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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>How Many Stars Do You Have
Country Kids 08:49 AM 11-30-2012
Just curious of those with stars what they have been able to achieve.


I set up a poll but it won't come up?

Help!
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Crystal 08:55 AM 11-30-2012
Our system hasn't been implemented yet, but I would be at 4 stars now. I would have to submit assessment info on children electronically to get a 5 at this point.
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kitykids3 09:22 AM 11-30-2012
I was able to achieve 4 last year (first year), which is pretty much unheard of for a family provider in my area, so I am quite proud. :-) I'll be 1 point away from 5 this year because I didn't keep up with kids portfolios or do assessments or intentional lesson planning (written). Sometimes you gotta say it's just too much and keep your sanity.
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MarinaVanessa 09:51 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Our system hasn't been implemented yet, but I would be at 4 stars now. I would have to submit assessment info on children electronically to get a 5 at this point.
Do you know if and when ours will be implemented? I had heard something about this but just in passing during a childcare association board meeting. I tried googling info but I can't seem to find any info on the standards. How do I check to see where I would rate?
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Blackcat31 10:05 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Do you know if and when ours will be implemented? I had heard something about this but just in passing during a childcare association board meeting. I tried googling info but I can't seem to find any info on the standards. How do I check to see where I would rate?
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/occ/...nfo&stateID=52

I am pretty sure what you are looking for is in that link. If I remember right, I think I read somewhere around page 29 what the requirements are for CA.
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Crystal 10:19 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/occ/...nfo&stateID=52

I am pretty sure what you are looking for is in that link. If I remember right, I think I read somewhere around page 29 what the requirements are for CA.
Those are not the final determination for qualifications, and the regs will vary by county. The link provided is to the recommendations from a panel that finalized the report way back in 2010.

I am trying to figure out how to scan the documents that I recieved Tuesday evening, that have the current information on them. As soon as I get it figured out I will attach it here
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Crystal 10:22 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Do you know if and when ours will be implemented? I had heard something about this but just in passing during a childcare association board meeting. I tried googling info but I can't seem to find any info on the standards. How do I check to see where I would rate?
Right now it is being implemented in 17 counties, beginning this month. It is a pilot program through December 2015. After that it should go statewide and will, as of now, remain voluntary.
I am waiting for a response to find out which counties are currently participating.

You can check with your county office of education, R&R or local child care planning council to see if your county is participating and how you might get involved.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 10:57 AM 11-30-2012
I wonder when we'll have something in the south.
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Sugar Magnolia 11:14 AM 11-30-2012
First year 3 stars, then two years at 4 stars, then last year back to 3 again.
Guys, if you think its tough on home providers, try being a small, multi age center and getting the people.doing the assessments to fit the round peg in THAT square hole. Oy.
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Sugar Magnolia 11:16 AM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I wonder when we'll have something in the south.

In my county in Florida, we've had it for 4 years.
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nanglgrl 11:32 AM 11-30-2012
I'm 2 stars in Iowa and working on my third now but or QRS system is different. We are encouraged to start low because we will get more grant money. If I start at 2 stars I get $500 and then in 2 years if I stay at 2 I get $250 if I go up to 3 stars I get $700 and so on. So in the end you get more money if you move up a star every 2 years instead of going for 5 stars right away. Also to get more than 2 stars there are a lot of home assessments by the county health department, nurses, CCRR etc. to go through your files, environment and curriculum that take time to set up and it can take 2 years to get all of the home assessments completed and any corrections made to move to the next star. 2 or 5 stars is my area sadly doesn't matter to parents. Most of them don't even know what the program is about.
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Childminder 11:57 AM 11-30-2012
This is comparing apples and oranges. In my State I have fulfilled 100% of four categories but because I do not have a degree in ECE or a CDA I can get no higher than a one(1) of five(5) and never will. By what I read on this forum that would give me more stars in another state.
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snbauser 12:03 PM 11-30-2012
I was 4 stars for the first 2 years and then 5 stars before I closed down and moved to a center. Right now we are 1 star because we are under a temporary license for the first 6 months and then we can request to be reassessed.
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Blackcat31 12:07 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I'm 2 stars in Iowa and working on my third now but or QRS system is different. We are encouraged to start low because we will get more grant money. If I start at 2 stars I get $500 and then in 2 years if I stay at 2 I get $250 if I go up to 3 stars I get $700 and so on. So in the end you get more money if you move up a star every 2 years instead of going for 5 stars right away. Also to get more than 2 stars there are a lot of home assessments by the county health department, nurses, CCRR etc. to go through your files, environment and curriculum that take time to set up and it can take 2 years to get all of the home assessments completed and any corrections made to move to the next star. 2 or 5 stars is my area sadly doesn't matter to parents. Most of them don't even know what the program is about.
I posted this yesterday and I know it only mentions a couple states but I am betting the rest will follow suit. It won't take parents long to find the program and it will become meaningful to them once they all find out there are financial incentives for them if they choose a provider with a higher rating than the next.

Are there incentives for parents to choose higher rated providers?

Experience from other fields suggests that financial incentives can help change consumer behavior. Several States are experimenting with this approach and creating consumer-based incentives linked to QRIS. Several years ago Maine doubled the State dependent care tax credit for parents who used an early childhood program that was at Step 4 of the State’s Quality for ME initiative. Anecdotal evidence suggests that this financial incentive increased the number of parents who inquired about quality, which subsequently increased the number of providers participating in accreditation facilitation projects and career development in early and school-age care and education. In 2007, the Louisiana legislature passed a package of School Readiness Tax Credits (SRTC) linked to Quality Start, the Louisiana QRIS. The package, which took effect on January 1, 2008, includes a refundable State dependent care tax credit for families with children younger than age 6. The value of the credit increases based on the star rating of the center the child attends. Additional information about Louisiana’s tax credits is available in the “Provider Incentives and Support” section.
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nanglgrl 12:39 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I posted this yesterday and I know it only mentions a couple states but I am betting the rest will follow suit. It won't take parents long to find the program and it will become meaningful to them once they all find out there are financial incentives for them if they choose a provider with a higher rating than the next.

Are there incentives for parents to choose higher rated providers?

Experience from other fields suggests that financial incentives can help change consumer behavior. Several States are experimenting with this approach and creating consumer-based incentives linked to QRIS. Several years ago Maine doubled the State dependent care tax credit for parents who used an early childhood program that was at Step 4 of the State’s Quality for ME initiative. Anecdotal evidence suggests that this financial incentive increased the number of parents who inquired about quality, which subsequently increased the number of providers participating in accreditation facilitation projects and career development in early and school-age care and education. In 2007, the Louisiana legislature passed a package of School Readiness Tax Credits (SRTC) linked to Quality Start, the Louisiana QRIS. The package, which took effect on January 1, 2008, includes a refundable State dependent care tax credit for families with children younger than age 6. The value of the credit increases based on the star rating of the center the child attends. Additional information about Louisiana’s tax credits is available in the “Provider Incentives and Support” section.
That would be wonderful if the parents had financial incentives to choose high quality care! I agree it would make a difference.
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MarinaVanessa 03:10 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:

You can check with your county office of education, R&R or local child care planning council to see if your county is participating and how you might get involved.
I called thank you. Now just waiting on a response back, Thank you so much.
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Meeko 06:27 PM 11-30-2012
I will stay at zero as long as I possibly can.

This is MY business and I am not ready to turn it over to Big Brother's rules. I have done things my way for 28 years and it's worked just fine.

Almost three decades of happy kids and happy parents. Three decades of happy licensers and happy food program monitors.

Not about to change that until I'm forced to...which I know is coming....but I will hang on until then. The fact is much of what I do falls in the government window of "good care". My problem is being told I MUST do it in order to be considered a good daycare.

I believe with all my heart and soul that PARENTS should decide for themselves if they like a daycare or not and not be influenced by a government rating. I hate seeing individuality heading out the window and everybody having to follow the same path.
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Meeko 06:32 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
That would be wonderful if the parents had financial incentives to choose high quality care! I agree it would make a difference.

I fail to see how the government blackmailing/bribing parents to chose one daycare over another is a good thing.

"High quality" should be up to the parent to decide.

How about they do their own research and decide for themselves? Now there's a concept our government doesn't want! People who actually think for themselves!!!
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mom2many 07:21 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I will stay at zero as long as I possibly can.

This is MY business and I am not ready to turn it over to Big Brother's rules. I have done things my way for 28 years and it's worked just fine.

Almost three decades of happy kids and happy parents. Three decades of happy licensers and happy food program monitors.

Not about to change that until I'm forced to...which I know is coming....but I will hang on until then. The fact is much of what I do falls in the government window of "good care". My problem is being told I MUST do it in order to be considered a good daycare.

I believe with all my heart and soul that PARENTS should decide for themselves if they like a daycare or not and not be influenced by a government rating. I hate seeing individuality heading out the window and everybody having to follow the same path.
I'm in the same boat....I told my husband it may be time to sell our 2 homes and move out to the sticks and just live off his pension, when this whole thing comes to be. We shall see.... I'm rated at a 1 and if that is detrimental to my business, then I will be forced to close my doors. It makes me really sad thinking about it.

I just cannot see shelling out thousands of dollars to educate myself on what I have done successfully for over 2 decades. It's not that I think I know everything, but I have sat through "mandatory" food program classes and first aid courses year after year and been dismayed at what a joke they are. They have been a total waste of time! I have seen first hand that when the government gets involved, things can become so bureaucratic and common sense falls by the way side.

Ok...time for a glass of wine! I'm so over it all!!!!!
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BumbleBee 10:18 PM 11-30-2012
Originally Posted by Childminder:
This is comparing apples and oranges. In my State I have fulfilled 100% of four categories but because I do not have a degree in ECE or a CDA I can get no higher than a one(1) of five(5) and never will. By what I read on this forum that would give me more stars in another state.
Same here, I may possibly get up to 2 stars but it would take a h*ll of a lot of work for that one extra star.

The center I worked at was a 3 or 4 star and I can say without a doubt in my mind that my program and way of teaching has waaaaaaaaay more to offer than the center ever did.

Michigan...gotta love it.
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nanglgrl 01:17 AM 12-01-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I fail to see how the government blackmailing/bribing parents to chose one daycare over another is a good thing.

"High quality" should be up to the parent to decide.

