Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>3 Yr Old Refuses to Clean Up For Lunch
Pandaluver21 12:03 PM 08-16-2018
Ok, I'm out of ideas!
I have a three year old that has been consistently refusing to clean up for lunch. He will clean up just fine the rest of the time, but come lunch time (even if I don't tell him that is next) he will tell me "no" "uh uh" or shake his head. He ASKS to go to timeout or bed or anything that will make him not have to clean up. Its not even that he wants to keep playing. I have no idea why he refuses to clean up. I ask him and he says "I'm still playing" but that's not actually it. If I do end up putting him in timeout, he says "ow my -insert random body part-" every time and that's a scary thing in this job! I can't refuse him food, but either he doesn't eat or I give in and clean it for him so he can eat. He is VERY used to everyone doing everything for him unfortunately. He only comes 2 days a week and not together so I don't have the option to just leave it out for the next day... Help?!?!?!
Reply
Snowmom 12:09 PM 08-16-2018
When it's time to clean up, try running a contest.

"Fastest picker-upper gets to choose lunch plates for everyone."

"The person who cleans up the most toys gets to hand out silverware."

"The one who cleans up the most while singing a song gets to pick out snack today."
Reply
Blackcat31 02:09 PM 08-16-2018
I'd handle it like this:

When it's time to clean up and he says he doesn't want to tell him he doesn't have to. He can sit quietly (NOT in time out) and wait while the others clean up. He can come sit for lunch with everyone else.

When every one is seated for lunch I would give every kid that cleaned up without issue a "treat" (here that is 4-5 M&M's or Gummy Bears) they can eat them as soon as they are done with lunch. (Don't give the treats out if it'll hamper your kid's eating....mine all understand 'after you eat'....)

He will more than likely protest.
Just calmly tell him "You can choose to clean up tomorrow before lunch" and then move on.
NO additional discussion. Change the subject if necessary.

I have found that most kids crave, love and seek attention in LOTS of different ways. Negative or positive the attention is all the same to a kid. So instead of giving him attention for not complying, give the kids that did comply the rewards.

It really does work!
Reply
Pandaluver21 03:50 PM 08-16-2018
At the risk of sounding "unteachable" (which I know it totally does, but that is not at all my intention) I feel like I have tried EVERYTHING! Nothing phases him.

I can not just leave it for other kids to clean up, because we have a "one toy out at a time" rule (set up in centers, as we are a preschool program), so most often it is something he took out or is playing with and needs to put back. The other kids are cleaning up the toy they took out.

The first day this happened I tried everything. Time out, rewarding, talking to him, helping him, asking him, telling him, ignoring him, etc. none of those phased him. Now I completely ignore it. I ask him to clean up and don't even look his way (Because he likes to make sure I see him shake his head no)
Then I go about the day with the other kids.
I can either ignore him and let him sit until nap (missing lunch) which still means he doesn't' clean it up.
Or just do it for him. If I do it for him, he's perfectly content with that and goes about his day.

We give the kids 3-4 chocolate chips or something similar, after they eat their lunch. Have been for a while. He does not get his if he doesn't clean up. He doesn't care.

He is only coming two days a week (Tuesdays and Thursdays) he wakes up every day and just screams or talks or sings or cries or whines until I go in there and tell him to stop, then starts again the second I leave his sight. If I have anyone else sleeping they wake up to that...


His babysitter picked him up today and I let her know how his day went. She said he is the same for her, nothing phases him. She said she will literally have to put him back to bed 25 times and he doesn't care.
He didn't used to be like this. He was "2" but was actually pretty well behaved for a 2yr old (other than being used to people doing things for him) I'm just confused as to why things have changed so dramatically!
Reply
storybookending 08:32 PM 08-16-2018
I would leave him sit there. Plate his food and tell him he can come to the table and join his friends after he puts his toy away. If he sits there until nap so be it, the food was offered but he chose not to comply and come to the table. Put him down for nap as normal if he decides to be stubborn and not pick up and when he wakes up he puts the toy away or he doesn’t get another and has to sit by it. Pay him as little attention as possible.
Reply
Josiegirl 02:28 AM 08-17-2018
What if you change his routine before lunch? Everyone else can play centers since they're good about picking up but put him at the table with a book or a single toy and tell him why.

