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Unknown 08:08 AM 06-17-2015
I keep seeing facebook post of women running unregistered daycare (which are illegal in this state). So I did not say anything to them and reported them.
Every time some one would say they were looking for a daycare, I would post my info and these ladies would post that they would do it. The parent would not respond to me but PM the others. So I got sick of it and copied all their info, reported them.

Then I got a call from some of their clients desperately searching for care because their daycare got shut down. I heard that they got big fines.

Now one of the ladies are back posting that they are looking to nanny.

People are feeling sorry for them, for breaking the LAW.
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Mom o Col 08:12 AM 06-17-2015
Is unregistered illegal where you are or illegal after you have a certain number of kids? Here in NY you are allowed to care for two kids without being licensed/registered.
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Heidi 08:21 AM 06-17-2015
Here is WI, one can care for up to 3 children under 7 without a license. People have 12-15, get away with it for years, and the same thing happens; people feel sorry for them when they get shut down (which is extremely rare).
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LysesKids 08:25 AM 06-17-2015
Here in TN you can legally have four before having to get licensed
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Rockgirl 08:33 AM 06-17-2015
Here, if you have even one unrelated child in care, you must be at least listed. Over 3 unrelated children requires registered or licensed.
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Thriftylady 08:38 AM 06-17-2015
The part that surprises me is that they actually did anything.
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KiddieCahoots 09:02 AM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
The part that surprises me is that they actually did anything.
Here you need a license for any unrelated child in your care.
My neighbor started an illegal daycare....right across the street from me. I informed licensing, nothing was done.
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Play Care 09:05 AM 06-17-2015
I'm going to assume here that the OP knows the law in her state and wasn't reporting willy nilly.
The fact that the OP's state actually DID something about it tells me she was right.
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Annalee 09:05 AM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
Here you need a license for any unrelated child in your care.
My neighbor started an illegal daycare....right across the street from me. I informed licensing, nothing was done.
This happens in my state as well.....frustrating!!.
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NightOwl 09:36 AM 06-17-2015
In Alabama, a license is required for any number of unrelated children.
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Unregistered 10:39 AM 06-17-2015
Hard to prove people are unrelated. I could say I am caring for my second cousins kids and my brothers stepkids ect..
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KiddieCahoots 11:16 AM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hard to prove people are unrelated. I could say I am caring for my second cousins kids and my brothers stepkids ect..
Not with the new site ancestry.com......jk....jk....
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Blackcat31 11:22 AM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hard to prove people are unrelated. I could say I am caring for my second cousins kids and my brothers stepkids ect..


My state defines family as immediate. (sister, niece, granddaughter)

NOT someone's second, twice removed only by marriage type situations....
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Heidi 11:31 AM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:


My state defines family as immediate. (sister, niece, granddaughter)

NOT someone's second, twice removed only by marriage type situations....
same here, and if they do investigate (occasionally), they do ask, and they ask for verification.
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Unknown 01:00 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'm going to assume here that the OP knows the law in her state and wasn't reporting willy nilly.
The fact that the OP's state actually DID something about it tells me she was right.
Thank you, I do know my state rules. Even one child is breaking the LAW. (which I don't find to be fair, but law is law and I went through the process to be legal and so can they. Until they do, they need to STOP stealing my and other day cares customer and cutting on home day cares.)

Guess it bugs me that pp take pity on her for getting caught, not telling her to "become legal".
Since it came out that she was caught, there has been less "ISO kids to watch" post.
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Unregistered 01:11 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unknown:
I keep seeing facebook post of women running unregistered daycare (which are illegal in this state). So I did not say anything to them and reported them.
Every time some one would say they were looking for a daycare, I would post my info and these ladies would post that they would do it. The parent would not respond to me but PM the others. So I got sick of it and copied all their info, reported them.

Then I got a call from some of their clients desperately searching for care because their daycare got shut down. I heard that they got big fines.

Now one of the ladies are back posting that they are looking to nanny.

People are feeling sorry for them, for breaking the LAW.

So..what you're really saying is you got jealous because the parents saw something they liked better, and you reported them because you have trouble getting clients. And you're pulling out the LAW card to cover the real motive.
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Thriftylady 01:18 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So..what you're really saying is you got jealous because the parents saw something they liked better, and you reported them because you have trouble getting clients. And you're pulling out the LAW card to cover the real motive.
I don't think that is fair. Those of us who operate legally (I am legally unlicensed but was licensed in another state before). We spend extra money making sure we follow all the laws and procedures. Then we get some people who want to cut corners at every turn, not doing things by the regulations and they undercut us because they are not doing what they should be doing. To do things the right way costs money. I for one get really irked when I see people on FB post they will do childcare for someone looking for pennies, because I know many of them are not doing things like many of us do. Feeding kids ramen noodles and putting them in front of a tv all day is NOT childcare.
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MarinaVanessa 03:04 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So..what you're really saying is you got jealous because the parents saw something they liked better, and you reported them because you have trouble getting clients. And you're pulling out the LAW card to cover the real motive.
No, she reported them because the law is the law. Everyone should follow the law. These ladies could very easily get licensed themselves and avoid the trouble they got themselves in. It amazes me that some parents want the "world" when it comes to daycare but are willing to sacrifice integrity and quality just to save a few dollars. Most often these illegally operating providers undercut themselves by offering extremely low prices and they either end up closing anyway because they can't afford to continue doing it or they have to cut corners somewhere (less activities, materials, lower quality meals etc). Often times parents don't even know what their regulations are and don't know that certain people need a license in order to operate, sometimes they don't care.

In any case, wrong is wrong no matter how you dice it.
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Leigh 03:51 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So..what you're really saying is you got jealous because the parents saw something they liked better, and you reported them because you have trouble getting clients. And you're pulling out the LAW card to cover the real motive.
In my state, we can watch up to 12 without registration, so there's not a lot to report on here, unless we report the few idiots who take 18-20 kids by themselves. Regardless of that number, though, someone who knowingly breaks the law to open a daycare likely isn't someone that should be watching kids. WHY would you break the law? Can't pass a background check? Unsafe environment? Planning on breaking other childcare regs? There is NO EXCUSE for someone to operate illegally. N.O.N.E.
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Unregistered 04:23 PM 06-17-2015
That's scary 12 is a lot, so much for the law. Ten, twelve for one person is too much imo licensed or not.

As for licensed and unlicensed, both can be good or bad, and that horse has been beaten on this forum.

I do agree it seems like it would be easier to just get licensed, but then again most don't care if someone watches a few kids.
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Thriftylady 05:40 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
That's scary 12 is a lot, so much for the law. Ten, twelve for one person is too much imo licensed or not.

As for licensed and unlicensed, both can be good or bad, and that horse has been beaten on this forum.

I do agree it seems like it would be easier to just get licensed, but then again most don't care if someone watches a few kids.
That is a big part of the reason I am unlicensed. I can have six without one, up to ten with one. I was licensed for ten in KS, but I always felt it was to much for me. I can't say it is to many for everyone, some people may be able to handle it but I can't and provide the quality I want to provide.
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Unknown 06:01 PM 06-17-2015
Thank you to all that defended me.
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Febby 06:15 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So..what you're really saying is you got jealous because the parents saw something they liked better, and you reported them because you have trouble getting clients. And you're pulling out the LAW card to cover the real motive.
Regardless of what the parents may or may not have liked better about the illegal provider, the law isn't optional. If you operate illegally, then you should realize that you could get caught.
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Leigh 06:17 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
That's scary 12 is a lot, so much for the law. Ten, twelve for one person is too much imo licensed or not.

