How often do your dcps call you during the day "just to check up" on their child?

I pretty much expect parents who are new to daycare to call me at least once a day for the first couple of days, just to check up on things and make sure everything's all right. I don't really *like* it, exactly, but I expect it. I've never had a parent call past the first week unless there was something specific they were calling about--like a schedule change or something.

But the mom of my newest dcg (the 8 mo whose parents are, um, characters, anyway) calls me every single day, between 11:30 and 1:30, and this is the end of her fifth week in care. I'm starting to get really irked with it...partly because of mom's tone when she calls and the questions she asks. She always sounds so shocked and incredulous when I say that dcg is doing fine. She always then asks, "Really, she's ok? Like, she's active and everything?" and then after I answer that, she usually asks if dcg's congestion seems any better. Dcg had a cold three weeks ago that was completely gone two weeks ago...and she's NOT congested so wth?

Is this more common than I realize, and I've just never had a parent before who needs to call every single day to check up on their child, or is this unusual that they are still doing this over a month into care?

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I have never had a parent call for that long that I can think off. That is enough to drive you batty. Maybe sometimes when she calls you could be oops changing diapers or something.

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I've only had them call a couple of days the first week. I would be annoyed too. I don't have time to spend on the phone if there's nothing to talk about.

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Start letting the machine pick up. Wait longer and longer to call back. Or, just tell her, " I know it's hard to be away from her all day, but it feels like you don't trust me to keep her safe. I promise to call if she acts the least bit off and I ccan send you a text or call you thru the day if you want. But when the phone rings it wakes the babies.

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DCPs will call, like you said, in the first week at the MOST. That would bother me to be called so often. Have you told her that YOU will call HER if it was anything urgent?

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I have 2 families that call 3-4 times a day asking if I fed them and asking if they are wearing their jackets(in July) .I have had them since they were newborns and they are 1,2, and 3 now
It drives me crazy and I have told them that answering the phone all the time takes away from me being able to care for them. But they still call anyway.
Oh well, I just got used to it but I am tempted to say something like "no I haven't fed them ALL day cause all 12 parents call me 4 times a day and I don't have the time to feed them" but I could never do that

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No. I think maybe 2 parents called me the first day or 2 of care. I would tell them that texts work better. I love when parents text me.

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I let my answering machine pick up...it says

"Hi! If you are calling to check on your child, don't worry they are fine or I would be calling you! We are in the middle of a super fun activity and I cannot tear myself away long enough to have to answer the phone so I will see you at pick up time. Have a great day!"

If a parent is calling to tell me something (and not checking on their kid) they just leave the info they needed to say and that's it.

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Its really hard to leave your child in the care of another. Sometimes, congestion is worse all night. Offer mom a regular check in time and explain that it IS hard to handle phone calls, but since you have an open door policy, she is welcome to stop by and SEE if everything is going well. Encourage her to come on her lunch hour, and use the time to catch up on other chores This will ease her mind, and get across the time on the phone problem. She probably won't come.

Also if DCB's congestion is worse at night, work with mom to discover an allergy at home?

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I have one mom who has been here a year and she used to call daily. At the start I would answer, then after 2 weeks I just let it go to msg, I would then text her back and explain sorry we were in class or I was busy. It has now gone from daily calls to daily text. I even sometimes will take a pic and send it to her via text so she can see her daughter is ok.

I don't really mind it. I had a cousin who passed away at 3 days old and my aunts second born child, who is now 28 still checks on him daily.

I don't mind it at all..

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I ask parents if they prefer text or email and then I send them an update when their kid is new. If parents like it....I might send a funny story or picture of their kid.

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I've never had daily calls and very few new parents would call more than once or twice, if at all the first week.

I do ask the parents when they start if they would like email tidbits now and again... if they have email available to them they have all said YES! So with new kids I will send an email or two the first day or two... then every couple days... then I will save the emails for if something new or funny happens, if the child has been sick etc.

All of my parents can email me whenever they want... this really helps eliminate the phone ringing and waking sleeping babies or interrupting our activity

I would offer this parent email updates and/or put a message on your machine as suggested above.

The daily phone calls would drive me nuts!

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Okay, I'm really glad I'm not alone in being bugged by this.

