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  #1  
Old 09-13-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default How to Terminate a Family....

Soooo glad I found this place and hopefully some good advice too....

TIME TO VENT!!!!!

I am pulling my hair out EVERY damn day with a new family I have. Mind you.. they have been with me all summer and close to 3 months now. 2 year old girl and 4 year old boy.... When they first started... I kind of had an idea that they could be "CRY BABIES" but I really wasnt sure if it was just that it was NEW to them or that is how they always are... 3 months later... that is how they always are!!!

I would like to say that is the only issue I am having with them... but it is not...after a month I realized that both of the children were delayed. The 2 year old barely talks... honestly think I have only ever heard her say MOMMY and DADDY... everything else is just SOUNDS and that is when she does speak.. very quiet (again was not sure if it was cause it was a new setting)... but my other 15 month old talks away more then her... also the 4 year old boy I knew right away had speach issues... not to mention he was still POTTY training when he got here.... UGH!!!! Again for the first month or so I was really keeping them cause I figured it was just cause they were NEW... but as time went on I felt like there is NO REASON for all the crying and whining.. on ya.. the WHINING.... the 4 year old whines about EVERYTHING!!!! Thing is that cause they always are crying or whining about the littlest things... the other kids in the daycare really don't want to play with them.. which again starts MORE whining cause they dont want to play with him.. and well I really dont blame the other kids... when even I dont want to play with them....

I guess I could go on and on tell you all about the little things that really BUG me with the kids... and the mom too... but what I really need advice on is how to get RID of them!!!! Thing is.. cause as usual I needed the MONEY and it is always hard to say goodbye to $1100 a month not knowing how long it will take to replace that income.... but here is the other thing.... I have not really been telling the mom that all this crying and whining is happening day after day.... afraid that she might PULL them after a few weeks of all the crying.. I have mentioned when there were BAD BAD days... but have not really let on how much it is happening... so I almost feel like I cant just start bring it up now... cause then it is going to seem like it is something that will past... like the kid is just having a bad day.. bad week or something...

And well for the last month I just keep going around in circles with this family... should I let them go... can I let go of the income... can things get better... will the crying and whining ever END!!!!!! Anyways I just feel like I need to TERM..... but I just dont know WHAT FOR.... I mean... if I was being honest I would say... "cause your kids are annoying and no one likes them in the daycare"... lol.. I am sure that would not go over well...

I just can really not think of ANYTHING to term for.... I mean she always pays me... on time.. is never late picking up or dropping off... the kids are not HITTING anyone or hurting anyone phyically at least.... and well I have always been told when you TERM never ever say that it is cause of the CHILDS issues... (if it was for hitting you say it is for the safety of other children.. not cause your kids a bully)

So what do I do... I mean I can't just tell her now after all this time that it is cause they cry all day.. and whining at every little thing.... All last week I just kept STRESSING out how to TERM this family.. so I figured I would get some experienced advice... so please please HELP... how to term a family that you can say what the REAL issues are!!!!
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:41 PM
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the less you say the better.... DOnt ever provide a reason...

A simple letter stating that you can no longer provider care for their family is all you need to say. Or you can say something along the lines of,

I am no longer able to meet the needs of your children. I know if you were to search termination on here there would be a ton of threads.

As for the kids...

I know its hard, but all children are different, just like adults. You can't compare apples to oranges. You have to think about thier home environments and how the parents interact with them. Some parents read to their children at night and make them go to bed a decent hours. Other let them watch tv and eat junk food until midnight with little or no supervision. Some parents just don't like to parent and this could explain why DCKs are behind. The parents are lazy... I know you said you want to term, however, if I were you, I would give at least one shot for the parents to fix it.

I would ask dcm to come over with no kids and talk with her, or have a set time you can talk via phone and let her know what is going on and that you really need to find a solution or it's just not going to work out..... Either way something comes to an end. A. you find a resolution B they leave or C you term....
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:44 PM
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Deleted.

Thought you asked for help with wording because of your very last sentence and the title of your thread.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:57 PM
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Welcome Happiness!! Vent a way...that is why we are here...to listen and give advise!!