As for licensed and unlicensed, both can be good or bad, and that horse has been beaten on this forum.

I do agree it seems like it would be easier to just get licensed, but then again most don't care if someone watches a few kids.
It seems like a lot before you do it, but it's actually a little easier than 6, IMO. They are a LOT easier to entertain, and they actually require much less from me. The only thing that makes it harder is diapers and meals.
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Thriftylady 06:47 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Leigh:
It seems like a lot before you do it, but it's actually a little easier than 6, IMO. They are a LOT easier to entertain, and they actually require much less from me. The only thing that makes it harder is diapers and meals.
I have always felt like less is better because my ages have always been so mixed. If they were all the same age it might be easier lol.
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Thriftylady 06:48 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by Unknown:
Thank you to all that defended me.
I have no issue with unlicensed providers, I am one.... As long as they are doing so legally. I will always defend someone on the right side of the law!
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unregistered 06:51 PM 06-17-2015
When people run illegal childcare, they most likely are not paying taxes, plus a portion are on welfare, not all of them, but some do this. Thus this people undercut the cost of a legal daycare.
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Thriftylady 06:54 PM 06-17-2015
Originally Posted by unregistered:
When people run illegal childcare, they most likely are not paying taxes, plus a portion are on welfare, not all of them, but some do this. Thus this people undercut the cost of a legal daycare.
I hadn't thought of it that way. But I can see how someone on welfare could use it to their advantage.
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Sugar Magnolia 03:21 AM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Leigh:
In my state, we can watch up to 12 without registration, so there's not a lot to report on here, unless we report the few idiots who take 18-20 kids by themselves. Regardless of that number, though, someone who knowingly breaks the law to open a daycare likely isn't someone that should be watching kids. WHY would you break the law? Can't pass a background check? Unsafe environment? Planning on breaking other childcare regs? There is NO EXCUSE for someone to operate illegally. N.O.N.E.
Yes yes yes yes to all of that. NO excuse for illegal!
Good job, OP!!!!!!
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Blackcat31 06:26 AM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
That's scary 12 is a lot, so much for the law. Ten, twelve for one person is too much imo licensed or not.

As for licensed and unlicensed, both can be good or bad, and that horse has been beaten on this forum.

I do agree it seems like it would be easier to just get licensed, but then again most don't care if someone watches a few kids.
I am licensed for 12. BY MYSELF.

My kids range in age from infant to age 5. None have actually attended Kindergarten.

Like someone else said, 12 is WAY easier than 6. I have had 10-12 kids by myself for over 2 decades without a ding on my record or reason to ever feel that I cannot manage 12 kids alone.

The key to anything is routine and consistency. I have clear rules, boundaries and expectations and my families all work WITH me not against me in guiding and disciplining their child(ren). ← That makes a huge difference too...

The days when I have less than 8 children are tough!
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LysesKids 06:38 AM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am licensed for 12. BY MYSELF.

My kids range in age from infant to age 5. None have actually attended Kindergarten.

Like someone else said, 12 is WAY easier than 6. I have had 10-12 kids by myself for over 2 decades without a ding on my record or reason to ever feel that I cannot manage 12 kids alone.

The key to anything is routine and consistency. I have clear rules, boundaries and expectations and my families all work WITH me not against me in guiding and disciplining their child(ren). ← That makes a huge difference too...

The days when I have less than 8 children are tough!
Seems I work the same way... when all 4 babies are here it runs smoother, one or two and I am bored out of my skull lol. They play well together now that they all crawl or walk. They like eating together too. It's like they want to do follow the leader all the time and routines are normal. I use to have 6 under 2.5 years in Indiana and always had 5 under 24 months in Arkansas... never had an issue
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momofboys 10:19 AM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I don't think that is fair. Those of us who operate legally (I am legally unlicensed but was licensed in another state before). We spend extra money making sure we follow all the laws and procedures. Then we get some people who want to cut corners at every turn, not doing things by the regulations and they undercut us because they are not doing what they should be doing. To do things the right way costs money. I for one get really irked when I see people on FB post they will do childcare for someone looking for pennies, because I know many of them are not doing things like many of us do. Feeding kids ramen noodles and putting them in front of a tv all day is NOT childcare.
I don't care that you are reporting or whether it's appropriate to do so (although when it's illegal it seems appropriate so I agree). I guess my issue is the assumption the other care is worse. How do you know they watch tv all day or eat ramen noodles? I'm sure you would be upset if someone said that about you. Unless you have been in the home how would you know?

Edited to add the following- in my state (OH) you are not required to be licensed & I have always provided care by the rules/paid taxes, etc.
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AuntTami 11:17 AM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I don't care that you are reporting or whether it's appropriate to do so (although when it's illegal it seems appropriate so I agree). I guess my issue is the assumption the other care is worse. How do you know they watch tv all day or eat ramen noodles? I'm sure you would be upset if someone said that about you. Unless you have been in the home how would you know?

Edited to add the following- in my state (OH) you are not required to be licensed & I have always provided care by the rules/paid taxes, etc.
I believe this assumption is being made based upon the rate that the "provider" is charging.

I am cheap for my area at $135/week and there are TONS of women offering care in my area for $75-$100/week. The maximum amount of children we are allowed without a license is 3. That's $300/week. $1200 a month.

Can you pay rent/mortgage, all of your utilities, plus the additional utilities used because of the extra bodies, and all of your other bills, and still afford to provide an excellent curriculum and healthy, well balanced meals, for not only your family but your daycare kids too on $1200 a month?

I can BARELY do it at $135 a week and I've only been able to make it work because my DH makes enough to mostly cover our monthly bills. There's just no way.
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Thriftylady 11:27 AM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I don't care that you are reporting or whether it's appropriate to do so (although when it's illegal it seems appropriate so I agree). I guess my issue is the assumption the other care is worse. How do you know they watch tv all day or eat ramen noodles? I'm sure you would be upset if someone said that about you. Unless you have been in the home how would you know?

Edited to add the following- in my state (OH) you are not required to be licensed & I have always provided care by the rules/paid taxes, etc.
I lost one of my little ones, a 12 month old to a SAHM that was charging $30 a week for full time care. It costs me at least that to feed the kids well and provide activities such as arts and crafts for them. On top of that the extra water, utilities, wear and tear, replacement of toys. Heck I can't take care of my own kids for $30 a week.
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Blackcat31 12:34 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by AuntTami:
I believe this assumption is being made based upon the rate that the "provider" is charging.

I am cheap for my area at $135/week and there are TONS of women offering care in my area for $75-$100/week. The maximum amount of children we are allowed without a license is 3. That's $300/week. $1200 a month.

Can you pay rent/mortgage, all of your utilities, plus the additional utilities used because of the extra bodies, and all of your other bills, and still afford to provide an excellent curriculum and healthy, well balanced meals, for not only your family but your daycare kids too on $1200 a month?

I can BARELY do it at $135 a week and I've only been able to make it work because my DH makes enough to mostly cover our monthly bills. There's just no way.
Assuming care is poor or low quality based on rate is as bad as assuming care is "less than" because a provider is unlicensed.

