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  #1  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:13 AM
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Default New Law in IL Re: Expulsion From Preschool

Beginning in January 2018 Illinois preschools and licensed daycare providers can no longer simply expel a child for behavior problems

I haven't heard a peep from DCFS on this and I'm not certain whether this law applies to all licensed providers or only those who accept state funds (different places say different things and I have no motive yet to read the actual bill).

http://www.actforchildren.org/wp-con...663-SB1557.pdf

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...?Name=100-0105
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MyAngels View Post
Beginning in January 2018 Illinois preschools and licensed daycare providers can no longer simply expel a child for behavior problems

I haven't heard a peep from DCFS on this and I'm not certain whether this law applies to all licensed providers or only those who accept state funds (different places say different things and I have no motive yet to read the actual bill).

http://www.actforchildren.org/wp-con...663-SB1557.pdf

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...?Name=100-0105
Nope.
Just nope.

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Old 01-11-2018, 11:42 AM
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So. . . if I were in any other profession, and a client physically abused me or another client while on my property, I could refuse service. This doesn't make sense to me.

From the first link: Planned transitions, after documented attempts to address the child’s needs, are not considered expulsions. So there's wiggle room?

The following early childhood programs are prohibited from expelling young children (0-5) due to
child behavior:
 School- and community-based early childhood programs receiving Early Childhood Block
Grant funds, such as Preschool for All and Prevention Initiative, to serve children birth to five
 Licensed child care programs serving children birth to five
o Bill requires DCFS to adopt rules in alignment with requirements of this legislation
 Note: Expulsions are already prohibited for Head Start and Early Head Start programs


On the plus side, how many of your kids with major behavioral issues are the offspring of PARENTS with major behavioral issues (on-time pick up, on-time payment, following the policy handbook)? Termination for nonpayment will probably kick WAY up when providers realize the fastest way to remove a difficult child is to stand their ground on their fee policies.

When a child exhibits consistently challenging behaviors, the ECE program or provider must
document:
 Initial observations of challenging behaviors
 Communication with and participation of family
 Intervention plan and strategies, including the use of or attempts to access available external
resources
 Instances where child is ultimately transitioned out of program
Documentation allows ECE programs to show that attempts were made to continue serving the
child, ensuring that transitioning the child out of the program is the last resort.


That is still termination for challenging behavior, just under a nicer name-- "transitioning out." As in, "Bob, you're being rightsized."

What is a planned transition?
If available resources have been exhausted and it is the professional judgment of the provider that
transitioning the child to another setting is best for his/her wellbeing or that of his/her peers, the
provider should work with the family to identify and transition the child to a different setting. This
includes making referrals to other providers and planning with the parents, and new provider when
applicable, to ensure continuity of services.
What if the child poses an immediate threat to the safety of him/herself or other children?
In the case of serious safety threat, the child may be temporarily removed from attendance in the
group setting. The temporary removal of a child should trigger the process outlined above, including
engaging the family and available resources as part of an intervention plan, as well as working to
return the child to a group setting as soon as possible. If it is the professional judgment of the provider
that it is in the best interest to transition the child to a different setting, the provider will initiate the
planned transition process.


Isn't this just termination as most of us are already practicing it?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:51 AM
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And the second link is a first-rate example of confusing correlation with causation. There are many, many, MANY factors that lead to disproportionate and often unfair expulsion of impoverished and minority children, and curbing expulsion isn't a magical fix to all the related educational ills that are linked to expulsion.

But, sure. Ban expulsion and that'll fix everything.

This is why I homeschool, folks.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pestle View Post
And the second link is a first-rate example of confusing correlation with causation. There are many, many, MANY factors that lead to disproportionate and often unfair expulsion of impoverished and minority children, and curbing expulsion isn't a magical fix to all the related educational ills that are linked to expulsion.

But, sure. Ban expulsion and that'll fix everything.

