I used to have one that was a NAZI and I swear made up her own rules...I would have to call Topeka and clarify them with her supervisor it got so ridiculous. But here in KC area, I LOVE my surveyors, and I know they are on my team.
Anyway, to sum up: I think KS has great regs that are for the safety and well being of the kids, and I don't think I'd change any of them. If you'd like to see a copy: http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/day...care_regs.html
Anyway, to sum up: I think KS has great regs that are for the safety and well being of the kids, and I don't think I'd change any of them. If you'd like to see a copy: http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/day...care_regs.html
lucky 10:54 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
I'm in your state as well and I currently have 4 providers in my not very large city on conditional licenses because of capacity issues. If you read the conditional orders all of them have been reminded repeatedly for this. One of them was caring for 17 children alone at one point. I'm glad they are finally citing them but why has it been allowed to go on for so long first!You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
drseuss 10:59 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
In WI, it's probably more consistent than most. In fact, the licensers have been told to make NO exceptions, ever. They really can't look the other way, even for minor issues taken care of in their presence. For instance, if an outlet plug is out, but laying right there (maybe provider has school agers who forget). Even if the provider notices it and fixes it right away, the licenser must cite.
Honestly, I don't care that much, because our state's website lists the citation, but also the details and the provider's correction plan. So, at least if parents look, they can see how minor (or not) the violation is.
I think you must be correct that the inspectors here are not to make any exceptions. I do feel that they should be able to take things into account and use some common sense judgement in certain situations, though. Here is an example of something that I was cited for that I thought to be totally unnecessary. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about when I say 'they are going to drive the providers insane'. One of my dck's enrollment forms was cited as incomplete, because I did not have father's specific place of employment listed. DCD is a logger, so the form said self-employed logger at XYZ logz. As far as a location, he does not have anything specific to list. He is in the woods, and could be about anywhere at any given time. His cell phone number is listed, but the licensor wanted a specific physical place of employment. What the heck? You want GPS coordinates? Now I have a public record of non-compliance because of that. Those little things just bug me I guess. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I realize. I just don't like having a non-compliance for something like that. In WI, it's probably more consistent than most. In fact, the licensers have been told to make NO exceptions, ever. They really can't look the other way, even for minor issues taken care of in their presence. For instance, if an outlet plug is out, but laying right there (maybe provider has school agers who forget). Even if the provider notices it and fixes it right away, the licenser must cite.
Honestly, I don't care that much, because our state's website lists the citation, but also the details and the provider's correction plan. So, at least if parents look, they can see how minor (or not) the violation is.
Heidi 11:02 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
I think you must be correct that the inspectors here are not to make any exceptions. I do feel that they should be able to take things into account and use some common sense judgement in certain situations, though. Here is an example of something that I was cited for that I thought to be totally unnecessary. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about when I say 'they are going to drive the providers insane'. One of my dck's enrollment forms was cited as incomplete, because I did not have father's specific place of employment listed. DCD is a logger, so the form said self-employed logger at XYZ logz. As far as a location, he does not have anything specific to list. He is in the woods, and could be about anywhere at any given time. His cell phone number is listed, but the licensor wanted a specific physical place of employment. What the heck? You want GPS coordinates? Now I have a public record of non-compliance because of that. Those little things just bug me I guess. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I realize. I just don't like having a non-compliance for something like that.
That's freakin' hilarious! I think you must be correct that the inspectors here are not to make any exceptions. I do feel that they should be able to take things into account and use some common sense judgement in certain situations, though. Here is an example of something that I was cited for that I thought to be totally unnecessary. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about when I say 'they are going to drive the providers insane'. One of my dck's enrollment forms was cited as incomplete, because I did not have father's specific place of employment listed. DCD is a logger, so the form said self-employed logger at XYZ logz. As far as a location, he does not have anything specific to list. He is in the woods, and could be about anywhere at any given time. His cell phone number is listed, but the licensor wanted a specific physical place of employment. What the heck? You want GPS coordinates? Now I have a public record of non-compliance because of that. Those little things just bug me I guess. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I realize. I just don't like having a non-compliance for something like that.
