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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Help for My Co-worker (long, sorry)
Hunni Bee 06:24 PM 11-09-2015
I am asking this on behalf of my coworker - who's classroom is not functioning effectively and we don't know what to do about it. She's a veteran, great teacher but just at a lost with this particular group. She's got a co-teacher who is also good but she's very new.
It's a class of 20 4.5 year olds - 7 girls, 13 boys.
She's got one very serious behavior issue in her room. This kid is pretty out of control...tantrums constantly, cannot play well with others, hits/kicks/bites/throws objects at the teachers and kids, delusional. Management is "working" with the parents but they are resistant to have him evaluated - fear of "labeling" - and you know how it is in centers.
I am in the next classroom (rooms are connected) and I do "respite" with him when she just can't with him anymore. He does none of that in my room.
She has one other pretty yucky behavior situation...but he is just completely catered to at home and thinks everything revolves around him (he's got a pretty serious health condition).
The other 18 have mostly normal behavior. BUT - many of the boys have formed a sort of mob mentality. They do a lot of running, yelling, wrestling, chasing etc type stuff. They don't play as much as they just get in a big group and act crazy. Inside, outside, at meals, at nap. They don't get through many activities successfully....they goof off all the time. We do a lot of academics but we balance it with a lot of playtime too.
The girls are all mild-mannered but between the big group of boys and the two crazies they are neglected.
I remember when I first came here, I had this same type of group (but much worse) and you all helped me. I want to help her make this a successful year but we are stumped. I do believe way too much attention is being given to the two and the other are just going their own way.
I suggested she break down the two groups (ten to each teacher) and pair the children off daily. Assign each pair an activity, set a timer and move through the groups, spending time with each for a while. When the timer rings, each pair moves to a new activity. As they are increasingly able to handle that successfully...let the pairs choose their own activities. Any and all craziness gets shut down immediately.
What do you all think? This is totally exclusive of the big behavior guy. She should include him, but not focus on him. If he can't deal, have him leave for a while. I am totally willing to take him. This is about not losing 18 chasing after 2.
Suggestions? We have no power to term anyone, btw.
It's a class of 20 4.5 year olds - 7 girls, 13 boys.
She's got one very serious behavior issue in her room. This kid is pretty out of control...tantrums constantly, cannot play well with others, hits/kicks/bites/throws objects at the teachers and kids, delusional. Management is "working" with the parents but they are resistant to have him evaluated - fear of "labeling" - and you know how it is in centers.
I am in the next classroom (rooms are connected) and I do "respite" with him when she just can't with him anymore. He does none of that in my room.
She has one other pretty yucky behavior situation...but he is just completely catered to at home and thinks everything revolves around him (he's got a pretty serious health condition).
The other 18 have mostly normal behavior. BUT - many of the boys have formed a sort of mob mentality. They do a lot of running, yelling, wrestling, chasing etc type stuff. They don't play as much as they just get in a big group and act crazy. Inside, outside, at meals, at nap. They don't get through many activities successfully....they goof off all the time. We do a lot of academics but we balance it with a lot of playtime too.
The girls are all mild-mannered but between the big group of boys and the two crazies they are neglected.
I remember when I first came here, I had this same type of group (but much worse) and you all helped me. I want to help her make this a successful year but we are stumped. I do believe way too much attention is being given to the two and the other are just going their own way.
I suggested she break down the two groups (ten to each teacher) and pair the children off daily. Assign each pair an activity, set a timer and move through the groups, spending time with each for a while. When the timer rings, each pair moves to a new activity. As they are increasingly able to handle that successfully...let the pairs choose their own activities. Any and all craziness gets shut down immediately.
What do you all think? This is totally exclusive of the big behavior guy. She should include him, but not focus on him. If he can't deal, have him leave for a while. I am totally willing to take him. This is about not losing 18 chasing after 2.
Suggestions? We have no power to term anyone, btw.
spedmommy4 08:46 PM 11-09-2015
One big thing stood out for me. He doesn't do it in your classroom. What's different? Are you using a different method of behavior management than she is?
Are the personalities in your classroom so vastly differently that he's just meshing better with your group? In order for you to eliminate the behaviors, you need to know what is causing them.
