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  #1  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:47 AM
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Default Religious Exemption

Hello, do any of you have a religious exempt daycare? I am trying to find out more information.

My states says...
A special school or class in which more than 75 percent of the time that children are present is spent in religious instruction. Religious instruction is defined to include such developmentally appropriate ch
ildren's activities as worship, singing religious songs, listening to religious stories, learning and practicing religious cultural activities, and participating in religious celebrations

I would like to use bekabook curriculum to help achieve the 75%.


I would love any help I can get!
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hello, do any of you have a religious exempt daycare? I am trying to find out more information.

My states says...
A special school or class in which more than 75 percent of the time that children are present is spent in religious instruction. Religious instruction is defined to include such developmentally appropriate ch
ildren's activities as worship, singing religious songs, listening to religious stories, learning and practicing religious cultural activities, and participating in religious celebrations

I would like to use bekabook curriculum to help achieve the 75%.


I would love any help I can get!
Can I ask why you are trying to be religiously exempt?

Why not just operate a religious based program?

What state are you in?
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:55 AM
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Exempt from licensing?
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:58 AM
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I can tell you there is a huge resentment of this tax and oversight loophole.

I hope to see it gone in my lifetime.

IMHO, If you are charging for daycare, you should be treated the same as any other daycare option.
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I can tell you there is a huge resentment of this tax and oversight loophole.

I hope to see it gone in my lifetime.

IMHO, If you are charging for daycare, you should be treated the same as any other daycare option.


There is a christian preschool near me. Not licensed, tax free. It is so over ratio it's ridiculous, very poor quality. It achieves it's time by having only biblical toys, stories, movies and songs.
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I can tell you there is a huge resentment of this tax and oversight loophole.

I hope to see it gone in my lifetime.

IMHO, If you are charging for daycare, you should be treated the same as any other daycare option.
Agreed.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2016, 01:40 PM
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I have a lovely 15 year old who babysits my children when DH and I go out. She keeps bugging me to hire her as my assistant this summer, but I can't as she isn't 16 yet. Otherwise I would love to have a helper and give her some good work experience.

This is on topic - because the place her mom works (a religious daycare center) regularly hires 14 and 15yo "helpers" and doesn't have to worry about licensing rules and pays them less that min wage under the table. Its frustrating.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2016, 01:41 PM
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Here you are still required to have a backgound check and I believe there is still ratios in place.
I would be opening a early learning program, offering Early Preschool, preschool, PreK and Kindergarten.
I am not trying to get out of following any rules or having a ton of kids. Probably just a few per class.

I would still pay all taxes, take classes, etc. I am hoping to become non-profit and charge on a sliding scale or offer tuition.

This is not for me to make a huge amount of money, or get around rules, but to do what I love!

Still looking for help, if anyone has any information. I know there are only a handful of states that offer this exemption.
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2016, 01:45 PM
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Yes, there is plenty of people out there that take advantage of this, I understand that. This is not my intention.
I will stay within ratios
I will pay taxes
I will get a background check, and will require any helpers/employees to do the same
I will follow rules/regulations
I WILL operate a quality program.
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2016, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Yes, there is plenty of people out there that take advantage of this, I understand that. This is not my intention.
I will stay within ratios
I will pay taxes
I will get a background check, and will require any helpers/employees to do the same
I will follow rules/regulations
I WILL operate a quality program.
Then what, exactly, are you seeking an exemption for?

I do offer a christian preschool program as a legally licensed home daycare. No exemption application required.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Then what, exactly, are you seeking an exemption for?

I do offer a christian preschool program as a legally licensed home daycare. No exemption application required.
Same.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:33 PM
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I have nothing against holding a license, I just wanted to see what information out there on it, and if others had done it.

I have yet to see any of that, and instead a whole lot of people assuming I'm trying to break rules.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I have nothing against holding a license, I just wanted to see what information out there on it, and if others had done it.

