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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Guns...Shooting....
MissAnn 04:08 AM 01-28-2011
Give me your take on this. Just plain fun and fantasy? Something you say "no" to? I'll give my thoughts....but I am open to hearing yours. I just think it's too much.....the television shows they watch are full of violence....even if it is superheroes with a good message of saving people....or the earth. Not sure the kids actually "get" that out of it. What I see here is a whole lot of hitting, kicking, and shooting. The shooting is what bothers me the most. They pretend to kill each other. I know they don't understand that "killing" is a permanent thing. I allow the superhero stuff outside......I tell them that's outside play. Running and rough play is not allowed indoors. The thing is....everything indoors becomes a weapon. I have great educational materials but a few of the boys only play with them as weapons. I know they watch a lot of superhero stuff at home.

I'm rambling and I think I hear a parent outside.....so? What are your thoughts?
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WImom 04:11 AM 01-28-2011
I don't allow it at all. I have it in my contract that I don't all gun/fighting play and if they allow it at home they need to explain to their children that it is not allowed at my childcare.
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daysofelijah 04:38 AM 01-28-2011
I try to tone it down if it gets to be a problem, but the boys are always building guns out of legos or train tracks or whatever. So the rule for the most part is no shooting at people, no using violent words like "kill", "dead", etc.

I know for sure 2 out of my 3 families are gun owning families, the third likely is too. So no one has a problem with some imaginary gun play. If I had a parent that did I'd probably try to make it a no at daycare.
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MG&Lsmom 04:39 AM 01-28-2011
Not allowed here either. We are a non violence household, family and daycare rules. Not allowed period. Listed in my contract as a cause for termination if it repeatedly happens. Boys will be boys, but they don't have to do it here.

I've been lucky that the simple, "We don't allow guns or shooting at our house, even pretend" response works for us. I got an eyeroll from a 9yo once and a quick convo with mom ended it right there.

My DD is obsessed with Star Wars thanks to DH so I know what you mean about the violence in the shows.
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nannyde 04:44 AM 01-28-2011
I don't allow any of it at all. No play fighting or super hero play at all. I don't allow them to turn things into imaginary weapons or "point" anything at each other.

I don't allow "wands" either.

This used to be an issue back in the mid nineties with my kids but it is not now. I found that it quickly developed into fighting play regardless of the "saving" or "good" character. The kids are naturally drawn to hyper, frentic, high pitched, high conflict play that mimics cartoons.

I allow them to play with figurines but not to do any kind of "conflict" play. I have a buzz lightyear doll or two, and rescue heros. They can't play conflict play with it.

Thank goodness the cartoons available now are plentiful and non violent. That wasn't the case so much in the nineties. Now with expanded cable and channels devoted to little kids the TV they watch is not anywhere near as violent.

My kids watch TV at home but they do not bring character play into my home. I don't have too many TV character toys.
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Cat Herder 04:44 AM 01-28-2011
I am a card toting member of the NRA and I do not allow gun "play".

Guns are not play. Guns are scary just like poison, snakes, and spiders....

Once they are much older they can be taught appropriate gun safety, at home, by their parents. If they so choose.

Here pointing a "hand" gun (pun intended) receives the same correction as "shooting a bird"....both are a No-No... No shooting, period.
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MyAngels 04:51 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I am a card toting member of the NRA and I do not allow gun "play".

Guns are not play. Guns are scary just like poison, snakes, and spiders....

Once they are much older they can be taught appropriate gun safety, at home, by their parents. If they so choose.

Here pointing a "hand" gun (pun intended) receives the same correction as "shooting a bird"....both are a No-No... No shooting, period.
This is the way I feel, too. There's just no place for this in my daycare setting.
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MissAnn 04:59 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
Guns are not play. Guns are scary just like poison, snakes, and spiders....
Don't know if this helps me since I have a tarantula as a class pet! Just kidding.

