Really?

[hippiedaycaregal]

Have you ever had a family on a subsidy who obviously doesn't qualify? New family just started last week, both parents drive brand new SUVs and own a boat and send their kids in expensive clothes (I'm a finger painting mud friendly daycare too!) . Nice family but they're obviously working the system. It's sad because so many families need the subsidy but never get off the wait list. One of my friends works for a subsidized only preschool and she says it's very common.

[daycarediva]

Yup. It's pretty common.

Are the parents married? I am guessing they aren't and/or they claim that they don't live together.

I know many families who are on section 8, food stamps, medical, subsidy, and they have more money than I do.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

Are the parents married? I am guessing they aren't and/or they claim that they don't live together.

I see that ALL.THE.TIME. The reward for not getting married.

I have wondered if *they* got rid of the marriage variable entirely and always combined the household income of both PARENTS. Period. (Like FAFSFA already does) Whether that means one or two households is irrelevant. Would this abuse stop?

Spitballing : Thoughts? It is naptime and I am sincerely curious.

[hippiedaycaregal]

They have different last names, so probably not married even though they have two kids. Man I shouldn't have got married It doesn't pay to be honest nowadays.

[hippiedaycaregal]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

I see that ALL.THE.TIME. The reward for not getting married.

I have wondered if *they* got rid of the marriage variable entirely and always combined the household income of both PARENTS. Period. (Like FAFSFA already does) Whether that means one or two households is irrelevant. Would this abuse stop?

Spitballing : Thoughts? It is naptime and I am sincerely curious.

With childcare being such a huge chunk of family income and cost going up that's not a bad idea if they could weed out all of the fakers there would be more money to go around. Anytime goverment reform is mentioned you always hear about fraud but funny enough never in the childcare industry.

[Cat Herder]

Originally Posted by hippiedaycaregal

With childcare being such a huge chunk of family income and cost going up that's not a bad idea if they could weed out all of the fakers there would be more money to go around. Anytime goverment reform is mentioned you always hear about fraud but funny enough never in the childcare industry.

I only see one perceived flaw in your theory. I'll take that and raise you a:

"Having children is a huge hunk of family income.

If people stopped feeling entitled to money for breeding, maybe there would be no need for childcare subsidy. "

I love a good debate. Yes, I know $hit happens, that is the REAL reason for subsidy. This is in hopes of good fun and honest discussion.

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

I only see one perceived flaw in your theory. I'll take that and raise you a:

"Having children is a huge hunk of family income.

If people stopped feeling entitled to money for breeding, maybe there would be no need for childcare subsidy. "

I love a good debate. Yes, I know $hit happens, that is the REAL reason for subsidy. This is in hopes of good fun and honest discussion.

You're right about that. The mom to my special needs, micro preemie twins was on top of the world before her multi-million dollar babies were born. She lost everything: her house, her car, two successful businesses, and her husband. She's went from well-to-do to flat broke. I just got her new approval from childcare services and her copay went from $10/month to over $500. She doesn't make much money hourly, and misses 25% MINIMUM of her scheduled hours each month due to her kids' health needs. I just don't understand how they think a single mom of 4 with no child support coming in can afford to pay that. She'd honestly come out ahead by not working at all, but she won't do that. It must be different in different geographic areas, because what I see here is moms with very little income getting very little help from childcare assistance. One of my assistance kids' mom was awarded $11 a month in assistance. She's a full time student with a part time job (she quit her full time job to return to school so that she could support her kids-she also receives NO child support.) Her mom pays her childcare because there is no way that she could. I'd love to see more people qualify for assistance here, because there is a true need that isn't being filled.

[Cat Herder]

Leigh, I had a couple clients hit with circumstances like that, too. One was the family I gave three years worth of free childcare, for two children. Another was for 2 years, one child.

Both families are back on their feet, now. It took 9 years for the first, 6 for the second. BUT their worlds are turning back around.

To your DCF. IME, People are always willing to help those who put forth effort to help themselves. I am glad they found you. Have you referred her to child support recovery services?

[sharlan]

My DD sees it every day. Parents come to apply for free/reduced lunches driving brand new cars, wearing lots of sparkly jewelry, carrying Coach purses.

They have no income, friends support them. Or so they say.

