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  #1  
Old 10-26-2011, 02:52 PM
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Default Angry And Hurt Right Now

I have been on here for the last few weeks asking about daycare rates/policies etc.

I finally figured out what my new rates are going to be and decided to let the parents know a few months ahead of time so they may decide if they can stay or need to find something else.

My rate: I am changing from a daily to a weekly. My daily was extremely low for my area 20 for a full day and 10 for a half. I then made it worse by giving a sibling discount I only added $10 to the full day and $5 for a half for each additional child. I am changing to a daily rate of 25 per child per day so if I have two children 5 days a week I will be charging $250.

I told all parents I will get together and discuss any issues. I just received a txt from a dcm and this is what it said:

Hi ___. I just got that paper from ----- and looked it over. I have a few issues w/ it. I feel that it is extremely high for childcare. 50 a day is quite a bit more than me or ----- can afford. If we could come up w a better arrangement I would appreciate it. I realize this is how youre making a living and I have before also but I would never have thought about charging these rates. Please get back to me as soon as you can. thanks

I responded:
I understand if you have any issues but discussing them in txt isn't what I want to do. We will set up a date for both you and ----- to be here, and we can discuss it then. I hope we can work this out. I am free any night after the kids are gone so let me know what you guys want to do.

Her response:
That is what I was getting ahold of you for. I will talk to ---- and come up with a day and time we can all meet up. Thanks

Where to start as to why I am mad.

1.She was my childrens babysitter unregistered, she charged me 25 a day for my child. She sat them infront of the tv and the toy box and never took them outside and I provided the food. I read to her children, have helped potty train her daughter feed and provide the food, give them outside time every day, and we do arts and crafts.

2. When I first enrolled her I filled out paper work to help her get assistance to pay for child care which she never turned in because her ex refused to falsify the information he had to fill out so she wouldn't get as much.

3. This txt was not her trying to set up a date this was to attack me via txt message and let me know shes not happy. I had already spoken to her about setting up the date yesterday over the phone and told her ex the same. She wrote this to give me a piece of her mind.

If she thinks this is going to get her a lower rate she is wrong. Her children are here 4- 10 hr days in the summer and I want to charge her 200 the going weekly rate for her children ages 3 and 6 is 135 and 130 I am being more then fair. I have even given a school year rate of 100 for the 3 year old and am holding the 6 yr olds spot and will only charge a $25 fee for holidays and days off of school.

I am sorry this is so long I just needed to get this out. I am shaking I am so upset, I knew I would meet opposition but this txt was uncalled for. We will sit we will talk I will explain how I came to my decision what I am doing with the children and if they still don't feel I am worth it. I have two kids whose parents do think I am worth it lined up.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:57 PM
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I am sorry hun.

Hopefully she will be the only one acting like that.

Sending good vibes.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:02 PM
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Don't give into her at all!! She will push and push... trust me. At your meeting if things get heated simply tell her this is your business and your way of living and she doesn't need to stay your client if she is not happy. They are always floored when you basically tell them this is the way it is or there is the door.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:22 PM
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Do you have access at all to the going rate for child care providers in your area? If so, copy it down and refer to it when talking to her about your "worth" in regards to your weekly rate.

I would be really offended if I were you too! Stand your ground and if she bails on you, then advertise for a family that does appreciate all you do for their children. Don't sell yourself short because one parent doesn't want to pay for high quality child care.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:22 PM
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Repeat after me until you feel confident saying it to them:

I understand your position, this is what I need to charge.

I understand this is a price increase, this is what I need to charge.

I understand you don't want to pay this rate, this is what I need to charge.

Changing prices and policies on existing parents is so hard. Don't be surprised if they start listing the things you've bought that you could have done without, thus kept their price lower. btdt

Good luck.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:26 PM
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((((((((HUGS))))))))

This is why I dislike the texting option. It complicates things.

I just switched over from an hourly rate to a weekly, and added some rather strict policies that I plan to stick to. But... I am only making it apply to all new families because the 2 I have will probably flee to the mountains if I try switching them over and I don't want to lose them. It isn't easy to get enrollments around here as it is. Sigh.

So I feel your pain.

At least you were brave enough to apply your new rates to the current dcf's! I am too chicken to do it.

Stand firm and remember we're all here rooting for you. Your time and EFFORT (key word here) is worth what you're charging, and you both know it. She just doesn't want to admit it!!!
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2011, 03:33 PM
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She just wants cheap day care. It's not very complicated and you shouldn't take it personally. It doesn't have anything to do with you or what you are worth.

She's been getting a really super low rate and that's what she wants. She will most likely leave you when she finds another low paying deal. She will just seek out someone who is new and making the same mistake with low priced base care and markedly lower discount for sibs.

As hard as it is to think of it this way you have to understand that your low discounted rate IS a big part of child care today. It's part of the economy of child care.

Her kids will move on to the next person who is offering cheap until that person raises rates. Once she raises rates they will move to the next. It's NOT about what the going rate is... it's about finding the provider that offers care for WAY less than the going rate. To her it doesn't matter if a thousand providers charge 130... and one charges 100. She doesn't care about the other thousand. She just cares about the one that charges 100.

Just be super polite to her and tell her this is your new rate. She will most likely take you up on your services until the day the rates go up. If she has to pay the "going rate" you can be SURE she won't pay it to you. If she's going to pay that much more for care she's going to want some special special for it.

You are coming from a place where you believe what you are offering is a REALLY fair deal. She ONLY looks at the actual number of dollars MORE she has to pay for what she's getting now. It's not about FAIR or your good care. She just wants the cheap. She doesn't care HOW you got to what is fair or what others are charging. She only wants to know how much more for her and can she talk you completely out of it or just do a few dollars more a week.

Just buckle up and be understanding when she says no or tries to negotiate. She already knows your good care so don't defend the raise with that. It's not personal and it's NOT convinceable... you can't convince her to pay more. She's fine with what she's paying now OR she may even believe what she does now is too much.

Lastly, I encourage you to never give rate info so far in advance. One month is plenty of notice.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quality daycare is not cheap or easy! No one on the outside seems to understand this
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmom View Post
Repeat after me until you feel confident saying it to them:

I understand your position, this is what I need to charge.

I understand this is a price increase, this is what I need to charge.

I understand you don't want to pay this rate, this is what I need to charge.

Changing prices and policies on existing parents is so hard. Don't be surprised if they start listing the things you've bought that you could have done without, thus kept their price lower. btdt

Good luck.
Grandma you rule

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Old 10-26-2011, 03:44 PM
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I feel for you. Money always seems to be cause for problems for us. Stay true to your self. You know what your worth and a increase should not be a surprise. Specially if you haven't done one in a yr or so with your kids. The cost of living is going up each yr. That is why biz give one a yr increases in pay. Not all do but your your own boss you should be able to grant a increase 1 a yr like the rest of the working force. What I would do is call diff. daycares around you and get rates and facilities. Put it all on paper for mom and dad. Put it in front of them and tell them you are well with in your right to increase. Your not making a outrageous increase to your rate. They where used to getting a discount and now your not doing them anymore. I also would put in front of them how much it cost to do daycare and what their money pays for. If they want to argue money then tell them they could provide there own snacks, drinks and breakfast/lunch to help out with the cost. If your on the food program that won't help but you know where i am going at. My thing is that if the money is the problem there really going to have a hard time going somewhere else and being able to find care for less then what your new rates are. Not many people are doing discounts now.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:57 PM
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You are all so wonderful. I needed to read these comments. My husband and I discussed this and I was ready to bend and offer $20 a day per child just to try to appease her but after thinking about it I said NO. I do have the market rates and will use them to show the parents the average rates not that I think it will matter. I think she was txting me trying to talk me out of it because she is the one who is opposed not her ex and when we sit down I think there maybe a difference of opinion.