This is why I homeschool, folks.
Yep, part of why I homeschooled my 3 also... and some of these rules are why I stay legally exempt in some states... I use to do infant care in IL; Glad I'm not there now
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:43 PM
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Yep, part of why I homeschooled my 3 also... and some of these rules are why I stay legally exempt in some states... I use to do infant care in IL; Glad I'm not there now
You're up near Knoxville, right? I just had a disaster--got to the last 8 inches of the border on a shawl I was knitting and ran out of yarn at pick up time yesterday. Called the yarn store in Knoxville, called a relative in Knoxville, and if everything's gone well, there's a single skein of yarn in the right dye lot waiting for me at the relative's house.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:45 PM
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You're up near Knoxville, right? I just had a disaster--got to the last 8 inches of the border on a shawl I was knitting and ran out of yarn at pick up time yesterday. Called the yarn store in Knoxville, called a relative in Knoxville, and if everything's gone well, there's a single skein of yarn in the right dye lot waiting for me at the relative's house.
That's too funny... I live in Blount Co, but end up shopping in Knox all the time lol
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:49 PM
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whaaaaat?
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MyAngels View Post
Beginning in January 2018 Illinois preschools and licensed daycare providers can no longer simply expel a child for behavior problems

I haven't heard a peep from DCFS on this and I'm not certain whether this law applies to all licensed providers or only those who accept state funds (different places say different things and I have no motive yet to read the actual bill).

http://www.actforchildren.org/wp-con...663-SB1557.pdf

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...?Name=100-0105
Yeah well provider can terminate for another reason. Late payment, late pick up etc.. kids with behavior problems will most likely have parent issues also. When I have had to terminate a kid for bad behavior the parents always had issues also. I will close before I let the state tell me which clients I have to take and keep.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:00 PM
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other reasons to terminate

non payment
rude parent
not following contract/policy
downsizing for my own health....

yeah, this isn't really going to affect home daycare.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:07 PM
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I knew you guys would love this one

This is such a slippery slope. Personally if I felt that I might have to terminate because of behavior I would definitely not document that behavior but find another reason to terminate. It also gives me less incentive to at least try to work out unwanted behaviors. It becomes more of a term early, term often choice on my part.

Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't put that in writing
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:50 PM
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Ive been following this and it’s still so unclear! It sounded like it only affects those that accept funding from the state. Then sounds like you can’t expel but you can suspend for an extended period of time! It’s just a cluster mess.

Did you see the memo about how we have to test our water for lead immediately but that guidelines will be updated in the coming months of how and when we’re expected to do it?

Last edited by sahm1225; 01-11-2018 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Can’t spell
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:06 PM
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I've not heard anything about lead testing, but my rep e-mailed me recently to ask me when my house was built Probably something to do with it I guess.

For some reason I don't get the updates in the mail anymore with rule changes and the like. Probably some stupid cost cutting measure -saving the state one stamp at a time
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sahm1225 View Post
Ive been following this and it’s still so unclear! It sounded like it only affects those that accept funding from the state. Then sounds like you can’t expel but you can suspend for an extended period of time! It’s just a cluster mess.

Did you see the memo about how we have to test our water for lead immediately but that guidelines will be updated in the coming months of how and when we’re expected to do it?
Sec. 5.10. Child care limitation on expulsions. Consistent with the purposes of this amendatory Act of the 100th General Assembly and the requirements therein under paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 2-3.71 of the School Code, the Department, in consultation with the Governor's Office of Early Childhood Development and the State Board of Education, shall adopt rules prohibiting the use of expulsion due to a child's persistent and serious challenging behaviors in licensed day care centers, day care homes, and group day care homes. The rulemaking shall address, at a minimum, requirements for icensees to establish intervention and transition policies, notify parents of policies, document intervention steps, and collect and report data on children transitioning out of the program.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:23 AM
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In 11 years I've done 1 immediate term one DCK for behavior. The kid I termed got threw a wooden block at a toddler's head then tried to throw the rest of the box of blocks at me. All because the toddler was sitting where he wanted to go. I'm not losing 3 other families who are worried about their child's safety so some DCFS REMF can feel like they've "done something".

Bottom line is it's my program- I decide who's in it and who's not.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:58 AM
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I've posted about this before. It has been coming for a while. We will soon have to adopt HR rules to enforce "accountability" of providers. It is no longer "professional" to not be able to manage all behavioral issues without complaint. After all, the goal is to keep parents at work, kids out of their homes and everyone on the same curriculum with the same environment from birth on. One nation, under core.

Public schools now require armed resource officers because of similar legislation. Will we soon qualify to hire them, too?