IMO, quality of care has nothing to do with rates or licensing.

I could take the 12 kids I have here daily at a rate of $25 per week and still provide the same level of care I do now.

I am an established provider that has the equipment and overhead already so I don't have many expenses.

My expenses do not dictate my rates or the quality of care I provide.

.....just sharing an alternate perspective.
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Thriftylady 12:38 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Assuming care is poor or low quality based on rate is as bad as assuming care is "less than" because a provider is unlicensed.

IMO, quality of care has nothing to do with rates or licensing.

I could take the 12 kids I have here daily at a rate of $25 per week and still provide the same level of care I do now.

I am an established provider that has the equipment and overhead already so I don't have many expenses.

My expenses do not dictate my rates or the quality of care I provide.

.....just sharing an alternate perspective.
I guess it depends. For me, they would affect the quality if I couldn't afford good foods, and such things. And although I could charge just bare minimum, I am sure at some point I would begin to feel overworked and underpaid and I am sure at some point that would affect the care even if I didn't want it to. I am doing this to make a living not just break even.
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Blackcat31 12:42 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I guess it depends. For me, they would affect the quality if I couldn't afford good foods, and such things. And although I could charge just bare minimum, I am sure at some point I would begin to feel overworked and underpaid and I am sure at some point that would affect the care even if I didn't want it to. I am doing this to make a living not just break even.
I agree there is a BIG difference between surviving and thriving but my point was it is unfair to judge a provider based on rates or whether or not she/he holds a license.
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Heidi 01:01 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I agree there is a BIG difference between surviving and thriving but my point was it is unfair to judge a provider based on rates or whether or not she/he holds a license.
True....

BUT...(sorry)....

We make a lot of our assumptions based on our experiences. I can tell you that my experience with "illegal" providers in our area has been pretty consistent.

-More children than one adult can handle, often-times and "assistant" who is actually their own home-schooled or off-for-the-summer preteen/teenager.
-Little or no real equipment, mostly garage sale stuff or their own kids old toys, generally in poor repair.
-No sense of routine, no consistency in daily schedule, no real guidelines for the kids
- A lot of TV on..either background noise or provider watching or kids parked
-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
-Provider has NO training in child development, guidance, CPR, Shaken Baby Syndrome
-No adult in the home has had a background check done. That doesn't guarantee anything, I know, but it does rule out some of the "rif-raf". We live in a small community, and presumably everyone knows who the rif-raf is, but not always. Worst cases are almost always the provider's boyfriends.

There are 5 illegal providers in my county that I know of. For each one of these people, 5/6 items above are true. One provider also doesn't take the children outside; EVER. She tells people it's so they don't mess up her yard I'm guessing she doesn't want anyone to know how many kiddos she's got there.
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Thriftylady 01:48 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Heidi:
True....

BUT...(sorry)....

We make a lot of our assumptions based on our experiences. I can tell you that my experience with "illegal" providers in our area has been pretty consistent.

-More children than one adult can handle, often-times and "assistant" who is actually their own home-schooled or off-for-the-summer preteen/teenager.
-Little or no real equipment, mostly garage sale stuff or their own kids old toys, generally in poor repair.
-No sense of routine, no consistency in daily schedule, no real guidelines for the kids
- A lot of TV on..either background noise or provider watching or kids parked
-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
-Provider has NO training in child development, guidance, CPR, Shaken Baby Syndrome
-No adult in the home has had a background check done. That doesn't guarantee anything, I know, but it does rule out some of the "rif-raf". We live in a small community, and presumably everyone knows who the rif-raf is, but not always. Worst cases are almost always the provider's boyfriends.

There are 5 illegal providers in my county that I know of. For each one of these people, 5/6 items above are true. One provider also doesn't take the children outside; EVER. She tells people it's so they don't mess up her yard I'm guessing she doesn't want anyone to know how many kiddos she's got there.
Being unlicensed is legal in Ohio, but I have seen the same things. And some of the SAHM's doing care are way out of compliance in ratios. And I don't care if I could easily deal with 12 kids, if the law says 6 I should follow the law. But many of the SAHM's here doing it dirt cheap have some if not all of the above things and way more children than allowed.

I guess to me it comes down to one thing QUALITY childcare. And it irks me when I see anyone doing otherwise.
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Heidi 03:16 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
Being unlicensed is legal in Ohio, but I have seen the same things. And some of the SAHM's doing care are way out of compliance in ratios. And I don't care if I could easily deal with 12 kids, if the law says 6 I should follow the law. But many of the SAHM's here doing it dirt cheap have some if not all of the above things and way more children than allowed.

I guess to me it comes down to one thing QUALITY childcare. And it irks me when I see anyone doing otherwise.
Yes!

I do think that having to be regulated to care for 1 or 2 children is a ridiculous regulation, as some states have. Someone was trying to push it through in WI a few years ago, but I think (hope) they realized that it's just too hard to regulate. They can't keep up with illegal operations now; even blatant ones. I can't imagine if they raised the standard to any unrelated children. It'd be almost impossible to police.

I'm honestly not a letter-of-the-law person. If I knew my neighbor had 4 kids and wasn't licensed, and I saw no other concerns, I'd let it go. But 12? That's a safety issue, IMO. I know BC can have 12 in Minnesota, but there are a LOT of standards she has to meet for basic safety alone. Normally, I'd say 12 is too many, but it really does depend on so many factors. Personally, at this point, I'm happy with a group of 5. I can have 8, but 5 is a nice group, and we can all fit at the same table for meals.
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NightOwl 04:18 PM 06-18-2015
I have to say I am super jealous of some of you! In Alabama, we don't have the option of being legally unlicensed. It's all or nothing and our regulations are strict. No more than 6, only 2 can be under 12 months. I could definitely handle more, and would love to have more, but it's illegal. You guys who can have 6 or more and avoid being licensed are lucky ducks!

I know the standards are, well, standards, but wouldn't it be nice if the number of children allowed is decided based on training and experience? Like, 4 for the first year, 6 for the second year if a certain amount of training had been completed, 8 for the 3rd if even more training was completed, etc. And there would be a ceiling, of course, but this just seems more logical to me than saying a first year provider can have the same amount as a 10th year provider, kwim? I'm rambling, sorry. Just a random thought inspired by this thread.
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Thriftylady 05:07 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by NessaRose:
I have to say I am super jealous of some of you! In Alabama, we don't have the option of being legally unlicensed. It's all or nothing and our regulations are strict. No more than 6, only 2 can be under 12 months. I could definitely handle more, and would love to have more, but it's illegal. You guys who can have 6 or more and avoid being licensed are lucky ducks!

I know the standards are, well, standards, but wouldn't it be nice if the number of children allowed is decided based on training and experience? Like, 4 for the first year, 6 for the second year if a certain amount of training had been completed, 8 for the 3rd if even more training was completed, etc. And there would be a ceiling, of course, but this just seems more logical to me than saying a first year provider can have the same amount as a 10th year provider, kwim? I'm rambling, sorry. Just a random thought inspired by this thread.
I guess I see where you are coming from, but really I would feel better if they did more to shut down those who were not providing quality care. And more to educate the parents that they need to look for quality care, not always cheap care.
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Annalee 07:13 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Heidi:
True....