[JackandJill]

Originally Posted by hippiedaycaregal

Have you ever had a family on a subsidy who obviously doesn't qualify? New family just started last week, both parents drive brand new SUVs and own a boat and send their kids in expensive clothes (I'm a finger painting mud friendly daycare too!) . Nice family but they're obviously working the system. It's sad because so many families need the subsidy but never get off the wait list. One of my friends works for a subsidized only preschool and she says it's very common.

Originally Posted by daycarediva

Yup. It's pretty common.

Are the parents married? I am guessing they aren't and/or they claim that they don't live together.

I know many families who are on section 8, food stamps, medical, subsidy, and they have more money than I do.

This is really common where I live, and it is 99.9% of the reason I do not take subsidies. I've interviewed families who roll up in Mercedes Benz that want me to take a voucher from them - ya, no!

I also work at a salon, and so many of the women there work every system available, it makes me sick! I feel if they took all their efforts in learning how to defraud the system and put it into bettering their career, they wouldn't need the assistance in the first place!!

[Blackcat31]

I have 2 families on subsidy. One married with 2 kids.

The other family is divorced with 2 kids but living with their significant other (who is not bio-parent) in a really nice house they just purchased together.

The married parents are both home today.
I have their kids in care.

The divorced parent is in the Caribbean on a white sandy beach drinking fruity drinks and posting on FB how much fun their having.

I have those kids in care today too.
Bio-parent won't take them because it's not a scheduled visit.

[AmyKidsCo]

Yup. It's frustrating when I'm working 50+ hours per week and barely making ends meet and they're working the system, using my taxes.

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

I only see one perceived flaw in your theory. I'll take that and raise you a:

"Having children is a huge hunk of family income.

If people stopped feeling entitled to money for breeding, maybe there would be no need for childcare subsidy. "

I love a good debate. Yes, I know $hit happens, that is the REAL reason for subsidy. This is in hopes of good fun and honest discussion.

I also saw a TON of under the table work and drug money in my days in the low income area we previously lived in. ALL subsidy, all better off than dh and I working our butts off.

[Ariana]

I don't deal with subsidies but I wonder every day how people afford the crap they have! Boggles my mind.

[Annalee]

Originally Posted by daycarediva

I also saw a TON of under the table work and drug money in my days in the low income area we previously lived in. ALL subsidy, all better off than dh and I working our butts off.

When my dh family came here to visit for the first time (they are from a drug infested state where the majority are drawing SSI but live in and drive more expensive things than we do) they went back and told the we lived in a mansion and were RICH! Made me angry because we work hard for what we have and I don't consider my home a mansion by no means but IT IS MINE and I obtained it legally. They draw from every form of government assistance possible. Just not fair!

[Cat Herder]

A thing that I really found unsettling was my States reaction to my giving free care instead of accepting subsidy.

Years ago, I applied for compassionate variance and received it. I diligently maintained it. I saw it as my opportunity to offer one or two slots, per year, as a gift to a family in need preventing them from getting on assistance.

I had the desire, square footage, ratios, equipment and experience. I did not claim a loss on taxes/meal served as they were extra, no compensation, slots. It literally cost the State/Fed nothing.

All good right?

No. Now they no longer grant the variances and ask us to have all families apply for services. "It effects the food program reimbursements of the local schools".

Really.

Both of the families I have on subsidy have more discretionary income than I do. I have one who proudly told me she was getting 11000$ in "taxes" back. That was in the beginning of Feb. She's already "broke". 2 yo son has been wearing the same pair of ratty sweatpants for 4 days in a row now and his shoes that I bought for christmas are getting small. I need better clients.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Both of the families I have on subsidy have more discretionary income than I do. I have one who proudly told me she was getting 11000$ in "taxes" back. That was in the beginning of Feb. She's already "broke". 2 yo son has been wearing the same pair of ratty sweatpants for 4 days in a row now and his shoes that I bought for christmas are getting small. I need better clients.

Those are the parents that irritate me. Always spending on themselves before the kids. I know of a few who I really think only had kids for the gov't support. Around here, it's too easy to get, for those who shouldn't get it anyway.

[hwichlaz]

While I try not to judge the people in line in the store on WIC and SNAP because I can't know their circumstances.....

a sudden job loss doesn't make all of your nice things disappear etc....

It's harder not to when you're close enough to see more of their lifestyle.


