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Unregistered 09:11 PM 07-07-2015
I self referred a report of 3 yr old touching 4 year old in my daycare. What should I expect the process to be? I'm in Washington. Thank you
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Unregistered 03:04 AM 07-08-2015
I would expect nothing from CPS. Its common behavior amoungst children and not something I would report. I would expect both sets of parents to pull their children.
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Josiegirl 03:24 AM 07-08-2015
Unless there's more to the story I agree with PP. I would have discussed it with the dcps and just alert them that it happened but call CPS? Not for something like that. Sorry I can't be any help but I'm wondering if something else prompted your worries?
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Play Care 03:29 AM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Unless there's more to the story I agree with PP. I would have discussed it with the dcps and just alert them that it happened but call CPS? Not for something like that. Sorry I can't be any help but I'm wondering if something else prompted your worries?
This.
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jenboo 06:17 AM 07-08-2015
Definitely depends on the situation and what kind of touching happened and what was said.
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mommyneedsadayoff 06:21 AM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I self referred a report of 3 yr old touching 4 year old in my daycare. What should I expect the process to be? I'm in Washington. Thank you
Is there more to this? Curiousity about private parts is pretty normal for young kids, so I don't think it is worth calling CPS. You should just speak to both parents and let them know it happened and you are handling it. They may pull their kids, but if they feel you have a handle on it, they may not. A similar situation just happened at my sister's daycare. A 5 year old asked to see another kids privates. The kid told on the 5 year old and the parents were notified, but that was the end of it. There was no touching, but it was a learning experience about what is private and appropriate, ect.
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Thriftylady 06:26 AM 07-08-2015
I agree if it was just curiosity, it is normal. I remember when I was a kid I had a friend who was a boy. After kindergarten one day we did "I'll show you mine if you show me yours". It was just quick peeks, but no big deal just curiosity. To me, that isn't reportable. Now if there is more to the story maybe, but without knowing more I wouldn't have reported.
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Unregistered 07:46 AM 07-08-2015
There is nothing to the story I am hiding. There has been a lot of penis curiosity after one child went to dr. for infection 2x. I believe it started with trying to process the situation by trying to play dr. with friend. (No touching, caught it). Parents notified, everyone talked about private areas. Then again, and mom told him you can be a foot dr. not a penis dr. (his response was, "but I am a dr!") I said, no more dr. we are firefighters and put that kit away. I think this child figured out this was a button pusher for adults (he has been referred out prior for behavioral challenges). So then it became a challenge to see what he could get away with. Nothing. I made him my shadow. Yesterday, I thought things have been going pretty good, heard nothing recently about penis's so I let my guard down a little. Still high alert for dr. play or house play or anything involving removing clothes. He didn't remove clothes, he stuck it out the top of his pants, he didn't lay down-he was on his knees, he didn't hide-he was right in front of me. It appeared to be train-block play. I just got the something not right vibe just as other child reached out to touch it.

I called because of the WAC about inappropriate touching. Even though I caught it just as it was happening, even though I do not feel it was inappropriate for their age, it is up to perception. I wanted to cover my butt. Called licensor. She agreed and said self-report so it's on record.
Parents are up to date on this and very supportive.
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Controlled Chaos 07:57 AM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
There is nothing to the story I am hiding. There has been a lot of penis curiosity after one child went to dr. for infection 2x. I believe it started with trying to process the situation by trying to play dr. with friend. (No touching, caught it). Parents notified, everyone talked about private areas. Then again, and mom told him you can be a foot dr. not a penis dr. (his response was, "but I am a dr!") I said, no more dr. we are firefighters and put that kit away. I think this child figured out this was a button pusher for adults (he has been referred out prior for behavioral challenges). So then it became a challenge to see what he could get away with. Nothing. I made him my shadow. Yesterday, I thought things have been going pretty good, heard nothing recently about penis's so I let my guard down a little. Still high alert for dr. play or house play or anything involving removing clothes. He didn't remove clothes, he stuck it out the top of his pants, he didn't lay down-he was on his knees, he didn't hide-he was right in front of me. It appeared to be train-block play. I just got the something not right vibe just as other child reached out to touch it.