While I fully support leveling the playing field for poor children (or kids with disengaged parents), I disagree this is the way to do it. I think we should look for the middle ground.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
other reasons to terminate

non payment
rude parent
not following contract/policy
downsizing for my own health....

yeah, this isn't really going to affect home daycare.
I had a family in care over a period of 8 years.
3 kids. Each a "perfect" candidate for termination (ie behavioral issues)
Each child had a unique set of behavioral issues.
None requiring ECE intervention or anything like that.
all behavioral issues that stemmed from "no cry" parenting at it's finest.
Mom ALWAYS made sure to have ALL the required supplies, was timely to a tee, never paid late (well state paid so not a family responsibility) was never rude or disrepsctful to me.

IME, the families that have the worst behaving children are the "ideal" or picture perfect daycare clients ...almost as if they know... kwim?
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:08 AM
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I've posted about this before. It has been coming for a while. We will soon have to adopt HR rules to enforce "accountability" of providers. It is no longer "professional" to not be able to manage all behavioral issues without complaint. After all, the goal is to keep parents at work, kids out of their homes and everyone on the same curriculum with the same environment from birth on. One nation, under core.

Public schools now require armed resource officers because of similar legislation. Will we soon qualify to hire them, too?

While I fully support leveling the playing field for poor children (or kids with disengaged parents), I disagree this is the way to do it. I think we should look for the middle ground.
This is the argument here....with the new rules coming (and they are here just awaiting the date to be implemented), is the state/federal going to pay for education to diagnose such issues or pay for qualified personnel to be on staff in our programs to deal with these diagnosed issues in children. Providers here have had to develop "explulsion policies" but it is like everything else, gotta be careful with the wording and not sure theh state isn't going to give us "their" expulsion policy. Just another way for the our programs to be "dictated with unrealistic/crazy rules".
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I had a family in care over a period of 8 years.
3 kids. Each a "perfect" candidate for termination (ie behavioral issues)
Each child had a unique set of behavioral issues.
None requiring ECE intervention or anything like that.
all behavioral issues that stemmed from "no cry" parenting at it's finest.
Mom ALWAYS made sure to have ALL the required supplies, was timely to a tee, never paid late (well state paid so not a family responsibility) was never rude or disrepsctful to me.

IME, the families that have the worst behaving children are the "ideal" or picture perfect daycare clients ...almost as if they know... kwim?
Yes! The one family I have termed because of behavior, the mom "sucked up" to me. Always tipped good, brought random treats to share, gave me gifts for my Birthday, Mother's Day, Christmas, etc. Her extra gifts only worked so long before I couldn't take the behavior any more. Ironically, the DCB that gives me some issues now, Mom is the exact same way!
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:35 AM
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How quickly they forget.

The reason we were pushed to terminate children who were not doing well in our program was because of the high numbers of children whom were being abused, neglected and killed in daycares because of those behaviors. It was proven that most of those same kids could have thrived in different environments if given the gift of termination. ("can't afford to terminate" + "don't like this kid" = bad outcome)

Pendulum swing to no terminations will equate to more daycare child abuse cases. This is not new math, here. Waiting for the 2020 headlines. "Another child killed in daycare!"
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:49 AM
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The center I worked at operated by this philosophy but it was due to the fact that my boss was a total people pleaser. It was less policy and more she didn’t want to upset anyone. Honestly shes still there and I consider her a friend of mine but she’s awful at her job and I wouldn’t put my kids in any of their programs.

One child in particular was violent and hurting himself, staff and others on the daily. He had been kicked out of other daycares in town. Nothing was accomplished until the child he hurt one day happened to be my bosses bosses grandchild

Child started K and made it a whole year in the same school, he was in the class of one of my cousins so from the words of a 5 year old “he’s in the office everyday”. This year he is in 1st and they moved him to another school yet again. My best friend is one of his specials teachers.. he’s still raising hell although not as many violent outbursts.

I have termed one family since I started, my first non related family. Behavior started spiraling at the end and May have been “the straw the broke the camels back” but the family had so many more issues I can’t even begin to make a list.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:58 AM
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The center I worked at operated by this philosophy but it was due to the fact that my boss was a total people pleaser. It was less policy and more she didn’t want to upset anyone. Honestly shes still there and I consider her a friend of mine but she’s awful at her job and I wouldn’t put my kids in any of their programs.
That in a nutshell is probably the biggest issue most providers have.

