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  #1  
Old 12-20-2017, 07:03 PM
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Default WWYD? New Licensing Rule Re Screen Time

(6) Except for occasional special events, children's screen time on media such as television, cell phones, tablets, and computers shall:
(a) not be allowed for children 0 to 17 months old;
(b) be limited for children 18 months to 4 years old to 1 hour per day, or 5 hours per week with a maximum screen time of 2 hours per
activity; and
(c) be part of a media plan that addresses the needs of children 5 to 12 years old.

So, when I have a new child who is having a hard time with separation anxiety...I can no longer use some Elmo time to help them adjust. I just have to....not accept them????? Because I really don't want to hear them screaming for hours and hours.

When I feel like crud because I am sleep deprived or half sick...I can no longer put on a show and lie on the sofa, using the show to help keep kids easier to supervise. I have to give them less adequate supervision or CLOSE.

I can no longer put on a Youtube playlist as part of my homeschool child and pre-K children's educational plan...because a toddler or infant month old might see it?

My licensor said that she didn't think this would pass, but it did. She said that no one would be looking over my shoulder. They would just ask me in interview. But what do I say? What are my choices????

I am sooo mad. I don't have an assistant except a little bit in the Winter when DH isn't doing his 2nd job doing lawns. I help children who have a hard time adjusting. I have a GREAT program. What do they think I am? Some kind of Mary Poppins robot????? Do they think that parents can take MORE days off work when I'm not feeling great???? We don't get to watch a movie, because I follow licensing on letting infants and toddlers nap on their own schedule which means they NAP AT DIFFERENT TIMES?????

GRRRRRRR!
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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Oh, and infant who likes to be held all the time? I hold him while I stand and check my email on my laptop, read on dc.c or facebook, read the news website etc. How stupid is this rule????
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
(6) Except for occasional special events, children's screen time on media such as television, cell phones, tablets, and computers shall:
(a) not be allowed for children 0 to 17 months old;
(b) be limited for children 18 months to 4 years old to 1 hour per day, or 5 hours per week with a maximum screen time of 2 hours per
activity; and
(c) be part of a media plan that addresses the needs of children 5 to 12 years old.

So, when I have a new child who is having a hard time with separation anxiety...I can no longer use some Elmo time to help them adjust. I just have to....not accept them????? Because I really don't want to hear them screaming for hours and hours.

When I feel like crud because I am sleep deprived or half sick...I can no longer put on a show and lie on the sofa, using the show to help keep kids easier to supervise. I have to give them less adequate supervision or CLOSE.

I can no longer put on a Youtube playlist as part of my homeschool child and pre-K children's educational plan...because a toddler or infant month old might see it?

My licensor said that she didn't think this would pass, but it did. She said that no one would be looking over my shoulder. They would just ask me in interview. But what do I say? What are my choices????

I am sooo mad. I don't have an assistant except a little bit in the Winter when DH isn't doing his 2nd job doing lawns. I help children who have a hard time adjusting. I have a GREAT program. What do they think I am? Some kind of Mary Poppins robot????? Do they think that parents can take MORE days off work when I'm not feeling great???? We don't get to watch a movie, because I follow licensing on letting infants and toddlers nap on their own schedule which means they NAP AT DIFFERENT TIMES?????

GRRRRRRR!
I don't even have a TV, much less allow YouTube for my babes. That's been a state reg in just about every state I have ever done childcare. I tell parents, that their little won't get the same here as at home & they will be called if said older has a meltdown. Most mine are under 24 months, but I found it's the older babes/toddlers that have issues because parents don't want to deal and I have one aging out on Friday that thankfully I don't have hear, "please Grandma I want wheels on the bus"
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:34 PM
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I work in a small center, and we are completely screen free, and new kids just need time to adjust. None of the kids who have been here long term miss it. And yes, I go to work when I am not feeling well. In fact unless I am throwing up I am there and dealing with 6 toddlers all day, because if I am not there, someone has to come in on their day off to cover for me. Yes, there are moments/days I wish I could turn on a tv and let them be entertained, but I find other ways to keep them busy.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:40 PM
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Wouldnt you being ill be a special occasion?
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Wouldn’t you being ill be a special occasion?
Good point.