Re: letting it go to message won't work...one day (one, in the past 5 weeks!) I was changing diapers when she called. 5 kids, 5 diapers....5 poops. It was a LONG round of diaper changes. I didn't want to stop what I was doing (it was pre-naptime) to go get the phone, so I left it. She called back a minute later, and a minute after that, and so on until I was done with the diapers ten minutes later. Yep, it was 10 or 11 phone calls! I was really short with her when I got on the phone with her...explained of course that I was changing diapers and she was all, "Oh, I wondered, I was about to leave work and come over there! I thought something was wrong!"

Texting doesn't work; I don't text Yep, a happy member of the Digital Generation (or...whatever they are calling folks my age these days) and a huge geek, but our cell phones are pay-by-the-minute and I really dislike texting. I'm so behind the times, lol.

Message on the machine/email updates are good ideas; I'll have to think about it over the weekend and decide which to offer. I'm trying REALLY hard to not actually say anything about the calls being unnecessary (and to cut it out) because I'm afraid it would come off as being very rude, no matter how I phrase it.

I get being worried about your child, I really do...but I dunno. It just rubs me the wrong way in this case. Something seems off about it I guess.

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okay now that is overboard and not ok. This mom has to trust you, if she doesnt then why do you have her child? RIght?
I would tell her that you want to offer the best care possible for every child in your care and that you have no porblem with her wanting to find out how her daughter is doing. Let her know how hard it is to take phone calls. Let her know tht you don't even take other personal calls because you need to care for the kids. I would then go on to tell her that if there is something wrong with her child that you would contact her right away. Let her know that you cant ignor the children to take her calls. everyone knows how kids act up as soon as the phone rings... DC is no different, except their are more children....

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That many calls would bother me - a lot. I would have to tell her that it was bothering our routine and that calls should really be saved for emergencies, change of plans/schedule, or the like. A phonecall a day even at 5 minutes a call takes 25 minutes a week awy from the kids. That's a lot of time to dedicate to reassuring an adult.

And I disagree with unregistered who suggested a daily check in time or visits. I allow parents to visit whenever they choose, but baby goes with mom when she leaves. That would be confusing and upsetting for the child. And that is who I am worried about.

We all make choices in life. This mom chooses to work outside the home. She chose daycare for her child. She needs to let her provider focus on her job (the kids) and have some trust. If she can't do that, she needs to figure out a way to stay home.

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Amen Jen!

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I have the check in the first few days parents, and then if their child had a rough night or something unusual is up they might check in and see how things are going. I send cute stories/pictures to all my parents maybe once a week.

I do have one mom who comes and plays on her lunch hour and I don't mind at all. I enjoy the converstation, and her son isn't upset when she leaves. I have an open door policy where parents can come and go as they please, so long as their kiddos are ok with it too.

I agree with pp's that it sounds like this dcm is having some trust issues. I would have an honest conversation with her about it, that must be frustrating on both ends!

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She sounds like a 'helicopter parent'. You know the type- micromanage your every move from afar. They are somewhat easy to tame, you just have to let them know they are 'special' and that their concerns are valid, but that they have found the right person to trust their child with.

To do that, you will need to have a talk with her. You might consider printing off a few 'daily notes' for her to fill out at drop off each day, until she's calmed down. These are half slips of paper that just have basics on them:

-Best phone number to contact her in case of concern or question
-amount of sleep last night
-amount of breakfast
-any concerns to look out for
-which concerns she would like a phone call about
-estimated pick up time

Notice that none of those suggestions allow for her to really control you, but rather give her a means to sort of 'cut the umbilical cord' temporarily. That way she feels like she has a voice but then it also might occur to her that you have it under control. Hope that makes sense.

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Aw, heck naw!!! 10 calls in 10 minutes??? Now that's just ridiculous STALKING!!! She would have gotten an ear full for that one!!! If she doesn't trust you to leave a message and get a phone call back later, than she needs to go elsewhere....shaking my head....

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The note thing is a great idea BUT it would have to be filled out BEFORE they came thru the door. If you have forms for the parent to fill out while you are standing a few feet from them they won't want to do the writing when they can just tell you what they want.

It's a great idea though.

I had a parent that wanted a daily report home. I told her I don't do daily reports but if she would be willing to create a checklist report form that I could fill out with checks I would be happy to do it.

Stuff like:

breakfast full____ half_____ quarter_____ none____
diaper changes 1____ 2____ 3______ 4_____ 5_____
bowel movements 1_____2_____3_____
mood: happy_____ sad______ mellow_____ fussy______

and so on......