They go into this field because they tend to be nurturing caregivers that have big hearts and emotional connections.

ALL of which are excellent traits for a caregiver to have.

None of those however translate into business owner well.

It's hard to operate a business when you "feel" for your clients.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:01 AM
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How quickly they forget.

The reason we were pushed to terminate children who were not doing well in our program was because of the high numbers of children whom were being abused, neglected and killed in daycares because of those behaviors. It was proven that most of those same kids could have thrived in different environments if given the gift of termination. ("can't afford to terminate" + "don't like this kid" = bad outcome)

Pendulum swing to no terminations will equate to more daycare child abuse cases. This is not new math, here. Waiting for the 2020 headlines. "Another child killed in daycare!"
This is what I thought as well. But the mental health and well being of the provider is rarely considered. And after he/she snaps, the entire community of providers are condemned as monsters and untrustworthy. I wish some of these higher ups would have to sit in a room with a screaming child who cannot be consoled for 8-10 hours a day for a week or three and see how their mental health stacks up at the end. Everyone has their breaking point and that point should not be decided by the state.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:07 AM
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This is what I thought as well. But the mental health and well being of the provider is rarely considered. And after he/she snaps, the entire community of providers are condemned as monsters and untrustworthy. I wish some of these higher ups would have to sit in a room with a screaming child who cannot be consoled for 8-10 hours a day for a week or three and see how their mental health stacks up at the end. Everyone has their breaking point and that point should not be decided by the state.
Pilots are counselled about the risks of noise stress on their decision making processes and mental health. There are stringent regulations for mandatory rest and limiting noise exposure for passenger safety. They have only one job task to complete during their shift.

I guess it is simply less expensive to lose a few kids each year.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:37 AM
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Will the provider still be able to term during the "trial period" as stated in their contract for whatever reason? If so then they can extend their trial period to months rather then a couple of weeks, to find out if the child has any behavior issues.

Or I hate to say this, but if it gets to be too much just raise the rates so high for that child the parents can no longer afford the care and will be forced to go elsewhere.

I just hope they don't pass anything like this in my state. I think a lot of daycare businesses will close
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
This is what I thought as well. But the mental health and well being of the provider is rarely considered. And after he/she snaps, the entire community of providers are condemned as monsters and untrustworthy. I wish some of these higher ups would have to sit in a room with a screaming child who cannot be consoled for 8-10 hours a day for a week or three and see how their mental health stacks up at the end. Everyone has their breaking point and that point should not be decided by the state.
This is important to consider.

I have been a member of forum boards now for almost a decade and I cringe every time I see a provider post something about a non-stop screaming baby or child that requires 95% of their attention due to unwanted behaviors and ANY time someone suggest terming the provider either doesn't want to lose the income or they don't want to be viewed as a failure.

That cycle (fear of income lose/ being labeled a failure etc) needs to be addressed for the mental health and well being of the provider.

Which in turns benefits the children in care..... why is that so easy to understand but so hard for any state/licensing agency etc to recognize, understand and change?

The issue for child care IMHO, lies in the well being of the provider. Providers are the foundation in early childhood education nowadays but yet the least amount of time, attention, consideration AND PAY is provided to THE most important part of the entire equation.

That is nothing more than a complete failure.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I had a family in care over a period of 8 years.
3 kids. Each a "perfect" candidate for termination (ie behavioral issues)
Each child had a unique set of behavioral issues.
None requiring ECE intervention or anything like that.
all behavioral issues that stemmed from "no cry" parenting at it's finest.
Mom ALWAYS made sure to have ALL the required supplies, was timely to a tee, never paid late (well state paid so not a family responsibility) was never rude or disrepsctful to me.

IME, the families that have the worst behaving children are the "ideal" or picture perfect daycare clients ...almost as if they know... kwim?
I have one like this...but because her parents are great clients I keep her. It's more tolerable if you have a good parent/provider relationship. Her issues are NOT parent caused though... failing to work on behavior issues at home is a direct violation of the terms of my contract.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
This is important to consider.

I have been a member of forum boards now for almost a decade and I cringe every time I see a provider post something about a non-stop screaming baby or child that requires 95% of their attention due to unwanted behaviors and ANY time someone suggest terming the provider either doesn't want to lose the income or they don't want to be viewed as a failure.