I have yet to see any of that, and instead a whole lot of people assuming I'm trying to break rules.
I don't assume you are trying to break rules. I am a legally unlicensed provider, quite a few of us here are. I think my by question is why bother with it. It sounds to me like it would be far more hassle to prove that you are exempt than to just follow the licensing means. Proving all that sounds like a nightmare to me.
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Old 06-22-2016, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hello, do any of you have a religious exempt daycare? I am trying to find out more information.

My states says...
A special school or class in which more than 75 percent of the time that children are present is spent in religious instruction. Religious instruction is defined to include such developmentally appropriate ch
ildren's activities as worship, singing religious songs, listening to religious stories, learning and practicing religious cultural activities, and participating in religious celebrations

I would like to use bekabook curriculum to help achieve the 75%.


I would love any help I can get!
If you plan on paying taxes & going thru background checks, why Religious exemption? Most churches/religions try to be exempt to avoid taxes and all the government intervention, like 501 type. Just go licensed and offer instruction if you plan on jumping all the state hoops.
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2016, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I have nothing against holding a license, I just wanted to see what information out there on it, and if others had done it.

I have yet to see any of that, and instead a whole lot of people assuming I'm trying to break rules.
I think you may be taking a general statement and direct question as an accusation. I told you why Religious Exemption (a tax and oversight free loophole) is disfavored and asked why you want to do it. You stated that you want oversight and to pay taxes. That is the opposite of Religious exemption.

We are not having the same conversation it seems. We are already free to offer a religious program of our choosing.

Why are you seeking to be exempt? Exempt from what specifically? We can't advise you the best way to go without knowing your goal.
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2016, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I think you may be taking a general statement and direct question as an accusation. I told you why Religious Exemption (a tax and oversight free loophole) is disfavored and asked why you want to do it. You stated that you want oversight and to pay taxes. That is the opposite of Religious exemption.

We are not having the same conversation it seems. We are already free to offer a religious program of our choosing.

Why are you seeking to be exempt? Exempt from what specifically? We can't advise you the best way to go without knowing your goal.
Jumping through all of the exempt rules seems like much more of a hassle than just getting licensed. If you're following licensing rules, paying taxes and staying within ratio- I say just get licensed.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2016, 10:21 PM
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I'm just looking for information, trying to weigh my options.
Probably the main reason I would get exempt is to keep my current rates, or even be able t go lower.
Let's try this again...

Has anyone gotten a religious (or other) exemption?
Why or why not?
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2016, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm just looking for information, trying to weigh my options.
Probably the main reason I would get exempt is to keep my current rates, or even be able t go lower.
Let's try this again...

Has anyone gotten a religious (or other) exemption?
Why or why not?
Instead of going off the same angle (you asking same question) as before... since it appears no one has gotten an exemption and the responses weren't what you were looking for...

Maybe explain why you think an exemption is beneficial verses just going the licensing route?

If it has to do with rates, like you mention, I'm not understanding because as far as I am aware licensing does NOT dictate or control the rates YOU decide to set.

As a self-employed business owner you can choose to charge whatever you want.

What state are you in? Maybe someone from that state can offer more advice/information..
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2016, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm just looking for information, trying to weigh my options.
Probably the main reason I would get exempt is to keep my current rates, or even be able t go lower.
Let's try this again...

