Ok, let me say first I know this is a "control issue" on dkg part. She is 2 1/2 and smart as can be. She totally understands what to do and when to do it. She just won't. She is the middle child.

Mom had a baby 3 months ago. Gma decided to start potty training her while at their home after baby was born. She did ok, but not great. (not a good time to try in my opinion, too many changes at once). Mom & I tried to keep it up, but it was just too much for Mom with 3 kids. One baby, the 2 1/2y/o and 5 year old starting kindergarten. So she stopped. They decided to try again this week.

She WILL NOT tell you she needs to go. The only way to keep her dry is to haul her to the potty every hour. I just can't do that with the other kids. I look up and suddenly 2 hours have past and she is wet or dirty. She goes and hides to do #2. So she knows full well what she is doing.

Any tips on getting her to tell us? Last time I potty trained was 26 years ago LOL. I don't remember it being this hard. Btw, they didn't have this hard of a time with the 5 y/o. This one is VERY hard headed.

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This is what I have written in my contract- I will assist with potty training , this needs to be started at home and child making good progress, and totally understand the concept of it, before I will assist with it here. Pullups/and/or diapers are required at all times until potty trained(this means goes on their own, without assistance and reminders from myself, and be totally accident free for quite sometime

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That's the thing, she is in pull ups and does understand the concept of it. In the first round, she would tell us some of the time. Now she won't tell us at all. Parents are trying hard too, not just me.

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We use a kitchen timer. When the bell goes off...it's time to go! We just keep resetting it for every hour! Seems to work good and it helps me keep track of time.

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Good idea! But, any hints on getting her to tell us? This is a VERY verbal child, ahead for her age.

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I think telling you she has to go comes in time. Just getting her to go every time the bell goes off though is a good start. She will eventually catch on. On a few occassions, I have "bribed" a kid who is especially non-cooperative.....we use mini MM's or Gummie Bears. 1 for trying and 3 for going. Trying means sitting atleast 5-10 minutes. Sometimes, they will try ALL day just for the treat, but I usually catch on and reign them back in as long as they are progressing. The "bribing" phase is usually only allowed to go on for 3-5 days before I realize it is or isn't working. Then I move on to 5 mini MM's or 5 gummies at the END of the day for staying dry. Eventually, it does become something they start doing on their own. Just be careful not to let it become a power struggle. Once they are dry for a full week then there are no more treats. I have people who have suggested using stickers and such, but personally my kids are motivated by candy. Maybe it is because I have had a lot of boys lately and they are sooooo stubborn! LOL!

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I agree that it just comes in time...A child is ready to potty train when THEY are ready to potty train..My daughter was 4 1'2 when she was finally trained...but I have a dck that is 2 1/2 and is fully trained. I have a 3 yr old that wont tell me but will go on her own, I have a 2 yr old ( mom has been training since 12 months ahh yeah...) and she will go when you sit her on it but she wont tell you when she has to go.

It all depends on the child...they will tell you when they are ready to tell you..not when grandma, mom, you or anyone else is ready.

Anything else just bribe..If you tell me when you have to go potty you will get an M&M etc...

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I have also done the Mm thing as well. Maybe try if she goes on her own, and tells you she has to go, reward her with a mm

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She will go just about everytime you set her on the potty. We have tried the MM's and stickers. But nothing seems to get her to be willing to tell us. It is sort of like, you guys want me to tell you, so I won't.

After 3 weeks last time of taking her all the time, she still wouldn't tell anyone. She just got MM's for going in the potty every time we took her. To me, that seems like "we" are the ones trained and not her.

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Maybe ONLY reward her if she tells you she has to go. Say something like, "You are such a big girl ***X! I am glad you are using the potty....next time if you tell me you have to go, you will get an M&M. If I have to bring you, there will be no treat." If she is verbal enough then she will understand exactly what you mean.
Possibly we are rewarding for the wrong thing...I think the goal here is the telling you part not the using the toilet part. So reward for meeting the goal instead. Good Luck...I am always so surprised at how well kids can make us crazy over the simple things! LOL!

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Good idea on rewarding only on her telling me. Think I'll try that. May have hit on something that might help just now. Last week I bought a "hair care" set, with a battery operated hair dryer. She LOVES it. I put it up on a shelf and she has to ask for it (so she doesn't run the batteries all day long). Well, she just ask for it. I told no, when she told me she need to go potty and went, She could play with it. We will see how it goes!


Thanks for all the replies and ideas so far. Keep em coming, I'm open to anything that will get her to tell me!