My youngest daughter has delayed speech. She was much like your dcg at the age of 2 who just really didn't not speak. The diff. though in my daughter and this particular child is that my daughter was never frustrated that she couldn't communicate. She always found a way to indicate what she needed. But she is def. a whiner. Not sure if that is a girl thing...hahah!! Now my son on the other hand is my oldest child and he is adhd. He has a hard time with being able to focus or pay attention. So he isn't hyper he just can't seem to stay on task or pay much attention. The med.'s he on however have greatly help in these areas.

$1100 a month in income is a lot...I would love to have that!! lol!! Specially with the economy in the way it is. Sounds like you are greatly stressed out by this family and the kids. But, I would maybe visit the ideal that maybe these children have a speech delay problems. That could explain why there is a lot of whining and frustration. Not to mention they since your stressed. Maybe try and get a meeting w/the parents with out kids and let them know you are concerned in some areas. You can tell them that although the kids really haven't been in care that long that you have noticed some things you'd like to ask them questions on. When you have the meeting mention that you think the children should be evaluated for a speech delay. The state does this for us and there are special services provided for free for child that qualify. If they find out in fact these child do then when there educated on how to better there childs condition then they can also advise you on how you can help. Then you can also let them know that you'd be happy to but will give a 30 trial period to see if the behavior gets better. And if not then you can term. based on that you where unable to meet the needs of the child. There are no guilty parties or upset parents bc you did and tried everything you possibly could!! Now if there parents go blind on you about there child's problems then they aren't doing everything to listen that these child may have a series problem. If they refuse to have a doctor evaluate them or specialist then I would tell them or write then a term letter explaining that they effectively 2 wks you will no longer be providing care for either child due to not being able to meet the children's needs. I hope everything works out for you and good luck!! Keep us updated!!
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:16 PM
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts...

I guess I might have left a couple key points out.... when I mentioned that I had issues as well with the MOM (btw they do live with dad too but I dont really see him much) I didnt really get into them... and well one of them is that she already KNOWS that both of her children are delayed... one of them before she started care but never even told me... I had to mention it... which again is not something as a daycare provider I want to really do... tell a parent that I think their child might be delayed...

She knows that her son has the speech issues and believes that when he starts school (this September) that they will evaulate him and get him on track... (just waiting around for the SCHOOL system to do it really pisses me off as it is)... as for the daughter... she didnt really know until she started daycare... and I had mentioned a couple of times about her not really speaking much and about the noises she is always making instead of talking.....

And I know you can't compare apples to oranges... some kids learn things at different times... but I do have a STEPS sheet that I have used in the past to that gives me an idea of the level each child is at... like.. by a certain age they should be able to understand 3 word directions, mimic sounds etc... with the daughter I am the one that had to tell her that maybe she should have her checked out and her hearing too... and she is like... "oh ya maybe"... which now she is on a LIST to see a doctor about....

But all this delayed stuff aside... this is not the reason I am wanting to let this family go... if anything I can WORK with a child one on one to help out with learning.... but I really cant help out with the WHINING.... I have TRIED... but feel so BLOCKED by the mom like I want to shake her... cause she feeds the whining.. (though she does yell at him all the time in front of me when he does start his whining with her)

One of the things that really really bugs me about the mom is that she is always doing everything for them... at drop off she takes off both of their coats, hangs them up and then sits them down and takes off their shoes.. and pick up time she puts them back on.... Now I know you are thinking that... well they are only 2 and 4.... but when MOM is not here and after 10 mins of WHINING to me about putting on his shoes... the 4 year old always ends up getting them on when it is time to go outside for playtime...

And I have another 2.5 year old boy that has been putting his shoes and potty trained already even.....

Not only does she do these things for him.... but she also is always BRIBING her kids to get their shoes on... and get out the door into the stroller... "Oh mommy has chocolates at home for you... mommy brought you some slurpees"... honestly it is always something.... and well that in it's self is part of the reason they act the way they do... the feel so entitled and they are not used to sharing with other kids or not getting their own way....

I of course notice that most of the whining is only happening at those times... when he is not getting his own way.... I have already talked to mom about different things that have come up.... but she is like... "Well SON you can do that.. you have to share.. you have to do this... yada yada".... but really it is going in one ear and out the other since right after she tells him that she is giving him the damn slurpee....