I called because of the WAC about inappropriate touching. Even though I caught it just as it was happening, even though I do not feel it was inappropriate for their age, it is up to perception. I wanted to cover my butt. Called licensor. She agreed and said self-report so it's on record.
Parents are up to date on this and very supportive.
Wow...I would pull my child from your care. That is a normal behavior for curious children. Don't make a big deal and redirect. I would let parents know kids were curious and how I was handling it. That would be it. Not a big deal.
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Thriftylady 07:58 AM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
There is nothing to the story I am hiding. There has been a lot of penis curiosity after one child went to dr. for infection 2x. I believe it started with trying to process the situation by trying to play dr. with friend. (No touching, caught it). Parents notified, everyone talked about private areas. Then again, and mom told him you can be a foot dr. not a penis dr. (his response was, "but I am a dr!") I said, no more dr. we are firefighters and put that kit away. I think this child figured out this was a button pusher for adults (he has been referred out prior for behavioral challenges). So then it became a challenge to see what he could get away with. Nothing. I made him my shadow. Yesterday, I thought things have been going pretty good, heard nothing recently about penis's so I let my guard down a little. Still high alert for dr. play or house play or anything involving removing clothes. He didn't remove clothes, he stuck it out the top of his pants, he didn't lay down-he was on his knees, he didn't hide-he was right in front of me. It appeared to be train-block play. I just got the something not right vibe just as other child reached out to touch it.

I called because of the WAC about inappropriate touching. Even though I caught it just as it was happening, even though I do not feel it was inappropriate for their age, it is up to perception. I wanted to cover my butt. Called licensor. She agreed and said self-report so it's on record.
Parents are up to date on this and very supportive.
There is no way I would have reported this. I would have documented it in the file, and possibly made licensing aware. But this is something I would teach was inappropriate, but not report. As a parent I would be LIVID if you reported me to CPS for something like this. He had been to the doctor, and the doctor had looked at him and such, he was doing what many young children do and repeating. Does he need to be taught we don't do this in public? YES. The parents reported to CPS? NO. You have just created a headache for the parents that will just prove unfounded. And you may have made the issues worse if CPS requires more doctors visits and exams for the child depending.
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mommyneedsadayoff 08:21 AM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
There is nothing to the story I am hiding. There has been a lot of penis curiosity after one child went to dr. for infection 2x. I believe it started with trying to process the situation by trying to play dr. with friend. (No touching, caught it). Parents notified, everyone talked about private areas. Then again, and mom told him you can be a foot dr. not a penis dr. (his response was, "but I am a dr!") I said, no more dr. we are firefighters and put that kit away. I think this child figured out this was a button pusher for adults (he has been referred out prior for behavioral challenges). So then it became a challenge to see what he could get away with. Nothing. I made him my shadow. Yesterday, I thought things have been going pretty good, heard nothing recently about penis's so I let my guard down a little. Still high alert for dr. play or house play or anything involving removing clothes. He didn't remove clothes, he stuck it out the top of his pants, he didn't lay down-he was on his knees, he didn't hide-he was right in front of me. It appeared to be train-block play. I just got the something not right vibe just as other child reached out to touch it.


I called because of the WAC about inappropriate touching. Even though I caught it just as it was happening, even though I do not feel it was inappropriate for their age, it is up to perception. I wanted to cover my butt. Called licensor. She agreed and said self-report so it's on record.
Parents are up to date on this and very supportive.
I think you were handling it fine up until calling CPS. I am surprised your licensor agreed tot hat and that the parents are supportive of it. I would be very upset if you called CPS over this situation.
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Heidi 11:59 AM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
I think you were handling it fine up until calling CPS. I am surprised your licensor agreed tot hat and that the parents are supportive of it. I would be very upset if you called CPS over this situation.


My sister had almost the same scenario a few months ago, and she was cited for lack of supervision. She fought it, licensing stuck to their guns. She's not happy about it, but only because her pride is dinged..not ONE citation before this, in 23 years!
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Controlled Chaos 12:06 PM 07-08-2015
OP I am not intending to pick on you - I am just having trouble wrapping my head around your reaction.

Do you mind sharing how long you have been a provider and how many times you have had this issue or reported? I have been a provider 4 years and it seems half the little boys go through a phase where they are touching/exposing their penis. Its always between 18m and 2.5 years old. I don't "allow" the behavior, but there is always a week or so of a lot of redirection.
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MarinaVanessa 02:47 PM 07-08-2015
I'm in CA not in WA but i hear our licensing requirements are similar. In my state this would definitely fall under "unusual incident" and would need to be reported to licensing, which you did. At that point it would be up to licensing to determine whether they think the issue is reportable to CPS which is what they did think and they told you to call and report, which you did. You've covered your bases and did what you could. You were vigilant and in the room and saw what happened so the children were supervised, you were just not able to stop the child from taking out his private part and from stopping the other child from touching it.