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Personally, I would ease off. She CLEARLY does not want to do this yet, and that's OKAY!!!

I would NEVER, in a million years, bribe a child to use the toilet.

Put her in diapers, give her a few weeks, and then try again. Don't push it, or force it on her. Then if she does what she needs to do, great. If not, back to diapers.

You are right, it's a control issue. This is one you cannot win. She is experiencing change in her life, she needs to adjust. Using the toilet is not as important as the child feeling secure and being allowed to still be "a baby" in the sense that she has a new sibling....she may be feeling left out, or like she's being forced to be a "big-girl" when developmentally, she's still a toddler.

I have trained many., many children, (most recently 3 at the same time) and typically my kids are trained within 2-3 days with no accidents, because I wait until they are completely ready, developmentally, to be successful from the beginning.

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Mom was wanting to start her when she was 9 months pregnant, b/c she was always telling us when she was wet, dirty and telling us she needed a diaper. She decided to wait b/c she was so large and tired.

I wouldn't have started her when Gma did either. I really thought this time was a little too soon. But, since they have, I have to try and find something that works when I have her. I have 3 days a week, 10 hours each time while Mom and Dad work.

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Have her practice telling you she needs to go. Set the timer and when the timer goes off have her repeat after you "I have to go potty" and then take her to the potty. If you make having her tell you as part of the routine then she'll get used to it and eventually begin to tell you for real.

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Good Idea!

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I would simply tell Mom and Dad she is not ready and when she is with me, she will be in diapers. First, let me say, I realize that it isn't you that is pushing it on the child, it's grandma and parents, so PLEASE don't think this is directed at you:

One of my biggest pet peeves is people forcing potty training on a child who is not developmentally ready. If she were developmentally ready, she would be trained and this would be a non-issue.

The parents would be told that it isn't working, and that if they choose to insist that she be trained, then when she has CONSISTENTLY been telling them and then using the potty at home, for a minimum of two weeks, that is when I would start again here. I would not allow them to make me train their child. I know what is appropriate and I know when a child is ready, therefore, in my program, I decide when the time is right and when it will happen.

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4 1/2? i understand waiting until they're ready, but that's quite a long time to wait. i've had to change a 4 year old's diaper before (he was delayed, mom was delayed) and it was DISGUSTING! there's a difference in baby/toddler poop and 4/5 year old poop. that's grounds for adoption.

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Well the parents aren't forcing the issue. As a matter of fact Mom texted me from work today to see if I thought we should wait. (she works 12 hour shifts)

I told her I was trying the "withholding M&M's until she told me" today. This afternoon, she did tell me. I gave Mom the idea this afternoon. I told her I would continue to try if she wanted or wait.

Won't have her again till Friday. Will see them tomorrow at church and see want they want to do.

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So, when the child is trained and you stop giving her M&M's, and she decides to "take control" of the situation again by not telling you and wetting herself, are you going to start giving her M&M's again? Sorry, but that REALLY makes no sense. I cannot stand bribing a child to do what they SHOULD do when they are developmentally ready.

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Don't think it will be necessary. She is a VERY smart girl. I think once she is trained, she will stay trained. Not everyone agrees on how to raise or train children. All children develop at different stages. If her parents feel she is ready, I will support them in whatever way I can. Her parents are the only ones that it must make sense too.

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BTW, The "withholding the M&M's idea" came from this board.

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I know. Not by me though.

AND, I am sorry if sound like I am being rude to you. I really don't mean to. It's just a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Not just the candy/bribe thing. The techniques and attitudes that some portray when potty training irritate me too....so I am super "sensitive" when it comes to this subject.

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I hope you're right. That would be great! Smart though, could mean she is smart enough to manipulate the situation when it come's to getting her candy...........hopefully she won't.

I agree all children develop at different stages. WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree. But, she hasn't developed to the stage where she can consistently tell you every time she needs to use the potty, and that is my whole point.

I agree you should support the parents. Again, WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree....until it is clear that what they expect is not going to work. Then, the only person it needs to make sense to, is the child.