I feel that kids are surrounded by violence. I'm not talking about the "bad" neighborhoods and drug dealers or even child abuse. I'm talking about in almost every home.....the violence they are allowed to watch on television affects their play. They play what they know and see. I want to offer an alternative......learn how to play appropriately.....without constant crashing...shooting....kicking.

Loving the comments.....bring them on....I'd love to hear someone of the opposite opinion. Or....are there any?
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Cat Herder 05:12 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by kareng:
Don't know if this helps me since I have a tarantula as a class pet! Just kidding.
It is a good point, though.....because I LOVE LOVE LOVE snakes and spiders.

We just have so many venomous species, here, that trying to teach pre-schoolers the truth about how wonderful/necessary/fascinating they really are could easily turn deadly since they can't distinguish animal behaviors and species.

I do feel pangs of guilt each time I have to tell them "Don't touch!! Danger!"

OK, back off the soap box and back to you regularly scheduled topic....
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Sunny Day 05:44 AM 01-28-2011
I don't allow any gun play at all either. There are lots of other things they can play. I stop it immediately when I see it (I have one little boy who is FOREVER turning something into a gun and shooting the little kids--it infuriates me!)
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Stacy214 05:48 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I am a card toting member of the NRA and I do not allow gun "play".

Guns are not play. Guns are scary just like poison, snakes, and spiders....

Once they are much older they can be taught appropriate gun safety, at home, by their parents. If they so choose.

Here pointing a "hand" gun (pun intended) receives the same correction as "shooting a bird"....both are a No-No... No shooting, period.

I agree! I live in the rural areas of NC so TONS of shooting goes on out here and pretty sure everyone of my dck's have guns in their homes however i just have infants and toddlers so the gun thing hasn't been an issue "yet" lol.
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DCMomOf3 05:49 AM 01-28-2011
I don't allow it ever. I had a gun play issue with my SAs but I was the meanie and put my foot down. Play is much more relaxed and enjoyable now, for me and the kids. They don't miss it now, it was just constant vigilance on my part at first. And I think the kids in "bad" neighborhoods probably understand the results of guns better than the ones from "good" neighborhoods.
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Zoe 05:49 AM 01-28-2011
I don't like actual guns. I think they are deadly in the wrong hands. I made my husband get rid of his rifle before we got married. That being said, as a kid, my brother and I had a BB gun that we'd use for target practice (cans, action figures) up at our cabin in the woods. We also had "laser" guns that were wonderful playing in the woods. But we were taught how to properly use these "guns" and we were well over 10 years old.

