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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Would You Change Your Hours?
Lucy 10:10 PM 11-01-2013
Sorry, I re-read this when I was done, and I tend to get way too wordy!!!

When this family started with me 9 years ago (9 yr old boy and 5 yr old girl), I was closed at 5:00. I told mom that in the interview, and she said she didn't get off till 5:00. But I liked them and needed new clients, so I said it would be fine. So for 9 years, I've been open till 5:30. My other kids all leave between 4:15 and 5:00. (Well, the last one is always gone by 4:50/4:55, but scheduled as 5:00.)

Well, one day last week mom told me she would be needing to get the kids early that Friday for some reason, and she casually threw in, "DCD and I both get off an hour early on Friday anyway, so it'll work out fine." It has bugged me ever since, because I wasn't sure if she meant they were off early THAT Friday, or EVERY Friday. So all this week I thought about it, and I came up with a plan to call her work today (Friday) at 4:30 and ask for her - just to see if they said no, she leaves early on Fridays or something. Well, I got my answer when a recording came on that said their hours were M-Th till 5:00, and Fri till 4:00.

It has bugged me all evening. So EVERY Friday, she goes HOME for an hour, while I have her 2 kids - ONLY her 2 kids - for an extra 35 to 40 minutes longer than any of my other kids. And she KNOWS they're the last ones here! Ugh ... it has just stuck in my craw. (Just what is a craw, anyway?? lol)

So I'm thinking about telling her that starting Jan 1, I'm going to close on Fridays at 4:45. I'd like to say 4:30, because that's really when she'd be able to get here on Fridays, considering she normally comes at 5:30 --- but she would soon figure out that I have 2 other kids still here past that time. If she came at 4:45, she might just figure that the other mom runs perpetually late.

I'd likely have to lower her rate a little bit. Afterall, this would be 6 1/2 hours less care per month (considering it's 2 kids). And besides, I can't reduce someone's hours without giving them something in return.

If you're wondering why I don't just tell her 5:00, it's because this is a chatty mom. I do like her, and love her kids, but she shows up at 5:30 ON THE DOT, and we end up talking for 10 minutes. If I let her come at 5:00, it won't really allow me to be DONE with my day by 4:55 (when the other mom comes). So that's the thinking behind that.

OMG, I've talked enough. So what would you do??? Would you be tempted to change your hours for Fridays? Pro's and Con's? How would you tell her? Thanks!!
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TwinKristi 10:47 PM 11-01-2013
Hmmmm, I'm not sure I would want her to think you have 2 other kids there always at her pickup time "late" when you're supposedly closing earlier. I think she may be irritated that they can always be late ya know? As far as reducing the price, did you increase the original price for them to stay til 5:30 daily? If so than I would reduce by a very minimal amount but considering for the last 9yrs they've had Fridays off early and done everything kid-free while you have them later than anyone else in your care (and on a Friday!!) I wouldn't deduct a dime from their fees. You did a favor for them and instead of saying "except Friday" they've taken advantage of your kindness for nine years. I would be upset personally. I would tell her you close AT 5pm on the dot. Not chit chat til 5:15 but doors closed at 5pm. Why would she get there at any later than 4:30pm if she's off at 4, ya know? I normally wouldn't care what mom does while I have their child. Go shopping, work, sight see... Whatever! But when you extend your hours especially to accommodate their needs and they take advantage I find it different. I wouldn't stay open late so a mom could get her nails done. She can do that during your normal business time if that's what they want.
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Lucy 11:03 PM 11-01-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Hmmmm, I'm not sure I would want her to think you have 2 other kids there always at her pickup time "late" when you're supposedly closing earlier. I think she may be irritated that they can always be late ya know? I get what you're saying, but don't think it would be an issue with this mom. I can't explain her personality, but I've known her 9 years, and I wouldn't be too worried about this being an issue. I honestly don't think she'd give it a 2nd thought if she comes at 4:45 and the other mom shows up 5 min later. And really, if she does see a pattern and thinks that she'll just start showing up at 4:50 as well, that would still be fine. And another way of thinking of it is -- she can't really go home for 15 minutes and then come get the kids (well, she could, but it'd be silly), so she'd probably end up coming at 4:30 anyway. Then there'd be no speculation about the other kids still being here.