BUT...(sorry)....

We make a lot of our assumptions based on our experiences. I can tell you that my experience with "illegal" providers in our area has been pretty consistent.

-More children than one adult can handle, often-times and "assistant" who is actually their own home-schooled or off-for-the-summer preteen/teenager.
-Little or no real equipment, mostly garage sale stuff or their own kids old toys, generally in poor repair.
-No sense of routine, no consistency in daily schedule, no real guidelines for the kids
- A lot of TV on..either background noise or provider watching or kids parked
-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
-Provider has NO training in child development, guidance, CPR, Shaken Baby Syndrome
-No adult in the home has had a background check done. That doesn't guarantee anything, I know, but it does rule out some of the "rif-raf". We live in a small community, and presumably everyone knows who the rif-raf is, but not always. Worst cases are almost always the provider's boyfriends.

There are 5 illegal providers in my county that I know of. For each one of these people, 5/6 items above are true. One provider also doesn't take the children outside; EVER. She tells people it's so they don't mess up her yard I'm guessing she doesn't want anyone to know how many kiddos she's got there.
I agree 100% because this is how illegal providers are in my part of the state but the state doesn't have time to deal with the issue. I did an interview last week since one of the illegals closed....The client told me there were 11 every day to one provider...then told me this provider took care of the client's kids while she and hubby went on trips which I said I would not do....But when I brought out my handbook and contract separated and what was needed at daycare and what was to be followed...I was asked several times "do I have to pay for that day" and I always said yes, 52 weeks a year...she then said "Well, we didn't have to do this much paperwork at xxxx",..I said."BUT I am licensed".....this went on an hour and I finally just cut it off....I offer a 3-step interview...she did not make it to step 2
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LysesKids 07:25 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by Annalee:
I agree 100% because this is how illegal providers are in my part of the state but the state doesn't have time to deal with the issue. I did an interview last week since one of the illegals closed....The client told me there were 11 every day to one provider...then told me this provider took care of the client's kids while she and hubby went on trips which I said I would not do....But when I brought out my handbook and contract separated and what was needed at daycare and what was to be followed...I was asked several times "do I have to pay for that day" and I always said yes, 52 weeks a year...she then said "Well, we didn't have to do this much paperwork at xxxx",..I said."BUT I am licensed".....this went on an hour and I finally just cut it off....I offer a 3-step interview...she did not make it to step 2
Even though I am legally licensed exempt, I do the same; I would say over 75% of the people who read my website don't contact me because I do act like a full licensed childcare... I do a phone interview first, I don't allow hassling on fees, I have set vacations & I am only one of 2 eco healthy childcares in the state. If you make it to my home, you still have to pass the 3rd step lol; like you, I have tons of paperwork... I look at it this way, my website weeds out the people that want to cut corners or just want cheap
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Annalee 07:53 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Even though I am legally licensed exempt, I do the same; I would say over 75% of the people who read my website don't contact me because I do act like a full licensed childcare... I do a phone interview first, I don't allow hassling on fees, I have set vacations & I am only one of 2 eco healthy childcares in the state. If you make it to my home, you still have to pass the 3rd step lol; like you, I have tons of paperwork... I look at it this way, my website weeds out the people that want to cut corners or just want cheap

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284878 08:09 PM 06-18-2015
Originally Posted by NessaRose:
I have to say I am super jealous of some of you! In Alabama, we don't have the option of being legally unlicensed. It's all or nothing and our regulations are strict. No more than 6, only 2 can be under 12 months. I could definitely handle more, and would love to have more, but it's illegal. You guys who can have 6 or more and avoid being licensed are lucky ducks!

I know the standards are, well, standards, but wouldn't it be nice if the number of children allowed is decided based on training and experience? Like, 4 for the first year, 6 for the second year if a certain amount of training had been completed, 8 for the 3rd if even more training was completed, etc. And there would be a ceiling, of course, but this just seems more logical to me than saying a first year provider can have the same amount as a 10th year provider, kwim? I'm rambling, sorry. Just a random thought inspired by this thread.
Oh, I so much would like our ratio to be 2 under 12 instead of 2 under 18. I have a mom of twins contact me, she is unable to find a DC with 2 infants spots open.

Originally Posted by :
I agree 100% because this is how illegal providers are in my part of the state but the state doesn't have time to deal with the issue. I did an interview last week since one of the illegals closed....The client told me there were 11 every day to one provider...then told me this provider took care of the client's kids while she and hubby went on trips which I said I would not do....But when I brought out my handbook and contract separated and what was needed at daycare and what was to be followed...I was asked several times "do I have to pay for that day" and I always said yes, 52 weeks a year...she then said "Well, we didn't have to do this much paperwork at xxxx",..I said."BUT I am licensed".....this went on an hour and I finally just cut it off....I offer a 3-step interview...she did not make it to step 2
I love this, 2 types of parents during the interviews. One type wants to know how well you are going to take care of your little ones. The other type wants to know when they DON'T have to pay.
I just interviewed with a set of parents. All of their question was based on payment. They were part time and I only quoted for the 4 days they needed not all 5, like they currently pay at the other dc. When asked if they needed to could they add the 5 day, I said yes at additional cost. Dad was shocked that I would want to get paid for that.
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Blackcat31 06:34 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I guess I see where you are coming from, but really I would feel better if they did more to shut down those who were not providing quality care. And more to educate the parents that they need to look for quality care, not always cheap care.
This would be impossible.

What is quality?

What is YOUR definition of quality?

What is MY definition of quality?

What is a parents definition of quality?


I am willing to bet that none of the above answers are the same

........defining quality....

There is NO one size fits all definition of quality.
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Unregistered 09:15 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by 284878:
Oh, I so much would like our ratio to be 2 under 12 instead of 2 under 18. I have a mom of twins contact me, she is unable to find a DC with 2 infants spots open.



I love this, 2 types of parents during the interviews. One type wants to know how well you are going to take care of your little ones. The other type wants to know when they DON'T have to pay.
I just interviewed with a set of parents. All of their question was based on payment. They were part time and I only quoted for the 4 days they needed not all 5, like they currently pay at the other dc. When asked if they needed to could they add the 5 day, I said yes at additional cost. Dad was shocked that I would want to get paid for that.

Hahah! Yep been there, and it's been across the board. Some of the professionals I've had are the worst parents.

We talk about quality and daycare, but my question is where can we report all the horrible parents? More horrible parents are out there then poor quality daycare imo


I'm so sick of parents picking up their kids, and then putting them in a pnp at 6:00 p.m. because they want their night free. Those are the same ones that are there when you open to close, and most of mine have been teachers, or other professionals for some reason. The list goes on, and it doesn't classify as abuse, but imo it's certainly neglect though they would disagree I'm sure.
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momofboys 09:28 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by AuntTami:
I believe this assumption is being made based upon the rate that the "provider" is charging.

I am cheap for my area at $135/week and there are TONS of women offering care in my area for $75-$100/week. The maximum amount of children we are allowed without a license is 3. That's $300/week. $1200 a month.

Can you pay rent/mortgage, all of your utilities, plus the additional utilities used because of the extra bodies, and all of your other bills, and still afford to provide an excellent curriculum and healthy, well balanced meals, for not only your family but your daycare kids too on $1200 a month?