Is it typical behavior? Sure. But we all have different expectations that vary from state to state over what is "unusual" and "reportable" and what isn't. They say when unsure, ask ... and you did that and followed licensing's recommendations. You did your job.

CPS will send someone over to interview you and will probably call the parents of both children to interview them as well. They will just want to make sure that this isn't behavior that's accepted in your daycare and that the children aren't left alone or unsupervised which would allow this type of behavior to continue. If they feel concerned in any way they may even interview the children. At that point they just may want to make sure that the child exposing himself isn't being sexually abused at home somehow etc. but I doubt it'll go that route by the way that you've explained it.
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Josiegirl 03:45 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm in CA not in WA but i hear our licensing requirements are similar. In my state this would definitely fall under "unusual incident" and would need to be reported to licensing, which you did. At that point it would be up to licensing to determine whether they think the issue is reportable to CPS which is what they did think and they told you to call and report, which you did. You've covered your bases and did what you could. You were vigilant and in the room and saw what happened so the children were supervised, you were just not able to stop the child from taking out his private part and from stopping the other child from touching it.

Is it typical behavior? Sure. But we all have different expectations that vary from state to state over what is "unusual" and "reportable" and what isn't. They say when unsure, ask ... and you did that and followed licensing's recommendations. You did your job.

CPS will send someone over to interview you and will probably call the parents of both children to interview them as well. They will just want to make sure that this isn't behavior that's accepted in your daycare and that the children aren't left alone or unsupervised which would allow this type of behavior to continue. If they feel concerned in any way they may even interview the children. At that point they just may want to make sure that the child exposing himself isn't being sexually abused at home somehow etc. but I doubt it'll go that route by the way that you've explained it.
You learn something new every day. I honestly just assumed it was 'normal' developmental curiosity of 3-4 yo play. I'm also thinking the state goes above and beyond(or overboard??) sometimes. I'm all for protecting children, and it must be hard to draw that line sometimes, as to what's normal and what's not. It's just super scary sometimes to think how far an innocent situation could be taken.
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MarinaVanessa 04:12 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
You learn something new every day. I honestly just assumed it was 'normal' developmental curiosity of 3-4 yo play. I'm also thinking the state goes above and beyond(or overboard??) sometimes. I'm all for protecting children, and it must be hard to draw that line sometimes, as to what's normal and what's not. It's just super scary sometimes to think how far an innocent situation could be taken.
It is normal ... it's very typical for children this age to be curious obout their bodies and the bodies of their friends ... but in my state this type of behavior is not considered "acceptable" in a child care or school setting.

Think of it like biting ... a child bites and leaves a large bruise or ruptures the skin. The child is not severely hurt and this type of behavior is "typical" for the children's age ... licensing in our state would still consider this reportable because it left a mark/broke the skin. Their concern is the possibility of infection and passing disease to children.

Another example for our state is a child throws a block and it hits a child let's say on the arm ... not reportable. But let's say that the child gets hit in the head. No mark is left. This is still reportable in our state because the child was hit in the head and there could be a possible head injury that we can't visually see. Licencing understands that this type of behavior is normal and typical for children their age but it isn't acceptable and needs to be taken care of and stopped if it continues.

KWIM? Again, it varies from state to state though and some states are more relaxed while others are more strict.

Also if this behavior of a more sexual nature is happening because the child has been exposed to sexual acts at home or is being sexually abused somehow the provider will want a paper trail which would show this behavior as documented and that she self-reported so that she isn't blamed by the parents if they suddenly find themselves being questioned by CPS. It will also help CPS in their case against the parents because the provider is a witness to this child's sexual behavior. This is an EXTREME case but it has happened and happens more than you think. What seems like "typical" natural curiosity could be reported to CPS where they could possibly have a case already opened on the child for what is actually not "natural curiosity". Am I making sense?
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MyAngels 04:14 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm in CA not in WA but i hear our licensing requirements are similar. In my state this would definitely fall under "unusual incident" and would need to be reported to licensing, which you did. At that point it would be up to licensing to determine whether they think the issue is reportable to CPS which is what they did think and they told you to call and report, which you did. You've covered your bases and did what you could. You were vigilant and in the room and saw what happened so the children were supervised, you were just not able to stop the child from taking out his private part and from stopping the other child from touching it.