As far as reducing the price, did you increase the original price for them to stay til 5:30 daily? No, because they come the same NUMBER of hours as my other kids, it's just that she starts later and picks up later. But reducing Friday by 45 minutes would be a REDUCTION in hours. Not sure if I explained it well??

If so than I would reduce by a very minimal amount but considering for the last 9yrs they've had Fridays off early and done everything kid-free while you have them later than anyone else in your care (and on a Friday!!) I wouldn't deduct a dime from their fees. You did a favor for them and instead of saying "except Friday" they've taken advantage of your kindness for nine years. To be fair, I don't know when the Friday thing started. For all I know, it could've been within the past year. I'm not trying to defend her, just covering all the bases. But I do get what you're saying. That's why it has stuck in my craw LOL!

I would be upset personally. I would tell her you close AT 5pm on the dot. Not chit chat til 5:15 but doors closed at 5pm. Why would she get there at any later than 4:30pm if she's off at 4, ya know? I normally wouldn't care what mom does while I have their child. Go shopping, work, sight see... Whatever! But when you extend your hours especially to accommodate their needs and they take advantage I find it different. I wouldn't stay open late so a mom could get her nails done. She can do that during your normal business time if that's what they want.
Thanks for your thoughts! Responses in red above.
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Laurel 04:16 AM 11-02-2013
I think I would just say something like "I always thought you worked until 5:00 on Friday and you mentioned the other day that you got off earlier. In that case, aren't you now able to get here at my regular closing hour? I really haven't wanted to stay open later but did it to help you out. I can still do in on Mon. thru Thurs. but no longer on Fri. if you can get here earlier.

Laurel
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MyAngels 06:56 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I think I would just say something like "I always thought you worked until 5:00 on Friday and you mentioned the other day that you got off earlier. In that case, aren't you now able to get here at my regular closing hour? I really haven't wanted to stay open later but did it to help you out. I can still do in on Mon. thru Thurs. but no longer on Fri. if you can get here earlier.

Laurel


Chances are she hasn't even thought about it from your POV. Since you've known her for so long and she's overall a good client she'll most likely just begin picking up earlier and won't even think about any reduction in fees. Since you didn't increase their fees in the beginning for more hours then there is really no reason to decrease them now.

I'm thinking of my own long-term clients and how they would react and every one of them would happily begin picking up earlier in this situation and would not expect any reduction in fees.
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JoseyJo 10:46 AM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I think I would just say something like "I always thought you worked until 5:00 on Friday and you mentioned the other day that you got off earlier. In that case, aren't you now able to get here at my regular closing hour? I really haven't wanted to stay open later but did it to help you out. I can still do in on Mon. thru Thurs. but no longer on Fri. if you can get here earlier.

Laurel
I would do this- no reduction. She is taking advantage of you
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Ups_and-downs 01:14 PM 11-02-2013
Like the others mentioned, I would not reduce the fee. I offer 9 hrs of care per family. If they go over that time or pick up after closing they still pay late fee even if it doesn't pass the 9 hrs. You were very generous for letting the pick up be later with no fee. Hope it all works out for you in your favor.
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Lucy 02:35 PM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:


Chances are she hasn't even thought about it from your POV. Since you've known her for so long and she's overall a good client she'll most likely just begin picking up earlier and won't even think about any reduction in fees. Since you didn't increase their fees in the beginning for more hours then there is really no reason to decrease them now.