For example:
He isn't getting along with the other kids. Does he have good social skills? (Does he know how to enter a game in progress, request a turn, etc). If not, this could be a cause for tantrums and fighting.
Is he getting attention for the negative behaviors in the classroom? This could be perpetuating the problem.
I think your idea of breaking the class into groups could also be a helpful strategy for 2 reasons:
*It will allow the teacher to balance out high energy and low energy personalities
* It will allow the teacher to better observe for triggers for the behavior (are certain kids or types of interactions always setting this kiddo off?)
Feel free to message me if you need more information 😀
Are the personalities in your classroom so vastly differently that he's just meshing better with your group? In order for you to eliminate the behaviors, you need to know what is causing them.
For example:
He isn't getting along with the other kids. Does he have good social skills? (Does he know how to enter a game in progress, request a turn, etc). If not, this could be a cause for tantrums and fighting.
Is he getting attention for the negative behaviors in the classroom? This could be perpetuating the problem.
I think your idea of breaking the class into groups could also be a helpful strategy for 2 reasons:
*It will allow the teacher to balance out high energy and low energy personalities
* It will allow the teacher to better observe for triggers for the behavior (are certain kids or types of interactions always setting this kiddo off?)
Feel free to message me if you need more information 😀
Preschool/daycare teacher 11:23 AM 11-10-2015
I don't really have any suggestions, but I'm just thinking, "No wonder it's a crazy group! 20 children in one room, all mixed together with only two teachers? I cannot imagine trying to keep order with that, unless they are in a school atmosphere where they sit at desks all day, but that's inappropriate for their age. Splitting the group in half sounds like a good idea to try. I remember at a daycare I used to work at we had ten toddlers (ages 19 months - 3 years) who were all in one room together one day and it was absolutely crazy. The next day I requested splitting the group into two rooms across the hall from each other where I would take half and my helper would take half (my helper didn't like to do much so she wasn't too thrilled lol). Things went so much smoother after that and I was able to still see what was going on in the other room due to having half doors on the classrooms. Once I left they started combining the group again and things got crazy again. I don't know how her classroom is set up and if it would be possible to completely split the group like we did, but hopefully there would be a way she could have a defined area for half the group and another defined area for the other half. Surely that would help cut down on the mob mentality. I also suggest as much structure as possible with free play being split up into several different shorter sessions each day rather than in bigger chunks of time, if she's not already doing that. Is it possible to split the boys up who are acting as a mob? Sitting at different tables for meals, cots being spaced out as much as possible from the other mob boys, etc?
Laurel 11:40 AM 11-10-2015
If the troublemaker behaves for you is it possible to add him to your class and she take one of yours in return? Maybe there is some dynamic going on with her group of kids like one or two of them ramp up the others. If the combination changed, maybe that would change?
She could also try the "If you can't play nicely Johnny then you may sit at this table and I will choose an activity for you to do." Keep this up until he can get along with others. Or maybe have him shadow her. I worked in a second grade room and whenever troublemaker acted up I'd take his hand and tell him that he has to come with me and not leave my side as I can't get done my work when I have to keep stopping to correct him. You can be sure I made it VERY boring for him.
She could also try the "If you can't play nicely Johnny then you may sit at this table and I will choose an activity for you to do." Keep this up until he can get along with others. Or maybe have him shadow her. I worked in a second grade room and whenever troublemaker acted up I'd take his hand and tell him that he has to come with me and not leave my side as I can't get done my work when I have to keep stopping to correct him. You can be sure I made it VERY boring for him.
Ariana 05:01 PM 11-10-2015
I think you have a great idea for sure. Pairing the crazies/boys with the girls is a great strategy. You could also look at how the classroom is set up to allow for out of control behavior. Are there differences between your set up and hers? Setting up several small areas and making sure no more than 3-4 students are in each area at a time might help. There should be absolutely no room for rough housing or running. During group time having boys seperated as best as possible would help too. Not sure what your program or schedule is like but that might help.
stephanie 06:32 PM 11-10-2015
How much outside time and/or large motor time are they getting? If they have plenty of time to run around elsewhere they may not be so wild in the classroom.