Seriously, I guess the only thing he could put was the headquarters address?
llpa 11:13 AM 04-10-2014
PA scored 0 I am so not surprised I am a group home but rent a space for my dc. My licensor wrote me up because I didn't have a copy of my rules and regs in both my dc rooms ( even tho they are connected by an OPEN archway), but has never asked even ONE question about my program, how my schedule reflects my day, what I even have planned for the day etc. Nothing about the dcks at all ever!!! When she is here, it's an hour max.
I am so not surprised I am a group home but rent a space for my dc. My licensor wrote me up because I didn't have a copy of my rules and regs in both my dc rooms ( even tho they are connected by an OPEN archway), but has never asked even ONE question about my program, how my schedule reflects my day, what I even have planned for the day etc. Nothing about the dcks at all ever!!! When she is here, it's an hour max.
craftymissbeth 11:17 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by NoMoreJuice!:
I've owned a licensed daycare in two different counties in KS, and I've found that not only do regulations vary greatly from state to state, but the state regulations' interpretations by the surveyors vary greatly from county to county! I don't think any of KS regs are unnecessary, and I don't find them to be unreasonably hard to follow. They're pretty tough on not spreading germs: washing hands when kids arrive in the morning, before/after every meal, after every toileting/diaper changing, after being outside, and after handling pets... so about 20 times a day. But the surveyors really make the difference. I used to have one that was a NAZI and I swear made up her own rules...I would have to call Topeka and clarify them with her supervisor it got so ridiculous. But here in KC area, I LOVE my surveyors, and I know they are on my team.
Anyway, to sum up: I think KS has great regs that are for the safety and well being of the kids, and I don't think I'd change any of them. If you'd like to see a copy: http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/day...care_regs.html
I've owned a licensed daycare in two different counties in KS, and I've found that not only do regulations vary greatly from state to state, but the state regulations' interpretations by the surveyors vary greatly from county to county! I don't think any of KS regs are unnecessary, and I don't find them to be unreasonably hard to follow. They're pretty tough on not spreading germs: washing hands when kids arrive in the morning, before/after every meal, after every toileting/diaper changing, after being outside, and after handling pets... so about 20 times a day. But the surveyors really make the difference. I used to have one that was a NAZI and I swear made up her own rules...I would have to call Topeka and clarify them with her supervisor it got so ridiculous. But here in KC area, I LOVE my surveyors, and I know they are on my team.
Anyway, to sum up: I think KS has great regs that are for the safety and well being of the kids, and I don't think I'd change any of them. If you'd like to see a copy: http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/day...care_regs.html
Just the difference in the two surveyors in my county is significant.
mema 11:19 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
Isn't it $200 for safe sleep? Not that it makes that much difference. There was a provider in my area that received a $200 fine for not having a sheet on a pnp even tho there was no baby in care that day-only preschoolers. Another got one for taking off the sheet and putting it in the wash and not replacing instantly (baby got sick-was taking care of her and getting her out the door when licensing showed for annual visit).You are welcome!
My state (MN) sends out reports for ALL licensed facilities that receive correction orders or licensing violations and/or negative action orders.
I read daily the number of providers who violate the same rule over and over and there is often little or no recourse. ALL of which makes me sick.
For example, this week alone I've read about 14 different providers/centers that were cited (and some fined) for violation of safe sleep practices. The biggest fine is $100 REGARDLESS it seems of whether it's the 1st or 15th time the provider has been cited before.
It makes me mad to see that so many states have failed in this capacity as well as in meeting the requirements they themselves put in place.
I think there definitely needs to be lots of things changed. Hearing things that happen on one side of the state vs the other and are completely different. Licensors view the rules different. Even within the county. Ours don't always agree, interpret or enforce the same.
spinnymarie 11:20 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
In one of the discussions here, a few weeks ago, someone had mentioned that the federal government is trying to phase out family child care, and the more I think about it, the more I tend to believe it. I would not be surprised to find out that was the plan, at least. By driving all the licensed providers clinically insane with red tape they will achieve the goal.
If that's the case, then I think the country in general is trying to phase out all of education In one of the discussions here, a few weeks ago, someone had mentioned that the federal government is trying to phase out family child care, and the more I think about it, the more I tend to believe it. I would not be surprised to find out that was the plan, at least. By driving all the licensed providers clinically insane with red tape they will achieve the goal.
