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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Illegal Home Daycares ... WWYD?
DBug 12:27 PM 09-28-2011
So here in Ontario, the limit for unlicensed home daycares is 5 kids (any age) in addition to your own. I have 3 of my own, so with everyone here I would have 8 kids total. If you're licensed, there are age-ratios to follow, but it's the same number over all -- 5 daycare kids at one time, with your own children under school-age being counted in the ratios.

Just in the last week I've heard of two home daycares that are way over their numbers, both in my neighbourhood. I know of at least one other in my area that is consistently over numbers too. Honestly, it makes me mad that while I'm doing my best to stay within numbers and turning people away constantly, that there are others that are more than willing to operate illegally to make a few extra bucks! And here's the thing: with daycare SO hard to find in our town, parents have very little choice in who they decide to go with. Parents could very well be knowingly putting their child in an illegal situation, simply because it's a sellers' market around here. Now, I haven't witnessed or heard of anything bad actually happening in these daycares, and in fact, they come highly recommended. The only issue is numbers.

So what would you do, or what have you done in this situation? Do you report it? Or do you leave well enough alone?
laundrymom 12:46 PM 09-28-2011
thats a tough one, I would enlist in your fellow legally operating providers to spread the word on the rules, encourage others to open up, and be as vocal as I could about the right ways to do something, I also think that should I "run into" the powers that be, I would make mention, but I wont go out of my way to find them.
gelbesonn 08:18 PM 09-28-2011
In my area you can make anonymous (or not if you want) reports to the licensing agency. If you have this option I would suggest reporting. They way I see it is, the ratios are made to protect the safety of the children in care. If someone is over their numbers, they could be endangering the safety of the children (especially in the case of an emergency situation- ie. the provider had to get all the kids out of the house quickly)
godiva83 08:47 AM 09-29-2011
I also live in Ontario and follow the DNA regulations of no more than 5 children not including your own as my ratios! They are there for a reason.
Also, just think if they are not following this rule and doing something that is considered to be illegal- what else are they willing to do?
I feel strongly about following the rules that have been put into place for children's safety and I would make a call to authorities.
Again, I just think if you are willing to break one rule, I am sure more are being broken also- just a gut feeling
godiva83 08:47 AM 09-29-2011
Sorry 'including' my own
countrymom 09:17 AM 09-29-2011
its all heresay, are they hurting the children, are you seeing neglect and how do you know that they are over. I have schoolagers that come here and they don't count, throw in my 4 kids and 5 daycare kids and you would think I'm over too but I'm not. Also, I have had it happen when there has been an emergency that I would take the child, usually for a few hours (they are regulars here)

for other people, the rule in ontario is that it has to be under 5 kids NOT including your own. And children over 10yrs old don't count in your numbers. THERE IS NO ONE TO CALL AND REPORT TO EXCEPT CAS, BUT YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR CALLING THEM.

I want to add, that don't worry about it, because I will guarentee the parents know this and they are fine with it. Don't get cas involved unless you have too, trust me. Its slow here too, and i mean slow, I know of one that has a filthy house, and over too, what she does is her buisness not mine, I run an honest business in a clean house.
Unregistered 09:19 AM 09-29-2011
I totally agree about keeping to the correct numbers, but can i just say that they may see you with 8 and think you are over in numbers? Do you know how many of the kids are theirs? I just wouldn't want to report someone without all the facts. If you know they are not their kids, then you can decide what course of action. Not trying to start something up here, just a thought........
Auntie 09:37 AM 09-29-2011
I wouldn't do anything. Do you know the coming and goings of the kids? The hours they are there? She could have one leaving an another dropping off still keeping within her ratio. Yes she is watching more than the said number but NOT at the same time.

If you saw abuse call and you know for a fact that she is taking in way more kids than allowed and you see a saftey issue then a call may be needed. I would make sure you know the facts I worry about what comes around goes around.
To be over numbers for 5 min between drop offs lets say is not a reason to call in my opinion.
cheerfuldom 09:52 AM 09-29-2011
If you know FOR SURE that a particular daycare is outside restrictions then yes, i would report.
godiva83 10:02 AM 09-29-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
If you know FOR SURE that a particular daycare is outside restrictions then yes, i would report.
I agree- you should no 100% if they are infact over ratio. You don't want to cause uncalled for troubles BUT if they are over, a rule is just that a rule and IMO should be reported
Maddy'sMommy 10:36 AM 09-29-2011
I live in Ontario also.

All the parents that I interviewed were really specific on making sure I was following the regulations. I actually had to explain that to them that because I wasn't licensed through an agency I didn't have to follow the age-ratios. I only have three full-time, but they are under 2 which wouldn't be allowed with a license.

I find there are a lot of home daycares in the west end of Ottawa. I don't think I have seen one over capacity.
DBug 11:02 AM 09-29-2011
Yes, I totally agree with what most of you are saying -- I would never report unless I had seen it with my own eyes. 2 of the 3 situations are heresy from parents that had their children in care there. One I witnessed and know exactly which kids belong to who, and know that numbers were way over.

I have also provided emergency care putting me temporarily over my numbers, but it is not something I plan on doing. Even with B&A's, I make sure to tell parents that I won't be able to take them on school breaks, P.D. days or over the summer.

I've been discussing this with another provider friend, and we're both conflicted as to what to do. As countrymom pointed out, really the only place to report them is to CAS, and I'm not sure that's really appropriate in this situation. Besides which, the CAS is so backed up investigating serious abuse situations, that reporting something like this to them may tie them up further and prevent kids in bad homes from getting the help they need.

Idk, but there must be something I can do, short of reporting them. We've just started up a providers' network for our town, so maybe we could use that to educate parents and providers somehow? If anyone has ideas, I'm all ears!!
cheerfuldom 11:18 AM 09-29-2011
Educate the parents as to their rights to report. I had one mom use a neighbor for daycare. They were licensed for 10, had 16 and were advertising for more!!! I told the parent (who wanted me to take her son but I was full) that she did have a right to report what she had seen, told her how to do it and left it at that. I was not going to report on heresay although I personally did believe this mom (her son came to me for dropoff care a few years ago and she has always been a very honest person to me)
Tags:complaint, illegal providers, ontario, safety issues
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