How about they do their own research and decide for themselves? Now there's a concept our government doesn't want! People who actually think for themselves!!!
I'm not saying I don't disagree. I also think the government has too much involvement. My ratings have not changed the quality of care I provide, my environment or any other factor of my daycare but I do it because things are changing and to stay in business I feel like I need to stay ahead of the game.
As far as blackmailing/bribing parents it's a sad world we live in but it seems to me that at least 75% of parents in my area will choose cheaper care over quality care even if cheaper is $20 a month but a lot less quality. The fact of the matter is there are more bad parents out there, more children in childcare for the majority of their waking hours and more bad providers, because of that more children that grow up without what is needed in their formative years.
What do I think a child needs? Love, understanding and chances to explore. They don't need all of the stuff the government thinks..none of them benefit from the no smoking signs on my doors or a lot of the things the government makes me do but they do benefit from a few of the regulations. Would I do the things that benefit them even without regulations? Yes, but a lot of providers wouldn't and a lot of parents wouldn't care, that's the sad truth of the matter.
I had my first surprise inspection this year and I hated it. I feel like it is an unneeded invasion to my personal space. I groaned and moaned and I still will hate it every year when they come but when I really think about it I remind myself that somewhere even in my small town there is probably a provider abusing or neglecting the children in her care and no one knows. Sometimes this abuse/neglect leads to death of an innocent child. I will suck it up and deal with the government being more involved and coming into my home unannounced if it gives them more of a chance of finding those abusers.
I should also add that my view may be skewed because of the state I live in and how fair our QRS operates. There is no need for me to do much more than I already do to achieve a good rating. Getting 2 stars required me to change nothing. Ours is based on points that you can get a variety of ways. If I don't want to go get a Bachelors in education to get 5 stars that's fine...I can do something else to earn the points.
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MizzCheryl 03:13 PM 12-02-2012
I have 5 stars. Had 5 for the last 10 years. The program changed 5 or 6 years ago but I did well enough to keep 5 stars. It is alot of work!
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Crystal 07:35 PM 12-02-2012
Awesome!! Your state is way ahead of the curve, having a tiering system for so long! It is relatively new elsewhere! Good for you for meeting and exceeding standards!!!!
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mom2many 10:32 PM 12-02-2012
Originally Posted by Clueless:
I have 5 stars. Had 5 for the last 10 years. The program changed 5 or 6 years ago but I did well enough to keep 5 stars. It is alot of work!
Just curious, do you have a Masters degree??? I am really disheartened by this 5 star program, when I have put my heart & soul into this career for so many years and now see that as not being "good enough", because I lack a "formal" education now. I understand those individuals who have gone to school, being on board for this...but truly wonder how many experienced providers with 20 plus years... feeling like me & ready to give up, because we will now be looked upon as failures with a lowly rating of "ONE".
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Crystal 07:15 AM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by mom2many:
Just curious, do you have a Masters degree??? I am really disheartened by this 5 star program, when I have put my heart & sole into this career for so many years and now see that not being "good enough", because I lack a "formal" education now. I understand those individuals who have gone to school, being on board for this...but truly wonder how many experienced providers with 20 plus years... feeling like me & ready to give up, because we will now be looked upon as failures with a lowly rating of "ONE".
I think what we will likely see, because this is a pilot program....meant to work out the kinks of what is and is not achievable, is a compromise as to the education portion of the qualifications. There will be alot of feedback from providers involved in the pilot phase, and it will come out that it is not realistic for FCCP to meet those expectations due to a lack of day time hours to attend school and a lack of resources available to us.

Don't get disheartened yet......get involved and let your voice be heard!!!!
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Crystal 07:17 AM 12-03-2012
BTW....the highest level (5) requires a Bachelor's Degree for FCCP, and a Master's for Center Directors.
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mom2many 07:28 AM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I think what we will likely see, because this is a pilot program....meant to work out the kinks of what is and is not achievable, is a compromise as to the education portion of the qualifications. There will be alot of feedback from providers involved in the pilot phase, and it will come out that it is not realistic for FCCP to meet those expectations due to a lack of day time hours to attend school and a lack of resources available to us.

Don't get disheartened yet......get involved and let your voice be heard!!!!
I am going to email the woman who is charge of the Santa Clara County QRIS program and see if I can. I just found it in another thread- thanks for posting that!

I noticed that their last meeting was on 10/23 from 10-noon, so I hope they will be able to accommodate "working" providers and will have some meetings in the evenings too...we shall see! I figure it doesn't hurt to try.
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BumbleBee 07:33 AM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by mom2many:
Just curious, do you have a Masters degree??? I am really disheartened by this 5 star program, when I have put my heart & soul into this career for so many years and now see that as not being "good enough", because I lack a "formal" education now. I understand those individuals who have gone to school, being on board for this...but truly wonder how many experienced providers with 20 plus years... feeling like me & ready to give up, because we will now be looked upon as failures with a lowly rating of "ONE".
Unfortunately I see this "education requirement" as being a big downfall to the programs. Personally, and I'm sure others have seen this as well, I have seen early childhood caregivers/educators with degrees who have no business being around children in any capacity. Likewise I have seen non-formally educated early childhood caregivers/educators who I look up to, emulate, and hold on a proverbial pedestal because they truly have a gift & talent for working w/children.

I agree with one of the PP's that working out the kinks is sooooo important as well as making our voices be heard. Just as each child is different & we cannot use the same techniques across the board, I believe the ratings programs need to look at the individual programs/daycares/caregivers and adjust techniques as necesssary.

As a degreed child care provider I have voiced my concern of the educational component (among other things) at area meetings and will continue to do so. A degree is a piece of paper-it does not make anybody more or less of a caregiver than somebody without a degree.
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lovemykidstoo 10:31 AM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I will stay at zero as long as I possibly can.

This is MY business and I am not ready to turn it over to Big Brother's rules. I have done things my way for 28 years and it's worked just fine.

Almost three decades of happy kids and happy parents. Three decades of happy licensers and happy food program monitors.

Not about to change that until I'm forced to...which I know is coming....but I will hang on until then. The fact is much of what I do falls in the government window of "good care". My problem is being told I MUST do it in order to be considered a good daycare.

I believe with all my heart and soul that PARENTS should decide for themselves if they like a daycare or not and not be influenced by a government rating. I hate seeing individuality heading out the window and everybody having to follow the same path.
I agree. The last meeting I went to about it, even our state instructors were rolling their eyes about it. The one training session was about the children brushing their teeth. You get more points if they brush their teeth in the morning. Someone asked, well when are the parents going to be responsible for their own children in the morning? They can't make sure they brush their teeth
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jojosmommy 11:06 AM 12-03-2012
I have not gone through the process yet. As I understand I could have 4 stars but I rec'd my dual license teaching degree in EC and Family Ed in 2007 which is more than the 5 yr mark so I have to take more classes to get a good rating. And unless they pay off the 30 K I took out in loans in 07 to get those two teaching licenses I could care less about the star system.

I think the whole thing is BS. And I don't know of any parents who are going to give a rip enough to look into it anyway.
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jojosmommy 11:09 AM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I agree. The last meeting I went to about it, even our state instructors were rolling their eyes about it. The one training session was about the children brushing their teeth. You get more points if they brush their teeth in the morning. Someone asked, well when are the parents going to be responsible for their own children in the morning? They can't make sure they brush their teeth
This is it for me right here. You "get more points if".... I do not and will not do things intentionally just to get a higher rating. I am not going to re-work my program, philosophy, entire house, routine etc just to add in things like tooth brushing so it LOOKS GOOD to some no mind at the state. This is teaching to the test people. I do not brush my kids teeth because I only accept parents who are responsible enough to understand the importance of teeth brushing and that my job is not to replace them as parents but instead to use my stregths in more appropriate ways. Brush their teeth at head start, those parents need help with that life skill and besides head start in my state is automatically rated at the top when in reality I wouldnt drop off my dog there. And he actually needs his teeth brushed
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mom2many 11:24 AM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
I have not gone through the process yet. As I understand I could have 4 stars but I rec'd my dual license teaching degree in EC and Family Ed in 2007 which is more than the 5 yr mark so I have to take more classes to get a good rating. And unless they pay off the 30 K I took out in loans in 07 to get those two teaching licenses I could care less about the star system.

I think the whole thing is BS. And I don't know of any parents who are going to give a rip enough to look into it anyway.
I find it interesting how I have heard it said by many that, "Education is the one thing NO ONE can take away from you." However, in this situation you will have to go back and take more classes, because your degree was not earned recent enough. They are basically saying it was all for nothing, if it doesn't count anymore.
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Blackcat31 11:53 AM 12-03-2012
Recently, I have been bombarded with calls from the folks implementing the star rating system in my state.

I ahve to wonder why are they pushing so hard for may participation? What is in it for them if I participate?

The gal from my district is coming tomorrow to my house to personally give me and orientation to the system and answer any questions I have.....

Why the personal attention? Kinda makes me wonder, but I am willing to listen and ask questions so we will see.

(Anyone in MN that has any specific questions, let me know and I will ask tomorrow and let you know.)
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Country Kids 01:05 PM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Recently, I have been bombarded with calls from the folks implementing the star rating system in my state.

I ahve to wonder why are they pushing so hard for may participation? What is in it for them if I participate?

The gal from my district is coming tomorrow to my house to personally give me and orientation to the system and answer any questions I have.....

Why the personal attention? Kinda makes me wonder, but I am willing to listen and ask questions so we will see.

(Anyone in MN that has any specific questions, let me know and I will ask tomorrow and let you know.)
We are actually going to have "coaches" that will help us with this. Another person to come into my house and mess things up!
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Heidi 01:06 PM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Recently, I have been bombarded with calls from the folks implementing the star rating system in my state.

I ahve to wonder why are they pushing so hard for may participation? What is in it for them if I participate?

The gal from my district is coming tomorrow to my house to personally give me and orientation to the system and answer any questions I have.....

Why the personal attention? Kinda makes me wonder, but I am willing to listen and ask questions so we will see.

(Anyone in MN that has any specific questions, let me know and I will ask tomorrow and let you know.)
In Wisconsin, many of the R & R's and WECA are getting $ to help implement the program. So...there's your answer....
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Blackcat31 01:35 PM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by Heidi:
In Wisconsin, many of the R & R's and WECA are getting $ to help implement the program. So...there's your answer....
Ah ha, it's about the money Should have figured.
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sharlan 02:16 PM 12-03-2012
With CA being so broke and licensing stretched thin, I wonder where they're getting the funding to do this.
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Meeko 03:59 PM 12-03-2012
Teeth brushing??? We already have to make sure they have their shots and WE have to keep the records or WE get fined. What's next?