I will be polite and smile at her and tell her my rates and let her know that is the bottom line take it or leave it. At the end of the day I may be 2 dck's less but have that much stronger of a backbone. Thanks again everyone.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:06 PM
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I am with grandma on this...STAND TALL! STAND FIRM!

Trust me we all make mistakes. The ones that want to get everything and give nothing are the ones that are worth losing anyways.... DONT beat yourself up.

HUGS to you!!! now take a deep breath
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:06 PM
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So they were paying $200 a week and its 50 hours a week?! That is $2 an hour per kid. And you want to raise to $250 a week and still 50 hours? that is still only $2.50 an hour. She is lucky that you are that nice!!!!

Maybe add in the per hour thing at the meeting! good luck! Keep your backbone, you are worth it!
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:15 PM
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No they are currently paying a daily rate of 20 per full day for one child 30 per full day for 2 children or 10 per half day for one child and 15 per half day for 2 children. I am going to charge them 200 a week for a 40 hr week some times more so its 2.50 per hour per child. Not that much when you break it down. Thats for the summer. The school year rate will be $100 a week for the 3 yr old and I will only charge them 25 for the days the 6 yr old is here. Granted I know the 3 yr old is here less hours during the school year but I had to set a rate and $25 a day it is.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:20 PM
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I totally agree with the above posts. As she even stated...this is YOUR business. Lay down the rules and let her hit the door if she is unwilling to abide by them. : )
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:51 PM
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My husband gave me a wake up call that I didnt want to hear but I knew he was right whne he said "Daycare parents want cheap and reliable. Other than that they dont care of you sit them in front of the tv and feed them gummy bears all day" So sad, yet so true
Dont take it personal its just the nature of the biz. It was so hard for me at first to accept this. I just had to learn that I am giving good care for my own self esteem and for the children's sake.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:10 PM
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I just had mom number 2 call me about rates. I think I am just at my limits for what I can handle. I am beginning to think I am just not cut out for this. You all seem so together and sure of yourselves. I am going to bed and hoping tomorrow is a little better then today.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awestbrook713 View Post
I just had mom number 2 call me about rates. I think I am just at my limits for what I can handle. I am beginning to think I am just not cut out for this. You all seem so together and sure of yourselves. I am going to bed and hoping tomorrow is a little better then today.
I have only raised my rates once with existing clients for just this reason. Sometimes it's been hard, because I have had families for a number years and I have added the number of paid holidays I get or changed my hours to help compensate me.

It's tough for people to accept paying more...even though the cost of doing business increases and it is truly justified. Years ago, an agency that I use gave me a print out of what the lowest to highest rates were in my area and I realized my rates were way low...I hadn't raised them in awhile. I showed this to my current families and they all accepted the increase w/o any problems, because they realized what a great deal they'd been getting!

Wishing you the best of luck! They have been getting a crazy cheap deal and you deserve to get paid more!
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:17 AM
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I have added in to my contract that I will review & adjust the weekly rates each October to reflect the rise in costs of living each year. So, I will notify the parents in October of the new rate increase if any, and then it takes effect in January of the new year. By adding this wording in your contract, parents will at least have an idea that it is coming and can plan for it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:36 AM
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i forget what part of NY you are in, but i am in NY too. i just received the new market rate summary (for the whole state), so if you need a copy, i can email it to you.

i would stand your ground. some may leave, and that may be hard financially at first, but then you can attract clients who care about quality and will respect you more.

a wise man (my FIL) once told me "never charge less then you deserve for the sake of good exposure. in the end, all you will attract is people who don't respect you for what you are truly worth."
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:35 AM
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Mandy_jane: I have added into my contract for 2012 that I reserve the right to raise my rates once a year. I do not plan on raising my rates after this one for quite a while.

I'm from upstate melskids and that would be wonderful if you could email that to me. I think I have the new rates but I could be wrong. I would like as much information as possible.
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:35 AM
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I can deff see how the dcm is up set. your going from 150 for two kids full day to 250 for two chilsren. That is a big price diff for familys. I would start out slow then move up. good luck
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:10 AM
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200 not 250 they are only here 4 days a week. It is a big difference and I understand but I was not being fair to myself with the rates I was charging. I am giving them 2 months to decide and if they don't stay I will understand but I also know I will find families willing to pay what I am asking and they may be much better fits.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by awestbrook713 View Post
You all seem so together and sure of yourselves. I am going to bed and hoping tomorrow is a little better then today.
I don't think anyone came into this field that way.

The only reason I got to that point is because I was stepped on so many times that a decision had to be made... Close or Get Tough Skin. I started with unicorns, lolipops and stardust in my eyes...

I also am hoping today will be a better day for you.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by awestbrook713 View Post
200 not 250 they are only here 4 days a week. It is a big difference and I understand but I was not being fair to myself with the rates I was charging. I am giving them 2 months to decide and if they don't stay I will understand but I also know I will find families willing to pay what I am asking and they may be much better fits.
I understand from a dc poiont of view but not as a parent. I charge the same as you and would love to raise my rates but I am not register because I only have two full timers and the rest brfore and after school children so all my parents would leave I which I had the guts to raise mine.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:18 AM
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I was the parent paying the daycare provider for a while and I would be upset to but this is my business and there are parents out there willing to pay these rates. I am still lower then the average and don't think my rates are unfair at all.

The more I think about this parent being upset the more I think how if they leave it may be best for everyone. I have gone through so much with this family, fighting to get paid, fleas (which I may have to get an exterminator if what I have done personally doesn't get rid of them), child messing on my floor daily until I said pull ups or she is not allowed here, parents bringing kids unannounced at 545 am, cancelling last minute constantly, picking up early constantly. Its just coming clear it isn't worth it. I love these kids but can't stand the parents if that makes sense.

The second mom that called is dependable and I am willing to work with.

I guess being a daycare provider just means picking and choosing your battles and I have choosen mine. I love reading all of your posts for experience I hope one day I am as brave and bold as all of you that have been doing this for a long time.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:06 AM
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I should add to my previous post that I did bring alot of boldness with me from my previous job as a nurse. I learned that "sweetness" wasnt doing my patients any favors if they couldnt hear the message behind the sweetness KWIM? Sometimes boldness is all some people are able to understand.
"Kindness" is great. "Niceness" doesnt do any one any favors not even the people you are being nice too. Because sometimes your firmness is what they need to face to mature a bit.
Think of it this way, this is just 1 family out of your whole group. Do you want to close your doors to all the nice families because this family needs a discount? Is this family worth closing over? Because thats what will happen if you cant make enough $ to make it worth your while KWIM?
Hope that doesnt sound harsh. My dh will tell you that I am too nice (to everyone but him!) So sometimes these things I say to you I have to say to myself when I change a policy.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
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200 not 250 they are only here 4 days a week. It is a big difference and I understand but I was not being fair to myself with the rates I was charging. I am giving them 2 months to decide and if they don't stay I will understand but I also know I will find families willing to pay what I am asking and they may be much better fits.


If I was you I would charge just a WEEKLY FLAT RATE therefore no confusion you are giving up to much income by doing day rates.

My WEEKLY rate is
125 a week for ages 6 weeks til age 5 and in school I dont do school age.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:26 AM
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That is what I am trying to do but the parents don't want to have to pay that much if there child only ends up here some of the days. They feel they are paying for something they aren't getting but what they don't understand is they are paying for there childs spot. Parents just don't get it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:50 AM
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lets see if this works......


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...wCbavAiQ&pli=1
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:22 AM
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I didn't read all the responses, but if you know that you are cheaper than most daycares, let her walk, she'll want to come back, or be too proud to call you and say you're right.

Then she'll end up paying more somewhere else.