Sometimes when kids are so stubborn about picking up, I'll just let the others pick up their share and have the stubborn child sit there until they pick up but it doesn't sound like he'll give in. Is he tired by that point? Is it just the one time of day he gets like that?
I've had such a time this summer with a 4 and 5 yo that I resorted to trying the chocolate chips reward of Blackcat. But it hasn't worked out that well and I polished off the bag last night.
Reply
Blackcat31 06:24 AM 08-17-2018
I would give him ONE toy then.
Your choice as to what/which toy.

That is the ONLY toy he gets.
No one else can play with it.

When it's lunch time and time to clean up, tell him to "set his toy here (wherever you want him to store it) so it
s there later when he wants to play with it and so the other kids don't get it. Careful not to say buzz words /phrases like "clean up" but instead use wording such as "set it here" or "put it up here".

I know it's just semantics but it makes a BIG difference
ie...we say "Rest time" here verses "nap time" as the kids know the word nap and to them it means or signals "war" or "power struggle".

Then tell him to come to lunch.
.....he might not say no at this point simply because you are telling him to "put it here" not "clean up"...kwim? He'll think it's to keep it from the other kids etc or think his toy is "special".

If he doesn't comply with picking it up then you do it.
Have him eat lunch and carry on with the remainder of your day. Don't talk about it, try to discuss it or mention it.

If other kids ask about his toy, tell them "It's Johnny's now go play" etc... The least amount of talk and attention the better.

When it IS play time allow DCB to have his ONE toy and NOTHING else. Group participation and school work not included in the off limits activities.....just play time.

Until it bothers/annoys or upsets him he is not going to change. He is enjoying this power struggle but is showing you he is not old enough or mature enough to play with more than one toy. He is showing you that cleaning up the toys is too much for him and beyond his scope of abilities.

I would listen to what he is showing you.
Reply
hwichlaz 08:26 AM 08-17-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
I would leave him sit there. Plate his food and tell him he can come to the table and join his friends after he puts his toy away. If he sits there until nap so be it, the food was offered but he chose not to comply and come to the table. Put him down for nap as normal if he decides to be stubborn and not pick up and when he wakes up he puts the toy away or he doesn’t get another and has to sit by it. Pay him as little attention as possible.
This is exactly what I'd do. I'd have his food ready. He can choose to put the toy away and eat....or not.

I'd also pick one toy for him to play with before that time of day approaches. He can't get another until he's put it away.
Reply
Cat Herder 08:33 AM 08-17-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
I would leave him sit there. Plate his food and tell him he can come to the table and join his friends after he puts his toy away. If he sits there until nap so be it, the food was offered but he chose not to comply and come to the table. Put him down for nap as normal if he decides to be stubborn and not pick up and when he wakes up he puts the toy away or he doesn’t get another and has to sit by it. Pay him as little attention as possible.
At 3, this is what I'd do, too.
Reply
Blackcat31 08:54 AM 08-17-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
I would leave him sit there. Plate his food and tell him he can come to the table and join his friends after he puts his toy away. If he sits there until nap so be it, the food was offered but he chose not to comply and come to the table. Put him down for nap as normal if he decides to be stubborn and not pick up and when he wakes up he puts the toy away or he doesn’t get another and has to sit by it. Pay him as little attention as possible.
I'd be issued a correction order for not allowing him to come to lunch/eat.

I can't say he "chose" not to come as 3 yr olds don't have decision making skills to act in their best interests regarding their basic needs.

I can allow him to have a choice for anything other than his basic needs.

What OP has described is how I ended up in child care. The child's action as she posted is MY child.
He would have held out forever if given the opportunity. Even if it meant a negative outcome for him.

It was the power struggle that interested him and nothing else.
He literally would have starved himself to death....just to win.
Reply
Cat Herder 09:58 AM 08-17-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I'd be issued a correction order for not allowing him to come to lunch/eat.

I can't say he "chose" not to come as 3 yr olds don't have decision making skills to act in their best interests regarding their basic needs. .
It is so crazy how differently each state views things. I can be written up for "forcing" him to come to the table or excluding him from treats. Telling him to come to the table when he is finished cleaning his toys and washing his hands would be the expected action. It follows the posted schedule. If he were two I'd be expected to go model cleaning up WITH him.

