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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Need Advice..FAST
Provider_Manda 09:56 AM 09-06-2013
I am so upset. This morning I had a visit from our township's zoning officer. He proceeded to tell me that I could NOT have a home daycare (only allowed 6 kids). When I told him I had no idea and that I was through our Jobs and family Services, he told me that it didn't matter, and that I was operating a commercial business in a residential area. He took the names down of my JFS case workers that I deal with during inspections. He then told me that I was complained about, due to have a small sign attached to my mail box.
Also found out the the 2 church's on my street was turned down to have center's due to it being a residential area. I had no idea that a home daycare would need a permit, or that it was a commercial business. Every number I call, has no idea..and I need help, and prayer..please
Also found out the the 2 church's on my street was turned down to have center's due to it being a residential area. I had no idea that a home daycare would need a permit, or that it was a commercial business. Every number I call, has no idea..and I need help, and prayer..please
craftymissbeth 09:58 AM 09-06-2013
My town used to be like that. Thank goodness they changed it. Providers used to have to go through the process of zoning their home commercial in order to have a daycare 
I'm assuming you already tried the zoning office?
I'm assuming you already tried the zoning office?
Provider_Manda 10:01 AM 09-06-2013
There is no phone number to the zoning office..It is one guy, and that is who stopped by today. I took the sign down, so I honestly don't know if he will proceed with it or not. I am just so upset, we had no knowledge of this. And I have been operating for 2 years!
Maria2013 10:07 AM 09-06-2013
I'm so sorry this is happening to you
are there other home Daycare close to you?
...if a zoning permit is required, why did the State issue a license without it?
are there other home Daycare close to you?
...if a zoning permit is required, why did the State issue a license without it?
Provider_Manda 10:09 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
I'm so sorry this is happening to you
are there other home Daycare close to you?
...if a zoning permit is required, why did the State issue a license without it?
That is the exact question I asked. He said he would make phone calls, so I don't know what will happen. There use to be a home daycare up the road, but the provider passed away last year. Im sure someone is around me, but I just don't know about itI'm so sorry this is happening to you
are there other home Daycare close to you?
...if a zoning permit is required, why did the State issue a license without it?
Brooksie 10:17 AM 09-06-2013
I'm confused as to how you were allowed to operate and be licensed without approval from zoning. I had to go through the zoning process first. Even though I'm residential all they had to do was put a sign in my yard and if no one filed a complaint for 2 weeks then I was approved. They did come and tell me I could not have a sign in my yard but that was noticed by the town itself, not through a complaint. I'm really sorry you're going through this. If you can't operate a business in your neighborhood there isn't really another option. I would call your licencor and see what they have to say.
Leigh 10:18 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
I'm so sorry this is happening to you
are there other home Daycare close to you?
...if a zoning permit is required, why did the State issue a license without it?
My city requires a permit, as well. My state licensing rep told me that they don't enforce it (the state doesn't enforce, and will issue a license) because of some disagreement with the city on the rules. Apparently, most licensed cares in my city are not licensed with the city. In MY city, I have never heard of the city shutting down a daycare.I'm so sorry this is happening to you
are there other home Daycare close to you?
...if a zoning permit is required, why did the State issue a license without it?
Did the zoning person give you a notice or remedy to the issue (OTHER than closing down)? I would think that a certain number of your neighbors would have to sign an agreement to allow the daycare, OR a certain number would have to show up at a zoning meeting to fight against it.
Play Care 10:24 AM 09-06-2013
I believe in my state they can not tell me that I can't have an in home day care and that the state law allowing me to have the in home supersedes any town/county law. Something like they can't require more then the state requires.
But if that's not the case in your state then you should have been informed that when you went to open
It seems bizarre your licensor wouldn't have mentioned that or it wouldn't have come up in the trainings you have to take.
But if that's not the case in your state then you should have been informed that when you went to open
It seems bizarre your licensor wouldn't have mentioned that or it wouldn't have come up in the trainings you have to take.