How about they take the stupid amount of money they are spending on this program and teach parents how to actually parent?
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Heidi 04:08 PM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
With CA being so broke and licensing stretched thin, I wonder where they're getting the funding to do this.
its federal money..."race to the top"
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kitykids3 06:38 PM 12-03-2012
In WI though, we also get the $500 grant to improve our programs when we work with a consultant. I am not going to pass that up - $500 each year. Last year that got me a nice daycare table, chairs and a $250 set of wooden unit blocks I have been wanting for years.

As far as the 'formal' education goes, why should those that have one, took the work and money to get one, be considered at the same rating as someone who hasn't? I'm not saying that is the only determining factor in a quality program, or even the most important, but there is something to have been gained from having a BS degree in education. There are child development classes, etc. etc., you don't get from the continuing education classes or entry level classes.

I got an email a couple weeks ago stating that they are offering free credit earning classes to 2 star centers. Kind of made me upset that I am paying off $50K for my degree that I got before opening (and took 6 years) and which has attributed to my 4 stars, yet others are going to get some of those classes for free just because they haven't done it on their own yet. Where is that right? So they can become equal rating with me in a few years with a handout. So that everyone is equal? Then why have a rating system? Why did I go to school?

I think most importantly, parents have the right to choose which care situation works best for them, but many of them don't know about the little things that add up to quality care, or get to see them.

Luckily my clients see the quality here and pass the word on so I can continue mostly word of mouth. They see it without even knowing about the rating. I wish all parents could determine the quality of center with no input from others, but it unfortunately doesn't work that way,

Brushing teeth, I do after lunch, but devil's advocate here - what if the parents don't feed breakfast at home, so the first food of the day is at your house? Wouldn't it be better for them to brush their teeth then, rather than before eating anything? I would think so. Plus it is not just getting the teeth clean, it is teaching them to take care of their bodies.

Plus, even though we wish and think it is the parents' responsibility to do such things, we all know, it doesn't always work like that, and then it is the kids who get shortchanged.

OK, you can all shoot me now.
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Crystal 08:10 PM 12-03-2012
Originally Posted by amberln30:
In WI though, we also get the $500 grant to improve our programs when we work with a consultant. I am not going to pass that up - $500 each year. Last year that got me a nice daycare table, chairs and a $250 set of wooden unit blocks I have been wanting for years.

As far as the 'formal' education goes, why should those that have one, took the work and money to get one, be considered at the same rating as someone who hasn't? I'm not saying that is the only determining factor in a quality program, or even the most important, but there is something to have been gained from having a BS degree in education. There are child development classes, etc. etc., you don't get from the continuing education classes or entry level classes.

I got an email a couple weeks ago stating that they are offering free credit earning classes to 2 star centers. Kind of made me upset that I am paying off $50K for my degree that I got before opening (and took 6 years) and which has attributed to my 4 stars, yet others are going to get some of those classes for free just because they haven't done it on their own yet. Where is that right? So they can become equal rating with me in a few years with a handout. So that everyone is equal? Then why have a rating system? Why did I go to school?

I think most importantly, parents have the right to choose which care situation works best for them, but many of them don't know about the little things that add up to quality care, or get to see them.

Luckily my clients see the quality here and pass the word on so I can continue mostly word of mouth. They see it without even knowing about the rating. I wish all parents could determine the quality of center with no input from others, but it unfortunately doesn't work that way,

Brushing teeth, I do after lunch, but devil's advocate here - what if the parents don't feed breakfast at home, so the first food of the day is at your house? Wouldn't it be better for them to brush their teeth then, rather than before eating anything? I would think so. Plus it is not just getting the teeth clean, it is teaching them to take care of their bodies.

Plus, even though we wish and think it is the parents' responsibility to do such things, we all know, it doesn't always work like that, and then it is the kids who get shortchanged.

OK, you can all shoot me now.

Thank you. Very well said. I agree with you.
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lovemykidstoo 04:43 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
Teeth brushing??? We already have to make sure they have their shots and WE have to keep the records or WE get fined. What's next?

How about they take the stupid amount of money they are spending on this program and teach parents how to actually parent?
Exactly. The class I took was called "Healthy teeth, Healthy smiles". There is no way I'm going to get 6 kids in my 1/2 bath every morning and have them brush their teeth just to add a notch to my belt. Not to mention that the bathroom that the kids use in my house is small, (toilet and sink), so then I have to use up my own personal space storing all of the toothbrushes, toothpaste, cups etc. Like you said, parents be parents, brush your kids teeth at home. Makes me so mad that we have to wipe parents butts sometimes.

BC, it's ALL about the money. You don't think these programs are really doing it for the sake of the kids do ya? Our gov't is broke as it is, why are we spending so much money on ridiculous things.

This is the direct listing on my state's rating page for teeth brushing.

"Early Childhood Educator has a plan that supports maintenance and improvement of children's health -- A regular oral care routine, including tooth brushing and/or gum wiping (for infants) at least once per day."
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lovemykidstoo 04:52 AM 12-04-2012
Also, I have an Associate's Degree in business, but I guess I don't get any "points" because it's not in early childhood.



"Early Childhood Educator has at least a CDA appropriate to age served.


Early Childhood Educator has at least an Associate's degree in Early Childhood Education or related field.


Early Childhood Educator has at least a Bachelor's degree in Early Childhood Education or related field."
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lovemykidstoo 04:57 AM 12-04-2012
Okay, this is the last one I"ll post, but the more I re-read my state's info, the more mad I get. I wonder do we all have the same requirements/questions for the rating system? This is another one. I wonder if they know I'm an in-home daycare licensed for 6 and not an elementary school. This is the question:

Early Childhood Educator has evidence of family engagement and involvement -- Early Childhood Educator engages in formal communication (i.e., parent/teacher conferences, home visits) to inform parents of children's developmental progress.

Seriously? In-home visits? parent/teacher conferences? HUH?
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Heidi 06:23 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by amberln30:
In WI though, we also get the $500 grant to improve our programs when we work with a consultant. I am not going to pass that up - $500 each year. Last year that got me a nice daycare table, chairs and a $250 set of wooden unit blocks I have been wanting for years.

As far as the 'formal' education goes, why should those that have one, took the work and money to get one, be considered at the same rating as someone who hasn't? I'm not saying that is the only determining factor in a quality program, or even the most important, but there is something to have been gained from having a BS degree in education. There are child development classes, etc. etc., you don't get from the continuing education classes or entry level classes.

I got an email a couple weeks ago stating that they are offering free credit earning classes to 2 star centers. Kind of made me upset that I am paying off $50K for my degree that I got before opening (and took 6 years) and which has attributed to my 4 stars, yet others are going to get some of those classes for free just because they haven't done it on their own yet. Where is that right? So they can become equal rating with me in a few years with a handout. So that everyone is equal? Then why have a rating system? Why did I go to school?

I think most importantly, parents have the right to choose which care situation works best for them, but many of them don't know about the little things that add up to quality care, or get to see them.

Luckily my clients see the quality here and pass the word on so I can continue mostly word of mouth. They see it without even knowing about the rating. I wish all parents could determine the quality of center with no input from others, but it unfortunately doesn't work that way,

Brushing teeth, I do after lunch, but devil's advocate here - what if the parents don't feed breakfast at home, so the first food of the day is at your house? Wouldn't it be better for them to brush their teeth then, rather than before eating anything? I would think so. Plus it is not just getting the teeth clean, it is teaching them to take care of their bodies.

Plus, even though we wish and think it is the parents' responsibility to do such things, we all know, it doesn't always work like that, and then it is the kids who get shortchanged.

OK, you can all shoot me now.
In my case, I 100% beleive you should get points for having a degree. In fact, I am working on mine now under TEACH. What I don't agree with is that one CANT get 5 stars without a degree. My personal belief is that the point system should be set up that it's only based on points, so if you earn 33 points, you are a 5 star, not if you earn 33 points but don't have a degree, you are a 3 star. KWIM?

I think the education component should absolutely count towards your points, just not so heavily that a non-degreed provider can't be a 4 or 5 star.

Right now, a provider can do EVERYTHING right...health and safety, environment, have a great curriculum, plan "intentionally", have great interactions, have a fantastic business plan and budget, have health insurance and solid contracts, etc, and still only be 3 stars because...no degree. She may have had 1000's of hours of continuing ed over the years (like I did), but since it's not "formal" training, it doesn't count.

I can honestly tell you that so far during my associates degree program, I have not learned a SINGLE thing that I did not already know, from all my continuing ed and my own experience, and I have not changed anything about my program based on my education. Still, I had enough points to be a 4 star program (26), but chose to hold off on the formal rating until they get the "kinks" out, so this next year, I will be either 4 or 5 star, depending on if I get my courses done this spring.
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Crystal 07:53 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
Unfortunately I see this "education requirement" as being a big downfall to the programs. Personally, and I'm sure others have seen this as well, I have seen early childhood caregivers/educators with degrees who have no business being around children in any capacity. Likewise I have seen non-formally educated early childhood caregivers/educators who I look up to, emulate, and hold on a proverbial pedestal because they truly have a gift & talent for working w/children. Absolutely. BUT, there are also providers who have DECADES of expereince that I wouldn't allow to watch my dog. Experience IS valuable, but it doesn't neccessarilay equate to quality care. There are also LOTS of ECE degreed women (and men) with NO experience that are FABULOUS with children, yet chose to get a formal education before entering the field. I see them all the time as a Mentor Teacher for the colleges with student teachers conducting their practicum in my program.

I agree with one of the PP's that working out the kinks is sooooo important as well as making our voices be heard. Just as each child is different & we cannot use the same techniques across the board, I believe the ratings programs need to look at the individual programs/daycares/caregivers and adjust techniques as necesssary. I agree. I certainly think it cannot be a one-size-fits-all, but I do feel that ALL providers should be required to partake in SOME sort of professional development activities. In California, right now, the ONLY requirement for professional training is pediatric CPR/First aid every two years and a health and safety training class before recieving your license. HOW can that equate to being knowledgeable in child development and DAP?