And we actually are screen free as much as possible. In Summer especially, many weeks have zero screen time. My dcks like each other and prefer to be social with each other. And my own family is low-tech. We have no gaming system, no smart phones, not even a flat screen tv.

But I don't like how little discretion this new rule gives the providers. And by this rule...any provider who even was on their iphone internet while holding a baby would be breaking the rule.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:17 AM
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So do what your licensor suggested. No one is looking over your shoulder.
Unfortunately, we are being encouraged to fudge, which amounts to downright lying, when asked about certain things. So why the heck create all these rules if providers are being encouraged to fudge them??
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
So do what your licensor suggested. No one is looking over your shoulder.
Unfortunately, we are being encouraged to fudge, which amounts to downright lying, when asked about certain things. So why the heck create all these rules if providers are being encouraged to fudge them??
Simple- the people making the rules haven't worked with children or feel the need to do "something" regardless of if it makes sense or not.

In my case I would ask what counts as screen time. We have a great children's music channel on our cable. I turn it on after lunch for naptime and leave it on the rest of the day. It's music and a couple dozen changing pictures (birds, toys, flowers, etc.) It gives me access to a lot of different music for the kids. Does that count as screen time? What about allowing school agers to use my computer to research for homework? Oye
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:06 AM
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I sometimes use my Chromebook to pull up folk songs (I'm home schooling my preschooler, and Language & Literacy for the first couple of years is mostly nursery rhymes, fairy tales, folk tales and folk songs). I have to turn the Chromebook to the wall or the kids will all end up clustered around it. . . even if it's just a lyric video.
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveA View Post
Simple- the people making the rules haven't worked with children or feel the need to do "something" regardless of if it makes sense or not.

In my case I would ask what counts as screen time. We have a great children's music channel on our cable. I turn it on after lunch for naptime and leave it on the rest of the day. It's music and a couple dozen changing pictures (birds, toys, flowers, etc.) It gives me access to a lot of different music for the kids. Does that count as screen time? What about allowing school agers to use my computer to research for homework? Oye
Computer, ipad, etc. counts as screen time here and is not allowed for infants at all. What has happened here is the QRIS FCCERS-R book guidelines are being placed in the licensing rules. So this TV rule and many other rules are changing in many states. The TV one isn't a biggie to me but the magnitude of expectations/guidelines here is a biggie. I expect many states to follow. Just like the original poster said, licensing said the rules would "never happen"...well, I have been told that so much here, I don't believe that anymore. IT IS HAPPENING! Like I said the TV rule is no biggie to me but be expected for crazier things to follow!
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
I sometimes use my Chromebook to pull up folk songs (I'm home schooling my preschooler, and Language & Literacy for the first couple of years is mostly nursery rhymes, fairy tales, folk tales and folk songs). I have to turn the Chromebook to the wall or the kids will all end up clustered around it. . . even if it's just a lyric video.
I play music on my computer a lot, mostly YouTube then I minimize the window so there's no visual. I have one kid who will still stare at the computer! Even as everyone else is playing or dancing.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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Screen free here so it wouldn't bother me.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:23 AM
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Wait till they tell you YOU can't be on any screen while the kids are in your care. No phone unless it's business related or emergency either.

Check out New York State's regs.

I still can't believe it.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
So do what your licensor suggested. No one is looking over your shoulder.
Unfortunately, we are being encouraged to fudge, which amounts to downright lying, when asked about certain things. So why the heck create all these rules if providers are being encouraged to fudge them??
It's true...there are a couple of rules that are confusing and I have to fudge on, meaning that the rule doesn't spell out every situation, and I have to choose what is truly in the best interests of the children, even if it isn't the "letter of the law." But I had the idea that those laws were just old. I'm side-swiped that this one is brand new.