Heck, I can be written up for using food as a reward.
Reply
Blackcat31 10:09 AM 08-17-2018
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
It is so crazy how differently each state views things. I can be written up for "forcing" him to come to the table or excluding him from treats. Telling him to come to the table when he is finished cleaning his toys and washing his hands would be the expected action. It follows the posted schedule. If he were two I'd be expected to go model cleaning up WITH him.

Heck, I can be written up for using food as a reward.
Darned if we do and darned if we don't.

Thinking, had the idea come from a licensor, it would probably be perfectly acceptable but since a provider initiated it, then it's a bad idea.
Reply
Cat Herder 10:13 AM 08-17-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Darned if we do and darned if we don't.

Thinking, had the idea come from a licensor, it would probably be perfectly acceptable but since a provider initiated it, then it's a bad idea.
Nailed it. No worries, though. They will change it to the opposite plan next year.
Reply
Ariana 11:20 AM 08-17-2018
At two days a week I would let it go and have hd to do so many times! There is literally nothing you can do by yourself to change this. Especially since he has more than one caregiver. For your own peace of mind just let it go and let him do his thing.

If other kids say “why isn’t tommy doing it” let it be a lesson in how everyone chooses their actions and you are proud of them for choosing good actions, tommy is not choosing good actions.
Reply
Pandaluver21 02:43 PM 08-17-2018
Well I got a message from mom today that says she is enrolling him in the county preschool (Which is a slap in the face, since we are a preschool...) but I'm assuming because it's free and we're not :P
She is also asking to go down to ONE day.
Bye bye
Reply
storybookending 09:29 PM 08-17-2018
Ah free preschool claims another child. At least in this case it’s not one you’re sad to see go.

As for the different states having different rules thing it completely baffles me. I am pretty sure I would be okay with what I advised here. I don’t have the entire manual memorized but food cannot be withheld so long as it’s offered I believe you are good. The wording here is withholding food can’t be used as punishment but (to my knowledge.. it’s late and I’m not looking it up) doesn’t say anything about rewards. It doesn’t go into specifics on when a child is considered old enough to be able to make choices. Of course two different licensors can read the same rule and both have their own interpretation of it. You gotta “know your audience” if you will.
Reply
Pandaluver21 05:26 PM 08-18-2018
Originally Posted by storybookending:
Ah free preschool claims another child. At least in this case it’s not one you’re sad to see go.
I am sad to see him go in a way, but It absolutely needs to happen.

Mom messaged and said he will be starting preschool on the 27th of this month,and will be attending there M-Th (Remember he was only here two days a week...)
She asked if we could still take him on Friday's, even though I have already told her we do not do one day a week.
Our contract states that any change in days needs to be given a two weeks notice, so she would be required to pay the two days a week for the next two weeks anyway.

I gave her two options.
1) Attend two days a week for the next two weeks, then do two weeks notice for terminating the contract. (so 6 more days total)
2)Give two weeks notice for terminating contract now (4 more days total)
She told me she didn't understand and asked why I wouldn't let her come one day because she "has no other option" (No other option for Friday apparently... since she obviously has another option for the other 4 days of the week :P)
I just said "I'm sorry, we don't offer one day a week." and let her know I could give her some other numbers if she's just looking for daycare on Friday's.

She hasn't responded since mid Friday. Payment was due Friday evening. Nothing. Guess they're not coming back :P
Reply
Blackcat31 06:52 AM 08-20-2018
Could the option of attending only one day but paying for 2 be given?

I don't know that it would help or hurt the issue you are having with the child but since he'd be attending preschool the other 4 days a week, he'll more than likely learn to clean up within a group.

But either way, just curious if you've heard back from parent at all yet or if paying 2 days but attending only 1 wouldn't be an option to consider.

I have one family who's child snags one day a week here when someone else is off (different day each week) but I have a 3 day min so the parent pays the 3 days just to get the one day but it was their choice. I only offered to seem nice/flexible thinking easy money but they wont take it. Imagine my surprise when they did. So win win for me I guess.
Reply
Pandaluver21 09:48 AM 08-20-2018
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Could the option of attending only one day but paying for 2 be given?