If you are equal with every other daycare in charges, she will see that you've been nice to undercharge her all this time as well as they will likely not be so accomodating to the "special" as nanny usually puts it. She won't receive the discounts for the 6 yr old, etc.


I would also say that by the tone of the text, or at least what I hear, she is used to the "special" and fully expects you to bend over backwards for her again.

Hold firm, don't give in, and don't give her the special treatment, not even one ounce

Last edited by dEHmom; 10-27-2011 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:36 AM
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melskids I clicked on link but it just brings me to google sign in.

DEHmom your right she is, I am so nervous about this sit down with her and the dad, she is the type of person I wouldn't put it past her to blow up on me when she doesn't get her way which I will then just show her the door and not have to deal with the family anymore.

As far as today being a better day I want to announce it is 10 times better. Just had another parent tell me she is staying with me, my rates are fair and I am a good person and awesome babysitter(daycare provider lol) I needed this boost of confidence and I was really worried about losing this family because they are so dependable and the kids are great!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:41 AM
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melskids I clicked on link but it just brings me to google sign in.

DEHmom your right she is, I am so nervous about this sit down with her and the dad, she is the type of person I wouldn't put it past her to blow up on me when she doesn't get her way which I will then just show her the door and not have to deal with the family anymore.

As far as today being a better day I want to announce it is 10 times better. Just had another parent tell me she is staying with me, my rates are fair and I am a good person and awesome babysitter(daycare provider lol) I needed this boost of confidence and I was really worried about losing this family because they are so dependable and the kids are great!!
glad to hear that things are working out.

Just remember, keep your cool, no finger pointing, name calling, or even bringing up the past. She remembers what she charged you, so don't bother bringing that up. Just hold your head high, bite your tongue, only say what you need to say and make sure you remain professional. Then they will walk away, storm away, name call and all that, then they will calm down and realize how much of a jerk they were being and they will feel like ****. And will respect you more in the end. Whether they admit it or not.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:46 AM
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That is what I am trying to do but the parents don't want to have to pay that much if there child only ends up here some of the days. They feel they are paying for something they aren't getting but what they don't understand is they are paying for there childs spot. Parents just don't get it.
From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:52 AM
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From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
Daycare is also the one service that parents pay for that they feel they have the most say in but pay the least for!

The hourly wage paid to childcare providers is so low that we are forced to charge for spaces, regardless of whether parents use them or not.

If you want to pay at least minimum wage for the 3 days you use then I would gladly only charge you for those 3 days.

Oh and FWIW, not sure about auto repair shops where you live but where I live auto mechanics charge by the hour too......even if it only takes 20 minutes to do the job, the rate is still hourly. Oil change places charge by the job.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:55 AM
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Is the mechanic limited to spots he has by the state? No if I don't show he takes the next guy that walks through the door needing an oil change. He doesn't have the same repeat clients every day, he doesn't have to worry about going over numbers.

I may be here to watch your children but I am not here to be taken advantage of. If your job decided they need you one day and not the next how would you feel about not getting paid because they decided they don't need you and you have no say over the matter.

I am not here to get defensive but why are we not valued like we should be when we are responsible for the most valuable things in our lives children?
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:56 AM
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From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
You pay for 30 days (or 31 days) of cable even if you only watch your TV 20 of those days.

You pay for 30/31 days of water even if you go on vacation for 14 of those days.

If you need daycare the same 3 days, and only those three days each week, most people will charge for those three days--and try to fill the other two with another child. If you need 3 days per week, but they VARY (one week it's MWF, the next it's T,TH,F, etc), then the provider has the right to charge for all 5 days, because they can't predict WHICH 3 days you will need, and therefore can't fill the other two days...do you see?

(and FTR, you pay a mechanic a flat rate for an oil change...whether it takes 10 minutes or 55 minutes...so, the same principle on which daycares charge).
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:56 AM
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From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
In childcare we are limited to the number of children that we can keep. If you want to bring your child to a provider 3 days a week but only want to pay for your 3 days then your provider needs to find someone that can use the other 2 days of the week. That is not very easy to do. I charge a flat weekly rate, whether the child is here or not and none of my parents complain about it. They understand that if they only worked Monday-Wednesday that it would be almost impossible for me to find another child to fill in Thursday and Friday. So they pay for the spot, and are allowed to bring their children any or all days that week. I'm sorry that it's hard for some parents to understand, but most providers that I know charge this way.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:58 AM
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Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
Minimum wage is $7.25hr.

$7.25 x 30 hours (3 days) = $217.50

More than TWICE what I get for 5 days. Full-Time

IMHO, Your point has NO validity.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:59 AM
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I'm totally confused on what hours the children the children are there.

It looks like they are 3 years old and 6 years old.
I can see the 3 year old being there all day but wouldn't the 6 year old be in school? Wouldn't you charge them a school age rate through the school year? It sounds like they are only there full-time in the summer so why the big changes 8 months ahead of time? I would have done it much closer to the summer.

Maybe do a 3,4 and 5 day rate. Alot of providers in my area do that because parents really don't want to pay for a whole week if they are only using 3 days. I would have everyone fill out a schedule form and let them know that the days they put down are the days they will be charged for BUT if they aren't putting down a full week don't expect there to be room for their child if they were to need care on another day other than what they put down. That is what I do for my parents.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:03 AM
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From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
We understand that, AND the mechanic thing has already been touched on so I won't go there. It wasn't a great example.

IF you want drop in/casual care, some or most daycare will offer that, but you're taking a chance of not having care on the days you need. IF you want 3 days a week, you need to find a childcare center/home that offers that for you.

When you enroll in daycare, you are taking a spot whether you use it or not. More daycares would probably be willing to do drop in care if we weren't limited on numbers. But if every daycare could do this, I guarantee you the rates would double. For a casual I had, because some weeks she came 1 or 2 days, other weeks she came no days, her rate was 40/day. Normally my average rate is about 21/day. She didn't pay as much for full time, but she paid nearly a full time rate when she was here 3 days a week. If mom was sick one day, she brought her a different day. But mom was fully aware that if I had interesting in a full time spot, she would have to bump up to full time, or lose her spot.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:04 AM
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Country_kids: 3 yr old here 4 days a week during school year weekly rate is $100. I'm not charging for the 6 yr old during the school year unless she is here on holidays/school closings.

They will both be here in the summer 4- 10 hr days and the weekly rate will be $200 for the both of them.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:09 AM
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Country_kids: 3 yr old here 4 days a week during school year weekly rate is $100. I'm not charging for the 6 yr old during the school year unless she is here on holidays/school closings.

They will both be here in the summer 4- 10 hr days and the weekly rate will be $200 for the both of them.
I think you're being very fair. If mom gives you trouble about it, like you said, you may be better off without them anyway. Good luck to you. I know its not easy having these "talks" with parents. I do not like confrontation so these are hard for me too but things like this have to be done. Let us know how it turns out.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:09 AM
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if this doesnt work, PM me your email and I'll try to figure out how to email it to you...i'm not always very computer literate...lol

012.jpg

Last edited by Michael; 10-27-2011 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:11 AM
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Minimum wage is $7.25hr.

$7.25 x 30 hours (3 days) = $217.50

More than TWICE what I get for 5 days. Full-Time

IMHO, Your point has NO validity.
wow, that's low minimum wage!

here minimum wage is 10.00 per hour!!!!! I average about 2.10/hr on a normal day. Then factor in my expenses such as food, crafts, water, hydro, etc. I get to write off a portion of my bills, but when you have 4 or 8 or 12 kids flushing toilets, that's a minimum of 1 flush every half hour.

So even a single mom working at mcdonalds here makes 5 times what I do. I realize that childcare is a big chunk out of a paycheque, but when you consider what you make per hour, and what I make per hour, I don't understand why it's such a big fuss.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:13 AM
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Small steps: Thanks, not sure when we are meeting still waiting for that detail. I'm supposed to have one of the girls today so maybe at pick up mom or dad will tell me. I will definately let you know how it goes.