In the end i decided that I will tell my licensor that if I average it over a year, I have less than 5 hours/week screen time. Pretty sure. But some weeks go way beyond that and others are naught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveA View Post
Simple- the people making the rules haven't worked with children or feel the need to do "something" regardless of if it makes sense or not. Yes, it's another one from the Ivory Tower crew.

In my case I would ask what counts as screen time. We have a great children's music channel on our cable. I turn it on after lunch for naptime and leave it on the rest of the day. It's music and a couple dozen changing pictures (birds, toys, flowers, etc.) It gives me access to a lot of different music for the kids. Does that count as screen time? What about allowing school agers to use my computer to research for homework? Oye
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
I sometimes use my Chromebook to pull up folk songs (I'm home schooling my preschooler, and Language & Literacy for the first couple of years is mostly nursery rhymes, fairy tales, folk tales and folk songs). I have to turn the Chromebook to the wall or the kids will all end up clustered around it. . . even if it's just a lyric video.
ITA--it's getting so hard to draw a bright line anymore. Music on Youtube...DD's curriculum is on the computer...how can I even stop kids from watching over her shoulder? It's Common Core stuff--how can they tell us one thing then contradict it? I used IXL for my K readiness and also RAZ Kids reading library. Fountas and Pinnel reading levels. And Spellingcity.com--all paid for and prescribed by DD's eSchool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
Computer, ipad, etc. counts as screen time here and is not allowed for infants at all. What has happened here is the QRIS FCCERS-R book guidelines are being placed in the licensing rules. So this TV rule and many other rules are changing in many states. The TV one isn't a biggie to me but the magnitude of expectations/guidelines here is a biggie. I expect many states to follow. Just like the original poster said, licensing said the rules would "never happen"...well, I have been told that so much here, I don't believe that anymore. IT IS HAPPENING! Like I said the TV rule is no biggie to me but be expected for crazier things to follow!
Same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom View Post
I play music on my computer a lot, mostly YouTube then I minimize the window so there's no visual. I have one kid who will still stare at the computer! Even as everyone else is playing or dancing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Wait till they tell you YOU can't be on any screen while the kids are in your care. No phone unless it's business related or emergency either.

Check out New York State's regs.

I still can't believe it.
I'll have to look that one up.

Do they not understand that daycare isn't perfect? I'm a believer in all that I am taught n my classes. I try to follow the rules. But the reality is that my daycare is on the main level of my home. This gives my clients a lower cost and also it gives my kids a more homey environment. I use my personal judgement to decide what is best for the group.

Education is becoming more and more techy. How on earth can I separate it and not allow an infant to lay eyes on it? Not. happening.

I know that some providers abuse screen time, but wow, this new rule is way too rigid.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
So do what your licensor suggested. No one is looking over your shoulder.
Unfortunately, we are being encouraged to fudge, which amounts to downright lying, when asked about certain things. So why the heck create all these rules if providers are being encouraged to fudge them??
Yup. Insane.

I find they're open to interpretation. "Special occasion" pj and movie day the children earned? 30 minute you tube videos for christmas sing a longs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Wait till they tell you YOU can't be on any screen while the kids are in your care. No phone unless it's business related or emergency either.

Check out New York State's regs.

I still can't believe it.
NY provider- necessary for child care. I flat out TOLD my registrar I get on here, pinterest, menu sites, etc. and she said as long as it's not a supervision issue (sight AND sound) I'm fine.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:44 AM
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An hour a day seems like a lot. That seems generous. I do have some screen time available and it's 7:30-8:00. Still the kids have table toys as an option.

I've never been able to handle full-on play before 8:00!

My kids who are under two don't pay attention to TV and don't watch it. I just know how I'd be able to say they are not allowed...they just don't care!

I have a small TV and kids are so used to big, giant screens in their homes. That's when I see under two's attracted to TV. But here they could care less.

