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  #1  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:36 PM
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We have a pretty iron clad toilet training policy, due to having many many issues with potty training in the past. In addition to requiring a child to go accident free for two-weeks before wearing underwear, we also don't allow pull-ups or diapers to be worn if they are being used just like diapers. We ask parents to train at home, and when they think their child is ready to full train - then we will start here

We have a 2.5 yo DCB whose Mom has been pushing PT for a long time. We asked her to start working with him over a weekend (March 2). The following week we were working with him, but he was totally dependent on us bringing him and never recognized the need to go by himself. He was able to release a stream of urine, if you place him on the potty - but he does not go unless you take him. (I understand some providers practice this kind of reminding, but we want children using the toilet without being constantly reminded).

He has yet to use the toilet by himself, nearly three weeks later. (was out for spring break, and one week was on vacation for 3 days). He will hold his bladder, but will not recognize the sensation of needing to eliminate by himself. And winds up wetting his pants (underwear covered by pull-ups).

This monday morning DCM brought him in wearing just underwear. Once I realized this, I looked through the extra clothes she sent for the day, and there were NO PULL-UPS. But there were three changes of underwear, I guess in her mind I would have still been putting him in uncovered underwear after the 3rd accident ?!?!?!? I have a few spares that I keep, so I put him in one. He wet, and after that I covered his second pair of underwear with a diaper (I didn't want to waste my few spare pull-ups).

So I told her when she came that he isn't using the toilet for us at all, and she said she would send him with a pull-up to cover his underwear.

The next day she sends him with a pull-up on top, and he didn't use the toilet at all that day either. So when she comes to pick him up, she says "what do you want me to send him in, pull-ups or just underwear or both. He has come so far I don't want to put him back in diapers".

I am not the best with confrontation, but I said "If you feel like doing the laundry, then you are free to send him each morning in underwear covered with a pull-up, but if he wets I am going to put him in a diaper" She just kind of laughed and said "so you won't put a new underwear/pull-up on him ?" I said "not if he is using them like diapers".

DCM didn't show up this morning, and when I called she said she was sick. I really feel like she is upset. I will be honest and say I really wouldn't care if this family left (dealing with this, some severe & unacknowledged speech issues, and mom is a teacher who doesn't pay to hold her spot over the summer) - but I don't like anyone to feel like I was rude to them.

I feel like she thinks I was rude to her, but at the same time I'm not going to let a child wear underwear when he is using them like a diaper (even if they are covered). I don't want to change wet underwear all day, and I think underwear are a privilege for children who are using the toilet. He is getting the perk of wearing underwear without doing any of the work.

If he were using the toilet even 1/2 of the time, I would be singing a different tune. But he does not use the toilet at all, and has no business wearing underwear IMHO. But do you all think I was offensive to DCM ?
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:47 PM
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I don't think you were offensive in the least. Especially since the parents are well aware of your potty training policy! She isn't the special one who gets to have different rules.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:50 PM
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I don't think you were offensive in the least. Especially since the parents are well aware of your potty training policy! She isn't the special one who gets to have different rules.
I just feel like she is putting me in the position to have to be that way.

Okay, another question - would you (and everyone else who reads this) let him continue to wear underwear (covered of course) if he was using them as diapers ?
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:53 PM
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I just feel like she is putting me in the position to have to be that way.

Okay, another question - would you (and everyone else who reads this) let him continue to wear underwear (covered of course) if he was using them as diapers ?
No way, if he.is going to have continuous accidents he needs pull ups or diapers but NO underwear.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:54 PM
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I wouldn't continue to let him wear them either.

And I'm glad you said something to Mom. I would have loved to have said that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:00 PM
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I just feel like she is putting me in the position to have to be that way.

Okay, another question - would you (and everyone else who reads this) let him continue to wear underwear (covered of course) if he was using them as diapers ?
It IS irritating when they try to really push the policies you have set in place.

No, I wouldn't change them out of underwear and put new ones on. However, I do have one that wears Pull-Ups and uses them like diapers. That child changes their own Pull-Up every single day. If this child is capable of changing the underwear (and placing it into a plastic grocery bag) and putting on a new Pull-Up then I sure would!
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:01 PM
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I wouldn't continue to let him wear them either.

And I'm glad you said something to Mom. I would have loved to have said that.
I never have the backbone to say things like that, but it has just passed the point of ridiculous. "He has come so far"... no he hasn't. He has showed zero progress.

8 weeks until summer. 8 weeks until summer. 8 weeks until summer. And guess who certainly be full in the fall.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:05 PM
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I never have the backbone to say things like that, but it has just passed the point of ridiculous. "He has come so far"... no he hasn't. He has showed zero progress.