I've found that the amount of red tape for HDC is no different than the red tape I had to endure as a public school teacher - it's just slightly different things and there is no one else helping me out!
Annalee 11:21 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by llpa:
PA scored 0 I am so not surprised I am a group home but rent a space for my dc. My licensor wrote me up because I didn't have a copy of my rules and regs in both my dc rooms ( even tho they are connected by an OPEN archway), but has never asked even ONE question about my program, how my schedule reflects my day, what I even have planned for the day etc. Nothing about the dcks at all ever!!! When she is here, it's an hour max.
I hear ya! funny thing is providers can make anything on paper look good for licensing, but if licensing would check the things you mentioned about actual program set-up for the children, we would NOT have needed this UNREALISTIC QRIS SYSTEM! PA scored 0
I am so not surprised I am a group home but rent a space for my dc. My licensor wrote me up because I didn't have a copy of my rules and regs in both my dc rooms ( even tho they are connected by an OPEN archway), but has never asked even ONE question about my program, how my schedule reflects my day, what I even have planned for the day etc. Nothing about the dcks at all ever!!! When she is here, it's an hour max.
llpa 11:24 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
I hear ya! funny thing is providers can make anything on paper look good for licensing, but if licensing would check the things you mentioned about actual program set-up for the children, we would NOT have needed this UNREALISTIC QRIS SYSTEM!
I hear ya! funny thing is providers can make anything on paper look good for licensing, but if licensing would check the things you mentioned about actual program set-up for the children, we would NOT have needed this UNREALISTIC QRIS SYSTEM!
Heidi 11:45 AM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
I hear ya! funny thing is providers can make anything on paper look good for licensing, but if licensing would check the things you mentioned about actual program set-up for the children, we would NOT have needed this UNREALISTIC QRIS SYSTEM!
I hear ya! funny thing is providers can make anything on paper look good for licensing, but if licensing would check the things you mentioned about actual program set-up for the children, we would NOT have needed this UNREALISTIC QRIS SYSTEM!
Honestly, for even a quarter of that money, they could have hired a lot more licensers, right?
Oh, and if they need more money, FINE people who are running illegally or have multiple serious non-compliances. Not $100 or $200 dollars for safe-sleep, though. I'd make that one a big fine!
Unregistered 12:04 PM 04-10-2014
I'm not to certain what's up with replying to this thread it shows I'm unregistered to post even though when I read only I am signed in. Plus no posting aids available. ?????
"Oh, and if they need more money, FINE people who are running illegally or have multiple serious non-compliances. Not $100 or $200 dollars for safe-sleep, though. I'd make that one a big fine!"
I wish they'd shut them down!
I'm in MI and read on BC's report that we would have been in the top five but because they don't inspect pre opening we got a zero. We are inspected within 90 days and before the license is issued.
"Oh, and if they need more money, FINE people who are running illegally or have multiple serious non-compliances. Not $100 or $200 dollars for safe-sleep, though. I'd make that one a big fine!"
I wish they'd shut them down!
I'm in MI and read on BC's report that we would have been in the top five but because they don't inspect pre opening we got a zero. We are inspected within 90 days and before the license is issued.
Blackcat31 12:19 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by mema:
Isn't it $200 for safe sleep? Not that it makes that much difference. There was a provider in my area that received a $200 fine for not having a sheet on a pnp even tho there was no baby in care that day-only preschoolers. Another got one for taking off the sheet and putting it in the wash and not replacing instantly (baby got sick-was taking care of her and getting her out the door when licensing showed for annual visit).
I think there definitely needs to be lots of things changed. Hearing things that happen on one side of the state vs the other and are completely different. Licensors view the rules different. Even within the county. Ours don't always agree, interpret or enforce the same.
Yes, you are right... I see I wrote $100... My bad. Isn't it $200 for safe sleep? Not that it makes that much difference. There was a provider in my area that received a $200 fine for not having a sheet on a pnp even tho there was no baby in care that day-only preschoolers. Another got one for taking off the sheet and putting it in the wash and not replacing instantly (baby got sick-was taking care of her and getting her out the door when licensing showed for annual visit).