I can BARELY do it at $135 a week and I've only been able to make it work because my DH makes enough to mostly cover our monthly bills. There's just no way.
No, I definitely couldn't live on that but I don't have to because my DH has a good job. I mostly work to supplement his income so I don't need to watch many children. Typically I just have one or two families. Kudos to those who can do more but my home is on the small side. I couldn't imagine more than 2-3 kids at a time (I have three school-agers of my own). $135/week would be high for in-home daycares in my area so it does depend on your location. I charge about $115-120/week.
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Blackcat31 09:35 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hahah! Yep been there, and it's been across the board. Some of the professionals I've had are the worst parents.

We talk about quality and daycare, but my question is where can we report all the horrible parents? More horrible parents are out there then poor quality daycare imo


I'm so sick of parents picking up their kids, and then putting them in a pnp at 6:00 p.m. because they want their night free. Those are the same ones that are there when you open to close, and most of mine have been teachers, or other professionals for some reason. The list goes on, and it doesn't classify as abuse, but imo it's certainly neglect though they would disagree I'm sure.
I don't allow parents to drop off their kids from open to close without charging a rate that reflects their needs.

I charge a rate based on the hours they need. If a teacher wanted to leave their child beyond 3:00, they would pay ALOT more than the teacher who picked up their child at 3:00.

I don't have a rate for "all day".
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NightOwl 09:40 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I guess I see where you are coming from, but really I would feel better if they did more to shut down those who were not providing quality care. And more to educate the parents that they need to look for quality care, not always cheap care.
Agreed. Idk about you, but in my area, we have ONE SINGLE CASE WORKER for our entire county. Centers have several to divide the load, but homes have only one. I initially licensed two years ago and I NEVER saw her again until this month when it was time to re license. Not even a phone call.

So a license doesn't guarantee quality, not here at least. We have a strict set of standards, but no one is enforcing them. So BC is right about that. Who defines quality when, literally, there's no one there to enforce it?

I have no problem reporting illegal providers. But the inspiration to report usually comes when I see they are advertising dirt cheap prices, have unsafe environments or are over the allowed ratio, license or not. If I have to follow those rules, dang it, so does everyone else!

But even when I report, I don't hold my breath. Like I said, ONE worker.
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Thriftylady 09:50 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Even though I am legally licensed exempt, I do the same; I would say over 75% of the people who read my website don't contact me because I do act like a full licensed childcare... I do a phone interview first, I don't allow hassling on fees, I have set vacations & I am only one of 2 eco healthy childcares in the state. If you make it to my home, you still have to pass the 3rd step lol; like you, I have tons of paperwork... I look at it this way, my website weeds out the people that want to cut corners or just want cheap
I act the same way, since I have been licensed fully. I operate the same way as I did then. And I have also found that people are turned off by the fact I have the paperwork and such. I had one mom ask me "do I have to have a contract?". I tried to explain to her that it protects her as well. Needless to say she didn't sign up. Oh well probably didn't want her anyway.
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LysesKids 10:12 AM 06-19-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I act the same way, since I have been licensed fully. I operate the same way as I did then. And I have also found that people are turned off by the fact I have the paperwork and such. I had one mom ask me "do I have to have a contract?". I tried to explain to her that it protects her as well. Needless to say she didn't sign up. Oh well probably didn't want her anyway.
I hear that, I have been fully licensed in 3 states... parents know ahead of time if they make it to my 2nd interview that they don't get the rest of paperwork without a signed contract & first weeks fee lol

I also have a few policies that some parents can't get their head around, including the no fragrances; I do that because I have to as a certified Eco Healthy childcare, PLUS I am deathly allergic to certain chemicals & fragrances... I will not budge on it, and I have booted a family because they never understood they were the reason I had daily asthma attacks (refused to change laundry soap and didn't want to give up fragranced dryer sheets). Sorry, my health comes first, plus some of my special needs babies had issues.
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Josiegirl 03:04 AM 06-20-2015
Originally Posted by Heidi:


-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
Hey now...I sometimes use paper plates And shop garage sales!

I believe illegally operated daycares have a reputation and give the ones who jump through all the state regulated hoops a bad name. Sure, you've got good and bad in both. Before I was forced to do it 'right', I wasn't registered, had up to 10 kids myself, but I didn't do things much differently than I do now. The only big different is the quality of food I serve. I'm glad to be licensed because of all the extra opportunities I receive, grants, food program, all the great trainings etc., etc.
But to be honest, it gets to be a hassle at times always having the state breathing right outside your door. I'd love to just take 4-6 kids and stay unlicensed. In this state we can't have more than 2 unrelated dcfs.
I would do the same as OP did and report them. If *I* have to put in the effort to make a living so should they.
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childcaremom 06:40 AM 06-20-2015
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Even though I am legally licensed exempt, I do the same; I would say over 75% of the people who read my website don't contact me because I do act like a full licensed childcare... I do a phone interview first, I don't allow hassling on fees, I have set vacations & I am only one of 2 eco healthy childcares in the state. If you make it to my home, you still have to pass the 3rd step lol; like you, I have tons of paperwork... I look at it this way, my website weeds out the people that want to cut corners or just want cheap
This is me, too. I am legally unlicensed but operate much the same as a licensed daycare. I think it turns some people off. These are obviously people that I don't want as clients.
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Unregistered 02:48 PM 06-20-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So..what you're really saying is you got jealous because the parents saw something they liked better, and you reported them because you have trouble getting clients. And you're pulling out the LAW card to cover the real motive.
Now, watch everyone think you're the person the OP reported or running an illegal daycare. It's just sourgrapes and imo the same as calling cops for stupid things. You're wasting resources that could help kids that are really being abused. Before, I'm accused I no longer do LEGAL daycare. I'm retired.
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Unregistered 02:52 PM 06-20-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
That's scary 12 is a lot, so much for the law. Ten, twelve for one person is too much imo licensed or not.

As for licensed and unlicensed, both can be good or bad, and that horse has been beaten on this forum.

I do agree it seems like it would be easier to just get licensed, but then again most don't care if someone watches a few kids.
I'd like to point how everyone complains about regulations, but when it comes to closing down the competition everyone here is moral oral...
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Thriftylady 03:08 PM 06-20-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I'd like to point how everyone complains about regulations, but when it comes to closing down the competition everyone here is moral oral...
We follow the regulations we complain about. Why shouldn't everyone have to play by the same rules? Sure there are some those of us who follow them don't like, some are downright stupid. But those of us who operate legally follow even the stupid ones.
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MarinaVanessa 10:30 AM 06-21-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
We follow the regulations we complain about. Why shouldn't everyone have to play by the same rules? Sure there are some those of us who follow them don't like, some are downright stupid. But those of us who operate legally follow even the stupid ones.
I was going to say exactly this. I might complain about some of the regulations and about the process but I still follow the rules.
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Unregistered 01:12 PM 06-21-2015
Regular poster - signed out.
I understand reporting illegal providers for safety reasons.