That cycle (fear of income lose/ being labeled a failure etc) needs to be addressed for the mental health and well being of the provider.

Which in turns benefits the children in care..... why is that so easy to understand but so hard for any state/licensing agency etc to recognize, understand and change?

The issue for child care IMHO, lies in the well being of the provider. Providers are the foundation in early childhood education nowadays but yet the least amount of time, attention, consideration AND PAY is provided to THE most important part of the entire equation.


That is nothing more than a complete failure.
It is like that old saying, "if momma ain't happy, nobody is happy!" They want daycare to provide these stress free, nurturing environments, yet they never seem to factor in the provider's stress and well being when making decisions like these that are suppose to "improve" daycare.

I may have missed this info, but is this only suppose to apply to those who accept state pay or is it for private pay daycare too?
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by amberrose3dg View Post
Yeah well provider can terminate for another reason. Late payment, late pick up etc.. kids with behavior problems will most likely have parent issues also. When I have had to terminate a kid for bad behavior the parents always had issues also. I will close before I let the state tell me which clients I have to take and keep.
I have found the opposite, unfortunately. This may be an economic factor, but in my cases of extreme behaviors in children, the parents were the over the top, coddling, helicopter type.

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Sec. 5.10. Child care limitation on expulsions. Consistent with the purposes of this amendatory Act of the 100th General Assembly and the requirements therein under paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 2-3.71 of the School Code, the Department, in consultation with the Governor's Office of Early Childhood Development and the State Board of Education, shall adopt rules prohibiting the use of expulsion due to a child's persistent and serious challenging behaviors in licensed day care centers, day care homes, and group day care homes. The rulemaking shall address, at a minimum, requirements for icensees to establish intervention and transition policies, notify parents of policies, document intervention steps, and collect and report data on children transitioning out of the program.
INSANITY. I would change my hours, or call for pick up (can't term, didn't say you HAD to keep the child in care) until the parent terminated, etc.

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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I've posted about this before. It has been coming for a while. We will soon have to adopt HR rules to enforce "accountability" of providers. It is no longer "professional" to not be able to manage all behavioral issues without complaint. After all, the goal is to keep parents at work, kids out of their homes and everyone on the same curriculum with the same environment from birth on. One nation, under core.

Public schools now require armed resource officers because of similar legislation. Will we soon qualify to hire them, too?

While I fully support leveling the playing field for poor children (or kids with disengaged parents), I disagree this is the way to do it. I think we should look for the middle ground.
I agree, and I am SO saddened with the way this is going.

I also agree to the rest of the bolded, these children NEED help. From cradle to bars. Head start is a total failure. I honestly think we need parent education, parent initiatives. Want free childcare? Show up to these parenting classes, complete a home study, maintain on time attendance. You CANNOT change the outcome for the child with a prek program- it's TOO late. You have to CHANGE HOME first.

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Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
This is what I thought as well. But the mental health and well being of the provider is rarely considered. And after he/she snaps, the entire community of providers are condemned as monsters and untrustworthy. I wish some of these higher ups would have to sit in a room with a screaming child who cannot be consoled for 8-10 hours a day for a week or three and see how their mental health stacks up at the end. Everyone has their breaking point and that point should not be decided by the state.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:42 AM
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You have to CHANGE HOME first.
And that is why the home visiting program is being pushed here. They want us actually teaching parents child development, health/safety, nutrition and discipline techniques in their own homes.

I resisted at first because I saw the over reach into other peoples homes and a drain to my time and resources when my kids also needed me. Now that I am empty nest, I can see an opportunity to serve my community in a real way.

Imagine what all those retired teachers could do.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:44 AM
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In 11 years I've done 1 immediate term one DCK for behavior. The kid I termed got threw a wooden block at a toddler's head then tried to throw the rest of the box of blocks at me. All because the toddler was sitting where he wanted to go. I'm not losing 3 other families who are worried about their child's safety so some DCFS REMF can feel like they've "done something".

Bottom line is it's my program- I decide who's in it and who's not.
I termed a boy who because of his apparent NEED for THAT easter egg (Easter egg hunt from he**).....ended up pushing a kid and causing a cut close to his eye that needed several stitches on the same day his grandpa was getting his leg amputated. The next week he threw a large rock at another kid because he was mad. This was also my only term because of a child.