I think there definitely needs to be lots of things changed. Hearing things that happen on one side of the state vs the other and are completely different. Licensors view the rules different. Even within the county. Ours don't always agree, interpret or enforce the same.
It is $200 but the fine does not increase for repeated occurrences... so what is the point??I've read a couple reports where the provider has so many violations that the report is several pages but the provider is still allowed to operate.
I think there needs to be a better system of consequences for repeat offenders....you know so there really aren't so many repeat offenders.. I don't understand why that is rocket science for some???
Blackcat31 12:22 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
I think you must be correct that the inspectors here are not to make any exceptions. I do feel that they should be able to take things into account and use some common sense judgement in certain situations, though. Here is an example of something that I was cited for that I thought to be totally unnecessary. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about when I say 'they are going to drive the providers insane'. One of my dck's enrollment forms was cited as incomplete, because I did not have father's specific place of employment listed. DCD is a logger, so the form said self-employed logger at XYZ logz. As far as a location, he does not have anything specific to list. He is in the woods, and could be about anywhere at any given time. His cell phone number is listed, but the licensor wanted a specific physical place of employment. What the heck? You want GPS coordinates? Now I have a public record of non-compliance because of that. Those little things just bug me I guess. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I realize. I just don't like having a non-compliance for something like that.
OMG!! Are you serious???? I think you must be correct that the inspectors here are not to make any exceptions. I do feel that they should be able to take things into account and use some common sense judgement in certain situations, though. Here is an example of something that I was cited for that I thought to be totally unnecessary. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about when I say 'they are going to drive the providers insane'. One of my dck's enrollment forms was cited as incomplete, because I did not have father's specific place of employment listed. DCD is a logger, so the form said self-employed logger at XYZ logz. As far as a location, he does not have anything specific to list. He is in the woods, and could be about anywhere at any given time. His cell phone number is listed, but the licensor wanted a specific physical place of employment. What the heck? You want GPS coordinates? Now I have a public record of non-compliance because of that. Those little things just bug me I guess. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I realize. I just don't like having a non-compliance for something like that.
That is absolutely ridiculous and absolutely asinine!!
Next time, you just write down the VIN number of his logging truck... Good grief! That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about a provider being cited.
there are NOT enough eye rolls to convey my true feelings.... *sigh*
Heidi 12:24 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, you are right... I see I wrote $100... My bad. It is $200 but the fine does not increase for repeated occurrences... so what is the point??
I've read a couple reports where the provider has so many violations that the report is several pages but the provider is still allowed to operate.
I think there needs to be a better system of consequences for repeat offenders....you know so there really aren't so many repeat offenders.. I don't understand why that is rocket science for some???
Wow...I was reading some of the suggestions, and they seem a bit over the top. I know other states (CA?) require licensing for more than one unrelated family, but seriously! How on earth would they ever enforce THAT when they can't enforce illegals with 12 or 15? Yes, you are right... I see I wrote $100... My bad.
It is $200 but the fine does not increase for repeated occurrences... so what is the point??I've read a couple reports where the provider has so many violations that the report is several pages but the provider is still allowed to operate.
I think there needs to be a better system of consequences for repeat offenders....you know so there really aren't so many repeat offenders.. I don't understand why that is rocket science for some???
Again...make the regulations a bit more realistic, and ENFORCE them! I wonder why it's rocket science for the state?
drseuss 12:32 PM 04-10-2014
Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Like I said, I'm a rule follower and my licensor always tells me how easy I make her job. Are they supposed to find something to cite providers on when they can't really find anything? KWIM?
Another example: my mom stopped over on her way home to drop eggs off for me. Licensor was here conducting a visit. Mom left her car running, popped in and set the eggs down, her dog ran in and out of the house, and she was gone. That day I got cited because I do not have my mom's dog's rabies vaccination on file. Online, the violation reads that provider does not have rabies vaccination on file for Fido. COME ON!! No pun intended, but throw me a bone.
FTR, I do like my licensor. She is professional and has always been very positive, encouraging, and complementary toward me. These little things though...