But I do want to put out there - I THOUGHT I was running legally unlicensed when I was unlicensed for 3 years because I didn't understand the rules. I read the licensing rules and I followed them. I didn't have a yard, so I couldn't get licensed (I moved so I could get licensed last year). I didn't realize that the ratios for unlicensed were different than unlicensed. So I never had more than 8 kids, because that was the amount a licensed provider could care for. Now, I know its 4 kids who aren't related in addition to your own for someone legally not licensed in my state. I was mortified when I found out I had been breaking the law for 2 years. If I would have been reported, I would have been so confused and embarrassed. Once I realized I had misinterpreted the rules, I scaled back to the legal unlicensed ratio until I was able to get licensed. The children in my care were fed organic healthy meals, went to the park everyday (less than a block away) and learned to write their name etc. It was a quality program though unintentionally illegal. I know breaking the law on accident doesn't make it OK, but when I see ads on Craigslist or FB for casual childcare provider, I assume they have no idea about the licensing laws. I will sometimes email them the link to the health departments childcare website as a friendly FYI. What they do with the info is up to them.

I just wanted to put out there my experience.
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Thriftylady 03:14 PM 06-21-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Regular poster - signed out.
I understand reporting illegal providers for safety reasons.

But I do want to put out there - I THOUGHT I was running legally unlicensed when I was unlicensed for 3 years because I didn't understand the rules. I read the licensing rules and I followed them. I didn't have a yard, so I couldn't get licensed (I moved so I could get licensed last year). I didn't realize that the ratios for unlicensed were different than unlicensed. So I never had more than 8 kids, because that was the amount a licensed provider could care for. Now, I know its 4 kids who aren't related in addition to your own for someone legally not licensed in my state. I was mortified when I found out I had been breaking the law for 2 years. If I would have been reported, I would have been so confused and embarrassed. Once I realized I had misinterpreted the rules, I scaled back to the legal unlicensed ratio until I was able to get licensed. The children in my care were fed organic healthy meals, went to the park everyday (less than a block away) and learned to write their name etc. It was a quality program though unintentionally illegal. I know breaking the law on accident doesn't make it OK, but when I see ads on Craigslist or FB for casual childcare provider, I assume they have no idea about the licensing laws. I will sometimes email them the link to the health departments childcare website as a friendly FYI. What they do with the info is up to them.

I just wanted to put out there my experience.
An accident is one thing, but I have personally known some who were illegal and knew it. I have a huge issue with that. Accidents happen, there are misunderstandings and it sounds to me like you were still a great provider. Totally different than some I have seen with more kids than are allowed with a license and such. I am not saying every one who isn't licensed is bad. Like I said already I am legally unlicensed and run a good program and follow the rules I know of that apply to me. I haven't found an actual rule book for Ohio, it seems you have to apply for a license to see one or something. So I follow the ratio rules and the rules I had as licensed in Kansas. So perhaps I am unknowingly breaking one or two. But that is so different than doing it on purpose.
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Play Care 05:17 AM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
An accident is one thing, but I have personally known some who were illegal and knew it. I have a huge issue with that. Accidents happen, there are misunderstandings and it sounds to me like you were still a great provider. Totally different than some I have seen with more kids than are allowed with a license and such. I am not saying every one who isn't licensed is bad. Like I said already I am legally unlicensed and run a good program and follow the rules I know of that apply to me. I haven't found an actual rule book for Ohio, it seems you have to apply for a license to see one or something. So I follow the ratio rules and the rules I had as licensed in Kansas. So perhaps I am unknowingly breaking one or two. But that is so different than doing it on purpose.


I've seen some of the ads on Facebook "Loving mom looking to babysit in her home" etc. And when someone asks about how many kids she's watching and if they are licensed and posts the link to the regulations, they are roundly slammed.
I think most people know but pretend they don't. Or they get defensive about it.
I've said before that if I didn't need to be licensed I would not be. I don't make the rules and I have tried to get families on board when they come up with even more proposed regulations to speak out against some of them. No one seems to care until it affects them and by then it's already a reg/law and too late.
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mommyneedsadayoff 07:04 AM 06-22-2015
It is interesting to read this thread and similar threads about this issue. Some main points seem to be that the laws concerning ratios/licensing are incredibly different state to state so that makes the laws themselves seem irrelevant and superficial. Why am I considered more capable of taking care of 5 kids with no license and someone in another state cannot even watch one child? It makes no sense to me. And the other points seem to be that there are not enough people to regulate all the laws and regulations ayway, so doesn't that also make the laws kind of worthless? I luckily live in a state that allows you to watch kids without a license, but if I did not, I probably wouldn't do childcare anymore. I am just not into the whole state being in my business and having to license just to have a single kid seems overborad to me and not worth it.

The other common theme seems to be "follow the law and if you don't, I will report you." I don't follow that mantra, because I don't think all laws are fair, just, or even necessary, so I mind my own business. If I personally witnessed abuse, I would obviously report, but I wouldn't report someone for not being licensed, whether legal or not. I have no idea what type of care they are providing and if parents are willingly taking their children there, then it is up to the parents to keep up with the quality of care, not me. I feel like some providers just report out of spite. They feel they had to jump threw the hoops, so everyone else should too. Life is about choices. You may have chosen the "right" way according to the state, but it doesn't mean that person across the street who did it differently is not a good person just making a living. I think different types of childcare provide different experiences and it is up to the family to choose what type of service they prefer. This is one of the first situtaions where parents should be held responsible for where they choose to send their kid. It shouldn't be up to the neighbors or random strangers to report a daycare. If you feel like it is necessary, then by all means, but for me, I do not willingly put myself in the middle of the lives of numerous other people and families because of laws that really don't seem to affect quality of care at all, imo. Just my two cents
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Josiegirl 09:04 AM 06-22-2015
PP, you might feel entirely different if you were one of those jumping through hoops. And trust me, the hoops seem to get harder and harder to jump through every year. Then you've got a neighbor doing child care and they might be wonderfully qualified, except they feel they're above the law. And it is the law. Not only that, they're undercutting you, leaving you with less clients.
I entirely agree the state jumps in with too many ridiculous rules and it is definitely up to the parents to judge their own provider. But being a legal provider(I wasn't always but that was way way back) who devotes more hours than should be needed for any job that pays these rates...yeh, it kinda irks me when there are SAHM on FB looking to care for kids at rock bottom prices. I'm in an entirely different mindset about the whole thing than I used to be.
If I'm being spiteful, I'm sorry. I don't think of it that way. I feel what's fair(and legal) is fair.
I also agree that with such a difference nationwide as far as child care regulations, it does seem silly. I WISH we didn't have to be licensed to care for kids.
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mommyneedsadayoff 09:12 AM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
PP, you might feel entirely different if you were one of those jumping through hoops. And trust me, the hoops seem to get harder and harder to jump through every year. Then you've got a neighbor doing child care and they might be wonderfully qualified, except they feel they're above the law. And it is the law. Not only that, they're undercutting you, leaving you with less clients.
I entirely agree the state jumps in with too many ridiculous rules and it is definitely up to the parents to judge their own provider. But being a legal provider(I wasn't always but that was way way back) who devotes more hours than should be needed for any job that pays these rates...yeh, it kinda irks me when there are SAHM on FB looking to care for kids at rock bottom prices. I'm in an entirely different mindset about the whole thing than I used to be.
If I'm being spiteful, I'm sorry. I don't think of it that way. I feel what's fair(and legal) is fair.
I also agree that with such a difference nationwide as far as child care regulations, it does seem silly. I WISH we didn't have to be licensed to care for kids.


