I had a new kid start (3 months ago, so new-ish) who was contracted from 7:45-3:45. I do care for UP TO 10 hours a day at a flat rate, longer is at a higher rate(I really discourage kids being left in care from open-close). Mom asked about this last week. Today she asked to change her contracted hours to change their pickup time to 5:45. She also asked what the fee would be if she could drop off at 6:45 instead of 7:45 and then go home and shower/get ready for work. She gets out of work at 3:30. So she wants dcb here for 3 hours a day when he really doesn't need to be. poor dcb.

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This weekend I'm updating all my paperwork and this is where I'm stuck. I right now charge an hourly rate and I think it stops people from doing this as they see how quickly the hours add up and what it cost them.

I want to go to a daily rate but don't want this to be happening as I do have some parents that do work 10 hour days.

If you charged her hourly do you think it would stop her from wanting to drop him off so much?

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with this family, I'm not sure it would matter. Money isn't really an issue. If I charged hourly I would be afraid of my other families taking kids out early and losing money. I have other dcb every Monday bright and early even though Mom doesn't work, but if she paid by the hour (instead of the flat weekly rate) I'm sure she would double think that!

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Thats the beauty of charging hourly though-you get the parents who want to be with their kids! They won't want to pay all the extra money so they drop them off right before work and then pick them up on the way home from work. Not after they run all their errands and such.

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sad Perhaps she is overwhelmed with life right now?? Honest confession: I know when my first born was in daycare, I felt very disconnected as my job was really stressful at the time, and I was so overwhelmed with work + motherhood + home responsibilities + being in college as well. It wasn't until we had a family vacation where we just stayed home together as a family for a week without outside distractions that I realized how much I was missing with him, and realized the changes I needed to make for our family to be cohesive (and for my sanity!). I only wish I could have that time back! My only thought is that we never know what another person is going through, and I hope you can find a solution that works for both of you. {{{{hugs}}}}

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I used to do a flat weekly rate but ran into this alot! Now my weekly rates are based on their departure time. The later they stay the more they pay. Has worked out amazing for me!

My aunt who used to run a daycare charged by the hour but had a min. weekly rate to hold the spot. For example $2.00/hr per child with a min weekly fee of $60.00 week. So the $60.00 covered up 30 hours a week but anything over was an extra $2.00/hr.

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I kind of like that. $60 week up to 30 hrs then extra each hour. That's a good idea. I might consider that. Although my very first question is what hours do you need. I don't even tell parents what hours I'm available. I ask what they need and then tell them if I can accomodate that schedule or not.

But I must say that I was a parent whose child was in care open to close, but it wasn't my choice. I dropped her off as late as possible (most days 6am)and picked up as early as possible (anywhere from 5-6pm) But she was at a daycare center and I was active duty military. So there wasn't much I could do about my schedule. But I never stopped anywhere, never went home and showered or anything. I was single parent whose child was still waking up at night well over 1 year old and I still couldn't fathom leaving my child in care when I wasn't working.

The ONLY tiime I left her in care when I got off was when I had a 24 hour duty the night before. I would drop her off at daycare and work from 6:15am to 4pm, then stand duty at the barracks from 4pm-8am. (A friend would pick up my daughter from daycare. Would take care of her over night and would sometimes even bring her by to see me for a few minutes eventhough it meant driving back and forth onto and off the base. Then she would drop my daughter off at daycare in the morning) I would then go directly to work at 8am and get off at 1 or 2pm. Go home, sleep until 5 and then go pick her up to take care of her because I'd had maybe an hour or two of sleep the night before. I don't get parents that can leave their kids in daycare all the time and not feel guilty. I hated missing so much of my daughters life.

Sorry, I know I started ranting there, but I really truly don't undertand this behavior.

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I can't "like this" enough!

This family doesn't need the income, it is disposable, so the hours are just crazy, imo. She has said how she couldn't be home with dcb all day, how she would go stir crazy 'just sitting around' etc. I guess what irritates me the most is instead of being paid, I'd like her to listen when I say the adorable things dcb does, how much his speech is progressing (new word almost everyday) how he SINGS now, instead of rushing dcb out the door, folding his artwork and stuffing it in his bag while he looks dejected and cries. I do try very very hard to be sympathetic, but my kids always have and always will come first.