It made me super self concious about what I was wearing or carrying with me when I used my WIC after my husband left though...and that's sad.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by hwichlaz

While I try not to judge the people in line in the store on WIC and SNAP because I can't know their circumstances.....

a sudden job loss doesn't make all of your nice things disappear etc....

It's harder not to when you're close enough to see more of their lifestyle.


It made me super self concious about what I was wearing or carrying with me when I used my WIC after my husband left though...and that's sad.

Good point there. Some more valuable things, like a new car, could easily be downgraded if finances forced it, but personal things, like fancy clothes, can't be cashed in so easily, so people can have "nice stuff" and still be in financial trouble because of a change. Nobody is set for life financially. Even Bill Gates or Donald Trump could have something major happen and go bankrupt.

[hippiedaycaregal]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

I only see one perceived flaw in your theory. I'll take that and raise you a:

"Having children is a huge hunk of family income.

If people stopped feeling entitled to money for breeding, maybe there would be no need for childcare subsidy. "

I love a good debate. Yes, I know $hit happens, that is the REAL reason for subsidy. This is in hopes of good fun and honest discussion.

I gotcha, and completely get it! I could've used the subsidy when I was working two jobs and raising my daughter while going to school! I think it's a good program I just hate to see it abused. I was on WIC in school and I remember being embarrassed of a nice cell phone (that truly was gifted) and I was always well dressed (thrift store queen) and made sure I looked nice, and got off the damn program as soon as I started making more money

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by Cat Herder

Leigh, I had a couple clients hit with circumstances like that, too. One was the family I gave three years worth of free childcare, for two children. Another was for 2 years, one child.

Both families are back on their feet, now. It took 9 years for the first, 6 for the second. BUT their worlds are turning back around.

To your DCF. IME, People are always willing to help those who put forth effort to help themselves. I am glad they found you. Have you referred her to child support recovery services?

Her child support stopped because her ex lost his job (more than once). He is now soon heading to prison for a white collar crime, so there will be no support for years. She got more help from assistance when she WAS receiving support than she does now-that is what frustrates me.

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by hwichlaz

While I try not to judge the people in line in the store on WIC and SNAP because I can't know their circumstances.....

a sudden job loss doesn't make all of your nice things disappear etc....

It's harder not to when you're close enough to see more of their lifestyle.


It made me super self concious about what I was wearing or carrying with me when I used my WIC after my husband left though...and that's sad.

You're so right. I'm a foster parent. I HATE having to use WIC for my foster kids while I'm carrying a nice purse with my nails done, have a cart full of "extras", and then loading my stuff into my Denali. I feel like I'm constantly being judged. Then, when you have 3-4 kids on WIC, they all have different last names, and you really get looks then.

[daycarediva]

Originally Posted by Leigh

You're so right. I'm a foster parent. I HATE having to use WIC for my foster kids while I'm carrying a nice purse with my nails done, have a cart full of "extras", and then loading my stuff into my Denali. I feel like I'm constantly being judged. Then, when you have 3-4 kids on WIC, they all have different last names, and you really get looks then.

YES! It is painful to know that you're being judged, and I try SO HARD not to be that person in the grocery store because I truly do not know circumstances.

We were foster parents and received WIC and food stamps (this was back when they were food stamp cash, not card) and I got soooo many dirty looks.

One of my first families when I opened was a sibling set- two different fathers but the mother was on point. She worked really hard and paid for care in cash. Those kids were always dressed like models straight out of catalogs though, despite her low income. She COULD have qualified for every subsidy imaginable, but didn't even apply. She finally confessed to me that dcd/her ex was a big time drug dealer and that's why she left him, but he took good care of her boys.

When he came to pick up one day, my dh was here and he knew the guy. He has (had, probably more now) EIGHT kids with like 5 or 6 different mothers and he took care of ALL of them. He bought them all food, clothes, school supplies, etc.

He also worked a FT job and paid child support out of that.

She was one of my BEST clients of all time- even used her tax return to pay me ahead of time for care, paid her rent ahead, saved the rest.

Family situations are COMPLICATED nowadays!