I termed a parent because he stood in my way and kept me from being able to get out of my kitchen. He as acting in a threatening way and made me feel unsafe. He was telling me I should tell all the parents to beat their kids like he does. I stayed very calm while he wagged his finger at me and made me feel trapped. He left and I cried and shook but was so proud of myself for keeping calm. I still had several kids present. Yes...I called DCS.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:50 AM
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You CANNOT change the outcome for the child with a prek program- it's TOO late. You have to CHANGE HOME first.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:56 AM
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And that is why the home visiting program is being pushed here. They want us actually teaching parents child development, health/safety, nutrition and discipline techniques in their own homes.

I resisted at first because I saw the over reach into other peoples homes and a drain to my time and resources when my kids also needed me. Now that I am empty nest, I can see an opportunity to serve my community in a real way.

Imagine what all those retired teachers could do.
That is the job description for home visitors working with Head Start. While good in theory, I don't believe it makes a positive impact or provides tools for positive parenting in future years.

As an empty nester I see it as a positive way to give back for sure but I don't see the idea WITHIN Head Start or Child Care programs as worthwhile or beneficial.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:05 AM
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That is the job description for home visitors working with Head Start. While good in theory, I don't believe it makes a positive impact or provides tools for positive parenting in future years.

As an empty nester I see it as a positive way to give back for sure but I don't see the idea WITHIN Head Start or Child Care programs as worthwhile or beneficial.
Exactly. It is linked in with meals-on-wheels, soup kitchen, child advocacy office, DV shelter, rehab and the family court system in my town. (I pm'd you a link)
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:06 AM
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I have found the opposite, unfortunately. This may be an economic factor, but in my cases of extreme behaviors in children, the parents were the over the top, coddling, helicopter type.



INSANITY. I would change my hours, or call for pick up (can't term, didn't say you HAD to keep the child in care) until the parent terminated, etc.



I agree, and I am SO saddened with the way this is going.

I also agree to the rest of the bolded, these children NEED help. From cradle to bars. Head start is a total failure. I honestly think we need parent education, parent initiatives. Want free childcare? Show up to these parenting classes, complete a home study, maintain on time attendance. You CANNOT change the outcome for the child with a prek program- it's TOO late. You have to CHANGE HOME first.



I meant that the children have issues because of the parents.
For example I had to terminate a little boy who hit and kicked and would not listen. He was out of control at 3. His dad was a wonderful dad on the surface. Older gentleman(he was like 55 with a 3 year old) who loved his kid and was there for him. He would not correct his kid and he was a spoiled brat.Dad would tell me he would take away his games, ipad etc not get that special cheeseburger treat to fix his behavior. Dad never stuck to his word. They were just empty threats. He hit one of the kids in a head with a toy because he wanted what the kid had and refused to wait his turn."I want it and I want it now!" I was done. Dad had to go back to driving him an hour each way to and from daycare since no one else would take him.He should be old enough to be in school now and I can bet his behaviors did not improve because his dad wanted to be his best buddy.
Children like this are not safe in a group setting. No law should force a provider to put up with that. We are not miracle workers we cannot fix these behaviors on our own. If they are like this more than likely the parents are clueless , powerless or do not care to do anything about it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:10 PM
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Here is a webinar explaining it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9mjTggMnE

One very important take away is that the parents are not required to do ANYTHING in the process of assessment, planning, implementation, or transitioning.

They "have the right" to remove their child or switch programs but they are not required to be a part of the process in any way. If the child is short term suspended then they would have to find care but other than that, I can't see where they have anything they MUST do.

They also aren't required to divulge to the receiving care provider that the child received a dis-enrollment plan developed over the long and arduous process of terming the child from the previous caregiver. Once that information is on the table the parent will have a hard time finding an open slot.

This was discussed on the Illinois Child Care board on Facebook. This is some of my response:

"I am gobsmacked that there is zero responsibility on the parents.

Parents of violent children need to be required to take extensive parenting classes before their child qualifies to not be expelled without all these requirements are placed on the provider. The parenting classes need to include extensive in home visits.

I don't want a mental health child worker in my business teaching me to care for a violent child.

Why can't we have a ZERO tolerance for violence? Who came up with this notion that violence in small children is normal?