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So sad. Poor dcb.
I can't stand even the idea of dropping my kid off at daycare. I realize its how we make our living, but I don't know how others do it. If I had to do it I wouldn't be adding any extra time on to the day. I HAVE a family that comes even when parents aren't at work. I feel bad for the kids. They know mom or dad is home.

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I do a daily rate and have not run into a huge issue of parents leaving kids in daycare for every second possible. I only have one that is here open to close but I only allow 10 hours max anyway, so the daily/weekly rate works well for me. Its less for me to keep track of!

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Careful ladies! or Crystal will start a thread flaming you for being judgmental and hateful

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It's not easy for me to admit, but I felt overwhelmed and stressed when I had my second child and was working full time in a challenging job with a long commute (and pumping breast milk in a supply closet at work!!). I was one of those parents who left my children in daycare sometimes just to be able to have some down time (though I will say that OH did pick her up early when he could). After 7 months of this, we moved and I was in a position to be able to stay home with my children. It took me a while to adapt, but made me realize what I had missed. I think the fact that we didn't have any support network (no family or friends in the area as we had only just moved a short time before my younger daughter was born) made it more difficult. I felt very isolated and depressed at the time.

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I have in my contract that my hours are just for "work" I've had parents go home cook dinner, play on the computer, read their mail oh and forget their kids. I'm not here to raise other peoples children, I'm here to watch them and take care of them while parents are working. I would tell mom no, that you can't do it.

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This comment is uncalled for.

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I always asked parents who were looking for a daycare provider what hours they needed. Then, if the hours worked for me, those were the hours I put in thier contract for a set amount per day. Most of my parents through the year dropped off on the way to work and picked up on the way home. I did contracted hours because I personally did not want kids from 6 a.m. until 6 p.m. everyday which is what I think may have happened if I had done open and close times instead of contracted hours...it had nothing to do with my thoughts on how much time they should spend with thier kids, I just wanted more time for my family and things we needed to do.

I have been on the other side though and being a mom who works full time outside the home is not easy. Everything that I did later as a SAHM still had to be done when I worked. When I was working full time years ago and had 2 small boys (they were in childcare from 6 weeks old until 1st and 3rd grade), they went to a daycare center that was open from 6:30 a.m. until 6 p.m., or something similar. My kids were not there every hour it was open, but I did not always pick them up directly after work. My bus would get to the park and ride around 4:30 or so and, sometimes, I would go do my grocery shopping before I picked them up. Sometimes I would do other errands, too, like Christmas shopping at Toys R Us, before I picked them up. I do not think they suffered because I sometimes picked them up at 5:30 instead of 4:30. Doing it this way saved me from having to take 2 small children to the store or me having to leave later in the evening to do the errands.

So, I can understand why some parents may want to use available time in daycare to get things done at home, do errands, or even showering after work before picking up or dropping off in the morning and going back home to shower and get ready. Honestly, the time taken to shower and get ready for work or go grocery shoppping is not what I call quality time with a child. If anything, it could make for a more stressful morning or trip for the parent and child if that child is one who makes it difficult to do these things. Based on my own experience, I really find it hard to begrudge a parent time to shower or shop in peace. That being said, I can't see sending a child to daycare every day when mom is a sahm or parents picking a child up hours after leaving work every day.

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It's right in my contract - I am not a babysitter. I am a daycare provider. I provide care during work days/hours so parents/guardians can WORK.

Work does not mean getting your hair done, or going out shopping with a friend, or dropping off your child even though you have the day off and want to run errands unhindered because you've never taught your child how to behave in a grocery store. Schedule that on your own time, with your own sitters or *gasp* take your child WITH you and spend that time TOGETHER. I've had some kids with me for upwards of 45-50 hours a week, week after week, month after month....and then those parents still ask me all the time if I'll watch them evenings when they want to do whatever or even weekends. I understand some parents have to work long hours that much to make ends meet, I was single mom of two for several years so I get that, but the ones that don't, the ones that just really have no desire to spend any time with their child really REALLY tick me off.

