So, I have talked about a 10 month old dcb that constantly cried, yesterday I made the decision to term him. I told mom that it was just getting to difficult to meet the babies needs and be able to care for the other kids as well. I felt horrible because I really do like the parents. But it was just too stressful for me with that little boy crying all day. So mom was upset that I would no longer take care of her son. She said she didn't know what she was going to do. They made a payment on Monday for the next two weeks. I told her yesterday which was Wednesday. I wanted to give them time to find someone else so I told her I would still watch him until next Friday since thats when they are paid up until. She told me this morning that they have decided "After my decision to no longer care for her son, she has decided to not have him continue to go here until the 12th. Yesterday is his last day and she will get back the money for the rest of this week and next week... Hmm... I've never dealt with this kind of situation. The way I see it is I was giving her notice that 12th would be the last day of care. I am still offering to provide care until that day, if she refuses I don't see why I should have to give her the money back. Just like if she gave me notice, I wouldn't not provide care for the last two weeks just because she told me she was going to leave..... At the same time, I don't want to deal with drama... WWYD?

Reply

No. You should not refund the money. You were willing to meet the needs of the family through the date they are paid up to, she made the decision to not return.

Do you have a contract?

Reply

I'd keep the money. You've given her proper notice and she's chosing to keep her child home.

Reply

Yes, I do have a contract and it does state that all child care payments are non-refundable.

Reply

There is your answer. Politely tell her to read her copy of the contract that she signed.

Reply

Enforce it

Reply

Exactly.....

Reply

There is your answer. Point her in person or verbally,( if by phone) to the page on the contract that she signed. Tell her you are willing to give care until the date they are paid. If she chooses to remove him before then, that is her choice. However, it is non-refundable.

Reply

A contract is a contract but I did wonder after reading your other post if the Mom was aware of the child crying all day. You kept mentioning how happy they were to have you.

If she was unaware of the child crying every day and this was only sprung on her at termination then it's hardly fair to keep her money.

She's probably keeping him home because she feels he is miserable at your house. (which he seems to be.) No reflection on you - I know you have been doing everything in your power to make him happy. He's probably one of those "rage babies" we've been hearing about, majorly intense OR there is something physically wrong with him and his Mother needs to find out what it is.

Now if she DID know about the child crying all the time and sent him anyway then by all means keep it. It's yours and it's well deserved for all the time you were tortured by this child.

Reply

No matter what the reason for termination (if mom was blissfully unaware of her son's unhappiness, let's say), if you followed your policies and provided the notice required by the contract then you should not have to refund the $$. The reason doesn't matter, providing proper notice was given (my contract says 2 weeks).

Reply

I always talk to the parents about how their child did that day. In this case I would let her know if he was really fussy. I had talked to her about it and asked her about it. She said he does well at home. She said he cries but gets over it quickly at home, while here he did not..

Reply

You just solved your own problem! Reprint: highlight that sentence and highlight her signature. No refund! Stand your ground!

Reply

saying "he does well at home" and then saying "well he does cry but gets over it quickly" lets you know that she IS aware of what you are talking about but the difference at home is that the parents do a mad scramble to give him whatever he wants so he "gets over it quickly". She doesn't understand that you can't do the same thing. If I term, I do refund any money for care not provided assuming the child does not attend at all anymore. Thats just me. I'd rather get them out the door with nothing further to complain about or come back to me for. It cuts ties completely and helps me feel that I did the right thing. However, if you do have a contract that states in case of termination, no refunds are given then you are well within your right to keep the money.

Reply

I guess if it were me I would not refund, but if it were easier without the little one then i would refund since I gave notice. Especially since I've had time to contemplate the opening coming up. Just do what your contract states.

I do hate that type of situation. not my favorite part of the job

Reply

I know, it's very hard and it makes me feel like the bad guy. But I could have waited until Friday and tell her today is your last day.. But I didn't because I wanted to give her time to find different child care.

Reply

My parents are required to pay their last two weeks before they even start. My contract states that if they choose to keep their child home during their last two weeks - there will be no refund.

Since your contract states there are no refunds, PLUS you've offered to care for him until the end of next week, that is THEIR decision to keep him home. I would not give them a refund.

Reply

If you are licensed it couldn't hurt to give your licensing rep a call with a heads up, too.

Reply

Why would I need to call licensing??

Reply

Because many families terminated by their providers for poor behavior tend to call in a report of some sort...

You should expect a inspection visit soon.

Reply

Because parents who don't get what they want tend to do crazy things like make complaints against the provider who doesn't give in to their demands.

If you give her a refund I wouldn't worry about it.

Reply

Well, thats just sad. If she chooses to do that, that is up to her, I have nothing to hide. I'm not going to give her her money back for fear of her calling licensing.

Reply

Good for you!!! It will help her next provider.

I added some tags to the bottom...they will lead you to other folks who had similar issues, too.

Reply

It is VERY common for parents to call licensing when they have been termed. The care that they would have willingly taken their child to the next day or week BEFORE the termination now is worthy of a complaint to licensing.