Just create the form and make sure I can just do it by check and I can do it every day. Never heard back on that one.

I think the real issue here is that the parent is requiring conferences on a child who is doing well and doesn't have any medical concerns. By five weeks it's time to get in the groove of being one of many and not expect that level of one to one conferencing.

It's time to switch this communication to "in writing". Your idea is great or the idea of telling her that instead of daily phone calls you would like her to make a daily CHECK report form to go home that includes all the information she would like daily.

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Like you, I expect calls the first couple days. Longer if they are young parents, or if it's a baby or an only child. If it starts to last too long or is getting on my nerves, I just don't do as much talking. I let them ask their question, "How is my Darling doing?" My answer: "fine". (silent moment) They ask "Is she getting along with the other kids?" My answer: "yep". (silent moment) "Did she eat a good lunch?" My answer: "yep". (silence). In other words, I give one word answers and allow the awkward silence while they are waiting for you to elaborate, but you don't elaborate! Also, I let the phone ring more times before I pick up. And I'll sound a little out of breath like I was busy and had to rush across the room to get the phone. If they persist, I would start letting it go to voice mail, then text back instead of calling.

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I was intending to offer the mom a way to communicate to the provider in the am, not other way around, to keep the nonstop this-and-that concerns me questions to a minimum...but honestly, I think either one would be a jumping off point to the mom to start the talk.

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This is what goes home with my kiddos each day:



SANDEE’S DAILY REPORT

NAME_____________________________ DATE_____________________


Today I was: ( ) Happy Nap___________ to ______________
( ) Fussy
( ) Sleepy Nap___________ to ______________
( ) Other
( ) Clingy Nap ____________to_______________

Diaper/Potty Trips Meals and Snacks

________________Wet Ones __________________________
________________
________________BM __________________________
________________
__________________________

I had _____Wet Pull ups __________________________
I had _____Dirty Pull ups

Supplies Needed:

_______________________________________________________________


Under Diapers, I write in the time. Under Meals, I write in the time, list oz of bottle, food eaten, etc. Any extra info, I list on the space below Supplies needed.


Hope this Helps some. Ok, it won't line up right when I type it on here, put you get the idea. Two columns



Today I was Naps


Diaper/Potty Trips Meals


That is the way it should be.

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Oh don't get me wrong. I dig your idea.

Either way.. the big one for your idea is it is done BEFORE the parent walks in the door. I think it would be tough to find a parent who would hand write open ended question responses when they could just say words to you.

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But to quote the Nan, "Why let a parent give you words, when you can make it a policy in writing." Or some such....

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We had a parent who would call between 8 and 11 am every day (extremely busy time) and sometimes a second time. It was always the same question "Is J alright?"....if he cried at drop-off it would be "Is he still crying".

Eventually we told her that we were usually very busy taking care of her son and the other children during those times when she called, and that answering the phone took us away from them. We asked her if she was satisfied with the care her son was getting, and we promised to call her immediately if there ever was a problem. We send home a detailed daily report on all kids under 3 and the preschoolers get a weekly one...so she was getting that and she always spend several minutes talking with her son's teacher at pick-up.

So....we kind of asked her to stop calling without actually asking her. Her son has been with us for more than 2 years and is now 3.5 and if he whines at drop-off, she will still call

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I wrote a blog about this Silver. Thanks for the idea

https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/the-...-every-day.htm

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my first dck mom was like this. The child was 13 months. I sent home a detailed sheet every day of the food, schedule, diapers. She still called 2 and 3 times a day. It was so bad that if I didn't answer due to diaper changes etc she would call back several times until I picked up. She always seemed to call right during her nap time. She napped for 2 hours. So I never got a break because I had to be on the alert to her call. I never had anything to say except she is SLEEPING and fine. She seemed irritated about everything I did. I feel I went above and beyond in every way, including accomodating her schedule. But she never stopped calling even unto the last day. Because It was my first experience I didn't know any different. Then later I realized how rediculous it really was. I would never tolerate it again. I support the parent having access at any time if there is a concern, etc. But after things are settled and you are in a routine I don't see the need for several daily calls. Just my opinion.