This post is a couple of months old, but I wanted to dive in. I understand there are people who abuse the system and those type of people will always have struggle in there life and probably never manage to get to the top. However, I know how it feels to be on government assistance to then a middle class and then back on assistance again. Its so easily to judge and be critical when you never know the situation and can only see as far as what your eyes show you. I have worked at programs that offer assistance and have experienced a situation where a woman was divorced with 4 children. Her husband left her for his mistress and all she had was there black Cadillac Escalade. It was paid off. but looked like it was new because it was well maintained. It was hard on her because she always had a certain lifestyle and she thanked me one day for not looking down on her and she burst into tears that day in the office. She said every time she went to the grocery store to swipe her food stamp card she had crazy looks because her kids was so well dressed, but no one knew those clothes were from her previous lifestyle. She even told me one time a lady followed her out of the store just to see what she drove! I came from a family of 7 siblings and my dad owned a construction business my mom was a homemaker and we grew up poor. My dad was the jack-of-all trades and worked very hard, but our family of 10 was too large. So I understand and I vowed to never live the way I lived and I managed to live up to that vow. However, when I was pregnant I couldn't work due to complications and my husband had a fairly decent job at the plant. The plant shut down and we had to get on government assistance. At the time we drove an Ford Expedition and people accused us (not knowing) of beating the system and the Expedition wasn't fancy! So I understand how it is to be poor, for a family to loose a job, and to be looked down on.....Oh here's another story my good friend of mines owns a beauty shop (who is also an author)....and she is very talented!! She has been doing my hair for 17 years. When my husband lost his job at the plant she knew of my situation and did my hair for free! I refused, but she always insisted. Others thought I was beating the system with my hair done and driving an Expedition....so we can't be so quick to judge. Especially if you have never been there!

[Ariana]

Nevermind old thread!

[happymom]

What I want to know is WHY ARE WE PAYING ATTENTION TO HOW OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR THEIR GROCERIES!?

I have never in my life noticed that someone was paying for groceries with something other than cash/credit card. Occasionally I will become annoyed with the price matchers that take 30 minutes at the register, or the guy at the self checkout who is paying with A HANDFUL OF COINS.

I guess I don't get why it's anyone's business but their own if they are on assistance.

[happymom]

Sorry, I also didn't realize it was old.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by happymom

What I want to know is WHY ARE WE PAYING ATTENTION TO HOW OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR THEIR GROCERIES!?

I have never in my life noticed that someone was paying for groceries with something other than cash/credit card. Occasionally I will become annoyed with the price matchers that take 30 minutes at the register, or the guy at the self checkout who is paying with A HANDFUL OF COINS.

I guess I don't get why it's anyone's business but their own if they are on assistance.

Normally I would agree that what someone does is their own business....however, the families that most of us (as providers) are venting about aren't the random people on assistance but are venting about the families we have in care that "dump" their children at daycare every day while they spend as little of their free time as possible on raising or even being "with" those children.

Like the Unregistered that tried to show a different perspective ... I try hard not to judge others but when I see certain behaviors day in and day out from families I've gotten to know pretty well over the years, it's a completely different story.

...and when one of my single moms (who pays very little towards her child care costs) complains to me that she can't afford to buy her child mittens because she is saving her "extra" money for her upcoming trip to the Caribbean, it IS my right to judge.

Originally Posted by happymom

Sorry, I also didn't realize it was old.

Not old enough that the topic isn't relevant still.

[happymom]

I totally get that, also as a provider you see the inside WAY more than someone standing in line at the grocery store.

I just feel bad that people have to worry about being judged, especially if they are going through a hard time financially.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Originally Posted by happymom

What I want to know is WHY ARE WE PAYING ATTENTION TO HOW OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR THEIR GROCERIES!?

I have never in my life noticed that someone was paying for groceries with something other than cash/credit card. Occasionally I will become annoyed with the price matchers that take 30 minutes at the register, or the guy at the self checkout who is paying with A HANDFUL OF COINS.

I guess I don't get why it's anyone's business but their own if they are on assistance.

It kind of comes with the territory because the funds for assistance come from somewhere (taxes). Kind of like if you loan a friend money and then you see what they are buying. You might not say anything, but you will judge what they buy since they borrowed money from you to get it. That is why it is best to just give the money as a gift versus a loan that you expect to be paid back. It won't necessarily stop you from making judgement, but it is better than feeding the resentment. With taxes, there is no choice but to pay them and we get very little say in how the money is used. (I guess your choice could be to stop working, but that is probably not the best thing to do).