Ask your grandparents and great aunts and uncles if they ever witnessed a child kicking, biting, spitting, cursing, and hitting an adult. Ask your relatives that are over the age of forty if they witnessed that.

What the state doesn't get is we are in this business to make money. We should not be required to engage in mental health training and keeping children who require one to one care because they cost too much staff time and put our relationship with our other clients at risk of leaving.

If one group of children are at risk of expulsion require they take parenting and intensive therapy classes BEFORE they are allowed to enroll in daycare using state funds. One expulsion and YOU are required to keep the child out of care until YOU have been trained. If you don't want to take classes and have home workers then make private arrangements and keep your kid out of child care.

The State doesn't require gas stations, fast food restaurants, and stores to offer only healthy food because we have an obesity epidemic which far surpasses the issue of early child care expulsions.

They also threw in that birth to five exclusions are higher than k to 12. Well no duh
Schools have principals, counsellors, multiple aides, funding for the care of special needs kids, SPACE to separate.

An in home provider has none of that. A centers profit margin is too small to offer that.

I keep thinking of the New York City preschools who put their applicants thru multiple interviews with testing of the children and extensive interviewing of the parents. They offer limited slots and being rich doesn't guarantee your child a slot. Wealthy parents are a dime a dozen.

Why are they allowed to be so selective and term services so easily and we aren't? I promise the State would NEVER impose something like this on a profession of men.

It's time for providers to be VERY VERY selective of the parents and children BEFORE enrollment and have a no fee interview and testing process that includes having the child attend one day to a week before an enrollment is offered. Each parent needs to know that there are multiple families vying for the slot or slots and they will be notified by x day if they are chosen. No excuses given for not being chosen. Nothing in writing about behavior and no discussion of behavior. Just do free days without enrollment and end the free days if the child exhibits behavior that will not fit for the business.his infuriates me.

Children with disabilities are already covered under the Disability act. Now they have given the same protections to children who behave badly.

I would highly recommend a FREE pre enrollment period of at least a week wherein you don't offer enrollment until you are able to assess the behaviors. This will be markedly cheaper than going through their disengagement process.

I would also have a parental behavior contract where you can sever services for the parent without mentioning the child's behavior.

I do three interviews before I offer a slot. I do not offer a contract for three to six months.

This is a bully move."

Last edited by nannyde; 01-12-2018 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:31 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrJY20it_G0
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:06 PM
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That was disturbing.
On several levels
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:57 PM
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That was disturbing.
On several levels
And when he enrolls in an Illinois daycare they must keep him. They must document his behavior. They must develop behavior plans. They must have mental health consultants come to work with them to work with him. They must document the intervention and his response. They can short term suspend but they must let him back as soon as possible. They must develop a transition plan before they can term him. They must come up with some plan that includes a place that he can go to. They must work with and report to every mental and health worker that serves him of their plans and have their input.
They must report to their state all documentation, intervention, and assessments. They must report to their state his age, ethnicity, and tenure in care.

All that work on them and his mother doesn't have to do a single thing except arrange care on his short term suspensions.

She doesn't have to be a part of any plan, doesn't have to work with any professionals, doesn't have to be involved in any assessment, and doesn't have to participate in any way in a transition plan which would markedly delay an actual transition.

The child care gets to devote very expensive resources that they aren't compensated for in any way and the parent gets all the services for her kid for free.

The poor kids that are unfortunately under the same roof get to be his victims both physically and emotionally. They get no protection. The staff who deal with him not only have to lay witness to his violence but also get to get brutalized by him. He's quite experienced with females who are the recipients of his violence and can't or won't do anything but say words to him or attempt distraction rewards that escalate in time and reward as his behavior escalates.

The business gets to loose the business of his victims too.

It's so ridiculous. It's so wrong. Violent children have no place in group child care unless the business CHOOSES to serve their violence. It should not be forced upon them without choice or very very high compensation.

Last edited by nannyde; 01-12-2018 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:39 PM
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I termed a boy who because of his apparent NEED for THAT easter egg (Easter egg hunt from he**).....ended up pushing a kid and causing a cut close to his eye that needed several stitches on the same day his grandpa was getting his leg amputated. The next week he threw a large rock at another kid because he was mad. This was also my only term because of a child.