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I guess that I'm in the minority here, but I have/had parents that call daily to check on their children, and I never mind that they do. They all understand that on occasion I can't pick-up the phone, and they either call back, or just leave a message. I had one family that the dad called daily on his lunch break every day for the 12 years that at least one of his children were with me. I currently have a mom of a 22mo that has called daily since day one.

The phone calls are quick - and I always make sure to relate a "precious moment" that involved their child that day. If it helps them get through their days at work away from their children to touch base and hear something funny or special that their child did, then it's not that much of an inconvenience for me. I feel it's one of the extras that I can offer my clients that make them feel better about their child being in my care. I look at it as just part of the "customer service" part of my job.

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I think your difference with the OP is that your parents are making the call quick, they are accepting that everything IS fine, and they are using a tone with you that is a sharing tone not a contentious tone.

The OP's situation is very differnt. This Mom isn't accepting that everything is going great. She's actually making up stuff and fixating on health issues that don't exist. She's upset when she hears the child is well.

See the difference?

The other thing is that you are able to come up with precious moments to share with them. You obviously have a way of describing the normal day to day life with their child in a way that they find endearing and special. That's a gift and not something everybody has.

Kids don't really change that much day to day. Sure there are milestone days when you see something new and special but communicating those without usetting the parent who missed them is kind of a tricky business.

It's a skill you get over time and not everybody has the art down to a science like you do.

If the OP's parent was able to do a quick call and be happy when she heard the words "she's doing great" without further disection and questioning I don't think the daily call would be so hard to manage.

Most parents want to know that you really enjoy their kid and that they are doing well. When you run into parents who won't accept that it makes for difficult communication in any form. That's really the heart of the OP's issue. The daily part of it makes it worse but if the parent behaved the way yours do she most likely wouldn't have even posted the thread.

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Wouldn't you love to be able to call her every hour on the hour to bother her at work? LOL


I would turn the ringer off and let the answering machine get it. Have your message say I am busy with the children at the moment, changing diapers, feeding them, reading to them, supervising their play, doing a project with them, cleaning up after a meal or snack, applying sunblock to the children, assisting the children to get ready to go outside, playing outside with the children, putting children down for naps, settling any children disputes, cleaning up spilled juice or milk, assisting a child in the bathroom, etc. make it a long message click that on and maybe she will get the hint that OH YOU DO WORK!!!
PS as soon as I have a moment I will return your call or as soon as I catch my breath I will return your call.

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i would have an honest "heart to heart" with her. i would tell her that her daily calls make you feel like she doesn't trust you, and that if anything at all was wrong that you would contact her.


she's probably having some guilt issues about leaving her child at daycare (not that she should, but some parents do) so she wants you to know that she really cares about her child by calling every day to check on her. if you give her another perspective like "it makes me feel like you don't trust me" maybe she'll realize her ritual isn't called for.

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HAHAHA! At my old center I had a mom call EVERY day the whole time her child was in my room (infant), I knew it was her because we had Caller ID and she would always says, "Hi! This is ____'s mommy!" Like I didn't know who she was. Then she had another baby and the calls started again..."Hi! This is ____'s and ____'s mommy!" She was so nice, but totally annoying at the same time.

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As I can see 10 calls in 10 minutes is a bit much, I think some of you forget you are watching these peoples most beloved thing in the whole world. First people complain if parents dont seem involved enough and then you complain if they want to know to much, if they want to make sure that their child is safe. Maybe she read about the fire in Texas, maybe she just really loves her kid and wants to make sure they are ok. Maybe she really doesnt trust you, either way no parent can win with some of you, too involved, not involved enough, make up your minds.

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Thank you, Nanny, you're absolutely right that it's the tone of mistrust that bugs me.

The first few weeks, I did do as you do Pammie, and offered up little tidbits --"Oh yes, she's having a blast playing on the floor with the other kids!" or whatever--but it didn't seem to make a smidgen of difference. I've progressed to the "short and sweet" or "short and slightly out of breath because I'm trying to get them all lunch before they eat me alive" stage, mainly because nothing I say or don't say seems to change anything...this is just my newest tactic.

It absolutely wouldn't bother me if she was content to hear that things are good, great even--and if she was content to let it go when I can't get to the phone right away (and if she didn't freak out on Thursdays when my DH answers the phone...which she knew from the start would happen). I also think that this parent issue would be fine if it was just this, but there are a bunch of other nutty/weird things these parents do and have done, that make it a very strained relationship in the first place, and make the phone calls that much more frustrating.