I don't know that it would help or hurt the issue you are having with the child but since he'd be attending preschool the other 4 days a week, he'll more than likely learn to clean up within a group.

But either way, just curious if you've heard back from parent at all yet or if paying 2 days but attending only 1 wouldn't be an option to consider.

I have one family who's child snags one day a week here when someone else is off (different day each week) but I have a 3 day min so the parent pays the 3 days just to get the one day but it was their choice. I only offered to seem nice/flexible thinking easy money but they wont take it. Imagine my surprise when they did. So win win for me I guess.
We have a 3 day minimum as well, with VERY rare 2 day openings. Not about the money, but more about the routine. She was on a two day per week contract under the impression that it was going to be temporary until school started again (next week)

We are a preschool, he knows how to clean up. He did perfectly fine from the day he started. Cleans up everything else except RIGHT before lunch.

No payment or communication from mom. And THIS is why I require a 2 week deposit now :P
Reply
amberrose3dg 09:54 AM 08-20-2018
Originally Posted by Pandaluver21:
We have a 3 day minimum as well, with VERY rare 2 day openings. Not about the money, but more about the routine. She was on a two day per week contract under the impression that it was going to be temporary until school started again (next week)

We are a preschool, he knows how to clean up. He did perfectly fine from the day he started. Cleans up everything else except RIGHT before lunch.

No payment or communication from mom. And THIS is why I require a 2 week deposit now :P
That sucks sorry that happened.
Reply
Pandaluver21 07:58 AM 08-21-2018
So guess who came for drop-off today
Reply
Cat Herder 08:04 AM 08-21-2018
Originally Posted by Pandaluver21:
So guess who came for drop-off today
Did she pay?
Reply
Pandaluver21 08:57 AM 08-21-2018
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Did she pay?
Nope, which is why assumed she wasn't coming, that and that she never told me what she was planning on doing.

She messaged on brightwheel about 10 minutes before drop off that she was on her way.

When she showed up I told her I wasn't expecting her and she said "well I have two weeks still don't I?!"
Reply
amberrose3dg 08:59 AM 08-21-2018
Originally Posted by Pandaluver21:
Nope, which is why assumed she wasn't coming, that and that she never told me what she was planning on doing.

She messaged on brightwheel about 10 minutes before drop off that she was on her way.

When she showed up I told her I wasn't expecting her and she said "well I have two weeks still don't I?!"
Not two free weeks though. Parents
Reply
LysesKids 09:21 AM 08-21-2018
Originally Posted by Pandaluver21:
Nope, which is why assumed she wasn't coming, that and that she never told me what she was planning on doing.

She messaged on brightwheel about 10 minutes before drop off that she was on her way.

When she showed up I told her I wasn't expecting her and she said "well I have two weeks still don't I?!"
Due to lack of payment alone, in my contract it's an automatic term. The fact of no contact is 2nd reason, automatic term
Reply
Cat Herder 09:23 AM 08-21-2018
How did she take being turned away at the door?

It is good for her to get a dose of no before she gets to public school.
Reply
Pandaluver21 10:59 AM 08-21-2018
Originally Posted by amberrose3dg:
Not two free weeks though. Parents
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Due to lack of payment alone, in my contract it's an automatic term. The fact of no contact is 2nd reason, automatic term
Technically she already paid for her "last two weeks" since we require a 2 week deposit at enrollment.

Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
How did she take being turned away at the door?

It is good for her to get a dose of no before she gets to public school.
She almost cried, asked if he could come Friday, and said "But I did let you know!" (she was referring to the message 10 minutes before dropping off)

I believe what happened is she planned on not bring him back, then when she couldn't find anything else decided to just stop in. She said "well I still have to work today!" (she doesn't work on Tuesdays) and said she could pick him up after lunch...
Reply
Sharee's Childcare 03:12 PM 08-22-2018
Agreed
Reply
Pandaluver21 07:52 PM 09-01-2018
His last day was Friday. No call, no show.
A little sad I didn't get to say goodbye (to the kid) and sad that it ended this way... but no more drama!
Reply
Tags:3 year old, cleaning up, won’t clean up
Reply Up