Is it typical behavior? Sure. But we all have different expectations that vary from state to state over what is "unusual" and "reportable" and what isn't. They say when unsure, ask ... and you did that and followed licensing's recommendations. You did your job.

CPS will send someone over to interview you and will probably call the parents of both children to interview them as well. They will just want to make sure that this isn't behavior that's accepted in your daycare and that the children aren't left alone or unsupervised which would allow this type of behavior to continue. If they feel concerned in any way they may even interview the children. At that point they just may want to make sure that the child exposing himself isn't being sexually abused at home somehow etc. but I doubt it'll go that route by the way that you've explained it.
I agree with this. It sounds like it was handled properly. It doesn't sound like CPS was called on the parents, but on the incident in case something ever does come of it. I would have done the same thing.
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Unregistered 04:24 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
It is normal ... it's very typical for children this age to be curious obout their bodies and the bodies of their friends ... but in my state this type of behavior is not considered "acceptable" in a child care or school setting.

KWIM? Again, it varies from state to state though and some states are more relaxed while others are more strict.

Also if this behavior of a more sexual nature is happening because the child has been exposed to sexual acts at home or is being sexually abused somehow the provider will want a paper trail which would show this behavior as documented and that she self-reported so that she isn't blamed by the parents if they suddenly find themselves being questioned by CPS. It will also help CPS in their case against the parents because the provider is a witness to this child's sexual behavior. This is an EXTREME case but it has happened and happens more than you think. What seems like "typical" natural curiosity could be reported to CPS where they could possibly have a case already opened on the child for what is actually not "natural curiosity". Am I making sense?
I agree. A similar situation occurred when I worked at a center. A child told another child to touch his private parts. The other child said no, and the first child kept insisting. CPS was called just to be on the safe side and the center found out there was already an open CPS case on the child/family. You can never be too sure that it is just "natural age curiosity".
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Thriftylady 04:34 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
It is normal ... it's very typical for children this age to be curious obout their bodies and the bodies of their friends ... but in my state this type of behavior is not considered "acceptable" in a child care or school setting.

Think of it like biting ... a child bites and leaves a large bruise or ruptures the skin. The child is not severely hurt and this type of behavior is "typical" for the children's age ... licensing in our state would still consider this reportable because it left a mark/broke the skin. Their concern is the possibility of infection and passing disease to children.

Another example for our state is a child throws a block and it hits a child let's say on the arm ... not reportable. But let's say that the child gets hit in the head. No mark is left. This is still reportable in our state because the child was hit in the head and there could be a possible head injury that we can't visually see. Licencing understands that this type of behavior is normal and typical for children their age but it isn't acceptable and needs to be taken care of and stopped if it continues.

KWIM? Again, it varies from state to state though and some states are more relaxed while others are more strict.

Also if this behavior of a more sexual nature is happening because the child has been exposed to sexual acts at home or is being sexually abused somehow the provider will want a paper trail which would show this behavior as documented and that she self-reported so that she isn't blamed by the parents if they suddenly find themselves being questioned by CPS. It will also help CPS in their case against the parents because the provider is a witness to this child's sexual behavior. This is an EXTREME case but it has happened and happens more than you think. What seems like "typical" natural curiosity could be reported to CPS where they could possibly have a case already opened on the child for what is actually not "natural curiosity". Am I making sense?
I would be just as upset if my child threw a block and hit someone and CPS got called. I was a foster parent and had foster kids that I was pretty sure were removed from home over nonsense. And then just because they were put into the foster care system, they were put on medications. I had one girl whose doctor took her off medications and the social worker called and demanded she was put back on so they were prescribed. I am not saying every child is abused within the system, and some need taken from their homes. But if normal childhood behavior causes it, it is a tragedy. I am not saying I wouldn't call CPS if I suspect something, because I will but in the case of "playing doctor" or one child throwing a block and hitting another, NO WAY.
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MarinaVanessa 04:47 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I would be just as upset if my child threw a block and hit someone and CPS got called. I was a foster parent and had foster kids that I was pretty sure were removed from home over nonsense. And then just because they were put into the foster care system, they were put on medications. I had one girl whose doctor took her off medications and the social worker called and demanded she was put back on so they were prescribed. I am not saying every child is abused within the system, and some need taken from their homes. But if normal childhood behavior causes it, it is a tragedy. I am not saying I wouldn't call CPS if I suspect something, because I will but in the case of "playing doctor" or one child throwing a block and hitting another, NO WAY.
I think I didn't make it clear ... these examples are reportable to licensing ... then they determine whether they think it's reportable to CPS. I doubt a child getting hit in the head would be reportable to CPS but sexual behavior whether natural curiosity or not is reportable in our state.