Every parent gets stressed, every parent needs a break sometimes, but what I think many fail to consider in those moments is their child often does too. Especially when they're always in the care of someone else and never at home except to sleep.

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I can understand being upset about parents who obviously don't want to spend time with their kids (although even there, it can be dangerous to judge motives...we can't truly know what is in a person's heart). But, I don't think that every parent who wants to make a trip to the grocery store sans children is a bad parent.

My kids behaved fine in the grocery store. It was just faster and easier to go by myself. The daycare did not care what I was doing as long as I paid them. My kids were not in daycare "upwards of 45-50 hours a week". I went to work as early as my boss would let me so I could get off earlier and pick up earlier and my husband went in later so he could drop off later in the morning so that we could AVOID having them in care from open to close. They were with us way more than just to sleep (I have tons of dated pictures and home movies to prove it). Most days I went right from the bus to the daycare to get them. But, every 2 weeks, when we got paid, I would go to the grocery store before picking them up. Never have my sons shown any sign that the extra hour in daycare every other week made them feel unloved or unwanted. They are 17 and 19 now, so I think it would have shown by now if their lack of trips to the grocery store in thier youth had harmed them emotionally.

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but now a days, thats not the norm. People are just dumping thier kids off. You didn't hear people complain how they can't get anything done with kids, they can't go out, they NEED time to themselves, its such a selfish society its crazy.

yesterday I went and bought some frozen stuff (M&M's for those in ontario) and the guy was saying how parents come in and tell him how little johnny doesn't like this and that, so they need to buy something that johnny will eat. He was saying that more and more parents are catering to their childrens food issues too.

my neice is 17 and has no idea what she wants to do in college, doesn't want to work or learn to drive, and whats worse is that this is starting to become a normal thing for teenagers here, heck they even did a huge newpaper article on this.

opps sorry, what the op was referring to, is there are some parents who just don't care and do it all the time.

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My professor in a course called Professional Relations had this saying/quote on the front page of every assignment and it has stuck with me so much so that I saved it and keep it posted on my bulletin board;

"Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right."

I think it is fitting. We are blinded by our own personal perceptions of what we believe to be right or correct. We have no idea what another person's thought process or life's experiences are and why they do what they do.

Acceptance is an absolute necessity in this ever changing and judgmental world. I would think that people teaching and caring for our youngest folk would be better at practicing it.

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It's not about judgment, that's ridiculous.

It's simply how I personally feel my role as a provider should be defined.


It is no different than how some provders believe there should be no tv on for their daycare kiddos while they're in their care, that leaving it off is best for the kids. In that same respect I feel a child should be entitled to spend as much time with their parent(s) as possible. That is the direct result of my experiences within own childhood. I was near raised by daycare providers my first 5 years of life and I disagree that's what's best for any child.

Because I restrict my parameters of care to work hours only because I think that's what's best for the child doesn't mean I am judging parents any more than a provider that restricts tv time is judging parents who turn it on at home.

It is simply an operations choice.


If you want to talk judgment though how about coming down on a fellow provider simply because you believe differently? Why should my choice at all matter to you? Pot meet kettle?


The parents that contract with me have always agreed with my work only policy and think it's great that I encourage parents to spend as much time with their kids as possible, whether it's convenient or easy for them has always been moot. They simply cherish every moment because so many work long enough hours as it is. I could care less about the money I "lose" on that policy, what it adds to the quality of a life for the kids in my care that I grow to love so dearly is priceless in comparison.

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Agree.

And I'm glad my policy weeds out parents like that, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable providing care for a parent who preferred their child spend free time with me instead of them. Additionally, I can't imagine being a child in care who's mother or father didn't want to spend that free time with me when we already spent so much time apart as it is!!!

