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  #1  
Old 07-20-2016, 10:24 AM
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Angry Cancel That!

I have a dcb 4 yo who is a big problem on a daily basis. I decided to finally term him last week when he decided to act a fool at the park and decided he wasn't going to come back with the group and yelled at me at the top of his lungs in front of other parents at the park. I was being nice and gave his mom 2 weeks (I have a nice waiting list so I am not worried about replacing him). He has been even worse since I termed him. I know mom does not have my back and likes to play the victim since she had a divorce and doesn't know what to do (I have literally told her that she has to figure it out and have given her a book and advice). I really want to tell her cancel that and term him immediately because I truly cannot take anymore disrespect from this child. He yells at me, he slammed the door in my face, he throws toys or knocks down chairs when he is mad and tells me no all the time. I have sent him home for early pickup many times and I no longer want to watch him. His mom paid for the week on Monday but I want to term him and be done today not in 1 1/2 weeks. I have 2 questions 1 Is is unprofessional to term him now instead of waiting until the end of July and 2. Do I owe her a refund since I would be terming today? (My contract says no refunds for any reason). I am willing to refund her just to get this child away from me but I feel it is her fault I am forced to do this. Thoughts
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:31 AM
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You know what, just for the sake of your own sanity, make an exception this once and term today and refund her whatever funds that apply. I realized a long time ago, it's not worth my mental health to subject myself to a situation that is affecting my mood and the child care as a whole. NOT ALL MONEY IS GOOD MONEY!
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:35 AM
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Wow. I would do an immediate term and I would give back the one week fee so I could truly be DONE with this family.

Cancel your subscription because you don't need her issues, and all that.
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:53 AM
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Wow. I would do an immediate term and I would give back the one week fee so I could truly be DONE with this family.

Cancel your subscription because you don't need her issues, and all that.
I would do this as well, especially since you know you have replacements.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TXhomedaycare View Post
I have a dcb 4 yo who is a big problem on a daily basis. I decided to finally term him last week when he decided to act a fool at the park and decided he wasn't going to come back with the group and yelled at me at the top of his lungs in front of other parents at the park. I was being nice and gave his mom 2 weeks (I have a nice waiting list so I am not worried about replacing him). He has been even worse since I termed him. I know mom does not have my back and likes to play the victim since she had a divorce and doesn't know what to do (I have literally told her that she has to figure it out and have given her a book and advice). I really want to tell her cancel that and term him immediately because I truly cannot take anymore disrespect from this child. He yells at me, he slammed the door in my face, he throws toys or knocks down chairs when he is mad and tells me no all the time. I have sent him home for early pickup many times and I no longer want to watch him. His mom paid for the week on Monday but I want to term him and be done today not in 1 1/2 weeks. I have 2 questions 1 Is is unprofessional to term him now instead of waiting until the end of July and 2. Do I owe her a refund since I would be terming today? (My contract says no refunds for any reason). I am willing to refund her just to get this child away from me but I feel it is her fault I am forced to do this. Thoughts
It would be unprofessional to NOT term him immediately.

He is a risk to the other kids' safety and well being.

I wouldn't mention the refund unless she does.
If she does, I guess either stick to your contract and refuse to refund or refund and be done.

Sometimes it's not about the money or the principle. Sometimes they just need to GO.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:41 AM
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I don't think it's unprofessional to term. I think you've done your best to honor your termination policy but he's become too tough to deal with. If it were me, I would give her a partial refund based on the two days of the week left that she won't be able to use and just be done with the situation.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by thrivingchildcarecom View Post
You know what, just for the sake of your own sanity, make an exception this once and term today and refund her whatever funds that apply. I realized a long time ago, it's not worth my mental health to subject myself to a situation that is affecting my mood and the child care as a whole. NOT ALL MONEY IS GOOD MONEY!
YES!!!! So sorry to read that. Soon it will be over.
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  #8  
Old 07-20-2016, 12:17 PM
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I love how everyone has your back in here! But I would at least give 2days notice, because how will she go to work tomorrow? She would find a place or someone over the weekend for next week.