As a degreed child care provider I have voiced my concern of the educational component (among other things) at area meetings and will continue to do so. A degree is a piece of paper-it does not make anybody more or less of a caregiver than somebody without a degree.I disagree that a degree is simply a piece of paper. As a provider with 16 years of experience, who started school 6 years ago, I have grown TREMENDOUSLY and improved the quality of my program tenfold because of my education. Beofre I started school, I thought my experience was more valuable than a piece of paper as well. Boy, did I learn otherwise!
I responded in bold above.
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Crystal 07:56 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Recently, I have been bombarded with calls from the folks implementing the star rating system in my state.

I ahve to wonder why are they pushing so hard for may participation? What is in it for them if I participate?

The gal from my district is coming tomorrow to my house to personally give me and orientation to the system and answer any questions I have.....

Why the personal attention? Kinda makes me wonder, but I am willing to listen and ask questions so we will see.

(Anyone in MN that has any specific questions, let me know and I will ask tomorrow and let you know.)
They may want you to become a menotr or model program for it
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Crystal 08:01 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
We are actually going to have "coaches" that will help us with this. Another person to come into my house and mess things up!
CK.....I have to wonder why you are so against a program that will help you with all of the issues that you seem to have within your program. How is a coach going to mess things up for you? I am a "coach" (called a mentor here) and I don't mess things up for others when I visit them. I go in to work with provders as a team to make quality improvements that benefit the children AND the provider.

Every single day I see providers here with YEARS of experience who are complaining, asking for advice from other providers, etc. If a provider has complaints and needs advice on a frequent basis, then IMO they NEED help.

Frankly, a solid education that teaches providers about child development, business management and DAP can HIGHLY benefit those who have such issues.
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Crystal 08:05 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Exactly. The class I took was called "Healthy teeth, Healthy smiles". There is no way I'm going to get 6 kids in my 1/2 bath every morning and have them brush their teeth just to add a notch to my belt. Not to mention that the bathroom that the kids use in my house is small, (toilet and sink), so then I have to use up my own personal space storing all of the toothbrushes, toothpaste, cups etc. Like you said, parents be parents, brush your kids teeth at home. Makes me so mad that we have to wipe parents butts sometimes. How is teaching children self-help and lifeskills such a burden? Isn't that really part of our job? I understand space issues, but I have a half bth that 14 children brush their teeth in every day. I don't find it to be such a burden at all

BC, it's ALL about the money. You don't think these programs are really doing it for the sake of the kids do ya? Our gov't is broke as it is, why are we spending so much money on ridiculous things. How is it all about the money? You say that, but then you say that the governemnt is wasting money. If it was all about the money, then it wouldn't be happening at all. Of course it is ALL about the kids. The government is attempting to improve the quality of care and services children recieve to ensure their health and safety. How can that be so wrong?

This is the direct listing on my state's rating page for teeth brushing.

"Early Childhood Educator has a plan that supports maintenance and improvement of children's health -- A regular oral care routine, including tooth brushing and/or gum wiping (for infants) at least once per day."
i replied in bold above.
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Crystal 08:07 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Okay, this is the last one I"ll post, but the more I re-read my state's info, the more mad I get. I wonder do we all have the same requirements/questions for the rating system? This is another one. I wonder if they know I'm an in-home daycare licensed for 6 and not an elementary school. This is the question:

Early Childhood Educator has evidence of family engagement and involvement -- Early Childhood Educator engages in formal communication (i.e., parent/teacher conferences, home visits) to inform parents of children's developmental progress. Does that mean you HAVE to do home visits, or that is ONE of the options? Family engagement and involvement can mean lots of things, and IS very important, IMO.

Seriously? In-home visits? parent/teacher conferences? HUH?
replied in bold above again
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Country Kids 08:18 AM 12-04-2012
We have to also remember that there are many teachers in the public schools with degrees that aren't the best thing for our children. They are there for the paycheck/time off. Another thing is some teachers aren't even teaching their field of expertise so probably have little experience in the subject. Ex. Auto/woodshop teachers teaching history, Foreign language teachers teaching language arts, PE teachers teaching math.

I started this with a five year plan that has now gone into 17 years. 5 years ago we were phasing out the childcare so I could stay home with just our children and maybe work in the schools. 2 years ago, my hubby lost his job so I went back into it full time (60 hour weeks). Hubs found a job but I still had to work to keep us going. Will I be in this another 10-15 years? I don't really know the answer so do I want to put schooling into this, money we don't have, to not be doing it that much longer.

If I had know 17 years ago that I would be in it this long, I would have tried to take classes for this. Our local college just recently though started offering night time classes, so I think they saw this coming and thought if providers need classes we need to step up and offer them in the evening. I only learned about the night time classes 2 months ago.

What I find funny is, experience counts for nothing. How do they really think we have raised our own children. My husband and I took no classes, have no degree, and learned by trial and error like every father/mother before us. Oh, and we have both received several Dad/Mom awards from our biggest fans through the years. I'm not saying all parents are cut out for parenthood but its not just a new thing, there have been bad parents throughout history, I'm sure.

I really, really don't know if taking classes is going to open my eyes up to anything after this long in life. Its kinda like taking the food classes, they have you take classes on nutrition while looking at all your homemade food on the childrens plates. No brainer, you could be teaching the class!
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Country Kids 08:24 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
CK.....I have to wonder why you are so against a program that will help you with all of the issues that you seem to have within your program. How is a coach going to mess things up for you? I am a "coach" (called a mentor here) and I don't mess things up for others when I visit them. I go in to work with provders as a team to make quality improvements that benefit the children AND the provider.

Every single day I see providers here with YEARS of experience who are complaining, asking for advice from other providers, etc. If a provider has complaints and needs advice on a frequent basis, then IMO they NEED help.

Frankly, a solid education that teaches providers about child development, business management and DAP can HIGHLY benefit those who have such issues.
Have you been in a public schoolroom lately? That teacher has a degree hanging on the wall, experierence under the belt but I bet on a daily basis they are dealing with diciplinary issues, teaching issues, parent issues, staff issues, etc. The Dept. of Education doesn't have coaches going in to help them. I think that would help our children immensly.
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lovemykidstoo 08:35 AM 12-04-2012
Crystal, for some reason I can't quote your last response to me. Yes, I copied and pasted what it took to get 1 of the points on our system here. You have to do a home visit/conference to get that point. It is not an "option". There is a separate point for having daily communication with the parent IE at pickup talking with them about the day. This specifically says home visits/conference.

About the teeth brushing, like I said, I am an in-home daycare. I have alot of my home already delegated for daycare. Meaning that is ALL I do with certain rooms. Now I'm to make space in a very small bathroom for 7 toothbrushes, toothpaste, cups etc simply for the purpose of having the kids brush their teeth in the morning when I feel that some parents need to step up and take care of their own kids in the morning. I get tired of hearing about kids not being dressed, changed, fed in the morning. If you want to brush the kids teeth, that's great, I appreciate that. There is nothing wrong with that. My point is, how much gov't regulation do you want? If you make the point that this is set up to help and encourage and educate providers, there are many places to get that guidance without being mandated to do things.
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lovemykidstoo 08:41 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
CK.....I have to wonder why you are so against a program that will help you with all of the issues that you seem to have within your program. How is a coach going to mess things up for you? I am a "coach" (called a mentor here) and I don't mess things up for others when I visit them. I go in to work with provders as a team to make quality improvements that benefit the children AND the provider.

Every single day I see providers here with YEARS of experience who are complaining, asking for advice from other providers, etc. If a provider has complaints and needs advice on a frequent basis, then IMO they NEED help.

Frankly, a solid education that teaches providers about child development, business management and DAP can HIGHLY benefit those who have such issues.
I don't think it's a bad thing or even a sign that providers are struggling and need help if they post here things they're dealing with. Sometimes you have 5 minutes out of day that is frustrating and you need a sounding board. Doesn't necessarily mean that you need to call someone and make an appt to get help. I bet you would be a good mentor and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I wonder how much different this rating system is from state to state, because there are no mentors here. This is simply a system that you check the boxes for what you do and the computer gives you a rating. I have not heard of anyone being available to call or come over to help. I could be wrong however, I just haven't heard of it yet here.
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Childminder 10:40 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by :
Right now, a provider can do EVERYTHING right...health and safety, environment, have a great curriculum, plan "intentionally", have great interactions, have a fantastic business plan and budget, have health insurance and solid contracts, etc, and still only be 3 stars because...no degree. She may have had 1000's of hours of continuing ed over the years (like I did), but since it's not "formal" training, it doesn't count.
This is what I meant about apples and oranges - I can only be a 1 star in my state if I comply with all except education. I also have taken a multitude if classes and put countless hours under my belt but it does count as formal training.
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Country Kids 10:44 AM 12-04-2012
I personally think that all states should come into agreement on what they want. It should be the same nation wide. I'm thinking if you have parents moving from different states and the rating system is totally different, they aren't going to really understand it.
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nanglgrl 11:31 AM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I personally think that all states should come into agreement on what they want. It should be the same nation wide. I'm thinking if you have parents moving from different states and the rating system is totally different, they aren't going to really understand it.
Good point! I agree. They should also do the same for registration requirements. I doubt they would all come to an agreement though.
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Country Kids 11:42 AM 12-04-2012
Right now I have 11 families. None of them, I mean non have asked me if I have had any trainings for teaching children, what kind of trainings I have and none have even asked if I'm liscensed through the state or how many children I'm allowed.

Now four are teachers with one being at Head Start. So far the HS parent has let me know their child will never grace the door step of head start. The would rather pay me for the excellent program I do right here. The other teachers are on board also. One was going to send child to a private preschool/kindergarten program but said the child was doing so well here they didn't see any reason to change. I also have another teacher on my waiting list that said the same thing. Once child is here there is no reason to change-my program is just fine.

I have no "formal" education, stars, or anything like that. Right now I have experience, trial/error/ and allowing kids to be kids. Looks like its working pretty well for me.
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Meeko 12:01 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Right now I have 11 families. None of them, I mean non have asked me if I have had any trainings for teaching children, what kind of trainings I have and none have even asked if I'm liscensed through the state or how many children I'm allowed.