I think splitting the class up into 2 groups is a good idea, 20 kids is A LOT. I would do smaller group activities as much as possible (like a PP said, only a certain # of kids in the block area, book area, etc.) Emphasize routine and structure, let them know what's coming next and what's expected of them.
Are there 1 or 2 boys that kind of rile the rest of the group up? Maybe he/they could be separated from the rest of the group, not in a timeout way, just redirected to another activity, and can rejoin when they are behaving.
I think splitting the class up into 2 groups is a good idea, 20 kids is A LOT. I would do smaller group activities as much as possible (like a PP said, only a certain # of kids in the block area, book area, etc.) Emphasize routine and structure, let them know what's coming next and what's expected of them.
Are there 1 or 2 boys that kind of rile the rest of the group up? Maybe he/they could be separated from the rest of the group, not in a timeout way, just redirected to another activity, and can rejoin when they are behaving.
Febby 08:38 PM 11-10-2015
Without seeing or working with the group, here's what I would do:
-Limit or eliminate large group activities. If they're kept in smaller groups, they'll have less chance to set them each other off. With truly rough groups, I've been known to split my circle times up, too. It's a pain, but you do what you need to do.
-If free play centers are not already set up with a way to limit the number of children in each center, do that. If they are and it's still not working, then evaluate what's going wrong. Sometimes the tough kids will favorite a particular play center. Keep an eye on it. There's a reason I hang out between the block center and gross motor center during free play in my room.
-In my room, if you are acting too crazy in a center and a quick redirection isn't successful, then you go sit down at a table with whatever activity I grab. You can rejoin when you are calm enough and I say so.
-I would probably put children in groups of 3 or 4 instead of pairs and put the 3-4 most challenging ones in a single group and have one teacher stay with that group. LOTS of modeling. Model behavior. Model play. Model social skills. Stay on the smallest problem with that group. Teach them how to behave and how to play appropriately.
-MANIPULATIVES. The majority of wild, crazy boys I've had love manipulatives. Keep several sets on rotation. Borrow from other rooms if needed/possible.
-If a child is too disruptive to my classroom, then I call management and tell them to come get the child. If one was out of control hitting/kicking/biting me or my other teacher, then they'd be going up to the front office with an incident report. And here's a thing: if it inconveniences management (in most centers), they're going to be more in the game on correcting the behavior (or removing the child). That's how you get kids termed in a center.
-Limit or eliminate large group activities. If they're kept in smaller groups, they'll have less chance to set them each other off. With truly rough groups, I've been known to split my circle times up, too. It's a pain, but you do what you need to do.
-If free play centers are not already set up with a way to limit the number of children in each center, do that. If they are and it's still not working, then evaluate what's going wrong. Sometimes the tough kids will favorite a particular play center. Keep an eye on it. There's a reason I hang out between the block center and gross motor center during free play in my room.
-In my room, if you are acting too crazy in a center and a quick redirection isn't successful, then you go sit down at a table with whatever activity I grab. You can rejoin when you are calm enough and I say so.
-I would probably put children in groups of 3 or 4 instead of pairs and put the 3-4 most challenging ones in a single group and have one teacher stay with that group. LOTS of modeling. Model behavior. Model play. Model social skills. Stay on the smallest problem with that group. Teach them how to behave and how to play appropriately.
-MANIPULATIVES. The majority of wild, crazy boys I've had love manipulatives. Keep several sets on rotation. Borrow from other rooms if needed/possible.
-If a child is too disruptive to my classroom, then I call management and tell them to come get the child. If one was out of control hitting/kicking/biting me or my other teacher, then they'd be going up to the front office with an incident report. And here's a thing: if it inconveniences management (in most centers), they're going to be more in the game on correcting the behavior (or removing the child). That's how you get kids termed in a center.
Preschool/daycare teacher 08:36 AM 11-11-2015
Originally Posted by Febby:
-If a child is too disruptive to my classroom, then I call management and tell them to come get the child. If one was out of control hitting/kicking/biting me or my other teacher, then they'd be going up to the front office with an incident report. And here's a thing: if it inconveniences management (in most centers), they're going to be more in the game on correcting the behavior (or removing the child). That's how you get kids termed in a center.