We had a terrible kid and I understand your pain and frustration, but would it be possible for you to use that money and have someone help you for few hours until he goes? Or you can explain to the mom the difficult you faced at the park and ask her to pick him up early until Friday (or drop him off early depending on the time you go to the park).

I know it would be a tough 2 days, but the response from the mom and other parents will maybe be tougher (imagine if she tells other and they think you are unreliable? and if you explain that the child is too difficult as the reason behind the term they might question why you kept him so long but couldn't handle two more days).
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:23 PM
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I love how everyone has your back in here! But I would at least give 2days notice, because how will she go to work tomorrow? She would find a place or someone over the weekend for next week.

We had a terrible kid and I understand your pain and frustration, but would it be possible for you to use that money and have someone help you for few hours until he goes? Or you can explain to the mom the difficult you faced at the park and ask her to pick him up early until Friday (or drop him off early depending on the time you go to the park).

I know it would be a tough 2 days, but the response from the mom and other parents will maybe be tougher (imagine if she tells other and they think you are unreliable? and if you explain that the child is too difficult as the reason behind the term they might question why you kept him so long but couldn't handle two more days).
I wouldn't want my child going to a daycare where another child was acting out in such a physical way. The safety of the group always trumps the convenience of an individual. Maybe an immediate term would be the wake up call this mom needs to work on his behavior?

And for the record I am not a term happy lady. But this child is sounding like a huge disruption to the program, which isn't fair to the other kiddos.
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:39 PM
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I love how everyone has your back in here! But I would at least give 2days notice, because how will she go to work tomorrow? She would find a place or someone over the weekend for next week.

We had a terrible kid and I understand your pain and frustration, but would it be possible for you to use that money and have someone help you for few hours until he goes? Or you can explain to the mom the difficult you faced at the park and ask her to pick him up early until Friday (or drop him off early depending on the time you go to the park).

I know it would be a tough 2 days, but the response from the mom and other parents will maybe be tougher (imagine if she tells other and they think you are unreliable? and if you explain that the child is too difficult as the reason behind the term they might question why you kept him so long but couldn't handle two more days).
She has talked to mom about behavior, it hasn't changed. This isn't a daycare problem, it is a parenting problem. The provider (and even more so the other children) should not have to live with the chaos. Sometimes parents need a little push to address issues, and hopefully this is the push she needs. Her not addressing this is NOT fair to her own child.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2016, 12:51 PM
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I love how everyone has your back in here! But I would at least give 2days notice, because how will she go to work tomorrow? She would find a place or someone over the weekend for next week.

We had a terrible kid and I understand your pain and frustration, but would it be possible for you to use that money and have someone help you for few hours until he goes? Or you can explain to the mom the difficult you faced at the park and ask her to pick him up early until Friday (or drop him off early depending on the time you go to the park).

I know it would be a tough 2 days, but the response from the mom and other parents will maybe be tougher (imagine if she tells other and they think you are unreliable? and if you explain that the child is too difficult as the reason behind the term they might question why you kept him so long but couldn't handle two more days).

Good!! I hope parents with badly behaving children tell others they were termed from care. Helps me keep a good group of kids.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2016, 01:21 PM
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I understand all your comments but I believe that by giving her a two weeks notice, the provider gave her "word" in a sense that the mom can count on her.

I am sorry but it was no surprise to the provider that he was a difficult chid, and after the park incident she should have term with a shorter notice right away not with a 2weeks notice.

To me is not the mom's fault to count on her provider at this point when she was offered to. Is not like she showed up even when she was giving an immediately term notice and we do not know if the provider gave her a written notice that his behavior will result in a term if there is no improvements in the last few months.

Do you think it would be best for her son if she ends up losing her job because she doesn't show up tomorrow and friday? Yes it is bad parenting but you can't blame her for counting on someone who offered to.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2016, 01:26 PM
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What does your contract/policies state with regard to termination notice and refunds?

Mine says I can terminate effective immediately for any reason.