Another example: my mom stopped over on her way home to drop eggs off for me. Licensor was here conducting a visit. Mom left her car running, popped in and set the eggs down, her dog ran in and out of the house, and she was gone. That day I got cited because I do not have my mom's dog's rabies vaccination on file. Online, the violation reads that provider does not have rabies vaccination on file for Fido. COME ON!! No pun intended, but throw me a bone.
FTR, I do like my licensor. She is professional and has always been very positive, encouraging, and complementary toward me. These little things though...
drseuss 12:37 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
OMG!! Are you serious????
That is absolutely ridiculous and absolutely asinine!!
Next time, you just write down the VIN number of his logging truck... Good grief! That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about a provider being cited.
there are NOT enough eye rolls to convey my true feelings.... *sigh*
Or I could have DCD get a microchip in his rear.OMG!! Are you serious????
That is absolutely ridiculous and absolutely asinine!!
Next time, you just write down the VIN number of his logging truck... Good grief! That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read about a provider being cited.
there are NOT enough eye rolls to convey my true feelings.... *sigh*
Blackcat31 12:39 PM 04-10-2014
Wonder if that would be tax deductible? 
TwinKristi 12:43 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Wow...I was reading some of the suggestions, and they seem a bit over the top. I know other states (CA?) require licensing for more than one unrelated family, but seriously! How on earth would they ever enforce THAT when they can't enforce illegals with 12 or 15?
Again...make the regulations a bit more realistic, and ENFORCE them! I wonder why it's rocket science for the state?
This is a very silly thing and I agree, how can they possibly enforce this? I know several SAHMs who watch kids, more than 1, and think nothing of posting ads on Facebook, CL, etc. One of my DCMs left to be a SAHM and now watches other people's kids, under the table at that, and asks me for advice! LOL Wow...I was reading some of the suggestions, and they seem a bit over the top. I know other states (CA?) require licensing for more than one unrelated family, but seriously! How on earth would they ever enforce THAT when they can't enforce illegals with 12 or 15?
Again...make the regulations a bit more realistic, and ENFORCE them! I wonder why it's rocket science for the state?
I tried to get her to do it legit and join the food program and that's when she told me she didn't want there to be any "paper trails" for her. But people always getting away with this. I actually have a suspicion that a provider nearby doesn't actually have her license or something, because she knows she's supposed to advertise WITH her number by law, but never does. She's had quite a few infractions over the years (serious things like a DWI accident, leaving medications/cleaners accessible to children and minor things like not having updated records, not having earthquake drills logged, etc.) but hasn't even been inspected in almost 5yrs, since Oct 2009 I believe.
blandino 12:53 PM 04-10-2014
No surprise to me that my state, OK, got a 120. The only negatives were for provider training hours and no fingerprinting. The fingerprinting has been remedied as of last Nov.
I know this opinion will resonate with you all. This high number doesn't equal quality childcare in OK. OKDHS follows the letter of the law without paying attention to the spirit of the law. I know legally the have to be precise, but all these rules and regs have not created a idillic childcare environment in OK.
I know this opinion will resonate with you all. This high number doesn't equal quality childcare in OK. OKDHS follows the letter of the law without paying attention to the spirit of the law. I know legally the have to be precise, but all these rules and regs have not created a idillic childcare environment in OK.
mema 01:15 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, you are right... I see I wrote $100... My bad. It is $200 but the fine does not increase for repeated occurrences... so what is the point??
I've read a couple reports where the provider has so many violations that the report is several pages but the provider is still allowed to operate.
I think there needs to be a better system of consequences for repeat offenders....you know so there really aren't so many repeat offenders.. I don't understand why that is rocket science for some???
Oh good (well not good, but I thought maybe there was another stinkin inconsistencyYes, you are right... I see I wrote $100... My bad.
It is $200 but the fine does not increase for repeated occurrences... so what is the point??I've read a couple reports where the provider has so many violations that the report is several pages but the provider is still allowed to operate.
I think there needs to be a better system of consequences for repeat offenders....you know so there really aren't so many repeat offenders.. I don't understand why that is rocket science for some???