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What would you all do? We have a 2 1/2 yr old who is FULLY potty trained except when sleeping (like at nap time). She hasn't even had one single accident since she started wearing panties at daycare. We were so proud of her! She wore panties for maybe a week before parents started sending only diapers for her. NO PANTIES! So they're sending this potty trained 2 1/2 yr old in a clean diaper each morning, with a diaper bag full of diapers and no panties. About once or twice a week they'll send her a pair, but the next day it's back to diapers. If this girl can switch between diapers and panties back and forth like that and not have an accident and not be confused, you know she's fully completely potty trained! But when she wears a diaper (since that's all they send her), she potties in it. Doesn't bother to go potty. If asked if she needs to, she says no everytime. Right at first she would get upset at nap time when we'd get ready to put a diaper on her, now it's the complete opposite! She just doesn't want to take time out of her play to go potty when she's wearing a diaper, but if she has on panties she knows she has to.
So dcg is potty trained, but doesn't want to be, and the parents send her with only diapers, so that she doesn't have to. We've told the parents several times that she is potty trained, hasn't had ANY accidents and doesn't need a diaper anymore except nap, but they continue to ignore it, I guess. It's really frustrating because we have 4 others potty training. And have been for months. With that many potty breaks, and that many diaper changes, I get irritated when we could eliminate one of those, but the parents want to treat her like a baby still. Her parents were even the ones who told us to work with her and that she was potty trained at home. So it's not like we tried to do it before the parents wanted us to. It's like they've changed their mind. I'm not going to try rewarding her for going potty because she IS potty trained. How would you handle the parents sending only diapers for her? I am so sick of this potty training business and not getting anywhere, then we finally have one potty trained practically over night, but parents change their mind after she's trained!

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Three months ago, when Gma started the training the first time, sheDID tell us. Just not on a regular basis, but she did tell us, so she knows when she needs to go.

However, with a newborn in the house and the other two kids, it was just too much for the Mom and she chose to stop training.

She is not the type child to try and manipulate anyone, it just isn't her personality.

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I have two dcks that are exactly the same as your dcg. I've been taking them to go potty every hour for 8 months and the whole "eventually they'll get the idea" thing still hasn't kicked in yet. If I wait more than an hour, they will certainly be wet or pooped. They just won't say it. Ever. I love them though and their families too so I will keep on keeping on....

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first I think the ebook.. 3day training method is wonderful.. and as a provider I would get a copy of that and give it to the mother...
Second.... I would give the child a little more control... let them think its there idea.... So like I would say "Sue remember your wearing big girl panties, and you want to keep them dry, so make sure you tell me when you have to go to the potty"..... I used the 3 day method with my last and I was wondering why I didnt have this informationn with my other children... While my others took about 2 weeks to fully train.. this one is quick and simple...
thrid-- pull ups are a waste of money and time... they do nothing in the potty train but set them back.... She needs to be wearing panties.... and reminded to keep them dry and clean!! A couple of accidents and she will get it.

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i dunno - i don't typically like rewards, but for potty training - it WORKS. it's not like bribing them to do "the right thing" and it's not really bribing them at all if you give them candy after they go instead of saying, "if you potty, you'll get candy." i consider potty training a different planet all together when it comes to rewards. if you know about pavlov's experiment with the dogs - it works in much the same way. he didn't say, "when i ring the bell, you'll get food," but they learned after a very short time that when the bell was rang - they got food. i think the idea of the egg timer was a good one. when the timer goes off, it's potty time. after going potty, they get an M&M. over time, when the timer goes off, they'll go potty, but no M&M will be "needed." it's the behaviorist approach that is typically frowned upon, but using the potty is a situation where children do have to be trained, literally.

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Potty training should be quick, easy and painless. If the child isn't ready, why get upset? I agree, wait until the mother makes some progress first at home. Maybe because the child sees the baby in diapers and getting all the attention, this child wants the attention as well.

Just a thought.....

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we're not talking about getting upset with a 2.5 or even 3 year old (which in my opinion, MOST typically developing kids should be potty trained by 3). we're talking about a kid who is ready for KINDERGARTEN pooping turds in a diaper. they only make diapers so big for a reason. you know if a 5 year old (or 4.5 year old entering kindergarten) isn't potty trained, they will be in special ed classes? that is NOT normal.