If I've had a poor night's sleep or a cold that has me sluggish I just cut back on activities and take it easy and they basically play. Have an easy lunch and I rest when kids are napping (as in relaxing, not doing anything housekeeping related, book keeping, etc.)
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:50 PM
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What is kind of ironic is that once they get to school, they will get a lot of screen time. Not necessarily tv, but computers/tablets. Many schools are budgeting for every kid to have their own tablet to take home. My sister is on the school board in her city and every kid gets a chromebook to take home. My kids are learning on a computer or tablet every day and now, being fairly proficient in how to handle them is almost a requirement for school age anymore. It is odd to see a kid come to school who has no idea how to work one. But NOT at daycare!! We are simply not capable of knowing how to use a learning tool in moderation!
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:27 PM
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this rule makes me laugh. I see where they are trying to prevent "tv" centers, that leave it on 24/7. This isnt really fair to the good providers. Our center will pop on a tv show or movie sometimes when the kids are having a bad day. We have a 4 year old who dosnt nap an plays educational games on the tablet every day during nap. Most days in my room my tablet is on, plugged in, attached to a speaker and playing all sorts of you tube kids music. Makes it easy to let the kids decide what we want to hear
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:39 PM
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I grew up (just summers) in a daycare that had the TV on all day long. It was really just background noise and we did spend a majority of our time outside.. this was back when you could send kids outside unsupervised and know that we would be fine.

I did personally as a kid watch a lot of TV at home and this is still the case in my adult life. When I put the kids down at noon I’ll flip Netflix on while I sit and eat my lunch. Back when my 1s and 2s were babies and not yet on that nap schedule they would be awake while I watched TV sometimes.

I turn kid shows on in the afternoon for 45-60 minutes depending on the time the first wakes up from nap until the start of snack. I’ll show a movie occasionally as well. Honestly no one ever sits through an entire episode of anything. They’ll sit for the first few minutes they wake up and then make their way to the playroom. We also play pandora off the TV and have dance parties a lot now that it’s so cold outside. A couple of my current kids watch a ton of TV in the morning before coming and then go home at night and watch even more. I think it’s pretty common with this generation of parents.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:38 AM
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I won't touch youtube anyways. Have you seen some of the creepy stuff on there? But I was wanting to incorporate music/dance time. Wonder if that is considered screen time since the music comes from the TV.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:26 AM
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These arent state regs, but our center regs...we aren't allowed any screen time for kids 3 and under, and 3 hours or less per week for older kids. My kids watch a 10 minute episode of something every afternoon, and maybe a 3 minute long video that's related to our topic for thr week...

I guess I just don't understand the problem? Do the kids ask for the tv or something?
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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I don't see an issue with this either.
I'm a screen free program so its not an issue here
All the reasons you listed as why you need the TV have alternate answers besides TV so I don't see this as that big of a deal.

Personally, I love TV but I do not believe it belongs in early childhood at all. Everything the TV "can" be used for also has alternate options.

As for school becoming tech-y as someone else mentioned... I agree but these kids get plenty of screen time on their "not at daycare" time so it's not like we are depriving them of learning electronics.

Also, I believe the basics (taking turns, good manners, waiting your turn, raising your hand, being a good friend, etc....) are ALL foundational and important skills to have BEFORE entering public school...if you know pro-social skills, the tech part will be super easy in school.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tigerlilly View Post
I won't touch youtube anyways. Have you seen some of the creepy stuff on there? But I was wanting to incorporate music/dance time. Wonder if that is considered screen time since the music comes from the TV.
I use YouTube a lot. BUT, I make a playlist and play from that. If I was worried about it counting as screen time Id throw a pillow case over the TV
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:59 AM
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I use YouTube a lot. BUT, I make a playlist and play from that. If I was worried about it counting as screen time Id throw a pillow case over the TV
When i used the tv to play youtube music, i always covered it with a blanket lol
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:12 PM
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I won't touch youtube anyways. Have you seen some of the creepy stuff on there? But I was wanting to incorporate music/dance time. Wonder if that is considered screen time since the music comes from the TV.
I use Pandora. I have a subscription to Pandora Plus for my own use, so no ads. I just have some stations for the kids - my favorite is the Kira Wiley one. Its only $5 a month and money well spent in my opinion.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:37 PM
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I won't touch youtube anyways. Have you seen some of the creepy stuff on there? But I was wanting to incorporate music/dance time. Wonder if that is considered screen time since the music comes from the TV.
I have Youtube in restricted mode. It really helps with the creepy stuff, but sometimes it blocks things that I don't see as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Hunni Bee View Post
These arent state regs, but our center regs...we aren't allowed any screen time for kids 3 and under, and 3 hours or less per week for older kids. My kids watch a 10 minute episode of something every afternoon, and maybe a 3 minute long video that's related to our topic for thr week...