Sugar Magnolia 10:42 AM 09-06-2013
Do you own your home or rent? If you own it, honestly, I see no solution other than to close or appeal to your city's zoning department. I assume there are hefty fines involved for continuing to operate. If you rent.....then I would move to an area that allows this use.
I went through 14 months of reviews to get zoning approval for my center. I had to go through the exact same process as Walmart did to be allowed to open. Unfortunately, your city may not see this as a "gray area", you are either operating a commercial business in a residential zone, or you're not. Simply taking down your sign does not mean are in the clear. I am sorry you are going through this, it's very unfortunate.
Did this man wear an identification badge of any kind? Or leave a card? Are you sure he was legit?
I went through 14 months of reviews to get zoning approval for my center. I had to go through the exact same process as Walmart did to be allowed to open. Unfortunately, your city may not see this as a "gray area", you are either operating a commercial business in a residential zone, or you're not. Simply taking down your sign does not mean are in the clear. I am sorry you are going through this, it's very unfortunate.
Did this man wear an identification badge of any kind? Or leave a card? Are you sure he was legit?
Margarete 10:52 AM 09-06-2013
In California you can not be restricted from opening a small family child care center, even if you are renting, you only need permission from your landlord if you are going above 6 kids. Check regulations in your area, and check with licensing. There is a possibility that this particular officer isn't familiar with rules specifically applying to 'child care' and is just seeing 'commercial business'
momofsix 11:01 AM 09-06-2013
If your licensor isn't helping you is there a resource agency in your area for child care that you could call and ask? I'd hate to rely on the word of a "one man zoning committee" for your information!
In MI you only need to go through zoning if you have a group home or a center-not a small family home.
Praying that you get this worked out!
In MI you only need to go through zoning if you have a group home or a center-not a small family home.
Praying that you get this worked out!
Provider_Manda 11:23 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Brooksie:
I'm confused as to how you were allowed to operate and be licensed without approval from zoning. I had to go through the zoning process first. Even though I'm residential all they had to do was put a sign in my yard and if no one filed a complaint for 2 weeks then I was approved. They did come and tell me I could not have a sign in my yard but that was noticed by the town itself, not through a complaint. I'm really sorry you're going through this. If you can't operate a business in your neighborhood there isn't really another option. I would call your licencor and see what they have to say.
Well I am not licensed, I am certified. And when you get certified in Ohio (at least in my county) they never say anything about zoning laws. You meet the requirements, pass your inspection and that is it. And to do home daycare you have to live at the physical address, you cannot rent a place and operate there.I'm confused as to how you were allowed to operate and be licensed without approval from zoning. I had to go through the zoning process first. Even though I'm residential all they had to do was put a sign in my yard and if no one filed a complaint for 2 weeks then I was approved. They did come and tell me I could not have a sign in my yard but that was noticed by the town itself, not through a complaint. I'm really sorry you're going through this. If you can't operate a business in your neighborhood there isn't really another option. I would call your licencor and see what they have to say.
Provider_Manda 11:26 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Do you own your home or rent? If you own it, honestly, I see no solution other than to close or appeal to your city's zoning department. I assume there are hefty fines involved for continuing to operate. If you rent.....then I would move to an area that allows this use.
I went through 14 months of reviews to get zoning approval for my center. I had to go through the exact same process as Walmart did to be allowed to open. Unfortunately, your city may not see this as a "gray area", you are either operating a commercial business in a residential zone, or you're not. Simply taking down your sign does not mean are in the clear. I am sorry you are going through this, it's very unfortunate.
Did this man wear an identification badge of any kind? Or leave a card? Are you sure he was legit?