Melskids: thanks printed it off and looks good!
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:18 AM
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wow, that's low minimum wage!

here minimum wage is 10.00 per hour!!!!! I average about 2.10/hr on a normal day. Then factor in my expenses such as food, crafts, water, hydro, etc. I get to write off a portion of my bills, but when you have 4 or 8 or 12 kids flushing toilets, that's a minimum of 1 flush every half hour.

So even a single mom working at mcdonalds here makes 5 times what I do. I realize that childcare is a big chunk out of a paycheque, but when you consider what you make per hour, and what I make per hour, I don't understand why it's such a big fuss.
I agree...

I make enough to break even on my half of the household bills, put $200 in my IRA each month, and be home with my kids.

Being home with my kids IS my pay, IMHO.

I am not making a fortune, here.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:24 AM
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Is there anywhere in the US that minimum wage is $10.00 an hour? I know ours is going to like 8.75 an hour and everyone is gripping about it because usually minumum wages are the only ones who seem to be getting raises anymore. It is taking me more and more children to make minimum wage but I can still only have 6!
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:47 AM
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Daycare is also the one service that parents pay for that they feel they have the most say in but pay the least for!

The hourly wage paid to childcare providers is so low that we are forced to charge for spaces, regardless of whether parents use them or not.

If you want to pay at least minimum wage for the 3 days you use then I would gladly only charge you for those 3 days.

Oh and FWIW, not sure about auto repair shops where you live but where I live auto mechanics charge by the hour too......even if it only takes 20 minutes to do the job, the rate is still hourly. Oil change places charge by the job.
Why should you get minimum wage from me when you also care for other kids?

Right, oil changes are charged by the job...my point was would you like it if they charged for a whole hour of work when it only takes them 20 min?
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:53 AM
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Why should you get minimum wage from me when you also care for other kids?

Right, oil changes are charged by the job...my point was would you like it if they charged for a whole hour of work when it only takes them 20 min?
The point is that if she can't fill her spots on ALL the days of the week then she won't be getting minimum wage even WITH the other children's fees.

Your point is moot because the guy who changes oil isn't limited to 5 oil changes per day. I am limited to 5 children per day. I have a parttimer right now who comes 3 days a week. It's the same three days every week so I charge only for those 3 days, as I can fill the other two days with drop-ins or someone who permanently needs those two remaining days. I know that he will never be here on those 2 days so I am free to fill them. However, if he came on different days every week then I would charge for every potential day he could come so that my income doesn't suffer for not being able to fill that spot on his 'off' days.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:53 AM
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Why should you get minimum wage from me when you also care for other kids?
I knew that was coming.

What does the money paid to me by other clients have to do with you?

I also have a part time job...does that mean they should get to pay me less?

I work 70 hours a week. Of course I should make more that you at 40.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:55 AM
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They still charge for the hour........
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:56 AM
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You pay for 30 days (or 31 days) of cable even if you only watch your TV 20 of those days.

You pay for 30/31 days of water even if you go on vacation for 14 of those days.

If you need daycare the same 3 days, and only those three days each week, most people will charge for those three days--and try to fill the other two with another child. If you need 3 days per week, but they VARY (one week it's MWF, the next it's T,TH,F, etc), then the provider has the right to charge for all 5 days, because they can't predict WHICH 3 days you will need, and therefore can't fill the other two days...do you see?

(and FTR, you pay a mechanic a flat rate for an oil change...whether it takes 10 minutes or 55 minutes...so, the same principle on which daycares charge).
I pay for the water I use. If I go on vacation for 2 weeks, my water bill is less. If I water my garden, my bill is more. It would be great if the water bill was a flat fee. Cable is a subscription, just like a magazine. Daycare isn't a subscription.

I do get the rotating thing. I could see paying the weekly rate for a rotating schedule, as long as my spot is available whenever I need it. I was referring to only needing a specific 3 days that are the same all the time. I don't see where I should have to pay for the other 2 days then.

I know the oil change is a flat rate. My point was that you would not like it if that flat rate was based on his hourly rate if you knew it only takes 20 min to do the job. ie. If he charges $60 an hour, you wouldn't want to pay $60 for an oil change when it only takes him 20 min. You would want to pay the $20 that it's worth.
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:57 AM
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What a way to wake up. entertainment for the day already!!!

If only parents really knew what the break down was and that after all overhead is paid per child, I am making about $2.00-$3.00 an hour per child if that... I can only have 6 kids per my state LIC. and I have my own. So that means the most that I could make is $15.00 an hour....... For a TON of libality!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:59 AM
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Why should you get minimum wage from me when you also care for other kids?
Because I am also working long hours, dealing with varying schedules, get no 15 minute breaks, or 1/2 hour lunches. You also do not pay me vacation time, sick time or give me standard yearly cost of living increases.

Also because I spend a good part of my day parenting the parent as well as the child. I go above and beyond a regular 40 hour work week to guarantee you that your child is safe and loved and nurtured AND educated while in my care. Because I take the time to snuggle with her, play with her and help her learn about the world around her.

But mostly because I do the least respected profession (yet most important after parenting) in the world and do it for the least amount of pay.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:00 AM
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Why should you get minimum wage from me when you also care for other kids?

Right, oil changes are charged by the job...my point was would you like it if they charged for a whole hour of work when it only takes them 20 min?
I'm pretty sure that their rates are scaled to account for the number they can get done in an hour, and also take into account the cost of supplies (oil, etc) over and ABOVE what they "want" to get paid.

When I'm full (which I'm not) I make right around min wage per hour...assuming a 40 hour work week which mine is not--I work about 10 hr/day, 6 days/week and that doesn't count cleaning and planning done during off hours. First, we have to pay taxes--the same as you AND THEN SOME because we are self-employed--we pay the portion of the employer AS WELL AS the employee; we personally out of our income pay about double the taxes you do. But then we take out the cost of supplies, extra utilities, licensing fees, and the other costs associated with running a daycare. THEN we still have to pay all the same bills you do--the ones for our FAMILY not our JOB. Running a daycare is NOT a way to get rich, not in the slightest. I haven't done the math on what I "really" make...and I don't WANT to do the math.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:04 AM
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What a way to wake up. entertainment for the day already!!!

If only parents really knew what the break down was and that after all overhead is paid per child, I am making about $2.00-$3.00 an hour per child if that... I can only have 6 kids per my state LIC. and I have my own. So that means the most that I could make is $15.00 an hour....... For a TON of libality!!
Entertainment indeed! LOL I'd love to make $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids. LOL
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:05 AM
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I pay for the water I use. If I go on vacation for 2 weeks, my water bill is less. If I water my garden, my bill is more. It would be great if the water bill was a flat fee. Cable is a subscription, just like a magazine. Daycare isn't a subscription.

I do get the rotating thing. I could see paying the weekly rate for a rotating schedule, as long as my spot is available whenever I need it. I was referring to only needing a specific 3 days that are the same all the time. I don't see where I should have to pay for the other 2 days then.
I know the oil change is a flat rate. My point was that you would not like it if that flat rate was based on his hourly rate if you knew it only takes 20 min to do the job. ie. If he charges $60 an hour, you wouldn't want to pay $60 for an oil change when it only takes him 20 min. You would want to pay the $20 that it's worth.
I don't charge parents for the extra days IF they have a set 3 day a week schedule. If they have a rotating schedule and need access to the entire week just to accommodate their 3 days each week, then they have to pay for the whole week. In that situation, paying for the whole week gives them access to the whole week.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:05 AM
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Entertainment indeed! LOL I'd love to make $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids. LOL


seriously????
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:06 AM
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One year I remember after expenses and everything that they do with your taxes my final taxable amount for the year came out to like $1,000. I looked at my husband and said thats all I made? He explained everything out but still I thought after all my hard work that is all I'm worth? I know we get all the deductions and such but still it was a real eye opener.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:12 AM
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Entertainment indeed! LOL I'd love to make $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids. LOL
I wish I could stay home and play with kids, too!!!