I can watch 5 kids with no license in my state, so I don't jump through hoops because I CHOOSE not to. I don't care to watch more than 5 kids, so it is not really an issue for me. I have done childcare for 17 years and when I had my kids, I chose to do in home daycare so I could be home with my kids. I don't charge rock bottom, but my neighbor across the street does and she is licensed. Like I said earlier, I don't think the laws set the standard for quality childcare. I think they attempt to control childcare under the guise of weeding out the bad ones, but in the end, it is the "good" ones who end up going through all the hassles and regs just to do a job they are already amazing at. At least you can admit it may be spiteful to report the people who are not following all the laws, but many say they do it for the welfare of the children and I kind of call BS on that. It reminds me of any other businesses. "The welfare of the children/customer" is really just code for weeding out the competition. Again, jmo and I think it is great if you follow the laws and regs. It protects you int he end from issues, but I also understand why some choose not to do it.
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Thriftylady 10:16 AM 06-22-2015
I see what you are saying in some ways. I also am not licensed like you right now, I don't have to be. I have known several illegal providers and have not turned them in, because there was no abuse. I didn't feel like they were doing all they could, such as feeding food I call crap, but that is up to parents to ask about and choose by either using the provider or not, and I am sure some licensed ones serve the same things. I would report if I saw abuse or something that went against safety, because some parents sadly will choose low cost over good, safe care. I see plenty of it around here, but I don't report because it isn't a safety issue.
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Unregistered 10:27 AM 06-22-2015
That's the real story. We don't have to be licensed either, and it's funny because I've had friends who had a disgruntled parent try and get them in trouble not knowing you don't have to be licensed.

Around here many network or give the parents referrals if their spot is filled. Kind of a pay it forward, and of course you have the few that have the other mentality with the competition thing.
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Blackcat31 12:32 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
It is interesting to read this thread and similar threads about this issue. Some main points seem to be that the laws concerning ratios/licensing are incredibly different state to state so that makes the laws themselves seem irrelevant and superficial. Why am I considered more capable of taking care of 5 kids with no license and someone in another state cannot even watch one child? It makes no sense to me. And the other points seem to be that there are not enough people to regulate all the laws and regulations ayway, so doesn't that also make the laws kind of worthless? I luckily live in a state that allows you to watch kids without a license, but if I did not, I probably wouldn't do childcare anymore. I am just not into the whole state being in my business and having to license just to have a single kid seems overborad to me and not worth it.

The other common theme seems to be "follow the law and if you don't, I will report you." I don't follow that mantra, because I don't think all laws are fair, just, or even necessary, so I mind my own business. If I personally witnessed abuse, I would obviously report, but I wouldn't report someone for not being licensed, whether legal or not. I have no idea what type of care they are providing and if parents are willingly taking their children there, then it is up to the parents to keep up with the quality of care, not me. I feel like some providers just report out of spite. They feel they had to jump threw the hoops, so everyone else should too. Life is about choices. You may have chosen the "right" way according to the state, but it doesn't mean that person across the street who did it differently is not a good person just making a living. I think different types of childcare provide different experiences and it is up to the family to choose what type of service they prefer. This is one of the first situtaions where parents should be held responsible for where they choose to send their kid. It shouldn't be up to the neighbors or random strangers to report a daycare. If you feel like it is necessary, then by all means, but for me, I do not willingly put myself in the middle of the lives of numerous other people and families because of laws that really don't seem to affect quality of care at all, imo. Just my two cents
Not trying to cause a uproar but that is one of the silliest statements I think I've ever read....

So because there aren't enough people to enforce a law, the law is worthless?

Whether there are or aren't enough people to enforce a law doesn't make it worthless... it simply means that too many people feel they are above the law so they disregard it and now because so many people are in that mindset, there aren't enough people to enforce it.

It used to be people did the right thing and followed the law simply because it was the right thing to do, not just because someone was watching or enforcing it.

I think if people don't like certain laws/rules we (as Americans) are given methods and avenues to change those laws/rules rather than simply disregard them.


On another point brought up in this thread... I don't view any daycare provider as competition and am always happy to help a fellow provider out in any way I can because I do believe there is a right fit for every family and I don't care to have families enrolled that didn't specifically choose me for my program and/or myself so other providers in my area aren't competition in my eyes but if I saw someone advertising their daycare and they were illegal, I would more than likely reach out to them and offer them assistance in being licensed (you must be licensed in MN for more than one family) but if they refuse to accept my help or were blatantly disregarding the law simply because they can, I would probably report them. For NO other reason other than they are knowingly illegal. Same goes for some one I see run a stop sign or steal something in a store.

Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter the reasons or logic behind it.

I care about this profession and the generalized stereotypes and unfair beliefs many people have about it and I work hard to maintain a good program with a good reputation so I will always do what I believe is for the improvement of this field.
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Leigh 12:46 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Not trying to cause a uproar but that is one of the silliest statements I think I've ever read....

So because there aren't enough people to enforce a law, the law is worthless?

Whether there are or aren't enough people to enforce a law doesn't make it worthless... it simply means that too many people feel they are above the law so they disregard it and now because so many people are in that mindset, there aren't enough people to enforce it.

It used to be people did the right thing and followed the law simply because it was the right thing to do, not just because someone was watching or enforcing it.

I think if people don't like certain laws/rules we (as Americans) are given methods and avenues to change those laws/rules rather than simply disregard them.


On another point brought up in this thread... I don't view any daycare provider as competition and am always happy to help a fellow provider out in any way I can because I do believe there is a right fit for every family and I don't care to have families enrolled that didn't specifically choose me for my program and/or myself so other providers in my area aren't competition in my eyes but if I saw someone advertising their daycare and they were illegal, I would more than likely reach out to them and offer them assistance in being licensed (you must be licensed in MN for more than one family) but if they refuse to accept my help or were blatantly disregarding the law simply because they can, I would probably report them. For NO other reason other than they are knowingly illegal. Same goes for some one I see run a stop sign or steal something in a store.

Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter the reasons or logic behind it.

I care about this profession and the generalized stereotypes and unfair beliefs many people have about it and I work hard to maintain a good program with a good reputation so I will always do what I believe is for the improvement of this field.
I agree. I don't have a problem with unlicensed, and I nearly ALWAYS include some unlicensed providers in referrals when I am turning someone away. Some of my community's BEST providers are unlicensed. There's a HUGE difference between unlicensed and illegal. BC said it: Right is right and wrong is wrong. That's really all that needs to be said. The law needs to be followed.
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mommyneedsadayoff 12:53 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Not trying to cause a uproar but that is one of the silliest statements I think I've ever read....

So because there aren't enough people to enforce a law, the law is worthless?

Whether there are or aren't enough people to enforce a law doesn't make it worthless... it simply means that too many people feel they are above the law so they disregard it and now because so many people are in that mindset, there aren't enough people to enforce it.

It used to be people did the right thing and followed the law simply because it was the right thing to do, not just because someone was watching or enforcing it.

I think if people don't like certain laws/rules we (as Americans) are given methods and avenues to change those laws/rules rather than simply disregard them.