Again I feel like I am venting more and more about this.... it is just so hard cause I dont have anyone to talk to about this that can really give me good advice... the hubby has wanted me to get rid of them for over a month now... partly cause he cant stand the crying and whining too... but also cause he knows how it is effecting me...

BTW... I have also tried to give the dcb more attention thinking maybe if he gets that attention that he craves maybe the whining will stop... well not really... he just wants more and more... and well it is just so exhausting...

So yes I do know where it is kind of coming from... it is the home life/parenting that is feeding into the crying, whining and some of the delay....

*shrugs*... I just honestly dont see any of these changing... I can only do so much as a provider to try and change these habits... but unless it is going to change at home it is not going to change here...


*sighs*... now I am exhausted from this RANT... lol.. thanks everyone that takes the time to reply and give me your ear...
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:39 AM
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vent away, because you can only handle so much whining before you want to rip your hair out. I guess, I'm mean, but every time he would whine I would send him in the corner till he stopped, he knows the more he does it the more its going to get to you and give in, you need to find a ploy to make him stop.
as for the speech delays, I just sent one to junoir kindy (preschool) his parents knew he had major delays, esp. in speech and they said the same thing "let the school handle it" seriously this drives me crazy, why should it now be the schools problem that you don't care about your kids. And its free here, and they even had coverage for a speech therapist so there was no reason. Also, could the child be tongue tied. I had one like this too, he only made sounds till one day I gave all the kids a lollypop and all the kids could lick it but he couldn't he was biting it, I knew right away what his problem was, showed mom and the problem was fixed. Even the speech people never checked for it (they brought him in to get him evaluated)
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:15 AM
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Thanks countrymom....

Feels good to know that others go through the same things.... I don't think that he is tongue tied... and I am pretty sure that he has already seen a doctor for this.. just that like you said... even though the care is FREE here too for a speech therapist I just dont think that they are those kinds of parents... I mean all she told me is that there are speech therapist in the schools so she is sure they will be able to help him there...

And what gets me about it is that if that were happening to my child I would go BEYOND what the school would offer.... Jezzzz way to let your kid already be behind in school starting off with an issue like that...

Anyways as I said that it is not really the delayed stuff that is an issue..... that is just one thing on the list that makes it harder for me every day to listen to the whining and crying....

I have listened to everyone in here about maybe start making it KNOWN to the mom about all the whining and his need for attention all the time... (he is one of those kids that is always hanging off me and touching me.. pulling me... which in its self drives me nuts but he has gotten better at it since I told him and his mom that some of the touching and rubbing is not appropriate)...

And maybe then there can be an open communication about trying to get him more independent, less sensitive and the entitled feeling he has...
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:32 AM
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I would let her know the issue and give her a time frame where you need to see significant progress by. 2 weeks usually but you could give a month if you are up for it. Assume nothing is going to change though and just start interviewing to fill their spots. That probationary period will hopefully help you feel like you did everything you could to make it work and help you feel better when you have to most likely term anyway. I sort think that she is assuming the babyish behavior is necessary because they are delayed.....separating what is an actual delay and what is her parenting making things worse is not something she is wanting to discover, it makes her more accountable to change instead of putting it off on you or the school. i have a little special needs girl here and her mom was just the same way. constantly making excuses and saying everything was still okay and waiting it out......FINALLY got this girl in behavior/speech/physical therapy and mom is making changes herself and it is thankfully a happy ending because i was really getting worried about this little one.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:52 AM
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I have a slightly different take on the situation.

If the boy is actually developmentally delayed and needs help this may be the main cause for the whining and behavioral problems. When a child can not express themselves verbally they will find whatever means they can to get the job done. Parents often will, without even realizing it, compensate for developmental delays.

The talk you have with the mother and father should come from this stand point. Bring your Step sheets out and go over them with the parents. Explain and show where the children are not meeting milestones of development.

I would then ask them to talk with their pediatrician. I don't know what state you are in, but here in CA we have a system for having children evaluated. You may have something along those lines you can recommend.