Just left a card, and when I called the trustee the recording had his name on it. But no badge. I own my home, when you go through the process with ODJFS they never tell you anything about zoning laws, I had no idea it would be an issue. And it's all over a small sign on my mailbox Do you own your home or rent? If you own it, honestly, I see no solution other than to close or appeal to your city's zoning department. I assume there are hefty fines involved for continuing to operate. If you rent.....then I would move to an area that allows this use.
I went through 14 months of reviews to get zoning approval for my center. I had to go through the exact same process as Walmart did to be allowed to open. Unfortunately, your city may not see this as a "gray area", you are either operating a commercial business in a residential zone, or you're not. Simply taking down your sign does not mean are in the clear. I am sorry you are going through this, it's very unfortunate.
Did this man wear an identification badge of any kind? Or leave a card? Are you sure he was legit?
Provider_Manda 11:29 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Leigh:
My city requires a permit, as well. My state licensing rep told me that they don't enforce it (the state doesn't enforce, and will issue a license) because of some disagreement with the city on the rules. Apparently, most licensed cares in my city are not licensed with the city. In MY city, I have never heard of the city shutting down a daycare.
Did the zoning person give you a notice or remedy to the issue (OTHER than closing down)? I would think that a certain number of your neighbors would have to sign an agreement to allow the daycare, OR a certain number would have to show up at a zoning meeting to fight against it.
He gave me nothing, handed me a card and told me that he would call ODJFS and a couple of other people. No documents to back up the law or anything. I cannot find anything online, and I have called the trustee, my ODJFS office and the courthouse..And of course no one knows anything My city requires a permit, as well. My state licensing rep told me that they don't enforce it (the state doesn't enforce, and will issue a license) because of some disagreement with the city on the rules. Apparently, most licensed cares in my city are not licensed with the city. In MY city, I have never heard of the city shutting down a daycare.
Did the zoning person give you a notice or remedy to the issue (OTHER than closing down)? I would think that a certain number of your neighbors would have to sign an agreement to allow the daycare, OR a certain number would have to show up at a zoning meeting to fight against it.
Sugar Magnolia 11:32 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Provider_Manda:
Just left a card, and when I called the trustee the recording had his name on it. But no badge. I own my home, when you go through the process with ODJFS they never tell you anything about zoning laws, I had no idea it would be an issue. And it's all over a small sign on my mailbox
I can't figure out how to post links here. Please try googling "Portsmouth Ohio zoning.laws", I did see something about an appeal process. You can fight this! Don't give up without a fight! See if your town has.a "conditional.use" route you can take. Just left a card, and when I called the trustee the recording had his name on it. But no badge. I own my home, when you go through the process with ODJFS they never tell you anything about zoning laws, I had no idea it would be an issue. And it's all over a small sign on my mailbox
I suspect a nasty neighbor.
MyAngels 11:33 AM 09-06-2013
Maybe you can apply for a zoning variance or a special use permit. I'd definitely be doing some research on your town's laws in this matter. There has to be a way around this, unless you don't have any other home based daycares in the area? If there are others then there's a way to do it. They can't all be operating contrary to the town's ordinances.
Laurel 11:35 AM 09-06-2013
Like Play Care said, see if you have a STATE law that supersedes a city ordinance. We do in Florida. Maybe call your state attorney's office.
Good luck!
Laurel
Good luck!
Laurel
Provider_Manda 11:38 AM 09-06-2013
What is so shocking is that I have several provider friends that all have home daycares, and NONE of them have ever went through zoning, nor was they ever told to.
I am suspecting one of the church's, I know that's awful to say. But he told me they 2 church's down the road was refused a zoning permit to operate Center's. I have had my little sign up for 2 weeks, and now this, stupid little sign..lol
I am suspecting one of the church's, I know that's awful to say. But he told me they 2 church's down the road was refused a zoning permit to operate Center's. I have had my little sign up for 2 weeks, and now this, stupid little sign..lol
Sugar Magnolia 11:56 AM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Provider_Manda:
What is so shocking is that I have several provider friends that all have home daycares, and NONE of them have ever went through zoning, nor was they ever told to.