8 weeks until summer. 8 weeks until summer. 8 weeks until summer. And guess who certainly be full in the fall.
It's always SOOOOO nice to magically not have room in the future for a high maintenance parent when they leave on their own accord for whatever reason.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:12 PM
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I love how parents don't care if they have accidents all over the floor at daycare, but when it comes to their home the kid stays in pull ups/diapers. At least thats what I get here.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:24 PM
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Was it offensive to mom?

Probably. But only because she's obviously off in lala land about how he's actually doing.

I'd tell her plainly:
- he doesn't stay dry
- he doesn't ask to go here
- there is obviously no difference to him between diapers and pull ups
- having wet underwear inside a wet pull up doesn't bother him at all

I am concerned that having him wet so many pairs of underwear a day is going to desensitize him to ever feeling the need to keep them dry. It's not a big deal, he'll get there when he's ready, but I feel pushing him so hard before that time comes will only hinder his success in the future. I believe diapers are what should be used until he shows progress with awareness and intent, then pull ups should you choose to use them while he transitions, with underwear being the ultimate reward but only for success.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM
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I just feel like she is putting me in the position to have to be that way.

Okay, another question - would you (and everyone else who reads this) let him continue to wear underwear (covered of course) if he was using them as diapers ?
I wouldn't put him in anything but diapers. My ds has just started showing an interest in "big boy underwear" but the first day I put him in them he peed without telling me he had to go. He knows when he has to go because he will hold himself but I told him no underwear until he's ready to tell me he needs to go. I'm not even going with the pull-ups this time around. Used them for maybe a week or so with first ds but he used them like diapers for poop only. As soon as I put him in underwear he didn't like how it felt so he started going on the toilet.

To me, I see no point in covering underwear with a diaper unless it's during nap time because that can be a little tougher for them to wake up and go. Otherwise, I'd say underwear is a privilege they have to earn when they are ready to use the toilet on their own.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:29 PM
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strongly agree with willow. letting boy continue using underwear when you know good and well that he isnt going to potty independently is setting him up for failure, desensitizing him to the feel of wet/soiled cotton. putting him in underwear covered with a pull up is giving this mom the feeling that she is sucessfully potty training her child, pull ups feel like progress to a parent, thats why they are so popular. i have a kid here that has been in pull ups for 18 months because mom doesnt want to "regress" to diapers. i dont really care because this now 3.5 year old changes her own soiled pull ups, there is nothing i can do to change this moms mind, and this is the only issue from an otherwise perfect daycare family.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:36 PM
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strongly agree with willow. letting boy continue using underwear when you know good and well that he isnt going to potty independently is setting him up for failure, desensitizing him to the feel of wet/soiled cotton. putting him in underwear covered with a pull up is giving this mom the feeling that she is sucessfully potty training her child, pull ups feel like progress to a parent, thats why they are so popular. i have a kid here that has been in pull ups for 18 months because mom doesnt want to "regress" to diapers. i dont really care because this now 3.5 year old changes her own soiled pull ups, there is nothing i can do to change this moms mind, and this is the only issue from an otherwise perfect daycare family.
Holy marthas I'd like to holler that from the mountain tops some days lol. At first I was like what the heck is the obsession??? Had kids, tried em', but they didn't hold poo for beans, cost a butt load more and certainly didn't inspire much in the way of progress...I just didn't get it.

The light bulb eventually went off after seeing enough parents fart around with them forever and it was like OOOOOOHhhhhhh now I get it, it's not about your kiddo at all, it's actually totally about you and what you're THINKING/HOPING is happening here! It's weird because for some parents seems like they're almost seen as some weird badge of honor....MY kid is in pullups, isn't that awesome that he's so advanced for his age??! (while fast forward a year he still can't keep them dry for beans and now screams every time he is even asked to sit on the toilet )
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:48 PM
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Holy marthas I'd like to holler that from the mountain tops some days lol. At first I was like what the heck is the obsession??? Had kids, tried em', but they didn't hold poo for beans, cost a butt load more and certainly didn't inspire much in the way of progress...I just didn't get it.

The light bulb eventually went off after seeing enough parents fart around with them forever and it was like OOOOOOHhhhhhh now I get it, it's not about your kiddo at all, it's actually totally about you and what you're THINKING/HOPING is happening here! It's weird because for some parents seems like they're almost seen as some weird badge of honor....MY kid is in pullups, isn't that awesome that he's so advanced for his age??! (while fast forward a year he still can't keep them dry for beans and now screams every time he is even asked to sit on the toilet )
My mom and I have a running joke that pull-ups should have a one-box limit. I actually encourage my DCP to potty train without pull-ups. They are a glorified diaper & a joke. The only way I think they are acceptable is a for a child who is not yet BM trained, but is peeing on the toilet. And that period of time is usually relatively short.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:49 PM
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I am convinced that pullups slow down potty training. They are just a way for diaper companies to squeeze a last chunk of money out of you!!
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:16 AM
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I am convinced that pullups slow down potty training. They are just a way for diaper companies to squeeze a last chunk of money out of you!!
I agree and I don't allow them here at all. I potty train in diapers. The sides are stetchy enough these days you can pull them up and down if you want to.