But with all the teaching, cleaning, diaper changing, supervising, cooking, cleaning, record keeping, cleaning, and supervising, I don't have time to play. My 4 year old daughter is in TEARS every day because she wants to play with me, and I don't have time. I WORK.

Get off your high horse; this is a job, not a game.

Done now...I have to go get lunch, change diapers, soothe tears, wipe noses, figure out why the tears were happening, get kids down for naps, feed a baby, change the baby's diaper, clean up from lunch, snuggle the baby who's teething, give the nappers the stink eye because they're being loud, clean up the mess in the bathroom, snuggle the baby again, change the baby again, clean up the pee accident in the naproom, get the nappers back to sleep AGAIN, conduct a fire drill, hug my 4 yo who is lonely because she wants to play, get snack ready, maybe grab my own lunch, maybe get to pee, then the nappers are up and it's snack time, everyone needs to go to the bathroom/diapers changed, the baby needs to eat again, someone needs a squabble settled...
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:13 AM
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I as the original poster never said I was charging for the other days they were not here. I gave all the parents a form to fill out what days they need each week and figured out the weekly rate based on the days there. Will they have to pay for the days they signed up for if the child doesn't come 1 of the 4 days they said they need me yes but why shouldn't they since that is there spot and DARN WELL will be there for them to use as you so nicely put it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:13 AM
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Entertainment indeed! LOL I'd love to make $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids. LOL
Who makes $15/hour??? I don't.

I have 4 kids in my daycare and still make only a bit more than $5/hour once you account for taxes, groceries, craft supplies, wipes, cleaning supplies, extra toilet paper, extra utilities, ect.
I also don't play; I facilitate play. Around here the KIDS are the ones who play. I cook. I clean. I set up play stations. I set up and guide crafting. I clean. I wipe noses. I change diapers. I clean up pee & poop. I clean some more. I read stories. I teach music.

Show me where I can earn $15/hour to stay home and play with kids!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:14 AM
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seriously????
Yes...where I'm from $15 is a lot of money and you'd need a college education to get it. A teacher in my state averages that. A teachers' aide gets under $8 an hour, unless she's a former teacher and then she might get $10 for experience. If you charged me minimum wage to watch my child, I wouldn't be bringing home enough to cover the gas to get to your house. This is why I wouldn't want to pay for days I don't use. I can't afford to. So yes, I'd LOVE to get $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:17 AM
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I wish I could stay home and play with kids, too!!!

But with all the teaching, cleaning, diaper changing, supervising, cooking, cleaning, record keeping, cleaning, and supervising, I don't have time to play. My 4 year old daughter is in TEARS every day because she wants to play with me, and I don't have time. I WORK.

Get off your high horse; this is a job, not a game.

Done now...I have to go get lunch, change diapers, soothe tears, wipe noses, figure out why the tears were happening, get kids down for naps, feed a baby, change the baby's diaper, clean up from lunch, snuggle the baby who's teething, give the nappers the stink eye because they're being loud, clean up the mess in the bathroom, snuggle the baby again, change the baby again, clean up the pee accident in the naproom, get the nappers back to sleep AGAIN, conduct a fire drill, hug my 4 yo who is lonely because she wants to play, get snack ready, maybe grab my own lunch, maybe get to pee, then the nappers are up and it's snack time, everyone needs to go to the bathroom/diapers changed, the baby needs to eat again, someone needs a squabble settled...
You'd have more time for all of that if you weren't online checking to see what I'll say next! Do your parents know this is what you do instead of play with their children?
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:19 AM
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Yes...where I'm from $15 is a lot of money and you'd need a college education to get it. A teacher in my state averages that. A teachers' aide gets under $8 an hour, unless she's a former teacher and then she might get $10 for experience. If you charged me minimum wage to watch my child, I wouldn't be bringing home enough to cover the gas to get to your house. This is why I wouldn't want to pay for days I don't use. I can't afford to. So yes, I'd LOVE to get $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids.
I NEVER said $15 wasn't a lot of money. It is. FWIW~ I am college educated. I hold 2 degrees as a matter of fact and I still DO NOT play all day!!

I was merely being sarcastic about each family paying me minimum wage, the point I was trying to make was child care providers are paid VERY little for ALL they do during the day,week, and year in order to care for your child. There is little respect from the parent and one would think that the person caring for your child would be the one person you would be bending over backwards to please. Most people tip their servers without thinking twice about whether the service was actually good or not simply because servers make less than minimum wage. Odd thought process if you ask me.

However, as I previously stated.....I do NOT charge for the days you do not use IF your schedule is set each week. But if you want me at your beck and call, then pay for it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:30 AM
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You'd have more time for all of that if you weren't online checking to see what I'll say next! Do your parents know this is what you do instead of play with their children?
Actually I'm watching the kids eat three feet away from me while I feed the baby in my lap, update the daycare Facebook page with news from the morning, and do some curriculum planning for next month. I check, read, and type here while I wait for other pages to load.

What are you doing? I bet your employer doesn't know they're paying you to harass us!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:34 AM
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I didn't have time to read all the responses but she's your business client so keep emotions out of it. Charge her the rate and leave it at that. Why is there even any room for discussion? You KNOW they want a lower rate, so the discussion will only end up with you lowering your rates.

Be professional, be blunt and let them deal with it. You shouldn't have to defend what you're worth IMO
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:35 AM
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I could see paying the weekly rate for a rotating schedule, as long as my spot is available whenever I need it.
I agree 100% with that statement. That is the whole point of slots.

Consistency for the kids AND the parents.

The kids here have their own "stuff". I buy them their own beds, pillows, blankets, etc. upon enrollment.

Consistency and being PART of our group is invaluable for them.

I keep 6 children from birth to 4.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. It means alot. Sorry I got so defensive (I think? I can't tell which "unregistered" is which. ) I just work really hard at this and some months I don't even make my bills for buying daycare supplies.

As far as computer time, it is in the playroom and the kids are playing with EACH OTHER as is developmentally necessary. I see all, hear all and guide when an opportunity presents itself. Free play is after lunch.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:37 AM
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So yes, I'd LOVE to get $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids.
There are plenty of childcare providers that charge daily and hourly so for you this is a great way to go. Some providers prefer to charge this way, it's called drop-in, and that's fine. In my area when you charge daily or hourly you pay more per hour then if you had a flat weekly rate.

I have clients that come the same 4 days a week and prefer to pay my drop-in rates so that if they don't come all 4 days (like this week they are only coming 3 days) they don't pay for the extra one day. However they pay me $40 a day and end up paying me $160 a week for four days. My FT clients come 5 days a week and pay $160 for that week too. The difference is that my FT client has a guaranteed spot, my drop-in client doesn't. I give the clients that pay me a weekly rate a deal because it's regular and dependable income. Drop-ins are not. Whether my clients come or not I still have to pay my bills.

Please keep in mind that childcare is a service that a parent pays for. A childcare provider can charge as she wishes and a parent decides whether or not they want to pay the rate and follow the guidelines that the provider sets. The water bill example was a bad example to compare childcare services to. Cable was not. Cable is a service that you sign up for and pay for monthly whether you use it or not. So is a gym membership. You pay monthly and even if you don't go 1 day out of the month you still have to pay for that whole month. Gyms also offer a daily rate if you don't want to use it frequently.