I don't think those kind of toys, or even the "hand" guns like we're talking about are appropriate for children in the daycare setting. They're too young to realize the danger of what they're doing. When they're older and have learned responsibility with guns, then it's ok. NOT under 10! And NEVER unsupervised or with friends who don't know gun safety.
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MissAnn 05:50 AM 01-28-2011
I have a family who proudly tells me they do not have television. Her boys play spiderman and batman and shooting all day. No, they do not have television, but they do watch videos! I'd rather kids watch regular television but more educational and less violence.
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countrymom 06:01 AM 01-28-2011
well, we were a "gun free" zone till new dcb started. This kid turns everything into a gun, so now i just take the toys away, I agree with that there is too much violence nowadays. I have another dcb who loves to play with army men--mom thinks its great that he has imagination, but they are all shooting and killing each other. Also, if you have a non violent home, children will grow up to be non violent children.
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AmandasFCC 06:03 AM 01-28-2011
I don't allow gun play whatsoever either. I just don't like it.
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AnythingsPossible 06:14 AM 01-28-2011
I used to be very adamant about no gun play. Some family issues cause this point of view. Anyway, it was seeming like a constant battle. I attended a training on play zones and the women that was giving the training used to run a home daycare. She had a covered wagon in her backyard play space (how cool would that be!!) and for her, that was her gun zone. The kids were allowed to play gun type games there, but they had to be hunting for something, once they left the wagon, the guns were done. We live in a very hunting minded area!! What she had chosen to do was accept the fact the kids were going to play gun games, and gave them an area in which they could in a play scenario that in her mind was appropriate and relevant to their lives. I have adopted this in the aspect in that when I see them start with gun play, I ask what we are hunting for and where we are going hunting at. Now, 7 times out of 10, hunting wasn't on their mind, but that's what we turn it into. I have a 7 years old in care who was given a 22 for christmas and santa brought him bullets. Not the present of choice in my mind, but it's a different mind set for some people.
As for the rough play. I have no idea. I have 4 boys from 3.5 to 7 that would wrestle and attack each other all day if I let them. I honestly think it's just boy behavior. They all watch wrestling on tv, wrestle in the USA wrestling and one takes tae kwan do(sp). It seems I seperate them daily. No answer for that one.
My take on gun play isn't the normal one, but for my area, I've chosen to work with it, rather then constantly fight it. If they do get out of hand or are aiming their "guns" at people, the toy of choice is taken away and they sit at the table for awhile.
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DBug 06:19 AM 01-28-2011
We live right beside a military base, so whenever we're outside we can hear the gunfire and various explosions from the munitions guys. About half of my families are military, so gun knowledge is pretty common around here. I haven't had to deal with gun play yet, but when/if I do, I plan on taking it very seriously. As the kids get older and are playing with less supervision in their own houses or in friends' houses, it's quite likely that they could come across a gun, and I certainly don't want them to think it's a toy. So my rule is no toy weapons, pretend shooting or any other kind of aggressive play.

With school-age boys of my own, I know how hard it is to get them to play games that aren't aggressive, but I also know how important it is. I have known other families that have a different philosophy (ie. letting boys be "boys"), and they have also experienced multiple problems at school with their sons getting into fights resulting in suspensions, etc. I really strongly believe that teaching them to control the aggression is a huge step in self-control and self-discipline. And they need to learn it while they're young, cuz it's alot harder to learn when they're older!

Hopefully it will work with my dc kids too!
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Stacy214 06:22 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by AnythingsPossible:
I used to be very adamant about no gun play. Some family issues cause this point of view. Anyway, it was seeming like a constant battle. I attended a training on play zones and the women that was giving the training used to run a home daycare. She had a covered wagon in her backyard play space (how cool would that be!!) and for her, that was her gun zone. The kids were allowed to play gun type games there, but they had to be hunting for something, once they left the wagon, the guns were done. We live in a very hunting minded area!! What she had chosen to do was accept the fact the kids were going to play gun games, and gave them an area in which they could in a play scenario that in her mind was appropriate and relevant to their lives. I have adopted this in the aspect in that when I see them start with gun play, I ask what we are hunting for and where we are going hunting at. Now, 7 times out of 10, hunting wasn't on their mind, but that's what we turn it into. I have a 7 years old in care who was given a 22 for christmas and santa brought him bullets. Not the present of choice in my mind, but it's a different mind set for some people.
As for the rough play. I have no idea. I have 4 boys from 3.5 to 7 that would wrestle and attack each other all day if I let them. I honestly think it's just boy behavior. They all watch wrestling on tv, wrestle in the USA wrestling and one takes tae kwan do(sp). It seems I seperate them daily. No answer for that one.
My take on gun play isn't the normal one, but for my area, I've chosen to work with it, rather then constantly fight it. If they do get out of hand or are aiming their "guns" at people, the toy of choice is taken away and they sit at the table for awhile.
I like this idea! and will keep it in mind for when the time comes, thank you!
3 out of 4 of my dck's have their hunting/fishing license already lol (cheaper before they are 1 and it's for life ) crazy
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melskids 06:51 AM 01-28-2011
well, i am a card toting memeber of the NRA too. our family hunts, fishes, belongs to the local rod and gun club, archery club, and trappers association, target pratices, clay shoots, you name it. my 14 yr old just hunted big game for the first time this year. my 8yr old has a pellet gun. we come from a looong line of outdoorsmen. (so do all my DC families. one momma hunted pregnant this past fall) we teach our children responsible hunting. they dont just go out unsupervised and shoot up everything just for the sake of doing it. they learn to take only what they are going to eat, and we have even donated venison to our local food bank. i absolutely believe its not guns who kill people, its people who kill people. its all about education and gun safety. (BTW, there are NO guns or ammo in my home AT ALL. its all at my inlaws home, and even there, it is locked up appropriately)