). I totally agree there needs to be a better system. I don't think we will ever see it tho. FCC will be obselete by the point they get it together. There is a lady here that is under temp immediate suspension. This happened in Dec 2012. It says under appeal. Not sure what happened, but really curious
. I have heard that she has since moved to a different town and is doing care again. I could not find her on DHS, so I am assuming unlicensed, but not sure if it is legal.There are definitely too many with too many violations and usually they are the same stinkin one everytime. I guess not everyone learns from their mistakes
Blackcat31 01:25 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by mema:
Oh good (well not good, but I thought maybe there was another stinkin inconsistency). I totally agree there needs to be a better system. I don't think we will ever see it tho. FCC will be obselete by the point they get it together.
There is a lady here that is under temp immediate suspension. This happened in Dec 2012. It says under appeal. Not sure what happened, but really curious. I have heard that she has since moved to a different town and is doing care again. I could not find her on DHS, so I am assuming unlicensed, but not sure if it is legal.
There are definitely too many with too many violations and usually they are the same stinkin one everytime. I guess not everyone learns from their mistakes
Yeah it specifically says "You are also prohibited from operating as a legally unlicensed child care provider unless and until such time as this order is reversed upon appeal. " when you get an immediate suspension of your license. Oh good (well not good, but I thought maybe there was another stinkin inconsistency
). I totally agree there needs to be a better system. I don't think we will ever see it tho. FCC will be obselete by the point they get it together. There is a lady here that is under temp immediate suspension. This happened in Dec 2012. It says under appeal. Not sure what happened, but really curious
. I have heard that she has since moved to a different town and is doing care again. I could not find her on DHS, so I am assuming unlicensed, but not sure if it is legal.There are definitely too many with too many violations and usually they are the same stinkin one everytime. I guess not everyone learns from their mistakes
Is she still listed on the DHS website? Usually you can click her name and see the violations and what they say.
I signed up for e-mail notices from DHS so every day I get atleast 2-4 e-mails listing the violation in every county in the state. It's sad really.
If parents actually looked at those lists, I think some of those ladies would be out of business.
Mom2TLE 01:31 PM 04-10-2014
Idaho got a 0. I'm not surprised you guys always talk about your pages of regs. Idaho has 1page front and back. When they first started qris we were ranked clear at the bottom like 49th I believe. A few laws have changed since then, we were able to be certified and have up to 12 kids. Now it is 6 @ 7 you have to be licensed and a background check for 3 or more. My inspector is also the health dept food/ restaurant inspector. She comes by once a year for those who are accepting state paid and 2 yrs for licensing. When they were trying to get the laws changed 5 years ago some of our lawmaker suggested moms not work and stay home with their children. Change is slow but it is changing. Here,'s an article about it.
http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2011/...ay-care-rules/
http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2011/...ay-care-rules/
mema 01:39 PM 04-10-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yeah it specifically says "You are also prohibited from operating as a legally unlicensed child care provider unless and until such time as this order is reversed upon appeal. " when you get an immediate suspension of your license.
Is she still listed on the DHS website? Usually you can click her name and see the violations and what they say.
I signed up for e-mail notices from DHS so every day I get atleast 2-4 e-mails listing the violation in every county in the state. It's sad really. If parents actually looked at those lists, I think some of those ladies would be out of business.
She is still on the website (for our town, not the one she moved too). It says it is being investigated by community services and the police department. Because it is under investigation, it is unable to be released in the letter. If you look at her FB page (I know, stalkerYeah it specifically says "You are also prohibited from operating as a legally unlicensed child care provider unless and until such time as this order is reversed upon appeal. " when you get an immediate suspension of your license.
Is she still listed on the DHS website? Usually you can click her name and see the violations and what they say.
I signed up for e-mail notices from DHS so every day I get atleast 2-4 e-mails listing the violation in every county in the state. It's sad really.
If parents actually looked at those lists, I think some of those ladies would be out of business.), it says she is a preschooler teacher at such and such daycare. I know a family that went to hers before she was closed down, but no longer talk with them. When it happened, the family called me looking for care, but didn't know what all happened.I get the DHS emails also. Sometimes I read thru them and sometimes it bugs me too much.