I am suspecting one of the church's, I know that's awful to say. But he told me they 2 church's down the road was refused a zoning permit to operate Center's. I have had my little sign up for 2 weeks, and now this, stupid little sign..lol
Sadly, churches CAN be nasty neighbors. When I was going through the.zoning process, we had to have a neighborhood workshop open to all property owners within a certain radius. The purpose was so people could ask questions about noise, traffic, egress, trash storage, etc. The people that showed up was the Director of the church daycare. They had NOrelevant questions......only question was "Who do you think you are? We have been here. 20 years and you might take business from us.. We don't want you to.compete." She went on to.tell us trying to "hurt her business" was "in-Christian-like". The.city official moderating the meeting.said her comments had nothing to do with zoning issues and.asked her to leave.What is so shocking is that I have several provider friends that all have home daycares, and NONE of them have ever went through zoning, nor was they ever told to.
I am suspecting one of the church's, I know that's awful to say. But he told me they 2 church's down the road was refused a zoning permit to operate Center's. I have had my little sign up for 2 weeks, and now this, stupid little sign..lol
Hmmmmm, never once saw a Walmart NOT open because KMart.didn't like.competition.
AcornMama 12:15 PM 09-06-2013
Does your town's zoning department have any regulations for people running business of any kind out of their homes. Think accountants that do work at home and meet clients at home, that type of work. When I was going through licensing, I had to clear things with zoning, and where I am, I don't have to be zoned commercial, but I do have to follow all of the regulations for a home occupation. That means I'm lumped in with professionals like accountants, or someone who does computer service, or someone who makes something to sell. Just an idea...if they allow others to do other kind of work from their home as a home occupation, could you fall under the same rules?
Heidi 12:30 PM 09-06-2013
In WI, it's written into the state laws that a town or city cannot require zoning for family childcare., certified or licensed.
Heidi 12:34 PM 09-06-2013
Sunchimes 12:39 PM 09-06-2013
craftymissbeth 12:42 PM 09-06-2013
Yay! 
I really hope they figure this out for you. I can only imagine how scary that's got to be
I really hope they figure this out for you. I can only imagine how scary that's got to be
Provider_Manda 12:44 PM 09-06-2013
OMGOSH HEIDI!!! I love you 
Thank you so much, this is what I was looking for!!
Thank you so much, this is what I was looking for!!
Heidi 12:47 PM 09-06-2013
Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
Leigh 01:03 PM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
Perfect. Now go hang your sign back up! (though the SIGN may be regulated).Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
AcornMama 01:05 PM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
Nice investigating, Heidi!
Scout 01:20 PM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
Dear Mr. Snarky Zoning Guy:
I am writing today regarding your recent visit to my family childcare program. During your visit, you informed me that as a Type B program in the city of Portsmouth, I am required to obtain a city permit.
Ohio state code 5104.054, [i]zoning for type B family daycare[/ states that: Any type B family day-care home, whether licensed or not licensed by the director of job and family services, shall be considered to be a residential use of property for purposes of municipal, county, and township zoning and shall be a permitted use in all zoning districts in which residential uses are permitted. No municipal, county, or township zoning regulations shall require a conditional use permit or any other special exception certification for any such type B family day-care home.
I so glad that this has been cleared up! I trust you have bigger fish to fry, and I will therefore never see your handsome face again.
Sincerely,
Provider Manda
funny stuff
TwinKristi 01:22 PM 09-06-2013
Yay! That's awesome!! I'm in CA and called my city to see if I needed a business license and they said no so I figured I was all clear! My dh has a business as well and we just have to have a business license for him.
spinnymarie 01:36 PM 09-06-2013
Whew, is this an awesome forum or what!?
Familycare71 01:42 PM 09-06-2013
Heidi!!!!!
Provider_Manda 01:43 PM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by spinnymarie:
Whew, is this an awesome forum or what!?