that being said, i am absolutely disgusted with what i see on TV. not just violence, but sexual situations as well. i dont let my sons watch violent or sexually explicit shows, and we closley monitor what they do see.


as far as the daycare, i don't necessarily allow gun play or encourage it, but when it happens, i dont make a huge deal about it either. i dont want it in my DC, but sometimes the more you make a big deal about what they can't do, the more they want to do it. although i will usually redirect them to do something else, i dont draw alot of attention to it either. if the older boys are outside chasing aliens, i might let it go. if they start shooting at each other, or beating each other with the sticks, then i intervine.

but i also dont feel that all fantasy play will lead to violence later on. my son loves star wars. just because he likes to pretend he's darth vader now, doesn't mean he's going to turn into the son of sam later. murderers, rapists and gang bangers are that way because a lack of morals and values, and other phsycological issues. not because their mothers let them play cops and robbers when they were 5.

JMO

<<<<<zipping up my flame suit now>>>>>>>>
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littlemonkeys 07:08 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
I am a card toting member of the NRA and I do not allow gun "play".

Guns are not play. Guns are scary just like poison, snakes, and spiders....

Once they are much older they can be taught appropriate gun safety, at home, by their parents. If they so choose.

Here pointing a "hand" gun (pun intended) receives the same correction as "shooting a bird"....both are a No-No... No shooting, period.
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
This is the way I feel, too. There's just no place for this in my daycare setting.

I feel the same way too... In school here, "toy guns" are NOT allowed. So I have made the decision to keep them out of my daycare as well. In our school district the kids are not even allowed to wear a shirt with a gun on it. We went to Disneyland and bought my son a shirt. The print was Goofy dressed like a cowboy with his hands on a gun holster. I didn't even think it was a big deal and sent my son to school with it on... just to get a call later to bring him a new shirt or take him home.
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Luna 08:01 AM 01-28-2011
We had a thread about this earlier, and because of it I did a bunch of research.
The gun play bothered me a lot, but I allow it because of what I learned.
My dck's were turning everything into guns...food, legos, fingers, sticks, pieces of fluff...everything. No matter how much I tried to stop it, they did it every chance they got.
The research said that trying to stop the gun play may teach them to become deceptive, eg. when you catch them playing "guns", the gun becomes a telephone.

I wouldn't allow a gun that looks like a gun, meaning anything that could possibly be mistaken for a real gun, so it's legos and crackers for my dck's.
The research shows that (God forbid) a child finding a real gun will want to pick it up, whether or not they've been exposed to guns or gun play.

Those are just a couple of points that stood out for me. There were many more.

I don't allow them to shoot at each other or at animals, and if someone behaves like they're angry, the play is over.

I certainly understand and respect everyone's opinion and decisions about this, but this is how I feel about it after spending DAYS checking out the information available.
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laundrymom 09:47 AM 01-28-2011
I am in love with this post!!! I whole heartedly agree.

Originally Posted by Catherder:
I am a card toting member of the NRA and I do not allow gun "play".

Guns are not play. Guns are scary just like poison, snakes, and spiders....

Once they are much older they can be taught appropriate gun safety, at home, by their parents. If they so choose.

Here pointing a "hand" gun (pun intended) receives the same correction as "shooting a bird"....both are a No-No... No shooting, period.