Reply

Giving the money back won't help with the decreasing the odds of being called into licensing. She feels she deserves that.

It's the NO that she received that will cause her to call the state. Having the money complaint is just a cherry on top.

Reply

I would offer the money back. You feel you can not provide services to this family anymore and therefore need to return the money she has offered in exchange for you providing services. She paid 2 weeks ahead assuming you would hold up your end of the bargain. Unless you expect people to pay every morning I think it is unfair not to return the money.

If anyone told me they wanted me to find another provider- even if they were honest and told me the truth I would expect that they would not want my kid back not even one more day and would then not charge me.

Sounds like you want time to fill the spot which I think is unfair.

Reply

There are providers here that had their licensing called because someone disagreed with something they posted...

It is true....

Reply

Part of me wants to give in and give her some money back, the part that feels bad and doesn't like feeling like the bad guy. I really liked these parents and hate that they reacted this way. But then I think about the fact that I am running a business and I don't think I am being unfair. I gave her proper notice and am just enforcing the contract she signed. She came by today and just asked for her sons stuff. I didn't know what to say to her, I should have said something but felt maybe I should just leave it at that and avoid a confrontation. I am sad that a parent has left on bad terms...

Reply

try not to let it get to you. you didnt do anything wrong. like nanny said, parents dont like hearing no and I think we can all agree that most of the time, terming leads to bad feelings from the parents. its never going to be fun to have someone say they cant or wont watch your child anymore.

Reply

If you have your contract to back you up then use it and dont refund that money. Esp because you were very willing to keep the child until the end. No refunds!
Debbie

Reply

Thanks to everyone for all of your advice. I'm glad to know that everyone seems to think I was fair(other than dcm). Now I will just enjoy my quiet days and wait for my licensing visit......

Reply

Would you guys call licensing in this situation? If so, what should I say?

Reply

I called when a DCM was irate because I gave a 2 week notice then a week later a $10 fee when she didn't pay on time. She went off screaming cussing, name calling, and threatening my daycare in front of neighbors I actually had to call the police to get her to leave. She left before they arrived. I freaked of course. I called my monitor and gave him a heads up of the whole issue and I called CCRC as well because that's who paid for her daycare. Nothing ever came of it. In fact she called me 3 weeks later aplogizing in a few dif voicemails. Finally I took another call and she asked if she could come back. I said no maam and she had the nerve to ask why. After I basically told her her actions were unacceptable she laughed at me, said whatever and hung up. Still haven't heard a peep from the state or anyone else.

I would just call and give them a heads up.

Reply

I am required to update my roster so I just call to let them know "there has been a change".

I tell them "I have an opening I will be filling with ****" or let them know they can give out my info for a client in medical need or with special need.

When they ask why, and they always do, I tell them the facts of the termination with no emotion, extra info or hurt feelings involved.

Often they offer some night training at the local college on Behavior Management, Working with Parents or Classroom Management, which I gladly accept since I love free dinner, door prizes and a "girls night out"...plus I know that is what they want for their files. Never been a real problem.

Reply

I have never made that call. The few times I have had to term I just got ready for an inspection.

In my state they inspect even if the person calls and complains about something that is completely legal and in the Iowa Code. Even if the inspectors KNOW that the provider is in compliance (meaning that the parent is complaining about something we MUST do or CAN do)...... if your name comes up you will be inspected.

If someone called and told them I have blonde hair they would come and inspect.

A few years ago I had a lady call me who had just received temporary custody of her neice who had been removed from her sisters home. She asked for an interview and needed immediate care. I set up an interview for the next day.

In the middle of nap I get a knock on my door and it's the mother of this child, her girl friend and her boy friend. I answered the door by opening up the front window and said "may I help you?".

The girl tells me that she's the Mom of the kid who might come to my day care. She tells me her sister told her she was interviewing me tomorrow and her DHS worker told her that she could come at ANY time and INSPECT my home because her kid might come here. She told me the DHS worker told her that I'm required by law to allow the parents access to my home.

I had never met the mom.
I had never met the aunt.
I had never met the kid.
The Mom or the aunt had NEVER seen me care for any kid at any time.

I litterally did not know these people from Adam. The ONLY time I had had any contact with any of them was a phone call that day from the aunt.

I told the Mom that I could not allow her in my home at this time. I couldn't allow her and her two friends to come in. I told her it wasn't safe for me to allow total strangers in my house because one of them has a child that I "may" care for some time in the future.

Not to mention that this mom had JUST had her kid removed from her... obviously there was something seriously wrong.

The Mom called her DHS worker and complained that I would not allow her to come in and inspect my home.

Well you guessed it.......

a couple of days later I got inspected by the DHS. "Random" inspection.

I got inspected because I refused to allow a total stranger who hadn't ever even met me....did NOT have a kid in my house.. had NEVER seen me care for a kid... had two friends with her.. and had just had her kid removed.

Now I don't know if the DHS worker really told her she could come at any time to inspect me but either way... it didn't matter. I still got inspected over it.