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Hmmm...do you have a digital camera?

Here is what I would do...what I do do for new families... Snap a couple of pictures of the baby happy and smiling and send it in a quick email that says something like..what a sweet happy baby! I just love having her here.

The next day, BEFORE she has the opportunity to call, send another quick email, just checking in, Baby is doing great!

3rd day, send a pic and a note...

Hopefully, your premptive communicatin will stop her from calling.

As she gets more comfortable, you can begin to decrease the emails. I still send out picts to the whole group on a bi-monthly basis.

Good luck! The calling would annoy me too.

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Well, if it really gets to that point where she calls and no answer, calls back, and jumps in her car to come see....and according to your rules, she has to take kid with her if she visits...

I'd let her panic, just once. Hate to say it, but that might work, as a last ditch effort.

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Hey unregistered -- remember that people generally only post about the extremes (over or under involved parents). No advice needed for perfect clients like I have. This is what it would look like:

I love ALL my daycare families. We have great communication and I love that they email me and text me 95% of the time. When I do get a phone call, my heart jumps into my throat bc I am scared that it is an emergency. Because when they call, it is VERY important. So, I hope I never get phone calls bc it usually means an accident, family emergency, or something else terrible.

My dc families are on time, pay without me asking, and are super nice people. They respect me, I respect them. I am very lucky to have each of them in my life. I love them all so much that I invite them all to my kids birthday parties. And if they can make it -- they come!! I work with like minded parents, which is why I have smooth sailing in my business.

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Don't feed the trolls!!

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All I am saying is that when I read the posts in this thread it seems everyone says nope no calls blah, blah, blah. But when a parent brings their child to go to a doctors appointment or do something besides work they are jumped on for being a neglectful parent, then at another turn if they call to check everyday they are overprotective and annoying. It seems like some of you are never happy no matter what kind of client you have. Texts, emails are great, the original person doesnt like to text so she needs to suck it up and answer her phone.

And really do you think it was great advice MissNikki to tell her to let a parent worry and drive over to her house, that is the worst advice I have seen on here. Let a parent worry that something happened to their children, yes that will get you far in this business.

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I know, but seriously its annoying to constantly hear "Everyone here is so negative, blah, blah, blah." Its just that people only post the highs and lows of the job. Know what I mean?

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I totally get it...it's weird how much people like to come here to start drama so that they can take it back to other boards and rip on the people here. It's really awfully funny that they don't have enough to talk about on their own board! LOL! I figure its best not to respond so they get bored and go away, but that's just my opinion!

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i see what you're saying - i've said the same thing in the past.

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I think that it's totally normal for parents to call when their kids start daycare initially, but there does come a time when the calls are really not needed any longer. I think that a dialogue at the end of the day or a daily report for those who like to do those is sufficient. I know that I don't always have time during the course of the day to take calls from parents who are calling to check up on their kids.

I'm not saying that parents should never call to check on their kids, I just think that daily phone calls to check in will be repetitive for both myself and the parent calling.

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Yes I do, and I have very little opinion of your opinion.

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Hmm...I think that you can always hope to find a happy medium

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To be fair I do not personally care what parents are doing while their child is here so long as I'm paid and the child is picked up on time (or with prior notice if they're going to be late). I have said several times on this thread that the calling wouldn't bug me if the parent's tone was less shocked and suspicious when I tell her that all is well. It's the tone and the nature of the calls that rubs me the wrong way.

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I was in the middle of changing diapers and then fixing lunch and in between those time she called 10 times every minute.When she finally didnt get a answer at all, she sent her husband to the childcare to make sure everything was alright. He said she was having a panic attack because she couldnt get through and this is after that child has been in me my care for 4 months now. This just make me want to refer her to someone else for the care of her child. There is just no trust.

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No you make it very clear that you are very busy with drops-offs, talking to the parents ect. and you will call her back at nap time period. Let her call 20 times, but she will wait till nap time for a return back call. (nice but firm) If she wants to leave work, let her.
I've done this and it works, often they don't like it because its their lunch hour or they're busy. Be firm and most likely she will stop, oh and continue to keep calling her if she doesn't answer, I'm serious!

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I've had both of my families since May and only one of the families called on the first day. And her kids had never been in daycare before, so I think that's why. Occasionally if the parents of that same family will be early to pick up, they call and let me know so I can start getting them ready.