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Great example! I don't look at it like bribing either. It is a motivator and motivators are completely different than bribes. Once the child gets motivated to behave in a specific manner then it becomes a habit and something they are capable of doing on their own...I don't see it as any different than giving stickers....it is the same concept....do something;earn a reward. Some kids are just motivated more by an M&M rather than a sticker. I also think it is an insult to a child's intelligence if they are not trained by age 3. Studies have proven over and over again that children are capable of controling their body functions by 3 years of age. It is developmental and some are ready before others but if we took the same approach we do with potty training to other things like say using a sippy or silverware until we felt the child signaled us as to his/her readiness, kids would be feeding themselves with their hands until who knows when....
Each generation of children sets the bar a little lower and a little lower. If we look back to the previous generations, the ages of normal potty training kids have gotten older and older. Why? In some European countries if children are not trained by 24 months they are put in special education classes for developmentally delayed children.
I have been using the M&M method for training kids since I trained my own 20 years ago and I have yet to have a child who has not had success...no regressing, no issues after they wear underwear and no longer receive the 'motivator'. There are lots of other reasons for children to want to stay trained once they are in undies. We have specific things that only children who wear underwear can do. Crayons for those in diapers and markers for those who are trained. Swim lessons for those who have undies and not for kids in diapers. I think it works...and I am going with what works!
I know some people will disagree but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions. We all need to do what works with us and the families we provide services for.
The mother of the litle boy who is being given a 'motivator' for using the toilet says she does not think it is a bribe.....she says a bribe is what she gets every Friday on payday. LOL! I happen to love my job so I don't look at it the same way as she does, but to each his own I guess.

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The definition of bribe:

bribe   /braɪb/ Show Spelled
[brahyb] Show IPA
noun, verb, bribed, brib·ing.
–noun
1. money or any other valuable consideration given or promised with a view to corrupting the behavior of a person, esp. in that person's performance as an athlete, public official, etc.: The motorist offered the arresting officer a bribe to let him go.
2. anything given or serving to persuade or induce: The children were given candy as a bribe to be good.

So, if you think it insults a child's intelligence if they are not trained by 3, do you not think it insults their intelligence to "bribe" them to do what they are perfectly capable of doing by age 3?

A bribe, whether related to a child or an adult, is offering someone a "treat" whether it is money or candy, to do something that you want them to do. Oh, and I don't do stickers either....I don't do rewards/bribes for anything. I set expectations and I expect the children to, if they are developmentally ready, to be able to do as asked. If they aren't developmentally ready, I don't ask them to do it.

Also, this "If we look back to the previous generations, the ages of normal potty training kids have gotten older and older. " May very well have to do with the fact that previous generations would SPANK their children if they soiled their pants. I'd rather a child be a little older, than enact physical punishment, for not being developmentally ready to train.

Sorry if I am taking this to far, but it REALLY irritates me. And, I realize it is my opinion, and everyone needs to do what works for them, but this is just one topic I am VERY serious about.

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No, I do not "bribe" them to do what they are capable of doing....I "bribe" them to become motivated to do what they are capable of doing.

I understand that everybody has their own opinions and I completely 100% respect that, I just use what works and at the end of a day when I am heading home after taking care of multiple children with a multitude of issues I look at the end game. Everyone went home safe, kids were happy, so and so used the toilet and all was good. Toilet training should be the responsibility of the parents and not the providers. I am willing to assist but we all know that when the kid spends 90% of their day with the child care provider, it becomes my responsibility. As a parent, I probably used a lot of different techniques and methods considering they were my children and I was home with them, but when I have 10 children in a day; we do what works. I know a provider who lives on the next block who actually REQUIRES her daycare families to take off 7-10 days and completely train their child when they become ready so that she does not have to have any role in it besides support when the child returns.....What a wonderful, but unrealistic expectation!

Long story short, I do see, hear and respect your opinion on the subject. Another great example on just how many differences there are out there in child cares and provider styles....which is why I am assuming we are all our own 'bosses' and families have the option of choosing to go where it works for them. If I ever have a family who does not want me to do things the way I do, then I will happily compromise as best I can. But for now, I am using the egg timer and the 'bribe'.

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Cool....I can respect that.

BTW, Thank you for not thinking I am trying to attack you when I voice my opinion.....as that is so often the case here

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motivate |ˈmōtəˌvāt|
verb [ trans. ]
provide (someone) with a motive for doing something : he was primarily motivated by the desire for profit.
• stimulate (someone's) interest in or enthusiasm for doing something : I'm going to motivate kids to study civics.

Given these definitions, I agree with PP who suggested that they were motivating rather than bribing. I use a positive reinforcement chart where the child gets a happy face to velcro on a chart for every step of the process. They get a hug at the end as well as a sticker if they succeed.

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No problem.....my husband says it is the one thing about me that drives him crazy...I always see everyones side. Besides, we were bantering about a topic not each other personally. I am the oldest of six kids so needless to say there was a lot of differing opinions in my house growing up. Plus I have a really thick skin! LOL! Everyone has right to their opinion and although I have to say, it is sometimes funny to read the posts where ppl are arguing back and forth, I do not see the point in that. We are basically all in this together! Live, learn and let live! Hope you have a great day!

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lol....I am the youngest of 6 kids!

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See...more common ground! LOL!

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