The thing here is that childcare providers are exactly that, childcare "providers". We do provide a service, we provide childcare. I don't see why that's so hard to understand. We as business owners have the ability to set our prices and set our rules, you as a parent have the freedom and ability to choose which provider's service you wish to use. If you prefer to go to the one that only charges daily then great. If the OP decides to charge a flat weekly rate or not is also great. That's the beauty of freedom of choice.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:39 AM
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Yes...where I'm from $15 is a lot of money and you'd need a college education to get it. A teacher in my state averages that. A teachers' aide gets under $8 an hour, unless she's a former teacher and then she might get $10 for experience. If you charged me minimum wage to watch my child, I wouldn't be bringing home enough to cover the gas to get to your house. This is why I wouldn't want to pay for days I don't use. I can't afford to. So yes, I'd LOVE to get $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids.
Then get a new job? Why does the burden of your low paying job weigh on my shoulders? Find another caregiver with lower rates who likely doesn't provide quality care for kids. Lobby government to make universal childcare FREE for all families. Lobby government for tax breaks for childcare providers, or for you. Start your own daycare. I don't run a charity!!

Your last sentence really shows your attitude towards childcare providers and it's pretty sad. If you value my job as me "playing all day" then you clearly have not been a 'real' parent.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:51 AM
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Lobby government to make universal childcare FREE for all families.
Ooo...Yeah. PLEASE do that.

I'd LOVE to be a federal employee.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:27 AM
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So yes, I'd LOVE to get $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids.
WOW! Okie Dokie.... So if you think this is such a great paying gravy job w/only fun and games....why not just do it yourself and stop complaining about how we choose to run our businesses! That is the joy and benefit of being self employed!

I love my job and could never have been successful and kept my sanity if I didn't! It can be a stressful and thankless job at times and my reward is in knowing that I'm making a positive difference in the life of a child...not in the monetary worth this job gives me!

I have many p/t families and they are scheduled to come 2 or 3 days a week on specific days. I am paid for those days, regardless of whether the child comes, due to illness or vacation, because that spot is being held for that individual. I also have some drop in families and if I have a spot open, they are able to use it. However, there is no guarantee I will have availability.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:33 AM
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If you pay for each day, then you can come whenever you want. If you pay for Monday, Thursday and Friday each week, those days will be available. Lets say you get asked to work Tuesday at your job. DO NOT expect the "slot" to be open since you CHOOSE to not pay for fulltime slot. You can ask if I have openings, then your child can come for a daily drop in rate.

And getting paid any amount is ok with me to "stay home and play all day". I get to raise my own kids, dont have to worry about the slots in someone elses daycare. its wonderful! So yep, I can play, and get paid. I am sure if you really thought about it, you know that we do more then play, if not then I feel sorry for your child who goes to daycare and the provider plays all day! How do they survive? Eat? Learn? Get art projects bought and set up for them? Get diapers changed and potty trained?
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:39 AM
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60$ for an oil change? Sign me up! I can't do it for under $110.00. Myself in the driveway!

And much like childcare, I get what I pay for. I pay a premium price for a premium product. 10 qts of oil, plus a quality filter. Is the same as full time childcare. You pay for a full time position ( full oil change) you expect a full change. All 5 days ( all 10 quarts) including a filter.

You are expecting a full oil change, for the price of a filter spin and top off. ( taking up a full time position for a part time rate )

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I pay for the water I use. If I go on vacation for 2 weeks, my water bill is less. If I water my garden, my bill is more. It would be great if the water bill was a flat fee. Cable is a subscription, just like a magazine. Daycare isn't a subscription.

I do get the rotating thing. I could see paying the weekly rate for a rotating schedule, as long as my spot is available whenever I need it. I was referring to only needing a specific 3 days that are the same all the time. I don't see where I should have to pay for the other 2 days then.

I know the oil change is a flat rate. My point was that you would not like it if that flat rate was based on his hourly rate if you knew it only takes 20 min to do the job. ie. If he charges $60 an hour, you wouldn't want to pay $60 for an oil change when it only takes him 20 min. You would want to pay the $20 that it's worth.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:41 AM
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Ooo...Yeah. PLEASE do that.

I'd LOVE to be a federal employee.
Does that mean, full insurance including DENTAL?????? whoohoo!!
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  #77  
Old 10-27-2011, 11:44 AM
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Does that mean, full insurance including DENTAL?????? whoohoo!!
Sign me up!!!! I am excited for all the PAID Holidays!!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:52 AM
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Entertainment indeed! LOL I'd love to make $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids. LOL
Me too!! Sign me up!!!
However, between taxes, fees, food, supplies, repairs, office expenses, education expenses, insurance( health, property, life) , general household bills I wouldn't have if I didn't care for children, activies for the kids,
I make less than the typical minimum wage worker. But that's ok, I like my job. Love it actually. Its people like me, who care for children like yours, and enjoy our job enough to make it fun. A safe welcoming place for the families lucky enough to be here. I surely don't do it for the MONEY. Lol
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:57 AM
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If I was you I would charge just a WEEKLY FLAT RATE therefore no confusion you are giving up to much income by doing day rates.

My WEEKLY rate is
125 a week for ages 6 weeks til age 5 and in school I dont do school age.
Bingo!!! Have a policy book for the parents..........take Holidays and allow yourself 3 personal days a year......if you don't use them,that is ok, but do use the Holidays. Allow yourself to be paid no matter if the child is there or not on any given day, and set a time for your hours to be open and not so your killing yourself. Don't give discounts.......you don't give discounted care. If you choose to do drop in care, have a set rate for that per hour and only allow so many hours and if you have the availability. Don't do daily rate you will come to resent it.

hang in there, be strong and stand up for yourself, if you don't who will?
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:02 PM
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That is what I am trying to do but the parents don't want to have to pay that much if there child only ends up here some of the days. They feel they are paying for something they aren't getting but what they don't understand is they are paying for there childs spot. Parents just don't get it.
they will if you spell it out in black and white. I have so many spots and I charge for your child's spot no matter if they are in care or not.

full time rate
part time rate for me 3 days is a part time rate 4 days jumps to a full time rate ....if you did five half days you should charge a full time rate..... your filling a spot, your not going to find someone to fill in the other half of the day most likely.

you will learn as you go.......so update as you go. Be ready to lose clients, but childcare is ever evolving.... if your good you will have another client and maybe a waiting list

your not being unfair.......and are you working to be fair or is this your job?
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:02 PM
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I didn't read all of the posts but I have a good idea of how you feel.

I started out low balling competition when I started just to get people in the door and make some money. I just raised rates effective October 1st. It's equivalent to $1.00 per day.

A couple of my families weren't happy but they were seeing the big sticker price of $20.00 a month. When you break it down, it's $5.00 a week, $1.00 per day.

There is never an opportune time to raise rates but cheap doesn't stay cheap forever! Parents need to understand that.

If the going rate in your area is higher and centers are charging 25-50% more than you are, I think you are just fine in raising your rates.

Most people don't take a minute to realize that it costs money to keep your heat turned up all day or the amount of water you use to do dishes, cook and launder or the food you throw away.

If (and that's a big IF) you are willing to negotiate with family 1, offer then $25 per day for the 3 year old and an additional $20 for the 6 year old but that's as low as i would go.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:27 PM
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One thing came to mind reading a few of the posts here on this thread....

So many times we have been told to get a different job, to not bother with the childcare/daycare because we keep going back to the same convo of how we only make pennies per day compared to what everyone makes outside of daycare/childcare.

But if we all took this advice, how would any parent work? Without us providers, who will watch kids for the first 3-5 yrs of their life? Every mom (or dad) would have to stay home in EVERY family, unless you could afford a live in caregiver. Which I know many people can't.