Now four are teachers with one being at Head Start. So far the HS parent has let me know their child will never grace the door step of head start. The would rather pay me for the excellent program I do right here. The other teachers are on board also. One was going to send child to a private preschool/kindergarten program but said the child was doing so well here they didn't see any reason to change. I also have another teacher on my waiting list that said the same thing. Once child is here there is no reason to change-my program is just fine.

I have no "formal" education, stars, or anything like that. Right now I have experience, trial/error/ and allowing kids to be kids. Looks like its working pretty well for me.
Amen..

But didn't you know that someone who doesn't know you, or your family, or your home, or your history, or your program, or your DCP's or your DC kids....knows much better than you about how you should run YOUR business?
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Meeko 12:34 PM 12-04-2012
Education is admirable. I applaud all those who desire to further themselves.

But education is NOT everything.

All 4 of my kids had a wonderful 4th grade teacher. My son is 28 now and still says thanks to her, his love of reading was born. He still e-mails her sometimes. Same with my now teenage daughters. This teacher is retired now, but loved by so many children in our city. She was/is warm, loving, attentive and generous with the kids. She got her bachelors degree when she was young. She never married or had kids of her own...but she has scores of kids she still remembers and keeps in contact with from years ago. When she retired, hundreds of people went to her open house at the school.

Worst teacher my kids ever had? Used to be a teacher at elementary school. Nasty, arrogant piece of work who was hated by every child. Then went on to be the principal of one of the junior high school. And then principal of a high school. (not my daughters high school thank goodness!)
Always furthering his education. He was PHD by the time he hit the high school. Still a nasty man. Still hated. Still no idea how to connect with kids regardless of his education. The man should never have been in the field he was.

If "stars" were added behind the local teachers names....he would of been a 5. The 4th grade teacher would have been so low down the totem pole, with her "measly" bachelors degree.

Yet only one was born to be a teacher.

One shouldn't have been allowed around kids. (He was actually finally run off from the high school ("retired" early) after there was an inquiry into where fundraising money was going........ (If any of you are from Utah, the name Timpview High should be familiar!!!!)

I believe a formal education isn't needed at all to be a good daycare provider. There is no degree out there than can teach a person to be loving and kind and patient if it isn't already in their nature.

To be daycare provider, you need MOM skills...and that can't be taught. It comes with a nurturing spirit and experience.
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Country Kids 12:42 PM 12-04-2012
Meeko, your post kinda goes along with my first two at the top of the page. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
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Crystal 01:35 PM 12-04-2012
I want to say that I do agree that an education does not automatically qualify someone to work with children.....certainly there needs to be some intrinsic motivation and desire to work with children because you CARE. I have witnessed many providers who have no formal training who are complete naturals when it comes to working with children, however I beleive an education in child development would ENHANCE those traits in any provider.

I am not certain as to other states, as I have not had time to do the research that I would like to do, but in California they will be conducting environmental rating scales (FCCERS) as a part of the tiering system. While the provider may not be known to the people in charge of the program, as Meeko states "But didn't you know that someone who doesn't know you, or your family, or your home, or your history, or your program, or your DCP's or your DC kids....knows much better than you about how you should run YOUR business?" BUT, they get a pretty good idea when they conduct those observations and assessments. ( I know, I conduct them, and in 3-4 hours I can get a pretty good idea of what a provider is like and how they run things). So this isn't just someone coming in and telling you how to run your business. It's about helping to improve the quality of care provided by ALL providers.

We all know that there are thousands of providers out there who have been working with children foe years who have horrible programs. We all know that there are newer providers who have great programs......think about YOU when you started.....no experience, no training, but you ran a pretty good program, right? So, are we to say to the newer providers who have gone to school, who KNOW that this is what they want to do and are passionate about it, that because they do not have EXPERIENCE they are not qualified for those stars? It works both ways.....we complain that we have years of experience that no one values, yet we expect those who have spent years and thousands of dollars on a formal education to not be valued either. Makes no sense to me.

Here is the bottom line.The quality of Early Care and Education, or child care, AS A WHOLE is never going to improve if there are not some drastic changes made in the system. I KNOW that you guys are great providers without a formal education, but I also KNOW that there are alot of providers out there with the same experience that CLAIM to be offering a great program, when in reality they are sitting children in front of the TV all day, or worse yet, locking them outside or simply telling them, over and over to go play toys, rather than interact with them. HOW is this going to EVER change if something isn't done about it? How many children have to be neglected, abused or even killed before the government says enough of damaging the children?

Why do we expect the governemnet to regulate eating establishments, even though we know the food is fantastic, or the doctor's office when we have a FABULOUS physician? We expect it because we KNOW that there is the POSSIBILTY that those people aren't REALLY who they claim to be. They could have a rat and roach infested kitchen or being reusing needles if there were no standards or reguulations involved. WHY should PARENTS expect anything less from the people who care for their children????


That being said, you all have a choice. You can get on board and make the neccessary changes, including formal schooling, in an effort to reach those stars, or you can choose not to and not get the stars. It is a choice that you will have to make based on what you want for your program. It is a choice you will have to make a sound decision about if you are going to remain succesful in the field.

Also, Sitting around complaining about it isn't going to change it. If you don't like it, get out there and let your voice be heard......even if you cannot attend meetings, you CAN write letters and make phone calls. Don't remain silent if you don't like it, because it isn't going to change if that is the stance you choose to take.

One last thing.....I believe that if you have a quality program already, and you tend to run at capacity, like MEEKO, this isn't really going to affect you, as you have word of mouth and references behind you that will keep bringing the parents to your door. I really don't think my involvement in it is going to change anything for me either, but I am doing it because I want to be a part of the process and a voice for other providers. We argued the education component and they made huge changes to that for FCCP prior to beginning the pilot program.

The reality is that it IS happening. It is up to you whether you achieve what the requirements for the higher stars.
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Crystal 01:41 PM 12-04-2012
I just want to add that, just because I do have the formal education, I am NOT, IN ANY WAY, implying that I am a better provider than anyone else. There are providers here without the education that I highly admire and respect in regards to their work with children and families. A couple in this thread even

I just believe that it Can't Hurt to get that degree if you are in this for the long haul
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Country Kids 02:58 PM 12-04-2012
Here's the thing with the education-I personally really know no one that has a degree in education and works in their homes. In fact the only people I know with anytype of education, it doesn't even apply to children. One is a degree in marketing, another business. Another one does have a teaching degree but is doing childcare because of not being able to find jobs.

The centers we have here, the people don't even have degrees. I have a friend who taught, lead teacher in a 4k group and had no degree-just experience being a mom. This is the private childcare/preschool/school we have here. Another friend of mine actually was also a teacher there-once again no degree. When she quit she gave me most of the stuff from her classroom!

Really all the people I know that have degrees, go into actual teaching in schools-not childcares. Also the ones who do get degrees probably don't stay in the preschool/childcare field long as their is no money in it.

I am going to do the pilot program to see what this is about. I'm actually meeting with a class tonight to see how far up I am with my education. Should be interesting!

Also, I am a voice and want it heard. What I don't like is when I am in a meeting for this and when expressing concern or asking questions, I am cut off quickly. I also see the look in their eyes of "Oh no, we have someone in here that actually knows something about this."

I think of it when the Womens Lib. movement started. That changed the world alot and not every women wanted it. It started right before I was born and I had no say in it. Some women did what they thought was best for women but not all women wanted it. Some were content and would be content to be a SAHM/SAHW, but were not given the chance because of women going into the workforce and changing how things were done. People think they are doing whats best for the children before really listening to the people involved in these childrens lives.
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MizzCheryl 04:08 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by mom2many:
Just curious, do you have a Masters degree??? I am really disheartened by this 5 star program, when I have put my heart & soul into this career for so many years and now see that as not being "good enough", because I lack a "formal" education now. I understand those individuals who have gone to school, being on board for this...but truly wonder how many experienced providers with 20 plus years... feeling like me & ready to give up, because we will now be looked upon as failures with a lowly rating of "ONE".
When they changed to a 2 component system 5 or 6 years ago I went back to school and finished my degree. Early childhood associates degree. Luckly I got a scholarship. I also have to do well on the rating scale every 3 years to keep my stars. It is very hard. I have many older friends that are not interested in returning to college. They can no longer accet subsidy children. Our state will only pay subsidy to providers with 3 or more stars. This new change our state has made is putting some of the lower star rated homes and centers in my area out of business. I am the only home daycare in my city with 5 stars.
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MizzCheryl 04:32 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I just believe that it Can't Hurt to get that degree if you are in this for the long haul
Sounds so simple, right?
I remember when I went back for the last time to finish my degree. I was a single parent at the time with 2 great kids age 6 and 8. I worked a good 50 to 60 hours a week running my daycare. Did all the shopping and cleaning that we have to do. Took care of my girls. Traveled back and forth to night classes and took internet classes. Did all the work and homework required. I was blessed in that I got a scholarship so I did not have to deal with the financial burden.
I had to also leave my kids with a sitter 2 nights a week.
IT STINKS!
I absolutly hated every single second of it.
I was tired, burnt out and NOT at all excited about my job or my daycare. I did manage to get thru it but thank GOD it's over.
Not really that simple when you have a full time job, a family and forget it cause I didn't have a life back then.
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Crystal 05:05 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Clueless:
Sounds so simple, right?
I remember when I went back for the last time to finish my degree. I was a single parent at the time with 2 great kids age 6 and 8. I worked a good 50 to 60 hours a week running my daycare. Did all the shopping and cleaning that we have to do. Took care of my girls. Traveled back and forth to night classes and took internet classes. Did all the work and homework required. I was blessed in that I got a scholarship so I did not have to deal with the financial burden.
I had to also leave my kids with a sitter 2 nights a week.
IT STINKS!
I absolutly hated every single second of it.
I was tired, burnt out and NOT at all excited about my job or my daycare. I did manage to get thru it but thank GOD it's over.
Not really that simple when you have a full time job, a family and forget it cause I didn't have a life back then.
No, it doesn't sound simple. I KNOW it's not simple. I have been in school for 6years, taking a full-time course load. I will graduate with a Master's Degree in May. I did this while raising three of my own children, working 60+ hours per week with 14 DCK, doing all of the shopping/cooking/cleaning/planning involved, as well as several other jobs in the community,(assessor/observor for our R&R, independent consultant for Head Start, Mentor Teacher for the CECMP and our local colleges) so yes, I realize how incredibly difficult it can be and is. I did it the fast way, some would even say the hard way, because I took a full 12-18 units each semester for the past 6 years. It doesn't have to be that greuling, but I wanted it, so I did it.