If the parents are unwilling to take action, then I would terminate. But first try approaching them about the delays. You may the only one the children have to speak for them if everyone around them is ignoring the situation.

Good luck and let us know what happens!
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:28 AM
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You said, "I can only do so much as a provider to try and change these habits... but unless it is going to change at home it is not going to change here..."

This is so NOT true. I have kids in my program that come from all kinds of different styles of parenting. In all honesty, I pay no attention to how a parent parents their child. I only care about how they behave while in my home. My point is that I cannot control how a parent does things outside of my home, but I CAN control the behaviors in my home.

Whining is a learned behavior so it can be unlearned. Children whine for many different reasons and YOU need to figure out what the reasons are at your house. He obviously has a need that isn't being met. Find out what that need is and teach him to "ask" in words or actions for the thing it is he needs. He needs to be taught pro social behaviors and to learn what is and is not an acceptable way to get attention.

Change your environment so that he feels secure, comfortable and safe. Have routines and schedules so that he knows what is coming next and most of all role model for him the right way to behave. Use words, support his efforts, praise him for doing what it is you want him to do rather than getting on him for doing the "wrong" things. Teach him that whining is not how you get things in your house. Treat him as a big boy and encourage him to do things (like putting on his own shoes) and then praise him big time for doing it.

In all honesty, it sounds like you just really do not like this child and if that is the case and you are unable to find it in yourself to help this child learn to be a big boy at your house (without mom) then I would defintely term him. But if you are willing to put in the time and effort it takes (and it IS hard) to help him change his "evil ways" you have to be able to only focus on his needs. You can't dwell on what mom does or doesn't do at home.

As far as the delays, like you said, it isn't so much that. You can refer and suggest but you can't make the parents do anything about it. Just do what you are able to do on your end in your home and let the parent parent however they feel it is right for them.

You are only in control of what happens at your house. FWIW~ I have several kids who turn into completely different children when their parent is on site...but I pay no mind because they were awesome while I had them during the day...so I wave and smile and say "Have a great night! See you in the morning!" Not my concern what happens between that moment and the next morning...kwim?

Last edited by Blackcat31; 09-14-2011 at 11:19 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You said, "I can only do so much as a provider to try and change these habits... but unless it is going to change at home it is not going to change here..."

This is so NOT true. I have kids in my program that come from all kinds of different styles of parenting. In all honesty, I pay no attention to how a parent parents their child. I only care about how they behave while in my home. My point is that I cannot control how a parent does things outside of my home, but I CAN control the behaviors in my home.

Whining is a learned behavior so it can be unlearned. Children whine for many different reasons and YOU need to figure out what the reasons are at your house. He obviously has a need that isn't being met. Find out what that need is and teach him to "ask" in words or actions for the thing it is he needs. He needs to be taught pro social behaviors and to learn what is and is not an acceptable way to get attention.

Change your environment so that he feels secure, comfortable and safe. Have routines and schedules so that he knows what is coming next and most of all role model for him the right way to behave. Use words, support his efforts, praise him for doing what it is you want him to do rather than getting on him for doing the "wrong" things. Teach him that whining is not how you get things in your house. Treat him as a big boy and encourage him to do things (like putting on his own shoes) and then praise him big time for doing it.

In all honesty, it sounds like you just really do not like this child and if that is the case and you are unable to find it in yourself to help this child learn to be a big boy at your house (without mom) then I would defintely term him. But if you are willing to put in the time and effort it takes (and it IS hard) to help him change his "evil ways" you have to be able to only focus on his needs. You can't dwell on what mom does or doesn't do at home.

As far as the delays, like you said, it isn't so much that. You can refer and suggest but you can't make the parents do anything about it. Just do what you are able to do on your end in your home and let the parent parent however they feel it is right for them.

You are only in control of what happens at your house. FWIW~ I have several kids who turn into completely different children when their parent is on site...but I oay no mind because they were awesome while I had them during the day...so I wave and smile and say "Have a great night! See you in the morning!" Not my concern what happens between that moment and the next morning...kwim?
where's that like button....I agree with this 100% great post
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Growing1atime View Post
I have a slightly different take on the situation.