I'm thinking of my own long-term clients and how they would react and every one of them would happily begin picking up earlier in this situation and would not expect any reduction in fees.
It wasn't more hours though. Same number of hours as everyone else. But I get what you're saying. Thanks!
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littlemissmuffet 11:05 PM 11-02-2013
I don't look after children unless the parents are at work or in school, so I would have no problem saying "Sue, since you're done work at 4pm on Fridays, I expect you to be here by 4:30 to have the kids picked up - there's no reason for them to be here any later. This goes into effect immediately, and there will be no discount to your current fee." Parents these days are so self-absorbed - no consideration for their childcare providers or even their own children. Sad.
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julie 11:45 PM 11-02-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
It wasn't more hours though. Same number of hours as everyone else. But I get what you're saying. Thanks!
It still increases the hours in YOUR day, regardless of how many hours they attend, so no, I would not decrease their fees. That's why you had an original time of 5:00pm, right and they asked to pick up later than that? I would do what Laurel suggested.
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WImom 06:10 AM 11-03-2013
Does she pay more than the other parents because you are open past 5pm for her? If she does than discount her, if not I wouldn't give her a discount. I wouldn't reduce your hours BUT I would send out a notice that you've changed to only offering care during working hours. Maybe mention to her about her comment and let her know she would need to pick up at 4:30 not 5:30 on Friday's.
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WImom 06:11 AM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I don't look after children unless the parents are at work or in school, so I would have no problem saying "Sue, since you're done work at 4pm on Fridays, I expect you to be here by 4:30 to have the kids picked up - there's no reason for them to be here any later. This goes into effect immediately, and there will be no discount to your current fee." Parents these days are so self-absorbed - no consideration for their childcare providers or even their own children. Sad.

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momofboys 01:41 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Sorry, I re-read this when I was done, and I tend to get way too wordy!!!

When this family started with me 9 years ago (9 yr old boy and 5 yr old girl), I was closed at 5:00. I told mom that in the interview, and she said she didn't get off till 5:00. But I liked them and needed new clients, so I said it would be fine. So for 9 years, I've been open till 5:30. My other kids all leave between 4:15 and 5:00. (Well, the last one is always gone by 4:50/4:55, but scheduled as 5:00.)

Well, one day last week mom told me she would be needing to get the kids early that Friday for some reason, and she casually threw in, "DCD and I both get off an hour early on Friday anyway, so it'll work out fine." It has bugged me ever since, because I wasn't sure if she meant they were off early THAT Friday, or EVERY Friday. So all this week I thought about it, and I came up with a plan to call her work today (Friday) at 4:30 and ask for her - just to see if they said no, she leaves early on Fridays or something. Well, I got my answer when a recording came on that said their hours were M-Th till 5:00, and Fri till 4:00.

It has bugged me all evening. So EVERY Friday, she goes HOME for an hour, while I have her 2 kids - ONLY her 2 kids - for an extra 35 to 40 minutes longer than any of my other kids. And she KNOWS they're the last ones here! Ugh ... it has just stuck in my craw. (Just what is a craw, anyway?? lol)

So I'm thinking about telling her that starting Jan 1, I'm going to close on Fridays at 4:45. I'd like to say 4:30, because that's really when she'd be able to get here on Fridays, considering she normally comes at 5:30 --- but she would soon figure out that I have 2 other kids still here past that time. If she came at 4:45, she might just figure that the other mom runs perpetually late.

I'd likely have to lower her rate a little bit. Afterall, this would be 6 1/2 hours less care per month (considering it's 2 kids). And besides, I can't reduce someone's hours without giving them something in return.

If you're wondering why I don't just tell her 5:00, it's because this is a chatty mom. I do like her, and love her kids, but she shows up at 5:30 ON THE DOT, and we end up talking for 10 minutes. If I let her come at 5:00, it won't really allow me to be DONE with my day by 4:55 (when the other mom comes). So that's the thinking behind that.

OMG, I've talked enough. So what would you do??? Would you be tempted to change your hours for Fridays? Pro's and Con's? How would you tell her? Thanks!!
I would actually change the hours sooner - why wait until January? I would make the new hours take effect as early as Nov 15th or something. It is none of her business is Suzy or Billy are there until 4:50 - I would change pick up on Fri to 4:30 for her.
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momofboys 01:42 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I think I would just say something like "I always thought you worked until 5:00 on Friday and you mentioned the other day that you got off earlier. In that case, aren't you now able to get here at my regular closing hour? I really haven't wanted to stay open later but did it to help you out. I can still do in on Mon. thru Thurs. but no longer on Fri. if you can get here earlier.