It was hard enough being the child of a teenage mom who worked and went to school and needed to put me in daycare 7a-6p every day. I couldn't begin to imagine how it would have made me feel to learn she was frequently going off and doing whatever instead of actually doing what she had to do to keep food on our table. Definitely would have altered my perception of how I viewed those really early tough years in my childhood. As it stands, despite some of the h*ll I endured at the hands of those "providers" I still only look back on it and her with complete admiration and respect. I know it was hard, harder than I could even imagine I'm sure, despite that it was never too hard for her to take me with to the grocery store. Maybe it would have been faster and easier, but being a mother to me was never about what was easiest for her. I remember those trips with such fondness because it was some of the only outing time we had together....she obviously knew that at the time and it meant more to her than what was merely convenient for herself.

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"Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right."


I'm not applying it to this situation, but oh goodness, do I love this. I want to needlepoint it and put it at the top of my Facebook page!!


As for this situation. I have a mom who pays for 9 hours a day. I knew she was going home and showering before pick up, which was fine with me. She has a really dirty, messy job and I didn't blame her. With little ones, it could have been hours before she got a chance to shower otherwise. Then I realized that many days she actually only worked 4 hours and was cleaning, shopping, whatever for the rest of the time. That sort of ticked me off at first, but I looked at the bigger picture. The kids are only with me 3 or 4 days a week, so they have plenty of mom time. She never, ever criticizes or questions anything I do, ever. She's always on time--sometimes only by 2 minutes, but still on time. Since my husband was diagnosed with cancer, I've had to close a few days for him. Never a word or complaint about it. When I raised her price, she was fine with it. When I finally got around to the handbook and contract, she was fine, never questioned a thing. She trusts me with her children. It's almost like we are team raising these kids. Her ways come first, but she listens to what I have to say too. We both love these kids and want the best for them. That's nice-really, really nice, and pretty rare in my experience. After that, I decided to adopt the philosophy that she paid for the time and it isn't my business what she does with it. Sure, I'd love to be paid for 9 hours (and many days, she actually does work the entire time) and work 4.

So, it's a trade off. I suspect that if she was writing this she would have her own list of what she tolerates from me.

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I respect your opinion and as long as the families in your daycare have signed your contract and agree with your policy, that's great. I do think that it isn't just quantity of time spent with a child, but quality too that matters. There are some families who will physically be with their child, but are busy talking on their cell phone or texting and are not mentally there. Is this better than having a child remain in daycare? In other words, because a parent picks up their child from daycare early does this necessarily mean they are going to be spending more "time" with the child? On the other hand, what about the parent who has a stressful day, comes home from work and just wants to take that shower before picking up their child? Perhaps that shower means the difference between feeling refreshed and reenergized and ready to focus spending quality time with their child as opposed to still feeling stressed and wanting nothing more than to pick up their child and go home. I am asking these questions more rhetorically really as I think everyone might have a different response and I don't necessarily have the answer to them anyway. I truly believe that most families want the best for their child/ren and do care, it just might not be the same way we would do things.

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I guess our definitions of judgment are very different.

Who said I believe differently? Or what I believed? How is that judging a fellow provider???

You are right, your choice doesn't matter to me. Not sure how the pot/kettle comment fits in here.....

It's great that you found a way to NOT participate in something you don't believe in. You are choosing not to provide care for parents that aren't at work.
Good for you....beats coming on line and dissing them for their choices and parenting styles.

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Wow. Nice way to go off topic! Was this really neccessary?

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That sucks.

I would ask her directly what the reasoning is for needing the extended hours. Maybe if she has to say it out loud she will feel a sense of shame and decide she doesn't need the extra hours after all.

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It depends on what she needs the extra hours for. DCM has already said the mornong hours are so she can take a shower and get ready for work. Could she do this with her children in the house yes. If the DCM was taking a shower while the c hildren where in the house is the mom realy spending time with the child no she is taking a shower. Does it realy matter where the children are home are Day care either way they are not spending time with mom she is taking a shower.

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I get that.....certainly I understand wanting to shower in peace and technically it is not taking any time away from the child (except, I wonder who really takes an hour long shower) However she has also asked for extended evening hours, time she could spend with her child.

Personally, I don't care either way. I don't ask parents if they are working, socializing, or spending time alone. I get paid and to me it makes absolutley no difference what they do with their time.

I was just responding to the OP who DOES take issue with it and advising how she might be able to correct the situation without it being a hassle for her.

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