As hard as it was, I wouldn't go back and change it at all. I am proud of my accomplishments and it was worth every minute of hard work that I dedicated to it.

I would never suggest to others to go back to school and work for this if I hadn't lived it myself and KNOW that it IS achievable.
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Childminder 06:02 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by :
When they changed to a 2 component system 5 or 6 years ago I went back to school and finished my degree. Early childhood associates degree. Luckly I got a scholarship. I also have to do well on the rating scale every 3 years to keep my stars. It is very hard. I have many older friends that are not interested in returning to college. They can no longer accet subsidy children. Our state will only pay subsidy to providers with 3 or more stars. This new change our state has made is putting some of the lower star rated homes and centers in my area out of business. I am the only home daycare in my city with 5 stars.
And for all of the time and money you put into getting this degree are you or anyone else in day care, are you capable of charging any more money? I'm not talking about a preschool or as a teacher in kinder but as a chilcare provider?
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MizzCheryl 06:03 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
No, it doesn't sound simple. I KNOW it's not simple. I have been in school for 6years, taking a full-time course load. I will graduate with a Master's Degree in May. I did this while raising three of my own children, working 60+ hours per week with 14 DCK, doing all of the shopping/cooking/cleaning/planning involved, as well as several other jobs in the community,(assessor/observor for our R&R, independent consultant for Head Start, Mentor Teacher for the CECMP and our local colleges) so yes, I realize how incredibly difficult it can be and is. I did it the fast way, some would even say the hard way, because I took a full 12-18 units each semester for the past 6 years. It doesn't have to be that greuling, but I wanted it, so I did it.

As hard as it was, I wouldn't go back and change it at all. I am proud of my accomplishments and it was worth every minute of hard work that I dedicated to it.

I would never suggest to others to go back to school and work for this if I hadn't lived it myself and KNOW that it IS achievable.
Wow you are a wonder woman!
How in the world do you get in 12 to 18 credit hours per semester.
Do you do online and classroom hours? Thats truly to be admired. Thats 4 to 6 full time classes per semester, right? Here we could never get in more than one class per evening.

I would especially love to get to go to meetings during the day, as I am on several boards and just cannot get away to go to the meetings. You also get to be an assessor and observer, Independent counsultant and Mentor, AMAZING! Geez, it was hard for me to get out just for my co op classes. You must have a great sub that can help you during daycare hours. Need to gets me one of them!
Well congrats on your achieving your Masters in May! Thats so great.
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MizzCheryl 06:07 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Childminder:
And for all of the time and money you put into getting this degree are you or anyone else in day care, are you capable of charging any more money? I'm not talking about a preschool or as a teacher in kinder but as a chilcare provider?
NOPE!
Only thing I have to show is a license that has 5 little red stars on it hanging on the wall that none of my DCPs has even even looked at. My degree hangs beside it.

Our star system is a 1 thru 5 system.
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Meeko 08:11 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:

I just believe that it Can't Hurt to get that degree if you are in this for the long haul
My problem is that I have been in it for the long haul (28 years now) and the long haul is nearly over. I hope to retire in under 10 years. I have no desire to go back to school and take all that time away from my family at this late stage of the game.

Yet I will retire with a low number of stars....as if all my past hard work and experience is for nothing.

I am actually hoping....for the first time......that parents don't listen! At least to the so-called "experts". They need to do their OWN research and make their OWN decisions about daycare.

I stay full pretty much all the time. When I moved my daycare from one city to another this past August...ALL my families followed....something I was proud of. Several parents have to double back to go to work.

I only hope that my reputation carries me through the next 8-10 years. It scares me to think I may end my career on the bottom of the scale.
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mom2many 10:03 PM 12-04-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
My problem is that I have been in it for the long haul (28 years now) and the long haul is nearly over. I hope to retire in under 10 years. I have no desire to go back to school and take all that time away from my family at this late stage of the game.

Yet I will retire with a low number of stars....as if all my past hard work and experience is for nothing.

I am actually hoping....for the first time......that parents don't listen! At least to the so-called "experts". They need to do their OWN research and make their OWN decisions about daycare.

I only hope that my reputation carries me through the next 8-10 years. It scares me to think I may end my career on the bottom of the scale.
I could have written this myself...I'm just 2 years short of you though.
It's too late in the game for me. It may be doable for some and I was seriously impressed with what Crystal accomplished...I'm just in no position to tackle that kind of work load at this point in my life.
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Country Kids 10:45 PM 12-04-2012
Just totaled my total hours in trainings from childcare. They amounted to about 120 hours-not much it seems for as long as I've been doing this. So looking on the registry I'm right around a 7 (a little below). Yea, I thought but the happiness didn't last. As we looked into it, I'm not even at a three!!!!! I'm short classes in 3 catagories-yes 3 of them by alot. So the hundreds of dollars I have spent on classes, the gas, my time, my familys time, the miles on my car for this! After taking these, I will have more hours in trainings but only be at a 3- So the higher you are on the registry program the more stars you will qualify in the education part of the stars program.

It was suggested for me to take classes but I did this so I could be home for my family, not be away from them. 3 of them are at crucial ages and the other is just little still and the other will be early highschool. By the time I would even get to a 7 the older three will be gone out of the house. I was hoping not to be devoting my life to it at that stage of my life to only be in the field maybe maybe 5 years past that.

It was very, very disheartning for me. One I thought I would have wwwaaayyy more hours then that and two I thought I would be much higher on the scale. So I'm putting into the big guys hands and I know he will guide me to what I'm to do with this. It maybe time to close a great program, stay the same, or go forward. Only he knows!
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sharlan 10:53 PM 12-04-2012
I only plan on doing this for another 4 - 6 yrs. There is no way that a degree will do me any good at this point. I'll have retired before I got it.
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lovemykidstoo 04:35 AM 12-05-2012
Is it mandatory for any of you in different states? It's not mandatory right now for me I plan on marking the little boxes accordingly and getting the star they feel I deserve right now. I'm not going to back to school to get a degree. I have a degree, it's just not in what "they" say it should be. My business is just fine right now. My families are veyr happy. I'm full and have a couple on a waiting list. I have never received a famiily from an ad or even the gov't site. Mine has always been word of mouth. I doubt any of my families would even know what a star is. They do know that I take great care of their children. They dont' sit in front of the tv. We do learning activities daily, we go outside and be kids, they eat healthy meals, they are loved and read to etc. That sounds pretty darn nice to me. We are mandated already to take 10 hours of training a year. I probably take close to 40 hours a year because I enjoy taking new classes and picking up tidbits here and there. Hey government, buzz off, we're doing just fine.
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Country Kids 06:22 AM 12-05-2012
No, it will be totally mandatory but they are really, really pushing us for it. It won't go into affect for everyone till summer of 2014 but right now going to do a pilot program.

Once it starts they won't recommend childcares still but they will be letting parents know how many stars you have and what that means.
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Crystal 07:11 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Just totaled my total hours in trainings from childcare. They amounted to about 120 hours-not much it seems for as long as I've been doing this. So looking on the registry I'm right around a 7 (a little below). Yea, I thought but the happiness didn't last. As we looked into it, I'm not even at a three!!!!! I'm short classes in 3 catagories-yes 3 of them by alot. So the hundreds of dollars I have spent on classes, the gas, my time, my familys time, the miles on my car for this! After taking these, I will have more hours in trainings but only be at a 3- So the higher you are on the registry program the more stars you will qualify in the education part of the stars program.

It was suggested for me to take classes but I did this so I could be home for my family, not be away from them. 3 of them are at crucial ages and the other is just little still and the other will be early highschool. By the time I would even get to a 7 the older three will be gone out of the house. I was hoping not to be devoting my life to it at that stage of my life to only be in the field maybe maybe 5 years past that.

It was very, very disheartning for me. One I thought I would have wwwaaayyy more hours then that and two I thought I would be much higher on the scale. So I'm putting into the big guys hands and I know he will guide me to what I'm to do with this. It maybe time to close a great program, stay the same, or go forward. Only he knows!
CK....you are REALLY close! Don't give up! I remember you saying not too long ago that there were several trainings you wanted to take and that you really enjoyed trainings because it was something you did for YOU!!!! You can do it!
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Crystal 07:15 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
My problem is that I have been in it for the long haul (28 years now) and the long haul is nearly over. I hope to retire in under 10 years. I have no desire to go back to school and take all that time away from my family at this late stage of the game.

Yet I will retire with a low number of stars....as if all my past hard work and experience is for nothing.

I am actually hoping....for the first time......that parents don't listen! At least to the so-called "experts". They need to do their OWN research and make their OWN decisions about daycare.

I stay full pretty much all the time. When I moved my daycare from one city to another this past August...ALL my families followed....something I was proud of. Several parents have to double back to go to work.

I only hope that my reputation carries me through the next 8-10 years. It scares me to think I may end my career on the bottom of the scale.
Meeko, thank you for saying this. This helps me to look at it from a different perspective and it really makes me sad for you.

Where will you be on the scale without going to school? I hope it will be up a little higher than you are thinking! I wonder who you could talk to abut maybe getting some aspects changed...

You are a fabulous provider, I'd hate to see you retire at the bottom of the scale too, because you certainly do not belong there.
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Crystal 07:16 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I only plan on doing this for another 4 - 6 yrs. There is no way that a degree will do me any good at this point. I'll have retired before I got it.
This will not even go into effect statewide before January 2016......IF it goes statewide by then. It will still be a voluntary program as well, so Sharlan, you got nothing to worry about!
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sharlan 07:33 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
This will not even go into effect statewide before January 2016......IF it goes statewide by then. It will still be a voluntary program as well, so Sharlan, you got nothing to worry about!
That makes me feel better.

I have no objections to taking some Saturday classes, but to my knowledge, there really isn't anything available in my area. Our local R&R is less than impressive.
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Crystal 07:39 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Clueless:
Wow you are a wonder woman!
How in the world do you get in 12 to 18 credit hours per semester.
Do you do online and classroom hours? Thats truly to be admired. Thats 4 to 6 full time classes per semester, right? Here we could never get in more than one class per evening. 3-5 classes every semester. I took on-line and evening and weekend classes. Now, in my Masters program, I go to school on Saturday and Sunday, two weekends per month from 9 a.m. -5p.m.