Laurel

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MCC 02:28 PM 11-03-2013
In regards to lowering your rates...I would not. I just changed my hours from 7:30-5:30 to 7:15-5:15, not a single parent batted an eye, and no one asked about me lowering my rates.
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lovemykidstoo 04:15 PM 11-03-2013
I had the same issue about 8 years ago. I had a mom that worked on Fridays and her son was with me from 7:30 - 5:30. Well, I only had him at the time on Fridays so this was a big deal. She told me one day that her hours were cut on Fridays and she was getting out at 12:00 from now on. I thought awesome! I'll be out at noon or 12:30 on Fridays. So, the next week, I said, so see you at 12:30 and she looked at me like huh? She said, oh I had plans. She said that she was still going to pick him up at 5:30 (which is my exact closing time), she had no plans of coming early ever to get him on Friday. Ahhh, he was my only one. There was no way I was going to watch her son all day until 5;30 every single week while she was not working. I did compromise though, I watched him until 1:00. That gave her an hour to do whatever before picking him up and got me out of work by 1:00 which was great! I did give her a 1/2 day rate though because it was such a big amount of hours. For you, I would not discount at all.
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Lucy 05:50 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
In regards to lowering your rates...I would not. I just changed my hours from 7:30-5:30 to 7:15-5:15, not a single parent batted an eye, and no one asked about me lowering my rates.
That's the same amount of hours - 15 min earlier start time and 15 min earlier end time. Still 10 hours either way.

Nice to hear that nobody minded the hours changing. But didn't you have any with a situation where they get off at 5:00 and have a 30 min drive?

Is anybody coming the extra 15 min earlier in the morning? If they were still able to get to work on time when you had 7:30 drop-off, do they really need to come at 7:15?

Just curious
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Lucy 05:59 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I had the same issue about 8 years ago. I had a mom that worked on Fridays and her son was with me from 7:30 - 5:30. Well, I only had him at the time on Fridays so this was a big deal. She told me one day that her hours were cut on Fridays and she was getting out at 12:00 from now on. I thought awesome! I'll be out at noon or 12:30 on Fridays. So, the next week, I said, so see you at 12:30 and she looked at me like huh? She said, oh I had plans. She said that she was still going to pick him up at 5:30 (which is my exact closing time), she had no plans of coming early ever to get him on Friday. Ahhh, he was my only one. There was no way I was going to watch her son all day until 5;30 every single week while she was not working. I did compromise though, I watched him until 1:00. That gave her an hour to do whatever before picking him up and got me out of work by 1:00 which was great! I did give her a 1/2 day rate though because it was such a big amount of hours. For you, I would not discount at all.
That's funny.... and sounds like this mom. I do really like her and they are great parents, but I think they are of the mindset that I am being paid for X hours each day, so the kids will BE HERE those exact hours.

I also think that maybe they have thought about it kind of like ... they don't want to ask for less hours because I would be making less money off of them, and they don't want to do that to me. Did that make sense? I think in their mind, they feel like they don't want to take that extra hour of business away from me. They're not the type that are constantly working against me like I've had other parents do. These are currently my longest term family (had one before for 12 years, but these are my longest right now), and they're more of my extended family thru DC.

Again, totally not making excuses for them or trying to ask for advice from you guys and then poo-poo it all. Just painting the picture of this family. They do irritate me a lot because they have the kids here from their exact start time to their exact pick up time, and the kids are here when they have days off, etc, etc (they pay either way), but they are good parents and I have no complaints of a business sense.

That's actually what makes this harder. I can't be all stern and tell them I've discovered their "lie" to me and now they must pick up at 4:30. I have a better relationship with them than that. I don't know.... I'm leaning toward the January 1st 4:45 closure on Fridays. Less confrontational!! I take care of my mother with Alzheimer's, so I'll just say I need that extra time (even though it's only 45 min!) Ugh, it's so hard.
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MCC 07:12 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
That's the same amount of hours - 15 min earlier start time and 15 min earlier end time. Still 10 hours either way.

Nice to hear that nobody minded the hours changing. But didn't you have any with a situation where they get off at 5:00 and have a 30 min drive?

Is anybody coming the extra 15 min earlier in the morning? If they were still able to get to work on time when you had 7:30 drop-off, do they really need to come at 7:15?

Just curious
Oh my... I changed it to 8:15! That's what I get for trying to type with my 2 year old in the room. I'm now open 8:15-5:15, so it's a half hour shorter. It is impacting one family, who gets off at 5, but they have only picked up later than 5:15 once or twice.

I was just saying, I wouldn't worry about charging her any less. Have you raised your rates at all over the past 9 years?
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Lucy 07:57 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by MCC:
Oh my... I changed it to 8:15! That's what I get for trying to type with my 2 year old in the room. I'm now open 8:15-5:15, so it's a half hour shorter. It is impacting one family, who gets off at 5, but they have only picked up later than 5:15 once or twice.