I termed a parent because he stood in my way and kept me from being able to get out of my kitchen. He as acting in a threatening way and made me feel unsafe. He was telling me I should tell all the parents to beat their kids like he does. I stayed very calm while he wagged his finger at me and made me feel trapped. He left and I cried and shook but was so proud of myself for keeping calm. I still had several kids present. Yes...I called DCS.
I had a father do that to me my first year, in front of my own children, as well as the daycare kids (I was widowed already); they were termed that day after the police escorted him out of my home (My older dd called 911)... worse, the only reason his kids came is because SAHM wanted private time & they took 6 weeks vacation yearly. I grew a backbone pretty damn quick
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:30 PM
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http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2017/...next-we-didn-t

Check out this article.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
Here is a webinar explaining it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9mjTggMnE

One very important take away is that the parents are not required to do ANYTHING in the process of assessment, planning, implementation, or transitioning.

They "have the right" to remove their child or switch programs but they are not required to be a part of the process in any way. If the child is short term suspended then they would have to find care but other than that, I can't see where they have anything they MUST do.

They also aren't required to divulge to the receiving care provider that the child received a dis-enrollment plan developed over the long and arduous process of terming the child from the previous caregiver. Once that information is on the table the parent will have a hard time finding an open slot.

This was discussed on the Illinois Child Care board on Facebook. This is some of my response:

"I am gobsmacked that there is zero responsibility on the parents.

Parents of violent children need to be required to take extensive parenting classes before their child qualifies to not be expelled without all these requirements are placed on the provider. The parenting classes need to include extensive in home visits.

I don't want a mental health child worker in my business teaching me to care for a violent child.

Why can't we have a ZERO tolerance for violence? Who came up with this notion that violence in small children is normal?

Ask your grandparents and great aunts and uncles if they ever witnessed a child kicking, biting, spitting, cursing, and hitting an adult. Ask your relatives that are over the age of forty if they witnessed that.

What the state doesn't get is we are in this business to make money. We should not be required to engage in mental health training and keeping children who require one to one care because they cost too much staff time and put our relationship with our other clients at risk of leaving.

If one group of children are at risk of expulsion require they take parenting and intensive therapy classes BEFORE they are allowed to enroll in daycare using state funds. One expulsion and YOU are required to keep the child out of care until YOU have been trained. If you don't want to take classes and have home workers then make private arrangements and keep your kid out of child care.

The State doesn't require gas stations, fast food restaurants, and stores to offer only healthy food because we have an obesity epidemic which far surpasses the issue of early child care expulsions.

They also threw in that birth to five exclusions are higher than k to 12. Well no duh
Schools have principals, counsellors, multiple aides, funding for the care of special needs kids, SPACE to separate.

An in home provider has none of that. A centers profit margin is too small to offer that.

I keep thinking of the New York City preschools who put their applicants thru multiple interviews with testing of the children and extensive interviewing of the parents. They offer limited slots and being rich doesn't guarantee your child a slot. Wealthy parents are a dime a dozen.

Why are they allowed to be so selective and term services so easily and we aren't? I promise the State would NEVER impose something like this on a profession of men.

It's time for providers to be VERY VERY selective of the parents and children BEFORE enrollment and have a no fee interview and testing process that includes having the child attend one day to a week before an enrollment is offered. Each parent needs to know that there are multiple families vying for the slot or slots and they will be notified by x day if they are chosen. No excuses given for not being chosen. Nothing in writing about behavior and no discussion of behavior. Just do free days without enrollment and end the free days if the child exhibits behavior that will not fit for the business.his infuriates me.

Children with disabilities are already covered under the Disability act. Now they have given the same protections to children who behave badly.

I would highly recommend a FREE pre enrollment period of at least a week wherein you don't offer enrollment until you are able to assess the behaviors. This will be markedly cheaper than going through their disengagement process.

I would also have a parental behavior contract where you can sever services for the parent without mentioning the child's behavior.

I do three interviews before I offer a slot. I do not offer a contract for three to six months.

This is a bully move."
I'm over 40. My mother is almost 70. I'll never forget I went to a training and the younger women there called my mother a bad mother because I had told them when I went to kindergarten I was unruly one day and my teacher called me stupid. When I was picked up, my mother was told of what I did and how stupid I was. Furthermore, if I kept acting such away I could stay at home until I learned to stop being unruly. My mother made me apologize to the teacher. Oh, how times have changed.
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