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Good advice and I did this. This lady was still calling daily after a month, and I very nicely let her know I would call her back at my convenience each day, and if not would talk to her at pick up. Instead she kept calling, and I ignored her because we had a busy day ect. She ended up sending her husband over who got off work by 2:00 and he saw we were having fun and doing stencils. He made the comment his wife called multiple times, and I informed him she does this daily and either I'll call her back, or see her in a few hours to update her! (as I told her in the beginning)..Now dad was bummed because he had to take the child with him, minus his free time because of his neurotic wife. And I suspect she got a good lecture when she came home!

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It is absolutely ridiculous how you all think this way. And the first thing they tell you at day care is, "feel free to call any time" that's so mean of you all to be saying all of this. Parents can call until they feel their kids are ok. If it takes a year, do what it takes a year. Maybe you all's job is to make them feel as comfortable as possible and you're not doing your job, instead you're just pouting because they call.

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Oh snap this post is almost two years old. Haha!

In the two years of personal and professional growth since I first wrote this, I defend my position. This family turned out to be a poor, poor fit for me anyway...and I should have termed them the say day I wrote this. Should have termed them during their first week. Mom was never going to be happy with me.

There's call any time...and then there's call every time. The problem with this lady was that if babe was happy she would manufacture problems. Seriously.

Right now my dcm calls periodcially and I'm fine with it. usually she has a reason, like a babe on the edge of being sick or recovering or had a bad drop-off. But it's not every day. And she's relieved when I assure her that all is well.

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you know what?
first of all this is an old post.
second...we are busy taking care of a lot of kids.
I am not going to risk someone falling or getting hurt because a mom is calling all the time.
Unregistered... how many kids do you take care of?

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Wow. If someone wasn't comfortable with me either a.) right off the bat or b.) within a month then I would highly encourage them to find care elsewhere. If they didn't, I would assist them in that process because I couldn't handle a call every single day for a year. That is way too much!

If a parent is that concerned then they really ought to stay home with them or hire a nanny. Obviously they think the child isn't fine/isn't being taken care of properly and I would NEVER put my own child in a situation where I thought they weren't fine or being taken care of properly.

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I don't say 'call any time'. Its right in my contract that I am often busy with the children and will respond to calls and texts at my earliest convenience. I do try to go out of my way to text parents pics of their child for the first few weeks.

Its not my job to coddle parents, although I do try my best for them to be comfortable. It is my job to provide stellar care to their children. If I was on the phone daily with the parents of my 7 enrolled children then I would never get to start actually caring for the kids.

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I love this! Thank you BC

This is going to be my new voice mail message as of tomorrow!!!

I had one mom that called every single day!

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I have a facebook group for my parents...mi post pictures through that from my iPad and I also post videos of birthday parties, Easter egg hunts, water balloon fights etc via spree cast.. They can watch it live or after the event is over... My parents love love love both things

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It sounds like this mom needs a lot of reassurance. Can you email her mid-morning to let her know DCG is doing great? Maybe she'll back off if you take the initiative...

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My parents never call.... Ever.... Unless their kiddo is acting a little off etc.... I get one text saying they are on the way to care and one text saying they are on e way to pick up... And I require this so that my dogs aren't outside pottying when they drive up.... I have a private fb page that impost updates and pictures and videos etc on... And tag the parent...

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This is a really old thread, but this family was nuts. I ended up having LOTS of other trouble with them and they were gone within a month or two.

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WOW ^^^^ .....This is great I will be using this... LOL

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Just level with her..........Mom, I know your looking out for little one, but I don't always have the time to talk daily on the phone. Unless it is important information that I need to know, please wait for an update at the end of the day at pick up. If something comes up I will call you, at this point in our relationship you should feel comfortable enough with me and I with you that we don't need daily phone updates. I am just too busy with all the children to stop what I am doing to do this. I hope you understand. Talk to her and tell her that from now on the machine will be taking her calls and you WILL call her if something should come up and you need to speak with her. If she keeps calling you...... answer and be blunt. I don't have time to talk with you at this time in my busy day, I will talk with you at pick up. Don't allow her to push you around- Let her know you understand it is hard to leave your child. Even if your doing nothing at all- having a break is ok, because they are far and few between in this line of work unless you have help.

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Ignore my last post......old thread and I responded before reading to the end of the postings......again.

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