Our country is very divided right now. The very wealthy can afford to live well. The poor qualify for help. The shrinking middle class are the ones who are feeling the burn.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

Normally I would agree that what someone does is their own business....however, the families that most of us (as providers) are venting about aren't the random people on assistance but are venting about the families we have in care that "dump" their children at daycare every day while they spend as little of their free time as possible on raising or even being "with" those children.

Like the Unregistered that tried to show a different perspective ... I try hard not to judge others but when I see certain behaviors day in and day out from families I've gotten to know pretty well over the years, it's a completely different story.

...and when one of my single moms (who pays very little towards her child care costs) complains to me that she can't afford to buy her child mittens because she is saving her "extra" money for her upcoming trip to the Caribbean, it IS my right to judge.

I can understand, but I just wanted to say I have seen both sides. From working at fast food jobs, then working in social services, then to unemployed then to working again as a supervisor then as a daycare owner. In my area if you don't work you don't qualify for the CCS program. One of the rules is you must work or attend school and the child must attend daycare everyday. The families are given a certain number of days a child can miss or they may risk losing assistance....so I guess each state has different rules for CCS services.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

...and when one of my single moms (who pays very little towards her child care costs) complains to me that she can't afford to buy her child mittens because she is saving her "extra" money for her upcoming trip to the Caribbean, it IS my right to judge.

Yep, I try super hard not to judge strangers and I try to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone... But when I know a situation/person pretty well, and a bad choice is made, I judge the crap out of it

It's all about achieving a good balance. No, we shouldn't judge too quickly. At the same time, we shouldn't be accepting of negative behaviors and choices.

[Josiegirl]

It's hard not to judge because there ARE people who abuse the system, terribly. Essentially, they're taking money from the ones who do desperately need it to get over a hard time. The system needs to be changed! The people that receive help should put something back into the system, whether it be time volunteering or something. Honest hard working underpaid families seem to have to jump through hoops for months to get any help, in their dire time of need.

[Cat Herder]

Flip side for debate: Historically the fear of public humiliation and ostracism is what kept people in line in a civilized society. Without it what motivates people to work if their needs can be met otherwise?

Originally Posted by Josiegirl

It's hard not to judge because there ARE people who abuse the system, terribly. Essentially, they're taking money from the ones who do desperately need it to get over a hard time. The system needs to be changed! The people that receive help should put something back into the system, whether it be time volunteering or something. Honest hard working underpaid families seem to have to jump through hoops for months to get any help, in their dire time of need.

I agree the system does need some work and then there will be those who always find a way around it. There will always be people who abuse the system. Also contrary to what people believe unemployed people are not only getting assistance. A matter of fact if you're a family of 5 making no more than 3200-3900 (can't remember exact) per month than you qualify for food stamps! People usually assume that assistance is only for the unemployed. Here is a list of some of the government assisted programs:
SNAP
TANF
Medicare
Medicaid
Financial Aid
Grants
Meals on Wheels
CACFP......these all come from taxpayers

It made me think wow...some of the wealthiest companies receive government ballouts! My daycare receives CACFP reimbursements and its a government program and it sure does helps alot😃

....My apologies I meant 2200-3000 didn't realize I typed 3200-3900!

[Miss A]

When I lost my insurance in December of 2015 due to my parents divorce, I applied for healthcare insurance through healthcare.gov, the only place i could apply through due to state rules. After inputting my information, I was automatically enrolled in Medicaid because of my income qualifications. I did not want to be on Medicaid, I felt like I was taking something away from someone else who needed it more than I did. But because I qualified for coverage through them, I was not able to enroll in another insurance program.

Then in January 2016 I found out I was pregnant. It was unplanned, and a complete shock. But, having Medicaid turned out to be a great thing! Then I got a letter from the state that because I was pregnant and on Medicaid I qualified for WIC, and was enrolled in that program. In the beginning it wasn't a huge help, and I seldom used it. But now that DS is 8 months old, it really helps with formula cost.

Both my fiance and I work 50+ hours a week, and I also have a weekend gob waiting tables. I choose to put the money that I can save using WIC into a high interest savings account and a Roth IRA. DS has one more WIC appointment and then we will be discontinuity services. The program has helped to balance the cost of feeding an infant, allowed me to save some $$$ to continue to better our life and have an emergency fund. I am thankful for this program.