On another point brought up in this thread... I don't view any daycare provider as competition and am always happy to help a fellow provider out in any way I can because I do believe there is a right fit for every family and I don't care to have families enrolled that didn't specifically choose me for my program and/or myself so other providers in my area aren't competition in my eyes but if I saw someone advertising their daycare and they were illegal, I would more than likely reach out to them and offer them assistance in being licensed (you must be licensed in MN for more than one family) but if they refuse to accept my help or were blatantly disregarding the law simply because they can, I would probably report them. For NO other reason other than they are knowingly illegal. Same goes for some one I see run a stop sign or steal something in a store.

Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter the reasons or logic behind it.


I care about this profession and the generalized stereotypes and unfair beliefs many people have about it and I work hard to maintain a good program with a good reputation so I will always do what I believe is for the improvement of this field.
Wow, I am kind of flattered if that is the silliest thing you have read on this board, BC! Making laws you cannot enforce sounds about as silly to me, but that is my opinion. So who determines what is right and what is wrong? I think you stated earlier about who determines what is quality care. Does being a politician who may have never taken care of child in their whole life a good representative for what is right and wrong when it comes to childcare? In another thread about quality childcare, many people stated they would prefer small groups, yet the state will license someone for 12 kids or more. Does that provide more quality childcare than someone who illegally watches two kids in a state where you have to have a license no matter how many kids? Our country loves to make laws, yet they have very little means to enforce them. When it comes to child care, I feel it should be up to the parents to keep up with their providers. Unless I have direct knowledge of abuse, I am not going to call someone out for making a living.
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Blackcat31 01:10 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Wow, I am kind of flattered if that is the silliest thing you have read on this board, BC! Making laws you cannot enforce sounds about as silly to me, but that is my opinion. So who determines what is right and what is wrong? I think you stated earlier about who determines what is quality care. Does being a politician who may have never taken care of child in their whole life a good representative for what is right and wrong when it comes to childcare? In another thread about quality childcare, many people stated they would prefer small groups, yet the state will license someone for 12 kids or more. Does that provide more quality childcare than someone who illegally watches two kids in a state where you have to have a license no matter how many kids? Our country loves to make laws, yet they have very little means to enforce them. When it comes to child care, I feel it should be up to the parents to keep up with their providers. Unless I have direct knowledge of abuse, I am not going to call someone out for making a living.
You do. You get to vote for every politician that represents your area/city/state that runs for office.

The ones we like or voted for don't always get elected but they are still elected by the people.

As for agreeing or disagreeing with the laws/rules...instead of people just ignoring them if they don't agree, there are hundreds of thousands of people every year who advocate for change and many DO make a difference....

I am not saying I agree wholeheartedly with every law my state has but I still follow them because the law is the law and as a person with a huge conscience, I just couldn't bring myself to blatantly break the law. I just couldn't.

Like the stop sign I mentioned earlier... I stop (completely) every day. Once on my way to work and once on my way home from work and have done so for 20+ years......even though I don't think I have ever seen another car/driver on the road at that stop sign even once in all those years....but still I stop. Because it's the law.

Now if I thought I shouldn't have to stop at that intersection because it's a poorly placed stop sign (it is) I would lobby to have it removed before I ever felt justified in ignoring it or blatantly disregarding it.

As for your statement "Unless I have direct knowledge of abuse, I am not going to call someone out for making a living" does that apply to drug dealers too? Same concept.... you have NO direct knowledge of the impact of their illegal behavior but if your neighbor was dealing drugs (without having an effect on you) would you turn them in or would you let them continue dealing drugs because they are after all just trying to make a living...just like everyone else?
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:17 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You do. You get to vote for every politician that represents your area/city/state that runs for office.

The ones we like or voted for don't always get elected but they are still elected by the people.

As for agreeing or disagreeing with the laws/rules...instead of people just ignoring them if they don't agree, there are hundreds of thousands of people every year who advocate for change and many DO make a difference....

I am not saying I agree wholeheartedly with every law my state has but I still follow them because the law is the law and as a person with a huge conscience, I just couldn't bring myself to blatantly break the law. I just couldn't.

Like the stop sign I mentioned earlier... I stop (completely) every day. Once on my way to work and once on my way home from work and have done so for 20+ years......even though I don't think I have ever seen another car/driver on the road at that stop sign even once in all those years....but still I stop. Because it's the law.

Now if I thought I shouldn't have to stop at that intersection because it's a poorly placed stop sign (it is) I would lobby to have it removed before I ever felt justified in ignoring it or blatantly disregarding it.

As for your statement "Unless I have direct knowledge of abuse, I am not going to call someone out for making a living" does that apply to drug dealers too? Same concept.... you have NO direct knowledge of the impact of their illegal behavior but if your neighbor was dealing drugs (without having an effect on you) would you turn them in or would you let them continue dealing drugs because they are after all just trying to make a living...just like everyone else?

I would not turn in my neighbor for drug dealing, unless I know they are selling to kids. I have very strong opinions on drug laws. I watched my mother suffer through 10 years of leukemia and if she had been ale to have the drugs that are now available for medicinal use in many states, she would have had a much better quality of life. I don't judge based on laws. I do not look at someone who has used marijuana and been caught as a bad person or even someone worthy of prison time. I judge based on character and what I KNOW, not what I believe to be true. You can make anything a law, but it does not matter if you do not enforce it. Similar to how you can have rules/policies in your daycare, but if you don't enforce them, they don't mean a thing.
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:18 PM 06-22-2015
just curious why my previous post would not be allowed without a moderator allowing it? Did I do something wrong?
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Blackcat31 02:35 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
I would not turn in my neighbor for drug dealing, unless I know they are selling to kids. I have very strong opinions on drug laws. I watched my mother suffer through 10 years of leukemia and if she had been ale to have the drugs that are now available for medicinal use in many states, she would have had a much better quality of life. I don't judge based on laws. I do not look at someone who has used marijuana and been caught as a bad person or even someone worthy of prison time. I judge based on character and what I KNOW, not what I believe to be true. You can make anything a law, but it does not matter if you do not enforce it. Similar to how you can have rules/policies in your daycare, but if you don't enforce them, they don't mean a thing.
I guess we will just agree to disagree then.

My faith in the law is dependent on the fact that people will do the right thing and follow the law regardless of whether it's enforced or not.
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:53 PM 06-22-2015
I totally understand! Different perspectives and views is what makes us all unique My own experiences have turned me away from using the law as an excuse to bring people down. I give what I get and it is great love and respect for caring for children...licensed or not, the people I know are good people and they don't deserve to be treated like a criminal and be investigated. If you feel the need to turn someone in, the go with your gut! Instinct is something you should not ignore!
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Blackcat31 02:55 PM 06-22-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
just curious why my previous post would not be allowed without a moderator allowing it? Did I do something wrong?
Nope, not at all....

Sometimes the forum just has weird glitches...

Tom Copeland links for example never post without moderation...and I have no clue as to why.

There are a couple members (Butterfly is one that comes to mind) that requires all her posts to moderated....again, for no reason I am aware of and I think another member had the same issue and had to create a whole new account because of it.

So no worries...it was nothing you did.
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mommyneedsadayoff 03:13 PM 06-22-2015
ok and thank you BC! Just didn't want to break any forum rules!
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NightOwl 11:44 PM 06-22-2015
It was me BC. I was Wednesday and changed it to NessaRose and it solved the problem. Tell butterfly to try a completely different user name.
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Tags:reporting - daycare, unregistered daycare
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