I love my job too. It's hard, it's a challenge, theres a new thing I learn every day. I love it and wouldn't change it for the world. And I didn't start this just because I had kids and was at home. FTR. This was what I wanted to do, and finally decided I was going to do it.

If you consider what I save, with my 3 children, in daycare costs, And then factor that into my ridiculously low pay, I do pretty well for myself. I'm not rich, I struggle to pay my bills, I have debt, I have car payments, mortgage payments.

Its been said before, but the cost of childcare has not gone up, or down, in forever. Average cost per day for childcare 26 yrs ago? $25/day. Average cost for childcare per day now? $25/day. Why is it everyone else gets to get raises, and cost of living increases? Why isn't it the norm for Daycare rates to go up even $1/year? Because in a 100 years, the average rate of daycare per day would then be $125/day.

I wish people would give up on this garbage about complaining about daycare fees being too high. People are willing to dish out more money and not complain for Mcdonalds then they are for the person they are entrusting with their child. Someone who feeds them, loves them, reads to them, plays with them, and so on.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:51 PM
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Default Schedules that vary from week to week

It's really challenging to have to accommodate schedules for dcks who have different schedules from week to week. It's even worse to have families expecting that they can change the days and hours that their children attend without clearing it with the provider in advance.

I used to let families switch days around without advanced notice because if they paid for 3 days, then I had to give them 3 days of care, regardless of what days that they had signed on for. That can get complicated and stressful very quickly.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:26 PM
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I have heard several times at different times about childcare costing back in the 80's and 90's as it does now. Where does everyone live that it cost that much back then. When I first started out 16 years ago I charged $1.50 an hour and was considered average to high. 10 years ago raised it to 1.75 an hour as that was what our state would pay for state paid client. 6 years ago raised it to 2.25 and hour and was considered way high! My present day prices are more than that and averaging close to $25.00 a day and I'm still probably bringing home more than the average chidlcare because I'm charging hourly and have my clients 9-10 hours a day.

So to know that childcare was $25.00 a day 26 years ago when an average person making minimum wage probably only made $25.00 a day before taxes seems pretty extreme. Not saying it wasn't possible but if they are griping about paying it now I can't see them paying it then.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:53 PM
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Why should you get minimum wage from me when you also care for other kids?

Right, oil changes are charged by the job...my point was would you like it if they charged for a whole hour of work when it only takes them 20 min?
Ummm...the point is that you are not paying minimum wage...when you calculate it like someone did earlier, you realize that you are not paying even half of minimum wage per hour. Also, daycare providers are always limited to how many children they are allowed to watch, so it's not like they can see extra children to make up for you deducting two days from them.

Oil changes are charged what they are charged, same with daycare. And they do charge you the same regardless of how long it took them to change your oil.
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It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
Actually...you get charged by the hour when you get repairs done to your car. They always quote you their hourly "manual labor rate." Also, I would love it if I only had to pay rent and mortgage for the "days that I am using" the space. I don't watch my cable tv everyday but I sure do get that bill like I do. I just hired a telephone guy to fix my lines and I sure did get charged by the hour and not by how long it actually took.

In my area, if you go part time, you pay more per day than a full time person would pay. And as I stated in another post I come from both sides of the fence -- I had a childcare provider and now I am starting my own center. If you want to only pay for 3 days that's nice, but folks have ratios they have to keep to and that means that you are taking up a spot that a full time person could be using. I paid my daycare provider for 5 days every week even if she did not watch my child everyday because I paid for a spot. Now I understand why most folks do not even allow part time children in their daycare.

Here is the point. If you don't like it, go to another daycare. But arguing about rationalizations is about as productive as complaining about the rates that doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.

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Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book??
PS: Taking care of precious children, I think, ranks higher than buying a book...
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:59 PM
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do you really think that is what we do all day? Obviously until you walk a day in the life of a DCP you will learn that there is a heck of a lot more than PLAYING toys all day. every day I have a child in my hands I am risking everything I have. Because parents can blame me for any thing they want. I myself was sued by a family because their child tripped over their own two feet and chipped her two front teeth. It was my fault. She was under my care.... Now does that sound like fun to you??

BTW $15.00 was based off of an 8 hour day. Most kids are here for more than 8 hours, which means that I would actually make about $10.00 an hour or less...

if we took everything into consideration of what we have to do to complete a full day of care, I am sure that the hours would be more like 12+14 hours total....

Last edited by daycare; 10-27-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:02 PM
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Entertainment indeed! LOL I'd love to make $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids. LOL
That's hilarious. So would I, but I know it's not going to happen. Maybe you should read the thread that discusses what you are paying for when you send your child to daycare.

"Playing with kids" is not what providers do...
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:11 PM
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do you really think that is what we do all day? Obviously until you walk a day in the life of a DCP you will learn that there is a heck of a lot more than PLAYING toys all day. every day I have a child in my hands I am risking everything I have. Because parents can blame me for any thing they want. I myself was sued by a family because their child tripped over their own two feet and chipped her two front teeth. It was my fault. She was under my care.... Now does that sound like fun to you??

BTW $15.00 was based off of an 8 hour day. Most kids are here for more than 8 hours, which means that I would actually make about $10.00 an hour or less...

if we took everything into consideration of what we have to do to complete a full day of care, I am sure that the hours would be more like 12+14 hours total....
Maybe I'm a slowpoke, or maybe I just spend too much time on daycare stuff, but it seems to me I work more like 18 hours a day, not including weekends. I spend lots of my extra time, shopping (which we can't count towards daycare hours), planning, cleaning, organizing, paperwork, then on weekends I usually hit yard sales, and flea markets and auctions to get those awesome gotta have toys (especially love the ones that I played with as a kid!!!!!!!!) yeesh, maybe I need to learn to drop everything after daycare hours, because if I factored in all the extra hours doing daycare things, I would probably only be making .25 Cents per hour.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:22 PM
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Yes...where I'm from $15 is a lot of money and you'd need a college education to get it. A teacher in my state averages that. A teachers' aide gets under $8 an hour, unless she's a former teacher and then she might get $10 for experience. If you charged me minimum wage to watch my child, I wouldn't be bringing home enough to cover the gas to get to your house. This is why I wouldn't want to pay for days I don't use. I can't afford to. So yes, I'd LOVE to get $15 an hour to stay home and play with kids.
of course it has a lot to do with where you live. I live in the SF bay area. My home is less than 1600 sf and my house payment alone is about $3800.00 month. Wanna take about everything else. Like my $600 month electric bill and $450.00 month water bill. Oh yeah and lets talk about my car registration too because CA just got me on that one again. I have a 2009 suburban and its gonna cost me $632.00 to reg. it this year.

Lets talk gas, it about 3.90+ a gallon.... how does about 10-15 an hour sound now..
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  #90  
Old 10-27-2011, 02:26 PM
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Maybe I'm a slowpoke, or maybe I just spend too much time on daycare stuff, but it seems to me I work more like 18 hours a day, not including weekends. I spend lots of my extra time, shopping (which we can't count towards daycare hours), planning, cleaning, organizing, paperwork, then on weekends I usually hit yard sales, and flea markets and auctions to get those awesome gotta have toys (especially love the ones that I played with as a kid!!!!!!!!) yeesh, maybe I need to learn to drop everything after daycare hours, because if I factored in all the extra hours doing daycare things, I would probably only be making .25 Cents per hour.
oh do I hear ya on that one....last weekend I had a break down and my husband was floored to see my so upset.

he took me to the beach for the day and made me sign a document that said:

I will not plan for DC while out today
I will not shop for DC
I will not talk about DC
I will not respond to emails from parents about DC
I will not do anything that is DC related for the entire day.

I guess I didnt realize that I spend so much time always talking and doing things for the DC... Count me in on that $.25.....BUT you know what I love what I do..