[Mad_Pistachio]

I have no experience with child care assistance or food stamps, but it reminded me of something.
I came to financial office at college to confirm my citizenship (the system was acting up), and the lady at the desk casually said that another woman would come back on Monday and "reward you whatever you are eligible for." I said I wasn't eligible for anything. "Pell Grant?" - "No, I make too much." - "Did you fill out FAFSA?" - "Yes, it says I make too much." - "Where do you work?" - "I don't, my husband does." And then in a highly disappointed tone she says, "Oh, you're maaaaarried..." Yeah, it's a bummer.
When I told my husband, he asked if I'd like to get divorced. That way, as a single mother, I'd get all the financial aid I needed. And as a straight-A student, I wouldn't be threatened to lose it.
FAFSA gave me .25 cents and said, "Have fun at college."

Originally Posted by Mad_Pistachio

I have no experience with child care assistance or food stamps, but it reminded me of something.
I came to financial office at college to confirm my citizenship (the system was acting up), and the lady at the desk casually said that another woman would come back on Monday and "reward you whatever you are eligible for." I said I wasn't eligible for anything. "Pell Grant?" - "No, I make too much." - "Did you fill out FAFSA?" - "Yes, it says I make too much." - "Where do you work?" - "I don't, my husband does." And then in a highly disappointed tone she says, "Oh, you're maaaaarried..." Yeah, it's a bummer.
When I told my husband, he asked if I'd like to get divorced. That way, as a single mother, I'd get all the financial aid I needed. And as a straight-A student, I wouldn't be threatened to lose it.
FAFSA gave me .25 cents and said, "Have fun at college."

I hate you had to experience that. If the lady had any knowledge of her job she would have known that it doesn't matter if a person is single or married it's based on household income. How, who & why did they hire her???? Years ago if your household made under 50,000 you would qualify for financial aid now the amount has risen to around 80,000. The maximum amount I believe one can receive per semester is around 5500, but that depends if your'e full or part-time to receive the max. So initially if a man makes 35,000 a year as an insurance agent and his wife works part-time as a bookeeper making 15,000 year, their household would qualify for financial aid because its less than the current 80K. Both have good jobs both work, but are under the income limit. ...like I mentioned before previous personal experience with assistance, previous jobs, & knowledge helps me to understand all sides.

Our system is so broken, and I can totally see why people who are in it NEVER get motivated to try for financial independence!

I'm 2012 I was a lead teacher at a center making $14/hour, married with one kid. Scraping by, hit very hard by hard times. My husband had a low paying restaurant job. My paychecks were eaten up mostly by our health insurance and my daughters daycare tuition.Dumpy apartment we paid for, thrift store clothes we paid for, old unreliable car we paid for, no frills, no eating out desperately trying to save to buy a house and get a start for our family.

My assistant teacher was making $12/hour. Single with live-in boyfriend who made a good income that She didn't report. She ate out everyday at lunch and most nights for dinner. Had a 3 bedroom section 8 house-free. Healthcare for her and her 3 kids-free. Child care for her 3 kids- free. Cash assistance each month she used on pot and cigs admittingly. Food stamps-free. She and her kids got "obama cell phones"-free. They got bikes through a gov program-free. Tickets to all sorts of events like circus-free. Comcast service- free. Her paychecks were hers to spend on whatever she wanted...

Why would she ever give that up to struggle like I was?

5 years later I am a homeowner, business owner, and enjoying financial freedom and the pride of independence. She is doing the same thing she was 5 years ago. Still addicted. Still dependent.

This is how the system keeps people crippled. It is not a helping hand... very deceptive.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I hate you had to experience that. If the lady had any knowledge of her job she would have known that it doesn't matter if a person is single or married it's based on household income. How, who & why did they hire her???? Years ago if your household made under 50,000 you would qualify for financial aid now the amount has risen to around 80,000. The maximum amount I believe one can receive per semester is around 5500, but that depends if your'e full or part-time to receive the max. So initially if a man makes 35,000 a year as an insurance agent and his wife works part-time as a bookeeper making 15,000 year, their household would qualify for financial aid because its less than the current 80K. Both have good jobs both work, but are under the income limit. ...like I mentioned before previous personal experience with assistance, previous jobs, & knowledge helps me to understand all sides.

That is not exactly true. I have several single parents that aren't married and the only income in their household that matters is hers. They do not consider or even ask about her significant other's income.