If the boy is actually developmentally delayed and needs help this may be the main cause for the whining and behavioral problems. When a child can not express themselves verbally they will find whatever means they can to get the job done. Parents often will, without even realizing it, compensate for developmental delays.

The talk you have with the mother and father should come from this stand point. Bring your Step sheets out and go over them with the parents. Explain and show where the children are not meeting milestones of development.

I would then ask them to talk with their pediatrician. I don't know what state you are in, but here in CA we have a system for having children evaluated. You may have something along those lines you can recommend.

If the parents are unwilling to take action, then I would terminate. But first try approaching them about the delays. You may the only one the children have to speak for them if everyone around them is ignoring the situation.

Good luck and let us know what happens!
I completely agree!! Specially since my daughter is delayed I understand first thing about whining and the frustration..on both ends. In AZ the state is wonderful in that it provides these services free of cost and then forwards the kiddo's that need services to a school system that holds the programs. All for free. These kids won't need child care for those hrs. if not all day. I would think the parent would jump at the chance of "FREE". My child gets picked up at our house through the bus system and delivered right back to me at the end of the day. I had to go through the district to set up a evaluation (free) to see what services she would qualify for all bc i felt she might be behind but also others had pointed it out. Not to mention my daughter also qualifies for free pre school bc she has a IEP. That is full day teaching and help to get her ready for K!! I can't believe these parents just don't want to take the time to research what is offered. OP maybe you can find out what your state offers ...I think maybe the same thing...even a head start program for 4 yr old? It's free with a IEP. Then gather the inform. with a meeting to parents showing them what steps they can be taking with the "FREE" approach...sometime parents respond better with "Free" bc these specially services seem like it could be quite expensive. It can be quiet scary. Then maybe move on to how you will provide services for these children or just one bc the 4 yr prob. will be in school and not with you but how you will work with the 2 yr when there is whining. Like not feeding into it but working on better expressing them selves. If tantrums erupt or instant gratification is in effect time outs. Explain to the parents this is how you will be handling it for now on and that you expect that the parents help in this regard if you don't see improvement in these area's then they will be termed. That way it places the parents as the responsible party and you are merely guiding them to be responsible.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:51 AM
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If you do decide to go ahead and term them, simply tell them that you do not feel that it is a good fit for either their children or for your daycare. Simple and to the point. No need for long explanations or excuses.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:05 AM
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If things are as bad as you say and there isn't any hope in sight, I would just draw up a letter, give it to DCM at pick up.

Dear Family,

September 30th will be my last day of providing daycare for your family.

Signed,
Daycare

If you want to go into detail, tell them that their children have not adapted to the group the way you imagined.

Plain and simple.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:18 AM
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i like the previous poster's wording.

i do think that kids this young can learn that the rules at daycare are different from the rules at home however, that is assuming you have the patience necessary to teach them this. there is nothing wrong with saying they are not the right fit. you don't have to work with every kid on every thing and i think we can all agree that when home is very different from daycare, it can make the transition drag out for a loonnnnggg time. it may be easier to find kids that do fit into your group versus trying to force something to work that clearly is not. all i am saying is that every provider is not right for every kid and vice versa and there is no shame in saying "hey this doesn't work for me"
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
You said, "I can only do so much as a provider to try and change these habits... but unless it is going to change at home it is not going to change here..."

This is so NOT true. I have kids in my program that come from all kinds of different styles of parenting. In all honesty, I pay no attention to how a parent parents their child. I only care about how they behave while in my home. My point is that I cannot control how a parent does things outside of my home, but I CAN control the behaviors in my home.
And this is NOT true... I CAN control how behaviors are in my home but I can not CHANGE a child's behaviors if he is receiving different messages at home where that type of behavior is ACCEPTABLE... it then becomes a power struggle which is what I am in right now... The only thing that I can really CONTROL as you say is that if my efforts can not change the behavior in my home then I can CONTROL if I put up with it... or terminate it...

Quote:
Whining is a learned behavior so it can be unlearned.
Yes agreed.... but you can't expect a child that whines and gets his way through bribery to not continue to push those buttons with other adults/care givers...

I mean I know that I have dck that are wonderful at the daycare... but for their parents they are off the walls... (parents tell me all the time) but you can also have the ones that are off the walls at home and daycare....