I second this -If a child is too disruptive to my classroom, then I call management and tell them to come get the child. If one was out of control hitting/kicking/biting me or my other teacher, then they'd be going up to the front office with an incident report. And here's a thing: if it inconveniences management (in most centers), they're going to be more in the game on correcting the behavior (or removing the child). That's how you get kids termed in a center.
In a daycare I previously worked at (same one I mentioned yesterday) when we had a child acting out and taking away too much time or attention from the other children, we were allowed to send them to the director and let her deal with them and return the child when she thought they were ready. After so many times of this and constantly having the same child in her office, she'd start discussing behavior with the parent and trying to get them to work with us with the child's behavior. If that wasn't working, she'd eventually let the parent know it wasn't going to work out and term the child. Sometimes the parent would get tired of all the bad reports the director was having to give and withdraw the child themselves out of anger. This would take months though before the director would term, unless the behavior was way too aggressive and we risked losing other children due to injuries inflicted by the child.
Hunni Bee 11:33 AM 11-11-2015
So he lost it today and I took him. He calmed down immediately and I was no nonsense with him about what his choices needed to be. Other teacher did call management and she called parents.
Thanks for all the advice... I appreciate it!
Thanks for all the advice... I appreciate it!
Hunni Bee 11:37 AM 11-11-2015
Originally Posted by Febby:
Without seeing or working with the group, here's what I would do:
-Limit or eliminate large group activities. If they're kept in smaller groups, they'll have less chance to set them each other off. With truly rough groups, I've been known to split my circle times up, too. It's a pain, but you do what you need to do.
-If free play centers are not already set up with a way to limit the number of children in each center, do that. If they are and it's still not working, then evaluate what's going wrong. Sometimes the tough kids will favorite a particular play center. Keep an eye on it. There's a reason I hang out between the block center and gross motor center during free play in my room.
-In my room, if you are acting too crazy in a center and a quick redirection isn't successful, then you go sit down at a table with whatever activity I grab. You can rejoin when you are calm enough and I say so.
-I would probably put children in groups of 3 or 4 instead of pairs and put the 3-4 most challenging ones in a single group and have one teacher stay with that group. LOTS of modeling. Model behavior. Model play. Model social skills. Stay on the smallest problem with that group. Teach them how to behave and how to play appropriately.
-MANIPULATIVES. The majority of wild, crazy boys I've had love manipulatives. Keep several sets on rotation. Borrow from other rooms if needed/possible.
-If a child is too disruptive to my classroom, then I call management and tell them to come get the child. If one was out of control hitting/kicking/biting me or my other teacher, then they'd be going up to the front office with an incident report. And here's a thing: if it inconveniences management (in most centers), they're going to be more in the game on correcting the behavior (or removing the child). That's how you get kids termed in a center.
Thank you! Super helpful.Without seeing or working with the group, here's what I would do:
-Limit or eliminate large group activities. If they're kept in smaller groups, they'll have less chance to set them each other off. With truly rough groups, I've been known to split my circle times up, too. It's a pain, but you do what you need to do.
-If free play centers are not already set up with a way to limit the number of children in each center, do that. If they are and it's still not working, then evaluate what's going wrong. Sometimes the tough kids will favorite a particular play center. Keep an eye on it. There's a reason I hang out between the block center and gross motor center during free play in my room.
-In my room, if you are acting too crazy in a center and a quick redirection isn't successful, then you go sit down at a table with whatever activity I grab. You can rejoin when you are calm enough and I say so.
-I would probably put children in groups of 3 or 4 instead of pairs and put the 3-4 most challenging ones in a single group and have one teacher stay with that group. LOTS of modeling. Model behavior. Model play. Model social skills. Stay on the smallest problem with that group. Teach them how to behave and how to play appropriately.
-MANIPULATIVES. The majority of wild, crazy boys I've had love manipulatives. Keep several sets on rotation. Borrow from other rooms if needed/possible.
-If a child is too disruptive to my classroom, then I call management and tell them to come get the child. If one was out of control hitting/kicking/biting me or my other teacher, then they'd be going up to the front office with an incident report. And here's a thing: if it inconveniences management (in most centers), they're going to be more in the game on correcting the behavior (or removing the child). That's how you get kids termed in a center.