To the OP: This child doesn't sound ready at all to be potty learning. I think you did the right thing and Mom needs to realize that there is much more work to be done.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:05 AM
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At this point I probably would not get my knickers in a twist over saying something similar to a parent. I am a provider who will give reminder the first couple of weeks, but certainly not at timed intervals. And since we have pottying/diapering on the schedule we have natural places in our day when everyone "tries." That said, if a child was clearly not showing any interest, using the pull up as a diaper, etc. then I would be in the same position. I know you have been talking to the parent as this has been ongoing, and the very bottom line is that she does not care what your policy is or why you are having issues.
I wouldn't waste any more sleep over it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:37 AM
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I wish parents would listen to their provider when they start potty training. Most providers have done it with their own kids and dozens more. We KNOW what works!
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:02 AM
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I love how parents don't care if they have accidents all over the floor at daycare, but when it comes to their home the kid stays in pull ups/diapers. At least thats what I get here.
I have the two week rule here as well. I have a 4-1/2 yr. old that wears pull-ups (He's 50 lbs., the size 6 diapers were not working). She wants ME to put him in underwear (after confessing to me that he has NEVER ONCE pooped in the potty). She thinks if he wears underwear he won't be as lazy, and ask to go to the potty. He RARELY asks to use the potty, I always have to make him go and sometimes to spite me he says, "I'm peeing right now". I told Mom she needs to work with him first, and when he's accident free, I'd be more than happy to switch to underwear. She refused to do the work at home (too busy of a schedule, doesn't want her house messy, whatever..." He was recently evaluated by the school district & is going to be going to school for Early Childhood Education, and they said to send him in underwear She basically said that in a giddy manner... as if to say some sucker is finally going to do the potty training for her. Some people amaze me.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:14 AM
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Two years ago, about a week before dcg turned two, her mom told me, "When she turns two we'll be potty training her, so she'll start coming in underwear on her birthday." um, yeah it doesn't work that way. I stood up to them and said "NO. You can't do that. She needs to be in diapers until she's made significant progress at home." She had shown zero signs of potty training readiness. Absolutely none at all. I knew darn well that it wasn't going to work!

She started coming in pull-ups and for over a YEAR the parents kept telling me that she was potty training at home, doing really well, can she please come in underwear. Everytime they brought it up I told them that no, she couldn't, because I was seeing NONE of the signs that she was ready for training here.

In the meantime, her behavior spiraled down and down. What was once a very sweet, happy, sensitive child, became anxious, fearful, and completely oversensitive. She would cry when I had her sit on the potty or asked her about it or when she needed changed. And she displayed ZERO readiness signs.

Through careful questioning I eventually figured out that her parents were giving her time outs for peeing in her pants or pull-up, possibly spanking for it though I didn't get a clear answer on that. They took her potty every thirty minutes while she was home. They would make her sit until she went sometimes.

There came a point where I backed off the potty training here 100%. Months and months went by. Parents started claiming that she was 100% trained at home and on the weekends but daycare ruined it. They just didn't get that she wasn't trained, they were just torturing the poor child every 30 minutes.

And then last May, all of a sudden, she started telling me that she needed to go, and then started going on her own, both poop and pee, and within two weeks was in underwear here and never had an accident.

Oh, look! Potty training! It happened when she was ready! How amazing! And it only took her 1-2 weeks. *I* know that. But the parents claim it took almost a year and a half. I feel so sad for her, and her brother. I really, honestly did bang my head on the wall a few times during this happy little process.

This is the family that really smoothed out my daycare potty training policy for me I don't allow pull-ups here anymore. I won't push it until *I* see that they are ready for it. I talk, and mention, and offer, and explain what they will feel in their bodies and we work on the other skills (down pants, up pants, language skills, body awareness, hand washing...) and then, bam, they train when they are ready.

The main thing I do differently is that I am willing to try a child who is still using diapers like diapers but mom says they are fine when naked/ in underwear. My DD potty trained like that (trained while naked, but used a diaper when it was on) and I've had another dcb train like that, so I'm willing to entertain it. But I don't announce that ahead of time
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:16 AM
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strongly agree with willow. letting boy continue using underwear when you know good and well that he isnt going to potty independently is setting him up for failure, desensitizing him to the feel of wet/soiled cotton. putting him in underwear covered with a pull up is giving this mom the feeling that she is sucessfully potty training her child, pull ups feel like progress to a parent, thats why they are so popular. i have a kid here that has been in pull ups for 18 months because mom doesnt want to "regress" to diapers. i dont really care because this now 3.5 year old changes her own soiled pull ups, there is nothing i can do to change this moms mind, and this is the only issue from an otherwise perfect daycare family.
I have a child that has been in Pull-Ups for the full year that he has been here. He is no where close to potty training.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:28 AM
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Pull ups are a joke, I won't use them here at all.