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nannyde 09:57 AM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by Luna:
We had a thread about this earlier, and because of it I did a bunch of research.
The gun play bothered me a lot, but I allow it because of what I learned.
My dck's were turning everything into guns...food, legos, fingers, sticks, pieces of fluff...everything. No matter how much I tried to stop it, they did it every chance they got.
The research said that trying to stop the gun play may teach them to become deceptive, eg. when you catch them playing "guns", the gun becomes a telephone.

I wouldn't allow a gun that looks like a gun, meaning anything that could possibly be mistaken for a real gun, so it's legos and crackers for my dck's.
The research shows that (God forbid) a child finding a real gun will want to pick it up, whether or not they've been exposed to guns or gun play.

Those are just a couple of points that stood out for me. There were many more.

I don't allow them to shoot at each other or at animals, and if someone behaves like they're angry, the play is over.

I certainly understand and respect everyone's opinion and decisions about this, but this is how I feel about it after spending DAYS checking out the information available.
I'm interested in this. Could you site the research that made the difference in your thinking?

I don't have ANY problem with gun play. NONE of my kids play it at all ever but I'm interested in what RESEARCH you found that changed your mind.
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AnythingsPossible 12:18 PM 01-28-2011
I would be curious how many of our husbands, brothers, fathers, grandfathers and so on played gun play and wrestled and fought with their buddies growing up. I would be willing to wager a fine majority of them did and yet they managed to grow up and not be deranged citizens. Sometimes I think to much is put on things being inappropriate. Boys have played this way for ages. I don't think it has inadvertently affected their development.
I vividly remember my brother and the other boys in our neighborhood picking teams and having wars with each other in the summer time. i don't think any of them grew up and shot anybody.
Yes bad things have happened with children and guns, but I personally don't believe that it is because they were allowed to play guns when they were preschoolers. I certainly hope not because my daughter bought herself a cap gun this summer. I think there has to be a middle ground somewhere.
While I do allow gun play, it isn't like my boys are constantly running around hunting up and shooting things. Occasionally that is where their minds go and when they do I allow it. We can go ages without anyone creating that play scenario, and then they do for whatever reason.
In my previous post I stated that i used to have a no gun rule because of a family issue, my husbands cousin shot himself at the very young age of 16. For quite awhile we were very adamant about no gun play what so ever, if my son made a gun out of something, hubby flipped. After a few years we stepped back and looked at it differently. His cousin didn't do what he did because he played guns when he was little. There were obviously other issues, and rather he had played guns or not, he made the choice he did.
I found the following blog post to be a good read along with the additional sources listed, give it a read if you're interested in reading more about gun play in preschool.
http://teachertomsblog.blogspot.com/...ying-guns.html
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Symphony 01:17 PM 01-28-2011
I do not have any toy guns (I guess we have water guns in the summer...) but I do allow gun play with limits. We live in an area where hunting is a HUGE, very prominent part of our culture. I know four of my families do not eat any meat that dad didn't go out and get himself. It is a year round commitment made by the hunters. The main economy where we live is ranching. Ranching is not always the most peaceful lifestyle either. The kids are exposed to this really early as well.

So most of my kids have this in their homes and it is a big part of their lives. Hunting and ranching put food on their tables and roofs over their heads. When my kids want to play hunting I allow it without batting an eye. I would feel I was disrespecting their families and our community if I didn't. However, I do NOT allow other types of gun play, and we never point at people or the animals who live here.
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Luna 01:37 PM 01-28-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I'm interested in this. Could you site the research that made the difference in your thinking?

I don't have ANY problem with gun play. NONE of my kids play it at all ever but I'm interested in what RESEARCH you found that changed your mind.
Nannyde, I read for days, following one link after another. Here is the one that got me interested:

http://www.richlearningopportunities...0need%20it.pdf
I know, it isn't RESEARCH, it's an article. I'm just saying it led me on a search for more information.

ETA: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11389238

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11943968
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