IMO a child who is throwing things and knocking down chairs is a potential danger to the other children so I'd terminate immediately. My policies say that I don't have to refund, but I would because it was my decision to terminate immediately.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2016, 01:27 PM
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I gave a 2 week notice for behavioral problems once and immediately regretted it. Not only did I have to deal with the child's behavior I also had to deal with the parents attitudes. I approached the parents about the attitude change and we were able to come to an understanding about being respectful to one another or our agreement was going to come to an immediate end. I probably won't be giving out another 2 week term for behavioral issues . If I were you I would term and refund the remaining balance. Especially if your worried about her bad mouthing you around town
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:33 PM
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I understand all your comments but I believe that by giving her a two weeks notice, the provider gave her "word" in a sense that the mom can count on her.

I am sorry but it was no surprise to the provider that he was a difficult chid, and after the park incident she should have term with a shorter notice right away not with a 2weeks notice.

To me is not the mom's fault to count on her provider at this point when she was offered to. Is not like she showed up even when she was giving an immediately term notice and we do not know if the provider gave her a written notice that his behavior will result in a term if there is no improvements in the last few months.

Do you think it would be best for her son if she ends up losing her job because she doesn't show up tomorrow and friday? Yes it is bad parenting but you can't blame her for counting on someone who offered to.
It is NOT my concern whether the parent loses their job or not. It's my concern to protect the other kids from having to endure/witness bad behavior from a 4 yr old that should know better.

Also the provider told the mom she'd had enough and still during the term period you'd think she (DCM) would have had enough thought to tell her child to behave or else....

It's not the other kids' fault this kid behaves badly
It's not the providers fault the child's behavior has gotten worse not better as it should have
It's not the other parent's fault that this parent has a badly behaving child and as a client that wasn't termed, I'd be livid if I found out the provider continued to allow the child to remain in care and exhibit the bad behavior so that my child could pick up on it.

I'm sorry but if it's anyone's fault that this child is so badly behaved, I am going to venture to say it's because of how he is parented so again, it's NOT the provider's responsibility or concern if the parent loses their job.

I'm sure there is a family friend or neighbor that can watch "Mr Sunshine" while mom searches for other care.
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:51 PM
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I understand all your comments but I believe that by giving her a two weeks notice, the provider gave her "word" in a sense that the mom can count on her.

I am sorry but it was no surprise to the provider that he was a difficult chid, and after the park incident she should have term with a shorter notice right away not with a 2weeks notice.

To me is not the mom's fault to count on her provider at this point when she was offered to. Is not like she showed up even when she was giving an immediately term notice and we do not know if the provider gave her a written notice that his behavior will result in a term if there is no improvements in the last few months.

Do you think it would be best for her son if she ends up losing her job because she doesn't show up tomorrow and friday? Yes it is bad parenting but you can't blame her for counting on someone who offered to.
I agree that the park incident was an immediate term. But I disagree that the provider should continue to deal with behavior that sounds as if it's getting increasingly worse because she was kind enough to give mom a two week notice.
I agree with Blackcat, it's not the providers issue if the parent loses their job - they should have been using the time to line up new care anyway.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:01 PM
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BlackCat I understand your point of view but again if is not a surprise that the child has behavior issues then he should have been termed after the unsafe incident happened at the park.

And yes he is a bad example but as a provider I believe the children can look up to us and see how use this situation wisely by talking about unacceptable behavior during cercle time and use these last two days as a teachable moment to the other children. They will all witness bad behavior at one point, why not use this as a lesson and talk about how his behavior makes everyone feel including the teacher.

The provider put herself in that situation by offering two weeks of care, I find it harsh to risk her losing her job or something. Everyone makes mistakes even parents, and everyone goes thru a tough time at one point. The child is apparently going thru a tough time with the divorce and might have witness some fights, thinking about that little guy it unfair to him to go thru more stress tomorrow and Friday.

If he didn't hurt his classmates and if the provider can have someone help her for two days, I would find that a nicer alternative.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:14 PM
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BlackCat I understand your point of view but again if is not a surprise that the child has behavior issues then he should have been termed after the unsafe incident happened at the park.