Blandino- I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in another thread of yours that was very similar. Is there any way you could make regular intervals and then get ALL of the kids to use the potty/get changed? That works marvelously here. With those special 'bathroom' times, all of their friends are lined up, waiting to use potty/be changed and they aren't missing anything and are more compliant. Every kid I have here pees/poops during those times as well, so it saves me 100 bathroom trips/day. It's also a time when we need to be in the bathroom anyway (after breakfast, after outside/craft time, after lunch, after nap & before pick up times. (We do 8:30, 10:30, 12:30, 2:30 & 4:30.)

I handle potty training the same way I handle food. Non-issue. Accidents are a non issue and NEVER punitive. That's where parents are making HUGE mistakes and actually hindering progress. I also don't go crazy with sticker charts and treats either. Non-issue.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Holy marthas I'd like to holler that from the mountain tops some days lol. At first I was like what the heck is the obsession??? Had kids, tried em', but they didn't hold poo for beans, cost a butt load more and certainly didn't inspire much in the way of progress...I just didn't get it.

The light bulb eventually went off after seeing enough parents fart around with them forever and it was like OOOOOOHhhhhhh now I get it, it's not about your kiddo at all, it's actually totally about you and what you're THINKING/HOPING is happening here! It's weird because for some parents seems like they're almost seen as some weird badge of honor....MY kid is in pullups, isn't that awesome that he's so advanced for his age??! (while fast forward a year he still can't keep them dry for beans and now screams every time he is even asked to sit on the toilet )
This so true. I've never thought if it that way. Pull-ups came out after my DD was trained so I didn't have any personal experience with them. DD trained wearing those thick underwear with plastic pants over them.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:38 PM
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Pull ups are a joke, I won't use them here at all.

Blandino- I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in another thread of yours that was very similar. Is there any way you could make regular intervals and then get ALL of the kids to use the potty/get changed? That works marvelously here. With those special 'bathroom' times, all of their friends are lined up, waiting to use potty/be changed and they aren't missing anything and are more compliant. Every kid I have here pees/poops during those times as well, so it saves me 100 bathroom trips/day. It's also a time when we need to be in the bathroom anyway (after breakfast, after outside/craft time, after lunch, after nap & before pick up times. (We do 8:30, 10:30, 12:30, 2:30 & 4:30.)

I handle potty training the same way I handle food. Non-issue. Accidents are a non issue and NEVER punitive. That's where parents are making HUGE mistakes and actually hindering progress. I also don't go crazy with sticker charts and treats either. Non-issue.
Actually this is the same DCB that I was probably talking about before. I totally get what your are saying - and have thought about it. But I really don't think that I should have to be reminding him

To me part of being toilet trained is recognizing the need to go, and acting upon it. He has never ever ever done that. I would be a lot more apt to remind him throughout the day if he was using the toilet at all on his own, but he does not have the awareness of bladder fullness

I really do appreciate your suggestion, and like I said I have really thought about it to avoid this situation with parents. But I really want to avoid playing a game of "catching them before they pee", and that's what I feel like I would be doing. We are really really big on kids identifying the need and acting upon it. KWIM ?

Accidents are a non-issue for us too. I can't tell you the last accident one of my PT kids. Actually it was a 2 months ago, when we discovered that DCB was scared of our toilet because he fell in one day. But other that that, my PT kids really don't have accidents while awake, and sleeping ones are more common - but still rare. We just wait until they are ready to be fully-trained, and don't play this half-on half-off game thing some parents want to do.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:44 PM
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Oh, and for an update. This morning she brought in a HUGE bag of pull-ups. Ugh. If he needs a huge bag - then he doesn't need to be in pull-ups.

DCB wet the pull-ups and underwear that he wore, and wet the diaper that I put on after that. Today when she came in, she said "do you need to go potty" and he started crying and she said "well go then".

He was already wet at that point. And DCM saw that I had put a diaper on him. She didn't ask any questions about the diaper, but I told her that he had wet twice today - and never alerted me.

You are absolutely right - she doesn't care about my policies. But I will carry on and follow them no matter how much she rails against them. A child wearing underwear or pull-ups who is not using the toilet at all - and wetting them as they would a diaper, will be put in a diaper. It is written in my contract, and has been passed out on multiple potty training handouts. So regardless of what she chooses to send him in, when I change him, it will be into a diaper.

I am so over it, and will just continue to do what I am going to do.
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