In our state licensing takes the "proactive" approach. We had a child get hit on the head by a scooter handle while playing at a daycare center and the child ended up with a brain bleed. The good thing was that the parent was called and told right away about getting hit on the head and the parent chose to stop by and pick him up and take him in to the DR. He ended up needing surgery. The first thing licensing did was check to see if the center made a "licensing" report. They weren't required to report it to CPS I don't think. The little boy recovered fine I think.
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Thriftylady 04:50 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I think I didn't make it clear ... these examples are reportable to licensing ... then they determine whether they think it's reportable to CPS. I doubt a child getting hit in the head would be reportable to CPS but sexual behavior whether natural curiosity or not is reportable in our state.

In our state licensing takes the "proactive" approach. We had a child get hit on the head by a scooter handle while playing at a daycare center and the child ended up with a brain bleed. The good thing was that the parent was called and told right away about getting hit on the head and the parent chose to stop by and pick him up and take him in to the DR. He ended up needing surgery. The first thing licensing did was check to see if the center made a "licensing" report. They weren't required to report it to CPS I don't think. The little boy recovered fine I think.
Okay that is different to me. Reporting it to licensing is one thing. Calling CPS over small things is what bothers me. I still think that reporting normal sexual stuff (that usually isn't sexual at that age) is overboard.
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Crystal 05:14 PM 07-08-2015
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I think I didn't make it clear ... these examples are reportable to licensing ... then they determine whether they think it's reportable to CPS. I doubt a child getting hit in the head would be reportable to CPS but sexual behavior whether natural curiosity or not is reportable in our state.

In our state licensing takes the "proactive" approach. We had a child get hit on the head by a scooter handle while playing at a daycare center and the child ended up with a brain bleed. The good thing was that the parent was called and told right away about getting hit on the head and the parent chose to stop by and pick him up and take him in to the DR. He ended up needing surgery. The first thing licensing did was check to see if the center made a "licensing" report. They weren't required to report it to CPS I don't think. The little boy recovered fine I think.
Injuries at child care in California are reported as Unusual Incidents only IF it requires a visit to the doctor. You do not have to report a child being hit in the head by a block, etc. unless it requires a visit to the doctor. Certainly you can call and ask licensing if they think you should, but it is not a regulation.
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KidGrind 05:28 AM 07-09-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
There is nothing to the story I am hiding. There has been a lot of penis curiosity after one child went to dr. for infection 2x. I believe it started with trying to process the situation by trying to play dr. with friend. (No touching, caught it). Parents notified, everyone talked about private areas. Then again, and mom told him you can be a foot dr. not a penis dr. (his response was, "but I am a dr!") I said, no more dr. we are firefighters and put that kit away. I think this child figured out this was a button pusher for adults (he has been referred out prior for behavioral challenges). So then it became a challenge to see what he could get away with. Nothing. I made him my shadow. Yesterday, I thought things have been going pretty good, heard nothing recently about penis's so I let my guard down a little. Still high alert for dr. play or house play or anything involving removing clothes. He didn't remove clothes, he stuck it out the top of his pants, he didn't lay down-he was on his knees, he didn't hide-he was right in front of me. It appeared to be train-block play. I just got the something not right vibe just as other child reached out to touch it.

I called because of the WAC about inappropriate touching. Even though I caught it just as it was happening, even though I do not feel it was inappropriate for their age, it is up to perception. I wanted to cover my butt. Called licensor. She agreed and said self-report so it's on record.
Parents are up to date on this and very supportive.
You did the right thing!