Quote:
Children whine for many different reasons and YOU need to figure out what the reasons are at your house. He obviously has a need that isn't being met.
Of course there are reasons.... because he wants the toy the one child is playing with and will NOT settle for anything else... cause he wants to sit beside someone that has already decided to sit beside someone else in circle time... because he has to go down for a nap... because he doesn't do what mom says (unless he is getting something out of it) so why should he do what I ask him to do...... Most of it is because he is used to having his own way... and it has been hard for him to learn to share and that other children like their own space....


Quote:
Change your environment so that he feels secure, comfortable and safe.
Security is not the issue...


Quote:
Have routines and schedules so that he knows what is coming next and most of all role model for him the right way to behave.
We are very routined around here other then his outbrusts... and not to say the others are PERFECT but they are very much good role models...


Quote:
Use words, support his efforts, praise him for doing what it is you want him to do rather than getting on him for doing the "wrong" things.
I am insulted that you would even assume that I have not already been doing this and that I would be "GETTING ON HIM"!!!! I leave my VENTING and RANTING for this board..... not to put out on the children....


Quote:
In all honesty, it sounds like you just really do not like this child and if that is the case and you are unable to find it in yourself to help this child learn to be a big boy at your house
I am sorry but if 3 months of effort is telling you that I just don't care about this child... then I can say that you are speaking from experience...



Quote:
But if you are willing to put in the time and effort it takes (and it IS hard) to help him change his "evil ways" you have to be able to only focus on his needs. You can't dwell on what mom does or doesn't do at home.
I think that after 3 months of putting in a great effort and not seeing much of a change is the reason I came HERE to get advice on how to TERM a family without getting into MUD SLINGING between the mom... which is appears I am already getting in here... "I just don't like him, Your not making a good enough effort to help him... it is not HIM it is YOU"... heck if I wanted that kind of feedback I would have just told his mother all the issues I have... but instead I was trying to be professional about it without getting into a confrontation with her.. (or anyone else for that matter)....

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Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
i do think that kids this young can learn that the rules at daycare are different from the rules at home however, that is assuming you have the patience necessary to teach them this. there is nothing wrong with saying they are not the right fit. you don't have to work with every kid on every thing and i think we can all agree that when home is very different from daycare, it can make the transition drag out for a loonnnnggg time. it may be easier to find kids that do fit into your group versus trying to force something to work that clearly is not. all i am saying is that every provider is not right for every kid and vice versa and there is no shame in saying "hey this doesn't work for me"
And that is just it... after 3 months of trying to change these behaviors and trying to make him FIT within our group I did feel like I lost the patience with him.. and then every other little thing he would do started to wear me down as well on top of the whining....

And really I could have and maybe should have just said after a month that I dont think it is going to work out... but I did give it another 2 months and it even appears like I am going to give it another month of refocusing my efforts on working with the mom and not just the child....


I thank those that have been supportive in here and have given great advice on how to talk to the mom about the issues and hoping that WE can work on them together..... I will see how she reacts to it all and then decide if I need to give a written time period or if she is willing to work with me on it and see how it goes....

Again it takes a VILLAGE to rise a child....
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2011, 04:35 PM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Happiness View Post
And this is NOT true... I CAN control how behaviors are in my home but I can not CHANGE a child's behaviors if he is receiving different messages at home where that type of behavior is ACCEPTABLE... it then becomes a power struggle which is what I am in right now... The only thing that I can really CONTROL as you say is that if my efforts can not change the behavior in my home then I can CONTROL if I put up with it... or terminate it...

I guess we can agree to disagree then because I have several parents who are like the one you are describing and they give their children completely different messages than I give here and the children have no problem separating what the rules are here compared to the rules at home.

I think it is entirely possible to do one thing at daycare despite the millions of different things that occur at a child's home. I don't think it has to be a power struggle.

...and yes, if your efforts are not working, there is no reason why you have to put up with it and should not feel one bit bad about terming this family.


Yes agreed.... but you can't expect a child that whines and gets his way through bribery to not continue to push those buttons with other adults/care givers...