And yes he is a bad example but as a provider I believe the children can look up to us and see how use this situation wisely by talking about unacceptable behavior during cercle time and use these last two days as a teachable moment to the other children. They will all witness bad behavior at one point, why not use this as a lesson and talk about how his behavior makes everyone feel including the teacher.

The provider put herself in that situation by offering two weeks of care, I find it harsh to risk her losing her job or something. Everyone makes mistakes even parents, and everyone goes thru a tough time at one point. The child is apparently going thru a tough time with the divorce and might have witness some fights, thinking about that little guy it unfair to him to go thru more stress tomorrow and Friday.

If he didn't hurt his classmates and if the provider can have someone help her for two days, I would find that a nicer alternative.
From what I gathered, the provider is looking at SEVEN more days of care. Also, it looks like behaviors have escalated (more than what the provider had seen before). As a client of daycare, I'd be relieved to see the child gone, and if the child is truly putting the other kids in jeopardy, the ONLY good decision is to terminate immediately (I had ONE case where I called for early pickup and terminated when a child lost control and was hitting/throwing/biting/breaking things. There's no way I'd put the rest of the kids through that just to serve out a notice period.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:17 PM
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BlackCat I understand your point of view but again if is not a surprise that the child has behavior issues then he should have been termed after the unsafe incident happened at the park.

And yes he is a bad example but as a provider I believe the children can look up to us and see how use this situation wisely by talking about unacceptable behavior during cercle time and use these last two days as a teachable moment to the other children. They will all witness bad behavior at one point, why not use this as a lesson and talk about how his behavior makes everyone feel including the teacher.

The provider put herself in that situation by offering two weeks of care, I find it harsh to risk her losing her job or something. Everyone makes mistakes even parents, and everyone goes thru a tough time at one point. The child is apparently going thru a tough time with the divorce and might have witness some fights, thinking about that little guy it unfair to him to go thru more stress tomorrow and Friday.

If he didn't hurt his classmates and if the provider can have someone help her for two days, I would find that a nicer alternative.
I'm not disagreeing that you have some valid points but my guess is you haven't been doing this very long yet...

Apologies if I am off base but most seasoned or veteran providers no longer wear those rose colored glasses and ideas/concepts such as doing this for the child or trying to give parents the benefit of the doubt when their past behavior is a TRUE portrait of their parenting.... aren't things we buy so easily into any more.

I'm sorry but I am soooo past trying to be the bigger person, remaining professional and feeling as if I owe parents something because they pay me.

Everyone thinks child care providers that don't put the kids first are so horrible (etc) but honestly, if more parents actually put their kids first, there would rarely be a provider in the position the OP is in.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 07-20-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:28 PM
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I love how everyone has your back in here! But I would at least give 2days notice, because how will she go to work tomorrow? She would find a place or someone over the weekend for next week.

We had a terrible kid and I understand your pain and frustration, but would it be possible for you to use that money and have someone help you for few hours until he goes? Or you can explain to the mom the difficult you faced at the park and ask her to pick him up early until Friday (or drop him off early depending on the time you go to the park).

I know it would be a tough 2 days, but the response from the mom and other parents will maybe be tougher (imagine if she tells other and they think you are unreliable? and if you explain that the child is too difficult as the reason behind the term they might question why you kept him so long but couldn't handle two more days).
If she were to bring someone in just to help her during the hours he's there the provider would lose money, unless mom is paying her minimum wage to care for Dcb. I wouldn't pay out more per hour to have someone assist me while his there then what I'm being paid to accommodate mom.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 07-20-2016 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:29 PM
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Smile Term now, and have no regrets after