You called your licensor and followed her recommendation. If I were the parent and you told me the procedure and your licensor recommendation, I’d respect you.
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Unregistered 07:21 AM 07-09-2015
Thank you for the responses and different views. Though I must say I am shocked about the negative backlash I got. It made me sad, and extremely thankful I did not sign in and stayed anonymous.
My experience: I have been licensed more than a dozen years. My education is in ECE. I am under 3 additional programs/agencies other than licensing. I live under a microscope, and I am okay with that, keeps me on my toes.
My call to CPS was not of suspected abuse, or that I felt the child acted inappropriate. I explained the whole background of the situation to the intake worker. I don't think the families should be investigated nor do I think they will. I was self-reporting me, my business. It happened here. I was basically tattling on myself that even though I have been pro-active and aware it wasn't enough.
Do I feel I deserve a compliance report (ruin my perfect record), no I don't. I was vigilant and I have records of what I have done through the whole thing. Nothing has happened yet...I love the waiting, not.
As far as the parents being angry at me. I told the parent of the child with the interest. "If this happens again, (any interest in penis's) I will have to make a CPS call". Please talk about appropriate behavior, keeping in pants, no one looks at each others etc. Why? Cause this parent has no follow through and it's causing other behavioral issues. The parents of the other child took it serious. This parent is like I will take away TV but you can play your Ipad!(Not suggesting should be punished trying to give example of parenting style).

So at the end of the day, I am sad, I am stressed, and I am a little scared. However, I know I did the right thing my integrity is intact.

Happy Wednesday!
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mommyneedsadayoff 08:04 AM 07-09-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Thank you for the responses and different views. Though I must say I am shocked about the negative backlash I got. It made me sad, and extremely thankful I did not sign in and stayed anonymous.
My experience: I have been licensed more than a dozen years. My education is in ECE. I am under 3 additional programs/agencies other than licensing. I live under a microscope, and I am okay with that, keeps me on my toes.
My call to CPS was not of suspected abuse, or that I felt the child acted inappropriate. I explained the whole background of the situation to the intake worker. I don't think the families should be investigated nor do I think they will. I was self-reporting me, my business. It happened here. I was basically tattling on myself that even though I have been pro-active and aware it wasn't enough.
Do I feel I deserve a compliance report (ruin my perfect record), no I don't. I was vigilant and I have records of what I have done through the whole thing. Nothing has happened yet...I love the waiting, not.
As far as the parents being angry at me. I told the parent of the child with the interest. "If this happens again, (any interest in penis's) I will have to make a CPS call". Please talk about appropriate behavior, keeping in pants, no one looks at each others etc. Why? Cause this parent has no follow through and it's causing other behavioral issues. The parents of the other child took it serious. This parent is like I will take away TV but you can play your Ipad!(Not suggesting should be punished trying to give example of parenting style).

So at the end of the day, I am sad, I am stressed, and I am a little scared. However, I know I did the right thing my integrity is intact.

Happy Wednesday!
If your licensor told you to make the call, then you did what you were suppose to do. I have a sensitivity to CPS, as they were called on my sister and she was investigated and it was a horrible experience ad it was over nothing. I guess I was just surprised they told you to call them, but a PP stated her regs, so I guess it makes sense if that is the protocol. I would probably still get rid of the kid doing it if you feel like his parents are not taking it seriously. It probably won't be the last time, especilly if he realizes he can do it and get attention. Good luck and try not to stress too much!
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KiddieCahoots 08:33 AM 07-09-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Thank you for the responses and different views. Though I must say I am shocked about the negative backlash I got. It made me sad, and extremely thankful I did not sign in and stayed anonymous.
My experience: I have been licensed more than a dozen years. My education is in ECE. I am under 3 additional programs/agencies other than licensing. I live under a microscope, and I am okay with that, keeps me on my toes.
My call to CPS was not of suspected abuse, or that I felt the child acted inappropriate. I explained the whole background of the situation to the intake worker. I don't think the families should be investigated nor do I think they will. I was self-reporting me, my business. It happened here. I was basically tattling on myself that even though I have been pro-active and aware it wasn't enough.
Do I feel I deserve a compliance report (ruin my perfect record), no I don't. I was vigilant and I have records of what I have done through the whole thing. Nothing has happened yet...I love the waiting, not.
As far as the parents being angry at me. I told the parent of the child with the interest. "If this happens again, (any interest in penis's) I will have to make a CPS call". Please talk about appropriate behavior, keeping in pants, no one looks at each others etc. Why? Cause this parent has no follow through and it's causing other behavioral issues. The parents of the other child took it serious. This parent is like I will take away TV but you can play your Ipad!(Not suggesting should be punished trying to give example of parenting style).