Whew, is this an awesome forum or what!?
Sugar Magnolia 04:01 PM 09-06-2013
Heidi........
YOU TOTALLY ROCK
YOU TOTALLY ROCK
Margarete 04:07 PM 09-06-2013
Maria2013 05:19 PM 09-06-2013
yay !!!
Heidi 05:34 PM 09-06-2013
awww shucks...you're more than welcome, I hope it helps, and thanks for the kudos, ladies.
Sunshine74 07:19 PM 09-06-2013
Originally Posted by Margarete:
Yay!! Good job Heidi.
Yay!! Good job Heidi.
Provider_Manda 02:41 PM 09-07-2013
Just a quick update, I did not see or hear from the zone officer yet. But when I called down to JFS, and spoke with the case worker who done my inspections he informed me that the zoning officer had already called him. And proceeded to tell the case worker that it's not fair for one to do it and not the other meaning the churches.
My case worker told him that he thought someone was being a busy body..lol
I was also informed that this is the first time this has ever happened. But after the finding's from Heidi, another provider also gave me the same info ( she has been a provider and director for 23+ years in OHio)
I got the website info and emailed to my case worker, and I will also have a copy of it here printed off in case he comes back. Thanks for all the advice and support..that's why I this forum!!
My case worker told him that he thought someone was being a busy body..lol
I was also informed that this is the first time this has ever happened. But after the finding's from Heidi, another provider also gave me the same info ( she has been a provider and director for 23+ years in OHio)
I got the website info and emailed to my case worker, and I will also have a copy of it here printed off in case he comes back. Thanks for all the advice and support..that's why I
this forum!!
Sunshine74 04:55 PM 09-07-2013
Originally Posted by Provider_Manda:
Just a quick update, I did not see or hear from the zone officer yet. But when I called down to JFS, and spoke with the case worker who done my inspections he informed me that the zoning officer had already called him. And proceeded to tell the case worker that it's not fair for one to do it and not the other meaning the churches.
My case worker told him that he thought someone was being a busy body..lol
I was also informed that this is the first time this has ever happened. But after the finding's from Heidi, another provider also gave me the same info ( she has been a provider and director for 23+ years in OHio)
I got the website info and emailed to my case worker, and I will also have a copy of it here printed off in case he comes back. Thanks for all the advice and support..that's why I this forum!!
Wow, from that statement it sounds like the zoning officer is affiliated with one of the churches.Just a quick update, I did not see or hear from the zone officer yet. But when I called down to JFS, and spoke with the case worker who done my inspections he informed me that the zoning officer had already called him. And proceeded to tell the case worker that it's not fair for one to do it and not the other meaning the churches.
My case worker told him that he thought someone was being a busy body..lol
I was also informed that this is the first time this has ever happened. But after the finding's from Heidi, another provider also gave me the same info ( she has been a provider and director for 23+ years in OHio)
I got the website info and emailed to my case worker, and I will also have a copy of it here printed off in case he comes back. Thanks for all the advice and support..that's why I
this forum!!
Provider_Manda 03:53 PM 09-08-2013
Originally Posted by Sunshine74:
Wow, from that statement it sounds like the zoning officer is affiliated with one of the churches.
Sunshine this is our thought exactly !!Wow, from that statement it sounds like the zoning officer is affiliated with one of the churches.
countrymom 07:15 AM 09-09-2013
wow, I just read this. Awesome that everything has worked out for you.
Heidi 07:20 AM 09-09-2013
Originally Posted by Sunshine74:
Wow, from that statement it sounds like the zoning officer is affiliated with one of the churches.
Yeah, which is why he doesn't think it's "fair"...Wow, from that statement it sounds like the zoning officer is affiliated with one of the churches.
Apparently, he didn't understand the difference between a private party in their own home running a SMALL business, and a church, on a commercial property, opening a commercial center. Totally different rules, totally different impact on the community.