I was completely minding my own business .... and because I "happened" to be the provider who agreed to meet the aunt the next day... and because I stuck to my guns and said NO to a parent... I got my arse inspected.

In the end, it doesn't matter who complains or what their complaint is. In my state you can get inspected for having your name mentioned even if the content of the mention is one hundred percent safe and compliant with the law.

Oh one more inspection story: I took a training on infants. I was scheduled to do eight classes but only needed four to finish what I needed for my registration.

I attended four weeks in a row and completely disagreed with pretty much their entire content. When I finished what I had to do I had to tell the instructor that I wasn't coming back for the next four classes so they could take me off of their roster and allow someone else in the class.

When I told her I wasn't coming back she asked why. I told her in no uncertain terms that I totally disagreed with this training and I felt it was harmful to providers to train them in this way. I told her I couldn't respect training that they couldn't even FILM unless they had one adult for one child. I asked her if she happened to notice that the techniques they were promoting REQUIRED one to one care and her entire audience were GROUP child care providers.

She of course got offended and asked me pretty much how I could possibly analyze their stuff and how would "I" know whether or not the techniques were solid or good. I told her I had been in child care nearly thirty years and that I have a college education and am a nurse. I am as educated as you are and I have more experience. I think it's a SHAME that you guys are teaching this content.... blah blah blah.

Well long story short.. I had a DHS inspector at my house by ten thirty the next morning. She made a complaint on me and they took it.

She had never seen me take care of kids.
Never been in my home.
Didn't know a single one of my clients.

Knew NOTHING of me other than what I told her and they still took the complaint.

I got a hundred percent on BOTH inspections. I knew when the Mom of the kid who I was going to interview the next day left my house that the DHS would be knocking at my door. I knew the day I told the trainer that I didn't agree with thier infant training that they would come knocking at my door.

Both of the inspections were "random" but they came when I had a pretty good idea they were coming.

I've had one inspection because of my content on this site. I just pretty much lay in wait for it now.

So girlfriend just gear up. You might get lucky and it might not happen. Just get your jazz in line and if they come.... answer the door with "come on in... I've been expecting you".

Reply

Seriously.... In our area we can barely even get our licensors to come out before our license expires and we get kicked off the food program. Never had a random inspection, nor has anyone I know of.

Reply

Thanks for your advice Nan. I think I will just prepare myself but try not to worry about it.

Reply

I have to agree with Nan on this one...I've only had a couple of disgruntled parents call licensing with bogus complaints, when I was forced to term them. Once I even gave them the "heads up" to expect a call when DCD cussed me and my 5 year old daughter out on the morning I termed him. It didn't matter what he had done...I was guilty of all of his charges, until they did an investigation.
Just be prepared for them to come out and realize they are only doing their jobs. It's unfortunate that people will sometimes retaliate like this, but try not to let it stress you out.

Reply

I've never had a surprise inspection. I called my licensor once because of a client who was irate because I refused care due to non-payment and then even more so since I termed him on the spot. She told me they pretty much filter it out and only look into real accusations. Either way I am always ready for an inspection and have everything good to go since my food program person can show up at any time. Though I'm usually good at psychically determining when she's showing up.

Reply

The DCM gave her money to watch her kids for the next two-weeks and then the DC provider gave the DCM a two weeks notice. The money that was given to the DC provider would cover the two-weeks period and the DC provider was willing to take care of the kids during this time so why would she need to return the money if she has done exactly what is required of her?

The DCM was the one that decided not to take her kids to DC at all. The daycare provider didn't say that DC child couldn't finish off their two-week termination period. The mom decided to leave before the time was up and the contract says that clients have to pay for the final two-weeks regardless of whether or not they decide to take the kids so there's no way that the DC provider is required to give the money back.

She did hold up her end of the bargain. She gave the mom a 2 week notice of termination and was willing to take care of the kids during that time like the contract says. The mom didn't want to stay and that's her choice but she needs to pay for that time, it's in their contract and this policy is very common.

If you were my client and you thought this, you would be "expecting" wrong. If I did not want to take care of your child "even one more day" I would terminate your child immediately. Why would I give you a two-weeks notice then?

The two-weeks termination period is a common policy in family daycare homes. It makes sure that the parent has enough time to find another DC provider so that they aren't left having to miss work all of a sudden AND gives the DC provider time to find a client to take their space. It's a policy that protects BOTH people, not just the provider.

Reply

I want to move where you live....

Reply

I am guessing this is the case, too. Some parents tend to baby their children (especially if this is their only/first) more than they realise (it's natural!), whereas you the provider not only have more children to care for, but have "been around the block", so to speak, and know that giving a child everything they need right away/picking them up/etc just to avoid crying doesn't help child or provider. My friend runs a daycare and in all the cases of fussy baby, this is the case. Especially if mom tends to pick baby up at every little whimper at home. Children "test" all providers, at every age. My daughter gives her father and maternal grandmother (we are separated) attitude that would NEVER fly at home, only because he lets her and she can get what she wants from them if she throws a big enough fit (and she is five).

Reply