I was just saying, I wouldn't worry about charging her any less. Have you raised your rates at all over the past 9 years?
So you were open 10 hours, now 9 hours. You reduced by one hour. (Lucky you, by the way!!)

And yes... I've raised my rates. It's actually hard to determine though, because we went from just the boy for his first 5 years being here full time. Then when he went in Kindergarten, that's when I started watching his baby sister. So he was half day and she was full day. The next year, he went to 1st grade, so he was before & after school, and she was full day. Then 4 years later, she's now half day and he's only before & after school. Etc., etc. So it's hard to pin down any kind of percent or flat amount that I've raised their rates. But whenever their situation changed, I took that opportunity to "raise" their rates, even though they may have in reality gone DOWN due to less hours, I reduced LESS than what I could have. That was my way of technically raising their rates, while giving them a lower total amount. Does that even make ANY sense?? lol. Hard to explain.
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TheGoodLife 08:12 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Lucy:
So you were open 10 hours, now 9 hours. You reduced by one hour. (Lucky you, by the way!!)

And yes... I've raised my rates. It's actually hard to determine though, because we went from just the boy for his first 5 years being here full time. Then when he went in Kindergarten, that's when I started watching his baby sister. So he was half day and she was full day. The next year, he went to 1st grade, so he was before & after school, and she was full day. Then 4 years later, she's now half day and he's only before & after school. Etc., etc. So it's hard to pin down any kind of percent or flat amount that I've raised their rates. But whenever their situation changed, I took that opportunity to "raise" their rates, even though they may have in reality gone DOWN due to less hours, I reduced LESS than what I could have. That was my way of technically raising their rates, while giving them a lower total amount. Does that even make ANY sense?? lol. Hard to explain.
Unless you do hourly rates, I wouldn't lower their rate. I have a family here from 8:30-4:30 and they pay the same as my 7:30-5:30 would. I just do daily rates (unless it's overtime- more than 10 hours, or early/late times). I say offer them the new PU time based on work hours and keep the same rate. Sounds like you've been a great provider for them and you are worth it!
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Lucy 08:13 PM 11-03-2013
Originally Posted by Mama2Bella:
Unless you do hourly rates, I wouldn't lower their rate. I have a family here from 8:30-4:30 and they pay the same as my 7:30-5:30 would. I just do daily rates (unless it's overtime- more than 10 hours, or early/late times). I say offer them the new PU time based on work hours and keep the same rate. Sounds like you've been a great provider for them and you are worth it!
Thank you!
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Lucy 10:26 AM 11-04-2013
The way I bill for this family (not a very common method, but it has worked for this family for 9 years, and for my other family I've had for 6 years - everybody else is weekly) is that we figure out what it will be for the whole calendar year, and then average that entire year's worth of fees, and they pay that averaged amount once a month. As new kids came after these two families, I went strictly with weekly fees. Once these two families eventually leave, I won't do this again. But it works fine for now, and I have no problem with it.

Ok, so what I'm going to do, (I think?? LOL... I haven't typed up the notice yet, so my mind could change before I actually do it!!) anyway, so what I *think* I'll do is when I change their amount for 2014 due to the fact that their youngest will begin 1st grade next September, is I'll take that opportunity to include in the letter the fact that I'll now be closing at 4:45 on Fridays. Their new amount won't reflect any deduction for that earlier closing time on Fridays, but OVERALL their fee will go down, because their youngest will only be before/after school for the final 4 months of 2014, as opposed to half day Kindergarten as she is now.

I know that's confusing, but I've done it since the older boy started Kindergarten (he's now in 5th), and it really isn't that hard for me to figure out each year. Plus I've always been good in math.

I think I'll have to verbally tell her before I give her the letter though. It just doesn't seem right to spring that on her in a letter without even bringing it up in person.... considering we talk outside for 5-10 minutes every day. I'd feel like a chump never having told her verbally, then having her find out by reading the letter at home. OR... if she happened to open it right as I give it to her! I'd feel like a big chicken.

So anyway, thanks for your input, ladies! Sorry it's all so confusing.
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