Has anyone gotten a religious (or other) exemption?
Why or why not?
In my state religious exemption only has certain benefits....i.e. the church next to me went the route of only providing an 8-11 AM preschool to avoid licensing/QRIS rules...there is something to do with the hours per day providing care? Otherwise, here if you open over that many hours a day regardless of religious exemption you would still be listed under licensing rules if you kept over 4 children not related. Hope this helps!
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  #20  
Old 06-25-2016, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
**why you think an exemption is beneficial verses just going the licensing route? **
That, that is what I"m trying to find out. I'm trying to figure out if an exemption IS beneficial at all.
Not just a religious exemption, but any.
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  #21  
Old 06-26-2016, 07:01 AM
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Assuming that you are talking about an exemption from licensing and not just an exemption from various aspects (such as a request for a higher ratio or an extra toddler), what other kinds of exemptions are there?
Have not heard of other exemptions. Not that I am interested. I believe most rules (I know there are some ridiculous ones so I am speaking in general) serve a good purpose and are necessary to keep child care from being a free-for-all.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:18 PM
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Wouldn't a Christian daycare have to part of a church in order to get an exemption. There are several churches here that have their own private schools but I don't know if the schools are tax exempt.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:00 PM
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Wouldn't a Christian daycare have to part of a church in order to get an exemption. There are several churches here that have their own private schools but I don't know if the schools are tax exempt.
I really know nothing about this but years ago I did work in a preschool and a church owned the building we were in. I also have a friend who used to own two centers before doing home care. She said the cheapest way to open a center is if you can do one in a church owned building. The rent is either lower or non existent. I guess it depends on the church. I do know from the IRS site that a church is 'required' to do some kind of charitable work in order to be eligible for tax exemption, in general, for the church. So some churches either don't charge or charge a lot less and allow a preschool to operate in their building and then I'm assuming they can count it as their 'charitable contribution' to the community. I do know that the one I worked for must have been really cheap cause our director was a really cheap person. Nice but cheap. She also did not run a religious program. It was secular but guess it was just really cheap rent.
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Old 06-28-2016, 03:17 PM
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Default religious exemption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm just looking for information, trying to weigh my options.
Probably the main reason I would get exempt is to keep my current rates, or even be able t go lower.
Let's try this again...

Has anyone gotten a religious (or other) exemption?
Why or why not?
It seems to me there are two issues here:
Licensing - whether you are licensed exempt or not, you still must report your income and pay Social Security/Medicare taxes and federal and state income taxes on your profit.
Religious exemption - I think you mean can you set up a tax exempt non profit organization (charity) and avoid paying income taxes on any profit. It is extremely difficult for a family child care home to get a federal tax exempt status. This is because homes serve so few children and would need to first incorporate as a not for profit organization, have a board of directors and follow other formalities that don't make sense in a home setting. If you did get the tax exempt status you would still pay all taxes on your salary. You wouldn't pay taxes on the program's profit.
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  #25  
Old 06-28-2016, 08:59 PM
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I have no problem paying taxes.

I would be ok with associating with my church, and I'm pretty sure they'd be ok with it, but then would I have to be in their building? I'd rather do it in my own if possible.

So what I'm getting is that there is really no point to the exception? I don't want to go over ratios, I don't want to avoid background checks, and I would like to pay the taxes required.

I would like to get to a point that I can offer tuitions and sliding scales for parents. The reason I brought up an exemption is because I have heard of licensed daycares that were told they had to charge "as least XX" I know I need to pay my bills and such, but I would still like to help out for parents in need. I don't know if becoming a non profit (If some how I would need to connect with the church for this) would help, but I don't care about the taxes part. Just trying to figure out the best way to take care of things.

I'm not coming in trying to get around things, and I can understand how a group of people who went through the licensing process wouldn't want someone to come in and skip it all. I HATE all the loops that need jumped through, but I'll continue to do them if need be. We are currently replacing ALL our grass with sand because of said hoops :P

Thank you to those who gave some info on the post!
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  #26  
Old 06-29-2016, 06:23 AM
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I think from what you are saying it would just be a hassle. But keep in mind the costs of doing business. The reason most of us don't offer things like discounts and sliding scales, is that it simply isn't affordable. The money for the costs of doing business has to come from somewhere, that somewhere is the parents, as we don't really get government funding as say schools do. And, most of the parents who really need help do get help from the government. I run into more parents that "can't afford" daycare that simply don't want to budget for it. They would rather have the new phone, the new car, the high plan of cable TV, trips to places, going out to eat every night, etc. But if you choose to offer that, there is no reason why you can't either way.
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  #27  
Old 06-29-2016, 09:06 AM
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I have never heard of a minimum rate for providing child care. Is there such a thing in California?

I beleve that Tom Copeland has also said that a provider does not necessarily have to charge the same rate for every family.

If so, and based on your comments, there would be no reason or rationale for being license exempt.
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