I can see how it can be this way but I guess I have just never had a power struggle happen for as long as you are saying this has been going on.....he must be one deteremined kid to have that kind of stamina.

I mean I know that I have dck that are wonderful at the daycare... but for their parents they are off the walls... (parents tell me all the time) but you can also have the ones that are off the walls at home and daycare....

I know there are kids who are off the wall at home AND at daycare, I have just not had that exerience.


Of course there are reasons.... because he wants the toy the one child is playing with and will NOT settle for anything else... cause he wants to sit beside someone that has already decided to sit beside someone else in circle time... because he has to go down for a nap... because he doesn't do what mom says (unless he is getting something out of it) so why should he do what I ask him to do...... Most of it is because he is used to having his own way... and it has been hard for him to learn to share and that other children like their own space....

Security is not the issue...

We are very routined around here other then his outbrusts... and not to say the others are PERFECT but they are very much good role models...


I am insulted that you would even assume that I have not already been doing this and that I would be "GETTING ON HIM"!!!! I leave my VENTING and RANTING for this board..... not to put out on the children....

I am sorry but if 3 months of effort is telling you that I just don't care about this child... then I can say that you are speaking from experience...

I don't understand this last statement.

I think that after 3 months of putting in a great effort and not seeing much of a change is the reason I came HERE to get advice on how to TERM a family without getting into MUD SLINGING between the mom... which is appears I am already getting in here... "I just don't like him, Your not making a good enough effort to help him... it is not HIM it is YOU"... heck if I wanted that kind of feedback I would have just told his mother all the issues I have... but instead I was trying to be professional about it without getting into a confrontation with her.. (or anyone else for that matter)....

If you were looking for responders to say it is the child's fault, I am sorry I cannot do that. He is a child. We as providers are the adults and if the child is having difficulties, it is because of the adults in his life not him...he is a child. Addressing issues with his mother should have been the first step to working together in helping change his behaviors but since you felt she would have been confrontational then I guess it is probably better that you do term this family and let them find a provider who is a better fit for her children. (I did NOT say there was anything wrong with you.) They obviously just need a provider who is less bothered by the whining and unsupportive parenting.

I implied you do not appear to like him based on YOUR own words....
you called the kids "cry babies" and you said, "well I really dont blame the other kids... when even I dont want to play with them.... " and "I guess I could go on and on tell you all about the little things that really BUG me with the kids" and "cause your kids are annoying and no one likes them in the daycare".

Those are some pretty powerful statements that say alot about how you feel about these children.

I was offering advice and my opinion not trying to be spiteful or insulting. I am sorry if you thought otherwise.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:16 PM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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I think you are at a space where you are having a hard time dealing with how spoiled these kids are. The older child is obviously more taxing so your focus is more on him. The younger one would be difficult as a stand alone problem but is most likely being shadowed by the weight of the older kids behavior.

One thing I think may help you is to tell you that all seasoned providers go through a phase where they have to come to terms with children who are very powerful in their home relationships and try to reconcile that power in child care by exacting their will with untoward behavior.

Part of dealing with it is going through the loss of the idea that the child SHOULD be different and that the power they have with their parents simply can't come into your relationship with the kid. This kid is showing you every day that he WILL vie for that power and you are falling in line with this by reacting the way you are. It's a stress that can eat you alive if you don't step back and reevaluate what you can and can't manage and then ACT on that evaluation.

The thing you haven't tried yet is to lay the hammer down on both the Mom and the kid. You have nothing to loose by setting some strict behavior expectations on both the kids and the parents.

Tell the Mom the truth. Tell her that he is monopolizing your entire day with his refusal to go play and be an equal member in the group. Tell her that he wants you to react to him the way she does and you won't do that. He needs to do what you tell him to do and accept it without fussing. He needs to behave fairly with the other kids. He needs to take the amount of time that is proportional to what she is paying.

Be SPECIFIC and tell her that he is behaving in a way that requires you to one to one him and that if this continues you will either have to raise her rates and hire an assistant just for him or she will need to find different care.

She will not choose to pay more and she will most likely not do a single thing different at home. What she will do is get the first inkling that she and the child need serious help. It may take five "you's" to get this across to her and by the time she starts to GET it you won't be making any money off of them. Your only obligation to them is to give them the first of many refusals to allow him to behave like this around you.