I guess I just don't understand the problem? Do the kids ask for the tv or something?
I choose to use common core aligned software in my pre-K program. I also use the TV/Youtube with educational playlists, primarily for my daughter's homeschooling, but my playlists begin with pre-k appropriate material.

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I don't see an issue with this either.
I'm a screen free program so its not an issue here
All the reasons you listed as why you need the TV have alternate answers besides TV so I don't see this as that big of a deal.

There isn't an alternative to my using playlists in my daughter's homeschooling. The point of homeschooling is that parents decide what works best for their child's needs/learning style etc. And the time of day I run them is simply what works best for her and the group. It's a personal, day to day judgement.

I am not sure what a great alternative would be for using screen time to help with separation anxiety/emotional kids. It has really helped me get over some humps with kids like that. I guess that I could probably come up with some other ideas, or you all could, but...why? Weighing it out, why is a little Dora or Elmo such a bad thing for some of these kids who are having struggles. I wean them off it as soon as I can, just as I would wean them off a bottle or anything else.


Personally, I love TV but I do not believe it belongs in early childhood at all. Everything the TV "can" be used for also has alternate options.

I don't really love the TV. I probably average about one hour a year of television programming (we love movies though). We have Roku, but haven't had cable/satelite/streaming service for about ten years, and before that it was just a very basic service--mainly the networks. My issues with the rule aren't due to insensitivity to screen time exposure.

As for school becoming tech-y as someone else mentioned... I agree but these kids get plenty of screen time on their "not at daycare" time so it's not like we are depriving them of learning electronics.

Also, I believe the basics (taking turns, good manners, waiting your turn, raising your hand, being a good friend, etc....) are ALL foundational and important skills to have BEFORE entering public school...if you know pro-social skills, the tech part will be super easy in school.

I'm not using technology in order to teach technology. I use the software in pre-k because it's common core aligned and it works well. It's all software that I am familiar with from DD's homeschool curriculum and own anyway. Using it for 4 yo pre-k is a personal choice but also a solid choice. However, I am also happy that my pre-k crowd learn to use my adaptive computer mouse.
HOWEVER, the good news is that after I replied to the email from the state (pretty much copied and pasted my original post from here), I got a reply saying that they are going to add the words "primary activity" to the new rule. So if I have an activity that is geared to older child, while providing other activities for younger children, I am off the hook if they choose to watch over the older kids' shoulders. Or if I am holding an infant, the holding is considered the "primary activity" even if they are in line of sight of movie time. Or if there are toys provided for a toddler (and there always are) then the toys are the primary activity even if they move where they can see a play list.

I am not going to count hours. I only use it "as needed" so I'm going to choose to not stress about it. It seems impossible to slice and dice all the particulars of each situation.

My 3 yo SPED girl with emotional problems? Well, I guess that's a "special occasion" when she's triggered but I am not able to give her one-on-one. Sometimes Dora really does come to the rescue.
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:30 PM
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There isn't an alternative to my using playlists in my daughter's homeschooling.

The point of homeschooling is that parents decide what works best for their child's needs/learning style etc. And the time of day I run them is simply what works best for her and the group. It's a personal, day to day judgement.
I don't mean this rudely but I am pretty sure the state doesn't see your DD's homeschooling as MORE important than child care regs. kwim?