To OP,

It is definitely time to term this child. You have tried getting the mom on board about his behavior and it is not working. The second a kid throws chairs of any size, they would be out the door. The second a kid refuses to listen to me no matter what, even after several attempts to correct it would result in the kid being out the door. At this point, the mom needs to be there more for her son. He needs to just stay with her more and not go to daycare. You are thinking about the safety and well being of you and the other kids in your care, and at this point, he is now a safety risk. I know others have said this already, but term the kid today, and replace him with another kid asap. Don't have regrets after you do this, because you gave your best effort, and it's just not working. As for the mom's reaction, that is not your concern. The mom is responsible for her actions on how she behaves. Know that you have done everything you could.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:41 PM
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I did it! I gave her the notice and processed her a partial refund and she said that she understood and that it was fair. I am always professional and polite but I have hit my limit. My contract says I can term immediately if needed. Mom said she has not being consistent again a home so he has been tired this week and he has not been following his behavior chart at home like before (I believe the reward chart is working against her because I think he feels he needs to be bad first to get her attention and then be good to get back to getting rewards).

I am not only a childcare provider I am a mother of 2 boys (who just left my office job 2 years ago) and if my child was acting crazy like him I would have pulled them myself or said thank you for trying and moved on before the provider termed me. If I have to miss work because my child was not acting appropriately I would not blame that on the provider it sounds like a problem between my child and me and that the provider had no choice but to say no. If I dont want to deal my bad child I dont expect anyine else to want to do it either. Then again my children would never act the way he acted and not felt my wrath the first time

I hope this is a wake up call for mom that she needs to put on her big girl panties and get to parenting. I truly will miss the little boy because he was smart and knew how to be good but he was constantly acting out for whatever reason (divorce, dad lost custody, mom had new boyfriend but he left and came back). I tried for 2 years but I can't save them all. I will still sleep well tonight because I tried my best.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:53 PM
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If she were to bring someone in just to help her during the hours he's there the provider would lose money, unless mom is paying her minimum wage to care for Dcb. I wouldn't pay out more per hour to have someone assist me while his there then what I'm being paid to accommodate mom.
So instead of inconveniencing the parent I am going to inconvenience my self even more by having to hire someone to help me? Nope I don't have an assistant or anyone I can hire that fast nor can I afford that. Dcm has seen this thing coming from miles away. If dcb wants to double down on his crazy behavior that is fine but it should not be my problem. As a responsible parent I wouldn't even allow that to continue. I could tell dcm had moved on and no longer had my back (she no longer asked how he was doing or talked at all ) it almost seemed as she was not trying.
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Old 07-20-2016, 03:06 PM
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I did it! I gave her the notice and processed her a partial refund and she said that she understood and that it was fair. I am always professional and polite but I have hit my limit. My contract says I can term immediately if needed. Mom said she has not being consistent again a home so he has been tired this week and he has not been following his behavior chart at home like before (I believe the reward chart is working against her because I think he feels he needs to be bad first to get her attention and then be good to get back to getting rewards).

I am not only a childcare provider I am a mother of 2 boys (who just left my office job 2 years ago) and if my child was acting crazy like him I would have pulled them myself or said thank you for trying and moved on before the provider termed me. If I have to miss work because my child was not acting appropriately I would not blame that on the provider it sounds like a problem between my child and me and that the provider had no choice but to say no. If I dont want to deal my bad child I dont expect anyine else to want to do it either. Then again my children would never act the way he acted and not felt my wrath the first time

I hope this is a wake up call for mom that she needs to put on her big girl panties and get to parenting. I truly will miss the little boy because he was smart and knew how to be good but he was constantly acting out for whatever reason (divorce, dad lost custody, mom had new boyfriend but he left and came back). I tried for 2 years but I can't save them all. I will still sleep well tonight because I tried my best.
Good for you! And your family and daycare kids, too.
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Old 07-20-2016, 03:24 PM
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So instead of inconveniencing the parent I am going to inconvenience my self even more by having to hire someone to help me? Nope I don't have an assistant or anyone I can hire that fast nor can I afford that. Dcm has seen this thing coming from miles away. If dcb wants to double down on his crazy behavior that is fine but it should not be my problem. As a responsible parent I wouldn't even allow that to continue. I could tell dcm had moved on and no longer had my back (she no longer asked how he was doing or talked at all ) it almost seemed as she was not trying.
My thoughts exactly. Congrats on resolving the issue today!
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