Eligibility for some of these government assistance programs isn't simply not earning X amount of income.

There are spend downs and other financial obligations and expenses taken into consideration. The formula used to decide eligibility for my state's child care assistance program is complex and never cut and dried.

You can two separate single parents earning the same income and each with one child. Depending on each of their unique situations they may or may not qualify for assistance.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Our system is so broken, and I can totally see why people who are in it NEVER get motivated to try for financial independence!

I'm 2012 I was a lead teacher at a center making $14/hour, married with one kid. Scraping by, hit very hard by hard times. My husband had a low paying restaurant job. My paychecks were eaten up mostly by our health insurance and my daughters daycare tuition.Dumpy apartment we paid for, thrift store clothes we paid for, old unreliable car we paid for, no frills, no eating out desperately trying to save to buy a house and get a start for our family.

My assistant teacher was making $12/hour. Single with live-in boyfriend who made a good income that She didn't report. She ate out everyday at lunch and most nights for dinner. Had a 3 bedroom section 8 house-free. Healthcare for her and her 3 kids-free. Child care for her 3 kids- free. Cash assistance each month she used on pot and cigs admittingly. Food stamps-free. She and her kids got "obama cell phones"-free. They got bikes through a gov program-free. Tickets to all sorts of events like circus-free. Comcast service- free. Her paychecks were hers to spend on whatever she wanted...

Why would she ever give that up to struggle like I was?

5 years later I am a homeowner, business owner, and enjoying financial freedom and the pride of independence. She is doing the same thing she was 5 years ago. Still addicted. Still dependent.

This is how the system keeps people crippled. It is not a helping hand... very deceptive.

In MN a live in boyfriend that is NOT the biological or adoptive father to the children does not count in the mother's income. He has NO financial obligation to financially support her or her children even if he is sleeping in her bed.

It would be no different than a single parent having a room mate that shares living expenses. The room mate has no financial obligation to anything other than their half the rent/utilities etc.... The room mates income has no bearing on the type or amount of assistance the single parent receives.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

That is not exactly true. I have several single parents that aren't married and the only income in their household that matters is hers. They do not consider or even ask about her significant other's income.

Eligibility for some of these government assistance programs isn't simply not earning X amount of income.

There are spend downs and other financial obligations and expenses taken into consideration. The formula used to decide eligibility for my state's child care assistance program is complex and never cut and dried.

You can two separate single parents earning the same income and each with one child. Depending on each of their unique situations they may or may not qualify for assistance.

You must be referring to another government program. The one I'm referring to at the moment is FASFA guidelines for financial aid. Which depends on the household income. If "Jane" is married to "Joe" and Jane had 2 kids before marriage and her and Joe don't have any children together then his income wouldn't matter for certain government programs like food stamps.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Our system is so broken, and I can totally see why people who are in it NEVER get motivated to try for financial independence!

I'm 2012 I was a lead teacher at a center making $14/hour, married with one kid. Scraping by, hit very hard by hard times. My husband had a low paying restaurant job. My paychecks were eaten up mostly by our health insurance and my daughters daycare tuition.Dumpy apartment we paid for, thrift store clothes we paid for, old unreliable car we paid for, no frills, no eating out desperately trying to save to buy a house and get a start for our family.

My assistant teacher was making $12/hour. Single with live-in boyfriend who made a good income that She didn't report. She ate out everyday at lunch and most nights for dinner. Had a 3 bedroom section 8 house-free. Healthcare for her and her 3 kids-free. Child care for her 3 kids- free. Cash assistance each month she used on pot and cigs admittingly. Food stamps-free. She and her kids got "obama cell phones"-free. They got bikes through a gov program-free. Tickets to all sorts of events like circus-free. Comcast service- free. Her paychecks were hers to spend on whatever she wanted...

Why would she ever give that up to struggle like I was?

5 years later I am a homeowner, business owner, and enjoying financial freedom and the pride of independence. She is doing the same thing she was 5 years ago. Still addicted. Still dependent.

This is how the system keeps people crippled. It is not a helping hand... very deceptive.