Crazy8 02:59 PM 04-10-2014
well personally I feel NJ is very lenient, doesn't over-regulate much at all like some of the things I read here. But looking at that link we automatically score a zero because we are allowed to be unlicensed.
LadyK8 07:38 AM 04-11-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Are you looking for this type of info?
Ranking of State Standards and Oversight of Small Family Child Care Homes
"Child Care AwareŽ of America assessed state policies for small family child care homes, where up to six children are cared for in the home of the provider for compensation.
The maximum number of points a state could receive is 150.
Sixteen states scored zero.
Of the states that scored points, the average score was 69, which equates to 46 percent - a failing grade in any classroom.
Family child care in the United States is characterized by weak state inspection standards, incomplete background checks, weak training requirements, weak early learning standards and weak basic health and safety standards."
Here is the link so you can read the full report yourself.
There is also a complete state ranking so you can see where each state falls. There is also an individual page for each state listing the areas they scored high in and the areas that are in need of repair or better assessment.
http://www.naccrra.org/about-child-c...ild-care-homes
This is a subject that interests me greatly so any other info you are in need of, just let me know...I might already have it collected and saved.
HTH
Nice! My state scored really well. Thanks.Are you looking for this type of info?
Ranking of State Standards and Oversight of Small Family Child Care Homes
"Child Care AwareŽ of America assessed state policies for small family child care homes, where up to six children are cared for in the home of the provider for compensation.
The maximum number of points a state could receive is 150.
Sixteen states scored zero.
Of the states that scored points, the average score was 69, which equates to 46 percent - a failing grade in any classroom.
Family child care in the United States is characterized by weak state inspection standards, incomplete background checks, weak training requirements, weak early learning standards and weak basic health and safety standards."
Here is the link so you can read the full report yourself.
There is also a complete state ranking so you can see where each state falls. There is also an individual page for each state listing the areas they scored high in and the areas that are in need of repair or better assessment.
http://www.naccrra.org/about-child-c...ild-care-homes
This is a subject that interests me greatly so any other info you are in need of, just let me know...I might already have it collected and saved.
HTH
melilley 12:40 PM 04-11-2014
My state scored a big fat 0. It says because you can get your license before they do an inspection (for family homes). I always thought that that was strange.
I do think that compared to other states, MI is very lax in their regulations. Here, only 10% of fcc's get inspected before the 3 year renewal date for your registration/license and they do it by doing a lotto! And I've heard that it takes forever for any licensing consultant to investigate anything as far as fcc's go (mil used to work in a horrible fcc and called on the lady at least 3 times before they came out), but for centers, they are there right away.
Thanks for posting the link bc! Very interesting.
I do think that compared to other states, MI is very lax in their regulations. Here, only 10% of fcc's get inspected before the 3 year renewal date for your registration/license and they do it by doing a lotto! And I've heard that it takes forever for any licensing consultant to investigate anything as far as fcc's go (mil used to work in a horrible fcc and called on the lady at least 3 times before they came out), but for centers, they are there right away.
Thanks for posting the link bc! Very interesting.
melilley 12:44 PM 04-11-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Wow...I was reading some of the suggestions, and they seem a bit over the top. I know other states (CA?) require licensing for more than one unrelated family, but seriously! How on earth would they ever enforce THAT when they can't enforce illegals with 12 or 15?
Again...make the regulations a bit more realistic, and ENFORCE them! I wonder why it's rocket science for the state?
That's how it is here, you have to have a license/registration if you care for one or more unrelated children in your home, yet there are tons of ads just on cl for sahm's and grammys that advertise care in their homes. It's unbelievable, but unless my state (and others) have funding to investigate illegal dc's, they are always going to be around. Plus, I don't think we have any type of fine or consequence if you are caught operating illegally (I could be wrong) so why not?!Wow...I was reading some of the suggestions, and they seem a bit over the top. I know other states (CA?) require licensing for more than one unrelated family, but seriously! How on earth would they ever enforce THAT when they can't enforce illegals with 12 or 15?
Again...make the regulations a bit more realistic, and ENFORCE them! I wonder why it's rocket science for the state?
Man, it would be so easy to operate illegally and not have to abide by any regulations, without getting caught....I just couldn't do it though.