I would especially love to get to go to meetings during the day, as I am on several boards and just cannot get away to go to the meetings. You also get to be an assessor and observer, Independent counsultant and Mentor, AMAZING! Geez, it was hard for me to get out just for my co op classes. You must have a great sub that can help you during daycare hours. Need to gets me one of them! Yes, I do have a great sub. And a great assistant (my husband) I realize not everyone has that option.
Well congrats on your achieving your Masters in May! Thats so great.Thanks, it is great! I found out a month ago that graduation is on my Birthday even!!! woohoo!!! Going to Disneyland, as I graduate in Pasadena, Ca.
You are SO sweet! BTW, I LOVE your condescending tone. Really, I do.
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Childminder 07:55 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by :
My problem is that I have been in it for the long haul (28 years now) and the long haul is nearly over. I hope to retire in under 10 years. I have no desire to go back to school and take all that time away from my family at this late stage of the game.

Yet I will retire with a low number of stars....as if all my past hard work and experience is for nothing.

I am actually hoping....for the first time......that parents don't listen! At least to the so-called "experts". They need to do their OWN research and make their OWN decisions about daycare.

I stay full pretty much all the time. When I moved my daycare from one city to another this past August...ALL my families followed....something I was proud of. Several parents have to double back to go to work.

I only hope that my reputation carries me through the next 8-10 years. It scares me to think I may end my career on the bottom of the scale..

This is me. Hoping to retire in 10 years except I have been caring for children for 47 years. I feel taking classes is important to revitalize your program on an ongoing basis but to go back for a degree would be a waste of time and money. By the time I got it I'd be to old to do daycare.
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Country Kids 08:05 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
CK....you are REALLY close! Don't give up! I remember you saying not too long ago that there were several trainings you wanted to take and that you really enjoyed trainings because it was something you did for YOU!!!! You can do it!
Oh, I wish I was close!!! I have 5 categories I have not taken any trainings in. Our CR&R has picked up quiet a bit in the past few years but before that there wasn't much offered. Mostly in the health area. They were actually suprised I had 2 hours in Diversity because thats how limited our classes were. You have to have at least 200 hours of training with a min. of 15 hours in each category to get to where I need to be to be a 3 on the stars program. There are 10 categories and I only have 2 categories over 10. Also, non of the classes I took many years ago for my degree will count as I took nothing in the categories we need-2 years and nothing counts.


So it will take me awhile which is disheartning to me.
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Meeko 08:12 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Meeko, thank you for saying this. This helps me to look at it from a different perspective and it really makes me sad for you.

Where will you be on the scale without going to school? I hope it will be up a little higher than you are thinking! I wonder who you could talk to abut maybe getting some aspects changed...

You are a fabulous provider, I'd hate to see you retire at the bottom of the scale too, because you certainly do not belong there.
Thank you for your kind words, Crystal.

My state is still working things out. As of right now...I have a high amount of good "Care About Childcare indicators" according to the local CCRR website. No azctual numbers attached to providers at this time. I will continue to make my voice (or written word!) felt at "HQ"
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Blackcat31 08:23 AM 12-05-2012
I have so much to say about this rating system, education for providers and changes in FCC as we know it, that I don't even know where to start. It IS overwhelming and it seems that everyone is either on one side or the other. We have heard some strong opinions both for and against.

I have my own personal thoughts and did start writing a really looooong post about my experience as a child care provider and how where I started out and where I am today as far as education goes but didn't post because it got kind of lengthy...

But I have to say that although there are some disadvantages for some with this rating system, there are also ALOT of advantages too. I feel I am informed about how it will work in my state and what things about our program I will like and some things I won't like but over all, I see these changes as positive. Obvioulsy there is no way to please everyone as we are all in this business for so many different reasons that it would be impossible for everyone to see this as a good thing.

However, I spent several hours one on one time with my area coordinator last night and have to say that some of the predisposed ideas I had about this system is not at all what I thought. For example, the 5 year limit on "credit" for education. Providers here were in an uproar over not being given full credit for their degrees if they were taken over 5 years ago.

What the real rule is, is that if you earned your degree more than 5 years ago, you are required to take a "re-fresher" course in certain areas. Observation and Assessment is one area. Which I think makes a lot of sense. I guess I wouldn't want to go to a hair stylist that hadn't taken any refresher courses in what's new and trending because I don't want to leave my salon with a mullet or a popular hair style from the 80ies now would I?

We are also given an opportunity to "make up" for any points we don't have in the education portion of the rating scale in other areas. So if your current education only gives you say 2 or 3 stars, you can earn other points in community relations that would still allow you to earn more points. My coordinator said it IS possible to reach the highest level of stars with only a CDA (which I personally thing ALL providers should have anyways) and high marks in other areas.

Bottom line for me, I am going to participate. I am going to take what I like about it and leave the rest. As Crystal pointed out many of the things that the government supposedly wants us to do are things we all already do and since child care as we know it IS changing, we need to either get in or get out.

There is not one profession I can think of that hasn't changed or re-structured to meet the needs of our ever changing and growing world. If you went into this field thinking it was always going to be the same way, then that is on you and is a bit unrealistic in all honesty.

We have morphed from a society that used to think it was ok to spank a child or to allow them to ride in cars without safety seats. We have grown from a nation that suffered from various illnesses and diseases only to become more educated and learn about vaccines and ways to cure or eliminate things that once killed people.

Change is happening and it is happening at all times all around us. Common vents on this board from seasoned providers are often about how much parenting has changed over the years. Whether we like it or not, it HAS changed so I guess why shouldn't this end of it change too?

Educating young children IS important and starting at an early age may or may not be beneficial as I have yet to see concrete studies that prove it unequivically but I also know it DOES NOT hurt, harm or slow down development or learning.

Do I like that the government is telling me what I can and can't do now as a small business owner? No, not really...but I also don't necessarily think anything they are telling me I have to do is all that bad either. I also think we are fooling ourselves if we don't think the government is not already telling us what we can and can't do. I think it really has more or less been that way for centuries.

I earned my degree and I am porud of it. I didn't do it to stay in this field or even to serve my DCK's better and although it does help me be competitive and it does benefit the kids I have enrolled, I did it for me. I did it so I know I am the best provider I am capable of being.

So for now, I am chosing to participate in Parent Aware. I am choosing to go through the process and see where I land and how many stars I get. I also know that the rating isn't forever and that I must be re-evaluated after so many years and once I reach the point of being re-evaluated, I will make a decision as to whether I will continue to participate or if I won't.

Heck, when I get to that point, I might be ready to retire. Who knows as things change all the time. But for the time being, I am going to participate because I know that taking control of my business and doing things willingly is alot better and whole lot more fun than being dragged there kicking and screaming the entire way.
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Country Kids 08:34 AM 12-05-2012
Yes, I'm also going to participate in it but I would really, really like to work in the pilot program. We have another program that goes with the pilot program and the want some of the providers that are working in the pilot program to also do the other program. Pilot program=45 providers, other program=15. Here's my biggest concern-they still don't know how this is going to work, how to choose the providers to participate and still no coaches have been hired. Both programs start in 3 weeks and they still have no idea how they are doing things. Thats what worries me, they want us on board but have nothing even in place, just packets to give us.

It would be so much better if they had everything in place before even telling us. 95% of the providers know nothing of either program, the ones that do know only do because of attending meetings that have talked about it. So right now it seems like the have the horse before the cart.
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MarinaVanessa 08:49 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Yes, I'm also going to participate in it but I would really, really like to work in the pilot program. We have another program that goes with the pilot program and the want some of the providers that are working in the pilot program to also do the other program. Pilot program=45 providers, other program=15. Here's my biggest concern-they still don't know how this is going to work, how to choose the providers to participate and still no coaches have been hired. Both programs start in 3 weeks and they still have no idea how they are doing things. Thats what worries me, they want us on board but have nothing even in place, just packets to give us.

It would be so much better if they had everything in place before even telling us. 95% of the providers know nothing of either program, the ones that do know only do because of attending meetings that have talked about it. So right now it seems like the have the horse before the cart.
Maybe they are still working out the kinks on their end too. They are probably fine tuning the way they will run the program which can take time and are figuring that they don't have to have anything set in stone yet until the program actually starts.

I called last week and I'm still waiting for a response. I havn't even gotten a call back so I'm going to have to call them again today. I don't even know if they've started the pilot program or not or if I can get in ... kinda hard if you don't even get a call back.
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MarinaVanessa 08:52 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Yes, I'm also going to participate in it but I would really, really like to work in the pilot program. We have another program that goes with the pilot program and the want some of the providers that are working in the pilot program to also do the other program. Pilot program=45 providers, other program=15. Here's my biggest concern-they still don't know how this is going to work, how to choose the providers to participate and still no coaches have been hired. Both programs start in 3 weeks and they still have no idea how they are doing things. Thats what worries me, they want us on board but have nothing even in place, just packets to give us.

It would be so much better if they had everything in place before even telling us. 95% of the providers know nothing of either program, the ones that do know only do because of attending meetings that have talked about it. So right now it seems like the have the horse before the cart.
Maybe they are still working out the kinks on their end too. They are probably fine tuning the way they will run the program which can take time and are figuring that they don't have to have anything set in stone yet until the program actually starts.

I called last week and I'm still waiting for a response. I havn't even gotten a call back so I'm going to have to call them again today. I don't even know if they've started the pilot program or not or if I can get in ... kinda hard if you don't even get a call back. I'm going to have to call back and talk myself up ... when I last called and left a voicemail I just said I was a FCC provider and wanted in on the pilot program, maybe if this time I say I'm the VP of our child care association and want to share information about their program and pilot to the members in our county I'll get a call back faster
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Countrygal 11:48 AM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Heidi:
In my case, I 100% beleive you should get points for having a degree. In fact, I am working on mine now under TEACH. What I don't agree with is that one CANT get 5 stars without a degree. My personal belief is that the point system should be set up that it's only based on points, so if you earn 33 points, you are a 5 star, not if you earn 33 points but don't have a degree, you are a 3 star. KWIM?

I think the education component should absolutely count towards your points, just not so heavily that a non-degreed provider can't be a 4 or 5 star.