So sad...it is and will always be people who beat the system! No matter how hard the system is tweeked. What I have experienced is for those who take advantage of the system everything seems to work for them (at least with the benefits), but they will always have the same mentality and always be further behind. Even when they think their getting ahead. Many years ago when my circumstance had changed I was humiliated because others made me feel like I was beating the system because I drove a decent, but not fancy expedition to haul all my youngins'😃....I just want others to understand that the unemployed and single are not the only ones on benefits

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You must be referring to another government program. The one I'm referring to at the moment is FASFA guidelines for financial aid. Which depends on the household income. If "Jane" is married to "Joe" and Jane had 2 kids before marriage and her and Joe don't have any children together then his income wouldn't matter for certain government programs like food stamps.

Depends on the college and whether the college uses a standard federal methology or an instutional method or perhaps a combination of both.

My sister has 3 children and is married to the father of her youngest two. Her oldest is in college and although her step father has an excellent job his income wasn't considered in the financial aide my niece got.

So not sure if there are exceptions, special considerations or what but my sisters situation didn't work as you stated (all household income counts) so I can only speak from that experience.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

Depends on the college and whether the college uses a standard federal methology or an instutional method or perhaps a combination of both.

My sister has 3 children and is married to the father of her youngest two. Her oldest is in college and although her step father has an excellent job his income wasn't considered in the financial aide my niece got.

So not sure if there are exceptions, special considerations or what but my sisters situation didn't work as you stated (all household income counts) so I can only speak from that experience.

....interesting

FAFSA is federally regulated and the application process that includes the questionaire is the same for everyone. There are no special paperwork handled by any college to fill out FAFSA. It must and can be only completed through the government website and you must enter information from your income tax to complete it. Then the information is sent to the college on one choice.

You can be either be a dependent of someone or independent when completing the FAFSA. When a child graduates high school and wants to attend college he or she needs his parent's income tax info to complete a FAFSA. If you're independent and can't remember your tax info there is an IRS link that automatically retrieves a person's information.

[hwichlaz]

My oldest qualified for FAFSA under just my income because I had physical custody. But the she moved in with her dad right before HS graduation and had to use his household income instead of mine and it sabotaged her.

Originally Posted by hwichlaz

My oldest qualified for FAFSA under just my income because I had physical custody. But the she moved in with her dad right before HS graduation and had to use his household income instead of mine and it sabotaged her.

She should have continued to use yours..its legal. As long as she lived with you more than 6 months.

....and listed as a dependent on your tax return

[hwichlaz]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

She should have continued to use yours..its legal. As long as she lived with you more than 6 months.

She lived with him for second semester of junior year through graduation, and since she lived with him for more than six months it was his right to claim her.

[Mad_Pistachio]

Ok, I'll read the replies when I have my comp back. I'll just say that I don't want to disclose my husband's wage here, but it is more than 35K. And no, we can't afford college, my Mom pays for it, and if I go to University, I'll apply for a student loan to cover it. There you go, middle class at its best/worst.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

In MN a live in boyfriend that is NOT the biological or adoptive father to the children does not count in the mother's income. He has NO financial obligation to financially support her or her children even if he is sleeping in her bed.

It would be no different than a single parent having a room mate that shares living expenses. The room mate has no financial obligation to anything other than their half the rent/utilities etc.... The room mates income has no bearing on the type or amount of assistance the single parent receives.

You are correct within most aspects of assistance. Section 8 housing however requires all adults and incomes to be listed on the application as well as their incomes. They had been in a long term relationship and yet she applied alone and mentioned on a few occasions that she was nervous to be busted by her landlord.

Also, she requested, and was granted refusal of raises at annual review time so that her income would not exceed benefit requirements. Just another exame of how it can be a disservice to a gal in the long term...

[Mad_Pistachio]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You can be either be a dependent of someone or independent when completing the FAFSA. When a child graduates high school and wants to attend college he or she needs his parent's income tax info to complete a FAFSA. If you're independent and can't remember your tax info there is an IRS link that automatically retrieves a person's information.

True. We file jointly (started when I applied for permanent residency to prove we have bona fide marriage... that's a whole different story), and his income is too big to get anything, even loose change. Obviously, FAFSA can see the joint income.

[hwichlaz]

I had a single mom with two kids come in crying. She got a raise at work, which bumped her a tax bracket. It meant that her $1 an hour raise was going to get her less than .25 cents an hour take home....and her subsidy was based on her gross income....so her copay was going up. So getting that raise actually cost her considerably. She ended up pulling her kids and having them bounced around from relative to relative during the day so she could make rent.

So....I can see why someone would decline a raise.