I know that might sound like I am Contradicting myself here, but sometimes we get pushed to the edge. But most of the time I love my job.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:26 PM
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of course it has a lot to do with where you live. I live in the SF bay area. My home is less than 1600 sf and my house payment alone is about $3800.00 month. Wanna take about everything else. Like my $600 month electric bill and $450.00 month water bill. Oh yeah and lets talk about my car registration too because CA just got me on that one again. I have a 2009 suburban and its gonna cost me $632.00 to reg. it this year.

Lets talk gas, it about 3.90+ a gallon.... how does about 10-15 an hour sound now..
Amen!

I live in PA and I can tell you right now that $15 per hour would land me either out on the street or unable to put gas in my car or unable to pay my phone bill or....well..live.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:36 PM
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It's funny how such well trained individuals, who are so professional with your "clients", can have so much time to involve yourselves in a ridiculous online conversation that's really not going anywhere. You've exerted a lot of pent up energy that could have perhaps been better utilized for your business. Let's get back to work now, ladies.
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  #93  
Old 10-27-2011, 02:48 PM
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So the general verdict here is we are under paid for what we do and the time we put into this job.

So how did my day go.....
My 4th mom contacted me about the rates via showing up at my door unannounced. We sat down and we discussed the new rates. I stood firm and didn't back down, thought I had her won over and she then says that her schedule will be changing and she will need me wednesdays for 2 hours will she have to still pay the full $25 for that day? My response "yes" the hours she will need me in the middle of the day and every other week not to mention. She wasn't happy. Then she asks if she is sick and the baby stays home will she have to still pay the full $50 for the two scheduled days? I say "yes" that was kind of the ending point I told her go home think it over but I will expect an answer by december 1st that way if she leaves I can start looking during the month before the rate change.

I also heard from my sister that mom #4 talked to her (they work together) and she told her mom #2 that called me last night is not happy either. Mom #2 is my cousin mom #4 is with another one of my cousins. I know never do daycare for family. Boy am I learning this

I watched the 3 yr old girl whos mom txt me and boy at pick up outside wasn't the only place that was cold.

I have really been dwelling on what she said as far as she did babysitting and would have never thought to charge these rates. I thought of some stuff I would like to bring up at meeting with her and dad and wanted to run them by you guys.

1. $50 a day for two kids after deducting the lower tax amount of 20% leaves me $40 a day. She use to charge me $30 a day for 2 kids ( I won't bring up her old rate but just something I hope she thinks about) How is $10 more than what she use to charge outrageous.

2. $200 a week = $2.50 an hour per child for a 40 hr week, sometimes its more than 40 hrs.

3. $200 is $80 less then the average weekly charge for 2 children age 3 + 6.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:53 PM
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Daycare isn't a subscription.
It kind of is though. If you request a publication to be sent to you, and fail to read every article, you can't expect not to pay for part of it, right? If they could split up that publication into separate parts and sell your unwanted ones individually, then they would charge you according to use. It would likely be at a premium cost as well. If they find it hard to sell those bits and pieces to equal full subscription price they would just stop selling partials, right?

Some providers don't sell partial tuition, or partial subscriptions so to speak. The effort to do so isn't worth the hassle involved.
They will do what works most efficiently for their business.

Also remember, a provider has the right to seek maximum income for the hours she works, just as parents do. You have the option to leave one employer for another if they were unable to pay you as much as the other. Providers may choose the parent whose needs provides the most income.

Being said, I DO allow partial week tuition, but it rarely works out that I get full weeks covered by these clients. I take a loss each and every time.

Last edited by kimsdaycare; 10-27-2011 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Correcting my rambling thoughts...been a long day lol!
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:14 PM
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It's funny how such well trained individuals, who are so professional with your "clients", can have so much time to involve yourselves in a ridiculous online conversation that's really not going anywhere. You've exerted a lot of pent up energy that could have perhaps been better utilized for your business. Let's get back to work now, ladies.
It's called a break. I guess we're not entitled to that either right?
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  #96  
Old 10-27-2011, 05:26 PM
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It's called a break. I guess we're not entitled to that either right?


We are not entitled to do anything but smile and do as every parent wishes. We are their personal Genie. We all have breaks at different times of the day, and we occasionally have a day off here and there that we choose to spend on a daycare website. Who else loves their job this much that every chance they have they live and breath it?

i typed up a huge response but decided I better bite my tongue.

I agree with this though, I am so lucky i have such wonderful daycare parents, and I'm sorry so many of you on here have had the rotten apples.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:26 PM
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It's called a break. I guess we're not entitled to that either right?
lol...I just came back from a teacher conference for my HS student.

I told the teacher that I am sorry we are having to meet on these terms....Her response was:

Every time I have a parent that comes to me for a meeting and its about a negative situation, somehow it is always my fault............
I looked at her and said TRUST me, I know how you feel. I experience this every day first hand...

I told her it starts at birth and from the looks of it, it doesn't change.

People who have never done our job could never relate to what we do. So when the unregistered people come on here to poke at us, I laugh.
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  #98  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:10 PM
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From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
You pay for cable, even if you don't turn on the TV
If you put your child in an anctivity or a sport, you pay even if they miss practice
If you rent your home, you pay even if you travel and are only in it once a month
You pay your health club membership, even if you never go

I could go on...
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  #99  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
It's funny how such well trained individuals, who are so professional with your "clients", can have so much time to involve yourselves in a ridiculous online conversation that's really not going anywhere. You've exerted a lot of pent up energy that could have perhaps been better utilized for your business. Let's get back to work now, ladies.
Nope, we're just finding it hilarious that unregistered people feel like they should be taken seriously...

But on the other hand, I find it interesting that you clearly have nothing better to do with your time.

Hats off to the daycare providers who provide so much and sometimes receive so little of the respect and consideration along with professionalism that they so rightly deserve!
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:36 PM
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From the parent perspective, I get that you want to charge by the spot, but that "spot" I'm paying for had better darn well be available every single day if I want to use it for a few hours. It's not a matter of parents don't get it, it's a matter of I only want to pay for 3 days when that is what I need. I do not want to pay for 5 days when I'm not using all of them. I don't care if it's paying to save a spot or not.

Think of it this way...when you go buy a new book in your favorite series, would you like it if you had to buy the whole series just to get the new book? NO. It's a service, you say....well, say you take your car for an oil change that takes 20 mins, would you like the mechanic to say you have to pay for an hour of service because he only counts his "spots" by the hour, and not by what you actually need? NO Why is daycare the one place that thinks you need to pay for 5 days if you're only using 3 of them?
So...if you go on a two week vacation....do you call your landlord and tell him that as you're actually not going to be USING/NEEDING the home for two weeks...that he's only going to get half the rent that month?

Of course not. If you want the place held open for you, then you'd better pay the whole month's rent.

No different in child care.

And why would you expect a day care to keep a spot open for your child and yet not expect to pay for it?

I tell all my dcp's that they are , essentially, RENTING a place in my day care. Those places have a set price tag. Take it or leave it.

I personally find it insulting when parents think they can haggle the price of day care. If you are hiring a nanny, then talk about the wage.

But group day care has a price set by the provider. Parents have no business asking the provider to take money out of HER pocket to make life easier for THEM, which is what they are doing when asking for discounts.

I wonder how they would feel if their boss at work came to them and said;
"I expect you to do the same exact amount of work, but I want to pay you less for it because it will leave more cash in MY wallet"

Do you go to Walmart and tell the checker that even though the price on the jeans says $19.98... you only want to pay $16.98???? Sorry...set price unless Walmart OFFERS it to you on sale.

Why is it that parents want the best car they can afford, the best phone they can afford, the best laptop they can afford?

Why will they go deeply into debt to make sure they get the best TV on the market..


.....and then look for the cheapest possible day care solution?
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