So at the end of the day, I am sad, I am stressed, and I am a little scared. However, I know I did the right thing my integrity is intact.

Happy Wednesday!
.....I agree with you. What if you went againt your licensor and didn't call CPS? Is that a battle any of us should be taking on, and risking losing our business? We are not the people who determine if it is acceptable or not, we are only the people that are governed by our license to report.
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Josiegirl 09:59 AM 07-09-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
If your licensor told you to make the call, then you did what you were suppose to do. I have a sensitivity to CPS, as they were called on my sister and she was investigated and it was a horrible experience ad it was over nothing. I guess I was just surprised they told you to call them, but a PP stated her regs, so I guess it makes sense if that is the protocol. I would probably still get rid of the kid doing it if you feel like his parents are not taking it seriously. It probably won't be the last time, especilly if he realizes he can do it and get attention. Good luck and try not to stress too much!
I hope my replies didn't sound like backlash to you, it's certainly not intended. I know it's my own ignorance of any regulations like that and I don't think Vt. has anything to that effect. I detest the way almost every thing we do could be held under a microscope. It never used to be that way and I still believe the state jumps in too hard and fast at times, just knowing a couple of issues within my own small town. Actually, it was the local school system that took matters way overboard and ended up shattering a couple different familys' home lives even though it was nothing.
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Thriftylady 10:33 AM 07-09-2015
I don't think I could do daycare in a state with such laws. I for sure wouldn't "report" myself for something that I didn't do wrong and happened between two children with supervision. The states are far over reaching on these things, and I agree we should not be under such a microscope. Most of us are in it to love and protect children. It is the ones that are not in it for that that I worry about. I didn't mean to sound harsh, I just know how I would feel if someone called CPS about something that kids just do.
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Controlled Chaos 12:14 PM 07-09-2015
I apologize if I came across as harsh yesterday. It sounds like you followed the regs in your state. Good luck
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Janiam 04:10 PM 07-09-2015
I had a somewhat similar situation a few months ago, only a parent complained to me about a child touching her child ....3 weeks prior. This was from my drama mama and a long story. I termed immediately and contacted my licensor to give her a heads up becouse I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt this incident didn't happen. She said I needed to make a CPS report due to the children's ages. 11 days later drama mama makes a report. I am so thankful I covered my own butt and came out clear on the other side. It was very stressful for me and the childs family, but they are great clients and the transparency with the parents, licensing and CPS was very beneficial. I documented every thing possible and the investigation came back unfounded. I think if you didn't make a report and a parent decides later to make report it will look like you are hiding something. I think you did the right thing. If there is an investigation it will be uncomfortable but CYA and hopefully you too will come out clear on the other side. Best of luck, I hope it goes quickly for you.
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Unregistered 06:05 AM 07-14-2015
I have not heard anything from licensor or CPS. Could be it wasn't sent over for action or they have not got to it.
Yesterday, was yet another attempted incident-within 2 hours of being awake. I terminated family with 2 work days notice and written plan child will not play in centers with others, for the protection of everyone. Only group play I can shadow.
I believe this behaivor is all based on challenge of getting away with something. I once again referred to be evaluated by professional for the oppositional behaivor to see if it's within normal levels or he needs some help to be successful.
I recommened he have a nanny at home rest of year vs daycare setting.
Mom text last night and said they absolutely don't trust anyone in their home. This made me angry. I feel like if you would trust your kids with someone, you best trust them with your replaceable belongings, judgment I know but I feel pretty angry.
He is going to go to another place and they probably won't warn the daycare. So they potentialy will go through this headache. I am not sure I want to be in business anymore. I love do many parts of my job but there is so much stress from things like this.
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Thriftylady 06:50 AM 07-14-2015
I would have felt forced to term as well. Please don't take it personally, or as something against your business. I understand what you mean about the not trusting someone in their home thing. But as providers sometimes all we can do is our best and what we think is right.
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Unregistered 07:24 AM 07-14-2015
Awwww thanks Thriftylady.

To clarify. I recommended they use a nanny in home till this challenging behavior passes. I think sending to another daycare without warning them is wrong.