Soon the school will tell him.. the teachers... his before and after school care providers.. everywhere he goes they will tell her until she is forced to get help. Her acceptance of the results of her parenting and his delays will only come to her in individual reactions.. in her dealing with it as one person after another says "no" to them both.

Your role in this is just to be ONE of the ones to say no.

With the kid... try not to take his behavior personally. He didn't spoil himself. He is a product of his environment and he is doing what HE knows works. Show him it doesn't work at all ever in your house. If you have to declare war on the whining and control then DO it. Be STERN with him and follow through. If he can't be civil with you and the kids then he has to be on his own.

When he is being sweet and reasonable love him up. SHOW him how you want him to be. SHOW him how you want him to talk. Stick with every single prompt and don't QUIT until he does what you want him to do.

When he acts up around the Mom at drop off and pick up TELL her you don't like that. Start the second he arrives and give him the stink eye when he starts and DISCIPLINE him in front of the Mom. Tell HER what you want and expect it when she is there too.

If you don't have the energy to take them all on then give notice and let them be on their way. You have made a critical error in not telling her what he is doing in your home that doesn't work so don't be surprised if her reaction to this is a startle response and then anger.

If you want help in how to do this with as little fuss and muss as possible then your only way out is to just tell her you are sizing down or making changes and that you can no longer provide services. She will bargain with you for a bit and then most likely be upset. You have little to no chance of her being cool with it and this not getting tense before they go.

If you want to make an impact on them then tell them the truth and require the changes. She won't change but she WILL take your truth with her into their future.
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:01 PM
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MarinaVanessa MarinaVanessa is offline
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Originally Posted by Happiness View Post
And this is NOT true... I CAN control how behaviors are in my home but I can not CHANGE a child's behaviors if he is receiving different messages at home where that type of behavior is ACCEPTABLE... it then becomes a power struggle which is what I am in right now... The only thing that I can really CONTROL as you say is that if my efforts can not change the behavior in my home then I can CONTROL if I put up with it... or terminate it...
I'd just like to chime in and say that it can be done. The kids that I have are all different with me than they are at home with their parents. I don't condone "whining" or crying for things. If they cry or whine at all for whatever reason they go to the "crying corner" which is a little quiet corner where they can sit at until they stop whining or crying. I always tell them that they can cry as much as they want to but crying is only allowed in that area. It's an additional "center" that we have here. Because they know that whining and crying doesn't bother me and will not stop the current activity or get them an closer to what they are trying to accomplish, they all eventually learn that whining and "being a cry-baby" doesn't work and eventually they stop doing it here. Even my 1 year-olds have learned better and I'm currently "guiding" my own 10 mo.

When we go out on walks ... they ALL behave, when they play with the toys ... they ALL behave, when they want something ... they ALL behave and use their words (as well as they can vocalize them) to tell me what they want. If they whine, complain, tattle, cry or use their words and voice in any other way than what is expected, they don't get what they want. It's by no means simple. It takes a lot of effort, a lot of persistance, a lot of consistency and a deaf-ear to see improvements but it can be done. The key is to follow though each and every time and never lose your cool.

I have a 2yo dcb that cried the entire day of his birthday party this past July ... the entire day. He cries so much that he makes himself cough and eventually vomit. He does it at the gym daycare (friends of ours take their kids there too), he does it at the curch nursery (my SIL volunteers) and he does it at home (I've seen it). I can only assume that he does it in other placed also. He does NOT do it here. At the gym and at church their protocol is to simply call the parent and have them pick the child up (which is what the child wants ... to be with mommy or daddy) and at home he is given every whim and desire. Not here buddy, sorry . Only the kids that use good manners get the special treat here and that does not include crying or whining. It does work, trust me. Anyone here can tell you that their little angel DCK's act like little hellions once mommy and daddy show up.

By all means don't take it negatively, we're here to help afterall. We're here for you to give you insight, advice and ideas. Welcome to the forum BTW. I hope you come to enjoy the forum as much as I do. This is the only forum that I participate in and I absolutely LOVE it here .
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