More than likely the state's response to that would be something along the lines of "We aren't concerned about your DDs homeschooling, we are ONLY concerned about DC children during daycare hours".

It's a choice YOU are making. The state isn't forcing you to homeschool at the same time you offer child care services.

Does that make sense? I am just trying to point out the other side of your argument.
I honestly don't have a this or that stance. Just playing devil's advocate...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
I am not sure what a great alternative would be for using screen time to help with separation anxiety/emotional kids.
Routine and consistency.

Separation anxiety is based off of fear.
Fear of the unknown.

The ONLY way to cure that is to build a secure attachment with the child. A child that has bonded with the provider and knows the provider is consistent with love, assistance and nurturing behaviors will come to trust the provider very quickly.

Using the TV to reduce stress/anxiety for a child is just a crutch... It creates the illusion of something the child is familiar with but since Dora really isn't comforting or reassuring to the child in any long term sense, it's just that...a short term fix for a long term issue.

I choose instead to begin building that attachment from day one. I feel that is more genuine than using cartoon characters to bridge that gap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
It has really helped me get over some humps with kids like that. I guess that I could probably come up with some other ideas, or you all could, but...why? Weighing it out, why is a little Dora or Elmo such a bad thing for some of these kids who are having struggles. I wean them off it as soon as I can, just as I would wean them off a bottle or anything else.
That ^^^ to me is no different than someone saying:

"I lost 100 lbs by starving myself."

or

"I lost 100 lbs by changing my eating habits and exercising."

Yes, the results are the same but the process isn't.
That (for me anyways) is the difference.

FWIW~ I am not at all saying you don't have reason to vent/complain about this... I think FAMILY child care rules and regs are getting ridiculous on many levels.... I am just trying to point out the other side of things.

It's human nature to do what works and not see/understand that there ARE other methods of successfully achieving the same results.
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I don't mean this rudely but I am pretty sure the state doesn't see your DD's homeschooling as MORE important than child care regs. kwim?

More than likely the state's response to that would be something along the lines of "We aren't concerned about your DDs homeschooling, we are ONLY concerned about DC children during daycare hours".

It's a choice YOU are making. The state isn't forcing you to homeschool at the same time you offer child care services.

Does that make sense? I am just trying to point out the other side of your argument.
I honestly don't have a this or that stance. Just playing devil's advocate...

You are a great devil.

Routine and consistency.

Separation anxiety is based off of fear.
Fear of the unknown.

This one 3.5 yo girl is different. My 18 mth old dcb who has major separation (freaked when I changed his crib--hates change) is doing okay. I used a little bit of Elmo with him. It took him five weeks to adjust.

The ONLY way to cure that is to build a secure attachment with the child. A child that has bonded with the provider and knows the provider is consistent with love, assistance and nurturing behaviors will come to trust the provider very quickly.

Using the TV to reduce stress/anxiety for a child is just a crutch... It creates the illusion of something the child is familiar with but since Dora really isn't comforting or reassuring to the child in any long term sense, it's just that...a short term fix for a long term issue.

Yep. It reduces MY stress and anxiety when things get rough. It's a short term coping for very stressful situations. And I keep kids that others would term. I don't over use screen time. I just use it...and don't like the micromanaging or rigidity...and I have some issues with their logic, as I've already explained.

I choose instead to begin building that attachment from day one. I feel that is more genuine than using cartoon characters to bridge that gap.


That ^^^ to me is no different than someone saying:

"I lost 100 lbs by starving myself."

or

"I lost 100 lbs by changing my eating habits and exercising."

Yes, the results are the same but the process isn't.
That (for me anyways) is the difference.

FWIW~ I am not at all saying you don't have reason to vent/complain about this... I think FAMILY child care rules and regs are getting ridiculous on many levels.... I am just trying to point out the other side of things.

It's human nature to do what works and not see/understand that there ARE other methods of successfully achieving the same results.
I have to add five characters...
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