She was saying they don't trust a nanny or anyone in their home. I feel like this, my daycare is separate from my home but I leave a lot of personal information on my desk, cash etc out. If I can't trust my employees then I sure the hell shouldn't trust with my business or someone kids. So the parents should feel like they are trusting their kids with someone that they would trust in their home. Just my view.


From here on-it's pure venting, I am so angry
I do take it personal. I had them 4 years. Since the child was 3 months. I will never understand how we can give so much to people and then when it ends they get all pissed. This is not my first termination, I had many the first few years. I won't care for a child that I don't feel is the best fit, it is unfair to them. Almost every family has come back and either thanked me or just acted like nothing happened and stay in touch.
This child has been a challenge of one thing after another for 3 years. I have spent a lot of money on extra staffing just for him trying to help him work through things. I have home and drank wine, and shed some tears over this kid more than once.

I terminated with the tone of what is best for the child, not hey your kid is trouble your on your own. I also offered a personal note, along with my official termination, saying please understand this is hard for me too but we will get this figured out together.

I am not able to care for the kids, partner with the families year after year but keep emotions out of it. I know some can and I admire it.

Them leaving is hard, though a bit relieving in some ways. Them not showing today (I open at 6 for them. Next kid isn't till 8. Is rude, disrespectful and makes me expect some serious backlash. I emailed my licensor to let her know in case they make a false complaint.
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MarinaVanessa 09:21 AM 07-14-2015
I think you did the right thing. I think that offering daycare in our homes is difficult because this is our home and even though it's better to keep things all business it's difficult to do that. This is still our home and we have so much to lose.

Many parents see us only as "babysitters" yet they want the world without thinking about the needs of the group as a whole. Chalk it up to a bad experience and move on.
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Thriftylady 09:43 AM 07-14-2015
Yeah I knew what you were saying about the nanny. And I understand what you are saying about the next daycare. But you can't control that and have to let it go. What she probably really meant is that they won't pay the money for a nanny, and they won't disclose because they are afraid they won't find care.
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Unregistered 01:23 PM 07-14-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
Okay that is different to me. Reporting it to licensing is one thing. Calling CPS over small things is what bothers me. I still think that reporting normal sexual stuff (that usually isn't sexual at that age) is overboard.

A lot overboard imo. I would be livid if I were the parent, and as always if there is a child/parent that isn't fitting into the group it's better to terminate if you aren't getting anywhere. How I would have handled it.

Over time I have read some posts on here where the provider calls cps etc. on their client for car seats, or child curiosity..etc. and then in other posts the same ones complain how hard it is to get kids. Ya think??! Aside from that, you are burdening cps when there are real issues going on with abuse etc. and doing that to a family is a very serious thing and in this case imo unwarranted.
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LysesKids 02:01 PM 07-14-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
A lot overboard imo. I would be livid if I were the parent, and as always if there is a child/parent that isn't fitting into the group it's better to terminate if you aren't getting anywhere. How I would have handled it.

Over time I have read some posts on here where the provider calls cps etc. on their client for car seats, or child curiosity..etc. and then in other posts the same ones complain how hard it is to get kids. Ya think??! Aside from that, you are burdening cps when there are real issues going on with abuse etc. and doing that to a family is a very serious thing and in this case imo unwarranted.
The car seat thing is a state mandate for all providers regardless... it's the law that we call if a child is put in a dangerous situation otherwise we risk loosing our business & in some states, we could risk loosing our own children during an investigation if we don't report something we question (doesn't have to be verified, but suspected)
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ColorfulSunburst 04:55 PM 07-14-2015
My opinion: the boy founds a way to get as much attention as he wants. Who is a winner in this situation? The boy.
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Unregistered 05:59 AM 07-15-2015
Yep, negative attention is better then no attention.

And if it gets to the point I have to call cps on one of my clients they will be long gone beforehand.
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ColorfulSunburst 08:33 AM 07-15-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Yep, negative attention is better then no attention.
No. For a child no attention is better then negative attention. But they need attention and understand very fast that they can get negative attention faster then earn positive attention. Just because for adults it is more simple to give negative attention then find a way to give a positive attention.

If you try to find a reason to give him a lot of positive attention and ignore his "doctor activities" there is a big chance that he will stop to try to get attention in his negative way.
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Tags:cps, investigation
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