Right now, a provider can do EVERYTHING right...health and safety, environment, have a great curriculum, plan "intentionally", have great interactions, have a fantastic business plan and budget, have health insurance and solid contracts, etc, and still only be 3 stars because...no degree. She may have had 1000's of hours of continuing ed over the years (like I did), but since it's not "formal" training, it doesn't count.

I can honestly tell you that so far during my associates degree program, I have not learned a SINGLE thing that I did not already know, from all my continuing ed and my own experience, and I have not changed anything about my program based on my education. Still, I had enough points to be a 4 star program (26), but chose to hold off on the formal rating until they get the "kinks" out, so this next year, I will be either 4 or 5 star, depending on if I get my courses done this spring.
Thumbs up to what she said !! (smilies still not working, sorry)
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jojosmommy 12:05 PM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I want to say that I do agree that an education does not automatically qualify someone to work with children.....certainly there needs to be some intrinsic motivation and desire to work with children because you CARE. I have witnessed many providers who have no formal training who are complete naturals when it comes to working with children, however I beleive an education in child development would ENHANCE those traits in any provider.

I am not certain as to other states, as I have not had time to do the research that I would like to do, but in California they will be conducting environmental rating scales (FCCERS) as a part of the tiering system. While the provider may not be known to the people in charge of the program, as Meeko states "But didn't you know that someone who doesn't know you, or your family, or your home, or your history, or your program, or your DCP's or your DC kids....knows much better than you about how you should run YOUR business?" BUT, they get a pretty good idea when they conduct those observations and assessments. ( I know, I conduct them, and in 3-4 hours I can get a pretty good idea of what a provider is like and how they run things). So this isn't just someone coming in and telling you how to run your business. It's about helping to improve the quality of care provided by ALL providers.

We all know that there are thousands of providers out there who have been working with children foe years who have horrible programs. We all know that there are newer providers who have great programs......think about YOU when you started.....no experience, no training, but you ran a pretty good program, right? So, are we to say to the newer providers who have gone to school, who KNOW that this is what they want to do and are passionate about it, that because they do not have EXPERIENCE they are not qualified for those stars? It works both ways.....we complain that we have years of experience that no one values, yet we expect those who have spent years and thousands of dollars on a formal education to not be valued either. Makes no sense to me.

Here is the bottom line.The quality of Early Care and Education, or child care, AS A WHOLE is never going to improve if there are not some drastic changes made in the system. I KNOW that you guys are great providers without a formal education, but I also KNOW that there are alot of providers out there with the same experience that CLAIM to be offering a great program, when in reality they are sitting children in front of the TV all day, or worse yet, locking them outside or simply telling them, over and over to go play toys, rather than interact with them. HOW is this going to EVER change if something isn't done about it? How many children have to be neglected, abused or even killed before the government says enough of damaging the children?

Why do we expect the governemnet to regulate eating establishments, even though we know the food is fantastic, or the doctor's office when we have a FABULOUS physician? We expect it because we KNOW that there is the POSSIBILTY that those people aren't REALLY who they claim to be. They could have a rat and roach infested kitchen or being reusing needles if there were no standards or reguulations involved. WHY should PARENTS expect anything less from the people who care for their children????


That being said, you all have a choice. You can get on board and make the neccessary changes, including formal schooling, in an effort to reach those stars, or you can choose not to and not get the stars. It is a choice that you will have to make based on what you want for your program. It is a choice you will have to make a sound decision about if you are going to remain succesful in the field.

Also, Sitting around complaining about it isn't going to change it. If you don't like it, get out there and let your voice be heard......even if you cannot attend meetings, you CAN write letters and make phone calls. Don't remain silent if you don't like it, because it isn't going to change if that is the stance you choose to take.

One last thing.....I believe that if you have a quality program already, and you tend to run at capacity, like MEEKO, this isn't really going to affect you, as you have word of mouth and references behind you that will keep bringing the parents to your door. I really don't think my involvement in it is going to change anything for me either, but I am doing it because I want to be a part of the process and a voice for other providers. We argued the education component and they made huge changes to that for FCCP prior to beginning the pilot program.

The reality is that it IS happening. It is up to you whether you achieve what the requirements for the higher stars.
I guess I am just not one to believe everything the Govt tells me. And I don't jump right to action as soon as a govt program is implemented. I do not believe that this program will affect me in any way in regard to who I choose to have in my program. I dont disagree that SOME people could use more support, education and overall guidance in this field but I have seen far too many govt program start with gusto only to be disbanded or changed within a few short years. What will happen with parent aware when the money for it runs out? This is race to the top money, so when our state no longer gets fed funds or gov Dayton is no longer in office and this program gets cut or scaled back who will be left to implement it? I am not going to change my whole existance daycare wise just b/c some govt no minds deem this important.

If a parent comes to me and actually asks about the parent aware system (which I doubt will ever happen) I will clearly tell them I am not a big govt person and they can determine if I am the right provider for them based on my contracts, policies, referrals from families etc. Exactly what I do now.

All I am saying is just because the govt tells you to do something doesnt mean its true, valuable, or important. Dont get your undies in a bunch about this thing people, until there is actual proof that this star system is going to affect you, your clients, or your business.
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Crystal 02:45 PM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
I guess I am just not one to believe everything the Govt tells me. And I don't jump right to action as soon as a govt program is implemented. I do not believe that this program will affect me in any way in regard to who I choose to have in my program. I dont disagree that SOME people could use more support, education and overall guidance in this field but I have seen far too many govt program start with gusto only to be disbanded or changed within a few short years. What will happen with parent aware when the money for it runs out? This is race to the top money, so when our state no longer gets fed funds or gov Dayton is no longer in office and this program gets cut or scaled back who will be left to implement it? I am not going to change my whole existance daycare wise just b/c some govt no minds deem this important.

If a parent comes to me and actually asks about the parent aware system (which I doubt will ever happen) I will clearly tell them I am not a big govt person and they can determine if I am the right provider for them based on my contracts, policies, referrals from families etc. Exactly what I do now.

All I am saying is just because the govt tells you to do something doesnt mean its true, valuable, or important. Dont get your undies in a bunch about this thing people, until there is actual proof that this star system is going to affect you, your clients, or your business.
I hear ya! It is quite possible that after the pilot programs, there will be no funding to continue or they may find that it simply isn't feasible and end it.

I am in California and this is totally a pilot program, to see if it works, to get the kinks worked out and to find out if it is doable. At the end of three years they will decide whether to keep it going.

I am involved in the pilot because I want the opportunity to make sure that OUR voices as Family Child Care Providers are heard. I am very interested in EVERY providers thoughts on this (even if I don't agree) because they are ALL valid concerns for each individual. Things like what Meeko expressed, even though we are in different states, are certainly concerns that many others have....when I go to the next meeting, her concerns WILL be heard, because I am going to report it. Same with everyone else's concerns. EVERYONE'S concerns NEED to be heard, because in the end of the pilot, THOSE concerns are what will be deciding factors in changes and implementation of the final program.
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daycare 03:24 PM 12-05-2012
Originally Posted by jojosmommy:
I guess I am just not one to believe everything the Govt tells me. And I don't jump right to action as soon as a govt program is implemented. I do not believe that this program will affect me in any way in regard to who I choose to have in my program. I dont disagree that SOME people could use more support, education and overall guidance in this field but I have seen far too many govt program start with gusto only to be disbanded or changed within a few short years. What will happen with parent aware when the money for it runs out? This is race to the top money, so when our state no longer gets fed funds or gov Dayton is no longer in office and this program gets cut or scaled back who will be left to implement it? I am not going to change my whole existance daycare wise just b/c some govt no minds deem this important.

If a parent comes to me and actually asks about the parent aware system (which I doubt will ever happen) I will clearly tell them I am not a big govt person and they can determine if I am the right provider for them based on my contracts, policies, referrals from families etc. Exactly what I do now.

All I am saying is just because the govt tells you to do something doesnt mean its true, valuable, or important. Dont get your undies in a bunch about this thing people, until there is actual proof that this star system is going to affect you, your clients, or your business.
I have to say that this is so very true and a great point.

My professor the other day told me about a project that she worked on during the 80s where she collected every bit of information regarding all of the local daycares in her city. She made sure to include the type of learning, their philosophies, rates, locations and so on. In the end the only thing that the parents cared about was how much the care cost and where it was located...

I am hoping that this is not a load of money gone to waste.................
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Country Kids 03:34 PM 12-05-2012
At our meeting it was told to us "this was not going away". I'm not sure if they meant the pilot program or the whole program. Next time I might ask them to clarify.

Now Chrystal, how do you get to express your concerns. Everytime a friend and I brought something up it was like they didn't want to talk about it. Either changed to something else or very short answers. They almost really act like they don't want anyone talking about it that might know something about it. Almost like they get nervous-
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Alice Of Legend 08:31 PM 12-05-2012
I feel like I'm in the dark here, but getting nervous! lol! I have friends in RL that are providers (referred to this forum by one!) have made mention of this but I've never really put much thought into it. From the sounds of it I need to though! Our state doesn't require this yet but I can't seem to find a set of criteria for this. I used the link posted at the beginning of this thread to find info but the link to my state doesn't work.

What site are you using as a resource?
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Crystal 07:16 AM 12-06-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
At our meeting it was told to us "this was not going away". I'm not sure if they meant the pilot program or the whole program. Next time I might ask them to clarify.

Now Chrystal, how do you get to express your concerns. Everytime a friend and I brought something up it was like they didn't want to talk about it. Either changed to something else or very short answers. They almost really act like they don't want anyone talking about it that might know something about it. Almost like they get nervous-
Hahaha! Come on now, you know me.....I don't allow peple to blow me off! LOL!

Kiddin'

I don't know....the leaders of this are people I have known and worked with for years, so I guess they value and respect my input. BUT, you do have to be assertive if you want to be heard.
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Blackcat31 08:08 AM 12-06-2012
Originally Posted by Alice Of Legend:
I feel like I'm in the dark here, but getting nervous! lol! I have friends in RL that are providers (referred to this forum by one!) have made mention of this but I've never really put much thought into it. From the sounds of it I need to though! Our state doesn't require this yet but I can't seem to find a set of criteria for this. I used the link posted at the beginning of this thread to find info but the link to my state doesn't work.

What site are you using as a resource?
Here is a link to your state http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal...accno=ED510419

If you scroll to the bottom of the page, it will give you the following pdf file to open. I included the pdf file below for you. Hope that helps.


https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/defaul...on_profile.pdf
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